there is no such thing as a short rotation
by stingy d on Jul 26, 2010 1:31 AM EDT
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Printyou fools are killin me. who deserved to play last year? david lee. danilo dallinari. ok, who else? seriously? i mean truly deserved to play... bill walker for ten minutes at a time, yes..... i agree..... nate robinson, after extended bench time, yes he deserved to play in his first game back. who else? earl barron? astute suggestion, you reed-licker. al harrington? the guy that absolutely ruined the flow of the game for the knicks, and allowed the opposition to focus their defense, and waltz to the rim on offense? let's talk duhon. how's about jared jeffries? that might actually be worth debating! except for that fact that it isn't. who deserved more than 10 or 15 minutes a game last year?
nobody deserved to play for us last year. cus we sucked. if someone was having a good game- our coach, whom all of you jerks can't wait to deride, let the player stay on the court. what else do you really want? you really want the coach to pull the plug on the season for jordan hill and toney douglas? i would have loved watching that, but it's terribly repressed, masochistic and hostile.
the type of people that believe mike d'antoni will only play a short rotation, also maintain that malik rose was a talented basketball player with a high basketball iq. you need medicine.
who did i leave out? mr wilson? there seem to be two prevailing schools of thought on wilson chandler. one says that he is best suited as a back-up forward who can provide great depth off the bench, solid player with no one thing that sets him apart from the status quo in the league. the other school of thought is that wilson is a starting 2 guard, who can shoot, and plays exceptional defense. i'm with the former. i would not play someone fitting the former's description much more than 25 minutes a game.
yo, shut up, all of you. for real.
there is no such thing as a short rotation. bunch of you nancy's just need not step on the court, man. thats whats happening.
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"As humans we strive for success but live with fear. If success was inevitable, fear cannot exist" Michael Kelley
For real.
you don’t play a “long rotation” if shit players like Larry Hughes and Eddy Curry are gonna be getting minutes
Go New York Go!
yea, thats what would have won us about 15 more games.
you’re sooooooo right.
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im not saying it would have won us a ton more games
u just kept asking who else deserved to play, and i believe toney did deserve to play during that period. do u not?
Nah
He was an unproven rook. Still is.
The M.O. last year was to look as appealing as possible to FAs. Having TD learn on the fly would have sent the wrong message.
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jul 26, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
yes
i’m talking unquestionably deserved to be on the court. i love toney douglas’ game. and i think he could be a valuable player, on a championship team even. but he is not a starting calibre player in this league, and for all his talent, he does not really excel at passing. and good passing is paramount for any mike d’antoni players.
so i don’t thnk toney really deserved it. he’s probably the best one to argue for. but seriously, he wasn’t then, and he still isn’t ready.
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just to turn this on its ear
Chris Duhon can’t shoot, and good shooting, I would say, is paramount for D’Antoni players.
Whatever whatever whatever.
What I’m really saying is that I would’ve given many of Chris Duhon’s minutes to Toney last season. In a heartbeat. Duhon’s pick-and-roll game came and went last year, but I spent a lot of time banging my head against the wall because he couldn’t thread the right pass in and find Lee on the move. Lee included a lot of isolation and spot-up stuff last year (according to Synergy, 14% of his possessions were iso, 12.5% were post-up, and 22.6% were pick-and-roll), and while he was still mostly a p&r guy, there was a lot more going on. I wondered a lot if Toney’s ability to stretch the defense would have suited Lee better than Duhon’s (overrated, I think) ability to hit a roller.
Even without supplanting him as a starter, I think Douglas should have seen at least spot minutes in every game last season. He only played in 56. I feel the same way about Jordan Hill, who played in about half the games for which he was eligible as a Knick (not sure how far into the season he was traded, but he played 24 games). They could have contributed, but i don’t think D’Antoni let them contribute. That’s my only real problem with his coaching last season. I think the rotation should have been extended to include those two every night.
i do agree
but i just don’t think it could have changed anything. stylistically, yes, things would have been different. and i think toney is and always will be infinitely better than duhon. i mean, when he goes to the rack, he actually attempts to complete the lay-ups. but i think toney would have had just as much toruble, if not more, trying to make the right passes.
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and again
duhon was the captain of the team. i know he was atrocious, and in the thick of it, i was calling for his head louder than anyone, but in retrospect, if you’re d’antoni how can you just cast him off? the season was lost before it began. the season was actually lost in 2008!
i dont want to be an apologist, but it was a lost cause, and toney douglas is serioulsy not the player we pretend he is. plenty of second string guards are head and shoulders bettter than him.
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thats maybe too harsh
he is a second string guard. and a good one. that’s his fate in the nba.
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nah
not harsh enough on duhon imo. He was a second string guard playin as a starter…I have no doubt TD’s ceiling is way higher than what Duhon is. Thats not to say he’ll be an all star or anythin but he has potential to become a starter in a couple years
Donnie's bout to beat the NBA game like he got a cheat code
Duhon was a great guy
and will probably in the NBA a long time after his playing career is over. And TD is in my opinion, a potential 6th man of the year winner. I think he’s not a starter yet, but I do say let TD DWTDD, which is come off the bench, bring the energy and focus on making opp d’s pay. The dude can flat out ball and score. His passing is coming but not there just yet. Going small, he and Felton should be making defenses pay by attacking and drawing fouls, and opening up the passing lanes and getting the front court easy layups, dunks and alleyoops. Du just could not do that. Let TD play off Felton’s lead and learn on the go. When he’s ready, he’s going to be a monster – a smaller Ginobli per se.
I'm not saying
Duhon wasn’t a good person. He was a great teammate far as in the huddle and locker room…but on the court, I’m sorry, but he flat out sucked
Donnie's bout to beat the NBA game like he got a cheat code
Oh no - I totally agree
And I wasn’t suggesting contrary to anything you had said. I was just expanding on it. As in, Duhon’s smarts seem a better fit in coaching than playing, and TD, to me, is our 6th man assassin, but as you said, not a starter yet.
you may be right
with regard to toney. point guard is the hardest position to learn in the league. so perhaps after 2 or 3 years we’ll see some real improvement. but that still supports my theory that toney didn’t totally deserve the playing time he didn’t get in his rookie season. and it further supports the idea that there is no short rotation, just a group that might get the win, and the guys that aren’t really contributing (for better or worse).
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definitely
I don’t think Douglas replacing him was feasible. I just thought Douglas should have been included more and earlier.
stingy's said it before...
Toney Douglas is not a PG who excels at running the P&R. Duhon, for all his suck, was good at it (that’s why David Lee averaged 20pts).
That’s why.
Now, why he wasn’t coming off the bench as a scorer, I dunno. He still was just a rook.
The only rooks who I see on the Knicks are the 3 second rounders. I also see no nippleheads like Hughes or N8. So Pringles I’d think is gonna use his roster, which is actually quite stocked with talent.
Go New York Go!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 26, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
thats why the knicks had the second best p&r game
IN THE LEAGUE last year. duhon is atrocious in nearly all aspects of the game, but he can read a pick and roll really well. and the only coach that swears by the pick and roll as much as d’antoni is jerry sloan.
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I know we would of won more games.
if toney douglas was getting minutes early in the season. with his defense, and ability to steal the ball. and he can score from the outside and putting it on the floor. TD is the man break out year for him, AR, felton, and i think feilds iq is off the charts..
interesting thoughts stingy
i’d argue that we should have seen more of TD at the 1 and 2 , especially early on, and more Chandler at the 4, with less Harrington and Duhon (Hughes playing the 1?), but I feel like last year the rotation was a lot more so on attitude earning playing time than “need to develop/showcase/whatever”, at least until the playoffs became a pipe dream.
Seems like you’re saying that the talent available determines rotation depth, and consequently this year the rotation will be longer because the talent pool has improved. I agree.
"Game Knows Game"
i would never argue for more lawrence hughes
but sure, toney douglas maybe should have gotten some more minutes. it took until the last month of the season for him to average about 35 a game.
wilson, on the other hand averaged 35 minutes a game all year. did he deserve 40+?
harrington averaged 30 a game. and stunk it up, but was the second leading scorer.
but take a good look, these guys are not really shining stars.
and as much as we like gallinari, its not what he is already doing, its what he could become that is so intriguing!
last year, the debate wasn’t truly: douglas needs more minutes because he will win games for us, the debate centered on- duhon needs less minutes because his confidence is shot, orharrington needs fewer touches, or hughes needs to be traded, because he openly talks shit. and on and on. nate probably couldn’t shut his mouth for more than two seconds, and i’m sure he all sorts of backhanded shit to say.
also, i was kind of in the minority at the time, but i thought nate should have been getting duhon’s minutes from the start of the season. and i thought nate should be getting toney douglas minutes, if he wasn’t going to start.
but you nailed it: now we have nice talent top to bottom. and they compliment each other. and d’antoni has never been one to take someone out when they’re hot, and he’s quick to bench you if you play like shit. i just don’t see anythign wrong with that. and furhtermore, no successful coach/team plays more than 8-9 guys significant chunks of minutes.
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ha, i WAS arguing for more lawrence...
…never thought that would happen. But he and TD would have been a nice defensive backcourt, and hughes shoots better than a certain dookie. If only he took 5 shots a game instead of 15 :(
And wasn’t an idiot.
But oh well, that season is dead, and it looks like the Knick brass learned some things. All 4 of those troublesome tribbles aren’t wearing the orange and blue next year.
"Game Knows Game"
by Ray Smuckles on Jul 26, 2010 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions
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