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Know The Prospect(s): Pass-First Point Guards (who might go undrafted)

This edition of Know the Prospect comes from P&T community member RobDiablo44, who's having a little browser trouble and asked me to post for him. Thanks to Rob for breaking down three potential summertime pick-ups. I, for one, am a big Ish Smith fan, and also would enjoy Slaughter, if only because we could play this when he scores.

i.e. – guys we can invite to camp/D-League. The Knicks are in need of a point guard who will look for his teammates before he chucks one up. Duhon is getting long in the tooth and his fading is well documented. And Sergio "No Look Bowl of Paella to the face and/or shins" Rodriguez could be a sparkplug, or he might be too wild and inconsistent to fit in anywhere. At any rate, it couldn’t hurt to have another pure PG to fill out the roster. Most of the "Top Prospect"/draftable PGs are out of our reach AND they are usually (but not always) shoot-first types of guys (which, honestly, I think we’ve had enough of for a while, right?) So I wanted to look for some under the radar types who might go undrafted, are pure 1’s, look to pass first, and who have a decent body of college work to gauge. I found three intriguing prospects, so let’s take a look after the jump….

Star-divide

Ishmael Smith, SR, Wake Forest – 5’11", 155 lbs.

Okay… the dude is wispy thin. And with 3.1 turnovers a game his senior year (his worst in that department since his freshman campaign), he needs some work on the handle. And his 3pt % has dipped from a borderline 35% to a sad 22% over 4 years (while his FG % has stayed right around the 42-43% range). So you ask, what’s to like about this kid? He started (or got starter minutes) all 4 years at Wake, and these two stats: 6 assists a game and 1.7 steals. I like a guy who can distribute and pick it off. That will be kind of a theme for these "off the board" types, as you’ll see…

Ish, in-depth and clutch…



Willie Kemp, SR, Memphis – 6’2", 175 lbs.

Another senior, but not a 4-year starter, per se. He did get 30 mins a game his senior year though, and he made them count. 4.3 assists, 1.6 steals, 37.1 % from 3-pt range and a borderline dismal 38.5 from the field. His line doesn’t dazzle, but he’s a character guy who his teammates (and Memphis fans) loved. He’s got the size and the handle (only 2.0 turnovers a game, actually a career worst as a SR). Admittedly, I’ve got a soft spot for this borderline kid, but he could be a diamond in the rough.

Willie’s senior video…




A.J. Slaughter, SR, Western Kentucky – 6’3", 180 lbs.

My favorite of this threesome. The Hilltopper started his Jr and Sr seasons and along with his ability to score (17.5 a game at 41.6% a clip), he could also dish (4.3), steal (1.6), and keep a relatively decent handle on the ball (2.7 to’s a game). Word is he runs the pick-and-roll like a champ, but needs some work on his game management at the point. He was a combo guard at the college level, but he’d have to become a 1 in the pros. He seems willing to D up, and while he might not have the quickness, he does have the desire (and length) to make a run at it. He’s borderline as a pass first guy, but his 3-pt shooting (anywhere from 43 to 35% behind the arc) makes him an intriguing prospect.

A.J. gets, perhaps, the worst highlight video of all-time (what’d they do, film this through a screen door? And how did they not get the "highlight reel should be short and sweet" memo? At almost nine minutes, it’s running a bit long…) 




Do these guys really have a chance? I don’t know. But they’re guys who have a good amateur background with great schools, 4 years of experience, and an ability to get their teammates involved. And they probably won’t get drafted. So why not take a flier on one of them?

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Thanks Seth!

It’s like my work computer wants me to actually do WORK, rather than break down potential UFA Point Guard prospects… what the hell!

by RobDiablo44 on May 20, 2010 11:45 AM EDT reply actions  

I really like Slaughter

Did you do any research on Siena’s Ronald Moore? He led the nation in assists last year, and I don’t think he’ll get drafted either.

http://www.lostinbostonblog.tumblr.com
@lostinbostonRB

by viva_morrison on May 20, 2010 11:48 AM EDT reply actions  

I really didn't see much about Moore working out anywhere

Or even declaring for the draft (or, I guess, saying he wants to play pro ball, as he’s a senior I think). The most news-worthy thing he’s done of late is get a DWI, unfortunately. Not a deal breaker, but he didn’t really fit the mold of the guys I was looking for. His assist totals are impressive though.

by RobDiablo44 on May 20, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good Article

Fresh names, reasonable to happen. It is a thoughtful article. Too many rehashing of information, or dreaming of LeBron, Bosh and Wade together.

by NewFang on May 20, 2010 11:58 AM EDT reply actions  

For a mighty midget

Check out John Randle….great shooter who’s a defensive liability who can score from most anywhere. Very small, doesn’t get many steals and no blocks, but we’re talking bubble guys who got mad skills and if he could lower his turnover ratio could be an efficient bench passer. Good write-up on him at draftexpress.com.

by screamedia on May 21, 2010 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

you know what?

i’d be happy if the knicks just drafted ish smith. i don’t believe in height.

by Seth on May 20, 2010 12:18 PM EDT reply actions  

i don't have an issue with his height either

and of these three prospects, he’s probably the most pure point. But he needs to beef up and get himself under control a little, as he plays kind of higgledy-piggledy at times, IMO. I think he’d be a stretch in the draft, but I’d love to see him in camp.

by RobDiablo44 on May 20, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

clyde pronunciation:

ersh smith,

higgerdler piggeredler

by fuhry on May 20, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

i'm gonna date myself here

But higgledy-piggledy is from Bloom County. Does anyone even remember that? Man, I’m old…

And Clyde pronouncing higgerdler piggeredler made me laugh out loud in my training session. Nice work, fuhry.

by RobDiablo44 on May 20, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

i just posted a picture

of bill the cat. in honor of bill walker. somewhere.

twitter.com/aighttho
http://aightthen.tumblr.com/

by stingy d on May 20, 2010 4:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

now, i suppose this makes me old...?

but i have a billy and the boingers flexi.

twitter.com/aighttho
http://aightthen.tumblr.com/

by stingy d on May 20, 2010 5:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I too

Am old enough to remember Bloom County.

by fuhry on May 20, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Higgeldy Piggeldy

is from lots of stuff. Its the most famous track from The Fugs’ First Album. I don’t think anyone who visits this site is that old, though.

"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy

by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on May 20, 2010 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

They should have drafted Lawson last year

Obviously everyone mentions Brandon Jennings but imagine Lawson’s speed running D’Antoni’s offense…

GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!

by tanman5 on May 26, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I love Ish Smith.

I’m a big fan of players out of Wake Forest regardless, but Ish Smith seems like a character guy, and a feisty Lilliputian to boot.

Does he remind anyone else a little of Jeff Teague, just out of Wake? He’s lightning quick and seems to make decent decisions with the ball. He would be a pretty big defensive liability against most NBA points, obviously, but I’d give him a work out, pause.

Not too sure about the other two, but they seem like decent prospects.
Great write-up.

by Osborn on May 20, 2010 12:51 PM EDT reply actions  

ish smith

i am 100% against going anywhere near this kid. ive watched him play in person a bunch and in my opinion he is just horrendous. he commits far too many fouls for a pg, wayyyy too many turnovers, and has the most inconsistent shot i’ve ever seen. his one positive is that he’s quick as hell, but he is nowhere near an nba capable pg. not even close. just sticking to the acc, vasquez and scheyer are both lightyears ahead of this kid and at least one of them probably won’t get drafted.

by cityslacka on May 20, 2010 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Greivas Vasquez

6.3 assist per game had to score because no one else would

by lets go buffalo on May 20, 2010 1:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Now Vasquez I can get behind LGB

He would be a great fit for Pringles system, and he played for a solid coach in college, my only concerns about him would be his defense, Although He did get better at that during his time at MD. Also his shot selection can be a little troubling, but you made a good point he had to score at MD. He will not have to score with the Knicks so he should feel less pressure to put up shots if his offense is not immediately there.

by Robert Currence on May 21, 2010 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't have anything against Vasquez either

But I think he’ll get drafted, so he didn’t really fit in the theme of the original post. And, as mentioned, he DID some shootin’. Not so great shootin’, unfortunately. But, as also mentioned, he wouldn’t be counted on to shoot so much, so as long as he concentrated on his defense, I’d give him a look in Pringles system.

by RobDiablo44 on May 21, 2010 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ok, I';m gonna throw this out there since we are talking PGs

I’ve done no research other than watch him, but he seems like a pure PG.
John Scheyer, Duke. Dude is a Sr., and while I’m not a huge Duke fan, he is a very solid player who can dish but also can shoot. Thats a pretty big thing… the guys we are talkin about seem to be either good dishers or good scorers but not necessarily both.
I haven’t heard any predictions where Scheyer could get drafted (if at all), but even if you hate Duke, he is someone worth noting. Duke basketball is perennially among the elite and under a microscope, so if a guy can handle playing on that stage, and winning a title, well, that feels like a good indicator that he can handle some pressures of the next level.

"you're the Rod Thorn in my Chris Bosh side."

by Chris Child's Fist on May 20, 2010 1:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Also, nice job with this Rob

Very good idea to put some guys easily forgotten about on our radar. Just cus a guy may not get drafted doesn’t mean he cant hack it in the NBA.

"you're the Rod Thorn in my Chris Bosh side."

by Chris Child's Fist on May 20, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I GOT FOUR KNOW THE PROSPECTS

GREIVAS VASQUEZ PG MARYLAND JON SCHEYER PG DUKE LARRY SANDERS PF VCU OMAR SAMHAN C SAINT MARYS

by lets go buffalo on May 20, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

as a Gonzaga fan...

I have watched Samhan for 4 years. He has a bevy of solid post moves, but the guy lumbers. I don’t think he is a great fit for the Pringles offense, but I do think he could be a solid pro in the right system

http://www.lostinbostonblog.tumblr.com
@lostinbostonRB

by viva_morrison on May 20, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didnt care for Samhan

Dude might be good, but he was straight oozing ego in the NCAAs. I wanted him to get a Dikembe Mutumbo elbow to the head. I wanted him to look like Steve Nash did after Tim Duncan caught him.

My thing is…you cant be all badass and hardcore and wear a jersey that says Gonzaga on it. Just grab your rebounds and shut the fuck up. If you were a real center, you would be playing at an elite school.

I like Gonzaga too.

"you're the Rod Thorn in my Chris Bosh side."

by Chris Child's Fist on May 21, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

ie: Wes Matthews

http://www.lostinbostonblog.tumblr.com
@lostinbostonRB

by viva_morrison on May 20, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn't wanna mention Scheyer cuz he's a Dukie and they are usually Dookie...

but Scheyer’s good. Very good shooter, 6"5 PG..I think if he player at Florida his name would be Nick Calathes.

I’d be down for getting him. He doesn’t even have to be a PG, which I kinda don’t think he is, more of a combo guard..but is white so hence plays below the rim.

Just keep winning

by FreeBradshaw on May 20, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am a Duke Fan..

…..And I very much think, unless he is drafted, Scheyer will be on the Knicks Summer league roster. We all very much know how much DAntoni values the advise of his fellow olympian sideliner Coach K. Heck, it was enough to give Duhon the keys to the offense and a full MLE for 2 seasons with no starting experience.(not even enough to not while at Duke). Now what do you think Coach K will say when the captain of the nat’l champions is without a team. I do think however the coaching staff will give any new player, especially a rookie, with extra scrutiny. But Scheyer is a good solid player. People knock him because Nolan Smith took a great portion of ball handling duties, but DAntoni wants a player who can limit dribbles and make the correct pass. Also, another player to keep in mind is Matt Bouldin of the Zags. Anytime you have one of the greatest PGs of all time(Stockton) advising you, its worth a look. Not withstanding the fact some draft outlets have compared him to Derron Williams. As far as bigs, we might be better served drafting a raw prospect like Arnett Moultrie or Kevin Seraphin and sign a vet in front, ideally Ratliff.

by Ew Hefner on May 21, 2010 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Bouldin is interesting

I dont know much on him, but he seemed to be a very solid player. Felt like he was really on his own this year for Gonzaga. He was way too passive against Syracuse in the tourney too. But Sounds like he can shoot well, create his own shot, and has nice court vision.
He might be worth keeping an eye on…

"you're the Rod Thorn in my Chris Bosh side."

by Chris Child's Fist on May 21, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

i would love to write up Matt Bouldin because he was my favorite Zag the past three years

but i don’t think he will get drafted because of his lack of athleticism/defense and his inconsistent stroke/passiveness

http://www.lostinbostonblog.tumblr.com
@lostinbostonRB

by viva_morrison on May 21, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Scheyer is a player CCF

And has nice size for a PG 6’5" the only concern really is that he is not really quick enough to guard most NBA point guards, but he is a smart guy who knows how to play. With today’s training techniques Scheyer could improve his lateral quickness pretty quickly.

by Robert Currence on May 21, 2010 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, thats my point with him. That kid looks entirely coachable and fundamentally sound.

Us white kids cant jump much, so we might as well learn to pass, shoot and not dribble off our feet.

"you're the Rod Thorn in my Chris Bosh side."

by Chris Child's Fist on May 21, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hear ya CCF

But Scheyer reportedly has a 38" inch vertical, and I did see him throw down a couple of nice dunks during his career at Duke. So maybe he is just passing for White.

by Robert Currence on May 21, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll also nominate...

Nic Wise from Arizona.

Pros: A definite PG. Decent stroke from 3 (both in % and form). Lightning quick with decent penetration. Doesn’t shy from the big shot. Dealt admirably with four diff head coaches in four years. Plays passing lanes well.

Cons: Not a pure pass-first PG. Poor overall FG%. Height. Low APG. Merely an avg overall defender.

The low assists could be driven by the team around him during his senior year and him having to take more of a shooter’s role. So his low FG% and assists could be driven by him having and trying to be “the man” when it might not be best suited for him.

He’s not someone that will get draft (the idea of the article), but might be worth a look for an invite.

by Zhantee on May 20, 2010 2:29 PM EDT reply actions  

I have seen Two Mocks now that have us taking

Vasquez and Varnado, Now if we followed the order of the Mock and bought all three of Memphis’s picks, and Atlanta’s while Keeping our two picks this is what we would end up with:

Hassan Whiteside 7’0" 235 Marshall
Soloman Alabi
Lance Stephenson
Eric Bledsoe
Greivis Vasquez
Jarvis Varnado

by Robert Currence on May 20, 2010 2:59 PM EDT reply actions  

We or Cablevision?

Cause the Knicks got mad paper yo , so don’t even front if Jimmy Dolan get up off his cheap ass we could buy all of them picks.

by Shawn Harris on May 20, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

If we bought All 4 picks, their salaries would count 4.4 million against the cap.

The 2 second round picks are not guaranteed and do not count against the cap until after they actually make the team. and Even then we would be talking another 900K if both guys made the team. So we could fill out the roster with 6 potential promising guys and only spend 5.3 mil doing it. The only other way we could get 6 guys and pay that kind of money would be to raid the D-League.

by Robert Currence on May 21, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

If we end up with those two...

I’d be very VERY happy. I like both Vasquez and Varnado and would most definitely consider that a successful draft considering our positioning.

by Zhantee on May 20, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

Being able to get both of them in the second round could be considered a steal

by Wilson Chandler's Voicebox on May 20, 2010 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's a feasible scenario

that Vasquez and Varnado will be available to us. I think that’s a good strategy too

by fuhry on May 21, 2010 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

that would be an amazing draft

by beazo01 on May 20, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can see us buying 1 of Memphis' picks and POSSIBLY Atlanta.

I like the idea of Bledsoe with ATL’s and Varnado and Vasquez.

Id rather pass on Lance….

"you're the Rod Thorn in my Chris Bosh side."

by Chris Child's Fist on May 21, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was just filling in the names I saw on the Mock

It had Memphis taking Lance with the 25th pick. Right After Atlanta took Alabi. Bledsoe was the 28th pick in this Mock. Now this Mock has Armon Johnson going to portland at 23, could trade with them and take Johnson.

by Robert Currence on May 21, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

A.J Slaughter??

The name alone will give us 5-6 “we give up, how can we win against a PG who’s name is Slaughter” wins. Get that dude!!

Ish-Smith is the guy I’d draft out of the 3 though. But A.J Slaughter..come on!

I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.

Vince Lombardi

by moose35 on May 20, 2010 4:21 PM EDT reply actions  

i'm really overjoyed

at the number of excellent know the prospect posts we’ve gotten. i’ve really enjoyed reading each of these. the p&t community has come a long way. great job, guys. i’m getting a little choked up.

by Seth on May 20, 2010 5:42 PM EDT reply actions  

somebody get this guy a tissue

I’ve never been more interested in reading about speculations, rumors, hopes and dreams. P&T = Best. Blog. Ever.

by Wilson Chandler's Voicebox on May 20, 2010 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

I really enjoy this place. Good insights on the blog and even the communal posts are good (which isn’t always a given, particularly on Knicks blogs… it can get negative and nasty quick at some of those places…). Some good senses of humor in these parts.

by RobDiablo44 on May 21, 2010 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Am I late or

has there been a post about Jerome Jordan out of Tulsa

by blackhova on May 20, 2010 8:10 PM EDT reply actions  

here's one

draft express said he dominated hasaan whitehead when they played and whitehead is a projected top 20.

by beazo01 on May 20, 2010 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Be careful with evaluating him on that.

Whiteside was a freshman and had played like 4 or 5 college games when the two teams met I believe. So Jordan should have had the upper hand. Whiteside is a top 20 pick because he is projected to have more upside and be a better player over the course of his career than Jordan. However, Jordan might be a better pick for a team that needs a guy who could step in right out of college and play 20 mins. Next year. Though two or 3 years from now Whiteside just might dominate him.

by Robert Currence on May 21, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

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