Steve + Ray = Problem Solved!
Hi all. This is my first post here (I've been reading the site without an account for about a month). I know you're all sick of trade suggestions, as am I, but at least this one doesn't involve 'Melo!
Anywho, down to business. It's safe to say we can agree that the Knicks' two most prominent needs are a backup PG and a big, and if it wasn't abundantly clear before (it was), the Lakers made sure that changed last night. I've been sitting on an idea that I hope is able to solve both of these problems at the same time; it's a bit outside the box, but no one ever complained about that, right? Right?
So what is this genius (or absolutely ridiculous) idea? Follow the jump! Or just look at the title.
A lot of people who don't want the Knicks to trade for Steve Nash think we are much better off with Raymond Felton, and I agree with that sentiment completely. However, what if we were to trade for Nash without giving up Felton and keep them both? Obviously, neither Nash nor Felton want to be a backup PG, and I don't blame them. But there's another option.
Let's start with the business of actually acquiring Steve Nash: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=494wpmx
This trade might seem unbalanced in the Knicks' favor, and I can agree to some degree. On the other hand, besides the fact that every trade is at least somewhat unbalanced (look across the river at the Nets' proposed trade for 'Melo: in my opinion, the Nets are getting fleeced, at least by the Nuggets), this trade is actually good for the Suns in the long run. If you'd like to feel better about the Knicks' size, look no further than the Suns for comfort. This trade effectively turns Steve Nash into Anthony Randolph, who is 15 years younger and would have time to develop his skills with a rebuilding team, and Bill Walker, who makes shots and grabs rebounds sometimes. Also, it turns Robin Lopez, who mostly sits on the bench while taking time off once in a while to anger Timofey Mozgov, into Eddy Curry, who mostly sits in front of the fridge while taking time off once in a while to watch the Knicks play the Suns. (Has anyone else seen him at a single other game this year? I sure haven't.) Think about it: Lopez can scream at Mozzie every single day with the Knicks, and Eddy Curry can watch every single game since he seems to like Phoenix. Win-win.
In all seriousness, though, the trade makes the Suns bigger while also giving them an okay swingman off the bench as well as cap relief with Eddy Curry coming off the books. The Knicks can even throw in a second rounder that the Suns can hope turns into half the man Landry Fields is if need be. Afterwards, the Knicks can even sign Earl Barron as insurance to fill the open roster slot. This trade would effectively take the Knicks out of the running for Carmelo Anthony, but I for one think this trade is better for the team.
As such, the Knicks roster would look like this (assuming they sign Barron):
Guards: Nash, Felton, Fields, DWTDD, Mason, Rautins, Azubuike
Forwards: STAT, Gallo, Wil, Extra E
Centers: Turiaf, Lopez, Mozzie, Barron
Now that the trade's completed, the problem of Nash and Felton both being worthy of starting roles needs to be addressed. In his time here, Felton has proven to be a gritty defender, if nothing else; one who can at least keep up with those bigger than him. Also, he's averaging more than 18 ppg and has the ability to grab a fair amount of rebounds for a guard. Why is this important, you ask? Because Raymond Felton's going to be the Knicks' starting 2-guard.
I know what you're thinking, that Felton is 6-1 and way too small to be a shooting guard, and that's true. But in this scenario, Felton wouldn't be playing shooting guard for more than 15 minutes a game, and his hustle should make up for a lack of size and allow him to at least adequately defend most 2-guards for what amounts to a third of the game. The rest of the time, for about 20 minutes, he'll play point guard while Nash sits. This way, Nash plays between 28 and 30 mpg, giving him ample rest. Felton, meanwhile, plays starter's minutes while getting to learn a bit from Nash and play a solid amount of minutes at the point. By now, Felton is comfortable enough with Amar'e that he would still be able to effectively run the offense when Nash is on the bench even while getting less time there. This also helps the Knicks, because I can safely say that they would have the best point guard rotation in the league in that an All-Star caliber point guard would be on the floor for 48 minutes a game. As a side effect, it allows Toney Douglas to exclusively play shooting guard and Gallo to come off the bench (which I think may eliminate a bit of his inconsistency).
The rotation could look something like this:
(If a smaller lineup is preferred, either Fields or Gallo can start at the 3, with Wil and STAT at the 4 and 5.)
PG: Nash, Felton
SG: Felton, Fields, Douglas
SF: Wil, Gallo, Fields, Extra E
PF: STAT, Gallo
C: Lopez, Turiaf
Extended garbage time only: Mozzie, Mason
Inactive: Azubuike, Rautins, Barron
Obviously, D'Antoni and Walsh would have to convince a few people to make some sacrifices, namely Nash, Felton, Fields, and Gallo. However, I'm fairly confident that in the interest of helping the team, all four guys will be willing to do what is asked. Fields and Gallo leave the starting lineup, but will get good minutes off the bench. Felton backs up at point and has to play a new position, but still gets a lot of minutes. He's a smart guy, so I think he'll adapt to playing shooting guard quickly. Nash takes a bit of a hit in minutes, but is reunited with D'Antoni and Stoudemire. All of them get the chance to compete for a championship. I personally feel this is a deep roster that can make a serious run in the playoffs.
As I said before the jump, this is kind of out there, but I don't see any reason why it can't work. If you can, please tell me; I'm more than willing to listen. Thanks for reading!
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no chance whatsoever this trade happens. ever
maybe if its just for steve but if the suns are giving up lopez also they will definetely want more than 2 players who are out of d antonis rotation and another who is barely in it
They don't even play Lopez anymore.
Plus, Randolph is out of the rotation due to his being so raw. If the Suns trade Nash, they’re officially in rebuilding mode and they’d have more than enough time to let Randolph develop into less of an idiot.
That doesn't excuse the fact that the trade is extremely one sided
The Suns in desperation mode wouldn’t do that, even for a one day rental
by fumblesnout on Jan 10, 2011 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
Every trade for a great player is one sided.
Yeah, the Suns can go ask for a bunch of draft picks, but that doesn’t man equal value. Hell, even if they get 3 first rounders for Nash, there’s a pretty good chance none of those guys are worth anything in ten years. This is more of a “Hey, you need a big man? Here’s Randolph. He’s 21 and a PF with a lot of potential. Also, take Eddy Curry’s expiring contract, Bill Walker, and a pick as long as we get Lopez. If you don’t like it, great, we’ll stick with what we have.”
If the Suns don’t like the trade, that’s fine. I’m not gonna gut the team to gain a surplus.
Hm...
but wouldn’t they just sit Randolph ala Lopez? At least Lopez is a lot better than Randolph, in their eyes, so you’re saying trade Steve Nash and Robin Lopez for someone who’s a bit younger than Lopez and who’s not playing on a team who needs big bodies, an expiring contract that they don’t really need, Bill Walker who is useless to them, and a non-lottery pick? come on, really?
by B- on Jan 12, 2011 5:18 AM EST up reply actions
nice write up
when i began to read this i almost vomited. but as i read along, it made some sense. no way the nash thing happens tho. we got our own all star pg. i really like the lopez aspect of your trade. mda can have two, young and still learning bigs who wanna box each other.
i’m kinda hopin to snag up telfair to back up felt. i know hes fallen off these past couple seasons, but dude is only 25 years old, born in ny, had like two good seasons, and is wanting out of minny. we can proly get him for nothin.
With D'Antoni, I'm just always worried that he wants Nash no matter the cost.
This way, we don’t lose Felton. As for Telfair, I’m kinda ehh on him but if he comes with a pick, I don’t see why not.
There is no way the Suns give up Nash for those players...
if they wanted to trade NAsh it wouldn’t be in a NY-PHX vacuum; so many teams would give WAY better offers than that
Donnie's bout to beat the NBA game like he got a cheat code
I originally planned on leaving out the specifics of the trade.
The point was more to see what people thought of having Felton and Nash together; should’ve realized that with the trade at the beginning of the post, everyone would focus on that.
ha
yea i thought it was another “gut the team” trade thread or suntin.
i dont think the nash, felt thing would work. plus phx aint gana get rid of him for nothin, they gana want some type of melo deal/package coming back to them.
i do wanna snatch lopez up tho. id give curry, billy, and both 2nd rounders. but i doubt theyd even take that for him, even though he isnt playin much.
by bobitostretch on Jan 10, 2011 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
I would want Lopez also...
but that’s an awful lot for Lopez, no? how much is he making right now? I would think Curry’s expiring would take up most if not all and then 1 more person… the 2 2nd rounders? really?
Q: Who is at center?
A: beats the hell out of me!
Lopez is still under his rookie contract so he is not making much at all. He will probably get maxed out tho after next season.
by Robert Currence on Jan 11, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
LOL
I meant they are probably gonna resign him. Sorry!
by Robert Currence on Jan 11, 2011 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
as far as player feelings
i dont think felt would like nash coming over. too much, “he aint nash” talk throughout the season for him.
Hopefully Felton would be alerted of this beforehand.
This is obviously the kinda thing where if you’re Walsh, you tell him what’s going on and make sure he’s okay with it. If not, don’t do it.
This trade might seem unbalanced in the Knicks’ favor
really, u think?
What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!
by Lord Smackington on Jan 10, 2011 11:14 PM EST reply actions
it'd be nice but no way...aint enough dummy juice in the world to make PHX do that
What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!
by Lord Smackington on Jan 10, 2011 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
Probably not.
But we don’t need Nash, so if they don’t want the trade, that’s fine with me.
tell u what tho
I do think Lopez would be exactly what we need…big, defensive minded and cheap!
What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!
by Lord Smackington on Jan 11, 2011 12:12 AM EST up reply actions
Wow
You solved all our problems! I mean every team has 2 starting point guards, right? And I suppose we’ll give them each 24 minutes and everyone’s happy…. HAHAHAHA. I don’t even know where to start with this. … I can’t, won’t even try to explain the idiocies of this trade.
Also, how does trading nash and lopez for 3 scrubs make the suns BETTER in the long run? We take their all-star PG for a bunch of you-know-whos and they IMPROVE! Now that is some logic I never learned in school.
Keep it classy, and in your second post, try to be realistic just a little and actually improve our team. (I’ll help you out here- Melo for those three doesnt help Denver in the long-run either.)
Thanks :)
Was being a huge dick necessary?
If you’re trying to meet some quota, I understand; however, I think the asshole meeting down the hall gives you the chance to do just that.
Remember kids, yayo says "Keep it classy..."
In Donnie we trust.
by $100M Contract on Jan 11, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
I think we'll trade for Nash once Carmelo ends up in NJ
just a hunch. I’ll pray that its for what you gave up here, but I highly doubt it.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
I doubt it too.
But if I were Walsh, I wouldn’t offer much more than this. If they want Fields, Chandler, or Gallo, they can go look somewhere else for those types of players.
Its a nice thought
but aside from the one-sided trade, both Nash and Felton deserve to start and play starters minutes. It would be a disservice to them to have a time-share. It might even hurt our team if one of these guys plays SG too. 6’1" just doesn’t cut it when you have even crappy SG like Demar DeRozan who are like 6’7".
I think the only way Nash ever comes to the Knbicks with Felton on the team is as an assistant coach.
I do applaud you for trying to think it though though.
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Jan 11, 2011 9:19 AM EST reply actions
Felton's shown a bit of scrappiness (that a word? probably not)...
…when forced to defend someone bigger than him. Obviously, with Nash being the horrible defender he is and Felton being so small, our defense would take a hit when they’re both in there, but it might turn out to be worth it for 15 mpg. Or, it could backfire and we’re stuck with two starting PGs.
Yeah, I agree, Felton can handle the occasional bigger opponent
but this would be a nightly thing. Occasional would the opponent who is his size. I think while it may work a bit, over the season it would end up hindering the Knicks more than helping them. Also, Felton is a decent shooter, but not a great one. Turning him to a SG if we allow Nash to run PG (or even vice versa as Nash is easily a superior shooter) just seems an unneccesary risk to take when we have a guy like Landry Fields who is progressing very nicely as a SG.
I’m trying to entertain this dual PG idea of yours, and I really only see it happening in NBA LIve when you can control the whole damn team and such :-).
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Jan 12, 2011 7:23 PM EST up reply actions
I'm a huge Nash fan
and I’m pretty sure he would be the starting PG if he came even tho Ray has been playing lights out….I’m not too sure about Ray at the 2, I mean he’s been shooting well and all, but to hold down a starting 2 position, that may be asking alot, plus I would hate to lose Fields in the starting lineup. He gives immediate hustle and energy to start off the game. I def wouldn’t mind getting Robin at center…all in all tho, I don’t think Phoenix would make this deal…
Fields not being in the starting lineup would be an issue.
But in this scenario, there’s no way Felton would be willing to come off the bench, and I don’t blame him.
"I don’t think Phoenix would make this deal" + stat says no.
reason why stat left suns (money aside) he felt the suns was nash’s team not his. i dont think he wants to experience even the slightest bit of dejavu by seeing nash in orange and blue.
by cheers from manhattan on Jan 11, 2011 10:28 AM EST reply actions
I don't think it's unreasonable to think Nash could sign here for relatively cheap as a FA when his contract ends after next season
At age 38, he would be backing up Felton. He’ll probably get offered some much better roles/salaries though.
Tkow
I don’t think your idea sucks in theory, but there are some serious problems with it from a team standpoint. Nash makes 10.3 mil this year and 11.6 mil next yr. That is alot of money to tie up at the point guard position. Secondly there would be real concerns about the team Chemistry. Would Nash want to come in here and be a back up? Would Ray? and then there is the fickle media and the fans to be concerned about. If Ray has a bad game, then how is he gonna be effected by the We want Nash chants, and Berman writing that D’Antoni should bench Ray and start nash or vice versa every week depending on which one had a good game or not.
by Robert Currence on Jan 11, 2011 2:55 PM EST reply actions
You're 100% right.
So for this to even be a possibility, everyone would need to be on board from the start. That doesn’t necessarily mean it would stay that way once it happened, obviously. I don’t really think this will happen, but it’s fun to dream.
the best trade ever in the face of the world every one wins (sarcasm)
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=478yhm5
Gang green nation!
we won the f#%ing game now lets go get a goddamn snack!
This trade stinks.
Giving up Ronny Turiaf in a ’Melo trade? No thanks.
Otherwise? It’s pretty fair. (also sarcasm)
I was just about to write a fanpost on this too
The dual pointguard Nash-Felton dragon directed by Pringles
I’ve had this idea for a while now. I just really dislike Lopez. He looks like a goat and is MAD soft
by Daniel Zimnikov on Jan 11, 2011 3:12 PM EST reply actions
What if we make the Suns trade us an actual goat?
It might play better post D than who we have anyway.
how bout this one i know we get rid of safari but we everything of need melo is jus to piss the nets off which is win in its self we get a center and a back up PG (sarcasm again)
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4djsexz
Gang green nation!
we won the f#%ing game now lets go get a goddamn snack!
oh! speaking of the nets we should all have a contest to see who can make them worse trade jus for giggles ill start :)
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4fggsa7
Gang green nation!
we won the f#%ing game now lets go get a goddamn snack!
by JETSFANF0RLYF3 on Jan 11, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
i mean... the trade machine DOES say the trade is successful
and the trade machine never lies right?
wicked trade man
by bucketsncents on Jan 11, 2011 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
This trade just won't happen.
Suns won’t give up Lopez, they want picks to rebuild, trading bench guys for stars never happens, etc.
i think at this point...
we don’t know what the hell the suns will do. doesn’t seem like they have much of a plan at all. hopefully they acquired gortat just to trade him to us.
by bucketsncents on Jan 11, 2011 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
see the thing is that no commenters seem to be taking into is finances. Sarver (suns owner) has a reputation of being on the cheap side (ask Amar’e, they had him in their building every day; they knew they were giving up an mvp candidate) and having curry’s expiring on the books vs. nash’s contract saves them 11 mil. Something the franchise values. The problem is the one they’ve been toying with since amar’e signed with us; how do they rebuild (get rid of nash) while still selling tickets (nash is there only draw, the only thing keeping them relevant in ticketbuyer’s minds) granted, randolph and bully aren’t household names, but they could re-building pieces. but the same could be said for lopez.
I’d hate our perimeter d with nash in the mix, and it’s not like we’re hurting for offensive production. we’d get bigger and smaller at the same time somehow
the trade is unlikely, as admitted by the author, but it’s not as onesided as depicted. remember; salary dumps happen. either way it’s a fascinating thought, as evidenced by the vitriol in the responses.
Thank you.
I don’t necessarily think it’s absolutely dreadful. It’s probably not going to happen, but you never know what runs through someone’s mind. Sarver could be most interested in getting back an expiring contract along with a few upside players, and who’s to say someone offers him a larger expiring than Curry? It’s likely someone comes up with a better offer, but you never know. I see no reason why Walsh shouldn’t tell the Suns that if they want an expiring contract, this is what he’s willing to offer. Otherwise, the Suns can look elsewhere and no one would have any problem with that.
So for how long
Would the Suns’ GM need to be addicted to crack to finally do this trade?
If, for no other reason than to keep the fans from storming his office with pitchforks, no WAY he would do this trade. You’re talking about trading one of the most entertaining and likeable players in NBA history for Eddy Curry! Suns fans would be besides themselves.
Nash will (and should) retire in Phoenix. Not everything is about cap space, youth, etc. Nash is a legend in Phoenix and deserves to finish his career there.
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!

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