On the Outside, Looking In
by Seth on Dec 9, 2009 12:12 PM EST
in News
72 comments
I may or may not be quoting Staind in the headline, but the fact of the matter is that the Knicks have strung together a nice stretch of wins with Eddy Curry and Nate Robinson on the sideline. The Nate-less and Curry-less success has made for some mixed feelings in two of the longest tenured Knicks.
Nate Robinson, as we know, has been a regular DNP-CD for over a week now. The benching certainly stings, but as Marc Berman reports, Nate is doing his best to swallow his pride and work his way back.
Privately, Robinson feels D'Antoni treats him with a double standard and gets punished for transgressions teammates get away with. Because Robinson signed a one-year, $4 million contract days before training camp, he can't be traded until Dec. 15 and needs to approve any trade.
Since the benching, Robinson's pre-game preparation has been ultra serious. He's on the court 90 minutes before tipoff, usually performing a series of intense shooting drills with assistant coach Kenny Atkinson. It's all business.
Again, Nate has every right to be hurt, but it's an excellent sign to see that he's taking the demotion in stride. Robinson isn't a kid in this league anymore, and the fact that the Knicks are thriving without him seems to have affected his habits. Personally, I'm not dead-set on using Nate's expiring deal as a trade asset just yet. We've long considered him to be one of the most talented Knicks, and it might be worthwhile to let this benching play out and see if he can't earn his spot back and turn over a new leaf on the court.
In a similar vein, a Knick with different issues and a very much opposite personality from Nate's is Eddy Curry. Curry made a spirited, if not entirely compelling, comeback from injury several weeks ago. His appearance was short-lived, though, and he's been rehabbing his sore legs while the Knicks have been winning. Eddy's just about healthy enough to return (again (again)), but worries about messing with a good thing. From a separate Berman article:
"I want to try to blend in and not mess them up," Curry said after the Knicks' fourth win in five games Monday night over Portland. "They're really rolling right now. I don't want to be the reason we lose the game. It's going to be touchy for me. I trust Coach puts me in there when he feels I'm ready."
That kind of self-consciousness doesn't exactly scream "dominant big man", but we've long known that Eddy's not a brute or an egomaniac. In fact, he's got a very lucid idea of where he stands:
"Trade bait?" Curry asked. "I'm going to relish any moment I can to play. Whether playing me to trade me, or playing me because they want to win games, it doesn't matter to me. I just want to get out there. Although I don't want to be traded."
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amen
it should be noted that duhon has still had bad games during this surge
the difference is huge though
duhon is playing poor because he is just an average basketball player.
Nate is playing poor because he has an attitude problem.
You cant teach talent. You cant motivate someone to be more talented. Attitude however, is something that can be changed.
ok
slightly above-average.
duhon, having his best year will be a borderline allstar.
nate, having his best year could (COULD) be a 1st team NBA kinda player.
i agree with your logic
but i think you are over estimating both players.
twitter.com/aighttho
http://howmuchyouthink.tumblr.com/
by stingy d on Dec 9, 2009 1:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
could be
idk, nate has the very unique ability to take over a game.
there were flashes of it last year.
I dont think he ever lives up to it, but the ability is there.
I don't think n8 will evr be gr8
but I think he’s a good player now that could be a very good player down the line if he works at it and his head gets right…pause
Duhon….aww Duhon, he has some talent though I hate to say it…EXCELLENT court vision very good basketball IQ, but I don’t think he has the skills or athleticism to make those things become threats on a nightly basis.
I can’t disagree and say he’s not above avg when he’s assertive, but I also can’t disagree or argue with someone who says he’s avg at best.
It might just be me but I feel the best place for him would be a very good team needing a sixth man when their main guy is hurt or needs a breather. Someone who can come in, manage the game defer to the second star on the team to get them easy baskets and not mess up.
What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!
by Lord Smackington on Dec 10, 2009 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
whoa
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Dec 9, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with your logic too
as much as I love nate, and as much as I think the Knicks are better WITH him, I don’t forsee any 1st or 2nd team All NBA awards in his career. 3rd team maybe, 6th Man, maybe.
by Chris Child's Fist on Dec 9, 2009 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
Duhon, having his best year, would still miss the all-star game, and would only be considered because he plays in NY and at a fast pace that inflates numbers.
Nate, having his best year, might win 6th man of the year, or be borderline all-star (for offensive ability and height alone).
everybody knows I'd trade Duhon in a hot second but
to suggests what numbers he has done for the Knicks are inflated is an insult I wouldn’t even throw on him and I once wished for him to drown in a kiddie pool or be kidnapped.
whatever numbers he’s done he’s earned them plain and simple. The system you play in makes a difference over the opportunities a player has within that playing style. A player still needs to go out there, play, and make the most of those said opportunities.
Coaches use systems that utilize their players talents Steve Nash’s accomplishments shouldn’t be slighted for playing in a uptempo system no more than Shaq’s for playing in a slower pace half court system most their lives. Their coaches simply planned around their talents.
What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!
by Lord Smackington on Dec 10, 2009 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
i want nate to play
but man don’t showboat after every shot….
Most of us like nate, but we all agree he has a little growing up to to
I think MD has a double standard for nate
because nate may be the most talented player on the team. He (and prob gallo) are the only two guys that could dominate a game. Lee, Hughes and Harrington have the ability to do in on occasion, but if Nate grows up, he could be a top player in this league… I really believe that.
I also think that Nate would have gotten back in by now, but the good play has prevented it. Coach not wanting to mess with a good thing.
I bet when we start to slip, Nate gets back in there… because when he does get in the game, it will be a big deal. You dont want it to be a distraction, but rather a motivator.
i would bet anything
he has seen that stat…and at the least sees it now.
of any athlete in any sport, I bet nate is a bigtime blog reader. I would even bet he has posted around the knick blogs a few times… prob not about the benching though.
that "stat" is so loaded
makes me sick. nate was in a huge slump to start the season, just like the entire team was. then got hurt! and came back looking decent but too bombastic in limited minutes on a team that was still spinning wheels in the mud.
somebody figure out our record when duhon plays 40+ i bet its similar. then do it over the course of the past two years. not just the first twenty games of a rotten (to date) season.
i want to keep nate. but it don’t look good. duhon still sucky sucky.
twitter.com/aighttho
http://howmuchyouthink.tumblr.com/
by stingy d on Dec 9, 2009 1:25 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
knicks record with duhon over/under 40min
2009-2010
1-2 (.333) du over 40
6-13 (.315) du under 40
2008-2009
10-15 (.400) du over 40
22- 35 (.385) du under 40
ok
so duhon runs a sub-400 club. AWESOME!
now run and get me a win/loss for nate at 40 minutes a game and dukehon under 12 minutes.
twitter.com/aighttho
http://howmuchyouthink.tumblr.com/
in 2008-2009
when nate went over 40 min knicks were 1-5 (.167), without they were 31-45 (.407)
when duh was under 12min knicks went 1-2, he didnt play in all 3
this isnt about comparing duhon and nate though. i agree du sucks. but that stat should not be totally dismissed. misleading, yes but this team has played its best basketball of the season without nate no matter how you cut it. i would love for nate to come back and contribute but toney absorbing more minutes is nothing but a good thing.
This Knick team is going to slightly suck with whomever is on the floor.
kanye shrug
http://scribingaccountant.blogspot.com/
http://twitter.com/wmarv
yeah, thats an interesting stat
however, I think the Knicks were playing much worse overall in those 0-9 games. I’d like to know what Nate’s +/- is in those games. D’Antoni hasn’t playedh im many minutes all year, and when he has gotten in, aside from a few immature moves recently, Nate has kept the Knicks in the game and trimmed leads.
by Chris Child's Fist on Dec 9, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
as someone bitter about the nate benching, this write up made me feel alot better about the situation, and thats saying alot because I am bitter sports fan (browns/knicks). I love nate. Speaking of people showboating aftyer every shot our man thats gonna be here next year (maybe) has the same problem….
I'm gonna be a straight up hater for a sec...
I think Nate’s benching is the best thing to happen to the Knicks in a while. The team already has plenty of guys who look for their shot, so no need to have another one in the rotation, especially when he’s a 5’9" 2-guard who regularly gets exploited on D. Nate’s insertion into the lineup would just add a one-dimensional player who needs minutes and takes away shots. Al’s not going to stop shooting, Lee will get his requisite combo of put-backs, elbow jumpers, and pick’n’rolls, and Hughes needs to shoot to keep the D honest (he’s a Shooting Guard). Do we want Nate taking Gallo’s shots? Where are these attempts supposed to come from?
I think that we can all agree that role acceptance has played a huge part in this mini-turnaround, and having Nate sittin pine has no small effect. Players feel less likely to be yanked if they fuck up once, and you can see that by their increasingly steady play. With Curry slated to get some burn in the upcoming games, I think it would be a mistake to throw Nate out there too.
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Dec 9, 2009 2:06 PM EST reply actions
Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
Those who haven’t had to study for the LSAT should look it up.
Anyway, just because the team has played well while Nate has been sitting does not mean that they’re playing well because he is sitting.
I really really hope that Hughes and Lee and Harrington keep playing like all-stars and Duhon continues to play better than adequately. After all, those are the reasons that the Knicks are on this hot streak. But they won’t. Lee and Harrington will regress to being very good players, Duhon will likely regress to being adequate (I hope), and Hughes is likely to regress to being below adequate (this is what happened after he played well for a few games early in the season and we thought he turned a corner).
When all this happens, Nate’s efficiency on the offensive end will really help a team that has, for most of the season, been horrid at that end. As long as everybody else is playing above their abilities (as those abilities were demonstrated with and without Nate for the past few years), Mike D has the luxury of keeping Nate in his doghouse.
"Dishin' and swishin' in transition"
by Serious Garbage Time on Dec 9, 2009 2:20 PM EST reply actions
This is exactly right.
I said before that I think NY has been fortunate to be on this winning streak. They have come up against the right teams and a few guys are playing very well right now. Nate doesn’t hinder that. I don’t like his DNPs but I understand them. But he has shown himself to be an asset. This is a tough stretch for him, but it sounds like he is trying to learn from it.
I agree Hughes won’t keep up his level of play, and Duhon hasn’t played much better than before (except for 2 games) and i STILL don’t feel comfortable with him running the team. Harrington’s shots are falling, but yeah, I think this is a warm streak.
I am ok with D’Antoni’s short 8 man rotation, but its barely 8 when you have Toney Douglas playing 6 minutes. I think he should be in the 15-18 range and Nate around 20-23. Duhon should NOT be playing 35+ (since he absolutely burned out last season) and Hughes won’t last long playing 35-38 minutes a night either. I love the wins, but sticking with OUR veterans this way…we are playing with fire.
by Chris Child's Fist on Dec 9, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
What Bothered Me
Is what I had read elsewhere about D’Antoni saying the ‘last straw’ had been Nate fooling around with Dwight before one of the Magic games and that Pringles thought that this cavorting with the enemy was inappropriate.
Of course, it’s not like he talks to EVERY SINGLE team USA player, former Sun or player he wants to play for the Knicks during, before and after games.
Good point
But that “last straw” information came from Berman at the Post and he’s full of shit.
"Dishin' and swishin' in transition"
by Serious Garbage Time on Dec 9, 2009 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
sumtimes i read everyones comments and just wonder y some people think the way they do...
Nate was benched by every pro coach he’s had…for the same thing…no other nba team wanted him in the off season as the knicks were prepared to let him and david lee go…and I don’t think mda said he was mad about nate playing around wit howard, that is hear say read it in a news paper. Dantoni has only said he has to be conducive to winning and that we are winning now so he’s sticking to his rotation
But what does he do different than Al Harrington, let’s say? They’re both 20/pga scorers and they both have a tendency to freeze the offense but Al stays in the rotation because MDA just flat out does not like Nate.
Nate fools around in practice, games, clutch time, garbage time…al harrington for the most part has been at least trying to help us win even tho his decision making is terrible sometimes and he shoots too much, honestly nate will most likely not be coming back neither will harrington but nate has to realize the knicks pay his check the fans just root for him
by IB on Dec 9, 2009 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
Al rebounds.
He also plays a position at which the Knicks are deficient. He also doesn’t bring up the ball.
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Dec 9, 2009 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
basicsall
Al has more of a situational advantage when he plays any of the frontcourt positions because of his strength and ability to create his own shot, and he’s been rebounding that isn’t being mentioned much props to anthony for mentioning that. Nate is a scorer a wonderful scorer but at 5"9 he’s an imediate liability on defense, and he’d rather shoot before pass that’s not a pg’s place which he clearly is by height, he’s a 7th man at best if there is a solid 1-6
by IB on Dec 9, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
Harrington is as much of a defensive liability as Nate
but the comparison of both players isnt what we should be after. We have a lot of Guards. more Gs than Forwards.
Sure, Nate is more of a scorer, but so are half the other PGs in the league. Nate is a short combo Guard, but hey…a scoring PG HELPS us. Duhon’s been beyond horrible scoring-wise this year!!! You NEED a PG who is a threat to score in this system. Duhon has been driving more recently, but teams still part the lane like the Red Sea for him. Duhon’s not even delivering on the assists as much either. Nate and Toney score first, but they can still dish the rock plenty good.
by Chris Child's Fist on Dec 9, 2009 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
Really?
Harrington “also plays a position at which the Knicks are deficient”?
I disagree. Harrington is a 6’9" shooting forward. His playing time blocks our Cock. All Nate’s playing time blocks is Hughes and Duhon.
Harrington is also one of the worst rebounders in the League at his height.
"Dishin' and swishin' in transition"
by Serious Garbage Time on Dec 9, 2009 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
Al is our default PF
He’s 2nd on the team in rebounding. He also can score down low and has a variety of moves. He’s in no way an ideal player, but he offers more than Nate, not that the two should be compared.
I just think that when setting a rotation, Nate’s skill set is so limited that he should be the first one to go. Lee, Gallo, Du, Al, Hughes, Jeffries, Curry, and Jeffries should all play before Nate.
Also, I absolutely think that Nate’s absence has directly affected our play in a positive way. Nate plays dumb basketball. No two ways around it. Name one player who plays like Nate that you would want on your team.
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Dec 9, 2009 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
How about more than one?
According to basketballprospectus.com, he’s most similar to:
Jameer Nelson
Maurice Williams
Jason Terry
Kelvin Ransey
I’ll take any of those guys. Well, maybe not Ransey.
"Dishin' and swishin' in transition"
by Serious Garbage Time on Dec 9, 2009 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
Those are 4 totally different players
Jason Terry is a lock down defender, is 6’2" and plays the 2. He also is one of the best 3-point shooters in the game. Jameer Nelson rarely shoots from outside and is 4 inches taller (not a fan of his game either but thats somewhat irrelevant). Mo Williams is also a legit defender, is 6’1" and a career 40% 3-point shooter.
And J.R. Smith is a legit 2. Not a pg. Also is 6’6".
I’d also take any of those guys over Nate. In a heartbeat. Its like a asked you guys to name a player like Harold Miner and you named Kobe, Jordan and Vince Carter
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Dec 9, 2009 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/nate_robinson/career_stats.html
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jameer_nelson/career_stats.html
Nate’s taken roughly 200 more in one less than one year, I wouldn’t say Nelson rarely shoots from the outside.
And Mo Williams can’t defend at all, let’s not kid around. Let’s judge by steals, something ‘good’ defensive guards are usually judged on:
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/maurice_williams/career_stats.html
Nate has around 150 less, in two years less.
dude
you didnt help your argument much there. In fact you reinforced mine.
Nate – 7,254 minutes and 382-1090 from three, good for 35%
Nelson – 9324 min and 341-873 from 3 good for just under 40%
Thats almost the same amount of 3s, but Nelson did it over 2,000 more minutes and 200 fewer attempts. Thats, like, pretty significant.
And, not to get all Hollinger, but steals are a bad measurement of overall D. Iverson was near the top of the league in steals for his whole prime. He just played a gambling style, ala Nate, to compensate for his height.
I don’t know a good defensive metric offhand, so lets compare offense instead. Mo averages just under 40% from 3 and has improved markedly every year, where Nate has gotten worse every year. Mo shoots an overall better % and has more assists/min. And he’s not 5’9".
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Dec 10, 2009 12:07 AM EST up reply actions
Nate's height
Isn’t really significant – only his performance matters. Stats are one thing but a lot of defense is caring about defense. Also none of those stats really show if a player is good at making other players better. Nate’s stats last year looked pretty good, but whether he is helping the team win more games is a much more difficult thing to determine and it’s still up in the air for me.
tru
alot of it is caring, I think given the right motivations n8 could be a consistent weapon defensively but I don’t think our winning streak has much to do with him not playing the same way I don’t think wins or losses are attribute to any one player in particular. Even though blaming someone is always convenient and fun.
What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!
by Lord Smackington on Dec 10, 2009 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
its about caring
when you aren’t physically limited. Carmelo’s lack of D up until last year was about caring. Andray Blatche not being a straight up baller is about caring.
There hasn’t been a player under 5’10" in the history of the game who isn’t a defensive liability. Spudd Webb, Mugsy, Boykins…all those guys are freaks of nature, physical specimens, yadda yadda. They all also played on shitty teams and got housed on defense. Nate is no different.
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Dec 10, 2009 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
I totally agree with you on size...pause
but there are tall players who are defensive liabilities….Curry, for instance so I would say not only does effort and physical attributes play a part but also skill.
It’s easy to say n8 sucks on D if he’s 5’9" and he’s up against a 6’3" guard but if ur n8 sometimes ur not going to win that matchup no matter if u play perfect defense simply because the shooter will always have the advantage getting his shot off anytime he pleases. Doesn’t mean it was bad D, he was just simply overmatched. That he has no control over, but with effort he could guard Tony Parker and shut him down, He can guard a Rondo and shut him down, Sessions, Miller….shut down. Some of those guys have the height over him but don’t have a great shot. Provided he gave the effort it is possible for him to be a defensive threat.
What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!
by Lord Smackington on Dec 10, 2009 9:08 PM EST up reply actions
no offense, but all thes guys are pretty offensive
yeh Nelson and N8 are very different players but Terry, Williams, and Smith? yea I’d take those guys too, but despite their height and “positions” they all have pretty similar games. And as far as Terry, I like his game and have no qualms about taking him but he’s a pretty avg defender. In fact his defensive abilites are similar to n8’s as well. both struggling at times guarding on the ball but using athleticism to make up mistakes by going for steals. I would give an edge to Terry but only because of his height.
And a players natural position really isn’t important these days as opposed to how a players talents and skillset is utilized in any one system.
What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!
by Lord Smackington on Dec 10, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
I'm only referring to them by positions
because it helps define their skill sets more specifically. Nate is a 2 guard in a PG body and i refuse to accept that it doesn’t matter that he’s 5’9". If he was 6’1", you could hide him against weak 2s, but the sheer physical disparity makes any guy he guards over 6’3" a blatant mismatch. Furthermore, he needs to play alongside a facilitator if there is any hope of ball movement at all. All those guys mentioned above?
JR Smith plays with Billups.
Jameer played with Turk (guy basically ran the point during the whole playoffs)
Mo played with Bron
Terry plays with Kidd.
Nate plays with…Duhon. Thats a tiny and soft backcourt man.
If Nate were to play strictly with Hughes, while Hughes runs the point and guards the bigger guard, maybe MAYBE that would work, but I’ve never seen a guy smaller than 5’10" who didnt regularly get posted up and abused. Its basketballl. Size matters..pause
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Dec 10, 2009 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
EFFORT
.its the effort that dant is looking for.. nate has been nonchalant as of late with his antics not being conductive to the teams motive and mentality towards the beginning of games… al harrington has been a workaholic and deserves the time he is getting…
i would love to see nate on thet floor but hes got to step up and keep doing the things hes been trying to do in the past week to get back on the floor.
are you more confident...
with Duhon driving the lane or with Nate Robinson driving? I know who I prefer.
by Chris Child's Fist on Dec 9, 2009 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
Who's better at getting Lee an easy shot on the pick and roll?
I don’t think that Nate is a good replacement for Duhon – they both do different things.
nate
duhon always jumps when he passes which is the cardinal sin of passing (thank you clyde). we have seen last year and a bit this duhon can play the pick-and-roll very well, but i really think nate can too. keep in mind duhon was near the league leader in minutes for the first 60ish games so we didnt get the change to see nate be the only pg on the floor.
Look
I don’t think it’s so much about the fooling around. I think it’s that the guy celebrates when he blocks a shot or hits a shot, even with the team having a bad record and losing by 15 in the fourth quarter. And while he’s celebrating, he’s giving the other team an advantage by not staying with the play and in the action. This kind of behavior also motivates the other team.
I think that shows that he’s happy to be in the NBA and to be making some good plays out there. But that’s not going to cut it. Yes, he’s allowed to have fun and smile, but he has to show a committment to doing every little thing he can possibly do to help the Knicks win a game. Winning games is the thing he should celebrate, not some individual highlight play.
So I think D’antoni benched him because he wasn’t helping them win a game as much as Toney is.
Hopefully Nate will get the message and I hope he has it within him to dedicate himself to winning, because without that, all his freakish talent won’t do anything to help the Knicks win a game. But I’m glad to hear he is rededicating himself. He’s not too old to learn that, although it’s awesome that he’s a millionaire and can make plays that make 20,000 fans cheer, it won’t last long unless he becomes completely dedicated to WINNING and unsatisfied with anything less.
You know, I think Curry, though he’s a different type of personality, has had the same problem throughout his career. And I do see signs that he is figuring out that if he doesn’t rededicate himself to working harder on the little things that may not come so easily to him, he’ll be out of the league soon. Same with N8.
Ha,Ha,Ha!
Sorry fellas! When did Gallo prove to anyone that he is so dominant! He had one big game and you’ve guys have made his into Larry Bird! If Nate and Gallo are our 2 best players, we’re in trouble. One guy played 1 great (all-around) game and the othet doesn’t play at all! I love Nate and Gallo, but neither has proved diddly. Nate hasn’t proved he has any self control at all, and Gallo missed most of last season, and this season is still in its infancy. Once Gallo gets his rebounding and defense together he’ll be twice as better. Even Dirk Nowit-hisname couldn’t play defense and rebound in his early years. Stop hating on Harrington for crying out loud!! I know he takes too many bad shots, D’Antoni is happy with it. Everybody takes bad shots on the Knicks, even David Lee (from time to time). If the Knicks are going to make the playoffs, Harrington is going to have to keep shooting. If you watched the Portland game, you would have saw the other Knicks deferring to him especially with a low shot clock. The Knicks had a slow start, and needed a go to guy. If you watched any Knick games, you saw Gallo doing a good amount of deferring to others. He is still young and growing. He has only one dominant game this season.
who is this guy...
I wonder if you’ve really watched gallo play…gobs of potential…sweet shoot…dunks…has 16 blocks in 21 games…in his first full season he’s almost averaging 1 block 1 steal, he is averaging 4 rebs, 1.5 ast, 3 treys a game, 44 3pt%, 45 fg%, 81 ft%, not too mention he’s is the driving force behind al harrington as their play will determine who starts at sf or pf all season, and he opens up the lanes because teams have to guard him on the perimeter
by IB on Dec 10, 2009 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
percolating
it seems now that duhon does not have natw brwathing down his neck for playing time. we see a more confident, assertive approach from chris.
it is my contention that if we switched the two. nate would be running point with ten times the conviction and accuracy.
duhon shoots 20% on the year. nate doesn’t fuck around like that.
point is- when guys are not in danger of getting yanked for one mistake they get a boost inconfidence. it also makes a big play feel more “routine”, so to speak.
debating nate vs harrington is moot because they are not in a positional battle. therefore they are not truly at odds inthis discussion.
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by stingy d on Dec 9, 2009 10:00 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I must respectfully disagree...
It’s Nate’s 5th year in the league, and every coach he’s had has tried, because of his height, to turn him into a point guard and no one’s been happy with the situation. I know that coaches like guys who do what they say to do on the floor, but coaches also like to win, and I think if one of these coaches thought Nate would help them win from the point guard position, somebody would have tried to start him there.
Yes, he can dribble, shoot, and even pass, but I don’t see him as the right type of personality to be a floor leader. Stranger things have happened, I guess, but I just don’t see it.
I respectfully agree with the agreement upon which you disagreed
but Jason “white chocolate” Williams had a few of the same things maybe rightfully said about him. He has a bad attitude, too flamboyant, doesn’t care about winning, doesn’t care about defense etc etc… given he has different skills than nate but given time and a more mature outlook he was able to help Miami win a title after adjusting his game (not to mention this was despite those same skills had deteriorated while he was busy maturing.)
What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!
by Lord Smackington on Dec 10, 2009 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
great point
sidenote: jwill is having a better season than duhon
three game winning streak
All this talk about wanting to see Nate on the floor is making me sick. Do you want to have a team that wins, or do you want to see Nate? We’ve won the last four out of five including beating up on the Suns, Hawks, and Blazers. There’s absolutely no reason to complain when you’re winning games.
I do think there is a double standard
I think Dantoni expects certain things from certain players and since n8 is a pg/sg or whateva he’s expected to be more mature than the other guys. Harrington is just as bad before the game…and during, remember the hanging on the rim….TWICE. Now they are playing different positions but if the argument is that you have to be mature and level headed to start then the fact that Harrington starts is a bit perplexing. If the argument is the best talent should start then n8 should without doubt be starting in place of Duhon
What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!
by Lord Smackington on Dec 10, 2009 3:04 PM EST reply actions
I think there's a difference
Harrington pulls on his jersey and does that kind of goofing, but he does it while keeping his eye on his man and hustling down to floor to at least try to play D. He’s not playing to the crowd in quite the same way, I don’t think.
Harrington does put forth more effort on D
which does put him a notch above n8. But I honestly believe that if n8 tried harder he’d be a better defender at his position than Harrington would be at his. And that is saying alot because Harrington is pretty much the average size for a power forward. N8 aint focused on the right things and that’s a given it’s just…IDK
I feel like in the league some guys get passes and other guys don’t, not saying N8 didn’t deserved to be put in his place cuz he does so he can’t complain. but I tell ya, Harrington is just as big a goofball and I’ve seen more than a few occasion Dantoni should have pulled him aside.
I don’t feel Harrington is a bad player but he doesn’t bring anything so valuable to the table that he should be exempted from discipline for some of his decisions.
What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!
by Lord Smackington on Dec 10, 2009 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
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