What If : June 26, 2002
by MikeTheIntern on Aug 25, 2010 4:35 AM EDT
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The NBA and sports in general all run on decisions. Decisions that can move your franchise steps forward or even huge steps backwards. With every decision comes a gamble, with every gamble comes a consequence and with every consequence comes an outcome. The gamble is the risk, will we take steps forward or steps backwards? The answer becomes the consequence, it could have a good or bad affect depending on different factors. The outcome is where everything has been put out in the open, you know what your decision has led to and it's time to ask yourself the question... Do I have any regrets?
The Decision
On June 26, 2002 the New York Knicks made a decision to trade Marcus Camby, Mark Jackson and the draft rights to Nene Hilario, the seventh overall pick of the 2002 NBA draft to the Denver Nuggets for Antonio McDyess, the draft rights to Frank Williams, the 25th overall pick in the 2002 NBA Draft, and a 2003 second-round draft choice.
"Antonio McDyess is the kind of talent that improves our team immediately by adding size, strength and versatility," Layden said. "While we would like to thank Marcus Camby and Mark Jackson for all of their hard work over the years in a Knicks uniform, we felt this trade was not something we could pass up."
The Gamble
Trading a young Marcus Camby who averaged 10.2PPG and 8.9RPG in 197 games with us and was only getting better, veteran PG Mark Jackson, the franchise’s second all-time leading assist-maker with 4,791 (fourth in NBA history with 9,840) and the draft rights to an unproven rookie in Nene Hilario. In return we received NBA All-Star Antonio Mcdyess who was coming off ten games the previous season due to surgery to repair the patella tendon in his left knee. Before his knee injury he averaged 20.8 points and 12.1 rebounds in 70 games during the 00-01 season. We also received the draft rights to unproven rookie Frank Williams.
"In McDyess, we have a seasoned veteran and NBA All-Star," Head Coach Don Chaney said. "He has the ability to score and rebound. It gives us a player that we can go to in the post and demand double-teams from opponents."
[Layden on McDyess' surgery on left knee]
''Antonio is a hard worker and he's passionate about playing and he'll work and he'll be back.''
The Consequence
With 1 minute 55 seconds left in an exhibition preseason game against the Suns, Mcdyess fractures his knee on a put back dunk sidelining him indefinitely. He later continues his play but re-aggravates the injury, finishing his career with the Knicks in only 18 games. Frank Williams amounts to absolutely nothing and retires after 3 years in the NBA. Marcus Camby continues his solid 10 and 10 role while developing into an even more dominant shot blocker. Nene later becomes one of the best big men in the game. He is not All-Star material but paired with the right pieces he can be pretty devious. As for Mark Jackson... Well yeah, he works for ESPN...
''This is a devastating blow for Antonio, knowing how hard he has worked up to this point,'' said Scott Layden, the Knicks' president and general manager. ''Knick fans had only seen a glimmer of his superior skills, and knowing Antonio, we are confident he will overcome this setback.''
''He's still saddened and he wants to get back on the floor,'' Chaney said. ''He's totally disappointed and somewhat devastated. But he has great inner strength, and with his determination, he'll be back.''
The Outcome
Regrets? Initially, I am sure many of you hate the Mcdyess deal but for all you Marbury fans slow down on the hate. After Mcdyess' bust season in New York we shipped him away with Charlie Ward and Howard Eisley for Anfernee Hardaway, Cezary Trybanski and of course Stephon Marbury. With Marbury came excitement, head tattoos and kicks sold for only 15 bucks!
"I think we got the best deal," Knicks center Dikembe Mutombo said. "He's among the best point guards in the league, he's an All-Star player."
The "What If"
So What If we never traded for Mcdyess? Is Camby and/or Nene still a part of the Knicks? Do we have one of those guys paired next to Amare Stoudemire? Do we trade both before this offseason was ever near for a All-Star caliber big? Eliminating the need for Amare and pass on him this offseason? What if Mcdyess stayed healthy? Do we ever see Marbury in blue and orange? Does Mcdyess ever gets traded? Does Isiah wreck the team even worst then he did before? These are all questions that cannot be answered and it goes to show that every decision brings consequences that can lasts for years. So regarding the event that took place on June 26, 2002 ask yourself, What If?
"What if you never knew things that you needed to know?
What if you never been places you needed to go?
What if you get there, and learned them as you go?
"What if" is the question, can I ask then once more?"Jadakiss "What If"
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The lesson
1. Do not trade lottery picks (Bulls’ Rose could have been our baby…)
2. Make sure the stars that we trade for have the right mentality, maturality, and personality.
3. Trade for super stars only when they are still young enough (or strong enough).
4. Protecting salary cap is extremely important. That’s how you can get precious players without costing yours. Trading is costly, especially you have the wrong guy in wrong position.
Rose seriously?
ugh please dont mention that………Rose a Knick would of been ILL!
jesus stop trading draft picks guys wtf
Rose would not have been ours
we had our pick that year. #6, it was Gallo.
We lost Noah and Aldridge for Curry.
I am a fan of both the mets and knicks... so just kill me now.
We came out about even
in terms of total pounds
1. With all due respect, Drose could NOT have been our baby. We WERE in the lottery that year and Stern rigged it for Dantoni to sit there with his thumb up his ass cuz Stern hates MD’A. 2010 lottery was one of the years IT traded an UNPROTECTED first round pick for Curry, which wound up in Utah’s hands.
This is why I hate Layden more then IT
Layden started this shit. IT didn’t know how to “clean it up”, so he tried to mold it instead.
Donnie finally got the septic truck and drained MSG
Actually
Dolan takes a lot of the rap for this one. Part of the reason Camby was traded was because Dolan, Sprewell and he got in some sort of altercation…they walked out of some bullshit meeting or something. So Dolan demanded Camby was traded. Thus…
its hard to blame anyone in this except...
Marbury.
He was considered one of the most talented players in the NBA but he straight up didn’t have the work ethic and desire to win that NBA superstars have like (Kobe, KG, Duncan, etc.). The Knicks FO couldn’t have predicted that because when he was young it looked like he was having fun on the court. As he got older he looked like a miserable human being.
They tried, it just didn’t work out for them. At all.
you could throw some blame layden's way
For trading quality young big men and a solid PG for someone coming off a debilitating injury.
Exactly.
Mcdyess played 10 games the previous season and we put all our faith in him. Hence the gamble.
I believe Azubuike suffered the same injury Mcdyess did in Denver but with Kelenna the situation is different. We only parted with D-Lee and got three pieces so the gamble is not as high.
But I definitely agree with throwing some blame at Layden.
"You're like that old, beat down restaurant with the dirty bathrooms, weird customers and foul odor, I'm like that new shiny restaurant across the street with the bright neon lights, fishes in the floor and 2nd floor gymnasium. Why don't I have any customers?!"
by MikeTheIntern on Aug 25, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
This is what I'm talkin about Mike
Great post, rec’d. But now what do I do until 6, work? Fiiiiiiiine.
Yeah but what if McDyess never got injured.
I don’t know if you guys are old enough to remember him playing in Denver, but the guy was an animal ( in a good way). Maybe with an all-star caliber forward, Layden would not have made the dumb panicky moves he made which led to excessively dumb panicky moves by Isiah. We really should be asking what if McDyess stayed healthy.
They will be for!
by StarksMiddleFinger on Aug 25, 2010 9:50 AM EDT reply actions
If he had stayed healthy he'd have never been a Knick in the first place
If McDyess hadn’t already been injured, could we have even pulled off that trade? He was definitely beasting in Denver back in the day and his value in his prime I think was greater than Camby, over-the-hill Mark Jackson and a rookie. It would be like if we had traded for Amar’e right after he blew out his knees when his value was low, without having any evidence as to whether he would recover and be great again (obviously Amar’e bounced back better than McDyess, but these things you can only know it hindsight).
But at the time I was definitely psyched that we got McDyess. And then I was sad that he couldn’t hack it in New York. And then I was psyched that we managed to trade him for Steph. And then I was sad that Steph couldn’t hack it in New York…. and so the cycle continues.
I think he meant
What if he never got injured while playing with us. In Mcdyess’ defense the injury he had in Denver and the injury suffered here were completely different. He tore a tendon in his left knee in Denver a fractured a knee with us.
So if he would have never fractured his knee here and played to his expectations… What then?
"You're like that old, beat down restaurant with the dirty bathrooms, weird customers and foul odor, I'm like that new shiny restaurant across the street with the bright neon lights, fishes in the floor and 2nd floor gymnasium. Why don't I have any customers?!"
by MikeTheIntern on Aug 25, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Good question.
I’ll add that in the what if section.
"You're like that old, beat down restaurant with the dirty bathrooms, weird customers and foul odor, I'm like that new shiny restaurant across the street with the bright neon lights, fishes in the floor and 2nd floor gymnasium. Why don't I have any customers?!"
by MikeTheIntern on Aug 25, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I liked this trade at the time
Even though Marcus Camby and Mark Jackson are my two favorite Knicks ever. Why?
1. Camby, at the time, could not play 20 games in a row without getting hurt. It was extremely frustrating. He wasn’t all that young anymore and it seemed like as he got older, his durability would get worse.
2. McDyess was one of the best big men in the game. He was at the level Amar’e is now. Maybe a little bit less of a scorer but a terrific rebounder.
3. I thought it was smart to trade the rights to Nene at the time because I didn’t think it was very likely Nene would turn out to be a better player than McDyess.
4. Jackson wasn’t getting any younger, and he wasn’t the future, so I thought getting back a guy that might have a shot to be good in Frank Williams was a better plan.
Now, as it turned out, McDyess got hurt and though he returned eventually to be a good player, the Knicks got rid of him before he could do that. Camby, to my utter surprise, developed durability. Nene turned out to be a quality big man and Frank Williams didn’t turn out to be much.
But still, if McDyess hadn’t gotten hurt, it would have been a decent trade. Really poor luck. I forgot how that led to Marbury. Ouch.
jesus I hated that trade
aside from being a Camby fan any player from Brazil I thought we pretty cool and changed it to one name Nene
really wish we had Nene and Amare right now…………
Me to.
"You're like that old, beat down restaurant with the dirty bathrooms, weird customers and foul odor, I'm like that new shiny restaurant across the street with the bright neon lights, fishes in the floor and 2nd floor gymnasium. Why don't I have any customers?!"
by MikeTheIntern on Aug 25, 2010 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions
i am with you
that was one of those real head scratcher trades.
Camby for McD straight up would have been questionable… the fact that we had to throw in nene was just… ugh.
I am a fan of both the mets and knicks... so just kill me now.
Knicks have a history of bad luck with "saviors"
Does anyone else remember Bernard King? He was a legit superstar that the Knicks got (free agent?) and he blew his knee out.
I remember that the thinking in the years before was that as long as they had Ewing, they were a playoff team, and that they felt they should put the best team around him THAT year, and not worry as much about the future.
In a way, I can’t disagree with that. BUT – once Ewing was gone, instead of rebuilding with youth, the Knicks continued to go for the quick fix, putting themselves deeper and deeper in the hole each year
King actually became a huge star with the Knicks
He was thought of as a good, not great player before he got to the Knicks. I vaguely remember his awesomeness taking people by surprise.
Given that Nene turned out good and Amar’e turned out great and Camby suddenly became durable, it was a questionable trade even if McDyess stayed healthy and at the top of his game. The McDyess trade was similar to the Melo trades people are proposing – you give up a lot and take a chance but you get the best player in the deal.
It’s kind of like if the Knicks traded Chandler and Randolph and Curry and a first rounder for Carmelo. It’s the kind of deal that could put a team over the top. But imagine Carmelo being hurt in the second preseason game and never returning to form.
It was really really shitty luck.
by fuhry on Aug 26, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
"You're like that old, beat down restaurant with the dirty bathrooms, weird customers and foul odor, I'm like that new shiny restaurant across the street with the bright neon lights, fishes in the floor and 2nd floor gymnasium. Why don't I have any customers?!"
by MikeTheIntern on Aug 26, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
King
Was 7th pick overall from the Nets. He had 2 really good years with the nets, a bad year with Utah, good years with Golden State before coming to the Knicks
It looks like he had a couple of good years with the Knicks before the big injury.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kingbe01.html so I was wrong about that. I remembered it being much less time
But a lot was expected when he came over, It was definitely headline news
Anybody else concerned now about Azubuike?
He just came off of a season-ending surgery on his knee after only 6 games last year. And I think it was the same thing McDyess had. The patella tendon or whatever
Yeah it was.
But Mcdyess didn’t re-injure that injury, he fractured his knee with us. I am still worried about Kelenna though.
"You're like that old, beat down restaurant with the dirty bathrooms, weird customers and foul odor, I'm like that new shiny restaurant across the street with the bright neon lights, fishes in the floor and 2nd floor gymnasium. Why don't I have any customers?!"
by MikeTheIntern on Aug 26, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
But
I don’t think that they were planning on building the team around Azubike. They were planning on building the team around McDyess
Yeah I pointed that out in a comment above.
With Kelenna it’s far less riskier. He wasn’t even the big prize in the trade. So yeah, its definitely different.
"You're like that old, beat down restaurant with the dirty bathrooms, weird customers and foul odor, I'm like that new shiny restaurant across the street with the bright neon lights, fishes in the floor and 2nd floor gymnasium. Why don't I have any customers?!"
by MikeTheIntern on Aug 26, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I loke Bookie and would love to have him...
but with Mason Jr, Walker, DWTDD and Chandler all around….I’m not gonna sweat it.
And don’t compare this to McDyess. Not even close to mattering as much.
by FreeBradshaw on Aug 26, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Damn,
having Nene AND Camby would have been great.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
TURRIBLE!
Nene, Camby AND Amare would be even greater!
"You're like that old, beat down restaurant with the dirty bathrooms, weird customers and foul odor, I'm like that new shiny restaurant across the street with the bright neon lights, fishes in the floor and 2nd floor gymnasium. Why don't I have any customers?!"
by MikeTheIntern on Aug 26, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Imagine...
C – Nene, Camby, Turiaf
PF – Stoudemire, Randolph
SF – Danillo, Chandler
SG – Kelenna, Mason
PG – Felton, Douglas
Stacked team.
"I don't lift weights because they are heavy, and I don't run because it makes me tired." - Charles Barkley
TURRIBLE!
Good point Mike
I’d like to add one bit of information:
The Knicks took Nene as part of the deal with Denver. In the week leading up to the draft, Mark Jackson was quoted as saying: “If the Knicks pass on Amare Stoudemire, they’re crazy!”
True story. Think about the possibilities. Camby and Stat together.
Nene and Stat
would of been beast status
seriously
and add a another scorer like Melo or whoever and Miami threesome bring it on
still scratching my head on the Camby Nene trade all these years later
and word Layden actually started the mess……Isiah just perfected it
its like a Sith Lord and his apprentice
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