Jennings and Rubio
by beelove on Nov 16, 2009 12:15 PM EST
48 comments
Editor's Note: I've seen this mentioned a couple times around P&T. Even Alan Hahn has mentioned a Rubio deal of late. What do we think of this?
I'm not too smart. Every time a ball sails out of bounds, or a lay-up is mixed in slapstick fashion, I put my head in my hands and mutter "at least we'll get a top 3 pick." Then it hits me and I look up at the heavens and and lament biblical like. It pains me ten times worse than the missed lay-up.
Maybe I"ll never get it through my thick skull that all this losing is for naught. In any case, I have to hope -- Obama taught me that. Then I think of Brandon Jennings and his Italy stats and then I think of Rubio and his Barcelona stats and I say Maybe this kid is as good as I thought during the Olympics. If we can't get a top rookie by drafting him, maybe we can get a top rookie by trading for his rights after a lackluster season overseas. His value might drop, the knicks can afford a buy-out, we can offer Minny -- well, I don't know -- something.
Thoughts? Anyone watching Rubio? Can someone remind me how a buy-out from a Euro team counts against salary cap etc? We need something to talk about . . .
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Fired
1st time poster: It amazes me that in the NBA a player cannot get fired for doing a horrible job. In the normal world, if you suck you get fired. What happened to my defensive minded NY Knicks? Maybe Europe needs an out of shape center in exchange for Ricky Rubio.
by Sempai G on Nov 16, 2009 1:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
let's offer kahn an undersized guard
you can apparently never be too deep at the guard position. the man won’t be able to control himself.
by tak4prez on Nov 16, 2009 1:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Minny could actually use Duhon
Some experience and defense to help bring Flynn along.
Duhon was a good role player, one that could help many teams — that is, if we haven’t ruined him psychologically by asking him to be what he’s not: a #1 PG, a leader, a face of the fanchise.
Give em Larry Hughes too.
by beelove on Nov 16, 2009 3:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You are so fooling yourself
if you take that seriously.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
by feral on Nov 17, 2009 6:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
buyouts
i’m pretty sure nba teams can only contribute up to 500k towards a buyout, so the fact that we can afford to pay it all doesn’t really help us. i also remember that when he signed this most recent deal with his current squad the buyout that was mentioned was in 2012 (or 2011?) so i dont know how that would actually work if we actually could trade for him.
by ibnyc on Nov 16, 2009 1:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
it was a 2 year wait
until the buyout.
so it would be the summer of 2011 we would be able to get him.
I still hold out hope.
by gbaked on Nov 16, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sponsors pay for the buy-out
Kahn worked it so the Minny private sector was going to fund the buy-out, so the team stays within (stupid) NBA rules limiting a team to $500K. Plenty of companies would come to the Knicks aid to land a high-profile, photogenic, spanish speaking international superstar.
The 2 year wait is all talk — about tender young Rubio feeling more comfortable in his native clime and all that. But the kid yet to be paid — he’s more or less been exploited so far, and given his celebrity is making chump change.
Money talks, and NY money speaks with a golden mouth.
by beelove on Nov 16, 2009 3:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The 2-year wait isn't "all talk"
The amount of the buyout is prohibitive, but it falls in two years to a point where he essentially can consider it a ‘player option’ at that point. Until then it’s danged hard for any NBA suitor; the terms for the next 24 months or so are worse than the ones the T’Wolves were dealing with, and the team isn’t financially strapped so they’re not under pressure to accept deals. The obstacles are significantly higher for the time being.
Nor is the kid “yet to be paid.” His Barca contract is giving him significantly more than the previous one.
Really the medium-term money consideration for Rubio comes down to the NBA’s rookie scale and its window, and has to do with the next contract down the pike. Whenever he kicks off the scale contracts, he’s looking to that next deal for the big money.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
by feral on Nov 17, 2009 6:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ur rite
as of now we could trade 4 his rights but wouldn’t hav him for a while due to his current euro contract. That 500 k number is right also so if we wanted him bad enuff we’d hav to reach and provide whateva euro league team he’s on some sort of non monetary compensation…..Has Duhon ever been to Europe??? I hear it’s nice.
What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!
by Lord Smackington on Nov 16, 2009 8:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
rubio is a bum
the kid played in a system suited for him. jennings torched him said he was garbage. the nba wants to keep the color from going to dark so the push a kid like rubio as a player. why do you think he didnt sign because he knew that he would get exposed in the nba. jennings was the real deal in high school and everyone knew it. the ncaa pimps dont want anymore lebrons, kobies, howards going str8 to the pros before they make their money off them for free. its sickening how the nba & ncaa have joined forces to pimp these young men. as for rubio knicks would be better served to get a player in the draft and not just any vanilla ice…..
by brooklyns finest on Nov 16, 2009 4:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
jennings never torched him. they played once and rubios shooting wrist was in a cast. i remember reading that rubio repeatedly blew by him and assisted.
and don’t forget how ill he was against the US team in the gold medal game.
but i agree that its disgusting how the NCAA and NBA have all these agreements, players should start going overseas just to fuck with the system.
by thePharcyde on Nov 16, 2009 7:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They basically came to a draw
In their one matchup, both players did all right. You can find youtube clips of him driving and dishing against Jennings’ frenetic defense.
Rubio was indeed in a cast at the time.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
by feral on Nov 17, 2009 6:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There is so much wrong with this post I don’t even know where to begin.
White players with skills are typically hyped up, but in the cases of European kids like Rubio and our very own Gallo its balanced out by Europhobia that assumes all Europeans are soft jumpshooters that don’t play D
by Nolan B on Nov 16, 2009 10:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Which is exactly the opposite of the truth
Rubio, meanwhile, is a defensive player of the year who can’t shoot the J. You’d think people would notice these little things…. ;-)
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
by feral on Nov 17, 2009 6:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just to set y'all straight
The deal to bring Rubio to Minnesota this year included Rubio paying off his buyout with his rookie scale pay as well as a percentage of his endorsement income. Under that deal, he wouldn’t have seen any real money until after his rookie deal was up. Minnesota and Rubio just couldn’t bargain DK Joventut down any further off the enormous buyout, especially with the Barcelona deal out there.
The reason he stayed in Spain (signing with Barcelona) is that Barcelona paid his DK Joventut buyout, plus he will get paid pretty well for the next two years, then be able to afford a reasonable buyout and go to the NBA then. To come to the NBA this year would have been a huge financial risk for an athlete to take. It wasn’t because he was scared – it wasn’t because he didn’t want to play for Minnesota. It was the only financially responsible decision for his family.
No one knows whether Rubio will be a great NBA player or not. I tend to think he’s going to be pretty good – but with the way Jennings is playing, it lends creedence to his harsher assessment of Rubio’s skills. I think it was just competitiveness with a guy that was getting more hype than he was.
It seems that the Euro leagues don’t tend to create monster statistics for their players. Jennings is a good case in point. But from what I’ve heard, Rubio played well both offensively and defensively in the Euro championships.
I’d take a chance on Rubio, but I think the price is going to be high as Minnesota is not desperate to unload his rights yet – nor are they sure Jonny Flynn is the answer at point guard. I don’t think a Rubio trade is a serious possibility yet.
by fuhry on Nov 16, 2009 4:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Agree on the assesment
I think Rubio will be good personally , just not right off the bat. He’ll need time. I really didnt think he should have went b4 alot of picks and should have dropped simply for not showing at the combine and working out with other rookies. But at this point If we could land him, I’d say do it and do it NOW!!! Get him, play him and let him develop. I would make it mandatory Duhon goes as part of the package and would throw in ANYONE EXCEPT GALLO to make it happen…ANYONE.
I’m sick of this losing shit, at least give me hope.
What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!
by Lord Smackington on Nov 16, 2009 8:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Right on the money on every point
Except maybe Jennings leading to a harsher assessment of Rubio. Their only real connection is Brandon talking trash, and I don’t think that means anything. LeBron and Kobe both praised him, doesn’t mean he’s going to the Hall Of Fame though.
by museum on Nov 17, 2009 2:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It seems that the Euro leagues don’t tend to create monster statistics for their players.
What I would say is that European leagues are different enough that one is dealing with something analogous to a Japanese baseball pitcher. Coaches over there have very different assumptions about how to play their point guards — just as Japanese managers use starting pitchers in quite different ways from their US counterparts.
(Also, European league scorers just don’t assign assists as much, period. Look in any league over there.)
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
by feral on Nov 17, 2009 6:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
jennings and rubio
i think we need to take this to msg right in front of the building with signs that say rubio…idc what anyone says i’ll put all my eggs in one basket with rubio, when the knics picked gallinari no one thought he would be that good but i felt that he would be what he is becoming im just saying that rubio may have been beat by jennings but we only play him twice lol rubio would transform this pg run team
by IB on Nov 16, 2009 6:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
actually
i heard minnesota would trade him for the right price because of how good flynn is and because they dont believe rubio would fit the system rambis has installed
by IB on Nov 16, 2009 6:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
too bad they have love and jefferson
or we’d be able to trade lee and chandler, so something like that. and Hill.
by thePharcyde on Nov 16, 2009 7:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
y not
they dont have a back up forward or a starting good sf i think we kould be in the running just because of this, corey brewer is terrible and chandler would provide stability at sf because thats the position he excels at. i say give them nate, lee, chandler, curry and duhon or al harrington and a future conditional 1st rounder
by IB on Nov 16, 2009 10:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The "right price"
Doesn’t include anything the Knicks have. Next question.
"It has come to the editor’s attention that the Herald-Leader neglected to cover the civil rights movement. We regret the omission."
by feral on Nov 17, 2009 6:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You're Crazy
if you don’t think Rubio is going to be a good player. Guy already led a team of grown-ass men to the Euro-championship, but I don’t even need that as evidence. For some guys, all you need to watch them for is 10 minutes to see that they can ball and Rubio is most definitely one of those guys. You can’t teach court vision like he has and that alone will make him a player in the league. I don’t want to make comparisons because I think he’s a unique talent, but I think his court awareness is on-par with Nash/Kidd/Stockton. He’s gonna be a star.
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Nov 16, 2009 7:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Jennings playing now: link
Vs. Dallas
find the game on this screen. http://atdhe.net/
by beelove on Nov 16, 2009 8:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
impressive
Dallas double-teaming him, even at the three point line. At first he forced some bad shots, but he’s now finding open cutters. Amazing how quickly he adapted. Also makes quick decisions — really starting to handle a dallas d which is clearly keyed around him.
He won’t have 55, but he’s keeping the bucks close and his 2nd half will be better than his first now that he knows what to expect
by beelove on Nov 16, 2009 8:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Rubio's been good.
I’ve actually been able to watch like 5 rubio games live this year on espn360. The kid can ball and he’s the ideal point guard for a system like this. Jennings is not a good fit for the European motion, free flowing offenses which is the main reason he wasn’t drafted by the Knicks. He’s a point guard that is a perfect fit for a halfcourt structured system (as we are seeing this season under dictator Skiles).
Back to Rubio. The kid can ball and his vision, creativity and ball handling are the most advanced for a point guard his age I have ever seen. I’m not sure if we have any pieces that Minnesota would be interested in to deal, but I think we need to force the issue and make a serious play for him.
by aramnath on Nov 16, 2009 9:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
i agree 100%, id give half this team to them
by IB on Nov 16, 2009 10:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And we wouldn't take it
Sorry. You guys just don’t have the pieces. Maybe you will in a year or two. Gallinari is coming along nicely, but he’s not blowing minds I don’t think. I think the first choice right now is to keep Rubio. That’s only after three weeks, but even though Flynn has been good, he hasn’t shown signs of being transcendent. But it’s early. Rubio won’t be here for another two years, so who knows where we’ll be then. I will say though, nobody here really buys into the “you have to be in NYC to make money” thing. There’s a lot of evidence to the contrary, and you can bet David Kahn is in Ricky’s ear with it. Not necessarily that he doesn’t have to be in NYC, but that he can be anywhere, including MPLS.
And did somebody say we could use Duhon? Please remember that we are not your dumpster. Don’t litter.
by museum on Nov 17, 2009 2:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
lol another minnesota fan
I’m not even in minnesota and I read more about what your team wants to do, lol for 1 rubio has a clause that allows him to come over next year if he wanted to but the plan is for him to stay til 2011 year, that was set by your gm which I see as an indication of player and gm confrontation in early stages…
by IB on Nov 17, 2009 5:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and by all accounts, Kahn is still in close contact with Rubio and gets along quite well with both him and his family.
by museum on Nov 17, 2009 1:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
IDK
I hate to agree, most of our roster is filler right now but…If you don’t think Gallinari is not that dude, you have not seen him play. He is a winner and a keeper
What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!
by Lord Smackington on Nov 17, 2009 1:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve seen Gallinari play and I like him. I’m just saying I wouldn’t do that deal right now. In the future, maybe so, who can say? But I feel like I’d want more than a pure shooter for a potentially great PG.
by museum on Nov 17, 2009 1:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can understand that...
mostly cuz I don’t think NY would deal Gallinari for Rubes straight up either. I think they’re that high on Gallo. Gallinari has already proved he can play multiple positions on the floor and has tons of room to grow. Should he get stronger and put on some muscle he’d be a mismatch nightmare. As for Rubio, he’ll be good, maybe great but I don’t know if he’ll play for you guys. That’s not a bad thing though cuz u guys got loads of talent at the position.
What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!
by Lord Smackington on Nov 17, 2009 9:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
actually
In many interviews rubio has stated that he’d rather play for a california team or new york, and his agent represents yi jianlin who by the way minnesota fans, forced his way out of milwaukee, the only team he doesn’t want to play for is memphis, and he has stated he would love to play for dantoni as that is his prefered style because of the systems similarity to the european style of basketball
by IB on Nov 18, 2009 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Every player in the NBA would prefer a California team or NYC to virtually every other city in the league. Everyone would love to play for D’Antoni. So what? We still manage to fill a roster every year, and most everyone ends up loving it here. We pretty much had to throw KG out on his ass. And what was the first thing he said after winning the title? “This goes out to everyone in ’Sota.” And as you said, the only team Ricky has said he doesn’t want to play for is Memphis. A professional athlete preferring California to Minnesota before coming here means absolutely nothing.
by museum on Nov 19, 2009 2:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rubio would be great in this team
He wouldn’t dominate straight off the bat like Jennings because in the NBA elite athlete guards can instantly compete and Jenning’s speed is incredible, but Rubio would be a beast on the fastbreak. He’s basically a less athletic Jason Kidd right now and just shooting can improve.
by Nolan B on Nov 16, 2009 11:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Current stats here:
http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=LFW
by NYK on Nov 16, 2009 11:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Rubio
I watched Ricky since he was in the Spanish League at age 17…when I first saw him, I swore the Knicks would come along and take him to the U.S.A….(well a guy can dream!)
Before this year’s draft I was raving about him to anyone who would listen. He is kickin’ butt in Spain now, and it may be difficult to lure him away just yet. He is quite a celebrity now at home, and will wait for the right paycheck to arrive. The Knicks blew this one if they had a chance to sign him and did not.
by whatknix13 on Nov 17, 2009 2:18 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Keep dreaming...
Why are we even talking about Rubio? Knicks made a huge mistake passing on Jennings (who will probably be way better a player than Rubio will ever be in the NBA). How come no one saw this coming? Don’t these guys get paid for a living to know this stuff? All those so called experts at ESPN got it wrong and all you Rubio fan boys bought into their crap.
by mightykingcrayon on Nov 17, 2009 4:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
what exactly makes you guys wet your pants over jennings?
55 points omg how unbelievably original.
all i can say is that while great players have scored 50 alot of not so great players have scored 50 case in point i still remember people going apeshit over charlie villanueva a couple seasons ago and our very own crawford. he hit the 50 point mark. right now you guys are all gassed up on jennings. wait till he starts seeing a consistent double team then come talk to me about how great he is.
secondly the intangibles nonsense is something i dont care to support. i believe intangibles just cant outweigh talent but when it comes to a leader they do. the point guard is the one position that dictates how his team will play. that is why when i hear that rubio has agility, a pass happy mentality and a defensive pulse i do wet my pants.
but…2 years is a long time. rly rly rly long. i may be wrong but im sure that in the next 2 years there will be some type of point guard that will be in the draft or a free agent (cp3) that will have just as much potential as rubio.
by karamjitm9090 on Nov 17, 2009 9:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Its time to forget about Ricky Rubio
The moment he signed a contract with Barcelona was the moment all coversations of the Knicks obtaining him should have ceased. He won’t be coming to the NBA for 3 years, even if his contract will allow him to opt out after next year. There is too much money on the table that he would forfeit. He likes NY, yes, but if he comes in 2 years, he will be on his rookie contract. Wait another year as it expires, and he is a simple free agent. Minnesota gambled and lost. Rubio said early on, he wanted a big market. Minnesota should have moved him on draft night when his stock was highest, or not drafted him at all. Rubio has been blaming this on money, but the other part of it is he doesn’t want to play in a cold, small market. Even moreso, his fate was sealed the moment they drafted a 2nd starting PG. Now…Minnesota is in a corner and there is just no way they trade his rights without getting a huge heap in return.
I would do the same thing. He spurns my team, well, then stay overseas and earn less money and play against lesser talent. Kahn wont admit how pissed he is (and he should be though he knew what he was taking on) but you sure as hell can be that he will do everything he can to delay Rubio’s NBA debut. Minnesota screwed Rubio by drafting him, Rubio screwed Minnesota right back, and now Minnesota will hold his rights until the last moment to re-screw him.
by Chris Child's Fist on Nov 18, 2009 12:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Minnesota doesn't lose him after 3 years
Completely untrue. We have his rights for good now that he didn’t sit out this year.
Also, Kahn was pretty aware that he wasn’t coming this year when he drafted him. There’s a bunch of documentary footage of draft day that got released not too long ago. This isn’t to say he’s coming and he’ll be the Spanish Kirby Puckett, but it’s certainly not out of the question. If we don’t trade him, he doesn’t have a choice if he wants to play in the NBA.
by museum on Nov 19, 2009 2:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And “he didn’t sit out this year” means he’s playing professionally in Spain. The only way for him to get out of Minnesota holding his rights is if he sat out all year, not playing professionally anywhere in the world, and then entered the draft again next year. But he can’t become a free agent.
by museum on Nov 19, 2009 2:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
sounds about right
and despite the kids obvious talents I don’t think any GM would give up quality players without having seen him play a few solid minutes against NBA talent. This was bound to end in a stalemate since his name was announced in the draft.
What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!
by Lord Smackington on Nov 18, 2009 4:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
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