Let's stop
by moose35 on Dec 13, 2010 11:53 AM EST
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Please guys. I've been lurking here since 08/09, so I know exactly what we've had to go through in order to be in this place. We've gone from the laughing-stock of the NBA to a team that everybody's starting to respect and take notice of. Now why don't some of you want to trade for Melo?
Look, there is no doubt that we'd have to give up pieces in order to get our "Big 2". The trade would have to be centered around Gallo and will probably include pieces like Chandler or Fields (and Curry, obviously). We'd all love to see them blossom into stars that we ourselves drafted. And while there's no doubt that they all have potential, they are a long time away from even being considered potential All-Stars. Yes, they would be important role players on a championship squad, with the potential to be a 2nd or 3rd option. But what some of you here fail to see is that we'd be getting a 26 year old potential All-Star that wants to be here. We'd have a scorer that can immediately take our half-court sets to new heights, something which is a huge weakness for the Knicks. Many of you complain about Amar'e playing too many minutes, especially in crunch-time. Well if Carmelo came here, we'd have 2 lights-out scorers that compliment each other perfectly. Granted, it's not a Bryant/Gasol type of tandem, but Melo will draw double-teams and leave Amar'e open to rampage inside the paint, and in doing so, spread the whole floor, leaving open looks for Felton or whoever else would stay.
The problem I have with most of your opinions regarding Carmelo (Rorschach, mindfeck, etc.) is that, from what I've been reading, you think this level of play will continue. It will not. The positive surprises on this team far encompass the negatives. The only improvements I could think of is Randolph playing at least at the level he did in GS (highly unlikely) or Gallo and Ill Will becoming consistent. But Amar'e is playing a huge amount of minutes, and he single-handedly won us that Denver game. Felton's been playing out of his mind as well. Both are, however complaining of soreness, and we're only 20+ games into the season.
So should we get a back-up PG or C instead? It sounds like the logical step Donnie should take. What would, however, our potential be if we do get those pieces? A 4-5th seed, at the max. Now let's say we wait for next year's free agency and sign somebody like Nene, or anybody else, to fill our needs. What is our potential then? We still wouldn't be a title contender. And that, I think is the problem. How about we get Melo, automatically become a top 4 seed in the East for years to come, and worry about what we need to do to upgrade later? Wouldn't that be a better way of thinking? A big body is easy to find, and people forget we have a certain Russian with confidence issues putting up DNP-CD every night. Getting somebody to spell Ray-Ray can be done in the draft (we actually have a 1st round pick this year!!) or through a trade. Get the big pieces first, then fill the holes. Not the other way around.
I know some of you guys are going to butcher me for my opinion. Just remember, that we got STAT so we can win titles. Not to merely be a decent team. I think we've been traumatized (if that's the right word) from the last decade so bad, that we are content with a team that has is a bit worse than it record actually shows. Just remember, after this season, we have 4 more years of STAT, the last of which, arguably, won't be as dominant from him. This chance doesn't come around too often, so let's act now. And let's stop fretting about Melo's "intangibles", or lack thereof. Please.
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Let's REALLY stop.
Just let Donnie take care of it, the man’s brought us this far. I’m willing to bet he’s got our best interest at heart and mind…his damn job depends on it. We get Melo, then great, we don’t and wait then GREAT TOO. This is our first year in relevance in ten damn years (and we’re just 25 games in!!!!), you can wait one more. Go out and enjoy cheering on our team!
In Donnie we trust.
by $100M Contract on Dec 13, 2010 12:14 PM EST reply actions
You said potential all star
He’s a proven all star
@therealzlander
by zlander on Dec 13, 2010 12:15 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Yea, typo
I mean proven, sorry about that.
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.
Vince Lombardi
Title aspirations were never realistic for this year anyway
What’s the point in not waiting for free agency again? Did you get spooked by that bullshit Isola article where he says that Melo would take a trade to the Lakers or Bulls? No reason, none whatsoever to trade for Melo now. We got a feel-good team this year and you’re pissing on the parade.
Pissing on the parade?
No, I think it’s either NY or Denver. However, it’s been said that he’s going to take the extension, whether that means getting traded or staying in Denver. We can only follow sources which we don’t know whether they’re legit or not, but that is what’s being reported.
What good does it do us to have a “feel-good team”? I want us to win championships, and even though I know it’s not happening this year (not that I though we would be, obviously), I think it was meant to happen during STAT’s time here. How long do we wait before we go for the title? How many more seasons are we going to have with no title aspirations? Since there’s no title aspirations this season, getting Carmelo now, letting the guys get a bit of playoff experience, maybe even get out of the 1st round and then building around that is better than trying to find the ideal role players for this team. It’s all a matter of opinion, whether or not you think getting a C/backup PG would be enough to put us over the top. I don’t.
Like somebody on another blog said: You build the house first, and then you put the furniture in. If you want to use that analogy, then the Knicks have a lot of really nice furniture but an unstable house.
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.
Vince Lombardi
Why make any deals yet, large or small?
We’re just past 25% of the way into the season. At this point, you have to feel good that the weaknesses we’re all concerned with at C and backup PG are roles filled by guys whose best days are ahead of them in Mozgov and Toney.
We all want to see the Knicks win the title, but trading for Melo now or in February is desperate and unnecessary. If you’re hellbent on trading away some combination of Chandler or Gallo or Randolph, it shouldn’t be for a player who will only cost us money 8 months from now.
Also, I haven’t seen anywhere that Melo is going to take the extension no matter what. If he was, then he would have done it already. That future salary wouldn’t affect his cap number for this year.
I like melo, i really do.
But I’m not boasing n toasting about bringing him now. Its not really about giving up young guys who we’ve grown somewhat attachted to on this team. but the different parts they add. Defense, court awareness and flexibility is what fields chandler, and gallo bring. Im not saying we shouldnt give up them for melo, b/c Melo IS an all star. But we’d have to go out and find those missing pieces again.
Lets see how we fair against the top tier teams first before we all start making sign melo posts.
I thought these posts were supposed to come when we are struggling and losing. Not winning 12 of 13 games.
"they try to do what he do, and been where he's been, but they get folded in two.....he's the dude"
and about doulbing melo
I dont remember seeing us double team him yesterday…..
"they try to do what he do, and been where he's been, but they get folded in two.....he's the dude"
In fairness
it was a four point win and pretty much any ones game. We also didn’t stop Melo. The guy had 31 &13 boards! Their no. 2 was Nene… not Amar’e.
"Umm - it was - you know - umm - a good game. You know."-
Patrick Ewing (my Knick Hero)
It wasn't a good game for him
but it hasn’t been a good season for him. No matter how hard you try, you aren’t gonna be yourself if you’re unhappy with where you are
"I feel like this: You can't hate me." -Toney Douglas
We let Melo beat us and doubled Nene to keep Amare out of foul trouble
"I feel like this: You can't hate me." -Toney Douglas
actually we kind of did once
I know because the denver announcers pointed it out on my lp feed and I rewound and played it over to make sure. Felton did kind of make a move towards Melo who passed the ball before Felton got close enough to make trouble. Then of course at the end of the game when Melo charged down into triple coverage and Gallo blocked his shot. Otherwise I didn’t see any extraordinary efforts to contain him.
The Landryman Can
I'm all for getting some better pieces and improving the team
But Melo isn’t someone who would help. He couldn’t get the Nuggets a win, he is inefficient, doesn’t play D. Nene is their best player. If you don’t believe me, you didn’t watch the game and haven’t tracked the Nuggets performance with him and without him.
Is Pau Gasol
Also a better player than Kobe?
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
by tanman5 on Dec 13, 2010 8:33 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
IF HE WANTS TO BE HERE
then he will be here, without breaking up the ‘pieces" that you summarily dismiss, but I value highly(Chandler, Gallo, Fields). If he is telling the Nuggets that he will only sign an extension if traded to the Knicks, why shouldn’t we underpay, not overpay?Who would trade for him and give up anything of real value if at years end he signs as a a free agent with the Knicks? Carmelo is holding all the cards. Denver has to get best deal possible but they are held hostage by his year end free agency. The Nets deal was a good fair offer, but if Melo won’t agree to an extension, it’s a disaster for Nets. So, let’s hold off and give as little as possible, or better yet, let season expire and sign him as a FA
by longsuffering but optimistic on Dec 13, 2010 12:59 PM EST reply actions
If Melo really wants to be here he should wait until after the season
and give us a nice hometown discount so his arrival doesn’t decimate the team. If the Big three can take less then so can Melo if he really wants to win.
The Landryman Can
if the Nets or anyone else are inclined to rent Melo for the rest of the year
let ‘em. More power to Denver if they can get something better for him. The end game is this; if Melo wants to be a Knick next year, he’ll be a Knick next year, regardless of where he plays the rest of this year.
and that's
you think this level of play will continue. It will not.
is the defeatist attitude, that needs to stop. Why will we stop playing as good? You don’t have an answer.
Enjoy the damn team. Hopefulyl Donnie has it in his brain that as long as the team keeps winning, no one is going anywhere. Since that doesn’t make sense.
I don’t care that he wants to come here. No one even knows for sure if he actually wants to come here anyway.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Why will we stop playing as good? You don’t have an answer.
er, this applies the other way around? Uncertainty of the future is not a valid affirmation of the status quo
"I feel like this: You can't hate me." -Toney Douglas
winning sucks, I know.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Dec 13, 2010 3:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
How is that a defeatist attitude?
How about I call your attitude overly-optimistic? We’re not a team that can regularly go on these kinds of streaks. And how about we stop being complacent about a team that just started to win. We have major flaws that are going to be exposed in the next couple of days, and I seriously dislike the opinion that we should stand pat when this kind of opportunity arises. We’re not forcing a max deal for Iguodala, this is Carmelo Anthony we’re talking about. Being complacent won’t bring us titles, and I doubt we even sniff the conference finals with this line-up+Nene (or whoever you want your C to be) plus some bench players.
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.
Vince Lombardi
by moose35 on Dec 13, 2010 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Bench players yes.
Break up the team, why?
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Finally a thread that welcomes the man.
I have no problem with the fans that don’t want Melo. Semsemma for instance is a perfect example. He doesn’t protest for Carmelo but he doesn’t try to say he’s a turd either. He gives the man respect so I take his opinion as a logical one.
There are others who completely blast him. These are the bias ones I rather pay no mind to. All they speak of is how bad of a fit he would be on this team but never acknowledge the good he would bring. You can show me his TS% and all that crap but Carmelo could play dead in the center of the court for the entire game and people would still triple team him and you know what? He would still score 30!
I wont even get into the things he could do for this team. Just simply stating that the blind hate for the man is un-welcomed. I respect the game of basketball and I look at the good and the bad of particular situations. I’m not gonna jump off a bridge if we dont get the guy but he could definitely help in plenty of ways. I hope you guys realize that.
"Dedication To The Don" Most Popular Post Of All Time On P&T. I Am Honored
Because the only reason FOR getting him is:
“I like how he looks when he plays basketball. He takes a lot of shots and therefore gets a lot of points. He won a championship in college. People consider him a star because he scores a lot of points.” I don’t think he’s terrible. He’s above average in a number of areas. His ability to get to the line helps others. Maybe he could improve the offense a bit, though that’s debatable since he’s a less efficient scorer than any Knicks starter and turns it over much more than anyone but Stoudemire. If he was 10 million a year and we didn’t have to give up anyone or lose flexibility, I’d welcome him to the team. But the Knicks would be much better off with Nene or Marc Gasol.
Marc Gasol
I love everyone’s rampant obsession with Marc Gasol…a player that’s not very athletic and can’t run up and down the court very well. Do you guys understand what Dantoni’s system would do to this guy? He’d slow down everything.
I said it before and I’ll say it again. You fill holes like that with the draft and the MLE each year. We aren’t going to acquire a Carmelo in the draft or with the MLE.
The odds of acquiring a solid backup pg and a center through the draft or the MLE are monstrously higher than acquiring a Melo.
With the rationale used by many on this site, Kobe Bryant himself wouldn’t be a good fit for the Knicks.
Last year, Melo finished two spots behind Amare in PER rankings.
Durant isn’t overly efficient either, guess we wouldn’t want him too right?
Melo finished ahead of Steve Nash, Kobe Bryant, Brandon Roy, Billups, Garnett, Deron Williams, Joe Johnson, Rajon Rondo, Nene (the God of posting and toasting according to some), Boozer, AND EVEN MARC GASOL (OMG!) in PER rankings for last season.
There are multiple players in that list alone I’d give a max contract to despite them not being the gods of efficiency you all want.
Just give up with this already…you now the NBA is getting ridiculous when Knick fans are saying they don’t want Carmelo Anthony. Good grief.
by James Angelo on Dec 13, 2010 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
PER rewards high usage players
He wouldn’t be as high usage in NY. Durant is much more efficient than Carmelo and has improved each year. Carmelo hasn’t improved any year.
You really think Marc Gasol would slow the team down? Mozgov, Shaq, Diaw were all fast enough for D’Antoni.
Shaq
Was not a great success for the Suns so idk what you’re talking about. Mozgov is extremely athletic, once again idk what you’re talking about. Diaw is 6"8 so once again…idk what you’re talking about. We’d be better off going small and having amare play the 5 than bring a slow nonathletic center to this team.
I guess Player Efficiency Rankings aren’t a good enough efficiency ranking for you all……
Maybe some of you have a problem with Melo’s attitude or persona and you just won’t admit it. He’s a bad boy thug with tattoos that doesn’t fit the pretty boy picture Gallo is throwing out there. I’m not really sure what you guys want. Guys like Melo can thrive in New York, this stage is absolutely perfect for him. When the best players in the game all say Melo is among them, I respect that opinion more than a blogger and advanced stats.
by James Angelo on Dec 13, 2010 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
Mozgov is slow, Turiaf is slow, Shaq is slow, Diaw is fat and slow. The suns offense was #2 in the NBA with Shaq and he had a great season. They were hurt by having no defense from any other position. Also, Terry Porter was a terrible coach.
I like Wilson Chandler, so obviously it’s not appearances. I just don’t think Carmelo is worth the money and the trade assets. Players don’t know who’s the best. If they did, then why was Isiah Thomas such a bad GM?
And moneyball doesn't always work
You ask any GM in the league if they think Marc Gasol or Carmelo would be a better addition to the Knicks. Overwhelmingly they’d say the same thing, you can find 7 footers that can rebound easier than you can find a Carmelo.
Mozgov is very quick for a 7 footer, and he’s extremely athletic for his size, so I have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.
I’m talking about players fearing facing Melo, the way Kobe was shitting his pants in the 2009 Western Conference Finals. Remember how Melo was there recently? Apparently no one else does.
Advanced stats said that Lebron and Wade wouldn’t be able to co-exist great because of their usage rates. I beg to differ, and that team is starting to show it.
by James Angelo on Dec 13, 2010 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
Their PERs are down
So yes they can coexist, but not as well as their PERs last season would suggest. And yeah, the Knicks really feared Melo and shitted their pants when they let Denver win. Oh wait.
I dont know if I agree with that
7 foot centers who can rebound and play smart ball are very difficult to find. Pure scorers are much more abundant.
I WILL agree though that Carmelo Anthony is a rare talent in himself.
I dont think teams look at Marc Gasol as a cornerstone franchise player either. But if you can add him to a team who already has a #1 option, then I would absolutely give that a team a significant boost in terms of advancing deep into the playoffs. Marc Gasol is a very good player and he won’t require a lot of offensive touches.
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Dec 13, 2010 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
Great Post, My Dude.
I agree 100%.
Could Landry Fields be our Derek Jeter? Things that make you say HMMMM!!!!!!
STAT FOR MVP!!!!!!!
I really thought this post title meant it was a thread to remind us about clamoring for other players
What a letdown.
We are 16-9 and in the midst of an 8 game win streak. We have won 10-11 games in a row on the road too. we are beating teams that we should beat, and we have also beaten some very good teams (New Orleans, Denver). No, this isn’t the final product for a Knicks Championship, but if you are watching the games, you are noticing that this team is rapidly coming together and playing very solid basketball, night in, night out.
I’m not saying we shouldn’t pursue trades, but what is it gonna take for you guys who are so insistent that we pull a trade and pull a trade NOW, that this team is NOT like other Knick teams???
Seriously. I am reading random comments about so-and-so being inconsistent, and how this team is inconsistent and how we probably shouldn’t stay this excited because we don’t have a trifecta of superstars and that is what we need to win now.
Wilson Chandler’s name comes up sometimes as an inconsistent guy. Really? Amar’e aside, has there even been a MORE consistent Knick this season?
Hey, Ray Felton sucks at the pick n’ roll… well, he figured it out, guys because i have watched him run it recently. And even without it, he is distributing the ball and racking up major assists.
I don’t want to get into each player right now, but my point is what is it going to take for you guys to say “Whoa… maybe we DON’T have to make a drastic move right now. Maybe this team can still grow significantly and we can actually afford to let teams come to US for our guys!” Guys, we are far from arriving, but can we relax and appreciate how well the Knicks are finally playing?!
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Dec 13, 2010 3:11 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
+1
There’s a place for trade rumors, but when they start making you look at our team so critically that you can’t appreciate them? When they start clouding your appreciation of how well the actual Knicks are playing? Then you have to let it go.
P&T does an admirable job of keeping game threads and recaps separate from the Melo rumors. The point is that people’s differing agendas just make fans argue with each other when we should all be appreciative of the team that we do have.
"I feel like this: You can't hate me." -Toney Douglas
Look Chris
I know the rumors and analysis is getting rampant, and I am a part of that. But I’d hate for us to become complacent with what we have now just because it’s refreshing to see us win. Yes, I love the fact that we’re winning. I love this team. But I do think it can be better, and I’d like the team to take a pro-active attitude when analyzing our next steps going forward. I’m not trying to “rain on the parade” like some comments have said. I repeat, it’s awesome to see us win after such a long time (feels like a lifetime) of being bottom feeders.
But I do feel that the “let’s not mess with the chemistry” argument is a result of becoming comfortable with our current streak. We were getting ready to fire Dantoni a couple weeks ago. And, again, not trying to sound like the biggest pessimist, we’ll probably be ready to trade Gallo/ fire DW/release Randolph after this tough stretch when we come back down to Earth.
I honestly think this team, as currently constructed, is a 50 win team. I’ve said it from the start of the season. But I want us to become even better.
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.
Vince Lombardi
I agree, but he's not advocating complacency
He said he’s open to trades. I agree with him when he says we should appreciate what we have and not let the trade rumors get in the way of that. Why argue over how much Chandler means to the team in the context of a potential trade to Denver when we can all agree he’s been great this season?
"I feel like this: You can't hate me." -Toney Douglas
Don't mess with chemistry argument
Is about this team looking like shit for the first dozen games or so. And how bringing in a player like Melo and sending out guys who’ve been in the middle of it would fuck up what is just starting to come together.
It's not that I want this team to stay as is.
But bringing in a superstar is going to cost us MULTIPLE players.
A one for one deal might not disrupt a team growing together so much as losing 3-4 players for that one player.
Also, I’m not looking at these players in such a way that after a handful of good games I only see them for their trade-value. That was last year. THIS year we might actually want this team to stay together for the most part.
And that is not being complacent at all. That’s sticking to the plan. If a good deal manifests, it manifests. But the Knicks are not in a position right now where we to be dangling our guys to every team. Save the desperation strategy for the Nets.
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Dec 13, 2010 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
I never said don't trade for Melo
my point is that the less we can give up the better. There are some people who think that if we give up two or even three rotation players for Melo that would make us a better team. We have enough expiring contracts from guys who are not playing. That should be our line in the sand. We will give Denver cap relief for Melo and that is all. A patient and steady hand wins the day.
by Robert Currence on Dec 13, 2010 5:27 PM EST reply actions
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Good post
But this is a bad title. The title bar of my window now says
“Lets stop- Posting and Toasting” which…no dude
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
by tanman5 on Dec 14, 2010 1:03 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
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