Opposing players and standing ovations

by Anthony Masons Haircut on Feb 3, 2009 11:41 AM EST Comment 37 comments

I thought I should try my best to make a clarification on a disturbing trend that has happened at Madison Square Garden since the Knicks franchise has gone in the tank: standing ovations for opposing players.

Kobe Bryant's 61-point effort earned him a standing O from the Garden faithful last night. Knicks' fans have a great appreciation for basketball, and under certain circumstances breaking the Madison Square Garden all-time scoring record would warrant such a response. However, Knicks fandom should trump any kind of acknowledgement for a special performance like Kobe's 61.

Kobe's standing ovation was completely unacceptable for several reasons:

A) the streaking Knicks had won 8 of 11 and were just one-half game out of the 8th and final playoff spot in the East.
B) the Knicks have also been playing much better at home of late, and would've gotten a huge boost with a victory over the Lakers.
C) last night's game was arguably the biggest regular season game for the Knicks since February of 2006, and if you want to go back further, to the 2003-04 season.
D) Kobe is annoying and seeing former Knicks fans with his jersey on in attendance makes me throw up in my mouth.

Kobe is embarrassing your team, and you're applauding?!

All of that being said, there are times when a standing ovation for an opposing player IS acceptable:

A) the Knicks are 10 or more games under .500 and out of the playoff race.
B) said player is playing his last game at the Garden and you're really happy that he's never coming back (i.e. Reggie Miller).
C) said player is going to eventually become a Knick, and you're pre-cheering for how awesome he's going to be when he's on your team (i.e. LeBron James).
D) said player prevents David Lee from achieving a double-double (borderline impossible).
E) Isiah is still the coach and you want said player to be kicked in the face and/or groin area.

Just my two cents.

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I, for one,

Was fucking disgusted.

Can I Live?

Mutombo Finger Wag

by Starkstastic on Feb 3, 2009 1:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

agreed

i think congratulations are in order. that snake had a great game. he got us. but you can’t let him feel like he is allowed to come in and drop 60 whenever he damn well pleases. standing ovations are for the home team.

new york is lacking self respect these days.

by stingy d on Feb 3, 2009 3:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I want to point this out

This shit would have NEVER happened in the 90’s!!! Oak and Mase would have never allowed that asshole to run around the court and do whatever he wanted then again a 90’s Knicks crowd would have never cheered an opposing player either.

When does maybe next year become this year?

by kenner70 on Feb 4, 2009 9:22 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Michael Did It:

1. Against a Knicks team that gave up 95.1 PPG, good for second in the league. This Knicks team gives up 106 PPG.
2. Kobe had 20 FTs… Michael only had 11.
3. Mase and Starks were guarding Michael. Wilson Chandler (no offense) and assorted mystery meat were guarding Kobe.
4. It was Jordan’s 5th game back from retirement.

His 5th game back.

You all did love him once. - The New York Knicks.

by THEWILLY on Feb 4, 2009 11:46 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

yea

that’s different.

by stingy d on Feb 4, 2009 11:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The Knicks gave up 111 that game

16 points more than usual. The Knicks two days ago gave up 117, so thats 11 more points than usual.

Mike shot a lower FG % than Kobe did.

Also, if I take your averages, we’ll assume that these Knicks were 106/95 = 111.5% worse, so Mike would have scored 55 *1.115 = 61 points. The same!

Also Mike took way more his teams shots so he was more ball hoggy.

But then, he did get the game winning assist. And he helped get a stop on Starks in the last seconds.

by Gils_Keloids on Feb 4, 2009 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

let's nip this Mike vs. Kobe thing in the bud

there is no comparison.

MJ is incomprable. Kobe, though great, doesn’t hold a candle to him.

Ewing with the step...YES! and the foul!

by Anthony Masons Haircut on Feb 4, 2009 3:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

There is a comparison

That’s what’s lame. Kobe might not be as good, but he definitely “holds a candle” to Mike. Probably burns him with it a little too. As if Kobe would be some schlub in Mike’s era.

by Gils_Keloids on Feb 4, 2009 7:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

by no means would Kobe be a "schlub" in any era

but he’s not Jordan, he’ll never be Jordan, and frankly it’s stupid to try to compare them. until Kobe wins a ring without the most dominant player of the era in his prime (Shaq), then it’s really not even worth bringing up.

but, for a good laugh, you can compare MJ’s playoff statistics to Kobe’s.

MJ: 33.4 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 5.7 apg, 1.7 spg, 49% FG
Kobe: 24.3 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 4.6 apg, 1.3 spg, 44% FG

or for more fun, you could compare their NBA Finals stats.

like i said, doesn’t hold a candle, and i’m not sure anyone does. that isn’t a knock on Kobe. it’s just the truth.

Ewing with the step...YES! and the foul!

by Anthony Masons Haircut on Feb 4, 2009 8:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

OK, If you want to post stats

61 points in MSG. 81 points in Toronto. See how lame that sounds? They’re just stats.

But even if Kobe were to win rings without Shaq in the future, it doesn’t mean anything because he was actually a better player in previous years, so what would that prove?

by Gils_Keloids on Feb 4, 2009 10:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It sounds lame because you offer two games as an example

Mase’s stats are representative of years-worth of data. Nobody’s saying Kobe’s not an amazing player, just that he’s not MJ. Who is? This is not an insult by any stretch.

Can I Live?

Mutombo Finger Wag

by Starkstastic on Feb 4, 2009 10:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It's not an insult

It’s more an over hype of Jordan.

And years worth of data with no context is lame.

by Gils_Keloids on Feb 5, 2009 1:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i feel like

you didn’t watch jordan. as great as kobe and lebron are… jordan had something extra. regardless of stats. i hate stats. jordan was just a little more infallible.

by stingy d on Feb 5, 2009 10:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

you don't know what you're talking about

you disregard a whole career worth of playoff stats (both Jordan and Kobe) and point out Kobe’s REGULAR SEASON performances against the Knicks and Raptors? wow.

81 and 61 are great, but frankly those performances don’t mean much.

you know what performances DID mean something?
1991 NBA Finals: 31.2 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 11.4 apg (MVP)
1992 NBA Finals: 35.8 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 6.5 apg (MVP)
1993 NBA Finals: 41.0 ppg, 8.5 rpg, 6.5 apg (MVP)
1996 NBA Finals: 27.3 ppg, 5.4 rpg, 4.2 apg (MVP)
1997 NBA Finals: 32.3 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 6.1 apg (MVP)
1998 NBA Finals: 33.5 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 2.3 apg (MVP)

Kobe’s numbers during his trips:
2000 NBA Finals: 15.6 ppg, 4.5 apg (Shaq: 38 ppg, 16.7 rpg MVP)
2001 NBA Finals: 24.6 ppg, 5.8 apg (Shaq: 33.3 ppg, 15.4 rpg MVP)
2002 NBA Finals: 26.7 ppg, 5.2 apg (Shaq: 36.3 ppg, 12.3 rpg MVP)
2004 NBA Finals: 22.6 ppg, 4.4 apg (Shaq: 26.6 ppg, 10.8 rpg)
2008 NBA Finals: 25.6 ppg, 5.0 apg

i hate relying on statistics too, but when the gap is that wide, there is no argument. there’s also no “over-hype”. anyone with two eyeballs and a brain that watched both Jordan and Kobe know that MJ was a better player.

i have two eyeballs, a brain, and a shitload of statistics to back it up.

Ewing with the step...YES! and the foul!

by Anthony Masons Haircut on Feb 5, 2009 11:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You're all missing the point.

Danilo Gallinari is better than both of them.

Posting and Toasting: "Say yo Oak, what's the dish tonight? A couple steaks on the grill and we season it right."

by Seth on Feb 5, 2009 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

so true

by stingy d on Feb 5, 2009 1:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I do not have

Eyeballs or a brain.

And I still know that Kobe “holds a candle” to MJ. As does Lebron.

by Gils_Keloids on Feb 5, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yea but not gallnari

the real eyebrains and balls

by stingy d on Feb 5, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

it's OK i understand

most people born in the 90’s (like you most likely were seeing as how you’re arguing with a straight face that Kobe or LeBron are equals to MJ), didn’t get a chance to see how elite Jordan truly was. that sucks.

by the way, LeBron/Kobe: six NBA Finals appearances, zero MVPS. Jordan: six NBA Finals appearances, six MVPs. LeBron/Kobe: one regular season MVP. Jordan: five regular season MVPs.

Jordan’s in a league of his own.

Ewing with the step...YES! and the foul!

by Anthony Masons Haircut on Feb 5, 2009 7:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i mean

jordan won three championships in a row. then took a few years off. then came back to win 3 more in a row. i mean… more than 50% of an entire decade’s worth of championships. insanity!

by stingy d on Feb 5, 2009 7:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well that's interesting considering I was born

in the 1970s and have been watching basketball since before you were probably born since you mythologize Mike and conveniently forget the 10-30 nights (much like Kobe’s night tonight) …

by Gils_Keloids on Feb 6, 2009 12:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

this

is starting to look like the malay i brought to cleveland.

by stingy d on Feb 6, 2009 2:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

this is going to be my last response

crap, i totally forgot about Kobe’s jaw-dropping performances in two regular season games in the first week of February. that’s has to prove that he’s the best player ever!

i’m happy that you got to see Jordan play. i hardly “mythologize” Jordan…

is it a myth that Michael won five NBA MVPs, and Kobe won one? is it a myth that Michael won six NBA Finals MVPs, and Kobe won zero? is it a myth that Michael has better career regular season and postseason numbers in scoring, rebounding, assists, steals, blocks, field goal percentage, and three-point field goal percentage than Kobe? is it a myth that Michael won Rookie of the Year and NBA Defensive Player of the Year, neither of which Kobe ever won? is it a myth that Kobe won all of his rings with the most dominant player of the era in his prime, while Michael won all of his rings as the most dominant player maybe in NBA history?

is all of that a myth as you say, or is it fact?

you are in fact older than me. congratulations. you still haven’t don’t have anyhting to back up your bullshit claims. no regular season stats. no postseason stats. less awards. less rings. nothing.

as a side note, i am anything but a Jordan fan considering that he traumatized my early life by knocking out my beloved Knicks in 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993 and 1996.

Ewing with the step...YES! and the foul!

by Anthony Masons Haircut on Feb 6, 2009 10:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

What you claim as "facts"

Are merely accolades and stats.

Ex: A varsity high schooler could beat up on 7th graders and have stats of 30ppg 7 reb , 7 ast, and be named most awesome player of the world ten times.

A different varsity high schooler could play in his team’s league and score 15ppg, 4reb, 4 ast, and not ever be named to his all-league team.

And yet, they could both have the same skill level.

I apologize if that is too difficult to understand.

by Gils_Keloids on Feb 6, 2009 11:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Guys

Stop.

Posting and Toasting: "Say yo Oak, what's the dish tonight? A couple steaks on the grill and we season it right."

by Seth on Feb 6, 2009 1:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

like i said

last response. i don’t really have anything else to add. i guess agree to disagree.

that was a really awesome and relevant comeback by the way. it makes a ton of sense.

Mike Dunleavy (Pacers) averages 15 ppg, 4 reb, 4 ast, and he’s never been on the All-League team. i guess he’s on the same skill level as Jordan in your world, right?

by SBakerTheTouchdownMaker on Feb 6, 2009 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs