What the Knicks gained and potentially lost with Amar'e Stoudemire
by gian casimiro on Jul 5, 2010 10:37 PM EDT
in Miscellaneous
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PrintFor two years the question was "Will the Knicks get [him]?" For two years. All of a sudden, over the past few weeks, it shifted to "WIll the Knicks get shut out?" Some of us were able to get over ourselves and realize It was a fair question what with the pieces the Bulls have in place, with Miami trimming more fat, and with some billionaire's unfamiliar, though intoxicating, energy next door.
We have an answer now, though, in the form of Amar'e Stoudemire. For $100 million, the Knicks answered with an athletic monster of a man that this franchise has never seen on a nightly basis. A man that played over everyone's head, almost literally, the second he got some assurance in Phoenix about his future. The same assurance he just received from the Knicks.
But answering that question leads to others. Questions about rebounding and defense that the Knicks have enough problems solving. So let's look at the new power forward compared to the other three available in Chris Bosh, Carlos Boozer and David Lee.
Now Osborn dropped his own thoughts on the Elite 4 months ago, and Tom Ziller examined where Bosh ranks among the era's best power forwards at the age of 25. But I'd like to swagger jack revisit the topic because it isn't just speculation anymore. It's real. It's damn real.
Using last season's totals, let's look at the big man skills we constantly debate about at P&T: scoring, rebounding and passing ability. I won't speak about his defense, partly because it's difficult to measure, partly because I have in the past, but mainly because Matt Moore just did and Amar'e stacks up favorably.
First up is scoring ability measured by points scored per 40 minutes and True Shooting percentage (which factors in free throw and three point shooting). The graph shows how frequently a player scores vs that player's efficiency when doing so.
Stoudemire simply outclasses everyone in this department. He racks up 26.7 points/40 while shooting a better percentage. He's a dominant pick and roll player coming to an offense dominated by pick and roll sets. Lee's the worst of the bunch, and though his expanding offensive game should be noted (like his jumper), Stoudemire is already on that island sipping Mai Tai's (and shooting 42% from 16-23 feet, just a shade under Lee's 43%).
But what about rebounding? That's where someone like Lee would surely be missed. His grit and nose for the ball aren't replaceable. Plus, did you SEE the Western Conference Finals?
The numbers confirm what we already knew. Amar'e has a poor total rebounding rate (percentage of available rebounds obtained by a player while he's on the court) compared to the others. He's easily the worst defensive rebounder of the bunch and averages about two less total rebounds per 40. Boozer's the best of the four but I don't think we're going to argue over who we'd rather have between the two.
And a point we like to talk about. We love Lee's passing ability. It's where he sets himself apart - why we want him to stay.
The assist rate (percentage of team's assists a player gets while he's on the floor) certainly supports the argument for Lee. There he is with better numbers than the other three free agents. I added Pau Gasol cause he's considered by many as the best passing big around and wanted to show how comparable Lee's stats were. Boozer may be a surprise but with the amount of movement and cutting the Jazz run, he gets plenty of interior assists. Bosh is somewhere in the middle, not great but certainly not incapable. And then there's Stoudemire looking up at everyone else, though it's worth noting that last season's totals were the worst of his career.
Is this necessarily a bad thing? After looking at Stoudemire's scoring ability, do we want him to give the ball up? Is this more a product of Steve Nash running the offense instead of, say, Chris Duhon? Are an extra four assists a game enough to not want Amar'e? Of course not. But where do the Knicks make that up? And about that rebounding?
More questions indeed. But what Donnie Walsh did was sign the most elite scoring big man in the league and added him to a team that struggles to score without the three-ball. It's a huge splash and Stoudemire is a sexy name, one that will perhaps convince others to come with him. Still, Walsh has more holes to fill. Thank goodness he's positioned the team to have enough flexibility to help answer them.
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good stuff gyawn
Amare’s brought here to score. I’m really hoping that the dominoes right now are HWSNBN, then Wade, then Lee, in that order.
Either of those 3 can make up for Amare’s “deficiencies” and of course Amare could finish with the best of them.
KEEP LEE!!!
amar'e plays with gusto
he’s a tad ginobilian (coast thru the first half of the season, and beast for the second half). but he is easily the most dynamic player we’ve had since spreewell. plus lee finished great at the hoop, but didn’t have that ferocity or intimidation factor. you can’t really measure that, but it plays a role in setting the tone of a game, or stopping/starting a game changing run.
plus he rocks goggles. he’s great. can’t wait to see who we get next!
twitter.com/aighttho
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goggle rockin'
is definitely under-rated. except by you, my esteemed fellow poster.
"Why does green mean that's the color green? Why can't you say another word for green being green? Know what i'm saying?" - Stephon
"Anyway, you should check out the movie "Black and White," which actually stars Allan Houston. It’s not a comedy, but rather a really serious and emotional movie." - Wilson Chandler
by ny knickerbocker on Jul 5, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
any1 else think we need to make a move for a rebounding/defending center
i love lee but not enough to bring him back and us to get killed on the interior night after night. i dont think we need to bring a stud in at the center position just someone who knows his roll and does the little things that centers need to do aka a perkins type. jerome jordan i guesss could fill that role but not yet. i know the right move is here to be patient and wait to see what the big FA’s are gonna do but id love to start putting the puzzle pieces together and start building an actual team with role guys until that happens
knicks want earl barron back
maybe he and jerome james can split time or amare can shift over at times
thats a lot of eggs in the barron basket
although i did like what he did in the 11 or so games last year or w.e it was
Did this fool just
call Jerome Jordan, Jerome… I wont even continue. Insta-Ban.
"As humans we strive for success but live with fear. If success was inevitable, fear cannot exist" Michael Kelley
by MikeTheIntern on Jul 6, 2010 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Perkins would never play for Pringles
he can’t shoot.
Ideally, they’d get a young Ewing back so he can hit corner 19fters. But I don’t think there’s a “perfect C” for what Pringles wants to do..maybe Gasol..but I’d rather lose then watch that fairy in NY.
KEEP LEE!!!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 5, 2010 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
hurts to see...
the same fairy now holds the trophy, has two rings, and that the same fairy thumped the guy the knicks that just signed up (Stoudemire) in the last western conference finals. WTF.
yea..wouldn't go and give Gasol credit for that.
Kobe, maybe you’ve heard of him Mr. Bandwagon?
KEEP LEE!!!
i think earl barron
would be plenty good for exactly what you described.
twitter.com/aighttho
http://aightthen.tumblr.com/
What About Portland???
Didn’t Portland want David Lee last summer… Is there a way we could work out a sign and trade for Pryzbilla and or Camby in a package with Rudy Fern. ? Wasn’t there rumors that Donnie was interested in Rudy???
If so, we should grab Pryzbilla or Camby… They did wonders for Portland last year… Both great on Defense and great Rebounders on both ends of the floor.
If I can make it there, I'll make it anywhere...It's up to you, New York, New York!!!!
Nooooo Rudy!
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
TURRIBLE!
speaking of portland
they just waived ryan gomes. knicks should pick him up for the minimum.
Rebounding/Defending Center
It’s really tough to find a quality center in this league currently, and especially considering the tempo of our game because they’d need to be able to run as well.
we need a post devoted...
… to dlees free agency. is anyone buying that hes actually interested in minnesota?
no, CSN Bay Area has him on his wya to GSW for Monta Ellis
"The world is full of idiots and I am the world" ... Sleepy Freud 12/08
by skeptic von urquell on Jul 5, 2010 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions
sign and trade with Lee going to Golden State
but for BIedrins instead of Ellis would be perfect. If you throw Anthony Randolph or Morrow in the salaries seem to add up.
Minny's only got like $7mill
if Lee’s signing for $7mill and its not in NY, I’ll really be pissed.
KEEP LEE!!!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 5, 2010 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions
hes not signing for 7mil
DARKO signed for 5
GOODEN Signed for 8
J JOHNSON Signed for 20
Lee is gonna sign for 12 mil
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." Micheal Jordan
"I don't need too much. Glamour and all that stuff don't excite me. I am just glad I have the game of basketball in my life." -- LeBron James
which means I ain't buying that Lee's interested in Minny
cuz he can only get $7mill.
Unless its sign and trade, and I’d take Rubio and Kevin Love off their hands
KEEP LEE!!!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 5, 2010 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
amen
"If it ain't broke, don't break it." -Charles Oakley
by Tony Marciano on Jul 6, 2010 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions
They have Jefferson who they can trade to free up $ for Lee
"Some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen." Micheal Jordan
"I don't need too much. Glamour and all that stuff don't excite me. I am just glad I have the game of basketball in my life." -- LeBron James
agree
he would stall the offense since he comes from deliberate half-court setup.
by mindcontrolproject on Jul 5, 2010 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Averages about 1.5 assists and only shoots about 50pct to boot. If youre gonna be a feature player in the post, I want you putting up at LEAST 53% and 3asts You have to be able to do it efficiently and make the occasional dish out of the post.
I'm tellin' ya guys
I live out here in the Bay Area, and Ellis is the real deal. He can score at will … he reminds me of another disgruntled Warrior (who had an unfair rep of being a clubhouse cancer) that once came to NY and took off. Mr. Sprewell, anyone? He’s one of the most athletic, physically gifted guards in the NBA, and we’d be instant Eastern Conference contenders with Ellis and Stoudemire on board.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
a BIG "Maybe"....
Last season with Curry as a Rookie….. He couldn’t get along with Curry….
Wouldn’t give him the time of day… disputes with him at practice and never had any sort of chemistry with him on the court….
If such a great player couldn’t get along with a rookie like Curry, who is regarded as a good kid with a real nice attitude…. Who is Monta going to get along with???
If we do get him… I think it will be a great idea to back him up from the beginning though… he seems like the type of player that could get his feelings hurt by the NY Media….
If I can make it there, I'll make it anywhere...It's up to you, New York, New York!!!!
That may have been related to the team swearing to him up and down they wouldn't draft a pg
Kinda sucks that they lied to his face, especially for a kid coming off injury and uncertain of his place on the team. That whole situation is poisoned in Oakland, Nellie openly doesn’t give a shit
Yes Ellis can fill it up
my only problems with him are the he doesn’t seem to know a good shot from a bad one, he’s turnover prone, and he plays absolutely no defense. Sprewell in his prime was a defensive stopper, he was really Bruce Bowen with an offensive game. Eliis is not. He is more like World B. Free, remember him, could score anywhere on the floor (just like Ellis) but couldn’t guard my grandmother. Free woud score 40 and his man would get like 45.
by Robert Currence on Jul 6, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
heard somewhere
that Ellis was turnover prone…
by blackhova on Jul 6, 2010 10:23 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
just a thought
if we cant sign anyone else this offseason..other than jj redick or mike miller, and other role players…am i the only one crazy enough to think about bringing back marbury for the vets minimum? theres no one else that will be able to run the pick n roll with amare unless we get lebron or wade..and i think if dantoni swallowed his pride for amare..he might for steph?? just a thought….
(plus if we sign and trade lee, itd rather it be for melo than parker)
<follow me @theinfamousazad
you lose, man
thats way too crazy. gave me a headache.
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http://aightthen.tumblr.com/
Bad thought
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jul 6, 2010 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Not crazy, Marbury still has enough skills to play effective point guard.
But that will never happen. Forget burning that bridge, Marbury blew it up and then poured gasoline on the splinters and lit them ablaze. No way. Before that happens, Pringles will bring back Duhon and Nate.
by Robert Currence on Jul 6, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I am not calling you crazy..
But I think you might be the only Knicks fan around at the moment, that wants Marbury anywhere NEAR the Knicks at the moment. Things are finally looking up for the Knicks and you want to bring one if not the biggest blemish of the entire franchise back? Thanks, but no thanks.
You know what? Amare's is not that bad at passing.
He has low passing numbers, but that’s because of the system he plays in. Think about it. You guys have all seen Suns games. What happens? Nash dribbles around and around until a defender commits, and then Nash drops it off to Stoudemire for the dunk.
Basically, he really is never presented with the opportunity to pass. He’s usually getting the under the basket, and all he has to do is go up strong. They don’t post him up and let him slowly back down people.
Steve Nash is on his team, and so everyone else is just getting wide open threes and dunks. Everyone besides Nash are just finishers. That’s why it looks like he’s a bad passer. Don’t believe it. I’ve seen him drop some really pretty dimes.
by StarksMiddleFinger on Jul 6, 2010 1:35 AM EDT reply actions
He did a great job passing the rock in the playoffs; his turnover rate to assit ratio is unfavorable, which makes his assits numbers look really bad as well.
I'm about 93% sure that Marion did Marijuana, the other 7% is probably weed.
by Bkj on Jul 6, 2010 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I understand why you would consider Marbury, I thought about it, but he’s not worth the risk of failure. People in the east dont get to see Monta much, but he is absolutely dynamic. although I would easily choose Parker.
You guys should pursue nash! lol, I don't think it has soaked into me yet that amar'e and nash will never play a game together again.
Not even during teh all-star game
I'm about 93% sure that Marion did Marijuana, the other 7% is probably weed.
by Bkj on Jul 6, 2010 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions
It all depends on how amar'e feels; the last half of the season he averaged 30/10/2, he wanted to get to the playoffs.
If amar’e is up to the task he can easily rack the points, rebounds, and yes even assits in bunches.
I'm about 93% sure that Marion did Marijuana, the other 7% is probably weed.
Insanity
Another 10 years of hell for Knick fans.
Amare is not much better than Lee at this point, and without Nash feeding him, these numbers will go down.
Money could have been better spent, and now we don’t have enough for another max contract.
If he gets hurt again, Knicks are done for year stuck with another bad contract.
Same old, same old.
10 years?
he comes off the books in 5 years, buddy
Yes, 10 years
IN another 5 years the Knick brass will make another bonehead move. I was referring to the past 10 years of the Knicks being awful, and I see another 10 coming.
Since When
Dont the Knicks have enough for another max? Do yall even think before you spot doom and gloom? If we signed LeBron and he got hurt, would you feel better?
Everyone is an injury risk, anyone can get hurt.
Not according to reports
According to all reports I have read the past few days, they originally agreed to this deal with the understanding that if Lebron would agree to come, he would have to take less. Now this deal is being reported as a done deal, with no mention of an out for the Knicks for a lower sum. Something’s missing from the reporting if I am wrong about that point.
the Knicks have well enough for Lebron's max
they have about 1.3 million left over if Lebron gets his maximum deal. So yea, you’re wrong.
KEEP LEE!!!
Why the nasty tone, and yes, I would like please to see the math
I don’t understand why the nasty tone, I want what’s best for the Knicks the same as you or any other fan. I just think Amare is a moody, unreliable, and injury prone, and to give him 5 guaranteed years is a big gamble.
On the max contract part, I repeat, every report I read earlier about this deal mentioned that Amare would agree to a little less to make 2 max contracts possible, so don’t get angry with me.
What is the math? How much does he get the first year? If it’s more that 17 mil, then there’s a problem.
Instead of arguing with me, blame the sportswriters. All articles about this deal should have these details in the reporting. How much is the first year, the second, etc. How much is left for other players (not only max contracts)?
LOL!
I ain’t angry bub, I’m simply stating you’re 100% wrong on this.
The Knicks have enough for 2 max contracts. Amare’s max this year is about 17, Lebron’s is less then that at about 16.4.
The Knicks have like 35mill in cap room, so they not only have enough to lure 2 maxes in Amare and Lebron..with absolutely no problem whatsoever.
KEEP LEE!!!
Amare's Max is 17.2 Lebrons would be 16.6
That would be 33.8 and we have approximately 35 mil under the cap. Yes Amare has agreed that if for some reason the cap number that comes out is not the 56.1 million orignally announced by the league but say 54 mil. Then Ama’re did agree to take 15.7 as his base, which would reduce his total contract from 100 mil to 92 million. For record Lebron Also agreed that if the cap number came out lower to take 15.7.
by Robert Currence on Jul 6, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
we do have another max contract to offer
we just can’t offer another max and use Lee in a sign and trade due to his cap hold, it has to be one or the other. That’s why Lee is in Limbo with us until Lebron makes it clear what he’s doing.
What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!
by Lord Smackington on Jul 6, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Check your math pal
We have enough for another max contract, that is why we are still waiting for Akron boy and Wade to make up their minds. And with a little maneuvering we will even have enough for a max deal next season. And Amare is much better than Lee and this can be proved. Stoudemire, scores his points Primarily in the paint. Lee scores primarily on the perimiter. We have other guys who can shoot on the perimter like Gallo for instance. Having a guy who can cause opposing defenses to collapse in the Lane, Makes a guy Like Gallo better because he and all our other permiter guys will get more open looks which will result in higher scoring efficiency. Forget his individual stats which if you buy the Nash theory, could go down, but would be offset by weaker competition in the east. His presence on the floor will create opportunities for others and thus make others better. It is kind of like when the Patriots acquired Randy Moss, there wer all sorts of questions about what he still had left in the tank, however he still had enough respect around the league that teams doubled him or shaded their coverage to him and as a result Wes Welker had a monster year because he saw single coverage all season. The leage respects Ama’re even if you do not. Also his defensive numbers should improve because he is not guarding Duncan, Dirk, Gasol etc. every night.
by Robert Currence on Jul 6, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No, Lee scores in the paint.
66% of his field goals were within 10 feet, 57% were at the rim. Defenses still collapse on him.
by gian casimiro on Jul 6, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
same as above reply
According to all reports I have read the past few days, they originally agreed to this deal with the understanding that if Lebron would agree to come, he would have to take less. Now this deal is being reported as a done deal, with no mention of an out for the Knicks for a lower sum. Something’s missing from the reporting if I am wrong about that point.
Lebron would only take less
in the situation taht the Knicks wanted to sign 3 of these elite players.
Now that Amare’s looking on board for the 17.2 mill, Lebron can sign his max which is about 16.4 I think…and the Knicks have some cap room left over.
Lebron doesn’t have to take a penny less…at least a penny less for a non-Cleveland team that can give him the max.
KEEP LEE!!!
Fair enough
If those are the numbers, fine, but if I find time, I will try to find those earlier articles that specifically mentioned Amare would have to take a little less if we also get Lebron. I took those articles on their word, I did not start an investigation.
therin lies a big issue, man
What are the SOURCES named in the articles? Much of the talk on this site has been about nearly every sportswriter attributing their “facts” to “anonymous sources”. Thats essentially a pass for “I can make shit up and no one will ever know”. So to take all of these stories at their word is naive on your part. Sorry if that sounds too direct, but there is a ton of bullshit to sift through to find the truth. And the truth is that 98% of these beat writers/sportswriters/whateverwriters are going on speculation and what sounds like a good idea to them.
Its like repeating the rumor that Amare Stoudemire is injury prone. Well, lets look at that. His kneecap fractured in 2005. Cost him the entire year. He came back the next season and played ALL 82 games. Next season he was nearly as durable with 79. The following year he suffered a detached retina towards the end of the season. Now, nearly all accounts of this agree that a “detached retina” is a freak injury. By no means is it even remotely common.
Therefore, holding that particular injury against Amare is similar to calling a baseball player injury prone after his arm is bitten by a shark.
However, when you look at career stats and see 3 GPs in 2005 and 53 GP in 2008, it looks bad. But then again last year he was all 82 again.
Also, with the rumor that Nash made Amar’e… well, his rookie year he won ROY (13.5ppg, 8.8rpg) and his following year he increased his average to 20.6ppg/9.0. Nash joins and bumps Amar’es avg up to 26.0, and then routinely around 21/22ppg since.
Just gotta sift through the crap, man. Check out Bright Side of the Sun and see how they value Amar’e. Those guys are well connected and well informed and will tell you straight out that Amare is a good dude and has matured significantly.
"you're the Rod Thorn in my Chris Bosh side."
by Chris Child's Fist on Jul 6, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
NO friend, you are misguided and I know where you have gotten you information.
Broussard and Steven A. Smith, both claim that Lebron was asked by the Knicks that if the cap number came out less than 56.1 million and was say 54 mil. Would he take 15.7. Stoudemire also agreed to take 15.7 if the cap number came out lower on the 8th. And that was reported on Sunday in the NY Post of all places.
by Robert Currence on Jul 6, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
thanks, but actually Amar'e established himself before Nash joined the Suns
Nash came in Amar’e’s 3rd year… and he was already a 20ppg scoring machine.
Next blind assumption please…
"you're the Rod Thorn in my Chris Bosh side."
by Chris Child's Fist on Jul 6, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Amare's DEFENSE???
I am happy for Amare….He will not get the same numbers as he got in Phoenix. Why? Cause the bench and starters for phoenix are simply better than what New york currently has. Who on this team is going to feed Amare the ball like Steve Nash did? Exactly NOBODY. The knicks will never win with the team they have now. And yes they better fill these holes up fast cause LeBron and Wade are not waiting….they know where they are going. Anyways, Amare plays no Defense….cannot rebound, seriously look at the playoffs…here you have a 6’9 power forward who cannot rebound. Amare gets hurt….it’s all over for the knicks. Big Apple just got bent over. You watch….OH, and phoenix will be better this year without him. They just picked up two real power forwards from the draft that specialize in REBOUNDING. Good luck Knicks, Good luck Amare. Teach him how to play defense (OOOPPPS ) wrong coach for that.
is like hate on ny year cause damn i smell fear :)
by J3TSFANFORLYF3 on Jul 6, 2010 2:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Great opinions, but let me spew a little blasphemy for a second.
In the 2003-04 season Stoudemire averaged 20.6 pts per game. He did that with out a perimeter jump shot which he has now and without Steve Nash. Steve Nash his previous 4 seasons in Dallas averaged 7.8 assists a game. When he came to PHX and hooked up with Ama’re those numbers went up to an Average of 11.2 assists a game. In other words Stoudemire was already a 20 pt. a game scorer before Nash. Nash was not an elite Assist man (in that he had never averaged double figure assists) until he hooked up with Amare in PHX. Now it should be noted that during those Dallas years Nash was playing with Dirk. the record shows that Amare’ and D’Antoni’s system made Nash Better not the other way around. Blasphemous I know, the conventional wisdom was that Nash made D’Antoni and he made Ama’re, however it is simply not proven in the record.
by Robert Currence on Jul 6, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
lol look at this Amare rookie pic I found
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
TURRIBLE!
Amar'e
is what the Knicks needed if they have any hopes of enticing LeBron to come. He gives you solid offense and, when he wants to be, is a solid rebounder. Now is the time for the Knicks to make their offer and if the King doesn’t go to my Mavs (unlikely) or the Clippers (possible), it would be fun seeing him in New York. Could somebody else besides the Lakers, Spurs and Bulls win a championship PLEASE!
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Jul 6, 2010 3:02 AM EDT reply actions
Nice analysis, but...
… this Knicks team probably won’t make the playoffs unless it acquires at least one more All-Star-caliber player. Also, I rate STAT at about a 50% career-ending injury risk for any given year. If that happens anytime in the next couple of years, the Knicks might as well pack it in until the free agent Summer of 2020.
50% not bad
if you don’t play your chance is 0. if you play you either get hurt or don’t get hurt. 50%.
twitter.com/aighttho
http://aightthen.tumblr.com/
why?
he played 82 games after coming back from that surgery and hasn’t had knee problems in the four years since.
oh he got poked in the eye and had to miss some games? i could poke you in the eye real hard and see how you like it?
seriously there’s knocks on amare but i really don’t buy this injury prone bullshit.
Every player in the league is at 50% risk of career ending injury every time they step on the floor
So your comment is nonsense.
by Robert Currence on Jul 6, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Perfect C for the Knicks is...
I have only one name for you guys:
Marcin Gortat (yeah, I know I’m Polish, but…)
With Amare at the 4 there is plenty of offense for the front court. The Hammer would address rebounding woes and he has some pretty awesome 1-on-1 defense.
He runs the floor very well and can shoot a mid-range jumper (only noone let him in the orlando system). He won’t come cheap, but I think he would be the a great starting 5 addition complementing Amare.
And cap-wise – he would still allow the knicks to acquire a decent free agent for the 1-2 position.
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Jul 6, 2010 8:03 AM EDT reply actions
Who's
that Polish kicker for the Steelers? Isn’t his name Piotr as well?
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Jul 6, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
And stop with the King Crab drama...
This guy is not the only solution. I would rather get a great PG than a game dominator – he totally disrupts any system he is in… Better make a run for Billups or Paul… Not sure if it works but getting Billups for Lee + 1 in a sign and trade would work big time…
Billups/Walker
Chandler/Giddens
Gallinari/Harrington
Amare/Barron
Gortat
That’s a top 5 east team in my book…
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Jul 6, 2010 8:10 AM EDT reply actions
Crap... f'd up the depth chart...
Billups/Duhon
Giddens?/T-Mac
Gallinari/Walker
Amare/Harrington
Gortat/Barron
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Jul 6, 2010 8:18 AM EDT up reply actions
We don't have Duhon...
Or Giddens, or TMac, or Harrington (thank god), or Barron (though most of us want him back). Walker would also start at the 2 over Giddens, even if we did have J.R.
yea you f'd up the depth chart
when you put duhon in it.
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What
about Eddie House? He’s not coming back?
Brad James
by the new Bradfather on Jul 6, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I thought you were going to edit Harringtons name, no?
What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!
by Lord Smackington on Jul 6, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Chauncey's kinda old tho...
and The Crab well…sorry to say it, but dude most likely becomes the PG in Pringles system.
He disrupted the “system” in CLE cuz his coach was incompetent with the offensive schemes.
KEEP LEE!!!
True, but the "building for the future" project didn't quite work out the last decade...
He still has 2-3 great seasons in him.
He can drive to the basket and we need that with Gallinari being basically a spot-up jump shooter…
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Jul 6, 2010 8:42 AM EDT reply actions
I wish "building for the future"
was what the Knicks did this past decade, but it really was more towards the opposite.
Chauncey’s still very good…but getting him would probably look more like an Isiah type trade: getting a quick fix to try and get into the playoffs for an aging player.
Gortat seems like a white, better, Jerome James as well.
KEEP LEE!!!
Dude
Gortat is light-years from Jerome James. He’s a good player.
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jul 6, 2010 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
well sorry if I have trouble wanting another bench players who scores 3ppg
and gets 3 boards a game.
I know what his per 36 translates to, but he ain’t gonna be guarding backups if he’s starting.
I said Gortat is better…but the situation, i.e. translating a backup to big starters minutes…not so sure.
I wouldn’t be opposed to Gortat tho.
KEEP LEE!!!
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 6, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Gortat could be a decent Center especially from a rebounding
and defensive stand point, but doesn’t get appreciated because of the lack of daylight he gets behind Dwight Howard.
by Robert Currence on Jul 6, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Marcin Gortat is a disruptive force
We need that. Who cares how many points he scores, but I’m sure he’ll get plenty of put backs. What is good about him is he will just need to focus on being an enforcer in the paint allowing the other guys a little wiggle room with their “suspect” defense. I’m surprised, tho I can see why with Orlando being able to match, Marcin stayed in Orlando to be a backup in July 09. Whether it could be helped or not, I thought it was a waste of good potential being bankrolled behind Dwight who doesn’t miss many games. I’d like the dude, he’s got a chip and is tough.
couldn't be helped
he gave a huge interview in poland in which he said not going to dallas to be a starter was the biggest dissapointment in his career so far.
and still he played hard for orlando this year…
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Jul 7, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
He's a top 10 Center
I’d want him instead of Dalembert, for instance. He also has a much better contract.
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jul 6, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Not really... I mean JJ is a diss for Gortat...
He proved he can be a steady, durable C – with a production around 14/10/2 a game. At his price – I wouldn’t know where to look for a better deal. He has great work ethic and is starving for minutes.
And he is butt-ugly which is always a nice feature in a center. ;)
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Jul 6, 2010 9:09 AM EDT reply actions
He can be as ugly as he wanna be
As long as he’s making opposing offenses drives to the basket look ugly.
haslem's a better fit i think
he defends well and he can hit the jumpers to space for amare and then translate hustle in to something and will let amar’e roam the defensive end to just block shots
Haslem?
Or you on crack? he would be another PF playing out of position.
Another offensively challanged player with mediocre defense.
Another jump shooting big men with no post moves…
We need a C-E-N-T-E-R !!!!
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Jul 8, 2010 6:15 AM EDT reply actions
Also...
Amare is the guy who needs space AWAY from the basket not on the low post.
He hits mid-range jumpers consistently and has a better chance of penetrating from furtherr away because his first step is way quicker than most PF’s.
So Haslem is providing LESS space for amare than Gortat. Gortat couldn’t play alongside D-12 in Orlando because he couldn’t hit the mid-range J and Howard could ONLY play in the low post – no threat outside of 10 feet fropm the basket.
Again – Gortat is a perfect fit for Amare and the Knicks – and at his position he probably has the best contract out there…
Feed the cutter!!!
by Piotr Szczesniak on Jul 8, 2010 6:19 AM EDT up reply actions
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