Knicks Preparing An Offer For Sessions?
by Seth on Jul 21, 2009 8:29 AM EDT
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PrintMilwaukee guard Ramon Sessions has long been on the Knicks' radar, and it sounds like Donnie Walsh may be nearing his first free agent acquisition of the summer. From Marc Berman at Tha Post:
Walsh is on the verge of making Sessions a long-term, mid-level offer for roughly $26 million, the player's agent told The Post yesterday.
Walsh met with veteran free agent point guard Andre Miller yesterday at the team's Westchester facility, but the Knicks look at the 33-year-old Miller as a one-year rental, making him a longshot option.
On the other hand, Sessions, 23, now is being regarded by the Knicks as a point-guard-of-the-future type.
The Knicks became reluctant to get serious about Sessions earlier this month. They felt the Bucks would match a mid-level offer and didn't want to be tied up waiting on Milwaukee.
Now they think the Bucks will pass because of their comfort level with first-round draft pick Brandon Jennings, who is the centerpiece of the team's season-ticket marketing campaign on their Web site.
Though this move would dip into 2010 money and, as Berman notes, affect the David Lee situation, it sounded before as if most of y'all were with me in embracing the possibility of Sessions in NY. It's hard to say where the Bucks are drawing the line, but I can't imagine them matching a four-year deal for a backup to Jennings. So, now that a dollar figure has been mentioned, what's the feeling? Remember that, as of yet, this is all hearsay and there's no actual offer on the table.
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Hahn's Twitter:
Knix can offer Sessions a starting role. Clips can give more $$. (Here we go again). Bux are in love with BJennings enough to move on…
Posting and Toasting: "Say yo Oak, what's the dish tonight? A couple steaks on the grill and we season it right."
Clips
Just traded for Telfair so it’s unclear if they’re still making confessions for Sessions. (Sorry. I’ll work on that.)
"Ariza on Mobley, trying to put some chillin on his thrillin"
"Vexing D, makes you hurry, makes you worry"
by Serious Garbage Time on Jul 21, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
nooooooooooo
id rather ride it out with duhon and nate. if u check out the numbers sessions and duhon are almost the same player in terms of points rebounds and assists. sessions is not going to make us better. this is a bad move. i said it before and ill say it again. just sign nate n lee and let our younger players grow up. we keep stacking up lottery picks. but when the hell do we groom them? or are we supposed to keep trading them to the lakers where they will reach their full potential and help kobe get a ring?????
Sessions vs. Duhon
Sessions (23 years old): 12.4 ppg, 45% FG, 5.7 apg, 1.9 TO, 2.6 rpg
Duhon (27 before the season starts): 11.1 ppg, 42% FG, 7.2 apg, 2.8 TO, 2.5 rpg
when looking strictly from a numbers standpoint, the two are pretty similar. however, i think Sessions can be a full-time starter at PG, whereas i think most of us would agree that Duhon is best suited as a backup.
i’m hesitant to take any 2010 money off the books or hurt the chances to re-signing Lee (who is obviously not getting the offers he had hoped for), but there’s something about Sessions’ (pause)that i really like.
Ewing with the step...YES! and the foul!
by Anthony Masons Haircut on Jul 21, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Guys...
Duhom put up those numbers playing 36 minutes on one of the fastest teams in the league (meaning lots of possessions per game). Sessions put those numbers up playing 27 minutes (that’s a little more than 2/3rds of Duhon’s minutes) in a middle of the road offense in terms of pace.
Duhon had far more possessions to put up those numbers, meaning comparing the raw numbers is insane. Sessions is 5 yrs younger than Duhon and already much better. There’s no comparison.
yea
i don’t know how to find the stats everyone always conjures up. but i am fully aware of how one guy’s pace adjusted per/36 or whatever is the most exact way to compare them by numbers.
but look man all that numbers stuff is weak… if you watch the games, sessions can flat out ball. and he can outplay duhon, no question. and he fits right in with gallinari, chandler, and lee. he fits riht along with nate too. but it seems like the brass is willing to let nate walk.
twitter.com/aighttho
Basketball-reference.com
is a good site for player stats.
Ramon’s per 36 min. stats for last year were 16.2 pts., 7.5 ast, 1.4 stl, 2.5 TO, .445 fg, and (ugh) .176 3pt, with a 17.6 PER in 79 games and 2173 minutes. Ramon has a 6.9 Pure Point Rating, according to knickerblogger.net.
Goosedown’s comparable stats were 10.9 pts, 7.0 ast, 0.9 stl, 2.7 TO, .422 fg, and .391 3pt (taking 4.0 per 36, compared to Ramon’s 0.6), with a 12.2 PER in 79 games and 2906 minutes. Goosedown’s PPR is 5.4.
Plus, Goosedown allegedly loves the night life and loves to boogie.
Not much of a contest.
"Ariza on Mobley, trying to put some chillin on his thrillin"
"Vexing D, makes you hurry, makes you worry"
by Serious Garbage Time on Jul 21, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
true.
so “the cypher” can’t can the triple. big deal, right? he can bring the ball to the rim and finish, and duhon can’t.
thanks for the basketball refernce site. it’s cool and easy! i’ll be finding it useful in the future. only thing i’d like to add to your breakdown is the free throw comparison. which i always think is major for a pg. pg’s should get to the line and convert – especially if the three ball is not a thing of beauty.
the cypher per 36 ft-attempts is 5.4 and the % is .792
goosedown per36 ft-attempts is 2.0 and his % is .810
now imagine all the layups duhon short-armed that the cypher would have converted.
i’m all about sessions!
twitter.com/aighttho
Excellent addition
The FTs seal the deal, much like Goosedown himself cannot.
"Ariza on Mobley, trying to put some chillin on his thrillin"
"Vexing D, makes you hurry, makes you worry"
by Serious Garbage Time on Jul 22, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
i would say
the idea that “numbers stuff is weak” was part of our problem the last few years. to look at, randolph, marbury, crawford can all “flat out ball.” We need to be smarter about this.
Not disagreeing with you, I love the idea of signing Sessions, I just think we need to be smart about how we approach transactions and that includes high-level statistical analysis.
i hear ya
but i never thought randolph or marbury were very good players ever in my life. they can flat out score. yea. but they are not good basketball players. they dominate the ball too much.
however, crawford is different. i like crawford.
twitter.com/aighttho
um
you cant just sign nate if dudes are offering 10 million a year, first off…
and the numbers may be similar but you have to look b eyond that. Duhons numbers are inflated because of a system, Sessions numbers are deflated because w hen he did start, it was WITH luke ridnour at the same time, because scott skiles is an idiot….not to mention stacking up lottery picks?! we dont have one next year buddy…
reppin NYC, and my clothing line, Recruit Zero !
www. recruitzero.com !!!
by Prezs2ReprsntMe on Jul 21, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
if we wanna talk numbers
duhon in 2007-2008, the year before coming to new york, ini which he was coached partially by scott skiles
22.6 minutes, 5.8 points, 4 assists
sessions last year, the year before a hypothetical season in new york, in which he was coached by scott skiles
27.5 mpg, 12.6 points, 5.7 assists
d’antoni-ball increases offensive statistics. and in a year of d’antoniball, du, who was entirely sucky for his entire career, posted numbers as good as ramon sessions’, who was playing under scott friggin skiles. nuf said.
i'll take sessions over duhon any day of the week
but i’m gonna figure that this is the end of nate. and i’m gonna be right. if sessions goes elsewhere or if the bucks match… there is still that slim chance we keep nate. i don’t get it though. i think nate absolutely should be kept.
but i like the idea of signing sessions and letting duhon walk next year. and holding onto nate of course.
twitter.com/aighttho
I Agree with Kara
The numbers don’t look good, Sessions can’t hit an outside shot, and shouldn’t it be a warning sign that Sessions had a solid season but the Bucks have completely abandoned him for an unproven Brandon Jennings already?
the bucks are just stupid
Jennings is a huge gamble and it seems like he is the starter on day 1. I say we capitalize on this and pick Sessions up. It’s laughable that some here don’t think Sessions is leaps and bounds better than Duhon. Sessions is going to kill in our system.
by Hood on Jul 21, 2009 1:27 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think Jenning is gonna be a sleeper next year
Maybe that European Experience might actually mean something. If you think about it, hes probably one of the first straight-out-of-high-school kid to go to a professional league overseas. Hes like a living experiment. He wasn’t stellar overseas, but he also didn’t get consistent minutes.
The European game is more team-orientated and is a lot more lenient on defensive rules than the NBA. Jennings could potentially take advantage of the American style of Basketball or struggle to adjust to it.
It remains to be seen if the European Experience was worth it… but if it does workout… I can foresee a revolution… talented young players staying in Europe for a year in order gain valuable “professional” experience…. and perhaps lead to the demise of College Basketball.
I agree that Session would kill in New Yorks system. When Chris Duhon was a Bull hes was nothing more than a solid backup. D’Antoni turned him into a decent starting PG. I can only imagine what D’Antoni can turn Sessions into…
The only thing to worry about with Session though, is his lack of three point shooting. Duhon ability to make the three kept the defense honest when hes on the perimeter. Teams could play more off Sessions when hes behind the arc. But again I wouldn’t underestimate D’Antoni, he was able too more or less hide Steve Nash’s weaknesses (defense) when he was in Phoenix. And Phoenix was a 50 win team back then while being average to below average on defense… He could probably probably adjust his system a little bit to make things work with Sessions.
The Bucks are tangled up in cap problems
The consensus I’ve seen elsewhere is that the Bucks will match the midlevel, especially now that they’re clear of cap trouble having lost Hector V. to Detroit.
Even with Jennings on the way, it’s quite possible they’ll match a MLE offer. If the question is the length of the deal, they can always treat Ramon Sessions as a tradeable asset later on, when Brandon “cockiest player in NBA history” Jennings has developed some.
It’s not like they can do without a bad defensive guard on that team, you know? A stable of those is indispensable to their plans.
Keep in mind
If I recall, Sessions absolutely killed the Knicks last year… but may not have had as much success against the rest of the league. Whether he turns out better than Duhon is anyone’s guess. But I think it’s apparent that the Knicks are not particularly high on Duhon. If they really felt that his dropoff last year was due to injury and were still satisfied with him, they wouldn’t be pursuing every point guard under the sun. From the squawking of Sessons’ agent, it sounds like the Knicks are where he prefers to go. I think the Knicks are trying to work out a sign and trade because they don’t want to risk having Milwaukee match, and then having to repair the Duhon relationship. Maybe the Knicks could include a sign and traded Nate with Duhon to the Bucks to get Sessions more $$$. Then Nate could wear green all the time. I wish something would happen already!
Im gunna stick to my guns and approve of this
i was hoping for knicks to offer sessions the same deal as they offered kidd (3years of mle). But if clippers are involved and 26mil is only way to land him im down for it. I still think he will be tremendous success in this system and our pg of future. Clearly walsh did not have that belief with duhon as he only got a 2year deal.
"if it aint broke, dont break it"
This is
Very good news. Huge improvement at PG over Duhon. Stats aside, Sessions has more potential, way more.
judging from that picture
we should be signing adonal foyle instead!
but seriously i’m cool with the move, if it happens. sessions really does need to extend his range though.
by latrell chokewell on Jul 21, 2009 3:06 PM EDT reply actions
I was gonna say that too.
I’d love to have sessions. He’s a 10-and-10 guy, in my opinion. I wouldn’t mind contract, either.
"I'll probably go get lifted right now with Greg. Hey, and come back tomorrow and try to get another win."
-Renaldo
by solanumbrella on Jul 21, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Queries
Are the Knicks over the cap for this season?
Is this why we are limited to the MLE?
Is there any other way for Walsh to structure the deal?
by Blueshirts Rock on Jul 21, 2009 5:12 PM EDT reply actions
Knicks have been over the cap for the past 10 years
where have you been?
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 21, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess a little slow on the uptake
Just thought that with all the shuffling from last season we might have cleared some cap space for this season in addition to next.
But a sign and trade would pay Sessions a little more $$$ and we’d still have the MLE for Miller. This assumes Duhon and/or Nate goes to the Bucks in exchange.
by Blueshirts Rock on Jul 22, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Consider the options
The Knicks considered a very old Jason Kidd, are considering an old Andre Miller, and were intrigued by an old Steve Nash.
Would you rather have a young PG who has proven he can play in the NBA, and will still be playing 3 years from now, or a guy on the downside of their career who almost definitely won’t be playing 3 years from now?
If they’re going to make a move, Sessions is a good one.
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by DiscipleofClyde Dan on Jul 21, 2009 6:56 PM EDT reply actions
The thing is
he’s not old, so the Knicks probably won’t even offer.
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 22, 2009 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions
A+ on Sessions
If the Knicks can pull off getting Sessions this would turn out to be a great move I see that Walsh has something up his sleeve with Andre Miller as well. Think about it you grab Sessions 23 year old guard who can defend and flat out killed the Knicks and other teams last year, maybe pull off a sign and trade for Duhon and grab Miller now you have a Veteran PG who can start or come off the bench and a upcoming star for cheap. I like Duhon/Session combo but I would love to see Miller/Session combo cause the TO ratio is low and Miller is durable he hasn’t missed a game in 2 seasons, he manages the game, and he will make everyone around him better flat out look what he did for Philly. Sessions jumpshot might be iffy but imagine him and Nate as backups thats too much to handle to many scores. Chandler is playing the two this year and this is his coming out year as a Star. Lee will accept 8million and get a bonus in 2011. Nate maybe the odd man out in 2010 but he will not miss an opportunity to be a highlight film in NY. I think with this move the Knicks solidify a 5th 6th seed in the playoffs (provided our BIGS play BIG hence Curry). Good Move Knicks.
I'm for Sessions
I like Duhon but it seems that the staff don’t think he’s the man in terms of team leadership. A long-term contract with Sessions would help us build the team.
by upstateknickerbocker on Jul 21, 2009 8:17 PM EDT reply actions
i agree that sessions is an upgrade over duhon
but seriously guys. u really want to give him a big contract? duhon is gone after next year. i was never comparing the two. i would just rather ride out duhon and resign nate because we have sooo much talent and it doesnt make sense if all these lottery picks keep gettin their minutes stolen by all these free agents. and again numbers dont mean anything. marbury crawford randoplh quentin etc. on paper that year we were like 150points a game typa lineup. numbers dont mean anything. anyone with a brain should understand that the road to a championship is teamwork and good coaching. give gallo and wilson some time. i have a pretty good feeling that they are going to be better then ramon and much cheaper and lucrative to lebron. no disrespect to ramon. i also think hes pretty good but you dont have to jump at every chance you get. isiah has given us enough trades and signings to cover the better part of 4 years for most low budget teams. we dont need to make another splash. have some faith guys let the youngins play!!1 =]
nate is not going to be the point guard of the future
he is a 6th man, he is scoring of the bench not a floor general. If we do not pick up sessions then pg is just another position that will be a void in 2010 and it can continue to be a need for us.
Sessions could provide much needed consistency for us. Waiting it out only goes so far. While 2010 is the goal, without a lottery pick next year Walsh knows he still has to put a team on the floor this season and try and get something done.
this move will make this team better and future knicks teams better which is why walsh is pursuing him.
"if it aint broke, dont break it"
I suppose list form would be the most efficient way to do this.
1. 26 million is hardly a “big contract.”
2. Which lottery picks are getting their minutes stolen by Sessions? Nate? Now that we’ve drafted Ghostface Douglas, isn’t it becoming clear to you that Nate Robinson is NOT a point guard?
3. “Numbers don’t mean anything.” No.
4. The road to a championship IS teamwork and good coaching. So, with your proposition that we resign Nate and have him run point (seeing as you said “i would just rather ride out Duhon and resign Nate”), you expect Nate to be the main distributor on a Championship team? He wouldn’t even pass the ball to Gallo last year.
5. “Give gallo and wilson some time.” Not only does signing Sessions not interfere with Gallo and Wilsons’ progressions, it gives them a first-rate distributor to develop.
6. Signing Sessions would not be “making a splash.” It would be stealing a top-flight but overlooked free agent.
7. Sessions is 23. Signing him would be the definition of “letting the youngins play.”
I’m just sayin’.
"I'll probably go get lifted right now with Greg. Hey, and come back tomorrow and try to get another win."
-Renaldo
by solanumbrella on Jul 21, 2009 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions
nobody expects nate to be a pg
idk what he is but he is definitely talented.
i dont think nate is the pg on a championship team but i dont see sessions there either.
idk. i just have a gut feeling that this is a bad idea.
i could definitely be wrong though. but idk id rather just leave the team the way it is now.
by karamjitm9090 on Jul 22, 2009 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions
i'm aorry i stopped reading
because you definitely said you want to ride out duhon. where i’m from, you made everybody laugh.
twitter.com/aighttho
Sessions jumper
It seems pretty clear that Sessions would be an upgrade over Duhon. Peeps posted numbers already and per min stats, etc. etc. The age difference is another indicator. I wouldn’t mind Andre Miller, but a blossoming player like Sessions will come cheaper and might turn out much better over the years. Remember, we have 2010 in mind and the guys we want DONT want to rebuild. So get one of the biggest breakouts of last season your team to show we are trying to win some games this year.
I think Sessions is better shooter than his numbers show too. His 3s were way low, but the bucks went through all sorts of injuries last year and Session was their #2 option many nights. Teams just D’d up Jefferson and forced Sessions to shoot.
Maybe in a system with other guys who can score will give Sessions more open looks. He shoots well at the line and it seems most guys who hit a high % of FTs can hit the 3s too.
Buy the way though…NY is walkin a foolish line by waiting to see what Miller says before they go after Sessions. Miller wont take the MLE and they know it. Sessions could get swept up by another team if we can’t make up our damn minds.
by Chris Child's Fist on Jul 22, 2009 11:00 AM EDT reply actions
i think miller is the perferred player
NOT BY ME! but still.
if there was a two person draft for those two players and walsh had the first pick. i’m fairly certain walsh would go after miller first and sessions second. and whoever picked second would be so ecstatic that walsh made the wrong choice that they would have a seizure and die from head trauma within minutes.
twitter.com/aighttho
maybe
if money wasnt an issue. I agree Walsh would get dupped. Why would NY want to bring in a young, talented guard a year before he breaks out fully and gets signed to a contract twice the size of what he can be signed for this year?
by Chris Child's Fist on Jul 22, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
uh oh
David Aldridge is reporting this morning that the Knicks are no longer pursuing Sessions. He says they don’t want to tie up their cap space for next year.
Hope this isn’t true and that NY is just playing down their interest to keep the tag low. Sessions doesn’t seem to have many teams chasing him… sounds like the Clips, Ok City, and of course, Milwaukee. Though all of those teams are well set at PG so that doesn’t really make much sense to me.
http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/david_aldridge/07/22/aldridge.0722/index.html
by Chris Child's Fist on Jul 23, 2009 11:46 AM EDT reply actions
I would be bummed if this turned out to be true. Sessions makes perfect sense for the Knicks and could be a real steal if they get signed to a long-term contract. He needs to get better on the 3-ball, sure, but the man can play and in D’antoni’s system would be a double-digit assist man.
To the folks who love Nate…I agree, the man is likable…and Krypto-Nate was priceless…but the Knicks want to win basketball games, and no matter what you do it’s not realistic to proceed with a 5’9" shooting guard.
"Give me chonchon."
by Slowpoke Rodriguez on Jul 24, 2009 3:23 AM EDT up reply actions
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