Can't we all get along?
Editor's Note: I'm Seth Rosenthal and I approve this post. Here's Mase, from the Fanposts.
Being a Knicks fan during the NBA Trade deadline over the past six or seven years has been a wild rollercoaster. There have been ups, there have been downs, there have also been exhausting rants, packs of cigarettes, teeth-gnashing, and one time I popped a blood vessel in my eyeball (when learning the Knicks had acquired Larry Hughes).
Even after all of this, I looked forward to discussing today's trade for Tracy McGrady's contract. Instead there has been in-fighting and name calling.
Not to sound like a dirty hippie, but can't we all just get along?
Donnie Walsh took a risk. He essentially surrendered three first round draft picks in order to get enough cap space to lure two mega free agents. He gave up on Jordan Hill, he took a page out of Isiah's book (the swapping picks phenomenon that killed the Knicks in 2006), and mortgaged another piece of the future (2012 pick). It was a hefty price, but he stuck with his plan: clear as much cap space as possible to roll the dice this summer.
A "plan" is something that Scott Layden never had, and a concept that Isiah Thomas never understood. You may like the plan, or you may hate the plan, but it's a plan. It's something that the Knicks haven't had since the Checketts/Grunfeld regime.
There will be a lot of uncertainty heading into the Summer of 2010. However, one thing I'm certain of is regardless of who comes and who goes, the Knicks will field their best team in the 2010-11 season in a decade. It's a decade that's included two playoff wins, ridiculous contracts, embarrassing trades, and the degradation of the Knicks franchise into a nationwide laughing stock. For so many years under Layden/Thomas, the Knicks kept digging themselves deeper and deeper into a crater. Now, if you squint, you can actually see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Ultimately, what Donnie did with all of this is give the Knicks a chance. Nothing more, nothing less - just a chance. A chance at signing two mega free agents, and turning this team into an NBA Championship contender overnight. All of the arguing over who the Knicks should sign, will LeBron leave Cleveland, is/isn't Chris Bosh superiorly week, will Mike D'Antoni DNP-CD Joe Johnson after two missed shots, etc. is pointless. Whatever happens, happens.
But, I'm happy today because this franchise is finally moving forward - something that I (and most of you) have been waiting to say for over a decade. Floundering, rebuilding on the fly, and taking on lucrative contracts for marginal players wasn't getting the Knicks anywhere. Now, at least the Knicks are going somewhere.
Hopefully it's back to the top.
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102 comments
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Comments
+1
apologize to anyone I offended..if I did.
I’ll turn all anger towards Chris Duhon.
I AM SOFA KING!!!
-Wei Todd Ed
All this arguing
Is totally harshing my Charles Oakley Boner
Got Hope?
Give Donnie Walsh his due. With his crafty maneuvering, he has at least assured that next year’s ‘bockers will not suck. Plus, they needn’t spend all their cash settling for the likes of Joe Johnson or Carlos Boozer. In the summer of 2011, there will be another batch of stars to chose from. If I were Mr. Walsh, I’d hold out for Chris Paul. Even if LeBron miraculously end up in NYC, this team has been lacking a world-class playmaker since….well, a looooong time.
JStarks, we just selected your comment as one of our 20 Blog Voices on the MCGrady Trade. Although I absolutely disagree with calling this desperation move crafty, we thought it was an opinion worth sharing. I’ll start throwing darts at it next week. LOL
Resident Incidental General Manager at Knicks Fanatics Blog
Just a couple posts on Sergio by us Kings fans:
on by the indomitable Ziller: http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2010/2/3/1290875/believing-or-not-believing-in
one fanpost: http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2010/2/1/1287741/sergio-el-grande
one response post to Seth: http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2010/2/18/1316829/expert-opinions-on-sergio-rodriguez
Personally, I hope Sergio plays well enough in NY to find a permanent home.
Another flaw in the human character is that everybody wants to build and nobody wants to do maintenance. Vonnegut
Thanks
This is good info. By the way, I think you got a good player in Carl Landry, and the Rockets fans say nice things about Dorsey.
i always thought dorsey was a monster
i guess he probably gets lost on defense a lot. otherwise there is no reason for him to be glued to the bench. BEAST!
and ice- good look on the links!
twitter.com/aighttho
http://aightthen.tumblr.com/
No, we’ve always had a chance and Isiah actually had a plan. See the first chapter of Bill Simmon’s book. His plan was better than Walsh’s; it was just executed worst than the Vietnam War. Walsh has no plan. He has a concept; an idea. What team is being built? Who is at point guard? Hell, what type of point guard will run this team? Now who are the two max players and what position do they play? Who is their back-up? Who is the rest of their team? Who is the center? Do we finally play defense or do our two max players defend all five positions? How old will we be again? Where do we get our cheap labor to support the expensive labor since we lose our draft picks? Since we’re going to do so damn good in 2011, what kind of protection was that we put on those picks? Oh, we’ll use that mid-level and million dollar exemption to build the team.
The price was not only high, but this was about as dumb a strategy as a GM can muster. Some keep saying wait until the summer of 2011, but the logic is clear. I said two years ago that this is exactly where we would be if he went down this road. The numbers didn’t work then and they still don’t if you are trying to build a team.
Try it yourself. Simple math and common sense guys. You’ve got to have 13 players on your roster. By the end of this fiasco of a season, we will have 4 (including Eddie Curry and 5 if you give Sergio the qualifying offer). So we are $32 million under the cap considering the low cap holds. Do we actually have enough for 7 professionals, 1 max player and 1 almost max player not David Lee?
Unless LeBron walks through those Garden gates this was a worst joke than being laid by Layden. This is one helluva risk, even Lloyds of London AIG wouldn’t insure.
Resident Incidental General Manager at Knicks Fanatics Blog
The Vietnam War
at least resulted in many more enemy deaths than American. What ws Isiah’s plan exactly? It was like he purposely overpaid mediocre to terrible players for the sake of it, when nobody else was even bidding for them. Steve Francis is one of the most inane trades one could ever do. And the two JJs? James in his BEST season didnt average more than 6/5 and Isiah gave him 30 million over 5 years because of 2 playoff series. There is no way to defend somebody with that kind of short-sightedness. Sample size and future production rather than past are some key points the SABR community emphasizes in baseball. These things can also be applied to the NBA and how to efficiently build a team. Isiah chose the worst path in all three categories and it dug the organization into an even deeper hole than Layden put it in. That was HARD work. I would be hard pressed to find a FO actor who destroyed both the past and the present for multiple franchises (CBA included) as much as Isiah did.
by MetsKnicksRutgers on Feb 18, 2010 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
As bad as Steve Francis trade
was I don’t put that on Isiah ledger that one was on the current coach of the Bobcats.
I hear people say this all the time
But that’s a cop out and Isiah PR damage control. At best, Isiah and Brown are equally responsible. Isiah can’t abdicate responsibility for that deal at all. I know that Isiah asked Brown if he thought it could work. Brown said sure. Why the hell wouldn’t he? it’s not like it was working before.
Thats like
blaming the Jays owners for the Wells signing an giving JP a pass. They both played a role.
by MetsKnicksRutgers on Feb 18, 2010 11:59 PM EST up reply actions
sure good points
but keep in mind, all of those questions you have don’t need to be addressed publicly. As nosey as we are, its really not our business to know the fine details of Walsh’s plan to build the Knicks. This is especially true given he is surely listing names of who he ideally wants to sign, as that would be considered tampering.
"you're the Rod Thorn in my Chris Bosh side."
by Chris Child's Fist on Feb 19, 2010 9:06 AM EST up reply actions
i know ,new things are scary. what are you 80? lighten up!
with 7 fowards on the knicks something had to be done . hill was not going to see mins. for a long time. unless we put him at guard or center. like the rest of are team that plays out of pos. it was a mess that needed cleaning. and if we get 2 guys that can play D . thats 1 more then we had this year.
wooo saah.. we r good!
we just need to view others opinions as such. there is no right or wrong.
like seth n the crew says…“im just sayin”
cheers yall.. i got a good feeling that the dreaded years are behind us
behind us! BEHIND US!!!!
BBBEEEHHIIINNDD UUSSSSS!!!!!????
ARE YOU F’N CRAZY!!!!!!!
j/k. pause, my dude.
twitter.com/aighttho
http://aightthen.tumblr.com/
I was looking at youtube videos to see how good the two from the celtics were (JR and Bill walker)
And I came across this video hahah. now house, walker and Tmac are teammates hahaha
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv-zHJtKzik
son, mcgrady is foul lol..
throwin the ball at bobby jackson?
gettin in the face of eric snow, lol.. i guess he’s really calmed downover the years
not really..
remember the mini shoving match with Shaq on the Suns?
by FreeBradshaw on Feb 18, 2010 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
LOL at the Celtics announcer complaining for fouls for the Celtics.
by FreeBradshaw on Feb 18, 2010 11:23 PM EST up reply actions
Watching the video of when TMac was on the Magic, my main question is
how did a team with Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady not win something?
grant hill
barely played, he was always injured, thats when his knee went bad, alot of people dont remember that, and blame it all on t-mac for not getting the Magic anywhere, but when you have centers like a 50 year old Ewing, Michael Doleac, Steven Hunter, a rookie Mike MIller, and darrel armstrong running point…its kinda hard to get anywhere
Can't we just all get along
so I can put hickies on her chest like Lil’ Sean…?
sorry for beating an old drum but why are we arguing with each other.
the whole essence of sports and why we love them is the unpredictability.
the draft, injuries, TEAM CHEMISTRY. these are all variables that 9 times out 10 must be in perfect harmony to build a dynasty.
some of you guys were questioning how good dantoni really is.
did the +/- of nash marbury really change everything?
being on the other side of the country i never heard of dantoni before a couple years ago but well informed fans would know that the greatest strength dantoni has is to help players find their strenghts. he knows how to create team chemistry. maybe the fact that every player we have is leaving us might have to do with him alienating players.
what im saying is to stop arguing. sports are meant to be unpredictable. there is no formula or special instructions on a piece of paper under phil jacksons medicine cabnet that we all want to believe exist. luck does play a role in success. building a dynasty is hard and the amount of work we have done to come this far and still not be satisfied just shows how bad we were before.
lebron seemed like a joke before donnie. i still cant believe we even have a chance to get him. a few years ago we were paying like 130 mill a year. in a few months we willl be down to 20 something. we are moving at lightspeed my fellow bloggers. please dont tell me you think the destination is closed when you should be saying ARE WE THERE YET!!!!!
Good words, though I submit that one of the funnest things about the Internet is maligning complete strangers under the cloak of anonymity.
I just don’t understand what makes people so sure that this team will be so much better in 2010-11. This is all or nothing. They will be very good to great for the next few years, or they will be terrible for a very long time. I’m just really hesitant to celebrate anything too quickly. It’s hard enough to land one superstar FA, let alone two.
Here’s hoping that Walsh knows what he’s doing. I miss what happens to this city when the Knicks are good and go on deep playoff runs. It’s better than when it happens to any of the other NY sports teams, bar none.
Rangers, Royals, Raiders, Knicks...the man loves a winner.
My hope just rose a little bit looking at which teams project to have the most FA money to spend
Knicks, Nets, Bulls, Wizards, Timberwolves, Heat, Clippers, Kings. Can you really picture the top FAs signing contracts to play on these teams? Aside from the state of the teams, think of the markets. Really New York, Chicago and maybe Miami? It would seem that unless some of these guys opt to REsign, we have a helluva chance to lure them.
"you're the Rod Thorn in my Chris Bosh side."
by Chris Child's Fist on Feb 19, 2010 9:50 AM EST up reply actions
Who are you, with your reasoned aznd thoughtful analysis and whatnot.
I just think…I mean, barring a bad collapse, Bron Bron is headed for a Finals run, or at least another Conf. Finals run. Hard to believe that he would turn right around after another good season and skip out on his hometown. And has Wade given any indication that he wants to leave at all? Why would he?
Meh. Like everyone keeps saying, we’re regurgitating the same points. Only time will tell. I do appreciate that Walsh is sticking to his guns, hope it pays off.
Rangers, Royals, Raiders, Knicks...the man loves a winner.
by self loather on Feb 19, 2010 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
well
If the Cavs win it all i could see him take the “I have nothing left to accomplish here” route
What happens if he wins? Title, big parade, and then a week later, “hey sorry Cleveland, you’re welcome on your first title in 40+ years, but it’s been real, see ya.” Just don’t see it.
Rangers, Royals, Raiders, Knicks...the man loves a winner.
by self loather on Feb 19, 2010 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
you don't see TKfA bolting after a title?
IF they win (not convinced), how about him saying “Thank You, Cleveland, you’ve been great, and i brought you a championship like I said I would. Nothing more that I can achieve here. Now I need a new challenge. I have always loved NYC and I need to do what is best for me.”
Think about who we are talkin about here
"you're the Rod Thorn in my Chris Bosh side."
by Chris Child's Fist on Feb 19, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
i happen to know the answer to this "who are you" question...
hmmmmm…….
twitter.com/aighttho
http://aightthen.tumblr.com/
remember Irkutsk
"you're the Rod Thorn in my Chris Bosh side."
by Chris Child's Fist on Feb 19, 2010 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
remember how you were a bulls fan?
until like last year?
twitter.com/aighttho
http://aightthen.tumblr.com/
my Bulls fannery wanned years ago. As Krause and Co. chased out Pippen, Phil Jackson and such, their mgmt reminded me too much of the Boston Red Sox.
Still a fan (I’ll never hate them), but listening to two schmucks constantly talk NY has slowly but surely grown on me.
"you're the Rod Thorn in my Chris Bosh side."
by Chris Child's Fist on Feb 19, 2010 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
thats the thing
you are inherently a bulls fan. if you became a thunder fan – i would approve because you were a sonics fan after, like you said, jordan left.
but bulls fans are to knicks fans what heretics are to religious fanatics. anti-christs.
twitter.com/aighttho
http://aightthen.tumblr.com/
by stingy d on Feb 19, 2010 6:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
i'm sorry everybody
i can’t get along with this stow away. he ttied to ruin my childhood.
twitter.com/aighttho
http://aightthen.tumblr.com/
by stingy d on Feb 19, 2010 6:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
it was never BECAUSE Jordan left
but I am ok with ruining your childhood… not in an Evan Hanna way though….
"you're the Rod Thorn in my Chris Bosh side."
by Chris Child's Fist on Feb 19, 2010 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
evan hanna never ruined my childhood!
he’s just a bum faggot. and he hated his parents, so he tried to be tough. but he never did shit to me. neverthless i broke his arm in a dream recently. and i can’t explain that. but seriously- he should NOT have assumed that i would let him cut everybody in line, by pretending he was friends with me.
as for you, you stayed short enough to not have the opportunity to ruin any part of my childhood. but i’ll be damned if you say “we” one more time with regard to the knicks.
you wanna root for the hometown team… let’s talk bobcats.
twitter.com/aighttho
http://aightthen.tumblr.com/
People really have good insights
It’s less about the fighting and more about the passion of being fans.
Sure, it’s easy to loose control when you feel your point isn’t coming across the way you meant, but its just that desire to get back to a winning program and the frustration of previous plans not working. This is New York. We expect to win and we are smarter than everyone else. It’s their problem if they don’t agree.
But the real point is we just want the Knicks to matter again. We are tired of waiting another year, and another year, and another year. We want to be on the winning again. we want to win on a trade, win on a free agent, win a game. Of course now we want to win this summer. We will see how the future plays out with these moves from yesterday and beyond. Winning cures all though. If we get our prize FA this summer, it will rejuvenate this city immensly. If we don’t, there will be other excellent players in blue and orange uniforms that will get us excited too. We will be a strong team regardless.
Its a good thing when a team near the bottom of the league can generate such passion from their fans. People still go to the games, and message boards go apeshit at the drop of a rumor. We would be in much bigger trouble if the opposite was true. You know… like New Jersey.
"you're the Rod Thorn in my Chris Bosh side."
by Chris Child's Fist on Feb 19, 2010 9:36 AM EST reply actions
I really think the Knicks are in better shape
Regardless of if they sign HHSNBN. And even though everyone is going on and on about this ‘2 max’ thing, I think they may not end up going that route. If they can get one, or even Joe Johnson, and keep Lee, and have Rogriguez running the show, and sign a rebounding/shot blocking big man, I think they’ll be much improved.
Remember, when Duhon was shooting well, this team had some pretty good success. I think they got rid of Jeffries and Robinson, who were really helping only marginally, and gave themselves the chance to replace those guys with more versatile, better players.
So I don’t see this as a ‘2max or bust’ scenario at all. I see it as clearing out marginal players and putting themselves in a position to get better ones and keep the good ones they have.
No doubt there is risk that the traded/swapped picks and Jordan Hill may come back to haunt us. We will see what happens.
As for Isiah, I think he did have a plan. He inherited a roster full of overpaid, mediocre players, way over the cap. He tried to trade those guys for better players – often overpaying, but that was his plan – to rebuild without stripping down the team. He also lost Allan Houston to injury and retirement, which killed them. He took a lot of risks which had long term consequences that were very difficult to get out of. Walsh’s plan is a more typical rebuilding scenario and has been very conservative, actually. The Knicks have not made any large financial committment to mediocre players that they hope will blossom.
We’ll see. I know we are all passionate and want to win and have a contending team we can love – and I think we’re on our way, but we may not be. We’ll see – that’s why they play the games.
Isola, Todays Daily News
“The Knicks could recruit James by giving him the option of choosing which other free agent – Chris Bosh, Dwyane Wade, Joe Johnson – the club should pursue.”
not to start another argument. just sayin.
Every time someone posts that picture, it makes me really effing hungry.
Except I hate when people don’t mix the gravy with the macaroni while they’re both still hot, because then what happens is that the macaroni with no sauce on it sticks together, and it’s gross.
Rangers, Royals, Raiders, Knicks...the man loves a winner.
by self loather on Feb 19, 2010 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
The spaghetti makes me hungry, not the duck.
Rangers, Royals, Raiders, Knicks...the man loves a winner.
by self loather on Feb 19, 2010 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
hey im a nerd web poster who posts pictures that have hidden meanings. my other nerds know what they mean so its cool with us. im real condesending behind my computer.
i can tell.
and i want you to know that you are picking a fight. which is the antithesis of this whole post. and ultimately this whole blog.
the duck and the spaghetti represent how conversation is so far gone. its an aggressive way of changing the subject.
twitter.com/aighttho
http://aightthen.tumblr.com/
absolutely none!
that’s the fun of it. we’re trying to keep it light here. it’s just basketball and ducks and spaghetti.
if you're daring...
http://a3.vox.com/6a00e398c983a8000300fa968849f30003-pi
twitter.com/aighttho
http://aightthen.tumblr.com/
f that
wouldnt have said nothin if he didnt reply my question whats the pciture mean with another picture
oh wait... i get it.....
the hidden meaning! of course! he’s flipping it on us. we’re uh…. n00bs?
twitter.com/aighttho
http://aightthen.tumblr.com/
true dat
I used to live in New Orleans, and there was a place that served a roast duck po’ boy.
Holy…
Rangers, Royals, Raiders, Knicks...the man loves a winner.
by self loather on Feb 19, 2010 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
you know..
that actually looks like Buccatini..which is like spaghetti, but is thicker yet has a hole in the middle of it (PAUSE).
by FreeBradshaw on Feb 19, 2010 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
ESPN Daily Dime
Did anybody else reading the daily dime today get the impression that Lebron will not leave cleveland? They also stated the sad fact that 6 teams have max money and there are barely 5 max players. It was a depressingly toned article, that seemed to harshly imply that teams with lots of free space this summer are going to be sorely dissapointed.
I also understand that this has no bearing on what will actually happen in summer 2010, but it seems the tone of summer 2010 has changed considerably…. its hardly being billed as the Lebron goes to NY sweepstakes anymore…maybe im just watching too much ESPN and going insane. I love Sage Steele. and Hannah Storm.
exactly. Its less about NY and more about Washington, Minnesota, (the other) LA, and MAYBE NJ
"you're the Rod Thorn in my Chris Bosh side."
by Chris Child's Fist on Feb 19, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
kelly dwyer said this:
going for broke means you have to go broke at some point
here’s to shootin the moon, fellers.
twitter.com/aighttho
http://aightthen.tumblr.com/
you don’t like this your a knob gobblin
by FreeBradshaw on Feb 19, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
seriously
Notice the even concentration of sauce throughout the body of spaghetti.
Rangers, Royals, Raiders, Knicks...the man loves a winner.
by self loather on Feb 19, 2010 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
I see what your saying...
me? I usually like the contrast of the plain pasta with some sauce mixed in the middle.
I eat past basically every other day holmes (and today’s the day!)…
I could do either or (Pause) but for realz, doesn’t bother me.
…I like the mound of sauce on the top cuz you can dunk some bread in there!!! YEA!
by FreeBradshaw on Feb 19, 2010 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
on theknicksblog.com
theres some good videos of each new player we got in the trades…
tmac had a lot of burst and good plays against the clippers..in his 5th game back

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