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Around SBN: Transfer Rumor: Bolton On Verge of First Signings

Why I Don't Want Carmelo Anthony


http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/23950/carmelo-anthony-superstar

http://dberri.wordpress.com/2011/01/13/why-is-lebron-james-a-more-productive-player-than-carmelo-anthony/

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704803604576078183871144402.html

 

I rest my case. To get Carmelo the Knicks will most likely have to give up a minimum of two first round picks, Landry Fields and Wilson Chandler or Gallo. Do you really think that one inefficient player is worth all of that? Rather than tearing the team apart for Carmelo, we can simply not trade our players and use those picks to fortify the team we already have. Acquiring Carmelo will not address our most pressing issues, interior D, rebounding and lack of a backup PG.

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NY Post today says Walsh is able to get two #1 draft picks for the 2011 draft to go along with the Knick’s own 2011 #1 pick.

Randolph should bring back one #1 pick & the Knicks can buy a #1 pick for $3 mil just like they did when they
bought a #1 to get Douglas.

by frankiec on Jan 18, 2011 1:50 PM EST reply actions  

Here is my Question

If Donnie Walsh has the opportunity to secure 3 1st round picks in next draft, wouldn’t he be better off keeping the picks. As other posts on here have clearly indicated, the Knicks need depth. Why give up those picks in theory for Anthony, when they can be used for players to bolster our own depth chart?

by Robert Curre on Jan 18, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

If the picks are from Indy and Minnesota...

I agree, we should keep those bitches!!

"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire

by Chris Child's Fist on Jan 18, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Definitely

I trust Donnie to make a better selection(s) in the Draft. I don’t know anything really about the upcoming class, but I’m sure we can find a keeper or two. Even looking back on it, Jordan Hill would be useful on this team for 10-15 minutes a game.

by WSD on Jan 18, 2011 10:51 PM EST up reply actions  

imho

i think this is all a smoke screen. No trading of anyone from the Knicks will happen involving Melo. DW knows what time it is, and why would he make his shit public. He has been a master of being behind the scenes. see David Lee trade. I think even Melo realizes that blowing up the time is not smart. I think if anything pops off with Melo it will be a rent-a star deal

In Rick Jackson I trust

by cusetownstomp on Jan 19, 2011 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Knicks could try to trade Gallo for two #1 picks fr NJ, but I don’t think that’s
going to happen.

by frankiec on Jan 18, 2011 1:52 PM EST reply actions  

I just don’t think Denver wants 2 trade with the Knicks.

by frankiec on Jan 18, 2011 1:54 PM EST reply actions   3 recs

And there it is.

Denver believes NY has been recruiting Melo for a long time so they just don’t want to “help” NY out by trading Melo to them.

"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire

by Chris Child's Fist on Jan 18, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Nah....

it’s strictly “bidness.” Donnie don’t want to blow up the team for Melo. He wants him on the cheap or he’s willing to live without him (as are many here including moi). So he’ll wait until either Denver has exhausted all other options and/or Melo puts his foot down. Melo has the power here….not the Nugs. But as the time passes the power struggle between Melo and the Nugs intensifies with the epiration of the CBA. As Sgt Schultz would say: “Veeeerrry EEEnteresting.”

its one thing to start it with a positive jam and it's another thing to see it on through....The Hold Steady

by sadderbudweiser on Jan 18, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Very true

I think it is part personal on Denver’s part, though. You don’t want to help out your franchise player who says he doesn’t want to be a part of the franchise anymore.

by WSD on Jan 18, 2011 10:53 PM EST up reply actions  

NY is also very limited asset wise as opposed to the Nets

Denver isn’t really interested in a package of Chandler/Gallo, Fields, Randolph and a 2014 1st when they could be getting Favors, Harris, Morrow, Damion James and 2-3 1sts (both likely lottery picks).

But if Melo isn’t traded by Feb. then I see him going to the Knicks because Carmelo is going to have all the leverage and Denver will likely cut their losses. Denver might not want to trade with NY, but they might have to eventually.

by fumblesnout on Jan 18, 2011 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Denver SAYS it's not very interested in the assets, NY has.

But you know as well as I do that guys like Wilson Chandler, Landry Fields, Danilo Gallinari have excellent value and 2 of the 3 are still on a rookie contract. Add into that a major expiring contract in Eddy Curry, other expiring contracts in Turiaf, Azubuike, Roger Mason Jr, and even a super potential piece in Randoplh (who is expiring too I believe) and the Knicks absolutely have good assets. Sure Denver wants 1st round picks, and thats fine…but Fields and Gallo are just like having picks but you already know how they can handle the NBA.

So really, plenty of people argue the Nets have a better package to offer… maybe they do, maybe they don’t. But Don’t get caught in the politics that the Knicks “don’t have anything to offer”. This is simply payback for Denver’s opinion that NY has long been recruiting Melo. Similar to Dan Gilbert believing Riley recruited LeBron for years.

No, Donnie isn’t willing to gt the team for Carmelo…. but it has been reported that Denver isn’t even talking with the Knicks.

"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire

by Chris Child's Fist on Jan 18, 2011 3:22 PM EST up reply actions  

To me, NJ's offer is very enticing

Moreso than the Knicks’ if for nothing more than variety. It offers them a chance to rebuild by drafting and acquiring some young, promising talent. Also, they’ll have at least some talent with Harris, who like him or not, is still a good PG, and some of the guys they already have on that team. If I’m not mistake they’ll have cap space too.

New York would have 3 somewhat proven, quality team players, but they’re all wing players. If Denver loses someone like Nene too, then they lack the ability to rebuild like they could with NJ’s offer. If they took our deal, they’d have young good talent, but in the West, they probably wouldn’t do more than fight for a playoff spot

by WSD on Jan 18, 2011 11:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I was more trying to make a point that plenty of teams have assets

Oklahoma City has a ton of assets, as does Minnesota and the LA Clippers. But Denver isn’t talking a deal with any of those teams because it knows Melo wont sign there and they won’t give up the assets Denver claims to want.

The Knicks absolutely are a place melo has said he would like to play. So even if Denver doesn’t “like our assets” so what? Melo said he wants to play in NY so you might as well get on the phone because dude has hinted he will only sign an extension with a few teams.

"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire

by Chris Child's Fist on Jan 19, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions  

disagree. Either Denver is willing to trade Anthony or they are not

Now if they are willing to trade Anthony, then they are going to trade him to the team that they feel offer them the most value coming back. If the Knicks offered them what they thought was the best deal, they would make the trade. Personally, I do not believe that they Knicks do not offer them the best deal. For example what if Memphis were to offer up Rudy Gay, OJ Mayo, and 2 #1’s? If you were Denver’s GM would you not do that deal? What if Minnesota offered up Wesley Johnson, Kevin Love, and the draft rights to Rubio, plus their number one pick? Possible that deal would be done. Really folks it has to do with what is being offered.

Stoudemire for Anthony straight up, (that deal gets done by Denver) so let’s not go off on conspiracy theories.

by Robert Curre on Jan 18, 2011 3:25 PM EST up reply actions  

At first I really thought you were suggesting those deals

But I know you well enough to know that you’re a respectable, reliable poster. I think Denver is hesitant to trade Anthony because they do know he wants to go to the Knicks, and because they might be able to prove to him that they can contend for a championship. When healthy, I think they can do that too

by WSD on Jan 18, 2011 11:06 PM EST up reply actions  

That 1st article you linked to was good...you should try reading it

Because it takes an even handed approach at assessing the pros and cons of Carmelo’s game…and mostly comes away realizing that:

  • he’s a great player
  • the best player’s, coaches, and GM’s in the world recognize how great he is; and
  • his contributions to team wins require an appreciation of contributions beyond his box score stats (like shooting efficiency).

Here are some key points you evidently missed (mostly quoted verbatim from the article):

1) He’s the best scoring small forward in the world

He’s the best pure scoring small forward in the world," says [NBA coach] Thorpe. “By pure scorer, I mean, if you just have one possession, he’s the toughest matchup for a defender. He can shoot a 3. He can pull up. He can dribble drive. The triple threat game is very sophisticated. He’s dynamite once he gets in the lane. And unlike LeBron James or Kevin Durant, Carmelo has a mature and reliable post game. LeBron is a better all-around player, but Anthony’s the better bucket getter.”

2) His teammates are better because of him

Nate Silver published a quick analysis of Anthony on The New York Times site that pointed out that while Anthony might not pass the ball to his teammates all that much — his assists are few and far between — he is evidently still helping them score….this makes some sense. There are a limited number of ways to get an NBA defense seriously discombobulated. One of them is to draw a double teams, [another is to make defenders account for you, and focus less on guarding their man, other players, passing lanes, etc.]

Anthony can help his teammates score even when he’s on the bench, by drawing the fouls that not only earn his team points, but also help the Nuggets get in the bonus. The Nuggets are very near the top of the league in time spent in the bonus this season.

Think Wilson Chander and Landry Fields look this good with last year’s cast of Knicks around them? Oh, and if you look at player stat’s on the Heat this year, almost all of the role players on that squad are having career years for "statistical efficiency."

3) The most powerful stat geek in the NBA loves Melo

[Rocket’s GM (and MIT alum)] Darryl Morey has repeatedly spoken about how elite scorers are necessary to win titles. It’s also worth noting that Morey has reportedly been dogged in his pursuit of Anthony. If true, it’s a powerful message that at the highest levels of statistical analysis, Anthony can indeed be seen as worth a maximum contract.

4) The best basketball players in the world love Melo

NBA players know basketball as well as anyone, and it’s hard to find players calling Anthony anything other than an elite force.
Players revere Anthony’s skills. Anthony has credibility with top free agents.

5) His defense has shown consistent improvement and seems highly underrated

On defense, he’s gone from 5.2 points worse per 100 possessions four years ago to close to neutral to, now, making the team 5.4 points per 100 possessions better on defense.

People’s criticism of Melo’s D seems very similar to everyone saying how Amar’e plays "horrible defense." Yet this year the Knick’s are giving up fewer points per possession than last year, while the Sun’s are giving up more. On offense the reverse is true…but everyone expected that.

6) Melo has quietly become literally the best rebounding small forward in the NBA

7) Melo is both a champion and a GREAT player

He’s already won a championship for NY in his only year at ‘Cuse…and brought the Nuggets from a 17 win team the year before he arrived to a playoff team every year since.

The ESPN article summarizes it well:

it’s clear that anyone who can [do what Melo does] must have both a massive capacity for work, and a certain brilliance in making exceptionally quick reads and decisions. Anthony’s career has demonstrated time and again that he has all of that, which can be deployed in many aspects of basketball: scoring over double-teams, drawing fouls, winning rebounding battles and more.

Now, as you sometimes hear Amar’e say right after a monster block (and right before getting a Technical ☹)

Get that weak shit outta here!

by Left Coast Cowboy on Jan 18, 2011 3:07 PM EST reply actions   2 recs

Nice points but in your enthusiasm you missed something

The issue is not whether or not Anthony is a great player, but whether or not he is so great that he is worth gutting a team for. Or as I have been saying for the whole season. Are the Knicks a better team by swapping Anthony for Gallo, Chandler, Fields, and two first round picks for him (which presumably would come from trading Randolph or Douglas. Or Signing Antony as a free agent, Keeping Chandler (which could be done) Gallo, Fields, and if Donnie is able to work a deal for two additional draft picks next year, then 3 first rounders. It seems to me that option two which has us getting Anthony by parting with some cash and keeping everything else makes us a much better team. And if you are correct that he makes everyone so much better and the Knicks will spend so much time in the bonus, well Chandler and Gallinari are both excellent free throw shooters so that will add a few points a game to them. And if playing with one Superstar has made these guys better than playing with two superstars should make them doubly as good!!!

Lastly, Until Morey’s statistical genius actually wins a title, I would advise you and all the rest who treat him like God, to chill. Remember Donnie got raped by Morey last year, Well how is that trade working for you now? Would you rather have Jared Jeffries and Jordan Hill or Raymond Felton? Because there isn’t any money for Felton without that trade!

by Robert Curre on Jan 18, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Was responding to the OP…and we agree on what the real question is

The OP referenced 3 links and then said "I rest my case"

- The last 2 of those links were both argument that Melo is average to slightly above average (both made from the same guy, Dave Berri, who makes many bold and entirely inaccurate predictions…in case you don’t remember he also said Getting Amar’e wouldn’t help the Knicks and losing him wouldn’t really hurt the Suns, because his stats showed that David Lee!, Troy Murphy!!, and Samuel Dalembert!!! were all better big men than Amar’e).

- Ironically, the 1st link made a very well presented case for why Melo is likely to be a superstar level talent, even though people like Berri try to dispute this with highly questionable statistical methods.

I think it’s silly to argue whether or not Melo is a good player, especially if the reason you think he’s not that good is “Dave Berri said so.” My main point is in that debate you’ll either:
• on the side with one stat guy (and some other writers who agree with him but don’t seem to add much to his argument),
OR
• you’re on the side that has the best basketball players, coaches, and general managers in the world…and also happens to have even better credentialed stat guys of their own agreeing with them.

…So hopefully we can get past the "Melo’s only OK" or he would hurt the Knicks just by being here because of inefficient shooting.

Now the quesiton you bring up – which is how much the Knick’s should be willing to give up for Melo IS a very important and difficult one to answer.

If we just care about the Knicks, you’re right the team is probably best off signing Melo as a FA for less money. But there’s a lot of risk in that approach that we don’t get him at all, and if we’re expecting Melo to take less than market value, should we also expect other key player sacrifices? Like:
• Amar’e to renegotiate his contract down? or
• Chandler to accept his qualifying offer so we have more cap room?
• Turiaf to opt-out of his player option if we need cap space…or accept it if we need him and can’t offer him more $ when other teams will?

All would be good for the team, sure, but not realistic or fair to the players.

I think the final result of all this will be Melo getting traded to the Knicks at the deadline, and the Knicks should not have to give up more than 1 of Chandler, Gallo and Fields…but will need to add 1-2 2nd tier youngins’ and picks (and we should be able free up 3-4 new 1st round picks if Denver prefers picks to players).

The Nuggets are playing hardball right now, but Melo’s stood tough all year and as soon as they realize they won’t be able to break him, they’ll take the best deal for the team since they won’t get much for a rental (and possibly nothing at all without a trade).

The other hard question to answer is – are there other players out there that the Knicks could get instead of Melo that could help them even more?

Tough to say (I’d love to see Kendrick Perkins and Leandro Barbosa in orange and blue), but if we could actually get them or any of the other strong free agents people want is a big question mark. When you have a chance at a player like Melo, you gotta take that chance vs. trying to low ball and keeping your fingers crossed for free agency.

by Left Coast Cowboy on Jan 18, 2011 10:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I've been mostly anti-Melo

But lately I have begun to rethink that. I wonder how much Carmelo’s inefficiency has to do with the lack of a serious interior scoring threat in the frontcourt. I don’t think he’s ever played with a guy that can do what Amar’e can do.

The second point is that I’ve noticed Carmelo’s great rebounding this season. For a team like the Knicks, this would be a very valuable second aspect to Carmelo’s game which would help them. I think Chandler might be a better defender, but Melo’s got the rebounding edge, and for the Knicks, that’s pretty important. The Knicks might even play Melo at the 4, depending on who they had to give up for him.

It’s going to go down to the wire because the Nuggets would prefer to deal with a team more desperate than the Knicks and get more. But if Melo doesn’t sign that extension with NJ or anyone else, a Knicks offer of Gallo or Chandler with Curry’s expiring and a first round pick, maybe throwing in Buike’s expiring or Mozgov or something, starts to look pretty good to Denver compared with just losing him.

by fuhry on Jan 18, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, I think Melo will definitely play PF if he comes here

Especially if we hold on tight to the Cock, pause. Doesn’t a Gallo/Melo/Amar’e front court seem like like a very D’Antoni thing to do? I think the best case scenario if Melo comes here is that he embraces the Wilson Chandler role on offense as a compliment to the Felton/Amar’e pick and roll rather than expect the system to be redesigned around his (considerable!) talents.

On the one hand, it would be asking him to change an ISO-heavy style of play that has won him max money and many accolades. On the other hand, he’d be feasting all day on open jumpers and single coverage, when not watching his buddy Amar’e violently flushing it again and again.

by flossy on Jan 18, 2011 7:36 PM EST up reply actions  

well...

1) Yes he is
2) My point isn’t that he’s a horrible player, just an above average player. It makes sense that the Nuggets are better with him.
3) Morey might be the most powerful stat geek in the NBA but that’s because he’s the only stat geek who’s a GM. And also the Rockets are 19 and 23.
4) NBA players respect ‘melo. That’s because he scores on them. Not because advanced statistics show he’s one of the top ten players in the league. Advanced statistics (apparently; of course I’m no good at math and I only believe what the experts write) actually say he’s around middle of the pack.
5) I won’t argue with that.
6) If the best rebounders on the team aren’t the big men, then we’ll get killed on outlets since the people who are supposed to be getting back on defense will be going after rebounds. (Not to take anything away from Landry Fields, the best rebounding guard in the NBA.)
7) Raymond Felton is also a champion, remember? and As to ‘melo being a great player, well I think the article proved that’s just not true.

And don’t forget if we go through with the trade we would no longer have any depth or financial flexibility.

by thePharcyde on Jan 18, 2011 6:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Longer reply above...quoted below

You:

referenced 3 links and then said “I rest my case”

- The last 2 of those links were both argument that Melo is average to slightly above average (both made from the same guy, Dave Berri, who makes many bold and entirely inaccurate predictions…in case you don’t remember he also said Getting Amar’e wouldn’t help the Knicks and losing him wouldn’t really hurt the Suns, because his stats showed that David Lee!, Troy Murphy!!, and Samuel Dalembert!!! were all better big men than Amar’e).
- Ironically, the 1st link made a very well presented case for why Melo is likely to be a superstar level talent, even though people like Berri try to dispute this with highly questionable statistical methods

Berri’s arrogant idiocy just annoys me, especially when it get’s published in the WSJ and presented as reliable statistical analysis rather than simply one stat guy’s opinion. Sorry if I was harsh with you…I realize you don’t have a stats background yourself, and it’s Berri and WSJ I’m most frustrated with.

If you read through your 1st link – “Carmelo Anthony Superstar” – it just raises the statistical questions about him in the beginning, then goes on to give a lot of good evidence for why he is considered an elite player, and not a “slightly above average player” by many of the most respected people in the NBA.

I agree with you that we can’t gut the team, but I don’t think we’ll end up having to give up as much as you think we will. Melo wants to win as much as he want’s the money. If the Nuggets aren’t negotiating with the Knicks in good faith (like now), he has the ultimate trump card of being able to just walk away, which the Nugget’s owners simply can’t allow to happen.

by Left Coast Cowboy on Jan 18, 2011 11:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Left Coast Cowboy,

I appreciate your more considerate tone this time around. Also, the link to his prediction that Amare wouldn’t help the Knicks, which does shed more light on his record of statistical analysis.

I tend to favor information that reinforces my own point of view (who doesn’t), but whether or not Berri’s method is flawed I stand by my opinion that the Knicks should not trade for Melo.

Assuming he is the superstar that this whole fiasco would suggest, he still doesn’t address our most pressing issues, and the burden of his contract would make it difficult to address those issues.

On the other hand, if we stand pat, we could sign someone in free agency (hopefully Marc Gasol) who would provide rebounding and post defense, and use the two first round picks (assuming we trade AR) to bolster our back court.

by thePharcyde on Jan 19, 2011 1:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Give away the picks

Who knows if MDA is even going to play those picks. His control freak ass.

by terellchewy on Jan 18, 2011 4:50 PM EST reply actions  

That would be fine

Too bad the Knicks don’t have any

by fumblesnout on Jan 18, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions  

whats up guy? never heard of me?

My name is Landry, starting SG for the NY Knicks and a rookie playing for Mike D.

I am a fan of both the mets and knicks... so just kill me now.

by gbaked on Jan 18, 2011 5:15 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

A second round pick, nonetheless!

"It was one of those good, deep sleeps; you know, the ones where you wake up and a stream of drool is steadily racing down your shirt? Yes, that kind of sleep." -Landry Fields

by Thelonious Dunk on Jan 18, 2011 5:20 PM EST up reply actions  

To be fair

Landry is an aberration. 90% of the 1st round picks from this past draft don’t contribute like Landry.

On the other hand, look at that face! In my opinion, he needs to wear orange and blue for a long, looooong time!

by WSD on Jan 18, 2011 11:13 PM EST up reply actions  

lol

twice

The Landryman Can

by YuckFou on Jan 19, 2011 1:20 AM EST up reply actions  

I still don't understand why Fields doesn't get more touches during a game.

His FG% is great, he’s out there for over 30min/gm a night, but he only averages 7.5 shot attempts and 10pts/gm. I think we are underutilizing him a bit. Adding him more into our offensive gameplan should easily turn him into a reliable ~15pts/gm guy. The kid has a lot of potential.

The Isles future looks brighter then most would think with these young core guys in place:
Tavares, Okposo, Bailey, Nielsen, Niederreiter, Grabner, MacDonald, Hamonic, and DeHaan.

by OzzyFan on Jan 19, 2011 2:51 AM EST up reply actions  

yeah man

landry fields is asking: “what’s the fuss? i’m here to stay, peeps!”

"the best there is, the best there was, the best there ever will be."

by mindcontrolproject on Jan 28, 2011 8:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Hold up one second!

Did you call Camelo “inefficient”? He is a top 5 scorer in the NBA and he is inefficient? The idea of this post has some merit, but calling him “one inefficient player” takes away any confidence anybody has in your opinion.

Please define an efficient player for me. Is Randolph or Mozgov efficient? I mean, they don’t average over 20 ppg, so I guess that’s efficient. Correct?

Thanks :)

"Shrewd, Clever, Slick" ... Where is the shrewdness, cleverness, slickness?

Why am I the only one on this site who: (a) knows what he's talking about; (b) can actually manufacture his own, intelligent opinions; and (c) fits the three qualifications listed above?

by Free.yayo on Jan 18, 2011 9:06 PM EST reply actions  

Antony is inefficient because he is a high volumn shooter

He needs shots and alot of them to score. He is an All star and a top 5 scorer because he is consistent. Consider Amar’e and his most recent 6 game stretch, he was fairly consistent, he scored over 20 points in every game, but he was highly inefficient in doing so. There is a big difference in Stoudemire scoring 24 points and going 10-15 than scoring the same 24 points and going 10 for 28. That is what is meant by efficient. Melo can get 40 on any night he wants, but the question is how many shots will it take him to get there some nights.

by Robert Currence on Jan 18, 2011 9:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Thank you Robert

I agree with your statement. However, since he is not the most efficient, it does not make him inefficient. He just is not as efficient as others because of his shot volume. He is consistent and will average over 20 ppg every season. He just is not the most efficient.

Calling him inefficient is disgraceful.

Thanks :_

*Note: The post below was intended as a reply. Sometimes in my genius, I make a small mistake. Thank you for understanding :)

"Shrewd, Clever, Slick" ... Where is the shrewdness, cleverness, slickness?

Why am I the only one on this site who: (a) knows what he's talking about; (b) can actually manufacture his own, intelligent opinions; and (c) fits the three qualifications listed above?

by Free.yayo on Jan 18, 2011 10:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Lets throw some statistics into this

Carmelo’s line is 8.1/18.7 FGM/FGA and 6.4/7.9 FTM/FTA for 23.1 ppg
Amar’e’s line is 9.8/19.4 FGM/FGA and 6.7/8.5 FTM/FTA for 26.4 ppg
Also, you have to remember that Amar’e takes most of his shots in the paint and receives the ball in the post/at the top of the key where Melo gets most of his shots from an isolation set.
Also remember that Carmelo has been injured for some of the year and he has been affected by the rumors (the last game vs NO, he had 8pts on 3/11 shooting, and had clearly checked out of the game before the tipoff).

So you can say his shots come from volume, but that is true for most NBA players. Amar’e takes about 1.5 more shots per game and scores 3 more points, while that is good it isn’t that significant

Furthermore, while his TS% is not very good, the article in the original post says it is in Sebastian Telfair range and I wanted to point out that Melos TS% of 52.2% is .2 away from Joe Johnson, .3 ahead of Iggy, .7 ahead of Stephen Jackson, 2.1 ahead of Brandon Roy, .9 away from Westbrook etc…. TS% has Ronny Turiaf ahead of Dirk, so it is not necessarily the best stat.

Im not trying to argue whether or not Carmelo is worth trading for, but all these statistics show that he is a very good player and stats can just be used in whatever way the author wants.

by fumblesnout on Jan 19, 2011 2:02 AM EST up reply actions  

there is no inverse relationship between scoring and efficiency. Scoring more doesn’t mean scoring inefficiently, nor did I imply that.

by thePharcyde on Jan 19, 2011 1:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Thank you Robert

I agree with your statement. However, since he is not the most efficient, it does not make him inefficient. He just is not as efficient as others because of his shot volume. He is consistent and will average over 20 ppg every season. He just is not the most efficient.

Calling him inefficient is disgraceful.

Thanks :_

"Shrewd, Clever, Slick" ... Where is the shrewdness, cleverness, slickness?

Why am I the only one on this site who: (a) knows what he's talking about; (b) can actually manufacture his own, intelligent opinions; and (c) fits the three qualifications listed above?

by Free.yayo on Jan 18, 2011 10:00 PM EST reply actions  

im having trouble understanding.....

a little check shows me that the nets have 3 “potential” 1st rd picks this year.

their own
the lakers (provided its 18th or worse)
and GSW – which is lottery protected this year.

where the hell did they get the 5 that’s being circulated in the media?

by raj m on Jan 18, 2011 11:07 PM EST reply actions  

They can also trade pick in future years

The Nets have their own and at least 1-2 other 1st round picks in the next few years that they can trade.

They just need to keep at least 1 1st round pick every other year (which I believe is known as the “Isiah/Dolan rule,” designed to limit the damage idiotic GM’s and owners can do to a franchise by making horrible trades).

by Left Coast Cowboy on Jan 18, 2011 11:53 PM EST up reply actions  

so that means, since we gave our pick to uta last year, we can’t trade this years pick? so then I imagine trading AR would make our package 2 1st rounders (this year and next) + curry + fill in the blank?

by raj m on Jan 19, 2011 12:17 AM EST up reply actions  

The Nets have 5 over the next 2 years

Nets 2011
Lakers 2011 (protected 18)
Nets 2012
Warriors 2012 (protected 1-8)
Houston 2012 (lottery protected)

by fumblesnout on Jan 19, 2011 1:02 AM EST up reply actions  

if you break it down, you can’t trade your own pick 2 years in a row, so dont they have to keep one between 2011 and 2012?

nets 2011 & nets 2012 – can only trade one due to “dolan/isiah rule”
lakers – given they will be above 18

(total of 2 picks out of 3)

warriors – chronic underachievers – possible this may not happen
houston – terrible team, will certainly be in lottery next year.

by my count

that means out of 5 the max they will get within the next 2 years is 3 picks then with a 50-50 shot they get gsw’s pick. if im denver i love this as opposed to the nyk package so it boils down to if melo really wants to play in ny. if he does he can force a trade here.

by raj m on Jan 19, 2011 2:25 AM EST reply actions  

how bout this

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6zdco2l

maybe have sac kick in a pick along with us to den.

why sac does this – they save about 7 mil over the course of the trade and get a project center in mozgov

why den does this – melo has said – i will only sign with NYK and den sends him to us for this or nothing.

why we do it – to get melo. danilo will always be an enigma here

by raj m on Jan 19, 2011 2:35 AM EST reply actions  

First off

The draft is extremely weak with the new CBA looming. I know that 3 picks in one draft sounds good, but we probably wouldn’t get a single starter from the draft.

Second, you don’t know what it’d take to get Melo. He might resign in Denver, they are playing well. Or, the Nets might get fed up with Uriji’s back and forth and decide to back out of the sweepstakes (highly unlikely, but still possible). What then? If Melo tells Denver he won’t extend anywhere BUT NY, then I doubt we trade Gallo, Fields, Chandler and 3 1st round picks to get him. I doubt it’d take that now.

But here’s the ultimate question. Would you want Melo if he was a FA, and would come with a max deal? I personally love him, and I think he would add a whole new dimension to our offense, making us a top 4 team if Donnie plugs some holes next offseason (which he will have the money to do despite the deal, trust me). Because if Melo comes, it makes Chandler and Gallo expendable (we wouldn’t resign Chandler, and Gallo would be relegated to the bench. He’d be nice to have on the bench, but it’d be as a back-up for Melo). Sprinkle a couple extra pieces and you have the deal that many of you are reluctant to do.

See here’s my thinking. We are waay too reliant on Amar’e. Picture a scenario where Amar’e is out for a longer period of time. How would we look then? We’d be marginally better then we were last season. Every top team in the NBA would be able to survive a couple of weeks without their star (maybe the Heat are the exception to the rule). Garnett goes down? Boston is worse, but still fine. Kobe misses time? The Lakers would be easier to beat, but they’d still be a good team. That’s my argument for getting Melo.

I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.

Vince Lombardi

by moose35 on Jan 19, 2011 11:17 AM EST reply actions  

The Nets will not back out

I am sure of this because there was an article saying that Billy King (Nets GM) was willing to back out of the deal because Denver wanted to much, but Prokhorov (Nets owner) wasn’t willing to do that. This is similar to the Cashman-Steinbranner dispute, and we know what happened there

by fumblesnout on Jan 19, 2011 3:28 PM EST up reply actions  

hmm.....

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Jan 20, 2011 7:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Lovin' the last two posts based on what we learned today!

moose: you will now herein be referred to as “Nostradamooose.”

fumblesnout: leave as is!

i love this place.

its one thing to start it with a positive jam and it's another thing to see it on through....The Hold Steady

by sadderbudweiser on Jan 19, 2011 7:05 PM EST reply actions  

We don’t know what will happen or what it will take but things are looking better for Knicks if that is where Melo wanna go. I don’t think it will take too much and there are many options. Melo could play the season in Denver or elsewhere and then come to NY or the Nuggets can trade him now to the Knicks for whatever is offered and it would be solid. We do need Melo but we also need a big and some bench scoring unless TD gets healthy again and steps up or others become more consistent. And I agree totally with Moose on what he said. We can’t rely on one player. Gallo is not consistent and Chandler is having slump also. We need rebounding and Melo is underrated as a rebounder because he grabs over 8 boards per game as a sf.

I would love to see someone like Marcus Camby, Tyson Chandler or even a Brandon Haywood, who is from NY anyway. It has to be a big that can play fast type of ball like the Knicks play and the above would work fine. This would allow Stat to be a pf again and having a Melo and others will be great. I don’t think we would have to give up Chandler, Gallo, Fields, Curry’s contract, 2 draft picks etc to get Melo but I honestly would give up Gallo or Chandler in a package unless we could get him this summer as a fa. We’ll see what happens but we can’t just stick with this team. If we did get Melo in fa, Chandler could be our best bench player along with a healthy TD Shawne, etc. Then if we get a center, Turiaf would be a solid backup for us and he could play both pf and center just like Chandler can play sf/pf. Gallo is a different story though because he can heat up at times but then is very inconsistent a lot of times. They can’t just stand around and watch Amare do everything. They gotta move around, get involved etc.

by RASHADI on Jan 21, 2011 2:54 AM EST reply actions  

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