Lockout Open Fred: 11/14/11
by Seth on Nov 14, 2011 1:44 PM EST
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PrintUpdate: Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit.
The union is about to hold a press conference.
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i refuse to look at nba.com
havent gone on it since the lockout started and wont til basketball is intact
by blackhova on Nov 15, 2011 9:39 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
welp
"It was one of those good, deep sleeps; you know, the ones where you wake up and a stream of drool is steadily racing down your shirt? Yes, that kind of sleep." -Landry Fields
by Thelonious Dunk on Nov 14, 2011 1:58 PM EST reply actions
fuckin dziedzic
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Nov 14, 2011 2:21 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
Makes perfect sense
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
Can't say I'm surprised
The more I thought about it, the more I thought that the 50/50 revenue split would likely result in a 10 percent or more drop in player salaries on contracts that have already been signed. On top of that, the owners wanted to severely curtail teams in luxury tax territory from making any signings. Also, they were looking to reduce the maximum length of contracts and raise the minimum age to 20. It’s crazy the amount of concessions the owners are demanding. Still, the players have tried to play ball with them, only to be hit with an ultimatum.
I agree with a lot of the structural changes, like amnesty and reduction in max contract length. But at the end of the day, the NBA is convinced that they can replicate what happened in the NHL and that’s what they’re trying to do. The players have to figure out a way to make the result different. That means making players money somehow so that the desperation doesn’t set in. I hope they can do it.
Sucks to not have a season, but all I can say is Fuck Sarver, Jordan, Allen and the rest of the hardline owners. I hope they are left with nothing but bankruptcy.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
Fuhry, you forgot to remove your NBAPA Spokesperson Id card from your breast pocket.
For the 1 million time: Players have made concession after concession with little give back from the owners because 1)The last deal was pro-union 57 percent revenue to the players and Rashard Lewis’s of the world making 117 over 5. 2)The economic climate of the world has adversely changed.
No body put a gun to the Owner of the Magic's head and made him pay Rashard that money
He chose to do so his damnself. Infact Orlando outbide themselves to sign Lewis. Don’t blame Lewis blame the fucking owner. If Dolan offered you 117 million over 5 years, I am sure you would sign the contract even though you probably suck.
by Robert Curre on Nov 14, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Not to mention the players got that percentage because of all the other givebacks they made that year.
Then the owners couldn’t control their own spending and here we are. As much of waste of a contract the Eddy Currys of the league were, the boneheaded decisions/signings from owners would greatly outnumber those type of dead fish.
You’re a Republican aren’t you, baba?
Fish Fingers give me a break.
Sorry Gax - that last line really means nothing. I'm not Rep, either, so you're
not offending me, but still
Sorry I guess I'll just keep the political jokes inside my head.
Most of my posts here are done with a sardonic grin so I guess it didn’t come across correctly. Sorry guys. baba I still love you like a red-headed stepson. C’mere..
Fish Fingers give me a break.
Its a classic case of if you dont give me X i will sign somewhere else for less. Technically your right. Nobody forces the owners to do anything..
But a team’s profitability is entirely based on putting a winning product on the court, especially for small market teams like Orlando, so even getting a guy that can drain 3s and rebound still costs alot of money under the rules of the CBA. What they are trying to change are the rules that determine how much a player is allowed to ask for. Nothing criminal about this.
Your the one claiming crime. Dude
and in the Lewis case you are wrong Seattle (yes they were still the soncis then) didn’t want him and really no other teams were pursuing him. PLus Lewis had two good years there. Injuries not ability made him seem not worth the money. And again if owners want a system where players don’t get injured, here is an idea, own a video game team!
by Robert Curre on Nov 14, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
i dont think the issue with Lewis was injuries. He just flat out not worth his contract.
And i dont think owners sign 9 figure contracts if their are no competitive bids.
Who else was pushing up the bids on Rashard Lewis? Or Allan Houston?
Owners can be idiots. GM’s can be idiots. This isn’t news.
Fish Fingers give me a break.
i read somewhere
that orlando offered almost 20 million more than any other team. they believed rashard was the key addition that would have made them a contender. if it worked out and he was borderline all star in orlando (he certainly was in seattle) i don’t think orlando would have had much trouble making the conference finals the past three years at the very least.
/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \
You are right Stingy Orlando offered more than the Lakers not only in money
but also in years. LA wanted him but for only 3 years.
by Robert Curre on Nov 14, 2011 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
in the 3 seasons previous to coming to Orlando
Lewis averaged 20.5, 20.1, and 22.4. points per game. He was named to the All Star team twice in those 3 years. So Orlando thought they were getting an all-star caliber player. For what it is worth he averaged 18.2 pts and 17.7 pts his first two years in Orlando, then he started struggling with nagging injuries and his numbers declined drastically.
by Robert Curre on Nov 14, 2011 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
Has it been a million times already? my how time flies
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals."
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Franchise Tag: Enabling Incompetent Owners to remain imcompetent"
"Contenders do; pretenders give excuses why they did not"
"Yes everybody does have an opinion; but that does not make your opinion any less wrong"
"That ought to stop your bitchin"
"And, please remember, ignorance is not a defense"
There were 3 people wearing Knicks stuff in my Polisci class today
Which seems like a lot for being in Michigan. We all were lamenting the lack of basketball.
Taiwan's Number 1 Wolverine fan.
dammmmnnnnnnnnnn
on the bright side, maybe we’ll get to put together a sweet ass roster one the league exists again?
Paul
Me
Melo
Amare
Dwight
Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate
by knickswin on Nov 14, 2011 2:28 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Paul and Dwight? must be an uncapped year!
And if it is not capped you are right you will have to play, as well as Seth, Dizzy, Bubbachuck, and myself coming off the bench!
by Robert Curre on Nov 14, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
And some slam-dunking midgets
We need a few on the bench.
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
Hmm.. how do you un-rec?
Because I believe if I flag this comment I’d be going too far.
DWTDD Presses the steal button!
Did this dude just did this?
I just can't get that into college ball until the tourney
they’re just . . . not as good at basketball as NBA players.
Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate
by knickswin on Nov 14, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
the level of talent
is obviously no where in the same vicinity but the quality of team play is far better. They play the right way and you can tell how bad these kids want it. Most of them are playing out the end of their “basketball life”
by Slappinfaces on Nov 14, 2011 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
the coaching is definitely better in college ball. I watched the UNC / Michigan State game on Friday and those guys on Michigan State were attacking the post harder than any current NBA player I can think of. Unfortunately, they also had absolutely no touch and couldn’t shoot free throws . . . so it was nice though, no cigar.
Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate
I understand where you're coming from
People make fun of me for only watching the NBA but I can’t help it; I enjoy NBA basketball much more than college. Partly because the players just are much better, even if they don’t necessarily give a shit as much as college players do
there are some NBA teams I hate watching because they play ugly basketball
but teams like the Lakers or this year’s Mavericks are pure joy for me to watch. I think the Knicks have been one of the most aesthetically pleasing teams
Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate
this past year that is
Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate
Even when the Knicks sucked
I still enjoyed watching them.
I loved watching the Mavs this past year. The Jazz were a joy when they had Sloan, D-Will, Boozer, AK47, Korver, etc. I always liked watching the Celtics too, even though I despise them. And marquee matchups on Sunday afternoons on ABC and the like are always great.
This season I was really looking forward to watching the Blazers with Felton playing PG. I was kinda looking forward to the Jazz too because of how much young talent they have.
Fuck. no season is gonna suck
I know right.
There is not a team in the league that doesn’t have an interesting storyline right now. Except for maybe Detroit.
college ball
where the players and the owners have the deal that the nba owners WISH they coudl have.
/// aighttho.com \\/// twitter.com/aighttho \\
by stingy d on Nov 14, 2011 3:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Shakes head..
So true. Sad for those kids though..
DWTDD Presses the steal button!
Did this dude just did this?
This some ol' bullshit..
If it was as easy as jotting down these words, take the fuckin’ “disclaimer” out and let’s have us an NBA season.
DWTDD Presses the steal button!
Did this dude just did this?
still can't understand for the life of me what would happen if the courts hypothetically sided with the players.
Can anyone explain. Would they force the owners to extend the last CBA, would they write a new one themselves they would consider legally fair, allow open free agency without any limits?
Triple damages. means that Amare would get paid 60 mil in 2012
All free agents would get paid 3 times their last salaries by their old teams. and then they could still go someplace else. The Bobcats would contract as well as the Hornets because they don’t have that kind of scratch. We’d get Paul, Okafor, and Dj Augustin as back ups, pretty much win for us!
by Robert Curre on Nov 14, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
That's the question
Can the NBA players somehow avoid the fate of the NHL players? They must have a plan, because the NBA’s plan is to break them similarly.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
Gentlemen, this is the sum of all fears.
SPEND ON BIGS
by StarksMiddleFinger on Nov 14, 2011 2:37 PM EST reply actions
Assuming there's no season
We’ll probably just become a general-interest blog. Hope y’all stick around.
Well how about a blog about... On second thought ... How old are you again Seth?
by Robert Curre on Nov 14, 2011 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
Then we will not turn this into a Porn Blog. We could always blog about the backyardigans!
by Robert Curre on Nov 14, 2011 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
Naw the backyard buddies are way cooler!
Besides I can’t help thinking Barney is some pedophile in a purple dinosaur suit!
by Robert Curre on Nov 14, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
he meant 9 1/2 Weeks. He already knew where you were going with this, Rob.
Fish Fingers give me a break.
I find it hard enough to bitch and moan through the regular offseason.
I can’t do a whole year. We’re screwed.
SPEND ON BIGS
by StarksMiddleFinger on Nov 14, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
I request more poop infused writing
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Focus on college basketball?
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
that is so sad
Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate
we could write screenplays
Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate
The question is
Do we follow the exploits of the former Knicks players, or do we follow the exploits and prospects of a new NY area franchise of a new league?
I say probably both. Oh, and mammals. There’s always mammals.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
On a serious note
We could do music related stuff. Everybody here seems to enjoy chiming in about music, and I remember over the past season there was even a fanpost about it.
I read and comment on other music sites too, but generally the people are incredibly unfunny despite their best efforts, and kinda just pompous douchebags. I prefer the crowd here much more!
so we can discuss
how sexy that girl in Pomplamoose is????
by blackhova on Nov 15, 2011 9:57 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Cheer up! I am planning to watch kentucky vs North Carolina in a few weeks, hell since their will be about 9 NBA players on the court it will feel almost like the real thing. We can also get a look at our new coach,
by Robert Curre on Nov 14, 2011 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
if john calipari becomes the knicks head coach, I'm a clippers fan
Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate
Hey I didn't name Calipari, I could have meant Roy Williams
And you mean you are not a Clippers fan already? LOL
by Robert Curre on Nov 14, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
Im too lazy to start a thread on what this means for the Knicks....
But Im guessing that a flex cap means bye bye Amare. He will get amnestied because there is no way your building a competitive team with 40 million going to 2 players under a hard cap that will likely be in the 55-60 million dollar range.
Stern claims that all contracts will be voided
Maybe they will have a fantasy league-style draft once everything starts back up.
Stern is talking out his backside, he will do what the judge tells him to do and thats it.
by Robert Curre on Nov 14, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
Stern's done
I predict he retires. I have trouble believing he wanted this.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
You can't expect to make a a threat and not be forced to go through with it if your opponent is forcing you.
If the owners are as hardline as the reporters say they are then all he did was act out on behalf of their interests, at least most of them. Fact is league wanted a salvageable season and to get that in time they needed to issue ultimatums. How else could Stern have done it?
The opponent is forcing you??
By not taking the shitty deal you’re offering and refusing to kowtow to the threat of “The next deal will be WORSE. It’d be wise to take this deal” the players forced the owners’ hand?
Wow.
Fish Fingers give me a break.
GAx, listen I know your pro-Rashard and pro-Wesley Matthews.
Understand we see the same thing just different perspective. Union wanted to maintain Wild West rules for free agency and player contracts and goble more than 50 percent of revenues while calling themselves “partners.” Owners said this is coming to an end because 22 of us are losing money. Deal with it.
What does Pro-Rashard and Pro-Wesley Matthews mean??
I guess part of our divide is you actually believe that 22 of them lost money, or that losing money on a business during the 2nd worst recession in our nation’s history is a reason to pull the bullshit the owners have pulled during negotiations.
Fish Fingers give me a break.
But isnt a recession is a legitmate reason to demand more of your employees cut(btw i dont think it is for people that make 45K a year)?
Isn’t that whats going on around the country, state governments cutting pensions off of public employees who can barely afford to make ends meet as is. “Aw poor players the average of whom make 5 million a year. They’ve given so much already.” Unbelievable, some of you.
And the employees gave back enough in BRI% to cover the supposed losses the owners suffered in these terrible times. This is ignoring the fact that these same players are also, you know, living through the same recession.
I mean…do you realize that in the same post you just tried to engender sympathy for the losses MULTI-BILLIONAIRES take while pooh-poohing the sacrifices players make because they make an avg of $5million a year?
I’m with you, man. Some people around here…unbelievable.
Fish Fingers give me a break.
If by "win" you mean continuously repeating yourself by using Union talking points that..
will fail miserably in court…..then yes you did win.
Yes
but if the NBA acts as one business, it has a monopoly on professional basketball in this country. If there was another employer in this country for professional basketball players, the players could possibly get a better deal from the other employer, which limits the amount the NBA can squeeze the players.
And that’s just the players need. Another basketball league. Without that, the owners are just going to squeeze them and squeeze them.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
gross, baba.
It seems like you think that whatever cutthroat stuff the owners do to increase their profits or to survive their poor decisions is justified, but players are not allowed to exercise the same right because they already make a few million dollars. WTF?
I know that you will just keep arguing ad infinitum so there’s really no point.
Basically, if the success of your business is contingent on your employees giving up 7 percent of their pay and a bunch of their rights every 10 years, that is a very risky business because people have pride, and competitors will arise to offer them a better deal. If you paid a half a billion dollars for the right to try to squeeze employees for a living, you deserve everything you get.
The owners deserve to feel the consequences of overpaying for their franchises and making bad decisions and relying on squeezing their employees to stay afloat. And the consequence is: a new league that competes with the NBA and causes several of the NBA’s franchises to collapse into bankruptcy, if not the whole league itself.
Mark my words. That’s all I have to say on the subject.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
Well, thats why its a good thing its gotten to this point. Let the courts decide, because 90 percent of your argument is subjective.
“squeezing,” “overpaying for franchises,” “economic climate then and now” “poor decisions.” They are all buzz words that will be determinative of the outcome of the forthcoming proceedings.
At the end of the day we are talking about a form of entertainment
that we the general public support to the tune of Billions that players who are on average millionaires because we spend billions, get to divide with men several of whom are billionaires because we spend billions, regardless of who gets what the money still comes out of my pocket to pay them both!
by Robert Curre on Nov 14, 2011 5:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And secondly,
the pro-player argument is entirely moot because if the rank-and-file were allowed to vote for this “god-awful” deal they would have voted for it. I know its a radical concept: all union members actually making the most critical decisions of the union.
I doubt that, but pundits on both sides have said both things so who knows.
Fish Fingers give me a break.
You are making assumptions.
At least 50 of the 450 NBA players unanimously voted to not accept the deal. I think it’s a stretch to insist the other that 226 of the remaining 400 union members would have voted for the deal.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
fuhry you know better. Its like the mafia. nobody wants to be identified as a rat or turncoat.
And secondly didnt Chris Duhon tweet that he’d vote for the deal. Probably the only one with guts.
You compare labor unions to the mafia
My grandfather, who was a union man all his life, is giving you the finger from his grave.
Unions are like people rising up against bullies, like the mafia, like monopolies. They vote to give their leaders the power to negotiate for them. So many decent wages and workers’ rights can be traced to unions trusting their leaders to hold the line.
You can have your opinion and you will. It sucks that the Knicks aren’t playing basketball.
But the truth remains: You don’t knuckle under to a bully. That’s some Neville Chamberlain shit right there. No thanks.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
wait a sec, dont misinterpret my words.
1) I am pro-union when the unions in question are organizations comprised of people that need the union to support their families. Not basketball players the average of which make 5 million a year.
2)This players “union” is mafia-like. How do you not let your actual members vote on a deal if you know its the last best one the owners will offer. There really is no LOGICAL reason for refusing to do so. Just pride and power. The roots of all evil.
3) No mafia in unions? Ever head of Jimmy Hoffa?
You do realize that this is a lockout and not a strike right Baba
The players did not force Stern to do anything, he and the owners forced them. And as for what he could do is negotiate in good faith. Where the NBA owners may be in trouble if this gets into court, is their ability to prove that they met the threshold for negotiating in good faith. There is a very good chance that they have not. Which if they haven’t then a judge has two options:
Option 1: demand both sides get back to the table and work out a deal prior to a ruling. What happened with the NFL.
Option 2: Declare the lockout ended and award damages to the players.
Stern and the owners did not want the players to de-certify because their case is a lot weaker than the NFL owners. They are demanding major concessions and the players already conceded 700 million in BRI a year, with one side going that far and a deal not getting done it will be hard for the owners to claim they have negotiated in good faith. Not saying they couldn’t and there is always a chance they get a judge who is pro owners, but I am saying it is more dangerous for the owners at this point than the players.
by Robert Curre on Nov 14, 2011 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
Bob, your also forgetting that the nba Owners position is arguably stronger than their NFL Counterparts for one simple reason:
22 of 30 nba teams lost money, and only the Lions did in the NFL. The court’s standard of fairness is far and away alot looser than the average notion of fairness. What they will not do is negotiate on behalf of either the players or owners.
They say they are losing money
But have yet to produce the documents showing that they are.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
I believe that they are
And I think the Union believed them as well. I think the numbers are skewed a little bit, but I think it’s accepted that they really are losing money.
The players pretty willingly went from 57% to 54% and then down to 53% just on numbers alone
Like my brother from another mother said below me, the league did submit their cash flow and income statements to prove money losses for those designated teams.
The union said the numbers were “skewed.” At the end of the day, neither party will get to determine what the facts are. It will be the courts and if the owners felt their financial statements couldn’t withstand judicial scrutiny then I don’t think they would have goaded the players to decertifying, which they now clearly are.
I think the owners hoped they would just accept the deal
and not decertify, but I could be wrong about that. Maybe the NBA wants to void all contracts and start over again.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
See now
I think that your average cop is way less of a pussy than Dan Gilbert.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
Did you just write that Dan Gilber is a Pussy Cop
I’m rolling on that one!!!
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals."
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Franchise Tag: Enabling Incompetent Owners to remain imcompetent"
"Contenders do; pretenders give excuses why they did not"
"Yes everybody does have an opinion; but that does not make your opinion any less wrong"
"That ought to stop your bitchin"
"And, please remember, ignorance is not a defense"
cash flow and income statements can be altered. when you decertify you remove the antitrust exemption and by definition are required to “show the books” if i understand it correctly.
that’s why all sides use it as the nuclear option since all hell can break loose. the owners are better off claiming losses then having to actually prove them. if Deadspin taught us anything balance sheets can be altered using creative accounting. They turned a 7 mil profit into a 28 mil loss in 2004 for the Nets.
And the players have already given back enough BRI to cover those losses
and then some. What the owners want is a guarantee that they will make money, and you cannot claim to be negotiating in faith when you do that. The owners have themselves to blame, when they moved to revenue sharing they created this problem. Basketball players used to be employees like baseball players are. They share revenue which means they owners have to get an agreement out of them.
by Robert Curre on Nov 14, 2011 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
"Guarantee they will make money," is debatable and sounds like a Union talking point.
Yes its true the BRI giveback does cover 90 percent of those losses but everything else the are negotiating is about “competitive balance issues.” Owners are not banning free agency or trades. They are trying to structure them in ways that foster competitive balance between small, medium and large markets. I don’t think this would meet the court’s probable standard of a clear violation of “good faith” negotiation on the part of owners.
The owners got a loooootttt of movement from the players
I mean, remember, the owners locked out the players and demanded concessions. The players gave them plenty of concessions. I think it’s the owners intent to destroy the union’s power and get them to take a crappy deal like the NHL players took. That doesn’t sound like ‘good faith’ to me. I think you could make the case that the owners didn’t want a deal at all – they want to tank a season, not paying the players anything, to get them so desperate they sign a deal that brings things back to the days before free agency.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
Baba the owners cannot ban free agency, there is a Supreme court ruling that guarantees it
and not even David Stern fucks with the supreme court!
by Robert Curre on Nov 14, 2011 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
Okay then I misspoke.
But the point is that I dont think the offer the league emailed to the Times was unduly oppressive in player movement. Alot of players agreed, just couldnt voice it. And besides, doesnt the union hurt their argument by making all these concessions. Because what they are logically implying is that their is an economic need to place the fulcrum back to the center of the lever. The Courts wont use tax dollars they dont even have to help one party or the other push the fulcrum a few centimeters to either the right or left. Because the exegencies of the situation don’t require their involvement. We are not talking about police and fire. We are talking about millionaires vs. billionaires.
Actually there's a lot of language in there that effectively creates a hard cap.
Adam Silver himself said player movement would have to be restricted. I also don’t know why you keep asserting so surely that a majority of the union is unhappy with this decision and would have just signed the deal.
As for the courts, I don’t think they’d dismiss this case because “lol sports lol”. Congress got involved during MLB’s labor issues. The NFL just had their own legal saga through the courts. This is another thing I don’t understand why you keep asserting so surely.
Fish Fingers give me a break.
Actually those 2 sports are bad examples
1)Congress didn’t get involved in “labor issues.” It got involved in one solitary manageable issue Drug Testing. Very easy. You can get randomnly tested for dope if you are a ballplayer. Not complicated.
2)NFL lockout was enjoined. Then reversed on appeal(The corrrection decision). Reverse, Mr Gax means that the NFL lockout is not something the courts should resolve because it is very complicated and involves a very wide spectrum of facts and information. Thus the appeals court determined inconclusively that this is something that should be decided between the parties in the lol sport lol.
How old are you again? Not mocking, just curious.
I ask because
1)Since we’re talking about a work stoppage and labor issues here, I thought it was obvious I was talking about the ‘94 MLB strike. Congress AND the President got involved. Not like Obama’s “Damn this lockout sucks. Hey guys I’m a Bulls fan!” but more Clinton going “Hey jackasses let’s see some negotiating huh? Yeah? Please?”
2) The NFL’s cases and appeals could have gone on a lot longer if the players had had had the stomach for the lengthy process. Once that injunction was overturned and if they chose to appeal the 8th Circuit’s decision, it would have been a year minimum for a decision. And the NFL STILL even after that negotiated in better faith than anything the NBA has demonstrated in two years of negotiations.
The point of bringing up both sports was to show that these dismissive statements you make about how the NBPA is wasting everyone’s time and taxpayer money(??) taking this to court was off. These things have happened before, are happening now, and will almost definitely happen again as the pool of money for owners and players in any sport to fight over continues to grow. Freaking Congress and the President got involved in MLB’s strike. I actually think that really was kind of a farce, but hey what’re you gonna do.
You should read the leaked deal the NBA most recently offered that just got rejected. It’s pretty bullshit, especially if you connect several purposely far-flung dots together(incredibly punitive luxury tax+envisioned limited cap with a minimum only the Kings last year wouldn’t have met+a bunch more stuff I don’t feel like summarizing for you right now=effectively a hard cap that we shouldn’t be trusting the owners to utilize to compete to the fullest anyway.
Fish Fingers give me a break.
but....sir
1)Why do you insist on using examples that undermine your argument, such as MLB. There was NOTHING Congress was able to do about the 94 strike. Thats my POINT. No government branch has actually resolved or helped resolve a collective bargaining dispute between owners and players in any sport. They can make “noise” which is not hard, but actually facilitating a meaningful resolution is entirely another matter.
2)I used the word “inconclusively” to describe the ramifications of the 8th Circuits reversal of the enjoinment of the lockout because the the whole processes was not fully litigated due to the CBA that was eventually signed. Nonetheless the league had been winning up to that point. However it is important to note that the NFL is profitable for all but one team, the LIONs. There was a major disincentive for getting tied up in protracted litigation REGARDLESS of the outcome, which at the endpoint seemed to favor the owners anyway.
3)You dont think the NBA’s offer was fair. Alot of reporters/players did. Alot of them didnt. Does it really matter at this point?
This is turning into a pointless point-by-point drilldown. I'll just reply and if you want the last word you can have it.
Like I said, I only brought up those other sports because you said the courts wouldn’t have any interest in getting involved. I mean I can start quoting but this is already dumb enough.
You’re clearly toeing the line the owners have drawn and identify heavily with them. No problem. I only replied because I took issue with the fact that you said the latest offer wasn’t restrictive in player movement and that the courts would have no interest in getting involved in a case between the two.
See you in the next lockout/CBA thread! :D
Fish Fingers give me a break.
If you report 300 Million in Losses and the Union agrees to give you 700 million
in give backs to cover your losses I do not get where you claim they gave back 90%. Are you Stern? If you are losing 300 mil in your business and I give you 700 million to cover your losses, you cannot get salty with me and not agree simply because you wanted 800 million instead dude. That would be the owners problem in court. If they are showing 300 mil in losses and the players will give them an addition 700 mil a year, then they are guaranteed not to lose money. However, some clubs will not be guaranteed to make money and that is the problem. Owners like Glent Taylor don’t want to be guaranteed to break even. They want guarantees of profits and in business that is not possible.
by Robert Curre on Nov 14, 2011 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
Watch u talkin bout Willis?
57-50 covers 280 million…not “700”
Here is the article
Here is the passage:
“The union has gone from 57% to 50% of BRI, a $280 million difference in the first year of a new CBA. But it expects the NBA to relent on system issues — the means in which players can choose their employer and how the money is distributed to them, specifically in relation to taxpaying clubs.”
You forgot add the 430 mil per year
for operating expenses that the players agreed to give the owners off the top every season before BRI is split Arnold. 430 mil + 280 Mil = 710 Million per year in revenue being put in the owners pockets. I like the Different Strokes reference tho!
by Robert Curre on Nov 15, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
Looks like I'll be needing a new winter hobby.
Suggestions, anyone?
"It was one of those good, deep sleeps; you know, the ones where you wake up and a stream of drool is steadily racing down your shirt? Yes, that kind of sleep." -Landry Fields
by Thelonious Dunk on Nov 14, 2011 2:53 PM EST reply actions
Excellent discussion topic
For a future post at POSTING AND TOASTING, EVERYONE’S FAVORITE BLOG ABOUT THINGS THAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE THE NEW YORK KNICKS!
Do like I do, drink alot, watch college ball and have sex with the old ball and chain.
short of that I hear needlepoint is soothing.
by Robert Curre on Nov 14, 2011 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
Shouldn't you ask her first?
I know the last time I offered my wife’s sexual services to a bunch of blog readers, she was royally pissed.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things." --Jack Burton (Big Trouble in Little China) expressing in 1986 what every Knicks fan would feel twenty years later.
by LaConte on Nov 14, 2011 6:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Should've stayed away from BleacherReport.
"It was one of those good, deep sleeps; you know, the ones where you wake up and a stream of drool is steadily racing down your shirt? Yes, that kind of sleep." -Landry Fields
by Thelonious Dunk on Nov 14, 2011 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
Should've known that "Swingman" could mean something else, too.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things." --Jack Burton (Big Trouble in Little China) expressing in 1986 what every Knicks fan would feel twenty years later.
No dude you bring your own ball and chain to the party.
I aint wife swapping with you dudes unless you guys are married to some really hot women! So again, Drink alot, watch college basketball and have lots of sex with your own wife, or wives if you happen to live in Utah or Saudi Arabia! If you are reading this and you live in Kentucky replace wife with sister and keep going.
And if you are an assistant or former assistant coach for the Penn. State Nittanly Lions no sex for your at all!
by Robert Curre on Nov 15, 2011 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
Shouldn't you ask her first?
I know the last time I offered my wife’s sexual services to a bunch of blog readers went around diddling other dudes’ wives (hot or otherwise), my wife was royally pissed.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things." --Jack Burton (Big Trouble in Little China) expressing in 1986 what every Knicks fan would feel twenty years later.
learn an instrument?
Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate
although I'm guess you might know piano based on your screenname
Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate
I play a mean pots n' pans.
"It was one of those good, deep sleeps; you know, the ones where you wake up and a stream of drool is steadily racing down your shirt? Yes, that kind of sleep." -Landry Fields
by Thelonious Dunk on Nov 14, 2011 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
I may actually have to start playing basketball again.
I wish we could have a tournament against all the other SBN team blogs.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
I am down, Knees are shot to hell but
I still can spot up and Knock down threes and can throw some elbows under the boards.
by Robert Curre on Nov 14, 2011 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
i set excellent screens
Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate
I replaced the screen on my sliding patio door
And only the quickest flies get through.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
I think that if I actually hit the court
I will either have a heart attack or incur 17 injuries within 5 minutes. My knees are still good but I have Charles Oakley toe, last I checked. Still, I think if I work up to it I could play. My dad played full court up until he was about 70.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
OK
We have a nice set of collective skills here. Can anyone dribble the basketball with less than two hands?
Get The Frickin' Rebound
no, but
dribbling’s overrated
Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate
I'd be down if y'all brought the game across the river.
Unfortunately I don’t feel like paying George Washington’s Bridge $12 for the privilege of crossing over just to play ball.
Fish Fingers give me a break.
we will just be the best hustle player no talent team ever!
I mean, was Larry Bird that great at dribbling?
Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate
you think so?
I always thought part of his charm was that he was such a great scorer despite not having exceptional handle. I can’t even picture what Larry Bird shooting off the dribble looks like
Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate
And Bird was legendary in his on court trash talking
He would so get in his opponent’s head
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals."
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Franchise Tag: Enabling Incompetent Owners to remain imcompetent"
"Contenders do; pretenders give excuses why they did not"
"Yes everybody does have an opinion; but that does not make your opinion any less wrong"
"That ought to stop your bitchin"
"And, please remember, ignorance is not a defense"
I remember a Knicks story from back in the 80's
A Knicks exec is running around all excited calling out “We Got Bird” “We Got Bird”
The Bird that the Knicks just acquired was not Larry Bird; but Rory Sparrow
woo hoo that’s not funny
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals."
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Franchise Tag: Enabling Incompetent Owners to remain imcompetent"
"Contenders do; pretenders give excuses why they did not"
"Yes everybody does have an opinion; but that does not make your opinion any less wrong"
"That ought to stop your bitchin"
"And, please remember, ignorance is not a defense"
Woo Hoo, We passed on Larry Bird in the draft to take Micheal Ray Richardson
Yep the Hick from French Lick could have been a Knick!
by Robert Curre on Nov 14, 2011 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
Makes ya just sad and sick thinking it doesn't it?
though Sugar Ray was pretty awesome… if he could’ve just stayed away from the nose candy
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals."
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Franchise Tag: Enabling Incompetent Owners to remain imcompetent"
"Contenders do; pretenders give excuses why they did not"
"Yes everybody does have an opinion; but that does not make your opinion any less wrong"
"That ought to stop your bitchin"
"And, please remember, ignorance is not a defense"
Yep we had the 4th pick and took sugar Ray and the Celtics had the 6th
and took Bird.
by Robert Curre on Nov 15, 2011 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
The takeaway from this is the Knicks have pretty much always sucked at drafting.
Fish Fingers give me a break.
In defense of the Knicks the Celtics drafted Bird while
he was still a junior. Back then a player didn’t have to declare for the draft just be draft eligible. Since Bird sat out a year after leaving Indiana (I Can’t believe that Bobby Knight looked at Bird and said he was not good enough to play at IU) his freshman class had graduated so he was draft eligible even though he didn’t declare for the draft and was planning to return for his senior year at Indiana State. Red Auerbach was a sneaky bastard. it is because of him that they had to change the rule to say a player had to actually declare for the draft in order to be drafted.
by Robert Curre on Nov 15, 2011 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
With Bird you also forgot
career 10.0 rebounds/game average
career 6.3 assists/game average
that was in the regular season
Bird’s career playoff averages were
career 10.3 rebounds/game average
career 6.5 assists/game avearge
while also averaging 22.8 pts(regular season) and 23.8 (playoffs)
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals."
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Franchise Tag: Enabling Incompetent Owners to remain imcompetent"
"Contenders do; pretenders give excuses why they did not"
"Yes everybody does have an opinion; but that does not make your opinion any less wrong"
"That ought to stop your bitchin"
"And, please remember, ignorance is not a defense"
I used to be a point guard many many moons and about 60 LBS ago
but as long as we agree to walk it up the court and give me beer breaks at half court I could handle the point guard duties.
by Robert Curre on Nov 14, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
I'm actually not too bad!
I run a pretty mean PnR, and I got the Jamal Crawford shake and bake down!
I have a prehensile tail.
"It was one of those good, deep sleeps; you know, the ones where you wake up and a stream of drool is steadily racing down your shirt? Yes, that kind of sleep." -Landry Fields
by Thelonious Dunk on Nov 14, 2011 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
im ready to play
put me in coach!!!
by blackhova on Nov 15, 2011 10:38 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I can see why Stern gets called a plantation owner
I dunno who’s right or wrong in this and I could give a shit, but dude just gives off that sort of vibe.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Jared Zwerling: From the Knicks, Carmelo, Chauncey, Toney and Roger were at the labor talks. about 8 minutes ago
Read more: http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html#ixzz1diGXTtvM
Get The Frickin' Rebound
question does this mean Tina Cervasio is out of a job?
I could use a new assistant.
So is there even a guarantee that there'll be basketball next year?
And what does this mean for P&T?
Stainer of mountaintops.
Players said "F**k You"
Which is cool, I think, but it does mean a season’s not looking likely.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
Honestly,
You can say that the players should be happy with the deal that the NBA offered, and it’s true that they would still make lots of money, so maybe they should have just taken it.
But just because you might not suffer too badly is no reason to knuckle under to a bully. If I had a shop and was doing well, and the local mafia came along and decided I needed to pay protection money, and I could afford to do it without losing my house and car, I’d still be pissed.
I really don’t think that the NBA negotiated in good faith. I just see the players making huge concessions here, and it’s not enough for the owners.
Let’s not forget – if the owners would accept a couple of tweaks to this deal, they could probably have a 50/50 split. If the owners accepted a 48-52 split, they could probably have their luxury tax and system changes. That would be a huuuuuuuuge win for the owners. But they were not interested in that.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
Davey "The Pickle" Stern in pinstripes, a fedora, and spats on his shoes
That’s a scary Valentine’s day Massacre image
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals."
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Franchise Tag: Enabling Incompetent Owners to remain imcompetent"
"Contenders do; pretenders give excuses why they did not"
"Yes everybody does have an opinion; but that does not make your opinion any less wrong"
"That ought to stop your bitchin"
"And, please remember, ignorance is not a defense"
I agree that's where the union's fight is best held
That the union has not negotiated in good faith. I think that is a point the union could make a strong argument against in court.
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals."
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Franchise Tag: Enabling Incompetent Owners to remain imcompetent"
"Contenders do; pretenders give excuses why they did not"
"Yes everybody does have an opinion; but that does not make your opinion any less wrong"
"That ought to stop your bitchin"
"And, please remember, ignorance is not a defense"
i miss NBA basketball
heading to MSG was nice in the dreadful cold.
last years Xmas game was great!
WHY!!!!!!!!?
Boom... there it is
Right or wrong a tip of the cap to the union for going straight to filing a disclaimer rather than going through the the 30-45 propagana-fest that the de-cert route would have been
They went straight for pulling the trap door and going cage match with the league.
Ballsy call
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals."
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Franchise Tag: Enabling Incompetent Owners to remain imcompetent"
"Contenders do; pretenders give excuses why they did not"
"Yes everybody does have an opinion; but that does not make your opinion any less wrong"
"That ought to stop your bitchin"
"And, please remember, ignorance is not a defense"
I forgot to ask
Where was “natural leader” LeBron James during this meeting
Selfish players who don’t care about others like Kobe, Melo, Tyson and Chauncey were there; but gee where was the king?
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals."
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Franchise Tag: Enabling Incompetent Owners to remain imcompetent"
"Contenders do; pretenders give excuses why they did not"
"Yes everybody does have an opinion; but that does not make your opinion any less wrong"
"That ought to stop your bitchin"
"And, please remember, ignorance is not a defense"
I've always shaken my head at the George Karl-inspired crap about Melo not being a team leader
He broke the frikkin Cuse Curse
He spent his Denver time with wannabe leaders like Camby, KMart and Iverson while all the while Diva Karl trashing him because Georgie boy has dreemz of being the one true leader
While all the while, who was ther 2005 – 2007 carrying the Olympic team water… Melo
But who got the media’s attention in the 2008 Olympics… LeBron & Kobe
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals."
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Franchise Tag: Enabling Incompetent Owners to remain imcompetent"
"Contenders do; pretenders give excuses why they did not"
"Yes everybody does have an opinion; but that does not make your opinion any less wrong"
"That ought to stop your bitchin"
"And, please remember, ignorance is not a defense"
Oooohhhh my golly!
Leaders and CAmby, KMART!? and Iverson???? should never be used in the same sentence….I feel sick doing so here
you're telling me!!!
I had to live it, not just read it… arrrrgh!!!
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals."
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Franchise Tag: Enabling Incompetent Owners to remain imcompetent"
"Contenders do; pretenders give excuses why they did not"
"Yes everybody does have an opinion; but that does not make your opinion any less wrong"
"That ought to stop your bitchin"
"And, please remember, ignorance is not a defense"
Extra E twats:
Shawne Williams: New York fans don’t get down cuz negations just fell apart but just remember KNICKS R BAC LIKE WE LEFT SOMETHING !!!!! In my spike lee voice 1 minute ago
Get The Frickin' Rebound
Shawne or Spike?
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals."
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Franchise Tag: Enabling Incompetent Owners to remain imcompetent"
"Contenders do; pretenders give excuses why they did not"
"Yes everybody does have an opinion; but that does not make your opinion any less wrong"
"That ought to stop your bitchin"
"And, please remember, ignorance is not a defense"
Shawne.
If Spike hasn’t jumped the shark yet, he’s basically our Clipper Darrell.
Fish Fingers give me a break.
That's funny about the shark
I’ve been thinking about writing a post about when has NBA franchises “jumped the shark”
Now I guess I have to
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals."
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Franchise Tag: Enabling Incompetent Owners to remain imcompetent"
"Contenders do; pretenders give excuses why they did not"
"Yes everybody does have an opinion; but that does not make your opinion any less wrong"
"That ought to stop your bitchin"
"And, please remember, ignorance is not a defense"
I agree, I'm rooting for Shawne
He made some screw-ups, but he’s seemed to understand his errors and is making an effort. Whether on NY or elsewhere I hope he has a good career.
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals."
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Franchise Tag: Enabling Incompetent Owners to remain imcompetent"
"Contenders do; pretenders give excuses why they did not"
"Yes everybody does have an opinion; but that does not make your opinion any less wrong"
"That ought to stop your bitchin"
"And, please remember, ignorance is not a defense"
make it a Wet t-shirt contest and then we got something.
by Robert Curre on Nov 14, 2011 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
you're not inviting Eddy Curry are you?
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals."
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Franchise Tag: Enabling Incompetent Owners to remain imcompetent"
"Contenders do; pretenders give excuses why they did not"
"Yes everybody does have an opinion; but that does not make your opinion any less wrong"
"That ought to stop your bitchin"
"And, please remember, ignorance is not a defense"
we're the ones that gotta pay
so Landry can fuck off.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
What?
Are you implying Landry is benefiting from this?
Stainer of mountaintops.
by Chairman Meow on Nov 14, 2011 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
I'm implying the fans are the ones paying for the tickets
so “staying strong” means nothing to me, not when these assholes decide to settle their squabble then its all “hey come to the arena and pay us again!”.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Landry has nothing to do with the negotiations
So why would you tell him to fuck off?
Stainer of mountaintops.
by Chairman Meow on Nov 14, 2011 8:31 PM EST up reply actions
I'm still getting a chuckle out of the "Davey "The Pickle" Stern" comment earlier on
You’re not supposed to laugh at your own jokes, but lil’ David dressing up all mafia-like has been busting me up all afternoon
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals."
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Franchise Tag: Enabling Incompetent Owners to remain imcompetent"
"Contenders do; pretenders give excuses why they did not"
"Yes everybody does have an opinion; but that does not make your opinion any less wrong"
"That ought to stop your bitchin"
"And, please remember, ignorance is not a defense"
I bet
because you know, David Stern has said this is Nuclear Winter
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals."
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Franchise Tag: Enabling Incompetent Owners to remain imcompetent"
"Contenders do; pretenders give excuses why they did not"
"Yes everybody does have an opinion; but that does not make your opinion any less wrong"
"That ought to stop your bitchin"
"And, please remember, ignorance is not a defense"
So...
Time to see if adthe.net has Euroleague games.
NBA 2K12 Online Dynasty that we will document
can't spell win without Eagles
by metseaglesknicks on Nov 14, 2011 7:14 PM EST reply actions
I'm tight I wasted money on that game.
by schmosterballs92 on Nov 14, 2011 7:24 PM EST up reply actions
the games actually pretty good
besides the highly anti user friendly AI where an easy pass turns into a turnover because the rated 47 defender whos on the other side of the court has amassed Center Position Blazing Speed and watching Stephen Curry average 3.8 blocks a game on your player, its really a good game and i believe they’re doing a bunch of add-ons (hopefully My Crew) to make the gameplay better
by blackhova on Nov 15, 2011 10:55 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
It's upsetting that players lose a year that hurts their statistics and all-time rank.
For example, Kobe and Durant lose a year which hurts their all-time points scored chases.
by schmosterballs92 on Nov 14, 2011 7:26 PM EST reply actions
Conditioning too
Probably not such an issue for the more dedicated players out there, but when if they return to competitive play, their physiques and skills may not be as sharp as they were, so there’ll be some pretty ugly play and stats for the first little while.
Jerome James Memorial Basketball League. Has a nice ring to it, although JJ probably wouldn’t be thrilled with the “memorial” part.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things." --Jack Burton (Big Trouble in Little China) expressing in 1986 what every Knicks fan would feel twenty years later.
My 3 seconds on the soap box
Players have opinions and it is their right to be happy/sad/mad or whatever about the lockout and court action. But I really do not have much sympathy towards the Glen “Big Baby” Davis’ of the league.
He’s going on complaining that he just wants to play. He probably does not comprehend that this CBA battle is about today’s players but also equally about NBA players for the next 10 years… after his tubby butt is out of the league.
He likely also doesn’t comprehend that the salary he has earned and the pending free agent status he’s about to enjoy was due to the effort, loss and striking by the players before him.
Sometimes “Big Babies” have to be “Big Men” and pay it forward… or maybe you just truly don’t get it.
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals."
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Franchise Tag: Enabling Incompetent Owners to remain imcompetent"
"Contenders do; pretenders give excuses why they did not"
"Yes everybody does have an opinion; but that does not make your opinion any less wrong"
"That ought to stop your bitchin"
"And, please remember, ignorance is not a defense"
The whole "future of the league and players" argument is BS
It’s a PR move for the players to keep from looking greedy. Now I’m not particularly on either side, I think they’re both stupid, but when the Union keeps saying stuff like we need to preserve the game for future generations, that’s total BS.
by WSD on Nov 14, 2011 11:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Just for a little perspective
Here’s a history of NBA labor relations up to 98-99
http://www.apbr.org/labor.html
Back in the day, players had no way of getting rich and the fact that they do now is due to the hard work and guts of past players who never made a fraction of what guys do now.
Believe me, the owners would lo-o-o-o-ve to got back to the way things were, and that’s exactly what they’re trying to do – roll back player compensation and freedom back to where they were.
At some point, the players do have to hold the line – otherwise the owners will keep squeezing them and squeezing them. You think they won’t?
Interesting thing about this article though – the only thing that really helps the players is an alternate, competing league – and the players realized this, which is why they took legal action to stop the merger of the NBA and ABA in 1970 and delayed it until 1976 or so. I hadn’t realized this.
I still maintain that if the players really wanted to protect their interests and the interests of future players, they’d get a new league going.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
Why is it BS?
The majority of comments I’ve seen on the ‘net are calling the players greedy and telling them to stop fighting it cuz they’re billionaires and even half a mil should be good enough for you corn-rowed thugs my god I’d do it for free.
Yeah. You’d be doing it for free. Because you’re not good at basketball(a general “you”, I have no idea if WSD stinks at ball or not but I hear he has a pretty nice first-step).
After having watched the tenor and content of these negotiations and offers from the league, do you think the owners wouldn’t want to get even more roll-backs in the next CBA’s negotiating time? A time when revenue was projected to be much, much larger thanks to new TV deals, general appreciation of team values, blahblahblah? You think they’re eyes won’t get as big as dinner plates when they realize “Hey, we did this before. We can do it even more and for some reason the American public is telling our players that they’re rich enough, to stop moneygrabbing, and kowtow to the demands of people 100x richer as we moneygrab from the players! Excellent!”
The owners haven’t been negotiating in good faith since the start. These negotiations not only impacted the immediate CBA, but the next and each after to come. To my knowledge, the owners literally have not conceded a single thing that they had from the previous CBA. Each “concession” they’ve offered is a slight backing off of an initial batshit-crazy proposal. I understand starting low and building up but this is ridiculous.
Fish Fingers give me a break.
I think the message of my post was a little misunderstood
I do think it’s BS when the players say they’re looking out for future generations and trying to preserve the future of the “game of basketball”. However, I don’t think that they should just make concession after concession. Especially when the owners haven’t conceded anything. So that’s where baba gets mad at me and walks away.
The players however can’t say like “We gotta protect our own backs” because as has been said millions of times, in one contract these guys make more than most Americans do in their lifetime. Saying that they’re preserving the future of the game and trying to help future generations out is a nice publicity move to look a little more generous.
Because alot of people without much knowledge of the game or details, would just say “Oh, well give up money until the owners are happy. They’re still gonna make millions!” Which is not what I believe. I just think the players are really looking out for their own rear-ends, not future players’
WSD for the sake of brevity let me just say AMEN to that!
The whole “fighting for the future of the league and players” is one big giant heaping nutty brown pile of steaming BULLSHIT!"
Thank God for Basketball Prospectus
They are doing a daily simulation of all the missed games with Strat-O-Matic software and even short little game summaries. Its really quite nice.
Right now the Sim-Knicks are 4-2.
Too much too late?
In the end they did what they should have done in the beginning. I’ve never been a fan of the union’s approach to this negotiation. Now the season is truly imperiled and we only have the Dziedzik Winter to look forward to.
There are some positives we can take from this, The main one being the less restrictive and more player friendly the final outcome, the better it will be for us as Knick fans. If by some miracle the league were to operate without a collective bargaining agreement, it could turn into a law of the jungle situation, which I think would also behoove us.
Some ideas and proposals
Seth, as for ideas on what to talk about. There are still NY area basketball teams to keep track of, just at the college level. St. Johns, Hofstra, Manhattan college, I’m sure I’m leaving out a few. There are also the exploits of our current roster and past favorites in international leagues. Also, periodic Clyde fashion segments. Is Slamball still a thing?
In the pipe dream category, I submit this. Citing national morale and in the spirit of creating jobs, Obama signs into law the establishment of a state run basketball league, with teams being publicly owned by the city (a la the Green Bay Packers), with the option to sell operating licenses so a Government bureaucracy isn’t making Basketball decisions. No more threats of contraction or relocation, the NBA has some competition, no more shitty tax deals on arenas, and the players gain leverage by having an alternative. I for one would pay good money to see a resurrected Harlem Rens team. If we want to go even further, imagine having general manager or President of basketball operations being an elected position with a term of five years. Imagine the increase in voter participation! Obviously there are wrinkles that would have to be ironed out, but I think this could be a great thing.
by Jeff Van Gumby on Nov 14, 2011 10:28 PM EST reply actions
Yes to the college bball!
I wanna get more into college this season if there really is no NBA, and I think I’m gonna make St. John’s my choice. Closest college team to the Knicks, I figure
We could even call it the ABA
A real American Basketball Association
by Jeff Van Gumby on Nov 14, 2011 10:29 PM EST reply actions
Thanks!
I don’t know where it came from, probably from seeing Jeff wrapped around Alonzo Mourning’s legs being dragged around the floor.
by Jeff Van Gumby on Nov 15, 2011 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
How about the NBL?
National Basketball League
or why think small, how about the WBL? All major markets, all the time.
Scheduling and road trips would be a bitch then.
Also wouldn’t be state run, unless there was some sort of agreement between nations.
How about the NABA, North American Basketball Asociation. You could include teams from Canada, Latin America, and the Caribbean. Mexico City Chupacabras! the Kingston Buffalo Soldiers, the Havana Liberdad!
I also think any new league should have a European style tiered division system, where the last place team in the first division and first place team in the second division switch places for the next season. We could have twice the teams, older players could prolong their careers, and it adds drama and extra incentive to struggling teams to fight to not be relegated, instead of being 25 games out of first and tanking it for better draft position.
by Jeff Van Gumby on Nov 15, 2011 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
I think two divisions
All big markets
Europe
London
Madrid
Rome
Moscow
Berlin
Paris
Tokyo
Beijing
Hong Kong
North America
New York
Chicago
Miami
Los Angeles
Dallas
Boston
Toronto
Mexico City
Buenos Aires
Sao Paulo
Road trips would be killer.
Perhaps what would work better is an American League with two conferences, North American and South American, And a Eurasian League with two conferences European and Asian. Teams would only play other teams in their league, with the two League winners facing off in a world Championship. Each conference has a First division and a second division, with the last place first division team switching places with the first place second division team after the season. You could have an unbalanced schedule like in baseball, where 75% of your games are in conference, and the other 25% out of conference to cut down on huge road trips.
16 teams per conference, arranged by largest population, historically strong fanbase, or country’s skill in the sport..
Asian Conference
Beijing, Tokyo, Osaka, Hong Kong, Manila, Seoul, Ho Chi Minh City, Hanoi, Bangkok, Phnom Penh, Taipei, Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Sydney, Melbourne, Wellington
European Conference
London, Paris, Madrid, Milan, Athens, Berlin, Tel Aviv, Istanbul, Moscow, Cairo, Belgrade, Zagreb, Vilnius, Lisbon, Amsterdam, Warsaw.
South American Conference
Santiago(chile), Buenos Aires, Sao Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, Bogota, Caracas, Havana, Kingston, San Juan, Santo Domingo, La Paz, Quito, Montevideo, Medellin, Lima, Santiago(d.r.)
North American Conference
Mexico City, New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, Miami, Phoenix, Philadelphia, Toronto, Montreal, Calgary, Dallas, Washington DC, Atlanta, Boston, Guadalajara
by Jeff Van Gumby on Nov 15, 2011 2:37 AM EST up reply actions
mostly works for me. but I like the inter divisional aspect of play
road trips might be tough but they could stretch the season out and play 3 game series with extra travel days between stops. I also think you have a few too many teams. I am not sure about Calgary, Quito, Montevideo and a few other places that seem like they might be too small market.
I wanted 16 teams per conference, to create 2 leagues about the same size as the NBA
Substitute Vancouver for Calgary, but for most cases I went by the wikipedia page for largest metro areas. All of them are a million plus people. Both Quito and Montevideo have more people than Dallas for example. Here’s the link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_metropolitan_areas_in_the_Americas
In reality the South American League would have about 5 teams from Brazil, but I kept it to 2 so more countries could be involved. You could probably lose 2 or three teams no problem from the South American and Asian conference, but then that ruins the balance, unless you remove some deserving markets from the US or Europe.
by Jeff Van Gumby on Nov 15, 2011 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
If you go by market size I think you end up with a better league
In other words if Brazil has five major markets they should all have teams. Even at the expense of smaller countries in other countries. Otherwise you get a situation like we currently have where small markets demand concessions, level playing fields, and convoluted rules leading to disputes like we have now. No small markets solves that.
if the lockout does in fact cancel the entire season, how is the draft order set up? not having a draft would lead to massive lawsuits from the college and foreign players, so i’m just curious.
I read somewhere they might avg out teams' wins over the last 3 years and then have the order snake, but who really knows.
But what did you mean sued? Why would they get sued?
Fish Fingers give me a break.
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