One aspect of Amar'e Stoudemire's game that should improve without Steve Nash.
One day after Independence Day, Amar'e Stoudemire signed a massive contract with the New York Knicks. Since that fateful day, and largely since everyone started to pay attention to him, Amar'e Stoudemire has been sold short. The reason is a talented Canadian man who has been throwing basketballs to Stoudemire from every possible angle and allowing him excellent opportunities to score. For this reason, the quintessential argument for all Amar'e Stoudemire (and now, Knicks) detractors has been that he will be nothing without Steve Nash. Despite the fact that Stoudemire was an excellent player, albeit a more athletic one, before he shook hands with and did the dance with Nash, pause, every media outlet and sour-grapes basketball fan has grasped desperately to the impossible-to-prove-or-disprove notion that Amar'e Stoudemire will be incapable of scoring without receiving magical passes from the best passer in the NBA. Raymond Felton, as every sports-writer of all time has grown fond of reminding Knicks fans, is no Nash, and consequently he will not be able to provide the easy opportunities for the new power forward to score an efficient 20-25 points per game.
Well, I admit I have no idea what to expect from Stoudemire's box scores, as there is no legitimate way to predict how he will mesh with his new point guard, and I admit that Raymond Felton is no Steve Nash in terms of talent as well as basketball IQ. However, one aspect of Stoudemire's game I fully expect to improve based on his new personnel is his defense.
In Chris Ballard's "The Art of a Beautiful Game," there is a chapter focusing on Steve Nash and his meteoric rise from a young soccer-loving Canadian boy to a two-time NBA MVP. In that chapter, it explains how Steve Nash is very good around the basket because he learned his lay-ups jumping off the wrong leg due to ankle issues, which allows him to throw the defense off enough to get himself some buckets. Ballard also covers interviews with various people throughout Nash's career who say he is the best shooter of all time.
Ballard also titles a section within the Nash chapter with a quote from the man who recruited him to Santa Clara, head coach Dick Davey. The section is titled: "I'll offer you a full ride, but I've got to tell you that you're the worst defensive player I've ever seen."
What does this have to do with Amar'e Stoudemire? Well, because Stoudemire is an inside defender who exclusively guards power forwards and centers save for switches, his defensive opportunities come on guarding the post and guarding drives from the outside. The ways to stop a competent driver from scoring are numerous: blocking him from getting to the paint, force him to pick up his dribble, provide defensive help to grab a steal or offensive foul, and lastly to block his shot. Motivation for an offensive player to drive into the lane is often to provide himself with an opportunity to score from much closer to the basket, as well as to collapse the defense. Collapsed defenses cannot properly guard floor-stretchers, allowing dangerous opportunities for opponents with competent shooters.
So you see, in the most direct possible way(s), defense starts at the perimeter. More specifically, defense starts with whoever guards the opponent's primary ball-handler/passer. And, because Steve Nash was that guy in Phoenix, it would be unrealistic to expect Amar'e Stoudemire to thrive defensively in the desert. With Nash allowing quicker guards to beat him off the dribble so badly, it oftentimes forced Stoudemire to make bad, desperate decisions in terms of ball-stopping. For this reason, his defensive potential has been skewed for nearly his whole career.
Let me ask everyone a question: Do you think Shawn Kemp would have been half the defender he was if Gary Payton and Nate McMillan weren't around? Do you think Kevin Garnett, in his mid-30s, could pull off a Defensive Player of the Year award without Rajon Rondo?
Let's line up Stoudemire, Boozer, Lee and Bosh with their respective point guards from last year.
Stoudemire - Nash/Dragic
Boozer - Williams/Brewer
Lee - Duhon/Douglas
Bosh - Calderon/Jack
So, it would be reasonable to admit the power forward with the best defensive partner was Carlos Boozer by a whole lot.
I would put David Lee's second best, as Duhon sucks terribly on offense but is an intelligent defender, while Toney Douglas has gumption for days.
Third best would probably go to Bosh's help, despite Calderon being a horrible defender. Jarret Jack is a plus defender who actually played far more than Calderon this past year, and he was probably their best defender overall down the stretch.
Coming in last is Stoudemire. Defensively, Steve Nash makes Jose Calderon look like Chris Paul and Goran Dragic is still a green, rookie-esque defender who is far too caught up in offense to give serious consideration to the other end of the floor.
What does this mean?
Well, simply put, it means Stoudemire had the most difficult defensive assignment on most nights because he was going to a duel without a bulletproof vest. His defense may not be world class, but I hypothesize it was due in large part to his buddies Nash and Dragic, who allowed guards to frolic into the paint and create opportunities for themselves and others with ease. Can I back this up with advanced stats and charts? Probably, but I don't know how.
What's the good news?
The good news is the same thing as the bad news: defense begins with the primary on-ball defender. Barring injury, Stoudemire's first defensive stand as a Knick will begin with Raymond Felton guarding Jose Calderon rather than Steve Nash guarding the Raptors' point guard. Felton spent last season as the first line of defense for the stingiest defense in the NBA. At shooting guard, instead of relying on an aging Jason Richardson, Stoudemire will have the luxury of Azubuike, Chandler and a few others. Does this mean he'll be an all-defense candidate? Almost certainly not. However, if you were to ask him whether he'd like his defense evaluated this year or last year, I think I know what he might say.
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Amar'e is sure to average at least 25 and 11 because he is going to be looking to lure players like melo and cp3 to the team.
Also, when people talk about Bosh they don’t talk about the fact that he has even weaker knees, something which consists of a knee brace at all times. Bosh is less durable than STAT.
For every sunset, there will always be a sunrise.
agreed
last four seasons Amare has played 82, 79, 53 and 82 games. obviously i’m cherry picking stats by not including the year he missed, but that’s still pretty durable for a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately league.
by 100% dundee on Aug 15, 2010 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions
GOOD SHIT Osborn!
its funny that people just write off Amar’e as “he’ll stink without Nash”, of course without backing it up.
I agree on the offensive end..we just don’t know. Felton is not Nash, but he’s not a slouch. I don’t think Amare will be affected..cuz if Duhon and Lee can be as good as they were last year, why can’t Felton and Amare be better?
Defensively is where they just write Amare and the Knicks off tho, and that shit is pretty annoying. Like you say, Felton is an excellent defender. The 3 guys we got from Golden State, all are good or have the potential (AR) to be good defenders.
In light of this new shit…I’m well past half mast right now.
very wrong about Dragic
he put more effort into defense than anyone on the team short of Dudly. He is a better defensive player than offensive
by dontTradeAaronNelson! on Aug 15, 2010 8:36 PM EDT reply actions
I don't want to get into an argument over something that can't be proven,
but let’s just say I wholeheartedly disagree.
I scrolled down to join just so I could make this exact comment,
but you already beat me to it!! Goran is certainly not overly caught up in offense. I often feel that he doesn’t give enough attention to it. He is a very good defensive player. Just wanted to defend my man. :)
I can see the point this article is trying to make. Im sure Amar’e will have a very nice season with the Knicks. And yes, perhaps his defense will improve without Steve Nash. Heck, maybe he’ll even be better than he was on the Suns. He is a great player. But, you must never, and i mean never, underestimate the power of “The Steve Nash Effect”. :D
Good stuff, though. I respect you guys.
And, I just have to say, I really, really like the Posting and Toasting picture. It’s cool, haha.
"If the Suns can shock the world
Goran Dragic is the name."
by Dragic_is_Magic on Aug 15, 2010 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks, I appreciate it.
It’ll be interesting to see how Amar’e scores this year without Nash, that’s for sure.
Yeah it will.
I will definitely be paying a lot more attention to the Knicks this year!
"If the Suns can shock the world
Goran Dragic is the name."
by Dragic_is_Magic on Aug 15, 2010 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
The media has suddenly made Stoudemire one of the most underrated players in the NBA
Let’s see what he does this season, eh? I"m expecting 25 and 10. 5th in MVP voting.
Honestly, I, for one, don't care AT ALL what Ama're's (wow) numbers look like
as long as we are team with a winning record. none of this 37-38 wins shit. ABOVE .500. Playoffs.
Ama’re can go for 8ppg, 4 rebs for all I care.
"you're the Rod Thorn in my Chris Bosh side."
by Chris Child's Fist on Aug 16, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm thinking like 21 and 9 for Amar'e this year
We have alot of guys who are going to average 13-18ppg so I think his numbers will drop a bit. Plus, it will be tougher for him without Nash but Felton will do just fine.
But this post is about his defense which I think will improve not only with Felton at the top, but guys like Chandler on the wing and AR or Turiaf to have his back on the weakside. I think AR will average almost 2.5 blocks per game this season
Can you imagine
if D’Antoni continues to be non-traditional and defend opposing point guards with Anthony Randolph while playing Turiaf and Stoudemire up front, if only for a few minutes. The probability of getting a block of the chase-down or rotation variety would be through the roof.
Great Post
I listed to Steve Kerr’s podcast with Bill Simmons last week, and he said he fully expects Amar’e to be a big producer for the next 1-2 years. I’m not as concerned with the amount of his yearly salary, as the term of the contract. We are locked in a longer-term contract with a player that is injury prone.
Now, if he stays healthy and we surround him with CP3 and Melo…I expect his numbers to change drastically. It might be a quieter first season.
osborn ontarget
good perspective.
another one of the many exciting things we look f/w to this year.
i certainly feel that amar’e is committed to defending; that also helps.
let’s hope his leadership on both ends is contagious.
plus, we appear to have at leat 5 solid 2/3 defenders.
felton, douglas, azubuike, chandler, and fields.
will that be enough in the rotation.
and i’m telling you.
i saw a little bit of landry fields in the dennis johnson hof highlights.
heady, quiet, efficient, fundamentally sound, versatile.
anyone else feel the same vibe?
Amare will succeed in NYC
Sometimes a move is what it takes for a player to transition into his ultimate role. There are many reasons why Amare will be better for the Knicks than he was in Phoenix. Here are three big ones -
1. Nash was definitely a defensive anchor that weighed down not just Amare, but the whole Suns team. For everything that Nash did well on the offensive side of the ball, his porous defense may very well be the reason that he never reached the NBA finals. Amare learned to adjust to Nash’s lack of speed on defense, because in his early years foul trouble was the norm while trying to rotate on help. Between not playing college ball, playing out of position, and covering for Nash it was always an uphill battle in Phoenix for Amare.
2. Critics say that Amare won’t score as much without Nash spoon feeding him easy baskets. The exact opposite argument can be made, though. Nash does make players better, but Nash likes to spread the ball around. This means that players like Channing Frye get a chance to succeed by taking shot attempts away from players like Amare Stoudemire in a Steve Nash system. While many role players like Tim Thomas have excelled in the Nash system, star players seem to be held back. Here are examples A and B.
A. Dirk Nowitzki 2003-04 with Nash
21.8 ppg 17 shots/game 5.5 fta/game 46.2% field goals
Dirk Nowitzki 2004-05 without Nash
26.1 ppg 18.5 shots/game 9.1 fta/game 45.9% field goals
B. Joe Johnson 2004-05 with Nash
17.1 ppg 14.4 shots/game 2.2 fta/game 46.1% field goals
Joe Johnson 2005-06 without Nash
20.2 ppg 17.0 shots/game 4.0 fta/game 45.3% field goals
So both of the two best players that have ever separated from Nash had better offensive numbers after leaving him. Johnson and Nowitzki increased in scoring, field goal attempts, free throw attempts, with only a very minor drop in field goal percentage. Nowitzki also won an MVP without Nash, and Joe Johnson has had multiple All-Star appearances. If Amare follows the path of these two, it would make sense that Amare will probably average at least 26 point per game next year. I have a feeling he will get more than 15.4 shots per game (his average last year) with the Knicks. *Note that Shawn Marion did not experience the same success post-Nash, but the Matrix couldn’t create his own offense.
3. This will finally be Amare’s team. As long as he was in Phoenix and Nash was still breathing, it was always going to be Nash’s team. Most of the fans in Phoenix still felt that Nash was the best player on the Suns last year even after Amare was widely considered one of the top 5 players in the league for the second half of the season. Nash was the golden child and Amare took teh brunt of the blame when the team didn’t achieve up to people’s expectations. Now Amare can finally prove his critics wrong and put an end to the bs that he was a product of Steve Nash. Look for Amare to be a monster this year and be the leader of the resurgent Knicks once reinforcements such as Carmelo arrive. Amare has great character and work ethic. The fact that a player could come from his background and mature, stay out of trouble, and overcome the obstacles he has is a testament to the type of person he is.
As a Phoenix Suns fan I am sorely disappointed to lose such an exceptional player and person. Nash was asked last year who the best player he ever played with was. His answer, with no hesitation, was Amare Stoudemire.
by Jim Coughenour on Aug 17, 2010 2:47 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Not a bad analysis man. Thanks for your input.
I think Amare’s maturity will come out this year. He seems like he’s finally grown up after being given millions of dollars at age 18.
Anyone remember how long it took Kobe?
Jury's still out on Felton
Hate to burst everyone’s bubble, but the last time we saw Felton, he was getting abused by Jameer Nelson in the playoffs. I’m not sure how everyone has already forgotten this. I’m not saying he’s always that bad, but Jameer literally did whatever he wanted to Felton, and to a lesser extent Augustine. Felton could not stay in front of him.
So I’m not so sure I’d be ready to sign my name off on Felton being a good defender.
But yet and still, anyone, and I do mean anyone, would be an upgrade from Nash. His college coach was right: he’s the single worst perimeter defender I’ve ever seen.
And although I understand the points about Amare having to cover for Sieve Nash on a nearly play-by-play basis, Stoudemire has also never been known as a particularly good one-on-one defender either. Even in the days when Phoenix was able to cover for Nash with Shawn Marion and Joe Johnson/Raja Bell.
I'm a Suns fan, and an Amare fan by extension
That was all basically right, but one little thing to fix/know:
Dragic is actually a very good on-ball defender, who also fights through screens. He is 6’4", big for a PG, and longer than that as well. The only real criticism of his defense is that he’s sometimes overly aggressive and picks up fouls for running into the screener, or forgetting that he can’t handcheck in the NBA like he does in Europe.

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