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The NBA Hockey Assist

 

I've just recently finished a game of NHL 10 and it reminded me of something Basketball players do not receive credit for. In Hockey an assist can involve up to three men unlike Basketball which limits assist to a two man job. Below are a couple of videos that show the difference between a Hockey three man assist and Basketball's two man assist. Statistically, assist in Hockey are way more beneficial to players then Basketball assist are.

Star-divide

Here is a perfect example of a Hockey assist. As you can see here, #2 receives the puck after his teammate wins the face-off. He brings the puck up the ice and passes to #14. #14 pushes up the ice and passes backward to a teammate who gets an easy score. In Basketball, #14 would have been credited with the assist while #2 wouldn't have but in Hockey the rules are different. #2 and #14 will be credited with an assist; since #14 gave the direct pass to the scoring player he gets the primary assist while #2 gets the secondary assist for passing to the primary assister (Not a real word). It's pretty simple isn't it? Both #2 and #14 also get 1 point added to their stats as a result.

Here is a perfect example of a Basketball assist, while also demonstrating a Hockey assist as well. As you can see here, the ball was inbounded to Ben Gordon (Blurry so I'm not 100% sure that's actually him.) who draws a double team on the outside. He then passes in to Joakim Noah who spots a wide open Thabo Sefalosha that goes up for a nice baseline dunk. Noah gets the assist, Thabo gets the points and Gordon is nonexistent statistically on this play, although without him the play would have never happened. Watch the play, once Gordon touches the ball his man (Chauncey Billups) and Noah's man (Antonio McDyess) double him. After Gordon passes to Noah, Thabo's man (Unrecognizable) slides over to cover Noah, leaving Thabo wide open. Noah see's this, gets the ball to Thabo who hammers one on McDyess. Without Gordon demanding the double team this play would not exist. He is the unsung hero here and deserves a secondary assist.

I think we all can agree that Ben Gordon made that play happen and deserves credit for it. It's not just Gordon that has these type of hockey assist either, players at all positions participate in these three man assist. Big men like Dwight Howard for instance. Dwight has perimeter shooters all around him, if he gets the ball in the paint automatic double teaming commences, sometimes even triple. The Magic uses his presence and their three point shooting cohesively. Once Dwight draws the double team he either takes it to the hole or dishes it outside to one of his three point threat teammates. If that player is open he'll take the shot but a lot of times you'll see that the player Dwight passes the ball to can take a good shot but not a completely wide open shot, so instead, that player swings it to the next man who is wide open and nails a long ball. Dwight gets no credit for the play although he created it. Dwight could possibly have the best "SAPG" (Secondary Assist Per Game) average between all Centers. This would lead to the media referring to him as one of the best passing bigs in the league although no one praises his passing abilities now.

Another Hockey assist master is Chris Paul. He gets his Hockey assist in a different manner but it's even more effective then Dwight's method. While Paul lacks the size that Dwight has, he has speed and quickness which gets him these Hockey assist. When he drives to the hoop the entire opposing team will all come rushing to the paint in effort to stop him, once that happens he passes to an open teammate, if he doesn't have a shot someone else will. This method is more effective because the shots being taken have a higher percentage of success. This is what would make him so great with our offense. We have shooters everywhere, mid range, perimeter and inside threats. If Secondary Assist were actually brought to the NBA players like Chris Paul, Rajon Rondo, Raymond Felton, Steve Nash and other pass first Point Guards will seem elite, although they have been racking up these Assist up for years without notice.

So why not add Secondary Assist to the NBA? It only makes players look even better. It doesn't change the rules any, it allows the players to play like they always have and look even better than before with a shiny new stat to have. I see two flags on the argument. 1) Hockey credits the players assist as a point to their stats also. Someone can literally play a game without ever shooting but have 3 goals at the end of the game. That part I would leave out if this were ever implemented in the NBA. Don't credit the players with points for getting assist. 2) This makes it easier for players to get double doubles, triple doubles and etc. It doesn't make it far more easier but getting Secondary Assist are about the same difficulty as getting standard assist so some players may get more double doubles. I wouldn't want it to take away from those achievements. The last thing this league needs is double doubles and triple doubles to become a normal occurrence. Double doubles can slide but if Secondary Assist makes triple doubles go from rare to expected, I'm not for it. I think the NBA should consider adding this stat. There isn't much to lose so why not? That's a very good question, why not?

Poll
Should The NBA Implement Secondary Assist?
Yes
12 votes
No
20 votes
Undecided
0 votes
Do it in the D-League first
9 votes

41 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 27 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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the difference is greater than that

alot of baskets in the nba go unassisted because there is no pass that leads directly to the basket, while in the nhl there is an assist even the pass doesnt lead directly to a goal

If they ever implemented this rule, the directly part of the nba assist would make it extremely difficult to decide whether or not to give a specific play a “hockey assist”

by MHEV35 on Aug 30, 2010 12:18 AM EDT reply actions  

I think we should add secondary assist.
If they ever implemented this rule, the directly part of the nba assist would make it extremely difficult to decide whether or not to give a specific play a "hockey assist"

In plays like the one above with the bulls is when the secondary assist should be distributed. I don’t think it would be extremely difficult at all. There is a ton of plays like the one above. Or like Rondo, he runs under the basket everyone follows he passes to peirce, peirce passes to allen, open three, secondary assist for rondo. its simple. fast breaks, 3 on 1 pg passes to sg, sg throws alley oop to sf, secondary assist for pg. it shouldnt be any more difficult to tell the difference between a secondary assist and a normal assist. if it is a bit more difficult i wouldnt say extremely difficult. we give players credit for hockey assist all the time, why not just make it official?

by 2017MaxCat on Aug 30, 2010 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

This is a good arguement as to why not.

"You're like that old, beat down restaurant with the dirty bathrooms, weird customers and foul odor, I'm like that new shiny restaurant across the street with the bright neon lights, fishes in the floor and 2nd floor gymnasium. Why don't I have any customers?!"

by MikeTheIntern on Aug 30, 2010 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

i voted no

i think the “hockey assist” distorts what happens in an NBA game. in hockey, the secondary assist has a clear impact on the goal scored; this clarity wouldn’t hold true in the NBA. it would be too hard to distinguish a valuable secondary assist from an irrelevant one, making the data worthless.

by latrell chokewell on Aug 30, 2010 2:07 AM EDT reply actions  

This makes more sense for hockey

Because the scoring is so low, so this stat manages to capture the contributions of players who helped the team score but who might not otherwise have anything to show for their efforts in the box score, I guess.

But in the NBA I don’t see the point. What would it tell you except that a player was on the floor for a much of the game and didn’t completely disappear from the offense?

by flossy on Aug 30, 2010 7:41 AM EDT reply actions  

I sometimes jump the gun

so I chose yes immediately but it probably make more sense to see how it flies in the D league first…The NBA is where amazing happens…The D League, where experimentation happens.

“Lets switch the material on our jerseys to fiberglass, it’s lightweight and more durable!”

“Is that safe?” thinks for a moment

“I don’t know give it to those D League guys, they won’t mind”

All in all though I don’t think it’s a bad idea, it could make guys more concious of the extra pass and lead to better basketball. Plus those already unselfish guys who don’t really get the credit they deserve would and should get rewarded with a little more recognition.

Plus plus…it’s not another damned metric stat

What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!

by Lord Smackington on Aug 30, 2010 10:59 AM EDT reply actions  

I'm not entirely sure the entire Statistics community would be on board with this.

Morey’s clan down in Houston already tracks Hockey Assists, as do a couple of other front offices. I don’t know how happy they’d be to see it appear on basketball cards for “geniuses” like David Kahn to misconstrue.

Also, if you take some time to learn official scoring within a game, you can tell who gets involved in plays and to what extent.

For example:
3 NYK 23RD/ 8D 21 5++z

That is an example of an official scoring for a possession. Granted, all the shit in italics should not be italicized, but should instead be in either super- or sub-script, depending on what action it indicates. But basically, what that possession entails is that the Knicks got the ball off an opponent’s missed shot, brought the ball up, passed it around and hit an eventual three-pointer.
The “3” stands for the number of points the team has after the eventual possession (so it is reasonable to assume this is the first time they scored).
“NYK” is “New York Knicks.”
“23” is Toney Douglas, whose “R” represents that he is the one who brought down the rebound, the “D” represents he then began to dribble the ball, and the “/” (backslash) represents that he maintained possession as he crossed mid-court.
The next number, “8,” represents Gallinari, who received Douglas’s pass and began dribbling (“D”) himself.

This is where the “hockey assist” comes into play. Because Gallinari (8) passes the ball to Wilson Chandler (“21”), who then passes it to Bill Walker (“5”) for a three pointer (which is represented by “z,” which is the zone on the floor from which he shot and made the shot. “z” so happens to be the right wing), Gallinari is ineligable for an assist on the play because Chandler is the one who passed to Walker. The “+” represent that the shot went in, while the other “+” represents that there should be an assist awarded to the previous possessor of the ball.

What you’re proposing is adding a third “+,” which would make things a whole lot more complicated. What should be the stipulations? Should the player who you propose should get the hockey assist (Gallinari) become ineligible if the player who is awarded the traditional assist (Chandler) dribbles (D)? Should there be a level of “Openness” assessed based on how open the eventual shooter was at the time of the shot? Shouldn’t there then be a stat representing the skill with which a player “gets open?”

Can of worms my friend, but I like the way you’re thinking. Maybe some of this stuff will provide you some more food for thought? Let me know.

by Osborn on Aug 30, 2010 3:52 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

This is deep.

I’d propose they use the same “No more then two dribbles” assist rule. For traditional assist, in order for a player to get the assist, the player he/she passes it to can not dribble the ball more then twice I believe.

So if Gallo passes to Chandler who dribbles twice then passes to Walker who hits a three then Gallo would receive the Hockey assist. If Gallo passes to Chandler who dribbles more then twice then passes to Walker who hits a three then Gallo doesn’t get the Hockey assist.

So even if Chandler dribbles (D) Gallo could still receive the Hockey assist, as long as he didn’t dribble more then twice. With the official scoring metric you showed above, I’m not sure if there is a symbol to show the amount of dribbles a certain player makes in his possession. Most likely not because there is no need for one, because the amount of times the “assister” dribbled doesn’t matter with the assist rules in place now, adding a D is fine on its own. The amount of times the scoring player dribbles matters and if he dribbled more then twice the added “+” (assist) wouldn’t be there, letting you know no assist was granted on the possession. If he dribbled less then twice the D would be there but a “+” would also since an assist was granted. So adding Hockey assist would make it even more difficult because it would bring a need to add a third “+” as well like you mentioned Osborn.

3 NYK 23RD/ 8D 21 5++z (Shows the traditional assist for Chandler)

3 NYK 23RD/ 8D 21 5+++z (Shows that Gallo got a Hockey assist without Chandler or Walker dribbling)

3 NYK 23RD/ 8D 21D 5+++z (Shows that Gallo got a Hockey assist with Chandler dribbling but obviously not more then twice since the third “+” would be Gallo’s Hockey assist)

3 NYK 23RD/ 8D 21D 5++z (Shows Gallo didn’t receive a Hockey assist because Chandler dribbled more then twice, hence the missing third “+”)

Can of worms is right. It’s a confusing subject but not so confusing at the same time.

"Dedication To The Don" Most Popular Post Of All Time On P&T. I Am Honored

by MikeTheIntern on Aug 30, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

But what you're proposing:

Is that a player should be awarded for an assist for something that happens potentially five seconds later. I mean, there’s such a debate already over what is and what is not an assist.

Just the fact that this assist is debatable is evidence enough that Hockey Assists would create even more controversy than official scorers can handle. I’m with you, “hockey assists” are often very valuable and have their worth in being recorded, but I’m of the opinion that, until there is a concrete definition of “assist,” add-ons cannot be possible. Without a solid foundation, a house will fall apart.

by Osborn on Aug 30, 2010 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I see where you're coming from.

You have a great perspective.

Just the fact that this assist is debatable is evidence enough that Hockey Assists would create even more controversy than official scorers can handle. I’m with you, "hockey assists" are often very valuable and have their worth in being recorded, but I’m of the opinion that, until there is a concrete definition of "assist," add-ons cannot be possible. Without a solid foundation, a house will fall apart.

You changed my view on the entire subject, adding hockey assist would complicate things more then I originally imagined. As a fan of basketball, I can spot a player that creates plays without any statistical reward and that’s going to have to be the way it stays. Adding hockey assist would be hectic at times and it wouldn’t really be fair to share my skill scouting talents with everyone. Its so much more to an athletes game then what appears on their stat card.

"Dedication To The Don" Most Popular Post Of All Time On P&T. I Am Honored

by MikeTheIntern on Aug 30, 2010 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah man, I like the way you think.

As does Dean Olliver, John Hollinger and a slew of other stat-heads.
It’s just not in the cards right now.

Now try to figure out some decent defensive metrics, Mike!

by Osborn on Aug 30, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is what I found...

NBAPET came up with a defensive metric called “dMULT” which is an abbreviation for Defensive Multiplier.

What dMULT now attempts is to measure the points created per possession used allowed by a player’s box score counterparts versus their usual production.
Lets say player A has a dMULT average of .883, this means when facing player A your production would be 11.7 percent less then usual. Player B has a dMULT average of 1.105 which makes you 10.5 percent more productive when facing player B. 1.000 is the average for all players, if your dMULT averages under 1.000 your opponents are less productive, average over 1.000 and they’re more productive.
 
NBAPET ranked Danilo Gallinari as the 17th best defensive player according to their dMULT metric. Gallinari has a dMULT average of .873 meaning he causes opponents to be 12.7 less productive.

Ron Artest was ranked 11th with a .858 dMULT

Luol Deng was ranked 6th with a .814 dMULT

and

Dwight Howard was ranked 1st with a .709 dMULT

dMULT can refer to teams as well.

This shows that the Cavaliers had a dMULT of .921 making opponents .79 percent less productive. There also is a bunch of other crazy stats that you can get the definition of Here

Full Article Here for those who haven’t been bored to death with metrics. The only problem is, NBAPET never explains how they come to their dMULT. The math that goes into it is unknown, I’ve looked and came up empty handed. I can’t understand how they determine a player’s or team’s dMULT, I know the basics of it, comparing the box scores and what not but what gets added? What gets subtracted? Multiplied, divided? I can’t find how they do it.

"Dedication To The Don" Most Popular Post Of All Time On P&T. I Am Honored

by MikeTheIntern on Aug 31, 2010 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good Question.

If I knew how to determine a player’s dMULT I’d check Amare’s but I don’t know how to determine it.

"Dedication To The Don" Most Popular Post Of All Time On P&T. I Am Honored

by MikeTheIntern on Aug 31, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

zzzzzzzzzz

What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!

by Lord Smackington on Aug 30, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lol

"Dedication To The Don" Most Popular Post Of All Time On P&T. I Am Honored

by MikeTheIntern on Aug 30, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

If a team whips the ball around without dribbling, resulting in a score, why not give everyone an assist?
And why not 1.5 assists for a 3-point play?

by Clyde1970 on Aug 30, 2010 9:18 PM EDT reply actions  

yea ummm

NHL 10 is the shit

What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!

by Lord Smackington on Aug 30, 2010 9:52 PM EDT reply actions  

btw, don't get hockey "points" confused with goals

In Hockey there are 3 things

Goals (putting the puck in the net)
Assists (including secondary assists, we all know what assists are)
and Points (is simply goals + points)

“Points” basically just allows people to see how many goals players are involved in.

by jlaw on Aug 31, 2010 12:32 AM EDT reply actions  

what i dont understand is why they dont separate primary assists and secondary assists in the nhl..

theres a huge difference, and they shouldnt be awarded equally

LET'S GO RANGERS!!!

by Moshe52792 on Aug 31, 2010 12:39 AM EDT reply actions  

if they seperated them

one might find that the “best first passer in the game” …really is not.

by FreeBradshaw on Aug 31, 2010 7:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think the NBA season really needs to start

New minorleague site coming soon, with contributions from those who were not seen fit for this site

by Mets2k9 on Aug 31, 2010 2:25 AM EDT reply actions  

this.

I am a fan of both the mets and knicks... so just kill me now.

by gbaked on Aug 31, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

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