A thread for Chris Paul trade proposals.
by Seth on Jul 21, 2010 7:56 PM EDT
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PrintIf Ken Berger's report is legit, then I imagine plenty of y'all will want to share your proposals for the Knicks to acquire Chris Paul. Please try and keep your wacky ideas confined to this thread, so the madness doesn't infect other discussions and stories. I'll certainly post more on the front page about this if more news emerges, but for now, let's keep it here.
A few things:
- Remember that free agent signings can't be traded until December 15th. I'm not sure how that works for players acquired in a sign-and-trade, though, and neither is Larry Coon:
For sign-and-trade transactions, the initial trade which completes the transaction is obviously allowed, even though it occurs right after the player is signed. What's not clear is whether the player's new team can subsequently trade him prior to three months or December 15. While a literal reading of the CBA might suggest that such players cannot be subsequently traded, the league actually considers this situation to be undefined, and won't resolve the matter until a team actually tries to make such a trade.
Be nice to Hornets fans.
Have at it.
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This, purely by its nature, is a very icky thread.
Like, Eddy Curry underboob icky.
"He's the straw that makes the drink go."
by Thelonious Dunk on Jul 21, 2010 7:58 PM EDT reply actions
but that's where gogurt comes from!
"Why does green mean that's the color green? Why can't you say another word for green being green? Know what i'm saying?" - Stephon
"Anyway, you should check out the movie "Black and White," which actually stars Allan Houston. It’s not a comedy, but rather a really serious and emotional movie." - Wilson Chandler
by ny knickerbocker on Jul 21, 2010 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Shit.
Where’s Francis the Vomiting Man when you need em?
"He's the straw that makes the drink go."
by Thelonious Dunk on Jul 21, 2010 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course.
Necessary evil, on par with rectal exams.
"He's the straw that makes the drink go."
by Thelonious Dunk on Jul 21, 2010 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
yea...sucks to get those hopes up again....
should be interesting to see what gets leaked to the media. If nothing happens, Berger;s full of shit.
But if it starts to blow up……
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 21, 2010 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions
eh....
CP3 makes $14.9mill. So have at it after that I guess.
All I know is that TD, Chandler, Gallo, Randolph are 4 better young pieces then the Lakers and Magic, the other team’s have.
I said in the other thread, as long as they keep Randolph or Gallo (preferably Gallo..I like great shooters in Pringles O), do what you gotta do. I kinda don’t really care after that, since to me…CP3 is the best player in the NBA when he’s right.
Also, I really would not like to see Okafor come to NY…should this happen. I dunno if that’s even possible, what’s the Knicks cap at this point?
Go New York Go!
Amen on both fronts
Chris Paul is, by far, my favorite non-Knick to watch play.
"Dishin' and swishin' in transition"
by Serious Garbage Time on Jul 21, 2010 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions
we got close to a minimum salary
form what i understand. so basically, we are maxed.
twitter.com/aighttho
http://aightthen.tumblr.com/
Hi, how are you this evening?
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 21, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Be Cool, Honeybunny.
"He's the straw that makes the drink go."
by Thelonious Dunk on Jul 21, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for telling us that
"we believe in comebacks"
Jerry being Jerry
by Jadden Hopkins on Jul 21, 2010 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions
There's really much else to talk about until October, so fuck it
Orlando has nobody to trade. They’re out. If the reports are true, the guy is the Knicks’ to lose. If the Lakers are willing to trade Bynum, that’s the bar you gotta pass probably with a deal including Gallo or Randolph, definitely not both. If the Lakers won’t move Bynum, and it really is NY/LA/ORL only I don’t see how the Hornets find a better offer than Wilson, Walker, and Eddy’s contract.
Who knows what happens to Felton, but if this is Donnie’s equivalent of signing Jerome James and Eddy Curry in the same offseason, it could obviously have been worse. It’s a far cry from the state of things 5 years ago.
As far as it being icky…it really is. Can you think of two more shit upon cities than Cleveland and New Orleans? Tough summer.
by Dutchmarau on Jul 21, 2010 8:58 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
orlando has the best assets
vince carter’s contract expires next year, conceivably, as it is a team option. they can take on okafor and give back gortat and jameer nelson. they could take on james posey and give back pietrus’ expiring contract. they can throw in daniel orton.
"I've hacked into your brain. You're throwing a party and no one's showing up."
Why would the Hornets do that? They would want talented young guys in return, not solid vets. Carter (washed up, even though it’s an expiring, but that does nothing for the Hornets because they need young talent), Gortat (good backup center, but that’s it), Nelson (good point guard, but the Hornets have Collison), and Pietrus is a goo bench player. Not nearly enough for Paul.
because unloading okafor's onerous contract
would make dealing chris paul worth it? because nelson and gortat are more valuable/tradeable than okafor?
because it allows them to properly rebuild?
"I've hacked into your brain. You're throwing a party and no one's showing up."
I hear you on the cap space but
The Knicks can do that, too. Throw in Turiaf and Azubuike to the Walker/Chandler/Curry mix and you aren’t paying the Polish Hammer through the middle of the decade.
You mean he got a job working for stub hub?
Good for him. It’s tough to make the life adjustment when one’s basketball skills fade.
by fuhry on Jul 22, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
its not for lack of skill, or skills in decline
that dude just doesn’t want to put it all on the line.
i dislike vince carter, and he is the original (pre-bosh) reason for me to hate the raptors
regardless of your or my feelings, people like to see him play. and thats GOT to be attractive to a team in financial dire straits. its a side-show. but it has the propensity to “work” at stub hub.
twitter.com/aighttho
http://aightthen.tumblr.com/
This is true.
But the Hornets hate so spend money. The extra $5 million on Carter’s contract might be cause for concern rather than celebration for them, even if it’s only one year.
Well Cleveland is #1,
I’d put Detroit and Buffalo above NY is the realm of god sh*tting on those cities.
I’m a Buffalo guy. Four straight Superbowl losses are rough but honestly, this past decade of no playoffs is a million times worse. Four Superbowl losses in a row is still better than almost any alternative. The circumstances under which the Sabres lost in their two Cup appearances and in their more recent Eastern Conference Finals appearance (and how they let that team’s two most important players go) are pretty tough to swallow, though. Luckily I (and New Yorkers.. then again they also have the Mets) have the Yankees to root for, even if them winning isn’t even that satisfying frankly, because the Bills, Sabres, and Knicks know how to break your heart and shatter your soul.
Buffalo guy here, too
Was wondering how long it’d take before somebody brought B-Lo up. A pretty shit-upon city in its own right.
Oakland Athletics * St. Bonaventure Bonnies * Green Bay Packers * Buffalo Sabres * New York Knicks
by RyanFromBonas on Jul 26, 2010 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions
i knew the rumors wouldnt be quiet for long around here
i think this will all come down to okafor’s contract, they have to try and move it, if one of these team can make it work and eat it, thats where he will go
QUESTION PEOPLE QUESTION!!
If we get Paul… What happens to Felton?
"As humans we strive for success but live with fear. If success was inevitable, fear cannot exist" Michael Kelley
You think he'd be okay with that?
We’ve been praising him and telling him he’s a lock at starter, then we get Paul and bench him? I dont know.. Maybe we include him in the deal? I would love for him to be a backup for Paul though.
"As humans we strive for success but live with fear. If success was inevitable, fear cannot exist" Michael Kelley
by MikeTheIntern on Jul 21, 2010 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions
So if we wanted to trade players before decmeber 15th
This is the best package
Douglas
Gallo
Curry.
Hmmm, if he wants out before the start of the season this is what we can offer.
"As humans we strive for success but live with fear. If success was inevitable, fear cannot exist" Michael Kelley
by MikeTheIntern on Jul 21, 2010 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions
i think they would be more interested in randolph than gallo. they have peja for another yr and randolph has ties to the region (beyond his athletic freak of natureness)
by BronxBeliever on Jul 22, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
but we can't trade randolph until december 15th
and paul wants out before the season starts…
i really don’t want to see danilo go.
"Why does green mean that's the color green? Why can't you say another word for green being green? Know what i'm saying?" - Stephon
"Anyway, you should check out the movie "Black and White," which actually stars Allan Houston. It’s not a comedy, but rather a really serious and emotional movie." - Wilson Chandler
by ny knickerbocker on Jul 22, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we could (shudders)
Since we got him in a trade, couldnt we trade him again right now? As opposed to Felton who we signed.
only guys who cant be traded are
felton amare.
Toney does what the douglas do. And no one can do what he does b/c doing it without being Toney Douglas just doesnt make it do what it do
*out of players ppl would want
although we like fields.. he is still unproven in nba games
mosgov and rautins jordan arent really considered trade assests
Toney does what the douglas do. And no one can do what he does b/c doing it without being Toney Douglas just doesnt make it do what it do
Maybe something like this
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2cn9nsh
Maybe throw in a 1st rounder if the Knicks need to.
i would love them
to hold onto AR and gallo.
i guess its not possible.
I am a fan of both the mets and knicks... so just kill me now.
It is possible to keep AR and Gallo
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=253fx3m
Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitudes...
What if the Knicks did something like this http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=283m7qe and a future first rounder maybe, and then they turn around and trade Felton, Gallinari, Turiaf/someone else to make the salaries match, and maybe a future pick for Danny Granger when the trade restriction expires on Felton? I picked Indiana since they are looking for a point guard. That would be crazy! Paul, Walker/Azubuike, Granger, Stoudemire, and a decent center if they can find one (maybe the new guy that they got from Europe). That would be fun to watch go up against the Heat.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
lol its a joke but if this gets it done i would tattoo the dons face on my arm lmao
by J3TSFANFORLYF3 on Jul 21, 2010 10:34 PM EDT reply actions
Well I know one thing is for sure.
That toast Paul made at Melo’s wedding was legit. It wasn’t a joke. If we are on the list of teams he wants to go to, him mentioning a trio with Stoudemire, Melo and himself was campaigning not joking.
"As humans we strive for success but live with fear. If success was inevitable, fear cannot exist" Michael Kelley
word.
and well…I kinda don’t wanna do this, but you can bet your sigmoid colon that if the Knicks find some way to get CP3….Carmelo’s not signing that deal and is a Knick next year.
Now I’m gonna throw up.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 21, 2010 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions
im sorry but if they get carmelo and paul with stat we are the best team in the nba hands down…..maybe im gettin ahead of my self but that is a devastating force to be reckon with
by J3TSFANFORLYF3 on Jul 21, 2010 11:00 PM EDT reply actions
eh...
after throwing up….speculating is harmless.
So yea, CP3, Melo and Stat is better then those clowns in Miami. You get a true point who can shoot from the outside better then those clowns. You get Melo who can score better then those clowns. And you get Amare who’s far less puss then Bosh.
If I were asked straight up…either one trio or the other, I’d choose CP3-Melo-Amare. I know about the injuries too, they fit together better.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 21, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
That veats bosh wade and lebron. Idgaf how much people say they gonna be the same players with each other but they arent.
If their stats take a hit it isnt gonna be Lebron Wade and Bosh. Its gonna be Danny Granger, Monta Ellis and Lamar Odom. Thats who they will become. Sooooo Melo, Amare and Paul would be better then the Heat or cHeat like some like to call them.
"As humans we strive for success but live with fear. If success was inevitable, fear cannot exist" Michael Kelley
by MikeTheIntern on Jul 21, 2010 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
*Beats
"As humans we strive for success but live with fear. If success was inevitable, fear cannot exist" Michael Kelley
by MikeTheIntern on Jul 21, 2010 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Looks like the wheels might be starting
On what I referred to a couple weeks back as“My Dream Scenario”
IF this does happen, the way I see it playing out is: This Trade
Leaving our depth chart looking like:
C – Okafor/Amare/Mozgov/Jordon
PF – Amare/Okafor/Gallo
SF – Gallo/Chandler/Fields
SG – Walker/Felton/Fields/Rautins
PG – Paul/Felton
I know people don’t want Okafor, but I think he’s the key to NO even considering it. On the bright side he’s really not all that bad and he does what Amare doesn’t, the dirty work of banging the boards, blocking shots and getting high % put backs…essentially a rich man’s Turiaf.
SG would be a scramble, and unless Walker or Fields REALLY step up I’d expect Paul and Felton both on the floor as much as matchups allow…until we can find the right situation to turn Felton into a solid starting SG (Richard Jefferson or Andre Iguodala maybe?).
If all the crack in the Bronx somehow falls into our pipe maybe we turn Felton+Gallo+Moz or Chandler into Melo, but I don’t think that’ll happen. I’m also not totally sold on Melo being that much better for us than the alternative of a sharpshooting Cock and a solid starting SG.
No reason to cry in our cornflakes if we don’t get CP3…but it sure is nice to have real hope for him and Amare running the PnR at MSG, THIS YEAR.
Make it happen Donnie ;^)
by Left Coast Cowboy on Jul 21, 2010 11:12 PM EDT reply actions
did you really suggest
starting Okafor over Stoudamire?
by Taylor Bartle on Jul 22, 2010 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions
He's just using them in different positions...
I don’t think anyone outside of Emeka’s mom would start him ahead of Stat.
"He’s dumb as rocks, stubborn as a mule, and cannot be reasoned with. He’s dangerous." He's James Dolan.
by $100M Contract on Jul 22, 2010 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not sure about that trade
I don’t know how I feel giving up all we got for Lee…we lose a lot of depth this way. I think Okafor isn’t a HUGE upgrade from Turiaf, and I hate the idea of losing Bookie with our 2 guard situation.
Donnie's bout to beat the NBA game like he got a cheat code
My trade proposal...
Let’s send curry and chandler out there. Done and done. Hornets don’t wanna spend money, and I seriously doubt that Donnie would ship out Gallo. He BETTER NOT ship out Gallo. Would be devastating to me. I’m willing to part with Toney Douglas, but damn I would miss that dude.
I think best case scenario (for us obviously): We give up those two second rounders we got in the lee trade and send out Curry and Chandler. It works out in the trade machine. If they take on Okafor’s contract, we try to ship him out by the trade deadline. I’m willing to part with Turiaf, Felton, Buike, Mozgov and Walker, like em all, just not as attached to them as Gallo or AR’s potential.
P.S. Donnie Walsh deserves a banner in the rafters at the garden. Even if this trade doesn’t happen. That dude is making us relevant all by his damn self.
"He’s dumb as rocks, stubborn as a mule, and cannot be reasoned with. He’s dangerous." He's James Dolan.
unfortunately
I think if Chris Paul is going leaving NO, Okafor is 100% coming with him because there is no trading an awful contract like that without hitching it to a star. And if CP3 does come, Okafor is going to be wearing orange and blue for a long time, for the same reason. Also, if I’m New Orleans, my starting offer involves getting back both Gallo and Randolph. If DW is a negotiating ninja maybe he only gives up one of them, along with Curry and whoever else NO wants not named Amar’e. Let’s flip a coin and say we keep AR, that’s CP3/Walker(?)/AR/Amare/Okafor,,, a pretty badass lineup. Taking on Okafor does rule out adding Melo but after December we could trade Felton for a decent SG and be in serious business.
Yeah I feel you,
But why do I feel like trading Gallo or AR would be a really bad thing for our team? I want to see how Gallo has improved this year before I trade him. Same for AR. I think having a great point guard is great but not necessarily what makes or breaks a team. I think we just need a solid PG and Felton is just that (I’m also scared of CP3’s injury). Man, why do “sources” do this to me? I’m sick of all this hype. I’m looking forward to seeing how our lineup performs as is. I really believe we have a solid team here already. But whatever, in Donnie I trust.
"He’s dumb as rocks, stubborn as a mule, and cannot be reasoned with. He’s dangerous." He's James Dolan.
by $100M Contract on Jul 22, 2010 1:58 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd like the post Miami Threeway NBA
"He's the straw that makes the drink go."
by Thelonious Dunk on Jul 22, 2010 2:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed, losing our best youngins' and taking their worst contract is too much even for CP3
If they hold firm on needing AR+Gallo they’ll be getting a Curried CockaRandolph sandwich, hold the Okafor.
Otherwise we become a better version of Atlanta or a newer version of the Stockton/Malone Jazz – a team with enough talent to be a 2-4 seed each yr., but not enough to win it all…and no cap room or strong trade options for 3-4 yrs.
Think I’d rather take what we have and roll the dice…then hitch our wagon to CP3, Amare, Okafor and role players.
by Left Coast Cowboy on Jul 22, 2010 6:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Dont worry!!
I find it very hard to believe that the Hornets are gonna trade CP3 before the start of the season. I don’t want Paul before the season, I wanna see the ex warriors play and I personally think we will. Unless the Hornets get some sick sick offer from someone Paul is staying his ass in New Orleans still celebrating the Saints Super Bowl. Enjoy it Chris.
"As humans we strive for success but live with fear. If success was inevitable, fear cannot exist" Michael Kelley
by MikeTheIntern on Jul 25, 2010 4:37 AM EDT up reply actions
This is the only way I'm taking Okafor in this.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2flc5yq
Go New York Go!
Yep.
Maybe throw in a 2nd rounder to sweeten the deal.
"He’s dumb as rocks, stubborn as a mule, and cannot be reasoned with. He’s dangerous." He's James Dolan.
by $100M Contract on Jul 22, 2010 6:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Dont even want CP3 no more...
My trade would go something like this….
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=25ztup5
"He’s dumb as rocks, stubborn as a mule, and cannot be reasoned with. He’s dangerous." He's James Dolan.
by $100M Contract on Jul 22, 2010 6:14 AM EDT up reply actions
That would be a great trade for the Knicks
But I think the NO reply would be something like THIS
by Left Coast Cowboy on Jul 22, 2010 6:14 AM EDT up reply actions
DAMN YOU!!!
That was my next reply! Well played sir.
"He’s dumb as rocks, stubborn as a mule, and cannot be reasoned with. He’s dangerous." He's James Dolan.
by $100M Contract on Jul 22, 2010 6:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Sold!
All we need to do it is have Dolan buy the Hornets via a puppet ownership group. Then they can be our advanced D-League squad and our home for soiled contracts.
by Left Coast Cowboy on Jul 22, 2010 6:21 AM EDT up reply actions
How about this bad boy right here...
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2admw5u
"He’s dumb as rocks, stubborn as a mule, and cannot be reasoned with. He’s dangerous." He's James Dolan.
by $100M Contract on Jul 22, 2010 6:25 AM EDT up reply actions
We need Layden-esque type
To come out and make this happen for us.
"He’s dumb as rocks, stubborn as a mule, and cannot be reasoned with. He’s dangerous." He's James Dolan.
by $100M Contract on Jul 22, 2010 6:31 AM EDT up reply actions
i think saying that takes 17 wins away from OKC is a little underestimated
by Taylor Bartle on Jul 22, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
probably take out TD and put in Gallo or Randolph
but I dunno. Okafor’s contract sucks. They should be giving the Knicks a reach around if they take that sack of shit contract away.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 22, 2010 6:47 AM EDT up reply actions
The Lakers could always go and offer Odom/Bynum for Paul/Okafor and blow folks outta the water
But I don’t see why they would. Short of that, the Knicks offering Toney Douglas and Wilson Chandler plus cap relief would beat any other offers. Assuming these rumors are real and Paul really is done in New Orleans no matter what, they’re already fucked.
I agree man
Okafor’s contract almost…almost I say, counters all of CP3’s value. I don’t really think we should need to give Gallo or Randolph unless another team pulls out a huge offer that we’re not anticipating.
I like Free's proposal
Toney Douglas, Chandler, Turiaf, E Curry, and Walker or Azubuike, plus a 2nd rd pick, and cash incentives since Walsh basically is in control of dolans deep pockets right now.
Okafor is no way near wanted on our squad. But this CP3 trade is clearly a move in the rebuild direction for NO. That 4 year deal at 11.3 isnt pretty..especially for a underachieving number 2 overall pick. But the silver lining behind that contract is that he is a decent guy. Avg’d a doublt double in all but 1 year (10pts 9boards), is pretty good shot blocker. and is mobile. His numbers should increase bigtime in this system. He is a terrible FT shooter though. ugh..
Toney does what the douglas do. And no one can do what he does b/c doing it without being Toney Douglas just doesnt make it do what it do
Its gotta be Bookie to make the salaries work.
and probably more realistic I guess has Gallo or Randolph in there somewhere.
NO’s biggest MO is to rebuild and be very cheap. So if they don’t want Okafor, the price can’t be as high.
It would be tough to strike a balance, cuz I’m sure Donnie would want no part of Okafor (that means absolutely no shot at Melo), but that means the price most likely includes Gallo and Randolph.
Here’s to hoping that if it happens, NO’s GM is an idiot, or at least shackled by his owner’s desire to pinch pennies. Also by CP3 limiting the choices (tho I dunno if anyone can say he has a real say in it anyway…)
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 22, 2010 7:56 AM EDT up reply actions
true
this could all be like Bosh’s wish list that came out before FA…
in 2 days we’ll see a report saying there was never a list of teams that Paul mentioned. lol.
Toney does what the douglas do. And no one can do what he does b/c doing it without being Toney Douglas just doesnt make it do what it do
Gallo
is untouchable.. that we already know.
Randolph is the wild card.. i really hope we keep him. But if it was between the two.. we’re keeping Gallo nuts hands down.
But back to randolph..if walsh could config a deal keeping him here… than SPLASH!!…. id have to get a new keyboard. If he is dealt though, which he most likely will be asked for, that leaves us very short in depth and with NO 6th man candidate. Who we gonna use…walker or bookie? He is a question mark right now with an injury that is supposedly goin to hinder his lateral movement. Who else is there?
Toney does what the douglas do. And no one can do what he does b/c doing it without being Toney Douglas just doesnt make it do what it do
Ray Felton!
and Randolph too.
Peep: most likely, if they do it without Randolph and Gallo (highly unlikely), it’ll be cuz they agreed to take Okafor.
You got CP3, Walker, Gallo, Amare, Okafor
then Felton, Randolph, Mozgov..etc, off the bench.
Looks a bit slim, but remember, CP3 offensively speaking is as good as any player in the NBA..maybe THE BEST. Him and Amare would make every other team toss their salad on the O end.
And at least Okafor is a decent interior defender…I guess.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 22, 2010 8:09 AM EDT up reply actions
oh shyt
forgot about felton lol… but he isnt really a scorer? I guess his ability to facilitate the O could result in him assisting his way to scorese by other players.. resulting in a good 6th man? iono….just speculating.
But we both rigth on randolph being good as gone. I think even if okafor is included randolph is gone..But This could be NO’s only way to get rid of Okafor so the poker faces will play a big role here.
Toney does what the douglas do. And no one can do what he does b/c doing it without being Toney Douglas just doesnt make it do what it do
Nah
We can’t trade Felton till December. I was thinking about that too, PG for another PG plus other parts (Curry, etc..), but we have to keep Felton until the trade deadline…at least.
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.
Vince Lombardi
Not until the trade deadline, which is in February.
December 15th is the date.
Also, the Hornets probably are fine just having Collison run the point, and may not even be that interested in Felton anyway.
he wasnt saying trade felton
he was answering the question of who would we bring off the bench after the possible trade.
Toney does what the douglas do. And no one can do what he does b/c doing it without being Toney Douglas just doesnt make it do what it do
I know.
I was talking about the bench, not trades.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 22, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
actually, gallo isnt untouchable
on espn they said a knicks source said that amare is the only untoucable knick, everyone else is worth it to get paul
although u may be right b/c none of us really know
as soon as you said “on espn they said….”
i stopped reading
Toney does what the douglas do. And no one can do what he does b/c doing it without being Toney Douglas just doesnt make it do what it do
As far as the teams involved
—Orlando has talent now(vince gortat) with a getting better player(nelson) and a expiring Pietrus (5.3M), Brandon bass at 2 yrs 4M.. other than those i cant see anyone else having trade value.
-Lakers have Bynum who is injury prone and is about to have surgery on the 18th @ 2 years 13.7M
and odom @ 3 yrs 8M, along wit expiring 5.4M Vujacic. THey too cannot trade fisher until december.
Toney does what the douglas do. And no one can do what he does b/c doing it without being Toney Douglas just doesnt make it do what it do
dont kno why that had a strikethrough
Toney does what the douglas do. And no one can do what he does b/c doing it without being Toney Douglas just doesnt make it do what it do
The question is
Do we rather take Okafor’s deal, or give up Gallo/Randolph? Cause if there are ongoing talks, then that’s what Walsh has got to be considering.
I don’t know if the salaries match up, but I’d do TD, Walker/Azu, Chandler and Curry for Paul. That’s a lot of young talent and/or expiring deals. Would NO do that trade though? I don’t think so.
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.
Vince Lombardi
Okafor's deal
is an absolute killer. I love Chris Paul, but Okafor probably has the worst contract in the league outside of Joe Johnson. I used to think that any trade that gets us CP3 is an instant win for us, but the fact that I’m questioning it now speaks volumes as to how fucking awful Okafor’s contact is. Who gave him that? Who was he bidding against?
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jul 22, 2010 10:12 AM EDT reply actions
for real...
I’m thinking the gotta keep both Gallo and Randolph to take back Okafor.
I’m almost just saying screw this and just go with who we gotz.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 22, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah
let felton spin for a year.
Deal with trading for Paul next offseason. I wish he didnt do this now.
I am a fan of both the mets and knicks... so just kill me now.
let felton spin until the 15th of december
then ship him to new orleans with azabuike a can of worms, a couple second round draft picks, a first rounder, and a bag of flaming shit
twitter.com/aighttho
http://aightthen.tumblr.com/
watch when eddy curry kills it for two months
and then we dump him on new orleans. everybody will love it if we get paul, but it will futtbuck us if we give up randolph and gallinari. other dudes are gonna produce, and the hornets can’t possibly desire to move paul, no matter what he says.
twitter.com/aighttho
http://aightthen.tumblr.com/
Gotta take Okafor
Anyone who wants Paul has to take Okafor. The Hornets just hired Dell Demps from the Spurs as their GM. The guy comes from the best organization in the NBA and there’s no way he’s gonna get fleeced in a Paul deal.
The Knicks will have to take Okafor with Paul and also give up Gallo in the deal. There is no way around those two things. So here is a deal that works. The Hornets are getting three very good pieces and an expiring contract. Knicks can also throw in some cash (approx $3M) to help Curry’s salary but that doesn’t impact the numbers in the trade.
that was the wrong link. here’s the right one
by gujuknick on Jul 22, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
and I wouldn't do that.
CP3 is great, but that;s too much. Put Chandler in for Gallo, and I think that’s more tolerable.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 22, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
well you don't have Okafor in that trade....
and I’d go and take back Gallo, and give them Wilson Chandler instead of Gallo.
And I’d do that no problem. Randolph, TD, Chandler and Curry for CP3…done. Have a nice day New Orleans.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 22, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
check the second link. messed up on the first one.
there is no way the hornets do the deal without gallo. they have all the leverage over paul right now. he’s still signed for two more years. they don’t have to do anything unless a great package comes along.
that’s why i think they shouldn’t gut their roster for him. go after melo next summer and deron williams or paul the following summer. we aren’t going to build a contender overnight.
Randolph is on par with Gallo.
One or the other should be enough to get the deal done.
Especially if the Knicks are going to take back Okafor, they shouldn’t have to give up both. They’d be really helping them out taking back Okafor’s monstrosity contract.
But I agree with the last point. Just role with what we got. I wanna see Felton in Pringles offense, and see Gallo and Randolph on the same team.
You gut the whole team for Paul…its basically Paul and Amare, with not much else, and not much available. And probably no shot at Melo anyway….
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 22, 2010 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
Either get Okafor and miss out on Carmelo, but have Gallo and Randolph+everyone we keep, or trade one of Gallo/Randolph for CP3, then have a shot at Carmelo next summer if he doesn’t sign an extension
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.
Vince Lombardi
The only reason I think they have to include both is that none of the guys the Knicks are giving up are proven. Gallo and Randolph have all the potential in the world but there is no guarantee either will become a star. Chris Paul is a top 10 NBA player (top 5 when he’s fully healthy).
If I’m the Hornets GM I don’t trade a superstar for potential. I have to get a star in return. But I don’t think many teams have the flexibility to do that.
I don't understand why Chandler can't be included in this?
Chandler is not a POS. He could become a very solid player if he’s used right, i.e as a SF in a team that doesn’t need him to shoot 3’s (like it would see NO would).
Randolph and Chandler is a fine haul. There is really no reason to go with Gallo and Randolph.
Gallo fits the Knicks better then Chandler and Randolph anyway..for the most part.
Just sub in Chandler for Gallo, and the deal is fine.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 22, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Because GMs love Gallo. He has all the makings of being a great inside outside F in this league. Read what Alan Hahn just wrote on Twitter. Gallo would have to be any deal that Knicks propose to Hornets.
Do you understand your’e getting Chris Paul back? Arguably the best PG in the NBA. You’re not dealing with Isiah Thomas as the Hornets GM. Demps is a smart guy who knows what he’s doing. Be objective and eliminate the bias of a Knicks fan.
you understand who's on the Knicks?
They’d have shit on the team. It’s basically Paul and Amare..and friggin Okafor. They’d have shit with the ability to add nothing.
Chandler makes sense from a team perspective.
You don’t need to send 2 high ceiling prospects if you’re giving them cap relief. No way.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 22, 2010 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed. I’m not saying to do the deal. I’m actually against it. Run with what we got and get Melo next summer. But the Hornets are not trading Paul to the Knicks without Gallo in the deal. Period.
that last part is where I'm thinking your wrong.
but we’ll see.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 22, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
If you were the hornets GM would you trade Paul without getting Gallo in return knowing how high his ceiling is and his shooting ability?
I would doubt other teams value Gallinari the way NY does
"you're the Rod Thorn in my Chris Bosh side."
by Chris Child's Fist on Jul 22, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't doubt it
Anyone who hasn’t putting in the scouting time, yea sure. But Gallo has a pretty damn nice pedigree of talent and attitude. He’s a stud.
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jul 22, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
depends...
if I’m dead set on getting out from Okafor’s contract, and my owner’s up my cornhole insisting that it get done…I’d accept Chandler instead of Gallo.
Chandler’s not a POS.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 22, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Think you're dead on
The only bargaining advantage that we gave over Orl and LA is Randolph and Gallo. Orl has more valuable expirings and LA has more immediate talent. Its either give up Gallo, or don’t even make an offer. Unfortunately I think the same things holds true for Melo as well.
I might be drinking the Kool-Aid, but right now I’m standing pat.
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jul 22, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
i think randolph and gallo have a similar cieiling. giving them cap relief with curry + randolph chandler and TD i think is pretty damn close to getting it done
by BronxBeliever on Jul 22, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
im only gonna do one
but its gonna be a little different than the ones ive seen
Paul and Posey
for
Curry, Randolph, Douglas, Chandler, Walker, +3mil
leaves us with
Paul, Felton
Buke, Felton, Fields
Gallo, Posey, Fields
Amare, Gallo
Turiaf, Mozgod
Kills our depth but id do it
I actually share a little bit of that feeling.
Randolph seems poised to breakout in this system. Who is to say we don’t have a big 4 set up with Amar’e, Randolph, Gallo, and Felton distributing and leading out there?
I really kinda wanna see this team develop, as opposed to dealing out 2 of those guys (randolph/gallo) for CP3 and Okafor.
Overall, Okafor would do some very nice things next to Amar’e, I have no doubt…I’m just not sure I’d rather have that trio as opposed to all this youth and upside we have.
I agree. We’ve been dealing with overpaid aging stars for long enough. I’m excited to see the team start from scratch and build itself into something. I’m not expecting a championship right away or even in the next three years. Just good, competitive basketball that we used to see in the Garden.
What other teams can say they have a strong shot to get Melo next summer and a guy like Deron Williams or Chris Paul the summer after? If the Knicks can start winning again with some great complementary pieces like Gallo and Randolph, the players wil be attracted to the bright lights and possibilities of NY.
the fact that you think this
is one of the very reasons paul wants out of NO
He is arguably better then Wade, yet nobody ever seems to see him play.
I am a fan of both the mets and knicks... so just kill me now.
I'm with you 100%.
All this CP3 talk is making my soul rot a little.
"He's the straw that makes the drink go."
by Thelonious Dunk on Jul 22, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Salary seems to be the only downside to picking up Okafor
Look, I’m not putting stock into the trade machine, but it does have us having a better record with him in the trade, for most scenarios. We are also in dire need of a REAL center and even though he’s not a 7 footer, he rebounds and defends, which Amare does neither very well. The salary issue is due to us pining for possible future free agents, possible being the key word, when this give us a legit chance of bashing those 3 idiots in Miami. For me, the key is not to give up Randolph and Gallo, and I much rather have Gallo stay, we’re invested in him.
by Sticky-Nickles on Jul 22, 2010 12:01 PM EDT reply actions
It's still a terrible deal
And having him for 4 years ruins any flexibility we might have gained this summer. If it means not giving up Gallo, I’m for it, but we’d have to find a way to make salaries match, and Okafor and Paul both have near max deals ( I don’t know exactly if they’re max, but they are pretty big). Okafor is not worth that. Paul’s coming off an injury too. Plus the fact that he signed with LeBron’s crew has my alarms going off. I don’t know, it just looks like we’d have to give up a lot to get him, and I’d rather the team stay the way it is.
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.
Vince Lombardi
+1
Okafor’s contract + Paul’s contract + Amare’s Contract + Resigning Gallo – First Round Draft Picks = Impossible add talent.
I mean thats a good team, but flexibity is yuge in this league, especially when you have injury risks like Paul and Amare.
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jul 22, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Guess who led the league in...
Double doubles
offensive rebounds
defensive rebounds
total rebounds
blocked shots
and shoots 53% from the field
http://goo.gl/w8fk
Can't be right since he had 9 boards a game and only 27 double doubles
No clue why his player page ranks him #1 in those stats but check this out as a sampling of how accurate that is
erroneous data
get to class
"Game Knows Game"
by Ray Smuckles on Jul 28, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Okafor makes a lil over 11 mil a year so not near a max contract and Paul is making around 14.5…..If we could grab the two of them and keep gallo I would do it in an instant… You woul dhave the best pg in the league (when healthy), being backed up by a legit starter, with amare, gallo, and okafor up front. That would be one of the top three teams in the NBA depending on the bench. And with finding out we got a couple of second round picks the david lee trade you could throw those in there too to see if a package of chandler, td, randolph and the picks for paul straight up.
How can you do a deal for their best player without including your best player? That makes no sense.
Regardless, if this screws us out of a chance for Melo I say don’t do the deal. Paul is an unrestricted free agent in two years. This Knicks team isn’t winning a title in the next two years anyway, so why trade for him when you can just pay him instead?
it makes sense cuz your taking an albatross off their hand.
The Knicks are doing them a favor, big time..if they did that.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 22, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Currys expiring contract
could lead them to needed flexability for the future. They will also get a core of young bucks in the process. Our best player has never been even considered and won’t be (Amare). Also, what kind of performance will they get out of CP3 if they force him to stay there. While we may not win a championship immediatly, we make ourselves true contenders. I’m sorry, you’d be nuts not to take a shot at getting a top 3 PG. As far as Melo, would you throw away this opportunity to improve greatly now, on the possibility of Melo tomorrow? What if he does sign that extention?
by Sticky-Nickles on Jul 22, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
They still have to play this season
Nobody wants Eddy Curry. If they want an expiring, they’ll take Vince Carter.
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jul 22, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Okafor has an escalating contract
that goes up a million each year and ends in 2013-14 with him making nearly 15 mill. For a team building for the future, its an absolute franchise killer.
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jul 22, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
and here's one we get to keep toney in this one
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=28rt259 though it takes four teams and the problem is that i’m not so sure if dumars will agree
That is the dumbest thing I’ve ever read. I hope to god you didn’t come up with that. If you did, may God rest your soul.
The Hornets would get Curry and Azubuike in return for giving up Chris Paul? HAHAHHAHAHA.
That's just outlandish! LOL
If we’re gonna speculate, let’s make it semi-realisitic and contain it to the two teams in question.
by Sticky-Nickles on Jul 22, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Dumars would essentially end his career in Detroit with that trade
Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitudes...
Any movement of CP3 from NO
is gonna suck real bad for the Hornets fans. However, he warned them that if there weren’t changes he wanted out. Said that before FA began.
by Sticky-Nickles on Jul 22, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Yo the trade machine
only matches salaries. There’s no talent matching.
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jul 22, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
A few points
1) There is absolutely no way that we can keep Gallo and Randolph AND avoid getting Okafor. However I think there is a legitimate possibility of us getting Paul while only including one of those two OR taking on the contract.
2) New Orleans wants to (or should want to) trade Paul. People may freak out at me saying that they don’t want to give up one of the 5 best players in the NBA, and no one wants to part with some of the best talent but the fact of the matter is that it makes more sense to the team to get rid of him for the following reasons.
A) They will not compete over the final 2 years of his contract
B) They want to get Collsion some play time so he can develop.
C) They want to get some young prospects in exchange for Paul before he leaves.
D) Curry’s expiring contract will be valuable to them not only because it will allow them to cut costs (they are a small market team and want to keep costs low) but also as a trade piece to a team looking to make a run at Melo (giving them more young prospects/picks)
E) They desperately want to move Okafor’s contract and the only way to do that is by dealing Paul
3) We want Paul and want to be able to make a run at Melo.
So my proposal is as follows: We give up Chandler, Turiaf, Curry, Toney Douglasand Buike for Okafor and Paul.
Hornets wind up with a starting rotation of Collison, Buike, Chandler, David West, and Turiaf. Collison and Chandler are 23, Buike is 26, West is 30, and Turiaf is 27. All except for West are pretty young. They throw this rotation into the fire for a season and see who steps up. Also they will be giving Julian Wright and Toney Douglas serious minutes to see if they can step up. Later this season when teams flip out at the deadline they can trade Curry for either another young player or a few picks. Also we could give them a few 2nd round picks. I don’t think they would turn down cap space, a group of budding players, and a few picks.
Now for our side, we would have a starting lineup of Paul, Wlaker, Gallo, Amare, Okafor with Randolph, Felton, Fields, and Mozgov off the bench. We sacrifice some depth but improve our C and PG spots as well as our first man off the bench (Felton).
Now, to see if we can have our cake and eat it too: after 12/15 we try seeing if we can package Felton and Okafor for expring contracts, Felton is considered to be a good deal and Okafor a bad one, maybe worse than Felton’s is good, but after a half season in D’Antoni’s offense (even as a 6th man) someone will value him enough to take him off our hands with Okafor. Even if we need to kick in a few picks (hell I’d even mortgage our next 3 drafts for this). Then is there really anywhere else Melo would want to go but us?
2011 Roster: Paul, Gallo, Melo, Amare, Randolph. Sure we only have Mozgov and Walker, Fields, and Rautnis coming off the bench but that’s all we need.
I really don’t think this is far fetched.
Hornets still have
Marcus Thornton they love. Julian Wright they’ve about given up on I’d think. But yea…interesting thoughts.
what with the MELO talk??
This move if for CP on the knicks… melo still has an offer in front of him and an season to play and isnt currently on the block.. Now also knicks mgm would like to keep that OPTION open, lets not just put melo in a knicks starting lineup when discussing CP.
Now while agree wit most of what you said. I do tho think that randolph is the guy they would covet after hearing that gallo is off the table. So randolph, chandler, douglas, Curry is what id do. i want to keep chandler but we’d have to offer more talent than just chandler turiaf TD n curry
Toney does what the douglas do. And no one can do what he does b/c doing it without being Toney Douglas just doesnt make it do what it do
I think you meant Randolph
At the bottom there, but I’m not sure we do have to give him up. I think Chandler AND Buike is a good replacement for Randolph for them, also I’m just putting a hypothetical Melo in there, even if we don’t sign him we would have a decent amount of caproom and could pursue a real SG
if we get Paul and Okafor
We can’t afford Melo.
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jul 22, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Which is why
I included the section about trying to package Okafor with Felton for fodder. Even if we just get Paul we can’t affor Melo because of Felton’s 7 Mil
Yea
So…not only do you think that we can get Paul without giving up Gallo or Randolph, but you’re then convinced we can package Felton and Okafor for “fodder”. Right…
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jul 22, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think It's so ridiculous
That a team that has no chance of getting under the soft cap would trade an expiring contract for a starting PG and starting big man
Oversimplifying a bit
Thats Close to 22 million a year in contracts for 2 non all-stars. I don’t know of any team that would want that. If anyone wants to add 22 mill in salary, they could probably do a lot better. I think you’re underestimating how bad of a value Okafor is.
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jul 22, 2010 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Well
if we’re throwing up figures Felton makes 7 and Okafor makes 11.5, so that is 18.5 not 22. It seems like a small difference but at the same time it is a difference. Also I’m not saying that this is something that is guaranteed to happen, like “follow these steps and this is where we’ll end up” just a possibility in the future. There are a number of teams that are well over the soft cap and will not be getting under it any time soon, at least not enough to make a splash in free agency, and the only way to get legitimate players is by getting rid of what expiring contracts they do have. I know neither of them is flashy but both average 15 PPG, both are relatively young, and both are contributers and would be starters for a number of playoff teams.
I am very pleased with what we are going to war with right now, this is just a “what if” scenario. I’m not going to catch myself drooling over false promises of superstars, I’m going to be happy with who we have and if something happens as far as a trade goes I will look at it in a positive way and be happy with that. In the Don we trust.
Okafor makes 11.5 this year
then 12.5 the year after, then 13.5, then 14.5. It’s simply not a contract that you just flip. Nobody would make a big deal about it if it was 11.5 a year, its the fact that it starts kinda bad and then just keeps getting worse. And for team like the Knicks with no draft picks, it makes it nearly impossible to rebuild.
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jul 23, 2010 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
How do the knicks not have draft picks?
They owe a 1st to Houston in 2012 and have all the rest of their 1st round picks. Having 9 out of 10 1sts for this decade is greatness and a resource. Walsh has also collected a hand full of 2nd rounders. The Knicks, shocking I know, actually have draft picks!!!!!
Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitudes...
The 2011 pick is owned by Houston
unless Houston’s is better. That pick is untradable. Houston also owns the 2012 pick, so thats off the table. You aren’t allowed to trade first rounders in successive seasons, so that renders 2013 moot from a trade standpoint. So, as relates to the post, the Knicks will not have a tradable draft pick for 3 of Okafors’ hypothetical 4 years with the team. If you trade for Okafor, you won’t get rid of him. That’s the point.
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jul 23, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Now that the Knicks no longer have the worst roster in the NBA
I wouldn’t think the Knicks 1sts would be as appealing to any team now and in the future like they were to the Rockets in the Jeffries trade. However, your point doesn’t preclude the Knicks from creating a similar package they sent to the Rockets, swapping picks one year and then trading the next years pick.
They could also package picks from every other year and throw in 2nd rounders. So things can be done because the Knicks have flexibility and they have flexibility because they have draft picks.
As far as trading Okafor, I don’t think he’s an asset teams would want until his contract is expiring unless packaged with a young star(Gallo) or a top 5 draft pick, which the Knicks probably won’t ever have.
Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitudes...
The Knicks cannot trade for Okafor anyway if they want Melo
Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitudes...
read above bro
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jul 23, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Not True
We could trade for CP3+Okafor, and still have a decent trade package for Melo, sending Felton, Gallo and Moz to Denver.
Not counting on either CP3 or Melo happening…but they both could, even with Okafor.
by Left Coast Cowboy on Jul 23, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
where's the cap room coming from?
Amare is 16
CP3 is 15
Okafor is 12
Melo is 17
That’s 60million or thereabouts, for 4 players.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 23, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
We'd be over the cap
That’s why we’d get Melo via trade, not as a FA signing.
If we want the cap room to sign him outright we’d need to avoid Okafor and probably drop Felton for an expiring contract if we got CP3…the trade (or sign and trade) route seems more likely to me.
by Left Coast Cowboy on Jul 23, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
you can't trade and be over the cap
if you’re under the cap pre-trade.
The salaries have to match.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 23, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
You can trade while over the cap, just can't sign FA's
That’s how we made all those trades the last 10 years, and why Cuban wanted to meet with James.
Trades have to be within 125% of matching salaries…we’d probably need to add a little filler for Felton/Gallo/Moz to be close enough to Melo, but it’s not that far off.
by Left Coast Cowboy on Jul 23, 2010 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions
which the salaries don't match up
cuz there’s nobody here.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 23, 2010 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Here you go
Trade #1 – Getting CP3+Okafor
Trade #2 – Getting Melo
Because we need to wait till Dec. 15 to trade Felton and Moz, I couldn’t use the exact players in #2, but salaries for AR+Curry are 13.24M, where Gallo+Felton+Moz are 13.1M. We could also use Walker, rookies, and/or draft picks instead of Chandler in #2…my point is that it’s possible to land CP3, Okafor and still be in play for Melo.
by Left Coast Cowboy on Jul 23, 2010 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions
so.....you cloned Eddy Curry?
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 23, 2010 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Because we need to wait till Dec. 15 to trade Felton and Moz, I couldn’t use the exact players in #2, but salaries for AR+Curry are 13.24M, where Gallo+Felton+Moz are 13.1M.
Both trades work
by Left Coast Cowboy on Jul 23, 2010 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd expect us over the cap w/ Okafor
If NO makes the deal I think they’d look to shed payroll, and take on ~5Mil less than Paul+Okafor. Up a bit I posted the NY/NO trade that makes this happen…but really I think the longest shot in all this is NO making that trade.
Portland would seem to be able to offer the most competitive trade package…our only hope is if NO really wants to go young and cheap, preferring AR to guys like Greg Oden and Rudy Fernandez.
by Left Coast Cowboy on Jul 23, 2010 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
THe fact that teams would be forced to take back okafors contract
will eliminate all demands that NO receives CP3 value in return for CP3.
Of the mavs, lakers, knicks, magic, there isnt really a team thats clear cut capable of absorbing both cp and okafor.
There’s no way gallo, randolph, TD curry all get traded in that deal.
If so, then DW isnt stamping on tht. Especially after signing felton. Everyone is stuck on the 3 stars in NY theme. i say fk that. If we get a fair deal in for CP3 then hellz yea. But dont give up the farm for him. Not this soon after injury along wit a salary cap killer in okafor.
Toney does what the douglas do. And no one can do what he does b/c doing it without being Toney Douglas just doesnt make it do what it do
+1000000
Right on brother. Your 1st sentence is exactly what I’ve been saying and thinking too.
CP3 by himself gets at least one of Gallo/Randolph, maybe even both, plus some other solid pieces, even if only Curry’s expiring.
CP3 with Okafor’s contract? Take out at least one of Gallo/Randolph, still gotta give Curry’s contract and maybe some other pieces, but there is no way we give both of those young studs up if we’re taking Okafor’s contract. No way.
Totally agree
NO wants to get rid of Okafor? Fine. No Randolph (I’m not even considering Gallo an option). They want Randolph? Fine, we wont take Okafor. If they don’t comply with that then I don’t want Paul.
not saying this post deserves recommendation...
…but if y’all rec this thread enough, it can stay up top and we can have it up there to send anyone who wants to talk cp3.
just was about to do this
Toney does what the douglas do. And no one can do what he does b/c doing it without being Toney Douglas just doesnt make it do what it do
Maybe my opinion differs here.
But I actually really like Okafor the player. His career averages are 15 pts 11 brds and 2 blocks per game…I dig that. Someone earlier metioned that he brings what Amar’e lacks and I think that is very underated. Now before I get owned with the contract talk, I know the contract sucks. One of the worst is the NBA easy, but we would be getting a solid starting center and one of the best players in the NBA for essentially David Lee, Eddie Curry, and Wilson Chandler.
The proposal that has been reported, idk how reliable it is, is Curry, Chandler, Azubuike, Randolph, and Turiaf for Paul and Okafor.
Don’t kill me!
would playing the 2 guard
become something that TDD
I think you'll find many of us Do agree on Okafor the Player
But Okafor the Contract really kinda spoils that
"you're the Rod Thorn in my Chris Bosh side."
by Chris Child's Fist on Jul 22, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Im sorry for being the contrarian on this love fest for our scrubs
But in all honesty, outside of Gallinari and Amar’e every Knick is available to New Orleans for a deal to get done before the season, and Felton gets included with our rookies if we wait till December; you can take that to the bank. If we get CP3 regardless of the asking price I will be psyched for the season. If we don’t get CP3 I am still psyched for the season. But adding CP3 makes us a much better team regardless of how good Felton is and how much “potential” Randolph has. Potential gets you a foot in the door, but once you’re in, you need to prove you can stick around, and the Jury is still out on Randolph as far as I’m concerned.
Never underestimate the power of a neck brace and wheelchair. In Donnie Walsh I trust!
Because
1) They’d get back young, fun, talented players who can excite fans AND have team friendly contracts.
2) They’d save a bunch of money and get out from under the Okafor contract anchor
3) They have a disgruntled star, who, if he’s forced to stay in NO will slowly sap the team’s spirit if he really doesn’t want to be there.
4) They don’t have better options given the circumstances
by Left Coast Cowboy on Jul 22, 2010 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Curry/Chandler/Turiaf/Azubuike/Randolph for Paul/Okafor, then Gallo/Felton/Mozgov for Anthony after December 15th.
Randolph’s an LSU kid and has explosive upside, and NO can renounce every player in the trade except for Turiaf (one year at $4.1M, I think). They also get the Okafor salary relief.
Now, to get Melo, we have to take in 125% + $100,000 of our outgoing salaries, and that is satisfied here. Mozgov is a big and is only [reportedly] two years guaranteed, Felton allows Denver to renounce Billups’s non-guaranteed contract, saving an extra $14M to the $3M the Melo trade saves, as well as giving them another year to groom Lawson. Plus, they get Gallo.
This is just how you do it. I’m not saying I do it. But I probably would if I could.
My name's Gus Johnson; I get buckets.
This has probably already been said here, but I was not reading through all these comments.
My name's Gus Johnson; I get buckets.
why...would you do that?
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 22, 2010 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions
New Orleans Trade offer for the Knicks
by Left Coast Cowboy on Jul 22, 2010 8:45 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I think
We can keep TD, and give them one of the 2nd rounders from the Lee deal, and throw in the Liberty for good measure.
"He's the straw that makes the drink go."
by Thelonious Dunk on Jul 22, 2010 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
my idea
paul for W chandler T Douglas and a 1 round pick
okay i have cerebral palsy arthris and chronic fatigue as well i have a great life and loveing folks some days are better than other days i got a make-a-wish in 2001 and saw my favorite team the broncos it was the trip of a lifetime i wish everyone couild have gotten to enjoy that with me i know some of u hate the broncos and that okay but i bleed organ and bule for my mnr fans but i bleed orange and blue denver will rise again resident broncos fan for every blog resident broncos for stampede bule thanks shvd98z24 real name jeremy woodard nettleton high class of 02 yes i am a raider
I could live with this,
but I don’t think the salaries match up, and New Orleans are going to want either AR or Gallo back if they’re giving up Paul.
"He's the straw that makes the drink go."
by Thelonious Dunk on Jul 22, 2010 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions
u cant give up
AR because u just got him from gsw
okay i have cerebral palsy arthris and chronic fatigue as well i have a great life and loveing folks some days are better than other days i got a make-a-wish in 2001 and saw my favorite team the broncos it was the trip of a lifetime i wish everyone couild have gotten to enjoy that with me i know some of u hate the broncos and that okay but i bleed organ and bule for my mnr fans but i bleed orange and blue denver will rise again resident broncos fan for every blog resident broncos for stampede bule thanks shvd98z24 real name jeremy woodard nettleton high class of 02 yes i am a raider
we can, before the start of the season, just not RIGHT NOW
I think it’s 60 days for Acquired players in Trades.
FA Signings are the guys we have to wait until December 15th.
ive heard 3 diff things
we cant trade till 60 days
we cant deal more than one player from the same trade in one single trade until dec 15
we can deal em together dont matter unless they were FA signings
Toney does what the douglas do. And no one can do what he does b/c doing it without being Toney Douglas just doesnt make it do what it do
Not positive
But the 2nd one I’m pretty sure we can eliminate. The Dec. 15 thing is for FA signings. I KNOW that. Maaaaybe it also applies for traded players, but I really don’t think so.
oh ok
did not know if u got paul u are a top 3 team in the east
okay i have cerebral palsy arthris and chronic fatigue as well i have a great life and loveing folks some days are better than other days i got a make-a-wish in 2001 and saw my favorite team the broncos it was the trip of a lifetime i wish everyone couild have gotten to enjoy that with me i know some of u hate the broncos and that okay but i bleed organ and bule for my mnr fans but i bleed orange and blue denver will rise again resident broncos fan for every blog resident broncos for stampede bule thanks shvd98z24 real name jeremy woodard nettleton high class of 02 yes i am a raider
no trade?
lets think about this every one wants melo an cp3 but whats really the best way to do that .the best way 4 both sides is 2 wait 4 the free agency period unless u can get cp3 4 agood tarde like wilson,picks and bench players but i dont give up gallo or ar.why would they want 2 come 2 a team that we had to strip down 2 get them so we could what be like miami and sign abunch of vets and maybe an ok player or 2.theres no garuntee that you’ll win like that,but if u add them 2 the team that u already have in place like i think we do now then when they sign u are an instint contender thats what i think donnie has in mind and its what we should be thinking about the knick franchise not just players because as we should know best. things change from year 2 year and i think they(melo,cp3)should feel the same way if they want 2 really win .if not then its on 2 PLAN B anit that right donnie im starting to like the sound of that already GO KNICKS!!!!!
Really appreciate the spirit
But it would be much much much much much much much much much more appreciated if I could read it without it making my eyes bleed.
Well he's led the league in steals...twice
and has averaged 2.4 over his career (which is incredible). He’s a good rebounder for a PG too (one of the best not named Jason Kidd).
He’s not big, so he’ll get posted up by bigger PG’s, tho well…aside from Kidd and Deron Williams, I dunno that there’s many big PG’s who post their man up. Maybe Andre Miller.
The guy is worth it, plain and simple. It would suck to give up all these guys, but the reality is…CP3 makes players better around him anyway.
Also kinda sucks that it would be done now, when guys like Korver and Reddick are off the table (as well as Felton…who well, sorry to say would be a bit overpaid as a backup PG even tho its a small contract)
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 23, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Btw while everyone is talking about making "big 3" teams
the Lakers just keep adding depth. Matt Barnes and Ratliff signed. Compare Miami’s roster to LA and you know from that example that the best 12 will win Championships not the Best 3.
Knicks have a lot of quality depth and I don’t believe they should erase that so quickly. Keep our flexibility! If CP3 wants to be a Knick make him wait until he’s a free agent, when it works in our favor to get him.
Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitudes...
Even if you wanted to go 4 deep, the Lakers have the edge
If they didn’t already at 3. Kobe, Gasol, and your choice of Odom/Artest/Bynum? Given the success they’ve had already and the fact they’ve been playing together for some time, I don’t think I could take the three from the Heat. Wade’s gotta get there without Shaq and the refs first. Lebron’s gotta get past game 4 of the Finals first. Bosh has got to take his high heels off first.
I'd have to take Kobe, Gasol, Bynum and the Lakers PG over what
Miami has in a head to head comparison. Paul needs to be smart and see that the Lakers are highly likely to win 1 to 2 more championships. If Paul can have the patience, he and Carmelo Anthony will be on a team sooo deep and talented that Miami or the Lakers won’t stand a chance. All Melo and Paul have to do is wait and it will all come to them in perfect timing.
Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitudes...
yo guys,
i’m reading all this, and i’m not even skipping over comments… yo i’m reading all this stuff. i keep on reading and paying attention and not skipping comments, and reading the new comments as they appear. and then i’m even re-reading all these comments. cus i love speculation, man. if i could speculate professionally, you know i would, right?
twitter.com/aighttho
http://aightthen.tumblr.com/
Word has it that
the speculators are speculating that some speculation will be done when there is some more speculation to do.
Donnie's bout to beat the NBA game like he got a cheat code
most assure
that is warren G my man
Toney does what the douglas do. And no one can do what he does b/c doing it without being Toney Douglas just doesnt make it do what it do
Thats been sampled in 3 different songs
the reference is Young Guns. A badass movie!
Most people think All Along the Watchtower is a Hendrix song too… doesn’t make it correct though…
"you're the Rod Thorn in my Chris Bosh side."
by Chris Child's Fist on Jul 26, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
The only way I'll end up happy in this situation
Is if the trade goes down mid-December or at the Trade Deadline. Pulling the trigger and trading for Paul in the offseason is a much bigger shot in the dark than most people are thinking. We can’t be sure that CP3 is even 100% at this point, or if he’s showing signs of never quite getting back to where he was before the injury. Knee injuries are NEVER good for high usage guards. Just ask Penny, Allen Houston, or Shaun Livingston. Waiting until mid season gives two huge advantages:
1. The Knicks can evaluate the talent and the team they’ve put together at this point. I think it’s crucial to see how these players work and play together before they start getting blown up and shipped off. It’s hard to justify (or dis-justify? fuck yeah, I just birthed a word) trading someone like Randolph before we ever see how he plays in MDA’s system .
2. It gives us a chance to see how well Paul is back. Nuff said. If he doesn’t look like he can regain that first step that made him a top 5 player in the league, is he worth shipping off a crate of chilluns and absorbing Okafor’s clusterfuck of a contract?
Anyway, I’m refusing to think about this “rumor” any more this summer. I’m checking out.
"He's the straw that makes the drink go."
by Thelonious Dunk on Jul 23, 2010 3:27 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Not to mention
It also allows the option of throwing Felton in. I’m not sure if that gets NO hard because they already have a young buck to replace Paul, but his contract can be opted out next season correct (or the following?).
And it allows the Knicks to further gauge Gallo and Randolph, hopefully by then they solidify themselves as DNFT (the T stands for Trade) status.
Exactly.
There’s no downside to waiting at all, unless Paul gets dealt somewhere else. I think it’s worth taking that chance.
"He's the straw that makes the drink go."
by Thelonious Dunk on Jul 23, 2010 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions
And I think the risk of him going somewhere else under Donnie’s nose is pretty minimal. New Orleans will make him well aware of any offers burning hot on the stove, and he’ll have his chance to outbid if he gets itchy.
I really like the idea of waiting. Another possible benefit that may just be completely made up in my head is that going into this season as is will make them have to really fight for wins, come together as a group, and form chemistry. If they are blessed with Paul and Amar’e out of the gate, it could possibly feed the youngsters a bit of an entitled mentality. I just don’t see any downside to letting things play out and the team growing, rethinking this strategy if it becomes obvious a deal is absolutely imminent.
can we just sign armon johnson
when the blazers cut him loose? and give the chris paul talk a permanent rest?
twitter.com/aighttho
http://aightthen.tumblr.com/
our recent draft picks?
I haven’t read the whole thread so i’m not sure if any were mentioned as possible chips in this deal. But thoughts? The Knicks (in my lifetime anyway) have historically warmed the bench with draft picks with some exceptions (Ewing as a #1 pick being the most obvious). As much as I would love to see that trend reversed with Fields and company, CP3 is mighty good and draft picks are mighty cheap. I agree with everyone that Okafor’s deal really makes this trade shady from a Knicks perspective. Deep down I truly think New Orleans makes him play this year, but we need something to talk about!
by total hermination on Jul 23, 2010 4:38 PM EDT reply actions
The thing is we have to view this both ways
New Orleans wants value back for Paul. So the real question for a trade is what do THEY expect as a return? Cus shit, yeah I would give them a bunch of future draft picks and bench players. i mean, damn, its easy for US to put together a package of guys WE are ok getting rid of… but gotta consider what New Orleans wants here.
"you're the Rod Thorn in my Chris Bosh side."
by Chris Child's Fist on Jul 23, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I mean really.. if it was US looking to trade CP3... we would be demanding of returning the top player of another team
"you're the Rod Thorn in my Chris Bosh side."
by Chris Child's Fist on Jul 23, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I would want
at least one young guy with superstar potential… a talented big man, a 1st round draft pick and cap relief.
So
Gallo, Randolph, our 2014 first rounder and Curry for Okafor and Paul.
Could we get them to take Chandler and Turiaf instead of Gallo and Randolph? Probably not. Chandler and Randolph or Gallo and Turiaf.
They might insist on Gallo. I bet they would at this point.
They are not desperate to trade him, yet. They really have two years and they can try to add some good pieces in that time and maybe not lose him.
i haven't read the whole thread either
in fact i haven’t read your whole comment.
twitter.com/aighttho
http://aightthen.tumblr.com/
Thats the painful truth
Do the hornets really want or need Gallinari (our top available player) with some other throw ins? I really don’t see this happening. Remember NO doesn’t have to listen to his “list” of preferred teams anyway. They can trade him to wherever the return works best. I learned my lesson on Lebron (getting over-gassed) – I think i’m gonna shut it down until Melo time.
I just thought of the missed pick of Brandon Jennings….could that have bitten us in the ass here too? Maybe, maybe not.
by total hermination on Jul 23, 2010 5:01 PM EDT reply actions
Yes, New Orleans could absolutely use Gallinari
for a long time they have had a hole at SF.
"you're the Rod Thorn in my Chris Bosh side."
by Chris Child's Fist on Jul 23, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
on the Jennings thing...I'd assume he'd at worst be already gone to Houston
or at best…we’d all not even give a crap about CP3
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 23, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
signing off
I can’t control what anyone do. I hope the Knicks have a good team with some players I like.
Thank God CP3 has Orlando as his #1 trade destination!
Finally we can stop talking about this stupid scenario and focus on reality aka our current team…
fk broussard
but funny how all this speculatin has got a lot of us ready to blast this idea of paul here..
im ready to FOCUS MAN!
Toney does what the douglas do. And no one can do what he does b/c doing it without being Toney Douglas just doesnt make it do what it do
I left a comment on this article’s quotation on the SBNation’s NYK page. The source is an “NBA executive familiar with [Walsh’s] thinking”. That translates to “not a member of the Knicks front office”. Which means he’s just speculating about what Walsh would do like anyone else. They then use this quote as evidence to support its own conclusions and then make that conclusion the hook for the article. The rest of the article could have stood fine, but they wanted to spice it up.
It may be true, but it’s crap journalism.
Based on what we've all seen during the last two years
That doesn’t sound like anything at all Donnie Walsh would say or think.
If the ultimate goal is to get Paul AND Melo...
It seems the only likely chance of getting Paul WITHOUT giving up Gallo or Randolph is to take on Okafor.
With Okafor on the books, it’s going to be very hard to squeeze Melo in via trade or sign-and-trade (and impossible, obviously, via straight up sign) whenever the time comes. Does it then become inevitable that we’d have to give up Gallo or Randolph (or both) in THAT deal?
Granted, if we’re sitting on Paul-Melo-Amar’e, giving up one of those two still leaves us with one guy that has the potential to be a 4th elite player (and giving up both still leaves us with 3, which ain’t bad). Point being, if the goal is to get both and it is inevitable we lose one of Gallo/Randolph, then it might not make much of a difference to give up one of the two for Paul, particularly if it avoids having to take on Okafor.
Just a thought on the big picture. As I’ve said many times in the few hours I’ve been a registered member here, I’m fine if they don’t get either in the long run or at least wait and try nabbing who they can when it comes to free agency time. This roster is in place to compete for the last 2 playoff spots, has some rugged defenders, a lot of athleticism, and should be the most fun Knicks team to root for in ages. Gallo and Randolph could both end up being Knicks legends and success without resorting entirely to ‘mercenary’ means would be even sweeter. And if it is inevitable we lose one or both of these guys in pursuit of megastars, it’s better to hold off and see what they can do this season if the deals will still be there at that time.
I want CP3 here but...
I want him here badly, he is one of my favorite players and in this up tempo system
he would be a beast
but giving up Gallo and Randolph and even Tony Douglas and taking back Okafor
I cant do that
Gallo Randolph Douglas are all good young players
Gallo and Randolph could be really good
giving them up and taking on a horrible contract in Okafor cripples us in getting Melo next year
we gotta wait this out guys
Felton Randolph Amare Azibuke Turiaf Rautins Fields(watch out for this guy) is a really good start
for the first time in a long time the Knicks are back and we cant make a move that would make us take 10 steps backwards after moving 15 steps forward
CP3 I want a Knick badly but we just gotta be patient
if the Knicks give up Gallo AND Randolph
they’re dumber than I thought. At this point I don’t want this trade to happen. It’s either going to cripple the Knicks’ bench or their cap flexibility for next summer.
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