A little history
How to destroy a team.
Some recent history of NY draft choices..
In 2003, we chose Sweetney, ignoring Mo Williams, Collison, David West, Josh Howard, Diaw and Barbosa. You could have thrown darts at a board and done better than Sweetney.
In 2007, we took Chandler when we could have had Marc Gasol.
In 2005, we took Frye when we could have had Andrew Bynum.
In 2006, we took Balkman when we could have had Rondo or Millsap.
These and the disasterous Eddy Curry trade are the reasons why the Knicks are among the worst teams in the league.
Most of the damage was done by Isiah, but the trend continued last year with Jordan Hill over Jennings. Donnie just went to Paris to watch the European finals.He should have gone last year instead of relying on scouting reports. Most on this board are willing to give Donnie a pass because he unloaded some bums and got cap space. That was no stroke of genius- that was the obvious strategy to anyone who knows the game. He also acquired some bums like Darko and Larry Hughes. The real test comes July 1. I hope he chooses well because the grace period is over.
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In as important news...
I had french toast instead of pancakes this morning.
BUT I HAVE BLUEBERRIES!!
I could’ve had BLUEBERRY FUCKIN PANCAKES MAN!!!!!!!!!!!! I’m DOOMED!
Just keep winning
Sorry Vincent, I pretty much disagree with all of your posts.
This one is no different.
"you're the Rod Thorn in my Chris Bosh side."
by Chris Child's Fist on May 11, 2010 10:37 AM EDT reply actions
whoah
we picked balkman in like the second round dude. are you saying the twenty something picks before it were also wrong to not pick rajon rondo.
today you can make these arguments but when your at the draft you really dont know what is right.
if there was a perfect way to evaluate talent then you would never have a rajon rondo or gilbert arenas.
its hindsight dude. theres nothing worse then when you discuss something that has already been done and cant be altered.
by karamjitm9090 on May 11, 2010 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Balkman was #20 overall man....
Rondo I believe was #21 or #23
Just keep winning
by FreeBradshaw on May 11, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
No actually Vincent is right on this one
Balkman was taken with the 20th pick in 2006. We also took Mardy Collins with the 29th pick. Also Rondo coming out of college was not a sure thing.
by Robert Currence on May 11, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
you disagree?
With what? That Hill was a bad pick? That the real test is July 1? I don’t know what he is going to do and neither do you. It’s his job to sign the right FAs. I hope he does. If he doesn’t, and they miss the playoffs, you and the others will be calling for his scalp.
Dude
You gotta take your mind off this stuff. For our average draft position, we’ve done pretty well with Gallo, Lee, Chandler, TD, et al. Manu, Mark Price, Mike Redd, Boozer and Rashard Lewis were all 2nd round picks. Did every GM who didn’t pick them “destroy” his team? It’s an inexact process where teams are operating with only partial information.
And there’s no need to write up another post about how Donnie needs to sign free agents this summer. I know you’re sick of losing. You just gotta be patient.
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on May 11, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Hill was a bad pick, because
Everybody knew when Hill came out of Arizona he was not ready to contribute right away. Hill was an upside pick, He needed to get stronger and learn how to play NBA style defense. Hill would not have even come out if not for the coaching situation at Arizona. Donnie thought he could catch a jermaine oneal type situation. Oneal was not ready when drafted by Portland, but portland had enough bigs to stash him on the bench and let him develop. A couple of years of coaching and a couple of years in the weight room were all Oneal needed, ironically Donnie made the same mistake Portland made by trading him rather than sticking to their plan to develop him as their center of the future.
by Robert Currence on May 11, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Perfect comparison
Hill was also a pick for leverage against David Lee. NY needed to be able to say “we cant pay you what your agent wants, and we dont need to, we got this guy now”
Jennings was considered NBA ready. Hill was WIDELY understood as a project. He was still expected to go as high as he did too. The kid is very athletic and promising.
Hill wasn’t a mistake pick. Donnie assumed Jennings was a headcase waiting to happen and went with a big.
"you're the Rod Thorn in my Chris Bosh side."
by Chris Child's Fist on May 11, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Jennings was a head case
Donnie passed on Jennings because he “assumed Jennings was a head case”. You know this because you spoke to Donnie? Because of Hill, The Knicks have to swap draft picks in 2011 and give up another pick in 2012. And you say that Hill wasn’t a mistake! Passing up Jennings was a hugh blunder. Without Jennings there is no way the Bucks would won 46 games. With Jennings, the Knicks would have won more that 29, and would have a solid guard for many years
The reason Jennings dropped in the draft
was there were some questions about his character, and that he had some issues when he was over in Italy that was in the newspaper
by Robert Currence on May 11, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, I have Donnie Walsh on speed dial
Jennings was on the radio yapping about the draft, talking about how much better he was than Rubio, and just talking smack.
http://deadspin.com/5303709/brandon-jennings-continues-to-offend-well-everyone
http://blacksportsonline.com/index/2009/06/brandon-jennings-joe-budden-pr.html
Do you also remember that Jennings didnt even show up to the draft? Then his agent called and he arrived and just WALKED out on stage when he got there. That wasn’t cool at all.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Brandon-Jennings-rough-start?urn=nba,173423
This last link is a comprehensive list of the things Jennings did mostly before the draft. The author doesn’t just bash him either. Donnie Walsh may have admitted that he didn’t spend enough time scouting Jennings, but if you can go through those links and remember that we had just dealt with Stephon Marbury, then you can clearly see Jennings came with significant character questions.
Hindsight is 20-20 too.
"you're the Rod Thorn in my Chris Bosh side."
by Chris Child's Fist on May 11, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, Hill did not cost us any draft picks.
He was part of a trade. the Knicks didn’t draft Jordan Hill because they had a deal for Tracy McGrady’s expiring contract in place. NY never GAVE UP on Jordan Hill.
And Brandon Jennings is no lock to be the same player in NY as he is in Milwaukee. Milwaukee is a small market team, rebuilding and with little pressure to win. Excellent growing environment for a rookie. The pressures of New York? Not so much. And how long before we hammered Jennings for his 30% shooting?!?!?!
"you're the Rod Thorn in my Chris Bosh side."
by Chris Child's Fist on May 11, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
the swap of draft pick has to be the most overblown thing ever
if it were to happen this year, the knicks would be trading the #9 pick for #14. Big friggin whoop.
that, and there is a strong chance next year the knicks will be better (even if we miss out on the big guys, getting some quality lesser guys will prob not make us worse then this craptastic year).
that, and there is a strong chance next year the rockets will not be better. They are over the cap, and even if Ming comes back, he can not be counted on. They may stay the same or get slightly better, they have a great foundation, but its not as likely as the knicks getting better.
that, and there is the fact that the rockets play in the real hard West, and the knicks play in the .500 8 seed east.
Well
I guess it would be this year. But the Rocket starting 5 next year is what, Brooks/Lowry, Martin/Budinger, Battier/Ariza, Scola/Hayes, Yao…that’s pretty damn good. And if the Knicks strike out in the lottery, that’s a lottery pick swapping with a pick in the 20’s. That’s not good.
And if we have some understanding of how basketball goes we will not be calling for Donnie's scalp.
Mitch Kupchak was and idiot 3 or 4 years ago, so was Danny Ainge Portland’s GM Passed on Durant, sometimes despite their best efforts GM’s and Team Presidents don’t make the right calls or signings don’t work. One bad year by a front office guy does not destroy a Franchise, multiple bad years do. Secondly You cannot really judge Donnie’s record for another year or two at least. Jordan Hill might turn out to be a great pick, because his trade opened up cap space that might enable Donnie to sign or trade for a much better player than Hill is now or would ever be. Hey Red Aurebach drafted Rick Roby and turned that into Robert Parrish, so did he make a bad pick?
by Robert Currence on May 11, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah and by the same token
joe dumars was a genius in 2004
"No disrespect to the batter," Figueroa said, "but tacos are good."
by inventor frank on May 13, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
That is exactly the point
Dumars was a genius in 2004, but he made some bad moves since then over multiple years and now the Pistons are a bad team. His moves in last year’s offseason make him the poster child for what not to do with cap space and free agents.
by Robert Currence on May 13, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
You have a point.
Do you think the Lakers are fretting over having traded Marc Gasol. Maybe they are, but then after drinking all that championship champagne they forget.
by Robert Currence on May 11, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
+1
IN 1968 WE DRAFTED BILL HOSKET JR AND HE AVERAGED 4PTS OVER 4 YRS!!!!! POST FAIL!!maybe we draft Dr Emmett Brown next year, build us one a dem fancy time machine and we change our pics every year!!! dont wanna be mean, but its useless to dwell on past mistakes, learn and move on.
Name one guy
Who thought Marc Gasol was going to be this good back when he was drafted. .
But in a larger sense, there seem to be a lot of fans that love to spend time coming up with reasons why Walsh and/or D’antoni suck.
I’m not the least bit interested in this sort of thing. That stuff is available at a bunch of other websites. Dragging a GM through the mud because they didn’t make the right draft choices all the time is kind of a cheap shot, in my opinion.
Marc Gasol ummm Mitch Kupchak thought he was gonna be pretty good.
Gasol would have been taken hgher except for his contract issues, similar to Rubio, Most teams looking for a center couldn’t afford to wait two years for Gasol to get out of his deal. But you are right there does seem to be alot of D’Antoni can’t coach and Donnie does not know what the hell he is doing around here. I say give it some time.
by Robert Currence on May 11, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Walsh and D'Antoni
I never said Walsh and D’Antoni sucked. In fact, I think D’Antoni is a good coach. What I said is that the ultimate responsibility for a winning team rests with Walsh. You say it’s a cheap shot and that I am dragging him through the mud. When a GM makes bad choices and the team loses, he should be dragged through the mud and then fired. That’s the nature of the business. As far as Walsh is concerned, the jury is still out. I hope he signs the right players in July and that the Knicks make the playoffs.
The point Vince
is that your post is a little too premature. It takes years to evaluate a draft pick , Kobe Bryant looked like a bad pick his first couple of seasons, but would anyone say that Jerry West messed up in picking him now? Secondly, given that Donnie traded Hill, you really cannot evaluate whether the pick was bad until you look at the outcome. Some players are assets that play well for your team and others are assets because of who they get traded for
by Robert Currence on May 11, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
The point Robert
If Hill turns out to be a bum-unlikely- Donnie made a bad draft but a good trade. If Hill turns out to be a star, Donnie made a good draft and a terrible trade.Time will tell. However, there is little doubt that Jennings will be good.
the point jerks
is to point fingers and shit and hoot and holler. but never, and i do mean not ever, disagree with me.
twitter.com/aighttho
http://aightthen.tumblr.com/
IF Donnie gets the Knicks in contention..
who gives a shit about Jordan Hill
Just keep winning
by FreeBradshaw on May 12, 2010 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Contention?
Contention is not enough. You just don’t get it. The playoff is the goal- the minimum goal next year. 10 years of losing must end.
I know you fancy yourself a sharp basketball guy and you are probably are. Why not apply to the Knicks for a consulting position. Perhaps you could replace the scout who recommended passing on Jennings.
Contention
meaning title contention.
Just keep winning
by FreeBradshaw on May 13, 2010 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Let me ask you a question Vince
Were you this much on Jennings Jock before Donnie picked hill, or has it only been after the season. By your logic the Clippers screwed up because they didn’t take Jennings, After all what did thay get out of Blake Griffin. You evaluate a performance over time not in the immediate. If Donnie wins a title next year, it would only be because he traded hill to get the cap space to sign two max guys. But that is not the point. Two years from now Jennings could be out of the league, or he could be an All Star, I don’t really care, the point is will the Knicks be better next year than last year, and can we keep moving forward.
by Robert Currence on May 13, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions

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