Some Questions Regarding the Knicks' Depth Chart
by Seth on Jul 25, 2010 1:28 PM EDT
in Miscellaneous
232 comments
For the first time since the dawn of mankind, the Knicks are flush with young talent at pretty much every position. (Note: The phrase "barring any further offseason changes" applies to the entirety of this post and discussion. Join me in my world. It's much more peaceful here.) We have every right to be thrilled with the versatility, speed, and defensive potential now in Mike D'Antoni's arsenal. That said, there are still plenty of ?uestions to be answered in training camp and thereafter.
Jump with me.
First of all, is this the depth chart?
| Point Guard | |||||
| Shooting Guard | |||||
| Small Forward | |||||
| Power Forward | |||||
| Center |
I'd guess that's pretty close to the real thing. Gallo will probably start at three alongside either Chandler or Azubuike, while Amar'e will start at the 4 or 5, likely alongside Turiaf or Randolph (the position, to me, doesn't matter that much nominally, as long as there's a help defender down low). Also, pencil Andy Rautins and Landry Fields on the ends of the 2 and 3 slots, and Jerome Jordan at the 5.
Will Coach D'Antoni play more than eight men?
Pick any box score from last year. I'd wager that only eight (if not seven) Knicks played more than 5 minutes. Granted, that was a very different team, but we know that D'Antoni prefers to keep a short rotation. I'd guess that the five guys in bold above are sure things and that Wil and Toney are set, while guys like Walker, Mozgov, Fields (Update: And Jerome Jordan. I'm a dick.) still have something to prove, with Eddy Curry as a wild card. Note that I'm leaving somebody out, which leads me to my next question.
Anthony Randolph will play, right?
The short answer is yes. Most definitely, 100% yes. He was probably the centerpiece of that trade for David Lee. Still, I'm concerned. For one, Don Nelson reportedly didn't always call Randolph's number when he could have. Nelson's decisions are about based about 10% on logic and at least 75% on Vedic astrology and/or voodoo, so that can probably be dismissed. Even still, Mike D'Antoni has shown similar hesitance to play youngsters in very recent history. D'Antoni's impatience for immaturity confined Jordan Hill to the bench, and that bro was a lottery pick! My point is that Anthony Randolph, for all of his otherworldly potential, is likely to have some lapses and brain farts on the court. The coach, meanwhile, has shown that he's got no qualx qualms with benching young guys that he "should" be playing. Thus, I worry that the first time Randolph back-rims a tomahawk or goaltends a three-pointer, his bony ass is headed to the doghouse. These worries are probably totally unwarranted, but they're bugging me.
Is there a third point guard?
Assuming the aforementioned short rotation, D'Antoni will probably be satisfied to give Felton and Douglas ample minutes as the quarterbacks and leave it at that. What happens, though, if Raymond gets injured or Toney gets abducted by evil scientists trying to clone him in order to synthesize a race of perfect human beings? Who steps in as the back-up point guard? The Knicks have expressed a fancy for Danilo Gallinari as a "point forward" before. Landry Fields was handling the ball plenty in Summer League. Andy Rautins and Kelenna Azubuike are kinda short. It's plausible that D'Antoni would just let a Felton-less, Toney-less unit run wild without a head, but is there a legitimate third option amongst the ranks, should the need emerge?
If Eddy Curry is healthy, will he command minutes?
That experiment didn't go too well last year. It's a question that we're tired of asking, but every year Curry's under contract, it gets raised. I can't even guess at the answer.
Have you seen this Timofey Mozgov quotation?
Almost totally off-topic, but...wow:
"I will work hard to make (the fans) like me," he said. "I like to block and dunk. I think everybody likes when I do that."
I'd give this guy at least 8 minutes a game based on that line alone.
During a blowout, who will fans cheer for D'Antoni to bring off the bench?
It was Jerome James for a while, then it was Nate Robinson (though that wasn't nearly as playful). Who on this roster is the fan-favorite scrub? I may have answered this question with my last question.
Update: stingy d mentions Jerome Jordan. Equally likely.
Thoughts? Answers? More questions? Let's hear it in the comments.
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Mozgov didn't know what to say. lol
I seen the interview during a Summer League game, he was nervous and Tina had to finish some of his sentences for him, He’s a big Russian though, gotta love that. Speaking on D’antoni playing more then 8, he pretty much has to. Those starters plus, Chandler, Randolph, Walker, Douglas and Mozgov. That’s 10. Only person I think wont touch the floor is Curry. If he’s healthy and looking good, better then Mozgov I’d say he’ll get some minutes.
"As humans we strive for success but live with fear. If success was inevitable, fear cannot exist" Michael Kelley
Who was the big Russian guy in the Rocky Movie?
is there a possible nickname there?
his isnt all that impressive for him to be able to play the three
For every sunset, there will always be a sunrise.
I love the fact
that basically everyone on the roster can play at least 2 positions pretty interchangeably.
Also, that’s a classic episode of Hey Arnold. Almost as good as the one when Phoebe is haunted by Emily Dickinson.
"He's the straw that makes the drink go."
by Thelonious Dunk on Jul 25, 2010 1:57 PM EDT reply actions
which episode?
and phoebe was ridiculous. she regularly sword-fought.
the spelling bee episode
Seth is the man for dropping old school Nick references
Stoop kid's afraid to leave his stoop!
"He's the straw that makes the drink go."
by Thelonious Dunk on Jul 26, 2010 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions
jerome jordan is my scrub of choice
i want to say landry fields, but when it’s really garbage time, i wanna see this spindly kid spin. it will be laughable, and affable.
i think the depth chart is more of a
felton / douglas / rautins
azabuike / walker / douglas / rautins
gallinari / randolph / chandler / fields
amar’e / randolph / gallinari
then it gets really tricky:
amar’e/ turiaf / randolph / curry / mozgov / jordan
i know i doubled up on certain guys, but i put guys where i thought they will get minutes. gallinari is a power forward guys…. he’s just young. amar’e has the skill set of a d’antoni center.
randolph is gonna be everywhere.
twitter.com/aighttho
http://aightthen.tumblr.com/
and i think we're looking at 8 man rotation
first half / garbage time you’ll see the 9-10 and extra guys.
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MDA dog-house
Concise article. I agree with your assessment of Mike’s rotation habits. I hope he does 2 things: (a) expands his rotation to accommodate and assess the new players and team chemistry; (b) does NOT employ a dog-house. This even includes Curry, if for no other reason than to bolster his trade value. [I know everyone views Curry as an expiring contract, but a few months of low-post scoring will increase his value].]. This is where Mike failed in the first 2 seasons; e.g., if he didn’t like Steph’s game, he still should have played him, because it could have increased his value instead of leading to the buy-out. Same with Nate Rob in year 2 (i know, he was traded). MIke’s dog-house also could have turned off potential FAs.
But all of that is in the past. Now is MDA’s chance to play mad scientist with this roster-look long and hard at each of the new guys, Mike.
Randolph is the only dude I can see going into the "dog house"
tho Don Nelson worships the bottle, so who really knows what goes on there. Nate Robinson is a nipplehead, so I don’t really think that benching him was just some random thing. And Marbury and Hughes were also quite the fool.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 25, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
i don't see randolph in the proverbial doghouse
because the coaches are all drooling over this guy. i think they live with the mistakes. if they persist, or he turns out to have a bad attitude, maybe they change their tune. but i don’t think that will happen.
he will learn from mistakes, and he will not pout.
twitter.com/aighttho
http://aightthen.tumblr.com/
true.
was just saying he’s the only one it might happen to, but I really don’t think it’ll be an issue. Also, it seemed that any other one it happened to, they were PG’s. Larry Hughes is just an a-hole
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 25, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Exhibit A
http://heylarryhughespleasestoptakingsomanybadshots.com/
"He's the straw that makes the drink go."
by Thelonious Dunk on Jul 25, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Mike D needs to teach in training camp...
…and let the horses loose from day 1! He should run 2 units for 8-12 minutes at a time and run the competition out of the game!
I don't think Randolph will see the doghouse
because D’antoni and Walsh love the kid. He’s 21 and he is the type of player D’antoni loves, high risk but high reward. Randolph is the real deal and he will be showcased. The Knicks are smart enough to know that they can’t afford to sit Randolph because he is either trade bait or a budding All Star that wil be a Knick for years. They have to find out what he is.
Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitudes...
I’d start Amare at the 5 and Randolph at 4. But what do I know, I’m just a nuclear physicist.
Liberty Ballers / Ridiculous Upside / @TAFKAMikeBourn
The Artist Formerly Known As The Artist Formerly Known As Michael Bourn
I'm with on that Michael!!
Have Amar’e at Center and Anthony Randolph at the Power Forward…..We have so much depth in this new Knick squad that can play there hearts out…Well, except Eddy Curry!!!
Id like a lineup of that throught the course
of a game..but i wouldnt have that my starting 5
Toney does what the douglas do. And no one can do what he does b/c doing it without being Toney Douglas just doesnt make it do what it do
There is a lot of talent on this team
and D’Atoni’s task is the find the right chemistry. For the first time in 10 years, we will get some real competition for the rotation, which does not necessarily mean 8.
some random thoughts
I think your depth chart is about right, but I would say Chandler will see some minutes at the 2, especially if Azubuike doesn’t come back strong from his injury. It’s not his natural position, but if he can’t showcase some serviceable guard skills I think he’s going to have a hard time seeing as many minutes as he did last year, because…
We are going to see a lot of Gallo/Randolph/Amar’e on the floor at the same time. I doubt D’Antoni is going to get too hung up on their postions, he’ll just see a trio of athletic 6’10"+ basketball players that can collectively run the break, handle the ball, shoot the lights out, attack the rim, get to the foul line, play defense, block shots and rebound. (Obviously not all three of them can do all of those things well, but at least one of the three excels at each of those facets of the game.) It’s going to be a lot of fun to watch. But with those three in the front court, D’Antoni will likely want to play a guard that can defend and really stretch the floor—i.e. TD or Azubuike—to play alongside Felton. So Chandler is going to have to really impress. If anything else happens this summer trade-wise I wouldn’t actually be surprised if it’s Chandler getting being traded for some additional backcourt depth, although I don’t know who, someone either really cheap or expiring next summer.
As for Randolph getting put in the doghouse, I don’t see it happening. Unless he gets injured or commits a felony this kid is going to play. I don’t really think Nate Robinson is comparable. You get a little more leeway when you’re 6’11" with ridiculous all-star upside. My hope is that Amar’e makes it his business to basically tutor AR, help him get stronger and keep his head in the game. Amar’e knows the kind of work it takes to be an elite NBA big man, and he knows D’Antoni’s system like the back of his hand. This is the perfect opportunity to demonstrate some leadership.
Third point guard? I think TD can be a great combo-guard off the bench and see a few minutes at PG every night, but let’s be honest, we only have one pure PG on the team. Felton had better bring it this year, NC-style. I think this is the perfect opportunity for him, and I like his swag. He wants to be here and he had the balls to take a short contract to prove he can raise his game to rival his draft mates CP3 and Deron Williams. I doubt he gets quite that far, but IMO his development this year is at least as important, maybe more, than Gallo or AR turning into all stars. Our PG depth is another reason I wouldn’t be shocked to see Chandler get traded.
Eddy Curry will have to come to camp looking and playing light Dwight Howard to have a prayer of getting any burn this year. Even in his prime he’d be a dead weight in SSOL.
I am irrationally optimistic about Timo. He likes to dunk and block shots! No but honestly his youtubes indicate that he’s quite good at both of those things as well as rebounding and running the floor. He’s not Olajuwon in the post or anything but he’s got a serviceable pick and roll game, and to be honest I’d be pretty geeked if he turned out to be an Andris Biedrins kind of player, for 1/3 the price. Foul trouble will be an issue this year I bet.
I already hope blowout games become the Landry Fields show.
Short rotation
I have said this before, but I gotta say it again. I HATE the short rotation.
It is a long season, and playing a few players for too many minutes burns them out and leads to injury.
In addition, if you are using a short rotation, almost one third of your team is out of the flow. If you are going into a game knowing you aren’t going to play, you just don’t stay as involved as if you know that at any moment the coach could call your name.
Then, when a member of the short rotation gets injured, one of the pine riders needs to come in, but he hasn’t been playing for a while, so he isn’t ready.
If a player is on your team, you should play him
but
he wants to play 8 guys. he had to last year because he was desperate to find a combo of players that could win.
he didn't have the talent to go over 8 deep.
Now, as the roster is constructed…he does. There’s a difference between being stubborn and not having a deeper rotation, and having absolutely nothing worth playing on the bench so you gotta tighten the rotation up.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 25, 2010 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Stats?
I don’t have the stats to confirm or deny that statement, but it doesn’t seem right.
First off, Curry hardly played, so this would mean that all the other players played every night. I don’t think that happened. If someone can tell me where to see the stats from each game, I’ll do the math.
http://www.hoopdata.com/regstats.aspx?team=NYK&type=pg&posi=%&yr=2010&gp=0&mins=0
its a little confusing because of how we had so many mid-season deals.
but look at it this way, 20 players on the team last year. and 14 averaged about 20 minutes or better. thats 7 out of 10, or 70% of the team playing significant minutes. consider that our team was basically 12 deep all year, 70% of 12 is 8.5.
so maybe i was wrong? no! i was right, because 70% or 8-9 guys are playing significant minutes, while the rest are getting spot minutes, dictated by need. you can live your life by news reports and myth, but if you watch the games- night in and night out -you will realize that everyone gets a fair shake, and it’s because d’antoni is a good coach. not because you have some ill-conceived notion fed to you by some self-righteous scribes.
twitter.com/aighttho
http://aightthen.tumblr.com/
D'Ant's always said
If he thinks a guy can help the team win, he’ll get minutes. Likewise, if he thinks only 8 guys can help, he’ll play 8 guys. It’s, like, so easy.
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jul 26, 2010 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah
looking at it that way, d’antoni definitely played around 9 guys each night. often, the 9th guy saw single-digit minutes, though. this year’s a whole different ballgame, though. i think last year’s rotational patterns were mostly warranted (save for the duhon situation and the jordan hill situation pre-trade deadline).
although
when the ship is sinking, its gotta be tough to tell the captain to get away from the helm. how do you honestly live with yourself- knowing that you’ve elected to put the (player elected) team captain on the bench?
and jordan hill could prove to be talented, but if we still have him and jeffries on our roster, we don’t have the room for felton. or, alternatively we can’t sign and trade david lee for anthony fuckin hell randolph.
there are no teams in the league that play 12 guys every game. every box score for every team, every night of the season (aside from golden state last year) has at least 3 dnp-cd’s on it. this debate is so ridiculous that i want to shout at everyone.
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good talent
first time in a long time being hyped about our Knicks guys
love the Randolph/Azibuke/Turiaf deal
loved getting Felton and Amare
hated the draft
but when I saw Fields play wow that guy is gonna be a real steal
as far as talent goes he might of been the biggest bargain of the draft
im hyped up with this lineup in the East
Felton whoever at sg Gallo Amare Turiaf
and you got Fields Douglas Chandler Randolph etc coming of that bench
personally I would start Randolph at PF and play Amare at C because I want the best players out there but Turiaf is a beast that we need at C
really the first time since Sprewell was here that im excited about the season
another golden state transplant
i’m with you 100%
i want gallinari/randolph/amar’e as my frontline, felton and azabuike or walker in the back court is plenty fine. turiaf brings a ton of energy off the bench with wilson chandler. toney douglas comes in and creates, fields/rautins off the bench for spot minutes at the end of the first half/3rd quarter. i think we’ll have talent and guts.
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thats kind of the rotation ive had in mind
because coach only plays about 9 guys
PG – Felton, Douglas
SG – Buke, Walker
SF – Gallo, Chandler
PF – Amar’e, Chandler
C – Randolph, Turaif
Obviously when Randoph is in, him and Amar’e share the center responsibility. I really like this lineup, but then were forgetting about Mozgov, who Im thinking might really surprise people this year. I just dont know how were gonna get him into games right now, but i guess well see. im sure once training camp is over, everyone here will have a lineup of 8 or 9 guys they’d like to see and somebody will be moved out of their lineups.
if mozgov keeps the ball above his head
i’ll be surprised, so that ain’t sayin much. i don’t understand why d’antoni gets criticized for his rotation, there are exactly zero teams in the league that play there last 3 guys on the bench significant minutes.
twitter.com/aighttho
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d'antoni gets criticized because
a) at one point in Phoenix, probably around the playoff year without Amare, dude was playing a 7 man rotation.
b) one of those 7 was Steve Nash, and the media gets into a frenzy that his career will be cut short if he plays more than 30 minutes a game.
that’s all. nowadays, his rotations are pretty standard besides when he throws a guy in the doghouse. i would expect to see a 9-10 man rotation this year assuming the team stays healthy.
by latrell chokewell on Jul 26, 2010 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Randolph is NOT A 5!!!!
If I can make it there, I'll make it anywhere...It's up to you, New York, New York!!!!
D'antoni is not conventional!!!
I know Randolph is not a 5… and he thinks of himself as a 3, actually. But D’antoni doesn’t think that way. Look at it this way – can either he or Amare defend other centers? If the answer to that question is yes, then maybe one of them is a 5. And then on the other end of the court, can any 5 defend him?
I’m not sure, just knowing D’antoni, I think he plays Gallo/Randolph/Amare in the front court quite a bit. The actual positions they play will not be conventional.
word.
its definitely possible that he’s a 5.
I can’t see how Randolph would be worse then David Lee as the 5, especially with Amare down there.
They’d probably be better off using him at another spot given his athleticism, but Randolph can, and most likely will, play the 5 in Pringles system.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 26, 2010 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
for real
david lee was not a 5. i don’t recall him playing the 4 until earl barron hit the scene…. and he still logged minutes at the pivot. randolph has a similar rebound rate to lee, and will actually block a shit ton of shots.
for this coach, the stye of play is to to work toward your advantages, not to fit into the traditional way of thinking. if your most talented players are a little smaller than pundits want them to be, just get your opponents on their heels, and you’ll be able to win games.
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agreed
randolph at the 5 with amar’e and gallo will give other teams fits. if it gets to the point where we’re being pushed around down low, send ronny into the game for some muscle (would have loved to have resinged kurt for that lol). if this team is running the way it wants too, other teams ‘traditional’ big men will either be: in foul trouble, too tired to do anything on the block or simply ridin the pine because the other teams coach realized our 3 big men will beat them down the court every time.
by BronxBeliever on Jul 26, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Boom
Felton pushing it down the floor, Randolph and Amare giving him two big options up ahead, Gallo lurking behind the line, defense all losing track of him because they don’t know how to handle the size and speed coming at them…
The idea of watching this makes me want the season to start right now.
That’s true but at this point there is more evidence that Amar’e can play the 5 than Randolph. I mean, if you’re playing them both as the 4 and 5 it doesn’t really matter, whoever matches up against who best plays center defensively. But, Turiaf is the more proven and better fit at center and is gonna get his minutes. We’re gonna love this guy, he’s roughneck and a lot of fun at the same time. I wouldn’t exactly count on Mozgov contributing but there’s a fair chance he’ll be able to do it defensively pretty quickly.
Point is, I wouldn’t be quick to pencil Randolph in at center, especially as a starter. We’ll see, and I’m sure he’ll get some tinkering looks there.
yea i agree
if randolph is a starter, its as the 4. but basically the argument has been made that position is kind of arbitrary to d’antoni’s sense of good basketball.
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I'm thinking of tig ol' bitties
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 25, 2010 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
wit tig ol bighs
and wide gaps in tha middle!
Toney does what the douglas do. And no one can do what he does b/c doing it without being Toney Douglas just doesnt make it do what it do
Trade chandler
He’s overrated and we should trade him while he has value. Azubuike is a much better choice at the 2.
Felton
Azubuike
Gallinari
Amare
Randolph
Randolph and Gallo have to be getting TONS of minutes so we can make these guys into stars ASAP, which will lure free agents in the next 2 years.
Is Chandler
rated high by anyone other than some Kick fans? I doubt he has much trade value (i.e. second rounder). I find him to be an acceptable 7th or 8th man and don’t think he should be moved – although if cap space is needed, it wouldn’t be the end of the world if they let him go in future seasons.
azabuike and walker
are the only real options at 2. chandler is a forward, thru and thru
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i wouldnt mind seeing TD get some burn at the two. runnin him and felton out there at the same time might not be a terrible idea if whoever we’re playing doesnt have tall guards
by BronxBeliever on Jul 26, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
me too
definitely meant, azabuike/walker getting the majority of minutes and starting. but i think toney can play off the ball with felton and wreak havoc up and down the court!
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for the reference
Toney does what the douglas do. And no one can do what he does b/c doing it without being Toney Douglas just doesnt make it do what it do
ooooh yeaaaa
i knew i didn’t understand… so i turned into a trusty wire reference. but now i rememba
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I'm sayin...
TD will be the Knicks version of Barbosa off the bench.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 26, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I think he’s overrated by people who think he should start at 2 over Buke (so long as he’s healthy), otherwise probably not. He’s a good fit backing up 2, 3, and 4 off the bench but he will never be a good fit as a starting 2 guard in this league, imo.
not unless his shot becomes something to worry about
Toney does what the douglas do. And no one can do what he does b/c doing it without being Toney Douglas just doesnt make it do what it do
Exactly, that’s the big thing. There are some other issues, but mostly just that it isn’t the ideal place compared to SF. But that’s academic unless he can get his shot down. He can spot the 2 but with the other options now (Buke, Douglas, Walker), he doesn’t need to be getting the kind of minutes at the 2 that he has seen at times in the past.
imo
he is best at the sf, and pf. On the defensive end when he played the 4, he never had his name called out.. which is a good thing.. he always did his job and wasnt a mismatch by any means… and on offfense he used quickness and short midrange for buckets.. and at times he still had a post game workking.
Toney does what the douglas do. And no one can do what he does b/c doing it without being Toney Douglas just doesnt make it do what it do
Some Randolph points....
I’m a Knick fan living in the Bay Area, so I have seen AR a lot. I know people don’t want to get over excited about a young player, but AR is not in a ‘might’ be good player category, he already is good and should be starting for certain.
Of course position is a big problem since he is clearly a PF and really cannot play another position. All this talk of him playing SF or C is not realistic – there is no chance that he can play either of those positions conventionally. He cannot possibly guard Centers or SF’ds on the defensive end. While he could probably play offense at center, he definitely cannot play SF on the offensive end.
Amare is pretty similar in that he can really only play PF, although I am sure he will find him self at center in a way similar to how he was used in Phoenix under DA.
That said, I think Knicks fans are underestimating AR in a big way. If I were a GM, taking contracts into consideration, I would trade Amare str8 up for Randolph in a millisecond. When AR was on the court in GS he was almost always the best GS player on the court (note: he played mostly b4 Curry started lighting things up). If the guy gets 40 mpg, he is an all star PERIOD. This year, ALL STAR, no doubt. Of course he is not going to get 40 mpg this year, and thus is not going to make the all star team.
This log jam is my major concerns with the Knicks. They need to figure out how to have three ‘max’ quality players on the team. Seems like Amare and Carmelo could be 2, AR could be the third if they can exceed the cap to sign him in 2 years (I’m actually not sure how the bird right would work with him since the Knicks would not have him for three years).
Agreed
Randolph at Center is the biggest dream.
He doesn’t have the strength or bulk to play a conventional 4. He’s either under-sized at the 4 or he’s to slow and un-coordinated for the 3. He’s a hybrid type mixed between a 3 and 4. Randolph will be Amare’s replacement and maybe Gallo’s replacement if D’Antoni decides to move Amare to the 5 and randolph to the 4.
I think Chandler will end up starting as the 2 or 3 with Gallo at the 2 or 3. Wilson has a lot of ability that I think D’Antoni will find to jell into the starting line-up.
Randolph has the potential talent but his role on an NBA roster has to be a little skeptical.
He doesn’t really fit into any conventional style for either the 3-4 or 5.
If I can make it there, I'll make it anywhere...It's up to you, New York, New York!!!!
Randolph at C was common for the Warriors last year
You can see his splits between C and PF HERE…with 78% of his minutes being at C.
Now this was small ball Nelly playing AR because he could score, rebound and block shots, not to bang on the blocks with a true C. But he’s been steadily adding weight, with various reports putting him at ~225-235lbs now, at age 20. Marcus Camby was skinnier than that when he played C for us. Heck, Dennis Rodman used to guard and frustrate centers just using his athleticism on a 6-7 ~215 lb frame.
If AR can find a way to thrive as a 5, and Gallo can do the same as a 2 (he doesn’t play there often, but his stats are actually better at sg than sf)…then adding Melo to what we already have would be a very tough team to keep up with.
by Left Coast Cowboy on Jul 26, 2010 6:03 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah, if he were a "conventional" 5
D’Antoni’s boner would wilt. If he’s really up in their neighborhood of 230lbs he’ll definitely see time at C. There aren’t a lot of true blue, big banger kind of centers left, and besides we’ll have Turiaf and Mozgov to deal with those guys.
People always say “but how will he guard centers?!?” My question is, how is a regular center supposed to keep up with him??
But I’m sure he’ll put in work at the 4 and 3 too. I don’t buy this stuff about him not being coordinated enough to play the 3. He can handle the rock as well as Wilson Chandler already.
True
the guy is plenty coordinated to play the 3… it’s his shot that isn’t good enough for that position, I think.
good point
His FT% is encouraging in that respect though, in terms of potential for development. And it’s not like WC is a lights-out shooter from the perimeter either…
You know who else plays Center at 6'11", 230 lbs?
Joakim Noah. And it seems to be working out okay for the Bulls.
as was the case last year with lee
against most teams, it seems like all a knick center needs is to be able to help from the weak side and block shots. i have a lot of confidence in randolph being able to do that. against teams with beefier, back-to-the-basket centers, you go with turiaf or stoudemire. that’d work for me.
chandler at the 2
is more unreasonable than randolph at the 5, to me.
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your prolly right
about AR..but Pringles is not conventional with his lineups… most of what he does is create mismatches.. look at what hes done in the past with marion, amare, jeffries, chandler.
these guys have certain roles on offense and defense.. not your usual p, sg, sf, pf, c lineup
Toney does what the douglas do. And no one can do what he does b/c doing it without being Toney Douglas just doesnt make it do what it do
My main concern
is how do we get more depth from an international standpoint. So far we’ve got:
Gallo – Itally
Turiaf – France
Mozgov – Russia
Rautins – Canada
Jordan – Jamaica
Randolph – born in Germany
Azubuike – born in England
Amare – visiting Israel and wants to learn Hebrew
It’s too bad the Dubs signed Jeremy Lin instead of us.
by wilson chandler's neck tattoo on Jul 25, 2010 11:51 PM EDT reply actions
indeed.
chris paul brings no international flavor to the table. i say we need some south american influence.
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ahem
Rudy Fernandez would help. (He would also help our 2 guard situation.)
portland don't want us to have him.
i vote for argentinians.
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they want Gallo for Rudy
that’s called “treading water” at best, and also considering Gallo has about 5x the potential of Rudy, Portland can eat shit (especially since they’d probably turn around and send Gallo to New Orleans + Brandon Roy for CP3)
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 26, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
i'd be outside DW's office with a pitchfork
if that trade went down. If Portland won’t take Wilson for Rudy straight up they can fuck right off
Azubuike
I’m glad someone else if giving Azubuike as much credit as I do.
He could definitely end up being the Knicks starting 2 guard come the beginning of the season.
Of course it could be Chandler, but as time has gone on, I’ve been recognizing Chandler as very valuable trade bait more and more. He’s just not a natural 2 (Buike is a great shooter), and the Knicks are in love with Gallo.
Another thing…this short rotation thing is going to kill Bill Walker. I really like him, too.
I love Buike
The only thing is there’s a chance he’s totally shot
And then that’s literally no backcourt depth, even with Billy
Bill Walker might kill Bill Walker
depending on his attitude. i got no beef for the short rotation thing but the D’antoni Doghouse is REAL. That’s the only part of his coaching I don’t agree with, him making decisions based on personal beefs.
"Umm - it was - you know - umm - a good game. You know."-
Patrick Ewing (my Knick Hero)
Buike should be the starting 2, if he is healthy
though i do hope that chandler has been working on his range. A three-pointer is not the toughest thing to develop in the pros, especially if you already have a pretty reliable mid-range game. Hopefully the coaches have been getting Silent Will to focus on that aspect of his repertoire.
Realistically, i think it will be who’s injury (chandler’s or buike’s) that has hampered them the least will get the start at SG come October. Walker is a 3rd candidate, and he certainly has the range, but he’s got to get used to his new body and trust his legs. His Summer League D (yeah, it’s summer) was god-awful bad.
"Game Knows Game"
by Ray Smuckles on Jul 26, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Just wondering: Are you guys worried that you might end up as one of the worst defensive teams in the L?
I understand that there is a lot of nice depth, but in my opinion, I don’t think there is enough offense to outweigh the poor defense. I think it depends on how amar’e feels, (Whether he wants to play like he can or if he’ll just be passively aggressive), but beyond Amar’e the only other person that I can visualize putting up 15-20 points a night on a consistent basis is the ever-so explosive kelenna azubuike; other than that, the players surrounding Stat are rather average to middiling players.
For every sunset, there will always be a sunrise.
Other than Randolph, who can be great, but Mikey D is not a big fan of player developmemt;
Also, I don’t mean to be a d—k wad, but I’m kind of glad Randollph fell to Mike D and don nelson; two horrible people at developing young talents, and Earl Clark, a player very similar to randolph fell to alvin gentry; a great person at pklayer development.
For every sunset, there will always be a sunrise.
tell that to the guys who saw their careers rise under MDA
Lee, Diaw, Johnson, Bell, Marion, hell, even Amare and Nash benefitted….???
Most oof those players on there were good before Mike D became a coach; you see amar'e developed well offensively
but poorly defensively under him. Most of those players have massive defensive deficiencies. Other than that, Coach Mike D’antoni isn’t one to put up with poor behavior and doesn’t build a chemistry between his players. He’ll refuse to play someone because they behave badly; he is a woe is me type of coach and for that reason, he’ll probably be able to mold randolph into a solid offensive player, provided he has the patience. To be honest, it bothered me that d’antoni refused to develop bench players; players that start, even if they shouldn’t have a tendency to do be rather than primarily being a bench player. Those players saw their careers rise yes, but those guys were part of a rotation on poor teams that allowed them to develop better. Nash never played any defensive but his style is up-tempo which is why he benefitted it his game greatly; he was fantastic in dallas too though and you cant deny it.
For every sunset, there will always be a sunrise.
Randolph was good under Nelson when he played.
Inconsistent, but he wasn’t 21 yet, so that’s understandable.
Gallo’s developing fairly nicely, and would be developing more if Al Harrington wasn’t on the team (which he’s not). Last year was basically his rookie year after that injury basically took away his ‘official’ rook year.
I dunno why he sat TD for so long, but as it stands right now he’s the primary backup PG off the bench.
Randolph isn’t a rookie. He’s a 3rd year player who just needs to play.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 26, 2010 7:57 AM EDT up reply actions
i know why toney sat
chris duhon was the captain… and toney douglas can’t run the pick and roll very effectively.
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that.
TD I’ve said is more of a Leandro Barbosa type dude. Scoring off the bench.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 26, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
"he was fantastic in dallas too though and you cant deny it"
Absolutely, and I wouldn’t deny it. But I kindly submit that you can’t say that MDA doesn’t develop players. They flourished under him and “broke out” under him. You can’t really look at these last 2 years with the Knicks, they were open wounds. From this point forward, though, will be the making or breaking of MDA. It’s up to the guys on the floor to commit to defense, you can preach it, but will they play it. Nash? Uh-uh. Amare? Depends what day of the week it was it seemed. Let’s see this year play out with a core and knowing this is what we’re finally building upon before judging the guy. Just as it’s too early to tell what type of player AR really is, it’s too early to say whether MDA is a fail or not.
Why is it you would want to see Randolph developed poorly? And wasn't Barbosa a young guy when D'Antoni got him?
Boris Diaw went from mostly useless in Atlanta to Most Improved Player out in Phoenix. Here in NY, David Lee became an All-Star thanks to massive improvement over the last two years. Toney Douglas got tons of minutes as a rookie, looked good, and figures to contribute next year in a big way. Danilo Gallinari had his first real year last year and got tons of minutes and looked even better than Douglas. It probably didn’t help him in Phoenix that the front office busied itself with casting off first rounders like they were nothing. Do you ever wonder how Luol Deng would’ve looked in purple and orange? I’m just not ready to put D’Antoni into Don Nelson’s category of petty player mis-managers.
Also, defensively, I feel kinda good about the idea of Felton or Douglas pressuring opposing points all night long. There’s also enough shot blocking on the back line this year for that area to be a massive improvement for the Knicks. We’ll see what Mozgov brings, too. That’s a pretty big wild card.
Also, I wouldn’t call the players around Stoudemire middling. More like right at average, which is a hell of a lot better than below average. And in Randolph, Gallinari, and Felton, there’s really a lot to like as far as potential improvement.
The thing i said about ar4 was a bit impulsive and out of a copmpetitive nature; the way I see it, many people on BSOTS are willing to give up on clark already, when he and anthony randolph have a similar ceiling, but ar4 has been in the league longer and hasn’t been able to show that he is a straight up baller; teh reason I said it is because I wanted some reassurance that clark is in a better position than ar4 is.
For every sunset, there will always be a sunrise.
No one can assure that
Earl Clark is a prime D-Leage candidate. Randolph has at least had an impact in the minutes he’s played. If anyone other than Don Nelson was coach, he would have started for that team.
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jul 26, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
word.
Randolph may be a project, but unlike someone like Clark, AR’s actually been out there affecting society with rage. The guy’s pretty good already judging by his per 36min numbers.
Nelson is a wackball. There is no formula for his lineups other then 110 proof gin.
Randolph basically is David Lee when he was a pup. Remember him? All rebounds, all day.
Also, Randolph is about 3 inches taller, a much better athlete and actually can play some D.
So we may have traded Lee, for Lee 5.0
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 26, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
the Knicks were 9th in the league offensively last year
and that was with an offense running mostly through Duhon, Lee and Harrington. I have a hard time imagining an offense with Amar’e, Felton, Gallo and Randolph is going to do any worse than that. If Azubuike actually does put up 15-20 per game—even if the 2 guard platoon collectively contributes that much—we should be close to the top, easy.
Meanwhile Felton, Douglas, Azubuike, Chandler, Gallo, Randolph and Turiaf are all plus defenders or at least high-effort guys. Hard to tell if Mozgov will be effective at the NBA level but if he is his impact will be felt on the defensive end. Even the possible weakest defensive link (Amar’e) is an upgrade over Lee at PF/C.
So we’ve stepped it up on both sides of the court, but particularly on the defensive end. There is simply no reason we shouldn’t be at least average defensively.
No way man.
I agree that our D will be pretty good. However, our defense will largely depend on how much effort Amare puts in. All of our guys are good 1 on 1 defenders, but Amare has the potential to bring weak side help everytime someone drives the lane or spins around our C for what appears to be an easy 2.
On the other hand, I can’t agree with you regarding our offensive output. Seriously where are our pts going to come from. Amare and Gallo. Thats it. Buke is not great, Felton is not a scoring guard, and Ronny is just in the game to toss his elbows around and rip boards (which I highly appreciate). I just can’t see us winning more than 25 games with this lineup. Its tough.
by stylin_and_profilin on Jul 26, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Felton's averaged over 13pts a game
in a slow paced O his whole career. Even if he matches that, its fine.
Amare will average well over 20, possibly 25/game. Gallo should get at least 2 extra buckets a game, so that’s like 19 (or 21 if its 3pters…). Buike probably gets you 9-10pts.
Randolph can score, dude averaged 11pts in not much minutes. Chandler can score over 10/game. TD can get you 7-10pts off the bench. Walker ditto.
The Knicks are gonna score. Without Al Harrington being a ball hog, and Chris Duhon being afraid to score points…they’ll be a lot better. Amare can score anytime too against anyone, while Lee took advantage of loafing Centers (not a knock, but he did…)
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 26, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
the Knicks will have no problem scoring.
if their defense is “pretty good”, we’ll be battling the Heat for the #1 seed.
…They’re D should be decent, not gonna be great or probably not even pretty good unless they gel over the course of the year, which is possible.
But offensively, they should be better and more efficient and the sacks of shit aren’t there.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 26, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Battling for the 1 seed? Not likely.
Battling from the 8 seed when Miami is the one more like it, and I’d be happy just to see the payoffs again. That’s an attainable goal.
"Umm - it was - you know - umm - a good game. You know."-
Patrick Ewing (my Knick Hero)
oh no...
if the Knicks defense is “pretty good”, they’ll be competing for the #1 seed given how much they’ll score.
But that basically wasn’t the point of what I said…
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 26, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
try this
Felton 15 ppg
Azubuike 10 ppg
Gallo 19 ppg
Amar’e 23 ppg
Randolph 15 ppg
TD 10 ppg
Chandler 10 ppg
Turiaf 8 ppg
None of those projections are unreasonable IMO. In fact Randolph averaged 18 pts per 36, so if he gets starters minutes I think 15 ppg is on the low end.
There is no way this team isn’t a top 5 offense with D’Antoni on the sidelines. If we can be even league average defensively it’s going to be a very fun year.
exactly..
lets just say ina typical game.
21 (amare)
17 (gallo)
14 (felton)
14 (randolph)
9 (azubuike)
8 (chandler)
8 (td)
5 (turiaf)
4 (walker)
3 (rest of team)
if this team could break 100 most games, which is definitely possibe, they could definitely be a top 5 offense.. how many teams average over 100 points a game?
lets say their the 4th best offense in the east, and the defense is pretty good. whats to say we wont get a 5 seed or something like that?
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
I think in those terms, it will come down to how they play in tight games because I could see a lot of games where they are really clicking, run away on the scoreboard and inflate their offensive ppg. Which is great, don’t get me wrong, but it’ll come down to how they can produce in tight situations, in half-court games, and how the defense holds up under pressure.
We’re looking at a potentially very potent offense, at the very least it should be a darn acceptable offense. Defense has a lot of potential, especially if they adopt a kind of hallmark tenacity. They have some of the right players to instill the kind of hardworking defense that becomes infectious. Felton/TD and Turiaf bookending things here. If the guys playing between them buy into it, the talent is mostly there.
There will be holes, but if they play D as a team, the help should be there.
This is gonna determine whether they’re fighting on the playoff bubble or fighting for a middle seed, and I’m excited that those are the most reasonable possibilities to me.
i think felton/amar'e
in a half court, slow down game, is still pretty brutal.
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i love this for one reason
you just a d’antoni team is going to be good on defense, but probably bad on offense.
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you are are nuts
Battling Heat for #1 seed, top 5 offense in the LEAGUE? Seriously?! Thats an outrageous statement. Heat, Celtics, Lakers, Chicago, and Phoenix all have better offenses, easily.
Lets just be real here. Buke, Turiaf, and Felton are mid-level talent at best. None of them have been a “go-to” guy in their previous teams, but are content being ok role players. This would be totally fine if we had a legit first and second option. Sure, Amare is the go-to guy, but after that where do we turn? 3pt jacks from Gallo?
I’m just saying that based on talent, this years squad is miles behind last years team in terms of offensive ability. TD, Wilson, and Randolph are still projects and can’t be expected to regularly dominate on the offensive end. Certainly any one of these guys can have break out games, but I don’t think its going to be a regular occurance throughout the season.
Just take solice in the fact that we will probably be better than the Nets and the 76ers and not much else. Hey, at least we can try to get Melo and CP3….
by stylin_and_profilin on Jul 26, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
the Knicks were a top 10 offense LAST YEAR
despite having the less capable David Lee as their #1 scorer, and Al Harrington the ball hog, as their #2.
Amare is better at scoring then Lee. Gallo will get better on his own, and no ball hogs. And Felton will get better in Pringles offense (why people continue to overlook this simple fact, is laughable, to be honest).
They’ll be better offensively this year. If they’re pretty good on defense (which they won’t, they’ll be average at best, which is fine) they they’ll be a top 3 seed, cuz they’ll score a tone.
But they’ll score a ton, and let up a lot too.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 26, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
i want the 8th seed personally
or if miami is the 2nd seed, i want the seventh, or if they are 3rd, i want 6th, if they are 4th, i want 5th.
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How about we're the #1 seed
and Miami’s the #8
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 26, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
yea... i mean, thats ok
but we could probably do better than that.
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whatever will we do
without Al Chucketts, Larry Hughes, Chris Duhon, Jarried Jeffries…
WHO IS GOING TO SCORE THE BALL? WHO, I ASK
Yeah, me too
I mean how will Felton possibly match Chris Duhon’s blistering offensive output?
And how will we make up for all of Al Harrington’s missed 3 pointers?
man i just don't know....
do yu think it that maybe wilson chandler ken come of the bench end dribe to the hoops? but all so get 10 poinds ever game? i dont. i think we play 8 guys only, and there all gong to avreg 10 points a game. and that only is 80 pwns a game!
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When Harrington signed with the Nuggets for 5 years
…I cried.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 26, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
not what i said
all i said was that i liked what you said, because when you pare it down, you’re not worried about the knick defense, but you are concerned about their offense. i’m so totally down with that.
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if we get the 8th seed
its a huge win for the season no doubt. Heres to the the cock launching!
by stylin_and_profilin on Jul 26, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
you did?
Toney does what the douglas do. And no one can do what he does b/c doing it without being Toney Douglas just doesnt make it do what it do
As I said above just now, the offense should be good, with potential to be near the top. If they can gel defensively as a team and play that end with grit and tenacity, that will be the difference between fighting to get into the playoffs and potentially fighting as high as a 5th seed. I see it as a real possibility.
possible standings?
5th seed seems a bit hectic. Lets engage in some meaningless projections.
Miami
Chicago
Orlando
Boston
Atlanta
- (it gets dicey here)
Milwaukee
Charlottle
Knicks ?
Maybe the best we could do is 6th seed, but I don’t think we could do any better.
by stylin_and_profilin on Jul 26, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
7th and 8th are really good shots for this squad if things go right. I think they could outseed the Hawks as well. I see the Hawks regressing this season to be frank. I hate to say it because I liked what they were doing, but if I’m Josh Smith I’m ready to hit the eject button.
I think Milwauke will be better than the Hawks, just gonna go out there and say it.
5 is certainly possible.
ATL seems to be a team that’s plateaued. 5 seems as likely as 6th would.
Dicey would be 4th. The Celtics are on the downslope, who knows if they can stay healthy long enough.
Then of course, the Bulls have made a habit of preseason expectations only to fall flat on their face during the season. Boozer is an irreplaceable part to that team, if you’re expecting them to be #2 in the East.
Boozer’s very injury prone, and does not have Paul Millsap as his backup (just an old Kurt Thomas).
Now..if you say, the Knicks defense is “pretty good”…lol, they go as high as possible.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 26, 2010 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
i don't thnk atlanta will be too different
boston could have some injuries and just try to coast into the playoffs… 6th or 7th seed, altho on paper is unlikely, isn’t all that far fetched.
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I have a feeling
Joe Johnson’s finna step off the gas a ton this year now that he has his bank. Atlanta’s gonna slip from last year.
"He's the straw that makes the drink go."
by Thelonious Dunk on Jul 26, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
dag, really fellas?
new coach… new ‘tude? crawford takes over for bibby’s lame ass?? i mean… maybe yr right…. sheeeeeit
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It’s just a gut feeling. I still see them making the playoffs, and maybe they won’t drop but I don’t see them ever getting much better. I totally understand the Johnson overpayment, cuz they weren’t going to be able to do anything to go in a different direction with the contracts they already had, so they may as well keep him along and play this core out. But I just don’t see it getting better.
Love me some Josh Smith though and I’ll always like Crawford for all his very serious flaws.
that's what I'm saying.
at best, its the same shit again. And regardless of the coach, the players have to be feeling the anal pain from that playoff ouster.
Everyone on that team, aside from I guess Horford, is basically maxed out as far as potential. Josh Smith will never be able to shoot a basket. Joe Johnson, like Lonius said, may just coast. Mally C is Mally C, but really…just a chucker that occasionally can rip off 50pts.
I don’t see it. I think they are what they are…and a team like say, Milwaukee, is up and coming. The Knicks possibly too.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 26, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Milwaukee is on the rise for sure. We helped them along with Jennings, a healthy Bogut will make a huge impact on the team that rallied at the end of the year. They didn’t do anything huge in the offseason but they did get better and, again, Bogut will be back.
Since they’re more of a known commodity and have been together, they’re definitely ahead of the Knicks in my book. If we’re on similar footing come season’s end, it’ll have been a great season.
i think losing ridnour hurts a lot
and getting maggette hurts a lot too. but the bucks were playing great basketball before bogut got hurt. it was a real shame, cus they could have made some playoff noise. i think they are clearly ahead of the knicks.
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We will definitely be better than Charlotte
We scooped up their starting PG, and they lost Tyson Chandler this summer too.
And Amar’e/Gallo/Randolph > Wallace/Jackson/Diaw IMO.
tru
the wiz may also be a sleeper…john wall + agent 0 = scary backcourt.
Also, Bradshaw – you can’t really say the C’s are on the downslope. They were in Game 7 of the finals man – and resigned NateRob for some more bench magic.
by stylin_and_profilin on Jul 26, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
its another year on KG.
where he goes, they go. If he’s hurt, they’re shot.
He’s healthy, they’re legit. That’s all.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 26, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
sad but true
one day, all he’ll be able to do is plunge toilets.
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7th, I say
Milwaukee’s going to be better than people think.
6th or higher is possible, but it would take bad luck for one of those other teams, and very good luck for us. This team looks like a lot of fun if everything breaks right, but I doubt everything will be so rosy. They should be able to compete for the 7th or 8th spots, though.
Seriously? Less offensive talent?
Duhon<Felton
Lee<Amar’e
Gallo last yr<Gallo this yr
Douglas last yr<Douglas this yr
Chandler=Chandler
Jeffries<Turiaf
HughesRandolph
Besides Chandler being the same as last yr (coming back form injury while still developing) and Harrington being a better scorer than Randolph, I would say were a better offensive team all the way down the depth chart
For sure, the only question mark there is whether Gallo and Douglas are truly better than they were last year. I don’t have any doubts about their progress myself but the sophomore slump is a real phenomenon for some (I know it is technically not Gallo’s second year, but still). The body of work for the other guys is pretty indisputable.
I'll take Randolph over Harrington
for the simple fact it’ll make the rest of the team more offensively efficient, since he’s a ballhog and bricklayer.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 26, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
this
my biggest hope for AR is that he learns to put his jumper away when it’s not falling and just let the points come to him. With the pace we play at he could get 10-15 ppg just on fast break dunks and rebounds/putbacks alone. I will take that any day over someone chucking 16 shots to get his 17 points every night
no.
the Knicks D as a whole when they still had Jared Jeffries was actually serviceable, much better then they were once he left. That’s with guys like Lee, Harrington, etc. on the court as well.
Basically every single player they’ve added can play defense, or at worst…better then who was here. That includes Amare, who’s a hell of a lot better defensively then Harrington or Lee was.
The Knicks had no players who wanted to play D, aside from Jeffries when eh was here, and Gallo did a good job for someone who was basically defending on his own (except when TD was on the floor)
You need players. They now have players who want to play some defense.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 26, 2010 7:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Huh?
The Knicks are much better defensively than they were last year. Felton, Douglas, Azubuike, and Turiaf are all known as good defensive players. I thought Gallo showed a competetiveness on D last year and a willingness to guard the other team’s best guy. I think he’ll be fine on D. I think Chandler’s a pretty good, and versatile, defensive player. True, Amar’e isn’t known for his D, but compared to Lee, he’s actually an improvement. I don’t really know about AR’s D but at least he can block shots.
I actually think the Knicks have a better collection of good defensive players than most teams in the league right now. So while we will likely play at a fast pace and give up more points than a lot of teams, in terms of points allowed per possession I think our D will be better than most teams. It’s rebounding I’m a little bit concerned about…. but AR’s rebounding rate sets my mind at ease a lot.
how on earth
can you disregard danilo gallinari? the kid started a few games in his shortened rookie season. and in his second year he started nearly every game of the season. in august he will turn 22. last year he averaged exactly 15 points, and now entire defenses will not be able to key in on him all night.
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word
and he puts in real effort on D, even if he can be a step slow against quicker 3s.
I think he’ll feast this year playing with Amar’e + Felton, to the tune of 19 or 20 ppg.
before duhon played for the knicks
his best numbers were 8 points and 5 assists per game. in his first year with the knicks he got 11 and 7. that was under scott skiles, who plays at a pretty fast pace, believe it or not.
felton last year was 12 points and 5.5 assists. his best year was 14 points and 7 assists. if d’antoni inflates numbers, i think we can expect 15 points, and 8-9 assists.
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If people expect to much out of Randolph...
You are setting your self up for disappointment…
I know he has potnetial but people will be dissappointed if the bar for expectation is too high….
Although we estentially traded D.Lee for Randolph…. We really didn’t trade D.Lee…. We got Randolph for not signing Lee….
THe warrriors wanted to get rid of Randolph, Turiaf, and Kelena…
THese are all players that either have terminating contracts or team options for the next one to 2 years…
If I can make it there, I'll make it anywhere...It's up to you, New York, New York!!!!
You guys took away the warriors best defenders and some of their best tangible talent.
But I think that Mikey D would opt to play amar’e at the five and have randolph play the four rather than have him come off the bench. That would be an interesting duo, and passing big that is able to run the floor equally as well as amar’e and is also a down low threat gives me a boner; this team’ll be quite the entertainer. But I was kind of hoping to see roblo, amar’e and clark run the floor together; that would have been quite a killer frontcourt
For every sunset, there will always be a sunrise.
Hi, Earl Clark
The only possible explanation for your comparison of AR and EC is that you are him.
lol no, just a guy who backs his lottery pcisk and tends to grow very fond of them, i.e amar'e stoudemire and shawn marion.
Anyway, I’m glad that AR$ is now under Mikey D because he’ll get a chance to play and he will be more than a pleasure to watch him play. Amar’e+Randolph+kelenna=kick ass
For every sunset, there will always be a sunrise.
Have you seen Randolph play?
AR is 1 year older than John Wall. If AR was somehow reinserted into the NBA draft this year he would most likely have been selected second.
Knicks fans expectations for him should be that he is an all star under his current contract (including option year) and if he gets the minutes he is going to be. Just wait until his first game where he scores 20, with 12 reb, 5 assists, 5 blks and 3 steals. I am a betting man, and I would happily bet that if AR gets minutes he will have several such games this year. I’ve already seen similar in GS when Nelson would refuse to keep the guy on the court.
Has there ever been a forward who flourished under Nelson, ever?
Hmm, I forgot Chris Webber…….oh, wait…
Second? he was taken 14th three years aago, I'm curious as to what makes you say that he would have been taken second, over the likes of DMC and favors and turner?
For every sunset, there will always be a sunrise.
maybe not 2nd
its speculation of course..but if he stayed in college those years he would have rised on teh draft board easily.
Toney does what the douglas do. And no one can do what he does b/c doing it without being Toney Douglas just doesnt make it do what it do
A lot of Nelly's teams had flourishing forwards
Such as:
- Terry Cummings in Milwaukee
- Chris Mullin in his 1st run w/ GSW
- Dirk Nowitski in Dallas
But since there are ~2.5 generation gaps between Grandpa Nelly and Tony the Kid, there seems reason to hope that Mike D. can coach him a lot better than Nelly did.
by Left Coast Cowboy on Jul 26, 2010 5:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Azubuike is the key here
because, if he’s healthy and has not lost explosiveness as a result of his knee surgery, he’s really the perfect 2 for us. He’s got size, he can play D, he can shoot, kid seems to be a good teammate. If he’s healthy, he’ll be the starting 2 and Chandler will come off the bench behind Gallo and/or Amar’e.
If Buke is not 100%, it gets a bit more interesting. They will probably start Walker there or maybe Toney. They could also start Chandler there – Dantoni loves to create mismatches. But I have a feeling Chandler’s their 6th man this year.
I don’t know who’s going to start but I wouldn’t be surprised if Amar’e and Randolph started at the 4/5. Yes, that combo would be bulk deficient but would put nice pressure on the other team’s defense, and I think that’s what D’antoni likes to do. But it could be Amar’e / Turiaf with Randolph coming off the bench. Really, I like all of these options. I’m just keeping my fingers crossed that Buke is healthy, because I think they do need him at the 2.
Funny, though I am psyched about Amar’e, what excites me the most is having Felton on the team. A real, live, actual point guard. I wasn’t crazy about them signing him at first – I’m a big TD fan -, but the more I hear him talk and the more I think about it, I really think this has a chance to work very well. The other thing I’m excited about is having a guy like AR, who to me seems like he might be a Camby type player, and when Camby was on the Knicks. Lastly, though Turiaf may not be any top level guy, I think he’s exactly what we were missing last year. Heck, since Kurt Thomas left.
I mean, I’m already excited and then it’s like, “Oh, yeah, Amar’e!”
I’m cautiously optimistic about Randolph – I’m not sure if he’s got holes in his game that will forever be frustrating or if he’s an unconventional player on the cusp of his own personal brand of greatness, but even if he doesn’t pan out, we’re not super reliant on that to be a good team.
The best thing is, I look at all these guys, and no matter what combo you use out there, I keep thinking – “These guys are badass”.
my favorite lineup from that era
was camby, lj, spree, allan, and childs.
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Gulliest lineup ever.
Cept for maybe a Ewing, Oak, Murder Mase frontcourt.
Memories…
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jul 26, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
oh if we wanna go back a little further
ewing, oak, mase, starks, harper was downright frightening. it was like a tale of the tape when they introduced starting lineups. the announcers would just kinda be like- this one is gonna get ugly folks….
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When Ewing and Camby were on the floor at the end of games
Every big rebound belonged to the Knicks. Big tip ins, big blocks, big wins down the stretch. A lot of folks were down on Ewing by then but that lineup rocked.
my only thing
ewing commanded the ball in the post at the end of the games, and at that point… it wasn’t quite right, and his moves were just too deliberate. but yea i mean, we never put out a bad defensive unit. we were a juggernaut.
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Pretty sure D’Antoni will go with an 8 man rotation. I think Felton, Azubuike, Gallinari, Stoudemire, Turief, Douglas (backing up 1-2), Randolph (backing up 4-5, Chandler (backing up 2-3) will be that 8.. maybe 9 if they feel obligated to play Mozgov significant minutes behind Turief.
The rooks won’t get much pt cept during blowouts…for seasoning… but…
In case of emergency for a PG break glass and play Rautins. But I think Fields has the better chance to eventually break into the rotation, as he will be groomed to play more minutes next year when Azubuike’s contract is done.
I think Jordan will the bench player people want to see… Jordan blocks a shot..Clyde breaks out the defied and denied rhyme the Garden goes wild as Jordan takes off and catches an alley oop for a slam during garbage time.
By the way.. anyone hear any word on the Knicks resigning Earl Barron yet?
i want the duke back
but i have serious doubts. i bet if he takes a minimum contract (which is what we have left) its with a team like miami, who he used to play for, or another contender.
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i agree with the rotation.. and after those 8 i think walker and mozgov are the next two..
give rautins fields and especially jordan another year..
the best scenario would be if curry were to come out of no where and play well.. than since his contract runs out we could probably trade him at the end of the year for a decent young guy
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
CP3 has spoken
From his Twitter: "The meeting went well. It was great to get an opportunity to sit down with Coach Williams, President Weber and our new General Manager Dell Demps. I expressed my desire to win and I like what they said about the direction that they want to take the team. I have been a Hornet my entire career and I hope to represent the city of New Orleans and state of Louisiana for many years to come."
I just slid out a shit
and flushed it. You think I should’ve wrapped it up and gave it?
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 26, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Do we really need CP3?
I think while CP3 is a huge talent, I think Felton and Douglas will put up better than respectable numbers and have the potential to be pretty good (Douglas as a backup). The Knicks biggest hole is shooting guard right now, Azubuike is coming off an injury, Chandler is really more of a 3 than a 2 (and really i see him as a perfect 6th man.. off the bench for high energy play and some quick buckets), Douglas is more of a combo guard that a full time 2, and I don’t think the rooks are ready just yet.
i think we can all agree no matter how the knicks turn out this year, they will be by far the most exciting team to watch.
i can honestly seem them averaging 100 points this year. no question.
if there defense is respectable, which is should be with the guys we have (turiaf, bookie, td, felton, gallo are all great.. amare randolph and chandler are atleast average and not liabilities) i can easily see us take the 5th seed.
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
we averaged 100 last year.
i think we have a lot of obstacles to clear before we can set the bar that high. such as putting the trade nonsense to rest, so we can just go out and play!
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I know Felton is a professional and all, but it’s an unnecessary discomfort over his head if this trade stuff comes back up again, so I agree. He’s got a legit shot at being team captain, probably the best choice. Donnie should call him up and let him know he’s not out to replace him already (especially after that ridiculous mis-attributed NY Post article).
I agree that the 5th seed or 6th seed is reasonable if things work out, especially on defense. That’s best case scenario, so I’m not trying to get ahead of the game here. But to nitpick, at this point Gallo belongs with the latter group of “at least average, not liabilities”. He has some tools and the mindset to be a very good defender at the 3 but he’s got to improve and be more consistent. The same goes for Amar’e and especially Randolph and Chandler. Those other guys are already there, though.
The thing with D
is that there really needs to be a team culture and buy-in. And from what I’ve seen, it has to come from the players. Felton is a guy that plays D and he’s the point guard. Very important. His backup, Toney D, plays D. Kellena is known to play D. Gallo cares about D and is competetive about it. I think Chandler’s a pretty good defender. Amar’e is not terrific but he’s better than Lee was. Turiaf believes in D. I think Rautins and Fields believe in D too. I’m not sure about Randolph but at least it seems he can block shots. There may be better and worse defenders but I think the team is set up pretty well to have a culture of defense.
our defense was pretty good last year
when jeffries just took control of it, and started really barking out orders. thats the whole thing. and its just as you described it, somebody has just got to take control and everyone has to follow their lead. they will also have to steer the ship in the right direction. which might be tougher.
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