The first two weeks of the NBA season are no longer.
by Seth on Oct 10, 2011 11:01 PM EDT
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PrintButtocks. Here's the key bit from Ken Berger's evening of tweets:
Stern: I'm sorry to report ... that the first 2 wks of the season have been canceled.
From ESPN, here's what that means for the Knicks:
Sources tell me they would have gone 7-0 in that stretch. This is some bullshit. In a way, I'm just relieved to not be dreading the first bad news anymore. At times, the wait for word from the negotiation table has felt like a long, sloppy basketball game feels. The kind you know well, where you've almost accepted a loss, and would happily just run out the clock if there wasn't the slimmest, flimsiest shave of a chance of a winning end, and even a win would make you kind of queasy.
This sucks, and it feels as if it's going to linger, but we ought to do our very best to enjoy ourselves and occupy the basketball-processing parts of our brains, hearts, and genitals. I suspect that we will succeed.
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I'm still tremendously pissed
But I’ve done most of hateful ranting on the lockout open thread. Now I bottle these leftover emotions until a cashier hands me incorrect change.
Realistically, what do we think our record would be over those seven games?
I think we could have gone 6-1, with a tough loss at Atlanta, but a 4-3 record should have been easy. It sucks that we lose a home game against the Thunder and Heat.
Stainer of mountaintops.
NAW I would have been worried about the Milwaukee game and the Utah game
It seems like we haven’t won in either of those buildings since Ewing was wearing shorty shorts and sporting a high top fade!
by Robert Curre on Oct 11, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I can recall a win in Milwaukee not too too long ago
I remember Jamal hit a big 3 in the final minute or so to put us up. I also recall it snapping an 8-game losing streak….
Look at our next 7 games
Lets cancel those!
Dear god
MSG better get used to hosting hockey, cause that’s all she’s good for until December.
Stainer of mountaintops.
by Chairman Meow on Oct 10, 2011 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
ugly
Hey, last shortened season we made the finals! Maybe it is redemption….thanks half full glass!
by Phillip P on Oct 11, 2011 12:26 AM EDT via iPhone app reply actions
This blows..
This is not what Toney Douglas would do. Pray that this lock-out nonsense gets resolved.. Pray.
DWTDD Presses the steal button!
Did this dude just did this?
Why let the facts get in the way when your name is David Stern
An example by czar stern of how owner’s “made concession after concession.”
Instead of a hard cap:
- a luxury tax of $2 for every $1 for teams that stray above the tax threshold
- a luxury tax of $3 for every $1 for teams that stray beyond the tax line three times in a five-season span
- a luxury tax of $4 for every $1 for teams that stray beyond the tax line five straight seasons.
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals."
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Franchise Tag: Enabling Incompetent Owners to remain imcompetent"
"Contenders do; pretenders give excuses why they did not"
"Yes everybody does have an opinion; but that does not make your opinion any less wrong"
"That ought to stop your bitchin"
Where did you hear this? This F'real?
If so, then NOW I know why the owners aren’t budging,
by Landry for prez on Oct 11, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Did Stern really say that the owners made concessions?
Unbelievable. That’s like me saying to my employee, “I want to reduce your salary from $57,000 to $46,000, plus enact rules which make it harder for me to hire people that can actually help you. So don’t come to work tomorrow unless you accept those terms”.
-two months later-
“Ok, how about $47,000?”
-a week later-
“How about 48? Ok, 50, and I’ll only enact half of the rules I wanted to enact. No? Jeez, I’m making tons of concessions here! You’re being totally unreasonable!”
((Shout warning))
OFFERING TO TAKE AWAY LESS IS NOT MAKING A CONCESSION!!!!! THE PLAYERS ARE THE ONLY ONES MAKING CONCESSIONS HERE!!!!
Fuck those owners, or at least the ones that are being hard line about this. I hope they are penniless and living on the street someday.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
The owners are full of shit
And they didn’t truly make any concessions, but I don’t think the luxury tax system is that unfair. The proposed cap for that was $70 mil, which is pretty high and more than enough to build a team with. Also, it’d still be the same as the previous CBA: the owners that want to win will pay luxury tax because the benefits of having a contending team outweight those of spending under the cap
WSD, The owners were not proposing a 70 Million dollar cap.
What they were saying was that the Luxury tax threshold would be set at 70 Million. The Tax threshold and cap are not the same thing. For example the Luxury Tax Threshold for last season was 69 Million while the salary cap was 58 million.
by Robert Curre on Oct 12, 2011 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Meh
The process you describe is happening to virtually every union around the country right now. I don’t like it, but thee are the times we live in. What the NBA players union has going for it right now that the auto workers unions, for example, do not, is that even in the worst case scenario the average NBA player is still a multi-millionaire.
I'm just saying, it's why I can't feel "bad" for them
Oh no, you got screwed into being slightly less of a multi-millionaire… let me find my tiny violin. We should all have such problems.
You are right Flossy you should not feel bad for anybody in this deal except us
The two sides in this deal are arguing over how they are splitting up about 5 Billion dollars a year.
Now you Know how I stand. If I were an NBA player I would not be giving back shit. Especially when the owners are not telling the whole story, and the fact is the money I am getting was established by their own rules and their stupid decisions. Secondly, who in their right fucking mind would willingly give up hundreds of millions of Dollars.
Auto workers may give concessions because people are buying fewer cars, but people are not buying less basketball products. So why should players give anything back. If Glen Taylor lost 35 million and Jerry Buss made 87 million then Glen Taylor should be going to Jerry Buss for money.
Remember there is a player’s share and an Owner’s share of the revenue. The salary scale, raise rate, and roster size, and salary cap determine who the players share gets distributed. The owners need to talk to each other about how they disrtibute their share.
by Robert Curre on Oct 12, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
You missed the part that goes
Ok 50, but I am only going to guarantee paying you 47! You are right Fuhry you do not make concessions by demanding that someone give you more money in a negotiation. But Then David Stern thinks the average NBA fan is about as smart as a damn chimp. The only difference is we are chimps with walletts and credit cards. Maybe that is what we should do, all dress up in Chimp costumes and protest outside of Stern’s office.
by Robert Curre on Oct 12, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
:(
If it doesn't matter who wins or loses, then why do they keep score?
~ Vince Lombardi
by JETSFANF0RLYF3 on Oct 11, 2011 10:39 AM EDT reply actions 5 recs
This is some bullshit
I swear to god if I start seeing stupid “Those thugs need to just take the deal and play. They’re all overpaid anyway!” posts I’m gonna lose my shit. WHAT ARE YOU DOING STERN.
Fish Fingers give me a break.
by GAx on Oct 11, 2011 11:04 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Both sides need to compromise at this point. I'm not sure what the exact details are, but they need to get it fixed for the sake of the little guy who relies on his seasonal MSG gig.
by Landry for prez on Oct 11, 2011 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Let's just review:
The CBA expired.
The owners locked out the players seeking a better deal.
The players offered to reduce their share of BRI from 57 percent to 53 percent and reduce the length of the mid-level.
The owners said, no, we want you to give up more.
What the owners are doing is not compromising, it’s bullying. All they are negotiating is the incremental extent of their bullying.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
If the little guy had sense He realized that there was a lockout months ago, and he already made
other arrangements or he is collecting unemployment.
by Robert Curre on Oct 12, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
what Thugs, compared to the NFL for example NBA players are choir boys!
Just look at this lockout. There have been 3 players arrested and all three are the usual Knuckleheads, Beasley, Big Ben Wallace (although I thought he had finally put that behind him, Dude used to get arrested every other week when he was a Wizard), and simple ass Matt Barnes. During the NFL lockout 64 players were arrested and twelve face felony charges!
by Robert Curre on Oct 11, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly. I'm right with you man.
Just saying a lot of pseudo-racist shit starts coming out whenever people talk about the NBA. I’m starting to not buy the line of reasoning that “NFL/NHL players all cover their faces during play but the NBA is right there” anymore either. Fans know who’s starting what and what they look like.
Fish Fingers give me a break.
Plus the NBA keeps taking back whatever concessions they supposedly made
They went to 50? No, back to 47. No hard cap? Oh, but there’s this ridiculous tax that’s effectively a hard cap. Other leagues don’t have such a low share for the players.
What’s fair is no guaranteed contracts, 53%, increased revenue sharing related to tv contracts. What do other people think?
No guaranteed contracts is a non starter
The only sport that gets away with that is the NFL and that is only because players face threat of career ending injuries on every play. And even the NFL has had to go to partially guaranteed contracts.
The second reason that the NFL can do it and the NBA cannot is because Basketball now more than ever is tied to who is on the team not the team itself. Greenbay Packer fans root for the Packers, Steeler fans root for the Steelers regardless of who is on the team. A Steeler fan does not particularly care if every season the starting left guard is cut with three years remaining on his contract because the team just drafted a Guard in the first round or that their starting left corner back is a different guy every year. NBA rosters are smaller and there is more of a personal connection as to who is on the team.
Also the NBA is more about player individual talent than football is for example. Football is more about system and scheme than individual talent and therefore it is easier to maintain a level of play. The Patriots and the Steelers are examples of teams that routinely jettison starters every year and stay on top. That is because it is how well a player fits those teams systems not his overall talent that matters. The NBA you can’t do that and compete.
The Celtics can’t say well Rondo is getting expensive so let’s cut him because we drafted E’Twaun Moore and just start Moore at point guard. Chances are if they did that they would not be as competitive a team.
Lastly, the issue about the contracts is really more about bad decision making by owners and the men they hire to run their teams. Isiah Thomas traded for Eddy Curry and gave him a huge contract extension. It is not Curry’s fault that Isiah and there staff did not due their due diligence. The Charlotte Bobcats knew Emeka Okafor seriously underwhelmed during the 4 years he was on his rookie contract. There was not a gun put to Michael Jordan and then Owner Robert Johnson’s heads when they offered Okafor that 5 year 65 Million dollar contract. Nor did George Shinn have a gun to his head when he okayed his GM trading for Okafor’s ridiculous contract. Guarantees are not the problem it is GM’s and Owners offering ridiculous contracts and trading for those same contracts. There is already a mechanism in place to protect owners from bad contracts the option. For example the Rod Thorn new that Vince carter was going to be 35 when the 5 year contract he signed him to expired, so he made the last season a team option. If Vince no longer had the goods, you decline to pick up his option and his contract comes off your books.
by Robert Curre on Oct 12, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
NBA players have career threatening injuries as well
Maybe it’s not every game, but a pretty good chance each year of injury. Peyton Manning hurts his neck, Brandon Roy/Amar’e/Greg Oden hurt their knees. Yao Ming/ Big Z hurt their feet. Brian Scalabrine had a ton of concussions.
Yes but NBA owners can get insurance on player contracts NFL owners cannot .
Non-guaranteed contracts for the NBA really are owners saying “Help my GM is an idiot and I am too big a fool to supervise him.” Players should not have to compensate for owners making poor hiring decisions. The job of the owner is to hiring competent people to run the team. If the owner hires an idiot and then does not properly supervise how he is spending the teams money, that is a failure on the part of the owner, not the players.
by Robert Curre on Oct 12, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Cancel The Rest Of the Season
How great it would be going into the 2012 with only C.Anthony, A.Stoudemire, R.Balkman and T.Douglas on the books for a total of $41,073,799.00.
Oh I did forget to mention that D’Antoni and his undeachieving staff are also done.
Now Commissioner David Stern have the balls to cancel the whole 2011 season. This way us Knicks fans don’t have to suffer another season with the garbagge we have and get on to putting together a future contender in 2012.
First priority D.Williams/PG
Make some package deal with money to trade A.Stoudemire and money to L.A. for B.Griffin. Yes everybody thinks I am crazy.
I do have the deal that could make this work.
So now we have a 1,3, and a 4 in place.
Make a one time serious offer for RFA/M.Gasol.
Give away a future 2015 number one pick to Memphis for O.J.Mayo.
Memphis does not want or need another player on payroll for they have to try to keep their money down with what they have. This could work for both teams.
Resign L.Fields, B.Walker, S.Williams as backup rotation players.
Now if we cannot sign D.Williams then go after R.Felton as a F/A to bring back.
I know crazy as it sounds, however, not out of the realm of possibilities.
So much wrong here
If the Clippers are over the cap, you can’t just trade them money to even out the money. Plus, they would never ever ever ever do that trade.
So since they are stuck with 41 million in salaries and have maybe 9 million free, they can’t sign Deron Williams and Marc Gasol. Not even one of them, considering they have to fill out the rest of a team. Your time would be better spent looking at salary cap rules, since most of them will probably be the same whenever a new collective bargaining agreement is done.
L.A.Clippers
No I did not say just trade money for Griffin.
I said we will trade maybe Stoudemire plus extra cash along with maybe taking back some junk.
I know
I said include money to even the salaries involved. The Knicks would have to trade Amare for Blake and probably Kaman and others. The Clippers still wouldn’t do it, and the Knicks would still not have any money to sign anyone else. Really, look at the rules before commenting again.
Sterling would never agree to take on an uninsured contract.
Plus league rules State that even for 2 teams under the cap the Difference in Salaries for a player trade cannot exceed 9 million. amare Makes 12 Million more than Blake. So the teams would have to trade within 1.2 Million Dollars in Salaries. Which means to get Blake we would have to take back a Minimum of 17.8 in salaries. Also The Knicks would have 45 million not 41 in salaries because that number does not include Douglas’ option which you clearly pick up, nor Shumpert’s guaranteed contract. So your plan falls flat there. Now because we are under the cap if you want Blake, then the only way it can be done with out a 120% salary match is a trade exception. The Clips give us Blake in return we give them an exception in the Value of his contract. We can also give Sterling some cash. Now this won’t happen but that is the only two ways you can get your hands on Blake under league rules.
by Robert Curre on Oct 12, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
True, when you say Sterling, that says it all!
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals."
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Franchise Tag: Enabling Incompetent Owners to remain imcompetent"
"Contenders do; pretenders give excuses why they did not"
"Yes everybody does have an opinion; but that does not make your opinion any less wrong"
"That ought to stop your bitchin"
what do you mean "us Knick fans"?
Don’t you mean “us Knicks/Nets fans who want to install Christian Laettner as our Head Coach”? At least know your target audience. And stop making ridiculous trades proposals please.
Fish Fingers give me a break.
you know what else is not out of the realm of possibilities?
EVERYTHING.
"Practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect."
Deron Williams?
I thought it was CP3 who was coming to the Knicks?
by Guess Who's Back? on Oct 11, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
You already have him on the NYETS
Besides who is gonna pass Wilson Chandler the ball When the NYEts sign him for 12 mil and he becomes an All Star.
by Robert Curre on Oct 12, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Wilson Chandler is an all-star in NBA 2k12
Fuck Y…
, and so are Terrence Williams, Yi, and other scrubs
..eeaaahh. Hm.
Fish Fingers give me a break.
Why would Felton leave a playoff team in Portland to join a rebuild
especially since Portland traded for him to be their long term solution at point guard. I think the NYETS may have to look elsewhere. Hey Rafer Alston is available and he is from Brooklyn!
by Robert Curre on Oct 13, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Thinking Small
R.Felton is a free agent next year. He can go anywhere he wants. Portland is good howevr, R.Felton would have a better chance winning the weak east conference with th Knicks.
Did Felton take a contract extension w/Portland?
I don’t remember. But it is a good fit for him.
I agree, if he’s still a FA next year he’d be good to bring back to NY
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals."
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Franchise Tag: Enabling Incompetent Owners to remain imcompetent"
"Contenders do; pretenders give excuses why they did not"
"Yes everybody does have an opinion; but that does not make your opinion any less wrong"
"That ought to stop your bitchin"
Trade/FA
If not mistaken, R.Felton was traded to Portland with the same expiring contract.
He did say something like he would like to sign a new contract with Portland.
So the fact is he is just saying positive things in order to keep his negotiating options open as a FA.
I am sure he would love to come back to NYC and run the show.
He is a West Virgina guy whom comes humble and with a strong work ethic.
I couldn’t care less if R.Felton signed with the Brooklynettes if it mean the Knicks were signing D.Williams.
Also D.Ziedzic is a stuttering buffoon.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Oct 14, 2011 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
We become a threat and they start cancelling games.
I will nothing to look forward to after a hard days work. Guess I’ll have to start watching college ball more.
Here's the latest Stern-ism
From NBA.com
http://www.nba.com/2011/news/10/13/lockout-stern/?ls=iref:nbahpt1
I ultimately would like a positive resolution that’s smart for both sides. But a part of me would really enjoy Stern getting a bitch-slap. He’s still skating on the Air-Jordan momentum and refuses to take responsibility for his failings (Spencer Haywood suit, post-Jordan years, the 1999 lockout, the 2011 lockout). And when anyone tries to hold him accountable they suddenly are no longer allowed access to his short-ness (yeah, I played the Napoleaon syndrom card!!!)
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals."
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Franchise Tag: Enabling Incompetent Owners to remain imcompetent"
"Contenders do; pretenders give excuses why they did not"
"Yes everybody does have an opinion; but that does not make your opinion any less wrong"
"That ought to stop your bitchin"
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