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Around SBN: This Should Encourage Juan Mata

Too soon to call for D'Antoni's head?




We were projected to be an 8th seed at the worst, even by ESPN. We have Amar'e Stoudemire in the paint every single and yet are forcing him to go 1-on-5 every time Felton runs the PnR.  Jump for some more loosely scattered ramblings about our team.

Star-divide

Look, I know we're only a couple games into the season, but we're not playing baseball here. It's going to be extremely tough to come back to .500, let alone make the playoffs. We've had a stretch of 4 games against EASY opposition-we've lost against an Iguodala-less Sixer's team, a Buck's team we hoped to win against and gotten embarrased by the likes of Minnesota, Golden State and a 2-5 Rockets team. Something's gotta give.

 

We started off the season 3-2, and were competitive in both our losses. Just like you guys mentioned-this team was fun to watch. We were defending with gusto and even though we had offensive shortcomings, we blamed them on the ineffective shooting of Gallo. Yet it's becoming clear that we are currently one of the worst teams in the East. We play with what seems to be absolutely no offensive scheme and just ask players to chuck up 3's, most of whom shouldn't be attempting so many 3's in the first place. Our defense is terrible and Amar'e is getting frustrated. The team obviously isn't functioning as a unit out there, and it's either because D'Antoni doesn't instruct them to or they don't believe in what he's preaching. Frankly, I don't know what's worse.

 

And what does Pringles do in the post-game interviews? He laughs. Blames the team. Never himself. He has yet to realize that this is not 2008 or 2009. We have a team assembled to win. Now. Stoudemire's talents aren't being used at all, and we're asking him to be a creator rather than a shooter. Gallo is taking less shots a game than Chandler. D'Antoni seems to want to force the system down the player's throats and hope they adjust rather than tweaking it and playing to the player's strengths. I'm not going to debate whether or not D'Antoni was a good coach, or whether SSOL is a fluke or mistake. But our team is not being coached right now. We pass the ball to a player, Amar'e usually, and 4 players watch him try to score against the whole defense. Having a lack of shooters on the team is something that should be causing D'Antoni to tweak the system, rather than put the blame on players for missing shots they shouldn't even be taking in the first place. We need a real coach. Now.

 

Now obviously, some of the blame has to be placed on the players. TD can't keep shooting like this. Gallo has to try and be more active when he doesn't have the ball. Even though it's probably not all his fault, Felton is suckin at the PnR. But I can't help overlook the fact that we have extreme talent on this team. Talent that can secure a 5-6th seed playoff birth if all goes right. And yet we're the laughingstock of the NBA. Well, at least we'll have a high lottery pick next year if anything. Oh wait. Damn....

 

I know there isn't a huge market for potential candidates, but I'd even be fine with Mike Brown coaching us for the rest of the season. We have a good team here. Please, for the love of God, let's not waste another season because D'Antoni's too proud to admit his shortcomings. Fire him Donnie.

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Too soon?

Yes.

But its a thought. I do disregard the past 2 seasons, they were indeed a waste and basically designed to be so.

But I think he does have till 1/1/11 to bring it together and start looking like a team for 4 quarters.

After that, then yea…put em on blast.

I think Pringles himself said that if 2010-11 aint successful, he’s resigning anyway. We’ll see.

This sucks, but in hindsight it was dumb to expect a lot out of a team with so much roster turnover, regardless of talent.

The Heat aren’t playing well either, and they had visions of 70 wins. Patience is a vitue, even if its like torture.

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Nov 15, 2010 9:38 AM EST reply actions  

The question is

Will 1/1/11 be too late? Cause if we keep playing like this, we will have absolutely no shot at the playoffs. Worse than that, probably, is the fact that Carmelo might not want to come here anymore and might sign an extension with the Nets or anybody else.

The problem with comparing us to the Heat is that while we’ve won 3 games, they were against terrible teams (Toronto, Washington) or we had amazing luck shooting the ball (against Chicago). Now we’re not even beating the bad teams, and getting completely outclassed by (on paper) better teams. Miami has routed the games they’ve won and come close in their losses. They’re a PG and decent paint presence away from being almost unbeatable. I know I might be exaggerating and I know we can’t compare out ambitions to Miami’s, but still. 5-4 (or 6-4) is easier to climb out of and prove yourself in the playoffs than 3-7 is. Especially if there have been very little flashes of good play or one problem that needs to be fixed. We’re not being coached right now, and that summarizes a lot of problems that probably aren’t going to get fixed in the near future if Pringles is HC.

I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.

Vince Lombardi

by moose35 on Nov 15, 2010 10:08 AM EST up reply actions  

the only way we'll know its too late

is by waiting, which I can be you can bet they will.

What will a scheme chage do? Didn’t work for Terry Porter or whever it ws that took over for Pringles. Or maybe something different then this 7SOL will work for these guys? I dunno

All I know is that the PnR is hte key to this O. ITs not some mythical beast that is just impossible for only a select few. Chris Duhon did it. Felton can do it, its just gonna take time.

Its not just those 2 also, its other guys who need to maintain that spacing

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Nov 15, 2010 10:29 AM EST up reply actions  

that's one problem tho....

there is alot more problems with this team than just the PnR….

by Jason Bee on Nov 15, 2010 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

no PnR players...

a motion offense would maximize our talent, but d’antonis too married to his “philosophy”. run the weave, keep guys moving and the ball moving, make back cuts, drive and kick, alley oops and back door passes. we’re athletic, but not smart enough for the PnR. we don’t have the shooters, or the PG to run the PnR… but we do have slashers and finishers.

so get with it mike… or get gone.

by bucketsncents on Nov 15, 2010 8:15 PM EST up reply actions  

huh?

“smart enough”? I learned the PnR when i was like 9…you don’t need to be that smart to run it; its one of the most basic plays in basketball

Donnie's bout to beat the NBA game like he got a cheat code

by Kupe on Nov 15, 2010 10:49 PM EST up reply actions  

the problem is

it becomes alot more difficult to get off the PNR when

1) the defense is keying in on it

2) players aren’t in sync

3) there’s no additional threat because nothing else is going on with the offense

What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!

by Lord Smackington on Nov 16, 2010 10:00 AM EST up reply actions  

Two out of those 3 are the coach’s fault…maybe if he designed an offense with plays other than a PnR 1 & 3 wouldn’t happen

Donnie's bout to beat the NBA game like he got a cheat code

by Kupe on Nov 16, 2010 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

plus Miami lost

to three REALLY good teams….

by Jason Bee on Nov 15, 2010 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

too late for what

if we dont make the playoffs, is everything lost?

if we miss by 3 games, should we start all over?

The playoffs is the goal, but Mike D should have this season to get the team in gear. A hot ending could push a team into the 8 spot, as it really looks like the bottom of the east playoff bracket is gonna suck.

I am a fan of both the mets and knicks... so just kill me now.

by gbaked on Nov 15, 2010 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

if we don't make playoffs

I think the direction of this franchise should be questioned.

the players brought in, the coach, our draft strategy, rebuilding strategy as a whole.

I mean if we have another losing season I know I myself can wear that and hope for the best next year but our ineptitude is wearing on alot of fans and honestly I wouldn’t blame some young dudes for jumping ship or even the older heads if they stopped watching.

What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!

by Lord Smackington on Nov 15, 2010 3:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I think any playoff talk BEFORE January is really unneccesary

We could lose every damn game up until January and still have a shot to make the playoffs. You’re not eliminated in an 82 game season after the 1st 25 games. ESPECIALLY in the East where teams essentially have to be .500 to qualify. Stop that mess.

"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire

by Chris Child's Fist on Nov 16, 2010 1:25 PM EST up reply actions  

true

but in the past, bad starts and losses generally stayed with the team and lingered destroying confidence. I mean everyone would say all the right things but you could see in their faces they were defeated.

now I know this is a “new” team but we don’t really look “new” and I’m worried about complacency and guys preemptively throwing in the towel because they figure the games don’t matter at this point.

I totally get what ur saying though, and in general a start like this is miniscule over the course of an 82 game season.

What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!

by Lord Smackington on Nov 16, 2010 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

it should be noted here

with all this playoff talk that the current 8 seed belongs to Cleavland, with their 4-5 record.

So its not like we are that far off at 3-7

I am a fan of both the mets and knicks... so just kill me now.

by gbaked on Nov 16, 2010 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

"start looking like a team for 4 quarters."

We don’t play defense ever. So how are we going to look like a team in anything but spurts. I think D’Antoni is a fine coach, but this run and gun scheme is not good for a complete team nor is it good for developing young talent.

Do we even have defensive drills in practice? Or do we just have 50 basketballs lying everywhere and people just come in and shoot from wherever until it’s time to leave?

Personally, I don’t think D’Antoni is going to change his scheme so the sooner we get rid of him the better as we have a young core but they will never gel or develop without a coach better at developing said young talent.

by Timmaht on Nov 15, 2010 10:09 AM EST reply actions  

the thing is...

they did play defense for those first few games. They were leading the league in blocked shots, remember?

It wasn’t just that, they took charges and got in passing lanes and made some nice steals. They actually still kinda do that, but they don’t finish on the fast break (mainly cuz Toney Douglas just is flat out bad at it.).

Turiaf is our defensive “anchor”. Kinda crazy to call him that, but he really is and he really is pretty damn good at it.

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Nov 15, 2010 10:17 AM EST up reply actions  

.. agree and MikeD is trying his best to screw ronnie up too

Mike on Turiaf:

“At the beginning of the year I didn’t think he was that important,” D’Antoni said. “But as it goes on he’s played a big role.”

Nice job, Coach!

by cynickfan on Nov 15, 2010 10:37 AM EST up reply actions  

this is just so comical

and quite frankly, shows your absolute ignorance about what you are talking about.

Do we even have defensive drills in practice? Or do we just have 50 basketballs lying everywhere and people just come in and shoot from wherever until it’s time to leave?

All preseason the team was talking about the D drills. Mike D talks about it every week on his MSG show.

This is a brand new team with an insane amount of young players. Not to mention our D has been in the middle of the road all season (not "We don’t play defense ever).

I dont think its a huge coincidence that as soon as our best defensive big gets hurt, we start playing much worse D.

I am a fan of both the mets and knicks... so just kill me now.

by gbaked on Nov 15, 2010 2:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Its not that comical. Do you watch the games? Because I don’t think any other team in the league gives up as many uncontested lay-ups and wide open jumpers. Yeah, we block some shots now and then. But we just flat out give away FAR too many possessions. And it seems like just about any team can knuckle down and put up a 30 point quarter on us whenever they feel like it.

by Crackback on Nov 15, 2010 5:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I honestly feel that the "D'Antoni doesn't preach defense at all" scheme is extremely tired and a bogus argument

In fact, when i hear someoen use a line like that or in a similar vein, I immediately dismiss them as people who are just regurgitating what they have been told years ago. If you watch this team, they absolutely play defense and good defense too! Just because a score reaches 100+ pts doesn’t mean the defense sucks. It can also mean that a quick pace led to more scoring opportunities.

Actually… our defense this year is NOT the problem. Our offense is. ironic.

"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire

by Chris Child's Fist on Nov 16, 2010 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

even more ironic

is that if our offense improves and the pace is quickened…the other team will get more opportunities and more points will be scored on us as well….in other words as our offense improves our defense will probably get worse…

by Jason Bee on Nov 16, 2010 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Not worse, we'll just give up more points

That’s why points allowed per game is really irrelevant to the quality of your team defense. Measuring points allowed per 100 possessions puts all teams, fast-paced or slow, on an even footing. By that metric, we’re currently 11th in the league.

by flossy on Nov 16, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

This is one of the dumbest things I've ever read.

Its like saying that wins and losses aren’t true measurement of how good a team is.

by Crackback on Nov 16, 2010 3:09 PM EST up reply actions  

no its not

its not saying that at all.

I am a fan of both the mets and knicks... so just kill me now.

by gbaked on Nov 16, 2010 4:18 PM EST up reply actions  

That's not what I said at all

Think about it. More possessions in a game = more opportunities for the other team to score. No matter how good your team defense, you will give up more points if you play at a breakneck pace and shoot quick vs. if you walk the ball up and use 20 seconds of clock every time down the floor. Measuring points allowed per 100 possessions just adjusts for pace.

But don’t take my word for it… ask anyone who uses advanced stats.

by flossy on Nov 16, 2010 6:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Perhaps. But when I watch the games this year I havent really seen a breakneck pace, as initiated by our offense. If anything, its our piss-poor transition D thats leading to quicker and more opportunities for opponent attempts.

Anyone watching these games cannot possibly say that our defense is playing ok.

by Crackback on Nov 17, 2010 11:31 AM EST up reply actions  

right

giving up 120 points is not playing good D

by Jason Bee on Nov 17, 2010 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd agree with that for the most part.

Of course, if we are scoring 130pts, then I could give a damn :-)

But the previous point that a good defense isn’t necessarily so easy to pin down by the amount of points given up is quite on target.

There is a great analogy from baseball. Felix Hernandez just won the Cy Young for best pitcher in the American League. Well, dude was 13-12. That record doesn’t look like anything NEAR the best pitcher in the AL either. Especially up against David Price (19-6) and CC Sabathia (21-7).

But there has been almost no controversy with the decision because according to advanced stats, Felix was absolutely the best pitcher.

So basically, while our defense isn’t as good as Boston’s or Miami’s or LA’s or San Antonio’s, it actually IS pretty solid even if we end up giving up a lot of points.

"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire

by Chris Child's Fist on Nov 20, 2010 6:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Personally…

I didn’t project the Knicks to be an 8th seed…I expected them to have a losing record and miss the playoffs (unless Melo was acquired of course)….however, they have looked worse than I could have imagined, and while the players are at fault, most of the blame should fall on the coach….they don’t seem prepared to play the opponent, no in game adjustments are made, the defense still sucks (players are having career games against the Knicks) , the shot selection is horrible, there is NO motivation (the team pretty much gave up in the 4th last night) and on and on. Having said all that…dantoni will at least get the whole season to coach this team…

by Jason Bee on Nov 15, 2010 11:07 AM EST reply actions  

I didn't see us setting the east on fire

but I didn’t think we’d be this bad. I never thought an 8th seed was written in stone but I did at least think it was possible.

I think the swap so to speak btwn STAT and Lee was a wash and we didn’t gain or lose much overall from that, I thought this before the trades even took shape but I thought Felton would be the real difference that would push us in a positive direction.

Now not only do we have Fellton but a steal of a draft pick in Fields and a promising talent in Mosgov, so yes…this team should be better and ur 100% right the players do have to play the game but one can’t help but wonder what the hell is the coach doing (or not doing) that these guys can’t beat teams they should be beating.

What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!

by Lord Smackington on Nov 16, 2010 10:15 AM EST up reply actions  

umm...Mike Brown

srry, can’t do it…that’s Mr pass the ball to Lebron and things will be okay. I don’t think this team would do anything differently with him on board. Really, no joke, I think he’s coaching high school football right now…seriously.

I don’t like the job Pringles is doing right now but like you said the problem is getting a replacement in the middle of the season. Plus this team was supposed to be tailored for his “style” of b-ball, whoever comes in has to to cook up their own recipe using someone else’s ingredients. It can be done…but can it be done well?

What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!

by Lord Smackington on Nov 15, 2010 11:13 AM EST reply actions  

Well

Wouldn’t you have the exact same strategy if you were Mike Brown? He’s mainly a defensive minded coach, and I think a lot of good things can come from that. Is it because I want a total 180 of what we’re doing now and not thinking rationally? Maybe, but it’s worth a though.

This team is suited for an up tempo style of play, but not D’Antoni’s style of play. We simply don’t have enough shooters on this team to suit his style. Granted, if we do get Carmelo, I take everything back. But D’Antoni isn’t the only coach in the league who can tailor to our player’s strengths. Being athletic doesn’t mean we can’t actually have a half-court game.

I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.

Vince Lombardi

by moose35 on Nov 15, 2010 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

oh, I agree with ya

it’s just at this point in the middle of the season I don’t see us with any better options than Dantoni. If we were gonna can him it shoulda been in the off-season but Walsh rightfully wanted to give him a shot with this “new” team.

I know it was just an example but Mike Brown aint gonna make u feel any better

What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!

by Lord Smackington on Nov 15, 2010 11:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Mike D has done enough

and has enough coaching cred to at least get this season to get this team playing the right way.

I am a fan of both the mets and knicks... so just kill me now.

by gbaked on Nov 15, 2010 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

To answer your question..

Yes it’s very soon to call for his head. It’ll continue to be too soon until the end of the season because there is NO coach that can come in a save our season. Van Gundy isn’t happening, Mark Jackson might happen but is inexperienced, Mike Brown needs Lebron… There are no coaches unless you want Jon Gruden or Bill Cowher but i’m pretty sure those guys enjoy football. Giving up on D’Antoni means giving up on this season, if you’re fine with that than go right ahead, fact is we’re on a 5 game losing streak, we can go on a 10 game winning streak from here on, no one knows. Teams have losing streaks all the time, ours is in the beginning of the season which makes our record look ugly. D’Antoni may have this team in a hole but who’s to say he wont get us out of it?

"Dedication To The Don" Most Popular Post Of All Time On P&T. I Am Honored

by MikeTheIntern on Nov 15, 2010 12:15 PM EST reply actions  

i am with you

its crazy to talk about firing Mike D already.

If they came out and played these 5 bad games, then followed with the first 5 games… people would be like… wow they are starting to come around.

This team is SOOOOOO YOUNG!!!!! and Mike D plays a system that is different then they have ever done. Knickerblogger showed a stat the other day how when they actually play the SSOL way, they are doing well. Its when they fall off the system and start chucking shots and dragging out the clock that they fail.

Rome was not built in a day. People need to take a puff and chill a little bit.

I am a fan of both the mets and knicks... so just kill me now.

by gbaked on Nov 15, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Its too soon to fire him. But its not too soon to critique him, and to start the rumblings.
D’Antoni seems to want to force the system down the player’s throats and hope they adjust rather than tweaking it and playing to the player’s strengths.

BINGO.
He needs to coach what he has and make the most of it. This young team needs some structure. You have to have some semblance of an offensive set in the half-court. Having at least 3 guys absolutely clueless about what to do every time we’re in a half-court offense is a complete abdication of responsibility. And the same goes for the defense. With all the length and athleticism we have, we should be much better defensively. But there too we lack structure and clearly defined roles.

MDA is not coaching at all. He’s watching them drown and telling everybody that they can’t swim, instead of jumping in the pool and teaching them. He seems to be more of a theorist than he is a real coach. 7SOL has yet to win an NBA title.

by Crackback on Nov 15, 2010 1:48 PM EST reply actions  

yup

.

MDA is not coaching at all. He’s watching them drown and telling everybody that they can’t swim, instead of jumping in the pool and teaching them.

that is a good way of putting it….

by Jason Bee on Nov 15, 2010 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

whoa

that seems like the perfect description to me…get wet Dantoni!!! get wet!!!

What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!

by Lord Smackington on Nov 15, 2010 3:03 PM EST up reply actions  

pause or let it ride out?

Donnie's bout to beat the NBA game like he got a cheat code

by Kupe on Nov 15, 2010 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

eh, too tired to care

there should be an auto pause

What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!

by Lord Smackington on Nov 15, 2010 5:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Pringles never coached a real young team

he was used to veterans that know things our youngsters dont…….let them try to gel…and come january really evaluate his performance…..then check that melo situation out….maybe nash ends up on the trading block by then who knows…

but firing dantoni is the worst and last option….

by hopelessknickfan on Nov 15, 2010 9:48 PM EST reply actions  

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