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Knicks extend offer to Shannon Brown

So close, bro.  (Photo by Mark Terrill/Pool/Getty Images)

Pool - Getty Images

So close, bro. (Photo by Mark Terrill/Pool/Getty Images)

via Ken Berger:

The Knicks have extended an offer to Shannon Brown and are waiting to hear whether the Lakers' free-agent guard will take it or wait for L.A. to make room to re-sign him by trading Sasha Vujacic, two people with knowledge of the situation told CBSSports.com Thursday.

No particulars on the money but we can assume it isn't for much considering that he's being hard balled by the Lakers.

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PEOPLE USE YOUR HEADS HERE!!

There is no reason to argue about him not fitting in or not being able to shoot etc.
We dont want to give up Chandler for Rudy.
We sign him and use him and use him as TRADING BAIT!!!
For Rudy
For Paul
Maybe someone else who knows.
The Don has been very smart this offseason, trust me, we want this guy to ship away.
He’s 24 and athletic, played with the Lakers with Kobe and under Phil Jackson.
We are planning to trade this guy and if we aren’t and we dont…
BAN ME!

"As humans we strive for success but live with fear. If success was inevitable, fear cannot exist" Michael Kelley

by MikeTheIntern on Jul 29, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

well, correct me if i'm wrong,

but if the knicks sign him as a free agent, isn’t he trade-ineligible until december 15th?

not that that dispels your hypothesis. just saying.

by Seth on Jul 29, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

yep

6 months till you able to trade free agents. but do you guys think he’ll leave koby..

by choplo on Jul 29, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

i think this is a ploy

to make LA get on it and sign him.

whatever. Using NY to get more cash is a commonplace among FA in every sport.

Maybe he gets tired of waiting and we steal him away. I would welcome him. I like high flying dunkers.

I am a fan of both the mets and knicks... so just kill me now.

by gbaked on Jul 29, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

NY is the only place to do it

a small rumor like this anywhere else and nobody notices. Put the knicks in the tags, and all of a sudden its written about on 15 blogs, 12 newspapers and has prob been mentioned on Twitter about 25,000 times.

I am a fan of both the mets and knicks... so just kill me now.

by gbaked on Jul 29, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

from realgm:

“In any trade offer, the Knicks would be able to combine the assets acquired from Golden State in the sign-and-trade that sent David Lee to the Warriors. A prohibition on aggregating the salaries of recently acquired players only applies to teams that are over the cap.”

so i guess that means brown could be traded too. i don’t necessarily think that’s what is going on here, but still. the above quote is still news to me.

"Why does green mean that's the color green? Why can't you say another word for green being green? Know what i'm saying?" - Stephon

"Anyway, you should check out the movie "Black and White," which actually stars Allan Houston. It’s not a comedy, but rather a really serious and emotional movie." - Wilson Chandler

by ny knickerbocker on Jul 29, 2010 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nah

That’s referring to players acquired in trade, but not players signed in FA. Any FA who signs can not be traded until December 15th.

by jlaw on Jul 30, 2010 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

woah

you just blew my mind with that bit o’ info.

by ben linus on Jul 31, 2010 2:11 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Damn..

Completely forgot about that, i was joking about the ban thing ya know :0

"As humans we strive for success but live with fear. If success was inevitable, fear cannot exist" Michael Kelley

by MikeTheIntern on Jul 29, 2010 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

If the Knicks get this guy we should have a NY Knick Dunk Contest. I think Shannon would could take out Amare, and Bully.

Starks > Jordan

by BNandez on Jul 29, 2010 4:26 PM EDT reply actions  

for real

we are already going to be the dunkingest team around. Adding Shannon Brown would just be decadent.

by flossy on Jul 29, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't see the fit.

I’d say we have enough in the guard spots. His athleticism is amazing, but he takes a lot of terrible shots. And non-existant D.

by RobDiablo44 on Jul 29, 2010 4:26 PM EDT reply actions  

Is his D that bad?

I guess that’s his one the ball D pause. Cuz I’ve seen him have a lot of blocks in transition, so at least he’ll make it tough for guys to score on the fast break…make em earn it at the line and shit like that.

Go New York Go!

by FreeBradshaw on Jul 29, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

He plays pretty good team defense,

He is, after all, a Michigan State product if I’m not mistaken.

This is a great get, in my opinion. I was split between wanting him and Amundson, but we have enough tall string beans.

By signing Felton, a deft passer, and by playing:
Amare
Randolph
Walker
Chandler
Mozgov

We’re an alley-oop team, gentlemen. Let’s embrace it by signing one of the best dunkers alive.

by Osborn on Jul 29, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

seriously

the dunks this season are gonna be epic.

ugh… season. start. now.

I am a fan of both the mets and knicks... so just kill me now.

by gbaked on Jul 29, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agree with you on the dunks!

might give the Gary Payton, Shawn Kemp SuperSonics a run for their money in highlight reel dunks.

Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitudes...

by Major on Jul 29, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

i'm a fan of this guy

might as well get him; the offer is only gonna be like $3 mil a year given that we don’t have much cap room left.

by latrell chokewell on Jul 29, 2010 4:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Shannon Brown makes Rudy Fernandez

look like Gary Payton. And he can’t even shoot. He loves to run and is a sick athlete, but I’m only down for this if he comes really cheap/short term.

by flossy on Jul 29, 2010 4:35 PM EDT reply actions  

Shannon Brown makes Rudy Fernandez

look like Gary Payton. And he can’t even shoot. He loves to run and is a sick athlete, but I’m only down for this if he comes really cheap/short term.

by flossy on Jul 29, 2010 4:35 PM EDT reply actions  

Easy.

We treat ourselves with respect here at P&T.

by gian casimiro on Jul 29, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

you realize he told himself to shut up

i always thought self-hate was an ok thing. but what do i know i’m a bastard.

"Why does green mean that's the color green? Why can't you say another word for green being green? Know what i'm saying?" - Stephon

"Anyway, you should check out the movie "Black and White," which actually stars Allan Houston. It’s not a comedy, but rather a really serious and emotional movie." - Wilson Chandler

by ny knickerbocker on Jul 29, 2010 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

hehe

I think he did realize that when he said that we treat “ourselves” with respect here. Gotta read the fine print… gets ya everytime.

by Zhantee on Jul 30, 2010 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well that's unexpected

I..I don’t know what to make of this. I believe he does much of WTDD, right?

"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy

by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jul 29, 2010 4:37 PM EDT reply actions  

way I see it

is he’s more of what Bill Walker do. From what I’ve seen of him, he’s not as good a shooter as Walker, but then again, I had no clue Bully was that good of a shooter.

I mean, if he played a bunch of minutes for the Lakers….I mean that’s gotta count for something right? Bringing a dude who’s from a winner, so he’s gotta know what it takes even if hes’ a role player.

Go New York Go!

by FreeBradshaw on Jul 29, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Brown could be a solid player in an up tempo system like the Knicks

But he’s probably gonna be back with LA . Its worth a try though.

Going for #28

by NJ Champ on Jul 29, 2010 4:44 PM EDT reply actions  

shannon brown sprained the thumb on his shooting hand after the all star break.

if you look at his pre-allstar break numbers, he wasn’t bad. 45% fg and 33% from deep.

he was infamously lit up by ray allen in game 2, making a lot of mental mistakes covering him. i think he was just kind of frazzled. that’s not typical of him.

the real knock on shannon is his skill level. not a confident passer at all. doesn’t have a great handle despite having giant hands; but at least he won’t dribble into traffic or something dumb like that. he plays within himself and he’s very coachable.

"I've hacked into your brain. You're throwing a party and no one's showing up."

by ignign*kt on Jul 29, 2010 4:53 PM EDT reply actions  

show me the money

but a defending champ coached by Philip is more than welcome IMO.

If you're a real Yankee fan, please do the rest of us a favor and splurge the extra cash on a replica jersey without a last name on the back. Frankly, it's embarassing.

by total hermination on Jul 29, 2010 5:00 PM EDT reply actions  

shannon brown over fernandez

i think brown is going to try to resign with the lakers. why give up playing with a 2 time champion team, and koby. but if he comes here it will be a great look. yes we all know we will have a dunkers delight going on in madison square garden. brown can run the floor just the way D’antoni likes it. i can see it now brown being fast like nate toney douglas getting steal and fast breaking it with brown alley-ops o man.

by choplo on Jul 29, 2010 5:13 PM EDT reply actions  

I believe the Lakers might need to trade Sasha before signing Shannon Brown

This is a really good pick up because you don’t know if Bully is really ready to play a lot of minutes. Shannon is well schooled, shoots ok, plays nice D but not amazing but he is another freakish athlete that Donnie Walsh seems to be stacking the roster with.

I’d rather Brown over Fernandez because Rudy is either flame on or a non factor. Meanwhile, Shannon can contribute to the team in many other area’s if his shot isn’t falling.

Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitudes...

by Major on Jul 29, 2010 5:32 PM EDT reply actions  

and guess what

playing with koby, lamar, & gasol he learned alot from these guys in practice on the floor from phil jackson. he got playoff and finals expirence. sh!t 2 rings. shannon might be a good pick up if we can get him.

by choplo on Jul 29, 2010 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

the lakers blog seems kind of meh about him

http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2010/7/28/1591909/player-report-card-shannon-brown

But he might be a better fit for D’Antoni. Still, this is not what I like to hear:

And oh God, his defense. Coming into LA, Brown’s athletic ability and propensity for highlight blocks led to many classifying him as a defensive specialist, but it’s become painfully evident that he either does not possess the mentality or the basketball IQ to effectively transpose his natural talents into solid defense. His core weakness is an inability to correctly transverse screens, but there are countless other issues present as well.

by flossy on Jul 29, 2010 5:35 PM EDT reply actions  

lots of posters there

would rather not see him go.

I am a fan of both the mets and knicks... so just kill me now.

by gbaked on Jul 29, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Judging from the comment

Brown is a highlight reel that actually is a bonehead…seems a bit like our Anthony Randolph.

The real big stickler here is the contract. If its like say…1yr, for whatever we have left in cap room….who the hell cares?

Brown is a 2 guard isn’t he? I’d think he’s as much of a possible starter as Bookie, Walker or I guess Chandler right?

..so why not if that’s the deal?

Go New York Go!

by FreeBradshaw on Jul 29, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

wait a minute....

you said “extend”

Go New York Go!

by FreeBradshaw on Jul 29, 2010 5:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Let's Not Forget

We don’t want Shannon Brown coming here if he’s going to get too big of a role. It didn’t work out this year with Trevor Ariza, so I would be wary of signing Shannon Brown unless his role is the same as/slightly increased from his role with Los Angeles.

by MassiveSmith on Jul 29, 2010 6:19 PM EDT reply actions  

I like this

"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
TURRIBLE!

by Jaxis on Jul 29, 2010 6:20 PM EDT reply actions  

Oh, and Shannon Brown's Contract

won’t extend passed 2 years. I’d say something like 2 yrs/6.5-7 mill with a team option on the 2nd.

by MassiveSmith on Jul 29, 2010 6:23 PM EDT reply actions  

I'd like to see shannon brown in blue and orange

He’s a freak athletically, and fits in our system because of his hops and his ability to get back and punch fast break lay ups into the stands..maybe he develops a shot, who knows? But for a short term deal, I’d take him..i can’t wait for a fastbreak with felton in the middle, randolph on his left, and brown on his right

Plus he looks like chris brown, and that’s just funny

<follow me @theinfamousazad

by zlander on Jul 29, 2010 7:32 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

I'm really split about this.

It seems as if Brown’s more or less a better polished Bill Walker. I suppose if the deal’s cheap and short, I can dig it, but otherwise it feels like a lateral, clogging move.

"He's the straw that makes the drink go."

by Thelonious Dunk on Jul 29, 2010 7:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Shannon brown is a poor decision maker, is turnover prone, and has a very high tendency to put up

weak as kobe imitation shots; courtesy of SSR. Brown dissappeared during the playoffs, for the most part, and is too bad of a dribbler to play the point or even the sg position. If brown agrees this is an overpayment, imo.

For every sunset, there will always be a sunrise.

by Bkj on Jul 29, 2010 8:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah, but Shannon Brown is young, athletic, and has a lot of time/room to grow into a better player.

"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
TURRIBLE!

by Jaxis on Jul 29, 2010 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Athletic yes, but for years before coming to the lakers brown was struggling for a rotation spot

in the nba, let alone winning two consecutive chips. Brown was a add-in in the radmonovich dump; you see playing next to the worlds best b-ball player allowed brown to showcase his talents. I won’t take away his attributes, but I am skeptical

For every sunset, there will always be a sunrise.

by Bkj on Jul 29, 2010 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

some players just need a chance

he’d have every opportunity to win a starting job if he was in NY. Maybe he wins it, maybe he wins it and plays himself out of it…either way, the dude played minutes with the Champs, to a coach that’s pretty fickle to who’s in his rotations and usually doesn’t take crap.

For 1 year and whatever the Knicks have on the cap, I can’t see a bad part of it to take a flier on him

Go New York Go!

by FreeBradshaw on Jul 29, 2010 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I strongly agree with the fact that some players need a chance. IMO, it just wouldn't be right to give brown a 3 year 12 million dollar contract or something in that ball park

because he honestly hasn’t done much to prove that he is worth that kind of money. Anyway, the lakers are better off with steve blake than they are with shannon brown, so I expect that the knicks get shannon

For every sunset, there will always be a sunrise.

by Bkj on Jul 29, 2010 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Donnie has shown with his recent moves

he’s not doing that. I don’t even think they have $4 mill to give up either.

If they do, I can see a Mozgov like deal.

Go New York Go!

by FreeBradshaw on Jul 29, 2010 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, just like Dudley was the throw in in the JRich deal.

"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
TURRIBLE!

by Jaxis on Jul 29, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's probably true

but many also say that he’s a bad fit for the triangle offense. He was a decent enough player, don’t let the Laker bandwagoners influence too much of this…they’re a lot like my Yanks fans…basically, if you’re not a starter, you suck. Its the World of Wagons.

Pringles free flowing offense made people like Al harrington into semi-effective players, even someone like Chris Duhon.

I can’t see this being for more then 1 year, or maybe 1 year and some options. But I don’t think he’d be a bad get.

Go New York Go!

by FreeBradshaw on Jul 29, 2010 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

still..

Phil Jackson’s not gonna play a pile of crap 20 minutes a game for 82 games. He must’ve been doing something right.

Go New York Go!

by FreeBradshaw on Jul 29, 2010 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

true, but that is because he was at the very least a servicable player to reserve d-fish for the playoffs; I'm saying that you shouldn't count

on brown to be more than a very fancy reserve player. He has the potential to thrive in this system, but his past makes me skeptical about that at the very least.

For every sunset, there will always be a sunrise.

by Bkj on Jul 29, 2010 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

yea that was probably too far....

guess I just mean he can make crap into a good player.

Can we get a legit 2-guard out of a combo of Bookie Brown Walker? Why not….

Go New York Go!

by FreeBradshaw on Jul 29, 2010 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

This guy is 25 years old

and a “poor dribbler” If he can’t dribble now, when will he learn how? This is the NBA, not the CYO.

by Vincent C on Jul 30, 2010 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

i don’t hate it, but i’m not a fan of it.

i still think LA’s gonna pay him.

by pmsjerk on Jul 29, 2010 8:10 PM EDT reply actions  

Shannon Brown brings energy

and is perfect for the D’Antoni system,but something tells me he’s going to sign with the Lakers.

by NYKFan4Life on Jul 29, 2010 8:30 PM EDT reply actions  

What's your take on this deal?

1. The Lakers trade Sasha Vujacic for Ronnie Turiaf, which is basically a swap of an expiring contract for a 2yr deal.

2. The Blazers send the Lakers Rudy Fernandez.

3. The Lakers convey a #1 pick + our two second rounders (which originally belonged to the Knicks and Heat) to Portland.

I guess the Lakers could include Shannon Brown or substitute him for Turiaf, but the whole point of NY signing off on this deal is to create capspace.

"I've hacked into your brain. You're throwing a party and no one's showing up."

by ignign*kt on Jul 29, 2010 9:14 PM EDT reply actions  

and I like our frontcourt depth. Its juuuuuuust right (I guess).

If I knew Mozgov was for real, then I guess Turiaf is expendable, but I don’t think anyone knows that

Go New York Go!

by FreeBradshaw on Jul 29, 2010 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

i see what you mean

the lakers could include derrick caracter, but I think he’s a gem and that’d be a deal-breaker.

"I've hacked into your brain. You're throwing a party and no one's showing up."

by ignign*kt on Jul 29, 2010 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

hmm.....

Character’s a dude the Knicks liked.

Well…while my personal hate for Sasha aside, if he’s “the Machine” again, he can sure as hell shoot 3’s and actually is a surprising good defender. Suppose if he’s on my team, I could root for em.

Go New York Go!

by FreeBradshaw on Jul 29, 2010 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gotta admit, I kinda like Sasha as an agitator as well.

by Crackback on Jul 29, 2010 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

according to espn LA (double vom)

the lakers pitched sasha and a first rounder to the cavs in exchange for Delonte earlier this week, but the cavs weren’t interested.
I’d definitely consider that for say buike or walker. Sasha is a pure shooter and definitely a hound on D. Ask ray allen. Plus an extra first rounder is never a bad thing.

If you’re going to start shannon brown at SG, you might as well start chandler at SG. Numbers aren’t very different, and we know chandy’s range was limited at first with that ankle recovery. Doesn’t feel like brown fits a need, despite how fun he is to watch.

"Game Knows Game"

by Ray Smuckles on Jul 29, 2010 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

not a fan of this

we need turiaf way more than vujacic, and just eddy curry expiring alone should create enough cap space for us next summer. we don’t need to leverage our assets any more.

by latrell chokewell on Jul 29, 2010 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t know if he’s really a player they need at this point. More talent is usually a good thing but they seem to have a pretty good balance going on as things are, they shouldn’t change for something that isn’t a clear upgrade.

by paxon on Jul 29, 2010 9:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Weird

I don’t really get it. Maybe they just want someone with a championship ring on the team? Maybe Azubuike isn’t going to be ready?

Maybe they are just trying to fuck with the Lakers. Though I don’t know why. The Lakers are shopping Vujacic to a team with cap space because they need the space to sign Brown. This is pushing that issue. With the Knicks offer out there, if the Lakers want Brown back they’re going to get a bit frantic to rid themselves of Vujacic.

by fuhry on Jul 29, 2010 10:04 PM EDT reply actions  

From Tommy Dee:

Update 7:10- Tommy Says…Multiple sources confirm that the Knicks have NOT offered Shannon Brown, but they are closely monitoring the situation with the Lakers. The Lakers are in flux in trying to maneuver players to fit the roster. They obviously had an active FA off season. The Knicks will wait to see what happens with the Lakers before officially offering Brown. Word is both sides have mutual interest.

by fuhry on Jul 29, 2010 10:07 PM EDT reply actions  

i'd take brown if we cant rudy

he’s an actual 2 guard which is honestly the only missing piece on the team that we can address . plus the dunks would be suuuuuuper stupid. imagine amare dunking on bosh then brown coming down the lane on the fastbreak for a one handed finisher…smh i’d drop my popcorn hotdog or soda in a heartbeat just to celebrate

In Donnie We Trust!

by IB on Jul 29, 2010 11:25 PM EDT reply actions  

Is there any chance we can work out some sort of 3 team deal with

the Clippers and the Lakers? We get Eric Gordon, the Clippers get Sasha Vujacic, Wilson Chandler, and the Lakers’ 1st round pick, and Los Angeles get the cap relief to re-sign Shannon Brown. I think this is a pretty good deal for every team involved, but I’m not sure the Clippers will give up Eric Gordon.

by MassiveSmith on Jul 30, 2010 12:21 AM EDT reply actions  

so the lakes give up

a 1st rd pick and sasha v just to resign brown? lol.

Toney does what the douglas do. And no one can do what he does b/c doing it without being Toney Douglas just doesnt make it do what it do

by semsemma on Jul 30, 2010 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

i'd do anything to get rid of vujacic

/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \

by stingy d on Jul 30, 2010 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Aight

Quit droolin on other teams’ players. The shit’s unseemly.

by fuhry on Jul 30, 2010 1:39 AM EDT reply actions  

He's not currently on anyone's roster though

Not that I understand the interest. I mean he’s nice on YouTube but lots of dudes have had roles on championship teams and have gone on to suck elsewhere. It also doesn’t seem to make a ton of sense given the mix of players already on board

by Dutchmarau on Jul 30, 2010 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

I like brown 6th man role over there

he brings intensity and aggresiveness on offense…most notibly on tha fast break… but I really dont see how this upgrades our team. We have bully who does what he does(walker is a lil bit slower), chandler who finishes at the rim, randolph, and amare. All those are athletic players who bring what Sh. Brown brings.

 I might also say that i like bully better, i think he is less o.c than brown is. And shyt, put bully in that position around those guys in L.A.. i would think hed puull those same numbers..

maybe we are just trying to get a player with “upside” to add to the possible trade ngo come deadline time. Thats the only reason this makes sense. we have about 3 M in cap right? SO…might as well scrap up some young talent thats left on the FA list for tha low.

Toney does what the douglas do. And no one can do what he does b/c doing it without being Toney Douglas just doesnt make it do what it do

by semsemma on Jul 30, 2010 8:41 AM EDT reply actions  

competetion

another “proven winner”….what’s the real big deal?

He’d have an outside shot at winning the 2-guard spot. Its depth with whatever he does. Bookie’s not certain given his injury. Walker’s not as experienced as Brown.

If the contract is only for a year…why not? The Blazers don’t seem to be in a hurry to get rid of Rudy F, and even if they did the cost seems astronomical.

…so why not?

Go New York Go!

by FreeBradshaw on Jul 30, 2010 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

slept on it, still don't like this move

“He’s a SF in a PG’s body” – Phil Jackson.

How about a PG in a PG’s body? Or even a SG in a SG’s body? All of the bowel-loosening dunks don’t change the fact that SB has no handle or passing ability for a guy who is 6’4", is very streaky shooter and has and questionable defensive skills (crazy blocks aside). I know we have some big question marks at SG but what does he do that Chandler doesn’t? Or that Walker doesn’t? He wouldn’t be the worst way in the world to spend $2mm or so, but I’d rather exhaust our options with Fernandez who could start at SG on day 1.

Oh well, we’ll see what happens. Worst case scenario, we have the best track and field team in the NBA.

by flossy on Jul 30, 2010 9:36 AM EDT reply actions  

High Flying

We will have one of the Best High Wire Acts in the NBA. I love the move!

by tutman on Jul 30, 2010 10:15 AM EDT reply actions  

Shannon Brown

Just doesn’t feel like a starter on a winning team. But I think he’s better than Bill Walker. Knicks need a shot-creator now…not sure what another slasher/finisher is going to do to help them.

by TheRealKingFish on Jul 30, 2010 10:18 AM EDT reply actions  

I'd rather Rudy

when a guy has to tell fans that he’s “more than a dunker,” he’s not.

by Taylor Bartle on Jul 30, 2010 2:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Get Greedy!

Well I am greedy. I want both S.Brown and R.Fernandez. This puts us in great postion to get rid of our soft players and play old NYK defense. S.Brown for defense and R.Fernandez for offense.
Now can you all see how far down D.Gallinari falls on the depth chart.
Walsh is building a team with not only pleasing D’Antoni for the next two years. He is even getting players that will be here when D’Antoni is gone.
Just watch as I wish for J.Van Gundy to come back in two years.

by Dziedzic on Jul 30, 2010 3:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Gallo ain't falling on the depth chart

the only thing falling with Gallo is his jumpshots

Go New York Go!

by FreeBradshaw on Jul 30, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

please explain

how either Shannon Brown or Rudy Fernandez is significantly better than Gallinari. and more than just “he’s soft,” please. clearly no one agrees with that assessment, so you’ll have to use some statistics or at least video evidence to convince the fine folks here at P&T.

(not like it matters, i know you’re never gonna do this)

by latrell chokewell on Jul 30, 2010 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

please explain

if only for entertainment value.

/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \

by stingy d on Jul 30, 2010 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

lmao this guys a fool

LET'S GO RANGERS!!!

by Moshe52792 on Jul 31, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well Here it is

Just D.Lee Gallinari has only had loosing seasons. Thats a fact and also just watch how many he scores and the other player he is guarding scores. It usually in favor of the other player. That is why you loose because you give up more then you score. You do understand math and alll the loses the the Knicks have had since Gallo and Lee were here.
Stop chopping off my head with this Gallinari thing already. Al I am sayibng is he could be a solid backup PF with the second unit. This is not bad it just what it is. Stop putting all over the lineup when we have now better players to fill roles. Let’s see, A.Stoudemire Starting PF and D.Gallinari Backup PF. This is the best position to succeed and contribute towards the future success of the team. This enables him to dominate scoring agaisn’t the other teams second unit along with better help on the defensive end. Now we still gett solid scoring from him along with maybe just some more victories.

by Dziedzic on Aug 3, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

You see what you just said
This enables him to dominate scoring agaisn’t the other teams second unit along with better help on the defensive end

If your second year player can do this…and your team has most recently gone through a rebuild.. you put this guy in your starting lineup with starting caliber players around him so he can further enhance his game. challenging a young player with players who are more polished than him will only make him reach his ceiling at a faster rate. Putting him against lesser quality guys will only stunt him. you do the latter only if your young player is struggling ie.. sending a guy to d league or AAA in baseball.

Toney does what the douglas do. And no one can do what he does b/c doing it without being Toney Douglas just doesnt make it do what it do

by semsemma on Aug 3, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Look It Already

Its all about the team and not some favorite you have in Gallinari. Repeat again to you A.Stoudemire/PF T.Mozgov/C W.Chandler/SF R.Felton/PG K.Azubuike/SG…We now have depth for the PG/SG/SF/C/ positions with the second unit. The only palce your Gallinari fits is Second unit PF. How can you not see this? He is not anything but a big player whom can be a solid second unit PF.

by Dziedzic on Aug 3, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

maybe that's now

but if you don’t see that he’s a young player who can get better, why even argue this?

You even talk about Mozgov as an actual piece, yet what have you seen him actually do aside from youtube highlights?

by FreeBradshaw on Aug 3, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

You didn't answer my question.

I was looking for why you would prefer Brown or Fernandez to Gallinari (i.e. the discussion that’s actually relevant to this thread). Either way, your arguments are narrow-minded at best and, ironically, seem to be emotionally driven with no regard for rhetoric. A warning to all of the P&T regulars: I’m going tl;dr for this one:

Gallinari has only had loosing seasons.

Seasons in the plural sense isn’t really fair; his first season was generally lost due to injury, and Gallo only played in 28 games. Nevertheless, the team went 14-14 with Gallo in the lineup, so to claim that Gallinari has only had losing seasons is blatantly false. You will undoubtedly counter with his second year this last season, and I will counter with Chris Duhon, Al Harrington, Larry Hughes, and whatever other terrible Knicks you want to add. The point here is that you can’t single out Gallinari strictly because of his play last season on a really bad team. There’s no reason to blame him more than any other player.

also just watch how many he scores and the other player he is guarding scores. It usually in favor of the other player.

Well, you offered zero evidence for your claim. Without breaking down each individual game tape (impossible due to lack of access), the best we can do is advanced metrics. Using Dean Oliver’s Offensive & Defensive Rating System (ORtg = points scored per 100 possessions & DRtg = points given up per 100 possesions), Gallo’s ORtg was higher than his DRtg in both of his seasons (Stats via basketball-reference.com). Additionally, using 82games’ Individual Player Floor Time Statistics (solely based on the on-court scoring results), Gallo had the best rating of any Knicks player in the regular rotation besides Jeffries and the limited amount of Nate Robinson we saw in 09-10 (Stats via 82games.com). Obviously it’s a negative number; this is generally standard when the team loses games. Everybody who plays relevant minutes and games will be negative on a losing team; it’s a testament to Gallo’s effectiveness that he was one of the least negative players on the floor. At the very least, he was more effective than Chandler, who you have starting.

Al I am sayibng is he could be a solid backup PF with the second unit. This is not bad it just what it is. Stop putting all over the lineup when we have now better players to fill roles.

This is based on what, exactly? Although Gallo could have played PF, you are right in that it doesn’t make sense as the team is currently constructed. Amare and Randolph should take all of the minutes there. However, you are wrong in saying that we now have better players to fill roles. There is not a better player on the team to play the SF position; Gallinari is categorically better than Chandler, and considering that Gallinari is more of a perimeter player offensively, he is actually better suited to play the SF spot now regardless.

If you want to critique any of this, then be my guest. Even if you disagree, there’s a burden of proof you need to meet if you want to throw a Knicks player under the bus on a Knicks fan site. Otherwise, it’s tantamount to trolling.

by latrell chokewell on Aug 3, 2010 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am All For The Knicks

Please I am saying from watching Gallinari play that he is a solid backup PF. That is all I am saying. That is from watching him play. Don’t give me that BS he is young. When you sign million dollar contracts you become a man. I will root for Gallianri to contribute towards future victories with all our new talent. But he is not a NBA starter.

by Dziedzic on Aug 4, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

brown isnt exactly known as a defense type o guy.

getting s brown and rudy have nothing to do with gallo’s pt. i question your logic bub

Toney does what the douglas do. And no one can do what he does b/c doing it without being Toney Douglas just doesnt make it do what it do

by semsemma on Jul 30, 2010 3:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Defensive guy?

Who on the Knicks is known as a defensive kind of guy?

by M I K E on Jul 30, 2010 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

a lot of people actually...

almost 80% of our team.

Felton, Douglas, Azubuike, Chandler, Turiaf, Randolph.

And even those who aren’t “defensive minded players” bring something to the table – Gallo’s length (remember him playing the top of the key), Amare’s weakside shotblocking, Mozgov’s size and def potential.

Don’t rely on the 09-10 depth chart..

by tz88 on Jul 30, 2010 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Stay away...

Please stop trolling NetsDaily website… Thank You..

Hope the Knicks do well this year…

by M I K E on Jul 30, 2010 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

@tz88;

Comment not meant for you. Knicks are doing pretty good job this off season. Hang in there…

by M I K E on Jul 30, 2010 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Someone get this guy some meds

Are you trolling witht that comment? No.

Are you talking about me trolling? Cant see how. Talk bas-ket-ballll.

Toney does what the douglas do. And no one can do what he does b/c doing it without being Toney Douglas just doesnt make it do what it do

by semsemma on Aug 2, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

tz88

Yes tz88 just answered your question about defense.
He listed the right players whom play defense.
He did fail to mentioned A.Stoudemire however, whom will give you a solid 8or9 rebouds a game. He might even improve his man defense now that we have some bodies for the middle.

by Dziedzic on Aug 3, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

doesn't make sense to me

Brown is a nice player, but not what we need right now. He is marginally better (or even worse) than the 3 people he’ll be competing with.

On the other hand, I would like to see us get Rudy. I think a change of scenery would be good for him. It seems like the only way it will get done is if its Chandler for Rudy. That would be a pretty risky deal. I think Wil could be primed for a big year. If we can somehow get it done with Walker and 2 2nd rounders? I’d do that in a heartbeat.

by tz88 on Jul 30, 2010 6:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Wil Chandler

I’m not sure exactly what about Wil Chandler it is that everyone thinks is so amazing. I look at him, I see an alright player. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but I don’t see what he does at a high level. Rudy Fernandez can shoot. He’s a great shooter. I’d trade Chandler for Fernandez straight up in a heartbeat and start him at the 2.
Bill Walker and 2 2nd rounders won’t get you anything whatsoever.

by TheRealKingFish on Jul 31, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

id be perfectly fine with trading rudy for chandler straight up

honestly..

felton-rudy-gallo-amar’e-turiaf is beast with..
douglas-walker-landry-randolph-mozgov as a second unit..

LET'S GO RANGERS!!!

by Moshe52792 on Jul 31, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

@Tz88

In a ideal world getting Rudy for Walker would be nice along with the 2’s mentioned.
I like W.Chandler also for our three spot, however, we can give him up now because we have players to fill that role for one year while we wait until next year to get Carmelo. the big three of Stoudemire, Fernandez and Anthony is not to shabby to go for it along with Felton and Douglas and the rest of the role players. this gives us ten man rotation to compete every night along with unexpected injuries that come about during a season.

by Dziedzic on Aug 3, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let's sum it up in 2 words

Why not?

High-upside, low-risk player that would most likely fit in perfectly in Pringles’ system.

I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.

Vince Lombardi

by moose35 on Jul 31, 2010 2:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Am I missing something, or aren't we trying to bring in Brown as a free agent?

Some of the comments on here seem to convey the notion we are trading for him or Sasha from the Lakers?

Im all for bringing in Shannon Brown. He’s got some upside, dude can play solid defense (had to play defense if he went to Michigan St), and he can play above the rim. Plus he played on a team that won back to back rings, so he can impart some knowledge that absorbed onto our team. I don’t see how signing him would be a bad thing.

Never underestimate the power of a neck brace and wheelchair. In Donnie Walsh I trust!

by Rohpuri on Jul 31, 2010 2:53 PM EDT reply actions  

don't know if this has already been posted

but from alex kennedy’s twitter:

Shannon Brown’s offer from the New York Knicks is worth $4-5 million per year, according to one source.
about 15 hours ago via web

to me, that seems a bit high, unless its a 1-2 year deal which seems likely at that price level. personally as long as the contract is a short one, i don’t mind so much. what do you guys think?

"Why does green mean that's the color green? Why can't you say another word for green being green? Know what i'm saying?" - Stephon

"Anyway, you should check out the movie "Black and White," which actually stars Allan Houston. It’s not a comedy, but rather a really serious and emotional movie." - Wilson Chandler

by ny knickerbocker on Jul 31, 2010 3:56 PM EDT reply actions  

1 year

I could care less. Anything beyond that is a concern imo. But as you said, 5 million isn’t much. But it is a fair amout for “a dude with potential” that has a lot of problems. He’s no AR.

I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.

Vince Lombardi

by moose35 on Jul 31, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

1 year

money doesn’t matter. If anything, its another trade piece at the deadline that’s expiring. The more the better so it could match up with…._

Go New York Go!

by FreeBradshaw on Jul 31, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm only down

for one year. Any more than that and Brown becomes a financial handcuff.

"He's the straw that makes the drink go."

by Thelonious Dunk on Jul 31, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

NYK has just over 3 mill in cap space the way I hear it...

just do see them going over the cap for Shannon Brown.

"I am not now at all sure that the tendency to treat the whole thing as a kind of vast game is really good - certainly not for me who find that kind of thing only too fatally attractive." - J R R Tolkein

by Olbrannon on Jul 31, 2010 6:11 PM EDT reply actions  

right

cause otherwise it wouldnt really be an exception. The cap would just be bigger.

I am a fan of both the mets and knicks... so just kill me now.

by gbaked on Aug 1, 2010 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

whats taking him so long

4-5 million per? stop looking at the standings from last year and take that money. Dolan showing no respect for the cap as usual

If you're a real Yankee fan, please do the rest of us a favor and splurge the extra cash on a replica jersey without a last name on the back. Frankly, it's embarassing.

by total hermination on Jul 31, 2010 10:25 PM EDT reply actions  

ugh, we need Rudy Fernandez, people

Not another wing player with no real guard skills for as much $5 million per year! Shannon Brown is undersized with NateRobinson/Al Harringtonesque decision-making tendencies, and an overrated defender. We’re going to have plenty of highlight-worth dunks and blocks without him. We need backcourt depth that can actually handle the ball and create offense rather than just finish.

Rudy Fernandez, Jerry Bayless
for
Wilson Chandler, Toney Douglas, and Walker or a 2nd round pick, whichever they prefer

They get great value back for a guy who will leave no matter what: Wilson Chandler is a young, inexpensive, talented, athletic SF with upside who could definitely challenge Batum and Babbitt for minutes or be very easily traded, either way. Toney Douglas is a great fit for a bench guard for them: an excellent shooter, defender and teammate who would do well playing alongside a guy like Roy who likes the ball in his hands a lot.

We get the starting SG for our team, much cheaper and with more upside than Shannon Brown. Rudy Fernandez is just not well used in Portland, he’s a legit all around player who is perfect for D’Antoni: he can shoot the lights out but also creates his own shot, handles well and can put in a few minutes at PG at 6’6", and is an underrated—at least serviceable and certainly no worse than Shannon Brown—defender. If we wanted to really freak people out sometimes we could play Fernandez (6’6"), Gallo (6’10"), Randolph (6’11"), Stat (6’10") and Mozgov (7’10"). That would be stupidly tall and kind of awesome. We’d also get Bayless, who has more upside than Douglas for the same price, and keep Azubiuke, who if healthy and combined with Landry Fields would still make for a stacked 2nd unit along with Mozgov, and Turiaf/Randolph. I’m not too attached to Walker or a future 2nd rounder.

The trades work out in the trade machine. I don’t know that Portland would do this, but I’d be all over it. I think if comes down to losing Fernandez for nothing, this is a more attractive offer than either Boston or Chicago can offer, and I don’t think the Bulls, Celtics or we are going to offer a 1st rounder.

Felton/Bayless/Fernandez
Fernandez/Azubuike/Bayless/Walker(?) or Rautins
Gallo/Randolph/Azubuike/Fields
Amar’e/Randolph/Gallo
Turiaf/Randolph/Mozgov (maybe reverse the first two)

by flossy on Aug 1, 2010 2:26 PM EDT reply actions  

so trade 2 solid defenders off the bench

for 2 matadors?

I’d rather the Knicks be patient. Try and get him in the offseason if need be, see if the Blazers pick up his option or not.

No problem with trading for Rudy, he’s cheap and essentially team controlled for under or at $3million until 2013 (which is probably why they keep him).

by FreeBradshaw on Aug 1, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Douglas and Chandler

Are two of our best defenders. Chandler is our most versatile and Douglas could turn into Rondo-Lite. A ball hawk with a better jump shot. Plus a second unit of Douglas/Walker/Chandler/Randolph/Mozgov(?) gets me very excited. The Knicks should just stay put

by WSD on Aug 1, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like TD but

he and Rondo are not even close to being in the same league athletically. TD already has more range on his jumper than Rondo, I think their games are very different. TD projects to be a solid, Leandro Barbosa-ish player off the bench, but Rondo (even Rondo-lite) he is not.

by flossy on Aug 1, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

i see it more

as trading 2 bench players for a starter and an upgrade at backup PG. I’ve never heard anything about Bayless being a liability (you can correct me if I’m wrong though) and I think people way underrate Rudy’s defensive abilities. If nothing happens, we’ll be okay, but since Portland has to unload Rudy or watch him go back to Spain I think we should jump on it.

I’d rather we just do nothing than give anything more than $2mm/1 year to Shannon Brown.

by flossy on Aug 1, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't see the problem with signing Brown.

The Knicks aren’t trading Chandler, everything I’ve seen from the best sources say they aren’t trading him, especially for Rudy F.

Brown at worst is another 2-guard to throw in the rotation and create competition. All it costs is $2mil for 1 year, not a player.

And of course, that $2mill could be some nice added space to a trade deadline deal.

by FreeBradshaw on Aug 1, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

if it's for only 1 year I don't care

but I have a hard time seeing someone leave the defending champs for a one year tryout where they’re not even guaranteed to start. If push comes to shove though I’d rather Chandler get minutes at the two, since there’s nothing Brown offers that he doesn’t and he’s a taller and a better defender. If we don’t use up the rest of our cap space we have much greater flexibility for a mid-season trade too.

by flossy on Aug 1, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

THIS

Shannon Brown has no game. Yes, he’s a great dunker when on uncontested break-aways. But thats all he can do and that aint enough..

by Crackback on Aug 1, 2010 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

we gonna have a LOT of breakaways

but i hear you

/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \

by stingy d on Aug 2, 2010 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yup

He’s a a top dunker, but that’s all he does. If your trying to fill seats I can somewhat understand the move, but the Knicks don’t need to fill seats.

by Richard Taylor on Aug 2, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would love an edit function.

I am a fan of both the mets and knicks... so just kill me now.

by gbaked on Aug 1, 2010 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

correction to my earlier post

Larry Coon, ESPN’s cap expert, says that the most the Knicks can offer Shannon Brown is 2.7 mil, so the 4-5 mil level isn’t happening. Let’s still hope that it is only for one year.

"Why does green mean that's the color green? Why can't you say another word for green being green? Know what i'm saying?" - Stephon

"Anyway, you should check out the movie "Black and White," which actually stars Allan Houston. It’s not a comedy, but rather a really serious and emotional movie." - Wilson Chandler

by ny knickerbocker on Aug 1, 2010 3:50 PM EDT reply actions  

4-5 as a 2 year deal

/// aighttho.com \\/// twitter.com/aighttho \\

by stingy d on Aug 2, 2010 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

that would make sense based on the varying rumors

but i’m not sure i’d like it

"Why does green mean that's the color green? Why can't you say another word for green being green? Know what i'm saying?" - Stephon

"Anyway, you should check out the movie "Black and White," which actually stars Allan Houston. It’s not a comedy, but rather a really serious and emotional movie." - Wilson Chandler

by ny knickerbocker on Aug 2, 2010 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

me neither

but given how this summer shaped up, if they think thats what makes them better, i’m inclined to agree.

/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \

by stingy d on Aug 2, 2010 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shannon Brown

With Brown signing tomorrow, will that complete the Laker’s roster for next season?

by mcgrady on Aug 4, 2010 11:45 PM EDT reply actions  

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