Hate/Love
by Robert Currence on Jun 8, 2010 2:11 PM EDT
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With all the talk about Tony Parker and a possible trade for him (I don't think he is being traded), here is a lineup that you guys will hate.
We get Parker, I have already proposed sign Duhon and Harrington and trading for him so I will stick with that. If Sergio is renounced, we will have about 37 million, so Parker 's 13 million for next year would reduce us to about 24 million. Then we re-sign David Lee (5 years, 50 million backloaded) So Lee would make 8 mil, that leaves 16 mil. If Toronto loses Bosh and they draft a Center (they have a decent shot at Whiteside) Bargnani probably will be shopped. We trade Chandler for him. Bargnani makes 8 mil next season so that leaves 8. Next we sign Mike Miller for about 5 mil. Then we use our MLE to sign Frye (about 4 million) and resign Barron. This gives us:
Parker/ Douglas
Miller/ Walker
Gallo/Miller
Lee/ Frye
Bargnani/ Barron
Our two draft picks and Curry.
Upside, if Parker is a bust he is an expiring contract, we don't re-sign him and his 13 mil plus Curry will put us about 26 mil under the Cap for 2011 (if the Cap is 58 mil).
This line up would be hated the minute Walsh put it together for the following reasons:
A) It fits D'Antoni's style. A guard who can push the ball (and is great in the pick and roll), Players who can shoot and spread the floor, Bigs who can run the floor and shoot, and a team with a collectively high basketball IQ.
B) After two years of waiting for Lebron James a line up featuring Tony Parker would seem like a cruel Joke.
C) On paper this team is so soft it could be used for bathroom tissue. Plus no one would believe D'Antoni could get that group to play defense.
D) Too many foreign players and too many guys not obviously athletic (Toronto Raptors light)
E) Marc Berman wouldn't understand it, neither would Peter Vescey
F) Parker is injury prone
G) LEBRON JAMES IS NOT ON THIS TEAM!
H) If this team didn't make the playoffs and win at least one series, everybody would be calling for Donnie's and D'Antoni's heads.
Why this team might end up being loved.
When healthy Tony Parker is still an elite level point guard, and would thrive in D'Antoni's offense. Also Parker could provide leadership to this group. This line up would be a nightmare to guard most nights as there is a shooter/scorer everywhere you look on the floor. And if Parker stays healthy, if D'Antoni gets this group to play a little defense, and convinces someone other than Lee to grab a few rebounds, this team will be difficult to beat on more nights than any Knick team has been in a decade.
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Oh god!!
lol…..this team WOULD be soft as bathroom tissue and NO defense would be played. I’ve always liked M Miller and T Parker tho…although I agree with you, I don’t think he’s being traded…
they could go win a championship in the Euro league!!
Sad part would be that Gallo would be the best defender!
True there, but if it broke right?
But worse come to worse, we re-load with 26 million in cap space the next year, a first round draft pick and maybe a tradeable piece or two.
by Robert Currence on Jun 8, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Currence!!!!
That is is nuts Dawg! Pussy Galore, might as well close down the garden and re-open it as a fuckin strip club Dawg! Although I will say this all them mutha fuckas can shoot tho. But Too much pussy, way too much pussy!.
by Shawn Harris on Jun 8, 2010 3:05 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Agree that the line up is soft,
But then again so is most of the league.
by Robert Currence on Jun 8, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
yea..
the Celtics are one of the only teams I’d say are “tough”, and they’re old.
Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit
i'm beginning to think you hang at alot of strip clubs
What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!
by Lord Smackington on Jun 8, 2010 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I think even the 60's would say this team is too white.
Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit
starters
what starting lineup could boast 4 1/2 white people. And If Frye is the 6th man, its 4 3/4 out of the top 6.
Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit
I don't give a fuck if it is too white
it is too pussy dawg! White pussy, black pussy, chinese pussy, pussy is pussy Dawg, just not at tha garden playa!
we don't have a midlevel exception
b/c we aren’t starting the offseason over the cap
"No disrespect to the batter," Figueroa said, "but tacos are good."
We do we just can't access it until we use up our exisitng cap space.
Remember that is how Boston was able to Get Garnett, Allen, and Posey.
by Robert Currence on Jun 8, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
ahh nice
"No disrespect to the batter," Figueroa said, "but tacos are good."
by inventor frank on Jun 8, 2010 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
It is true, league rules only restrict a team from using a MLE
until they have used sufficient cap space, that an additional signee would force them to go over the cap. Folks that is how James Posey ended up a Celtic. They signed Ray Allen to a Max Deal, Traded for Garnett who already had a Max deal. And then used their MLE to sign James Posey.
by Robert Currence on Jun 9, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
The Celtics traded for both Allen and Garnett..
..then signed Posey to the MLE.
Every team have the exceptions, but they are added into the team’s salary cap. You can renounce the Disabled Player, Bi-Annual, Mid-Level and/or Traded Player exceptions in order to obtain more cap room (which we will do), but you cannot use up all your cap room and then once you are over the cap, use the MLE and what not.
by HanginfromtheGallo's on Jun 9, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
That is not true because in that case virtually no team even 1 million under the cap
could ever use their Mid or Bi annual exceptions and that is done every year.
by Robert Currence on Jun 9, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
if you are under the cap, you dont get exceptions.
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=476978
An exception is just that: an “exception” to the salary cap that allows a team to go over the salary cap to sign, or in some cases trade for, a free agent. For the Knick‘s, there are no relevant exceptions: the mid-level exception (“MLE”), the Bi-annual exception (also called the “LLE” or the “million dollar exception”), the minimum salary exception (also sometimes called the “veteran’s minimum”), and the traded player exception. The reason the Knicks will not use these is because we are under the cap and will renounce them or they get added to our cap total.
The MLE: The MLE can be used to sign players to contracts for a maximum of five years, with annual raises equivalent to 8% of the contracts first year value each year. This exception is available to teams above the salary cap (or to teams only slightly below the cap), and can be used annually. For the 2009-10 season, the MLE can be used to give free agents contracts starting around $5.5 million (with the actual number to be determined no later than July 8 ). The MLE can be used in its entirety on one player, or can be split amongst several players.
I am a fan of both the mets and knicks... so just kill me now.
i know this isnt the best link for it
but I am at work and dont have time to really search to find the rules.
I am 100% sure on this. We have been talking about it for a while.
I am a fan of both the mets and knicks... so just kill me now.
The Mid-level exception – Teams are allowed to sign one or multiple players as long as they do not exceed the total mid-level exception. The Mid-level exception is set at what the average NBA salary is. The Mid-Level Exception for the 2007-08 NBA season is $5.36 million. Only teams that are over the Salary Cap can use the mid-level exception to sign free agents.
http://www.sportscity.com/NBA/Salary-Cap/
I am a fan of both the mets and knicks... so just kill me now.
Well I have been overruled by the commisioner but I came with a
contingency plan. Instead of the two years I was going to offer Frye, I give him 4 years and Back load the last two. There was a reason I saved 3 mil above.
by Robert Currence on Jun 9, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think this is madness.
Sure it looks soft on paper. But there IS talent and there IS veteran leadership-type guys on it. It also forces us to further develop Gallo and Toney Douglas gets to learn for a year behind Parker.
Granted this is not a championship caliber team, but I would believe playoffs and possibly 2nd round. The question marks to me are can Gallo handle the inevitable pressure of being relied on to score more than last season? Can Earl Barron and the 2nd round picks we make (Varnado?) step in and help us rebound and guard the rim?
Mostly, come 2011 FAgency bonanza, who do we spend our millions on? We wouldnt sign Parker for max money, but Carmelo Anthony?
I mean, NY fans will settle for a competitive team that doesn’t just make the playoffs, but competes, but come 2011, the expectations HAVE to be Conference Finals or better. Right?
Now, yeah, I also don’t think Parker is playing anywhere but SA, but I’m just entertaining this hypothetical.
"you're the Rod Thorn in my Chris Bosh side."
by Chris Child's Fist on Jun 8, 2010 4:18 PM EDT reply actions
yea..
that’s true.
I mean, if this team here clicks, could they possibly sneak into the playoffs? Gallo improving, Bargnani helping Lee on the glass and also hitting treys.
Parker would roam free.
How much WORSE could this team be then the Suns? What exactly would the Suns have?
Parker vs. Nash
Mike Miller vs J-Rich
Gallo vs. Grant Hill
Lee vs Amare
Bargnani vs. Robin Lopez
Frye vs Frye
DWTDD vs. DWLBD
Bill Walker vs. Jared Dudley
Could they get a Louis Almudson? Sure you can find a 2nd rounder to be a garbage man
A Dragic? No..they can’t get a Dragic, tho Mikhail Torrence is intriguing.
Maybe they aren’t as good, and I don’t think they would be. But it IS the East, so they could at least squeek into the 8th seed.
I think they could win. And who knows how a team like that can gel. Gallo could take his game to the next level, that’s the biggest unknown, how good really is he?
Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit
and then you got Potentiall Melo
and CP3 next year.
Overall, I think next year’s FA class is a bit deeper too.
Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit
Good points.
Really the biggest if, is Tony Parker. If he is healthy and playing like he is capable, This is a team that could realistically win 50 games next year. If he spends 1/3 to 1/2 of the season on the bench next to Eddy Curry in a suit. This team probably doesn’t win 30 games.
by Robert Currence on Jun 8, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
not madness but
honestly if at all possible, I’d like to win more games sooner rather than later. It might not be possible, but I know this lineup has to be something thought of as a last resort cuz this lineup is straight pudding.
What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!
by Lord Smackington on Jun 8, 2010 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
i dont hate this lineup
on tissue paper. But i dont like it either. And once the season started, I would most assuredly want to kill myself. This would be the first team in history to average 120 ppg and lose every one of them by 35.
"Game Knows Game"
Now now Smuckles
Parker plays defense, Mike Miller has been known to try and play defense, Gallo proved he wants to play defense, and Bargnani puts up more resistance now than when he came in the league on that side of the ball. And as we saw in the playoffs this year Frye plays alot harder on the defensive side of the ball than he used to. Really the only guys who would be in this rotation who play zero D are Walker and Lee. So they might just surprise you.
by Robert Currence on Jun 8, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Dawg Pops is right
That line up would get raped nightly Dawg! shit would be so bad we would have to start holdin them take back the night marches before fuckin home games. That would suck some striaght poot butt shit, went to one of them things at school once playa, and dem be some ugly bitches at them marches!
alright alright
suicide is never the answer. But this team is not balanced at all. Parker gets some steals, but he’s undersized and will definitely have lost a step after last season. Without his old school speed, I dont know how effective he will be since he’s not an outofthisworld passer. Miller is a civ on D, that will never change. Frye and Bargnani are good help defenders, but they will get the shit posted out of them by legit centers. I hope Lee can adequately guard PFs, but that is a gamble too.
I will give you props for the lineup creativity though, and it is seriously scary on offense. All of those guys, save lee and parker, can launch it from 25 feet. A center who can spread the floor and block shots would be awesome. Im sure Mike wouldnt mind this lineup, but no way it would be competitive consistently enough to contend. It’s a fun regular season and a first round bounce.
"Game Knows Game"
Defensively,
This team might surprise you. First of all Parker has 3 rings and knows the significance that defense played in his getting them. If D’Antoni mentions defense at all, Parker will help him get the other guys to buy in. You are right Miller is not a great individual defender but does a good job in team defense and will work hard on the defensive side of the ball even when he is overmatched. Gallo has the will and I believe that he will continue to improve as a defender. Bargnani and Frye are better defenders than you think, not to sound like dabutch or ABS, but if you look at the Center defensive rankings both Bargnani and Frye ranked higher than Camby and Haywood, and those two guys were the consensus picks at Center by most of the folks here on P&T. Lee stated that he will work to make himself a better defender and I believe him, everything Lee has ever said he was going to improve about his game he has so far, and since defense like Bill Russell says is 85% effort, I think he will get it done. No they will not be a defensive juggernaut by any means, but they could do well enough to be in the middle of the pack say around 107 pts a game. And with their offensive potential and balance, that should be good enough for them to get wins on most nights. As for them being a first round bounce don’t be so sure. That would depend on who they draw, but if you look at the line up, assuming Pringles uses an 8 man rotoation and possibly 9, you are talking about having a rotation where all 8 guys can contribute offensively, that is going to be a tough match up for alot of NBA teams, because when that many guys contribute it becomes hard to game plan defensively. No one guy has to go out and be the hero, just take the shots that are there and the shots you can make.
by Robert Currence on Jun 9, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe if Tony Parker bring his wife to practice
and slaps a jersey on her (a tiny one) and tells the guys to D up, we will see some All-NBA shit right there. That would motivate the fuck out of these guys
"you're the Rod Thorn in my Chris Bosh side."
by Chris Child's Fist on Jun 9, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
they would not be good defensively
but you gotta compared them to the Suns and then look at what these guys do well.
The Suns were pretty damn good weren’t they? I dunno how the hell they defended anyone, but they did.
Would this Knicks team Currence so eloquently put together, be any worse at defense then the Suns, or better yet…the 2009 Knicks? Tony Parker at least kinda sorta gives a shit about D. Bargnani is tall and actually is a pretty decent enough shot blocker, decent post defender as well..all pluses for a guy that can score like he can.
And not to mention, if they manage to land Varnado who’s polished defensive game can at least get you some nice O/D switches at the end of games with Lee?
I can’t lie, this team would shot the fuck out of the rock. I better not try and like it any more, cuz its bound not to happen…the Tony Parker is one thing, the Bargnani part is another…..
Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit
**shoot the fuck out of the rock
I forgot the O, but O is not a problem in this case.
Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit
Similar defensively maybe
but that suns team still had the edge to compensate on O. Nash is a hall of famer and elite passer. Tony is not. And remember how Phoenix started to flounder when Nash went through the troubles with his back and knees? For pgs, its not the years, its the mileage. PLus amare could score in the paint on that team. This Knick team literally doesnt have a single person who can create a shot down low. And where’s chandler the all-purpose swingman? Every good team needs one. It would be a disgusting amount of fun to watch and route for them, but I dont know if they’re complete enough to win much. Any day the 3s aren’t falling is an automatic loss. Every game that Parker sits next to Curry is a waste. Every ice cream flavor melts in the summer.
I am eating ice cream.
"Game Knows Game"
Not 100% correct. Remember Tony P.
played in a primarily half court style, where he had to adapt his game, and yet he still avg. around 6 assts a game. Playing in D’Antoni’s style, which is actually better suited to him, that number should go up. Remember Steve Nash only averaged about 7 assts per game in Dallas, before hooking up with D’Antoni where he consistently averaged around 11 assts. The perception, painted mostly by the media is Nash made D’Antoni, but if you look at Nash’s career numbers you can argue that D’Antoni made Nash. As for your point about the post, consider this, Bargnani can post up and does an effective job down there (Even seen him hit a few shots over Dwight Howard in the post), Mike Miller is also not a 3 Pt specialist, but as complete an offensive player you can be without being a superstar, Miller can also post up when he is guarded by a smaller player and likes too. Gallo has even shown some promise in the post when he has gone down there. Lastly, if they push the ball, and move it effectively, they will get guys running at them, and every last single one of these guys has the ability to pump fake and drive, Even Bargnani, who before a growth Spurt played Guard!
by Robert Currence on Jun 9, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Also I would like to add in the case of Parker, that
playing all these years for Popovich has an added benefit that he is disciplined with the ball and does not make alot of bad decisions, even in transition.
by Robert Currence on Jun 9, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Well Parker can light it up
Bargnani is possibly the perfect C for Pringles and probably could play off Lee beautifully.
Mike Miller is very underrated, the guy can flat out score.
I actually think Currence’s team would score even more then the Suns. Who do the Suns have?
With Tony Parker running the point, I think Lee could take a bump up in the scoring average. Gallo’s getting better and hopefully more consistent. Miller can score from anywhere including slashing to the basket and mid-range. Bargnani can shoot from anywhere too.
Then you got Frye off the bench. Walker we know can score. Tony Douglas we know can score; Toney probably is a better backup PG then Barbosa since he can at least run the offense quite well.
This team is a pipe dream, but its really a perfect team for Pringles offense. They’d be the Great White Hype, but who knows in the East? If the Suns can make it to the Finals in the West, why not a team of similar style and skill in the East?
Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit
by FreeBradshaw on Jun 9, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Team is not as much as a pipe dream as you might think.
Sure I don’t think Tony parker is getting traded, but stranger things have happened in the NBA. Bargnani may be shopped especially if they lose Bosh, Draft a center, and sign Amir Johnson. Without Bosh, the Raptors are in rebuilding mode, and they have a lot of large contracts. Bargnani has a big contract (on the back end he makes have of his 50 mil in the last two years of his deal) but his immediate cap hit is still affordable so he is marketable. Secondly, they tried to trade him last year to Dallas for Josh Howard, and the deal fell through because they needed a third team, and then the Wizards came in with a better offer. So Colangelo is open to moving him.
And obviously, Miller, Lee, and Frye are all Free agents and we have enough cash to sign them.
by Robert Currence on Jun 9, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess Parker is the real pipe dream
Bargnani sort of is I guess..tho maybe with his contract and then Curry’s expiring, its something they do?
Mike Miller I’d like them to get regardless. He’s a great shooter and would be perfect for Pringles.
Actually, if they got HWSNBN…then manage to get Miller and Bargnani? Maybe retain Lee?
Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit
Yea stranger things have happened
but this is real wild. I don’t think Parket gets traded, but if so….. for Duhan and Al?? Like I said in another post, not only can SA do better…..but Duhan and Al are FA. Why would SA make this trade when they could prob get them on the cheap? and thats if SA even wants them… Same w Bargnani, maybe Tor is shopping him maybe not…but he was a #1 draft pick, he’s not been a total bust and they have spent alot of time and effort w/ him to trade him for just Chandler…lol…and if they get rid of Bosh, I think Bargnani is who they try to rebuild around. Maybe NY can get M Miller, which I would like…..I’m not too sure D Lee could be had at $10 Mil…..it depends on his other offers, which he will def get….
why could SA do better?
You and ABS made some great points. Parker is in decline. He is not even the starting point guard on his team. He is getting paid 13 mil next year to come off the bench. For a bench player who is clearly not worth the value of his contract anymore to bring back two serviceable players, Donnie over paid. In fact the GM in San Antonio would do that deal because he is smart and Donnie is stupid. The Knicks actually get raped on the trade.
Toronto is not gonna rebuild around Bargnani, he is a BUST of colossal proportions! ABS pointed out that he shoots under 45% from the floor and avgs less than 5 rebounds a game. Chandler is cheaper and flat out a better shooter and rebounder, just look at the advanced stats! Again Donnie gets raped. The question is not why these teams wouldn’t do these trades, but rather why would Donnie!
by Robert Currence on Jun 10, 2010 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Look it could have been worse
I could have suggested Spanoulis!!!!!
he's coming to the nba
this year
"No disrespect to the batter," Figueroa said, "but tacos are good."
by inventor frank on Jun 8, 2010 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
i think if this is how the summer goes
it will be a disappointment.
I am a fan of both the mets and knicks... so just kill me now.
Yea even tho Parker is a nice upgrade at PG
if this is what we walk away with this summer, I’m pretty sure DW would get roasted. Of course he could always say “wait until next summer” (i.e. Melo, Paul, etc)….
yea your right...didn't realize that
I also didnt realize T Murphy and Battier are unrestricted in 2011. I like both players, I don’t know how Battier would fit in this system but I would love having a bona fide defender on the team.
i can't wait for those two guys
to sign anywhere else but ny. two of the most bland players in the entire league. and murphy has yet to seem very interested in winning a game so far in his career. chris paul, however, i want in ny more than lebron.
twitter.com/aighttho
http://aightthen.tumblr.com/
I'm down for bland
if it means improving your D and winning games…..Battier’s a great role player, can block a shot, rebound, commit turnovers, provides vetern leadership in the locker room (very important, something Knicks don’t have now). A guy like that could help change the culture of a team. Murphy is a dbl-dbl guy and prob would actually have numbers similar to Lee in this system, with the exception he could shoot the 3 (career 40%) and spread the floor more. He would be a tougher guard than Lee too at 6’11"…..
agree on CP3
I could imagine what he’d be able to do in the 7SOL offense. What it did for Nash is incredible, but CP3’s at a different leve. He’d help Lee average about 35pts a game.
Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit
by FreeBradshaw on Jun 9, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Battier can shoot 3's
an obviously he can guard people.
by Robert Currence on Jun 9, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Is this an exercise
to see how implausible and soft your hypothetical team can be and still be able to talk people into it?
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jun 9, 2010 1:00 PM EDT reply actions
Why is it implausible?
And define soft?
by Robert Currence on Jun 9, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
There has been alot of talks of the Spurs moving Parker
and while I do not necessarily buy it, if they are willing we have some poential pieces to get him, plus we can absorb his salary. Toronto tried to trade Bargnani last year, but the Wizards beat them to the punch. (They tried to trade him for Josh Howard who in style of play is similar to Chandler) And as for soft, Parker’s not soft. Miller isnot athletic but he is never been called soft. Gallo is not soft, and neither is Bargnani in the sense that he can be intimidated. I saw him go against your boy Dwight Howard, howard elbowed him and sent him to the floor, on the next 3 possessions Bargnani hit two shots over him and blocked one of his shots. So No he is not Kendrick Perkins but he obviously was not intimidated by Howard. The only real softee is David Lee.
by Robert Currence on Jun 9, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Just too many hypotheticals that don't make sense for the other team or for FAs
Plus, this team would struggle to play .500 ball.
Duhon and Al for Parker in a sign and trade? Not only could the Spurs certainly get a better haul than that from another team, but they could simply sign either of those guys outright and control their costs if they intend to get rid of Parker. You don’t trade a top 10 (albeit declining) PG for a backup PG and a backup SF/PF, especially when they are free agents.
Toronto loses their best big, so then, of course, they trade their only big man and long term investment in Bargnani because they have a chance at Hassan Whiteside (who’s decidedly a project)? And they’ll take Chandler, an average player at the deepest position in the league, for him? Why would they do that? Who would start at C or PF for them?
David Lee will sign for more than 10 mill a year. That’s just going to happen. There’s too may teams with cap space who won’t be able to land a max guy, so Lee will get paid. Same with Frye. What makes you think that 4 million will be enough to get him? He had a career season. Someone will offer him the full mid-level.
And here, I’ll define soft. Soft – A starting lineup consisting of Andrea Bargnani (dude’s name is Andrea), Mike Miller, Dave Lee, Danny Gallinari, and a declining Tony Parker.
And this one time that you saw Bargnani sack up does not change that he averages under 5 rebounds a game and shoots under 44% for his career. For a center, those numbers are absolutely atrocious. He’s a jumpshooter and not even a very good one. As if that’s not bad enough, he also has a backloaded contract that escalates to 12 mill in 2014/15. If he continues his pussy play, his contract will be an Isaiah-like albatross. Add in D Lee’s hypothetical back-loaded contract and you have the guaranteed softest front-line in the league locked up into 2015. That makes beyond no sense.
This lineup would truly make me consider watching hockey for a few years.
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jun 9, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
I don’t see eye to eye with ABS usually, but I gotta co-sign on this one w/ him. Alot of the points he brings up are what I’ve said before…how these trades really wouldn’t make sense for the other teams involved…..and even if….it would be a borderline disaster….they wouldn’t be a very good team….the defense would not be good…..DW would take ALOT of heat for constructing this team….etc
Love both your comments ABS and JB
But consider this. While I agree that SA is not gonna trade Parker consider this. If SA does move him it is because they are in Luxury tax hell, and their extension of Ginoboli guarantees that. As for Duhon and Harrington, yes they are Free agents however neither guy is signing for league minimum, and the Spurs only have a Mid Level and Bi-Annual to offer them. As I detailed before both guys would fill needs, and as you point out Parker is declining, so it is doubtful that they get more back for him than two serviceable players. Plus the move gives them Salary cap relief, which could be used to add players the following year. As for who you don’t trade for consider this:
In exchange Memphis will receive forward Kwame Brown, guard Javaris Crittenton, guard Aaron McKie (who the Lakers signed earlier today), the draft rights to Marc Gasol and first round picks in 2008 and 2010. That is who Memphis acquired for Pau Gasol! I would argue Duhon and Al are more valuable commodities. Like I said stranger things have happened.
Obviously, if someone wants to offer David Lee the 13 mil he is looking for then he will take it. However, I do find it interesting that signing David Lee for an average 10 mil a year is foolish, but you are certain that someone is gonna give him Max money. Strange view of the league.
As for Bargnani- Toronto also is in slary cap hell with alot of bad contracts. Colangelo already tried to trade him straight up for josh Howard, and Chandler plays a similar style to Howard. Chandler would allow them to possibly move the Turk giving them more cap space, if chandler plays well they re-sign him maybe if not he will have effectively helped them clean possibly 21 million off of their books for 2011. Not bad move considering some of the free agents available next year. (Who based on the new CBA may not be as expensive.) As for his stats consider this, he FG% has gone up each of the last two seasons as has his rebounding and shot blocking. Last year he shot 47% and avg 6.2 rebs and 1.4 blks in addition to avg. 17.2 pts per game. The guys numbers are trending up and he turns 25 in October. Worth the risk I would say. If we pass on the move if it is available, we might be back here on P&T in 2015 talking about offering this guy MAX Money. Also you do remember that the draft takes place before July 1 so they may actually have Whiteside and if they do they may move him.
by Robert Currence on Jun 9, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
you have saved me time and energy
and i appreciate that :) Gallo is the only guy to get excited about in that lineup. Miller and Parker are past there prime, and we know what’s wrong with lee and bargarnia (clyde)
"Game Knows Game"
LOL
Trust me If Donnie does this he will get death threats! But somewhere around February when the Knicks are say 10 games over .500 people are gonna warm up to this group.
by Robert Currence on Jun 9, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
agree to disagree then
we may have our differences, but you’ve got by respect bobby c.
"Game Knows Game"
I agree to agree with Ray Smuckles on this one
I think this is a team that the wheels start to fall off. Many thoughts come to mind and just looking at this lineup doesn’t scare me one bit for some reason, but my main thought that keeps coming back is it’s a team that relies on breaking down and wearing out defenses while hustling pillar to post to defend, and eventually the wear and tear catches up to key guys. I just think every team needs a couple guys to do the dirty work and to intimidate or at least rough up the other team. You may not like “enforcers” like Rodman, Artest, Horry, Bowen, Oakley (forgetting about his present foot in mouth syndrome) – they may not awe you with stats, but they could sure get other the other teams skin or or totally throw their rhythm out of whack. Throw a guy like that into this mix and I might stop shaking my head.
Totally agree
but stats support those guys too. Rodman especially used avg like 2 or 3 more rebounds than anyone else in the lig.
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jun 9, 2010 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
you chose...poorly
-face disintegrates, last crusade style.
"Game Knows Game"
by Ray Smuckles on Jun 10, 2010 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Fine so if Varnado is there at 38
You draft him, he will foul enough guys hard to make even Oakley happy.
by Robert Currence on Jun 10, 2010 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Varnado, or maybe trying to trade something for Ronny Turiaf
may be your only answers, look at the guys you listed, none except Artest are even in the league now, and Artest isn’t going anywhere. I haven’t seen a lot of Varnado, but what I have seen the kid seems to like contact. Hey he was even committing a foul in his profile picture on here, and it looked like a pretty hard one at that.
But I want you to shake your head at this line up. That is the point. I love irony and either way this line up will not disappoint. Donnie would get killed in the media if he did this. Marc Berman would be frothing at the mouth so hard he would be able to even type his columns let alone make sense. And for the D’Antoni haters, this lineup would be Perfect.
D’Antoni would first of all over praise and over sell this group. And since this group actually has more guys that can play his style than any of his PHX teams D’Antoni will try to play even faster than he played in PHX. And when he fails to even win 30 games while giving up 150 a night, which is what many people would fear before the season starts he will be fired. And after Tom Thibodeau pisses off Lebron in Chicago and gets fired, We could hire him as coach, and bring in the GM from San Antonio and we would be winning championships every year. Unless of course D’antoni’s system works, Tony Parker stays healthy and provides leadership, and the Knicks play some semblence of Defense end up winning 50+ games and end up in the Eastern Conference finals. Then the Donnie and D’Antoni haters might have a problem. But a team of skilled players who can go 8 deep with scorers can’t possibly be anything but a lottery team right?
by Robert Currence on Jun 10, 2010 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions
bury this horse man
who is the distributor if parker is likely hurt again? who is scoring in the post? The two most important roster spots could potentially remain empty. And look at the rest of your post; should read IF the system works, IF parker is healthy enough to be a floor leader, if they play defense, if they win 50, if they get to the conference finals. Throw in there IF they have the right attitude…none of these guys strikes me as a real vocal leader.My point is that this team is not worth all of those gambles. In this position, i’m expecting the knicks to do something better. thats all. If they go this way and succeed, i’ll be the first to admit i was wrong.
"Game Knows Game"
by Ray Smuckles on Jun 10, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Is this going to be another ABS v Currence back and forth?
thats getting kinda boring…
Besides, plausible or not, what would be so wrong in breaking it down for consideration??
"you're the Rod Thorn in my Chris Bosh side."
by Chris Child's Fist on Jun 9, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL NAW
Just wanted to know why he sees it as impausible and a soft lineup. I think it is soft as in these guys do not have a physical style of play. But I don’t think they are soft players as they would be intimidated when up against a team with a physical style.
by Robert Currence on Jun 9, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
hmmm
As the Knick front office monitors all of the latest chatter about LeBron James, the team is putting just as much emphasis on planning an alternative course of action in case James sign elsewhere.
Several sources tell Alan Hahn of Newsday that the Spurs are “clearly ready to consider moves” for Tony Parker.
The Knicks would prefer to work a deal for Parker before July 1 in order to bolster their free-agent chances, but David Lee may need to be part of a sign-and-trade offer.
If Parker can be acquired but James still slips from their grasp, the Knicks would go after a free-agent big man — Amar’e Stoudemire, Chris Bosh or Carlos Boozer — and, with any remaining cap room, look to sign Joe Johnson or Rudy Gay.
The team does not appear to have any intention of waiting another season to make dramatic improvements to the roster. With or without James on board, Donnie Walsh and his staff are preparing to enact an aggressive plan to build a contender this summer.
by Robert Currence on Jun 10, 2010 9:54 AM EDT reply actions
wow
it is a good time to be a knick fan
"Game Knows Game"
by Ray Smuckles on Jun 10, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Good new I guess
Lee for Parker, sign Amare and then get Gay or Johnson? I can’t see how the Knicks won’t be improved with that.
I’d hate to see Boozer, I don’t like him at all. Bosh..I don’t like him at all either but at least its better then Boozer.
Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit
by FreeBradshaw on Jun 10, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I almost hate to say it but
I’d take Bosh over Amare in this scenario, especially if he and Wade make themselves a package deal which rules out Joe Johnson. If it’s Bosh and Gay or Johnson I take Gay.
Oh yeah and as for trade impossibles
Robert Tractor Traylor= Dirk Nowitzki
by Robert Currence on Jun 10, 2010 2:43 PM EDT reply actions
that was just draft picks
cuz if you’re going like that, Vlade Divac = Kobe Bryant
Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit
by FreeBradshaw on Jun 10, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
point is some crazy shit has happened in terms of trades.
Dennis Johnson = Rick Robey 4 time all star finals MVP, for a guy who avg. 11 mins a game for his career. Don’t tell me some crazy shit can’t happen. Hell Duhon and Harrington or sign and trade for Lee is almost charitable considering some of the trades that have gone down.
by Robert Currence on Jun 10, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
yea...
but at the time, Traylor for Dirk, or Vlade for Kobe, wasn’t all that crazy. Some people thought bringing Marbury back to NY wasn’t crazy either, and the guy is a cancer.
Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit
by FreeBradshaw on Jun 11, 2010 7:56 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah, Kobe wanted to play for LA so he forced Charlottes hand.
And few people were scouting European players at the time, so Don Nelson DID pull a steal.
I dont know why some commentators consider the Divac/Kobe trade a huge ripoff. Of course LA was getting the better of it, but Kobe forced Charlottes hand when he refused to play for them. The Lakers had all the cards. Much like Steve Francis refusing to play for Vancouver when they drafted him. I hate that shit.
"you're the Rod Thorn in my Chris Bosh side."
by Chris Child's Fist on Jun 12, 2010 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
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