SB Nation New York Editor's Pick
A Look At The Knicks Record Vs. +.500 Teams....Are They Legit?
by Major on Jan 8, 2011 3:40 PM EST
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PrintLets get straight to the point here. The Knicks record stands at 21-14 after the merciless pounding of the Phoenix Suns last night. However against .500 and better teams the Knicks are only 6-8. At a glance that record would seem to betray any proclamation of the Knicks being considered a legit team. The six wins come against the Bulls(2x), Thunder, Hornets, Spurs, and Nuggets. Consider this; only five teams currently have a .500 or better record against teams with winning records. Just five. Boston, Dallas, San Antonio, OKC and Miami. Eastern Conference teams considered to be better than the Knicks are struggling against winning teams. Chicago is 5-9, Atlanta is 4-9 and Orlando is 6-9. I am not at all suggesting the Knicks are better than these teams but if you consider these teams to be legit playoff threats then shouldn't the Knicks be on par with them?
The Western Conference is considered the senior league of the NBA. While the Celtics, Magic and Heat have improved themselves vastly, the depth of talented west teams outnumber the east. With that in mind the Knicks are currently 9-5 against the west. Besting the Celtics 6-3, Orlando 7-6 and Atlanta 8-6 and on par with Chicago 11-5 and Miami 10-5. Consider also that the Knicks have beaten the Western Conference teams with winning records by an avg of 9.75 points per game. Like I said earlier I am not trying to say that the Knicks are better than these teams based on a few positive stats but I am trying to point out the legitimacy of the Knicks record and the fact that the team should be considered much more of a playoff threat than they are being given credit for.
The Knicks will likely spend this entire season being considered a second tier team. Apparently only a trade to acquire Carmelo Anthony will sway bloggers and beat writers to respect the Knicks. It seems to me that the scribes and scouts would rather stand firm on their assessments instead of re-evaluating the talent on the Knicks. They would rather say that Chandler, Gallinari, Fields and Felton are over achieving rather than admit they drastically under valued their talent and potential. No matter how frustrating and annoying and dead wrong these assessments of the Knicks are it is something that the team and the fans will have to endure until another major player is acquired or the Knicks keep winning and force the perception to change. For me there is no doubt that the Knicks are a legit playoff threat.
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Was waiting for a post like this
good job major. I think you gotta say they’re in there with all these teams. Even Knicks fans are most likely skeptical of what to call them tho. But its obvious (especially those 2nd go round with Boston and Miami) that we’re in there.
The problem is playoff experience. That’s the one thing that will get people talking about you as a true dangerous team vs. a 1 and done squad.
The Bulls made it hell on the Celtics, then got Boozer. The Thunder made it hell on the Lakers and now Westbrook and Durant are even better.
That’s what we need. At worst, in the playoffs go and make it hell on some team. Until then it will be “well…imagine what they’d be with Carmelo”.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
I agree with your point
The thing I keep thinking about is the development of Gallo, Fields and Chandler. These are young players that really are figuring out who they are in the NBA but are now playing winning ball. Their play kinda reminds me of the ‘94-’95 Rockets. Sam Cassel and Robert Horry come out of no where to help Olajuwon win his championship. Now Amar’e is no Olajuwon but he’s very close on offense.
I make that comparison because Cassel and Horry became different players in the playoffs, they elevated their games and I really feel that if players out the Gallo, Chandler, Fields trio elevate their play and confidence, we are going to cause huge problems for any team we play.
Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitudes...
i'm trying to psycho-analyze our 3 young guns...
and decide who i think has the mental make-up to rise to the playoff occasion more than they shrink.
i’m leaning towards landry… but gallo has shown the propensity to elevate his game against stars… and will shows himself to be, well, robotic… which might come in handy in pressurized situations.
by bucketsncents on Jan 8, 2011 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
The intrigue is that we really don't know for sure yet
but we are watching them grow as players every single game. If two of the 3 emerge in the playoffs then the Knicks as a unit can beat any team they face. Thats the excitement of watching every game to see these players do something new and learn from mistakes. Chandlers jumper getting so much better, Gallo driving to the basket and upping his defense and Fields just doing what Fields does! Its great to see and I really believe a couple legit NBA stars will be made out of those 3 come june.
Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitudes...
Here’s a good place to get an idea – each player’s performance in the last 5 min of tight games:
by superturboultra on Jan 8, 2011 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
very nice find...
stat 1… felton 2… gallo 3… chandler 4… fields 5 in points in “clutch” time
though chandler has the best +/- in “clutch” time
by bucketsncents on Jan 8, 2011 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
for pause-worthy reasons
and basketball related stuff. due diligence or what have you.
/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \
but you'd sleep with him!
therefore making you, WTDD
This summer I said the Knicks would be this year's Thunder
and some people were like “shut up that’s ridiculous” but I think the prediction may be truer than I could have even hoped. A young, talented team that’s really coming together in an exciting, feel-good way. I expect us to sneak up on people and give one of the elite teams in the East a big scare in the first round (or even pull off an upset if we’re matched up w/ the Bulls). It’s not a perfect comparison—Westbrook is a level above Felton and Ama’re is older than Durant, though outside our respective big two we’re similarly stacked with young talent and we will have the money and space to add another major piece or two this summer whereas the Thunder pretty much stood pat after breaking out—but it feels similar.
Ultimately, until we make a splash in the playoffs, haters gonna hate and say we’re not at that level and need Melo immediately. And to be honest after the last decade this franchise has not earned the benefit of the doubt, so I get it.
Free Randolph.
i think we're a legit playoff team, but not a legit contender.
I think the defensive-oriented teams that have athletic bigs will shut us down easily in a series. I don’t think that we can handle the celtics, magic, or the lakers in a 7 game series.
IMO, talent and style of play are going to lead to a certain amount of wins in the regular season. But the post-season is all about creating and exploiting match-ups. And its the teams that are athletic enough on the block that they don’t have to constantly double amare that we can’t beat in a series.
If chandler or gallo can become the type of scorers that can demand a double, then my opinion changes. But right now, we’re too reliant on amare to generate offense.
by Crackback on Jan 8, 2011 4:28 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I think for us to win a series we'd have to lock down more on defense
I know we always back our team and say they aren’t as bad at defense as people say, but lately there hasnt been any emphasis on that end. There’s no way we could get past the second round, but if we got matched up against Miami or Boston or the Magic, I’d be happy giving them a scare into 6 or 7 games. I think we could possibly beat Atlanta or Chicago, but it’d be very tough.
I think at some point we need like Mozzie or somebody who’s not playing to be able to really contribute. Our big guns are logging too many minutes and getting some depth off that bench would really help
Yes they're a dangerous playoff team
But is that where we want to stop? Do we need to acquire pieces to reach that level?
The answer to the first question is HELL NO and the answer to the second depends entirely on Gallo and Chandler. Can they continue to develop?
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
Gotta walk (not travel)
before you run. We all want a chip, but Rome wasnt built in a day. Im all for ALWAYS getting better, but for now let the young guns develop and not be in a trade scenario every other day.
ROME wasnt built in a blah blah blah
but i agree wit ur post :)
Im all for ALWAYS getting better, but for now let the young guns develop and not be in a trade scenario every other day.
"they try to do what he do, and been where he's been, but they get folded in two.....he's the dude"
That made me laugh.
But the point stands. Im sure they will play even better once they can stop worrying about this shit.
True.
let them play and then we can start figuring out what player combinations / match-ups work. after all, we are trying at least to gain playoff experience.
"the best there is, the best there was, the best there ever will be."
by mindcontrolproject on Jan 9, 2011 8:10 AM EST up reply actions
Legit Playoff Team? YES. Contender For the Title? Not Quite Yet.
We will make the playoffs and could win if we play Chicago or Atlanta in the first round but we aint ready for the Big Boys(Bos, Mia, Orl) yet, til we get a more defensive mindset and the youngins(Wil, Landry, Gallo) step their games up for that playoff level.
Dear God, Im a Knicks Fan, Just wanted to say Thanks for Amare, but can you send him some help?
Yup yup.
And im good with that to be honest. Never expected a title this year, and Im not gonna start expecting 1 now.
Pointless.
Everyone already knows the Knicks are a legit playoff team but not ready to contend for the finals.
Thanks :)
Really?
Not everyone knows this and there is a difference being a playoff team that is one and done or a playoff team that can eliminate a top team. Thats the debate not if they will make the playoffs or contend for the finals.
Thanks for reading and trying to contribute :)
Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitudes...
Rec'd, and, honestly, any games played after April 13th
and I’m shitting eggrolls.
And I think any game played at MSG with roughly 19,763 like-minded individuals after a 7-year hiatus automatically makes us legit when the opposing team takes the floor (whoever they may hypothetically be). That being said, I voted, literally, “Not Yet”, because any such declarations make me unbelievably nervous. But I’m sending out the good vibes to the Knicks on the West Coast swing…
I think this opens up a legit question though. The Knicks are most likely going to make the playoffs. wait, let me just take a minute and write that again because it feels so good. The Knicks are most likely going to make the playoffs. ok, I need it one more time. The Knicks are most likely going to make the playoffs. wow that feels really good, I think i’m just going to write that for the rest of the day at work.
but back to my point, there are teams in the east that are going to make the playoffs because they’re good (BOS, ORL, CHI, MIA, ATL) and there are teams that have a good shot because there’s a lot of spots out there (IND, CHA, MIL, etc.) The knicks ride the fine line, but I think after some of our recent games (BOS loss, SAS, OKC, CHI) I think we’re a good playoff team. yeah we’ll probably lose in the first round, but we can make things very difficult for our opponent. I think we’re the squad no upper team wants a piece of.
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