Doubling Our Chances?
Our very own efitness1 mentioned this yesterday, but Frank Isola is reporting that Donnie Walsh is considering a deal that would give Memphis David Lee and Malik Rose in exchange for Brian Cardinal (2 years, $13 million left) and the 5th pick. Isola supposes that this would be an attempt to cast a wider net, should O.J. Mayo fall past the very early lottery. Mayo, he thinks, might be one more piece to attract LeBron James in the future.
As for me? I can't support giving up David Lee, the one guy who's been most positive and encouraging throughout this whole mess. Not in this deal. Maybe not ever.
over 2 years ago
Seth
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Another caveat...
Rose’s deal is off the books after next season, so here’s how the trade breaks down in my eyes:
David Lee for 5th Pick
1 yr., 7.5 million for 2 yrs., 13 million
I’m not sold.
Posting and Toasting: Unabashed Knicks fanaticism with the occasional poop joke.
We don't need to be under the cap next year
We’re gearing towards cap flexibility in 2010-11, so saving $7.5 mil in a year isn’t going to mean much. I love David Lee. He’s damn exciting and lord knows he’s the only one trying out there, but personally I think the Knicks should pull the trigger on this one. In my mind, having two potentially franchise-changing picks instead of one outweighs the money issue and positives D. Lee brings to the team.
Seth, first going with Westbrook over Bayless and now this? I appreciate your passion, but don’t you think maybe you’re thinking with your heart more than your head?
Perhaps.
I see the logic in the trade. I guess part of it is that Lee has sat through a whole bunch of shit- the losing, inconsistent playing time- and has kept his head up and played solid ball. Maybe that’s not very business-like, but I do think he’s owed some loyalty and a chance to contribute to a team on the mend.
I also still think we haven’t seen him in his element, since he’s never been a consistent starter. I think his passing and scoring abilities might blossom in extended minutes. If there’s any way he’s expendable, it’s if we can plug a superior defender in his place.
I supposed I’d have to see who we’re looking at for those 5th and 6th picks. If it’s Mayo we’ve got in mind, I don’t see it.
Posting and Toasting: Unabashed Knicks fanaticism with the occasional poop joke.
hmm
i do love david lee’s attitude and as Seth knows I campaigned for him to be a starter all year long.. but the guy’s ceiling is 6th man, i don’t know if he has the athleticism to ever be more than an unselfish energy guy
by PPisthetruth34 on Jun 24, 2008 11:33 AM EDT reply actions
i would do that deal in a second
Lee is a fan-favorite, but let’s face it, there are a lot of players that can come in and do what he does.
the object is to get under the cap for 2010. if they add contracts for this season, it really doesn’t matter as long as they come off the books by that summer.
all of that being said, i have no idea what the knicks should do with those picks. i would say take bayless or mayo at #5 (should one of them fall) and westbrook at #6. if two of those three are gone by the time the knicks pick, then maybe westbrook at #5, and take a flier on gordon at #6? i’m going to have trouble sleeping tonight…
Ewing with the step...YES! and the foul!
by Anthony Masons Haircut on Jun 24, 2008 11:58 AM EDT reply actions
I would do this....
never. I’ll skip all the analysis and reasoning and keep it simple.
DON’T TRADE DAVID LEE!
Nope
I’m fine with trading David Lee since he’s a player that mostly relies on his athleticism and it doesn’t seem that he has yet, or will, fully recover from that ankle injury two years ago.
That said, getting the no. 5 pick for Lee is nice, but the hardest (and most important) thing for Walsh to do is find someone to take Z Randolph off our hands. Might as well save Lee for that task.
by Serious Garbage Time on Jun 24, 2008 2:28 PM EDT reply actions
urgh
As much as it pains me to say it, you’ve got to make this deal.
Cardinal’s contract means nothing to us. I LOVE David Lee with all of my heart, but he simply is not the same value as the number 5 pick.
I’m hearing we’d get Westbrook and Gallinari with those picks. I’m not sold on Gallinari, but this a trade you have to make. It makes me like nervous to think about losing Lee, but such is life…
-Riise (formerly b.schac)
well put
we have to bury our allegiances to the great David Lee and pull the trigger on this deal. it may not be the best move to trade arguably the team’s most popular player, but all i care about is the Knicks getting better.
Ewing with the step...YES! and the foul!
by Anthony Masons Haircut on Jun 24, 2008 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Alright.
I just took a shower and thought about it a little, and I think I’ve now overcome by fanatical bias. Since, as Starkstastic pointed out, money isn’t really a problem in this deal, I think the trade is fair. Two lottery picks in a talented draft class is a sweet deal that just can’t be turned down. If it were up to me, the two picks would be Bayless/Westbrook and Joe Alexander. Gallinari is unappealing and I think two guards might be overkill when we’re weak at the 3.
When Gallinari is getting burned every night and Lee is putting up 20 and 10 in Memphis, though, remember that I was the one who hesitated.
Posting and Toasting: Unabashed Knicks fanaticism with the occasional poop joke.
Hey...
...if Al Jefferson can do it…
Posting and Toasting: Unabashed Knicks fanaticism with the occasional poop joke.
We'll be fine with just the 6th pick
With Lee, you guys know that he’s a good player and he’s getting better. But we’re banking our future on TWO rookies and both of them are relatively young, so the bust potential is that much greater. We should be concentrated on getting rid of Randolph and Curry to free up minutes for Lee because he can be the perfect big man in D’Antoni’s system. Here’s what I think we could do:
Trade Zach Randolph to the Bucks for Michael Redd (with a few throw-ins here and there)
Release Stephon Marbury
Draft Joe Alexander
Do a lineup of:
PG: Crawford / Collins
SG: Redd / Robinson / Q
SF: Chandler / Balkman / Q
PF: Alexander / Jeffries
C: Lee / Curry / Morris
Have Curry as backup if we aren’t able to move him.
Now you guys may think that starting Lee at center and Crawford at point guard is silly, but that is something that could work in D’Antoni’s system. Crawford is a guy who can push the ball down the floor and hit the jumper, while Lee is a mobile big-man who can rebound as well as any center and play well both inside and outside. Our second unit is a good mix of offensive potency (Nate and Eddy) and defensive-mindedness (Mardy, Balk, JJ), and Q can come in for spot minutes because his time as a main guy is done IMO. And Redd is also a good fit for Mike because we need a consistent outside shooter which he is.
Randolph for Redd?
why not Curry for Dwight Howard as well?
Ewing with the step...YES! and the foul!
by Anthony Masons Haircut on Jun 25, 2008 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Q-Rich for LBJ
Not LeBron James…That’s Lyndon Baines Johnson. Come on, we’re getting a good deal here.
by Starkstastic on Jun 25, 2008 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
two things...
Randolph for Redd? That would absolutely never happen. Sorry, man.
Also, Lee isn’t the perfect big man for D’Antoni’s system. Yeah, he can run the floor and finish but he has no jumper. Mike likes big men who can score from all over (Amare, Boris) and who can pass. At the moment, Lee has neither of those things.
If he develops those things…well then he’s an extremely valuable player and should not be traded…
DO IT
imo, u gotta do it. Like someone above mentioned, his ceiling is 6th man extraordinaire. His scoring is efficient because he knows his limits, and doesn’t take shots that are difficult for him, not because he’s some offensive machine. And i don’t think anyone mentioned it, so i’ll say what some people, mostly SML, have been saying for years:
as good as Lee is, he’s coming back from injury, his trade value on the knicks is only going down, and…he sucks at D. (keep in mind it doesnt SEEM like he sucks, because he plays with the bad at D allstars in Crawford, curry, and Zbo).
at this point, the knicks arent going to be good for a bit, so why not stockpile picks ala Seattle, and gamble it out on the draft? and if you get mayo or whoever they want most with the 5th pick, you can always try to move one of our bad contracts with the 6th pick and renaldo or some shit too.
waaaay 2 serious about the yanks and knicks? maybe... oh well
by Prezs2ReprsntMe on Jun 24, 2008 10:20 PM EDT reply actions
I agree with Prez on this one...
... if you look at how the Sonics are doing it (they might end up with Durant, Green and Beasley as their core by Friday morning), and how the Blazers are doing it (yes, the number one pick in Oden was fortuitous, but Brandon Roy and LaMarcus Aldridge are the backbone of that team), they did it by putting together three young players in the top-10 of two drafts. That immediately gives you a core of young player to build around. Then you get the role players (which the Knicks already have plenty of), and you have yourself a contender.
Two top-6 picks this year, plus another one next year (presuming the Knicks suck again, not an impossibility) would be proper rebuilding. The Knicks don’t have their pick in 2010 (the Jazz do), but by then they would have the core, plus they would be on their way to salary cap freedom.
True rebuilding, if that’s the route you want the Knicks to go, requires a three year plan of building a core that can take you to the playoffs, and another two years to turn into contenders. The Knicks, you have to assume, are in year 1 of Walsh’s long term plan.
Truth is, I don’t believe the Grizzlies pull the trigger on this proposed deal. It’s a no-brainer for the Knicks, but why would the Grizzlies trade the #5 pick just to save $6 million next year, and David Lee? They already got under the cap with the Gasol trade. David Lee is a good piece, but is he better than what the Grizzlies can get at #5 – assuming top-4 is static (Rose, Mayo, Beasley, Bayless), then we’re talking Kevin Love, Joe Alexander, Eric Gordon, Russell Westbrook?!? Aren’t they all better right now, with more potential upside, than David Lee?
by stopmikelupica on Jun 24, 2008 10:40 PM EDT reply actions
also
if no one else mentioned,
alexander = more athletic D Lee, with better everything…except of course the undeniable D Lee Charisma, but come on…
waaaay 2 serious about the yanks and knicks? maybe... oh well
by Prezs2ReprsntMe on Jun 24, 2008 10:45 PM EDT reply actions











