Imagine a season without stats...
by teksurgical on Dec 20, 2011 10:52 PM EST
Email
PrintOne of the things I love about P&T and Knicks fans in general is how people actually watch the game and can form their own opinions. We can say stuff like "Duhon does nothing with the ball" or "Roger Mason is not a 3 point specialist."
But does the constant barrage of new wave statistics of recent years cloud our judgement at times? I feel like stats fill the comments and spar heated debates, but youtube now exists and sometimes our eyes are the best judgement. Sorry blind people, I love you guys though.
Take the shump for some statements that I feel like I can make, that statistics can't. And then let's hear what you got...
• Chris Paul and Chauncey Billups are the best backcourt in the NBA this season.
• Rajon Rondo is a selfish player.
• Carmelo Anthony is a better defensive player than Jared Jeffries.
• LeBron James is the best player in the NBA.
• Jamal Crawford would have been a great pickup for us at the time.
• Anything can happen in a compressed season including Knicks championship...
thoughts?
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• LeBron James is the best player in the NBA.
no.
not even the best on his team
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman and buck. they suck
Desean Jackson IS a punk....................UNLEASH Eli
Jason Peire Paul (JPP) 2011-2012 NFL Defensive player of the year
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
"If you come to a fork in the road, take it" -Yogi Berra
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Dec 20, 2011 11:05 PM EST reply actions
he's better than wade
But Wade is more driven, which is why he’s great in the clutch and has a title, and is why Lebron is garbage in the clutch.
by teksurgical on Dec 20, 2011 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
no. wade>lebron
cp3>lebron
dwight>lebron
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman and buck. they suck
Desean Jackson IS a punk....................UNLEASH Eli
Jason Peire Paul (JPP) 2011-2012 NFL Defensive player of the year
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
"If you come to a fork in the road, take it" -Yogi Berra
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Dec 21, 2011 12:12 AM EST up reply actions
Just opinions.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
yes
just like “lebron is the bet player in the league”
all opinions
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman and buck. they suck
Desean Jackson IS a punk....................UNLEASH Eli
Jason Peire Paul (JPP) 2011-2012 NFL Defensive player of the year
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
"If you come to a fork in the road, take it" -Yogi Berra
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Dec 21, 2011 12:15 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, except saying "Lebron is the best player"
Is backed by stats, the eye test, professional opinion, and least importantly crowd sourcing, i.e. public perception.
Could say the same for howard.
-Best defensive player in the NBA
-2nd best boarding player in the NBA
-And one of the most dominant offensive players in the NBA, arguably the most dominant
-You can stop Lebron easier then you can stop Dwight
You can’t really F**k with Dwight.
I know a number of people that would argue Dwight or Paul are better overall players than Lebron, so please don’t make the “public perception” thing a reason. Thanks. You could “argue” either way, but there is no clear winner.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Dwight is hardly a dominant offensive player
He is actually quite limited defensively
"I’m gonna climb up you today, Stat! No layups!" - Dump
Follow @MattyFnRaider
ONE NATION UNDER AL
Respect the reputation or it's an altercation.
by Ozraider on Dec 21, 2011 2:49 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
*offensively
"I’m gonna climb up you today, Stat! No layups!" - Dump
Follow @MattyFnRaider
ONE NATION UNDER AL
Respect the reputation or it's an altercation.
by Ozraider on Dec 21, 2011 2:49 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
he can be dominant...
without being skilled. and dwight is definitely dominant without being overly skilled… and he’s also the most “unmatched” player in the NBA, even more than lebron. dwights combination of size, agility, quicks, ups, hops and strength is so far above anyone else… and this is why i think he’s the most “dominant” player. lebron might combine more size and skill than anyone else, but he’s more guardable.
by bucketsncents on Dec 21, 2011 6:51 AM EST up reply actions
he is pretty dominate if he has to be
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman and buck. they suck
Desean Jackson IS a punk....................UNLEASH Eli
Jason Peire Paul (JPP) 2011-2012 NFL Defensive player of the year
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
"If you come to a fork in the road, take it" -Yogi Berra
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Dec 21, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed on the first two, completely disagree on the third one (he’s pretty limited), and the fourth one honestly a matter of opinion.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
if your unstoppable at a couple of things why would you need to be "limitless"?
I may not be the most noble of men but in a town of lepers, im the one with the most fingers.
Giant LB'zz SUCK!! Mark Herzlich, Jacquian Williams,...Maybe .. Sadly this has been modified.
If there was a draft tomorrow
I think Howard would go first and Lebron 2nd.
Simply because a center that good is more valuable than a small forward that good.
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
then cp3, then wade.
then maybe lebron
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman and buck. they suck
Desean Jackson IS a punk....................UNLEASH Eli
Jason Peire Paul (JPP) 2011-2012 NFL Defensive player of the year
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
"If you come to a fork in the road, take it" -Yogi Berra
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Dec 21, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
Lebron locked DOWN rose in the playoffs
Let me know when CP3 or Wade do that. Or average close to 30 points for a season. Or average 8 rebounds for a season.
Just because he’s a douche doesn’t mean he’s not the best
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
CP3 can lock down any other PG
and if i recall wasnt rose playing injured?
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman and buck. they suck
Desean Jackson IS a punk....................UNLEASH Eli
Jason Peire Paul (JPP) 2011-2012 NFL Defensive player of the year
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
"If you come to a fork in the road, take it" -Yogi Berra
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Dec 21, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
Rose shot 6%
Let me know when CP3 does that.
Can CP3 lock down Kobe? Lebron can. Pierce? Lebron can. The defensive comparison is nonexistent here. There’s a reason Lebron makes All-Defensive 1st team EVERY year
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
CP3 can lock down kobe. melo to
CP3 is one of the best Defensive PG’s in the game
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman and buck. they suck
Desean Jackson IS a punk....................UNLEASH Eli
Jason Peire Paul (JPP) 2011-2012 NFL Defensive player of the year
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
"If you come to a fork in the road, take it" -Yogi Berra
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Dec 22, 2011 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
yo pass that shit cuz you must be puffin
CP3 can lock down Kobe?! Did he do that during last year’s playoffs and I missed it? When has he done that?
I’m so curious where this CP3 boner is coming from.
Fish Fingers give me a break.
last years playoffs?
u mean the series where it seamed cp3 was the only guy out their for NO?
and the lakers won that because of bynum and gasol just as much as kobe.
kobe didnt really dominate that series now did he?
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman and buck. they suck
Desean Jackson IS a punk....................UNLEASH Eli
Jason Peire Paul (JPP) 2011-2012 NFL Defensive player of the year
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
"If you come to a fork in the road, take it" -Yogi Berra
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Dec 22, 2011 8:44 PM EST up reply actions
You know what Kobe's injuries were, right?
And you asserted that Kobe was shutdown by CP3. That series was awesome for CP3, but in terms of shutting down Kobe personally I didn’t really notice it.
Educate me.
Fish Fingers give me a break.
shut down may have not been the word
and i wasnt necesarilly talking about that 1 series.
i was more saying that CP3 can go out on that court and dominat any opposing player.
its not as if lebron shuts down every plaer every series
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman and buck. they suck
Desean Jackson IS a punk....................UNLEASH Eli
Jason Peire Paul (JPP) 2011-2012 NFL Defensive player of the year
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
"If you come to a fork in the road, take it" -Yogi Berra
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Dec 24, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
they eye test? no
stats? sure
proffesional opinion? if u consider ESPN proffesionals
public perception? well considering most of the public’s only idea’s form from the brainwashing news espn feeds them
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman and buck. they suck
Desean Jackson IS a punk....................UNLEASH Eli
Jason Peire Paul (JPP) 2011-2012 NFL Defensive player of the year
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
"If you come to a fork in the road, take it" -Yogi Berra
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Dec 21, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
Do you even WATCH defense?
Seriously. Melo is the only top player who consistently has success when Lebron guards him.
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
incorrect actually
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman and buck. they suck
Desean Jackson IS a punk....................UNLEASH Eli
Jason Peire Paul (JPP) 2011-2012 NFL Defensive player of the year
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
"If you come to a fork in the road, take it" -Yogi Berra
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Dec 21, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
Lebron is no doubt a great defender
but he doesnt completley shut down people as u are making it seam
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman and buck. they suck
Desean Jackson IS a punk....................UNLEASH Eli
Jason Peire Paul (JPP) 2011-2012 NFL Defensive player of the year
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
"If you come to a fork in the road, take it" -Yogi Berra
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Dec 22, 2011 5:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Absolutely.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
It's cute that you hate LeBron and all
but he’s definitely the best player alive, it’s really not close
TYBG
by The Rooster on Dec 21, 2011 4:25 AM EST up reply actions 7 recs
I agree with this
"I’m gonna climb up you today, Stat! No layups!" - Dump
Follow @MattyFnRaider
ONE NATION UNDER AL
Respect the reputation or it's an altercation.
Not only that
But it’s weird to me to posit “LeBron is the best player in the NBA” as a truth that can only be borne out by observation and not statistics. Even—hell, especially—statistically, LeBron crushes all challengers.
rec
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Dec 21, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
incorrect
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman and buck. they suck
Desean Jackson IS a punk....................UNLEASH Eli
Jason Peire Paul (JPP) 2011-2012 NFL Defensive player of the year
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
"If you come to a fork in the road, take it" -Yogi Berra
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Dec 21, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
and just saying
“lebron is the best bey far. no debate”
also doesnt make it so
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman and buck. they suck
Desean Jackson IS a punk....................UNLEASH Eli
Jason Peire Paul (JPP) 2011-2012 NFL Defensive player of the year
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
"If you come to a fork in the road, take it" -Yogi Berra
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Dec 22, 2011 12:45 AM EST up reply actions
Sigh
Defense- Lebron is the best defensive non-center in the NBA
Passing- Lebron is a much better passer than Wade. Could play point.
Shooting- Wade’s jumper may be a bit more consistent than Lebron’s.
Rebounding- no contest
Lebron is better than Wade.
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
incorrect
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman and buck. they suck
Desean Jackson IS a punk....................UNLEASH Eli
Jason Peire Paul (JPP) 2011-2012 NFL Defensive player of the year
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
"If you come to a fork in the road, take it" -Yogi Berra
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Dec 21, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
the part wher u say leborn is better than wade
lebron is a MUCH better passer. cause wade is a pretty good passer
and wade’s jumper is much better than lebrons
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman and buck. they suck
Desean Jackson IS a punk....................UNLEASH Eli
Jason Peire Paul (JPP) 2011-2012 NFL Defensive player of the year
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
"If you come to a fork in the road, take it" -Yogi Berra
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Dec 21, 2011 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
for what its worth
lebron shot a better fg% and 3pt%, he shot a better ft% too, but by such a small margin that i won’t even mention it.
/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \
and wade controls the game
the 4th.
lebron does not
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman and buck. they suck
Desean Jackson IS a punk....................UNLEASH Eli
Jason Peire Paul (JPP) 2011-2012 NFL Defensive player of the year
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
"If you come to a fork in the road, take it" -Yogi Berra
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Dec 22, 2011 12:45 AM EST up reply actions
if the 4th quarter is so important to you
Then how can you give Dwight Howard so much credit? All you need to do is foul him the clutch
by teksurgical on Dec 22, 2011 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
because dwight howard takes control of the game in the 4th
fouling him out?
thats ur argument against him.
when he is in the clutch he preforms
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman and buck. they suck
Desean Jackson IS a punk....................UNLEASH Eli
Jason Peire Paul (JPP) 2011-2012 NFL Defensive player of the year
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
"If you come to a fork in the road, take it" -Yogi Berra
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Dec 22, 2011 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
you put him on the foul line and he bricks.
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Dec 22, 2011 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
maybe thats why he wants a trade to new jersey
brick city.
/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \
i'd say wade is equal to the passer that lebron is.
do u see some of the crazy shit he feeds lebron
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman and buck. they suck
Desean Jackson IS a punk....................UNLEASH Eli
Jason Peire Paul (JPP) 2011-2012 NFL Defensive player of the year
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
"If you come to a fork in the road, take it" -Yogi Berra
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Dec 22, 2011 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
oh
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman and buck. they suck
Desean Jackson IS a punk....................UNLEASH Eli
Jason Peire Paul (JPP) 2011-2012 NFL Defensive player of the year
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
"If you come to a fork in the road, take it" -Yogi Berra
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Dec 24, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
Without stats, all we'd have is melo.......
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
by OzzyFan on Dec 20, 2011 11:30 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Seriously, Lebron is "arguably" the best player in the nba.
I have “argued” others could be considered better then him, specifically Dwight/Durant/Paul, but don’t want to stop that million comment debate again. So I’ll leave it at that.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
this. but with the part where we just agree that
the best player in the NBA is of opinion, and not fact. unless ofcourse u are speaking of MJ or ofcourse gallo
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman and buck. they suck
Desean Jackson IS a punk....................UNLEASH Eli
Jason Peire Paul (JPP) 2011-2012 NFL Defensive player of the year
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
"If you come to a fork in the road, take it" -Yogi Berra
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Dec 21, 2011 12:14 AM EST up reply actions
Best Backcourt, I'd argue Ellis/Curry and Parker/Ginobli into that conversation.
Personally, I’d take both those 2 backcourts over Paul/Billups.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
they can be entered
but they do not win. cp3 and billups together will have to be watched to be appreciated
by teksurgical on Dec 20, 2011 11:59 PM EST up reply actions
i'd take paul/no one
over any other back court in the league
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman and buck. they suck
Desean Jackson IS a punk....................UNLEASH Eli
Jason Peire Paul (JPP) 2011-2012 NFL Defensive player of the year
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
"If you come to a fork in the road, take it" -Yogi Berra
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Dec 21, 2011 12:15 AM EST up reply actions
Really?
Chris Paul vs. Russell Westbrook
Chauncey vs. Harden
I like Harden an all, but you gotta be out of your mind to take OKC backcourt over them…
by teksurgical on Dec 21, 2011 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
Harden is miles better than Billups
TYBG
by The Rooster on Dec 21, 2011 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
how about
Chris Paul vs. Monta
Billups vs. Curry
Curry wins hands down (yes he fucking does), Paul wins hands down. So, overall?
I guess you give the edge to CP3 but it’s debatable
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
Curry is a more pure scoring guard than Billups, sure.
But running an offense and leading the team??
I haven’t seen Curry really take over a game down the stretch.
Also… Monta Ellis is the same way. He’s a pure scoring guard. Not really a playmaker. So while he can probably put up more points than CP3… I would absolutely call Paul the better rebounder, playmaker, and defensive presence. Ellis is good on defense but all he does is go for the steal. He gets burned plenty.
If you wanna get technical…. the matchup would likely be Paul/Curry and Ellis/Billups since both would be playing the 2 spot.
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Dec 21, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
True
Ellis vs Billups and Paul vs Curry then. But that would favor the Warriors more, no?
I mean if Billups is strictly a 2, and Ellis is strictly a 2, I’d take Ellis in a heartbeat.
CP3 vs Curry is no contest though. Golden State does not have a true point guard, but it’s not like their guys can’t pass the ball. Curry averaged 5.8 assists last year and Ellis averaged 5.6 assists, and while that’s not a great number INDIVIDUALLY for a point guard, put together they provide plenty of playmaking from the backcourt.
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
edge goes to experience in my opinion.
Curry is nice but he will not take you where Billups will take you in the playoffs. Add CP3 experience to that of Monta… yes its close but I take the LA backcourt
Crawford would have been a great pickup for us? Obviously I would agree.
Can’t see how adding a recent 6th man of the year would have been bad. lol. That scoring punch he has would have been awesome to add.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Melo is a better defensive player then Jeffries?
And Yes, the knicks can win the title. And if Baron Davis can stay healthy, we are looking really pretty. Even without Baron, our only real weakness is a combo F off the bench or a F© that can board and add a little O, because we have Balkman/Jeffries who can both play d, but are weak on O and the boards(balkman isn’t for his roster spot, but we are weak on 2ndary boarding righ now) ( We have Jorts and Novak too, but I think their time will be limited as regulars + Novak is 1-dimensional and jorts offense is limited).
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
"Melo is a better defensive player then jeffries?" When he tries yes, usually no.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
Melo is the better defender
Your forgot the part where Jeffries sucks at basketball
Do the Shumpty Shump, come on and do the Shumpty Shump
It's amazing how much being really tall and skinny while hustling has gotten him huh?
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
but
stats have nothing to do with this thought.
you can find stats to help back each of those opinions, just like you can find stats to disprove them.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
by gbaked on Dec 21, 2011 12:51 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
Yeah, kind of funny. You can't answer everything with the eye test, that's why there are stats. And you can't answer everything with stats, that's why you need to watch the games/players.
What do you mean they won 4 cups in a row? Is that possible?
yea, but I take this post as a backlash against the sabrmetrics domination of the conversation, which I fully support
I think Derrick Rose’s MVP and the complete and utter failure of ESPN’s QBR signals that at some point soon statheads will finally have to admit that stats aren’t infallible
Do the Shumpty Shump, come on and do the Shumpty Shump
i have never heard a "Stat head"
ever say stats are not infallible.
in fact, most would argue that stats dont tell a whole story by themselves, and they are just a tool to be used to help understand the game.
any “stat head” that turns around and says that stats are all you need is a hack, and would prob be the guy that nobody likes to hang out with at parties.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Derrick Rose's MVP just proves that people are stupid when it comes to voting for MVPs
by flossy on Dec 22, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
yeap
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Dec 22, 2011 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
its stupid to care so much about the MVP
it goes with that whole idea that just because someone is the best player, doesn’t make him teh most valuable.
I have no prob with Rose being the MVP. Its not claiming him to be the best player overall last year, just the most valuable to his team.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
agree with this
no one besides maybe dwight howard was more valuable to his teams succsess.
while players like durant, lebron and dwight were maybe better than him
he was probably the most valuable to his team.
the argument can be made for dwight. but Roses stats were better. so that gave him the edge
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman and buck. they suck
Desean Jackson IS a punk....................UNLEASH Eli
Jason Peire Paul (JPP) 2011-2012 NFL Defensive player of the year
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
"If you come to a fork in the road, take it" -Yogi Berra
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Dec 22, 2011 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
rose was aweome last year
he threw down one of the sickest dunks I have ever seen against us. Bulls got a player there, and he took them to the playoffs. He is a legit MVP.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
by gbaked on Dec 23, 2011 1:08 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
it really kills me how crazily Chicago lucked into that pick
Seth had gotten me to pine for Rose for almost an entire year before the draft even started, only to watch the Bulls somehow jump up to #1.
argh
Fish Fingers give me a break.
yea but chicaygo was also where he wanted to be
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman and buck. they suck
Desean Jackson IS a punk....................UNLEASH Eli
Jason Peire Paul (JPP) 2011-2012 NFL Defensive player of the year
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
"If you come to a fork in the road, take it" -Yogi Berra
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Dec 24, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
agree.
i think rose is the 2nd best PG in the league
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman and buck. they suck
Desean Jackson IS a punk....................UNLEASH Eli
Jason Peire Paul (JPP) 2011-2012 NFL Defensive player of the year
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
"If you come to a fork in the road, take it" -Yogi Berra
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Dec 24, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
WHY IS EVERYONE YELLING?
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
by Russ on Dec 25, 2011 7:40 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
ANDY PETTITTE IS A STARTING PITCHER
TYBG
by The Rooster on Dec 25, 2011 11:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'VE FALLEN
AND I CAN’T GET UP!
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
THESE PRETZELS ARE MAKING ME THIRSTY!
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Shaq only having 1 MVP trophy showed that a loooong time ago
I hate KG, but he should have had a LOT more MVP’s than he has right now as well
Fish Fingers give me a break.
i dont see how rondo is a selfish player
sometimes i see him overpass, not usually though
i see the point here
rondo ofteen holds the ball for way too long and doesn’t make a pass unless it leads directly to an assist. you don’t have to shoot it to be a selfish ballhog.
/// aighttho.com \\/// twitter.com/aighttho \\
Without stats we would be talking about a lot of BS voo-doo and armchair pop-psychology
I’d rather have the stats, as flawed as they may be, to balance out the hyperbole.
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
by Russ on Dec 21, 2011 10:05 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
This is true.
I’m not the most stats savvy guy (just browse through my past posts for plenty of hyberbole).
but stat keep the loudest/most obnoxious person from winning the argument every time.
Waiting for Christmas...
by StarksMiddleFinger on Dec 21, 2011 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
Not necessarily.
These days the loudest, most hyperbolic arguments come from stat people. And if you point out how a certain stat doesn’t match reality they say the situation is an anomaly because the stats can never be flawed.
Do the Shumpty Shump, come on and do the Shumpty Shump
i would love to see these
all these “loudest, most hyperbolic arguments” that you speak of.
cause your claims appear, to me, to be very loud and mostly hyperbolic.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Would you care to back up your observation with facts?
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
I think Chris Paul and Chauncey Billups is a scary backcourt
And people will look at stats and hold Chauncy Billups back a bit.
But consider that Billups came into the league as a 2 and evolved into a 1 (and an elite 1 who led the Pistons to 2 championships). Consider how he didn’t play much for the first part of his career (which may make his age deceiving in terms of gameplay). Consider how the teams he leaves don’t end up better than when he was with them.
Fact is Billups has shown himself to be a highly regarded teammate not simply because he seems to co-exist well with any he plays with, but he immediately helps mentor guys and commands respect. You won’t hear Billups bitching about not getting th ball enough. You won’t hear him complain to the media about his teammates. And the experience he brings to a team full of younger players will certainly improve them instantly and all season, especially in a short season.
Statswise, I don’t know if the Clippers backcourt will rule the NBA… Golden State might put up higher scoring. But I’ll be damned if that Clipper backcourt isn’t the most feared in the league come playoff time. Thank god the Knicks won’t have to deal with it until the potential NBA Finals!
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Dec 21, 2011 11:47 AM EST reply actions
I'd rather have CP3 and Burps over...
Rondo/Ray Allen
Westbrook/Sefalosha/Harden
Rose/Hamilton
Parker/Ginobili
Kidd/Carter (bwaahaha)
Nash/Dudley
Nelson/Richardson
Ellis/Curry (though if they make a deep run in the playoffs…)
Lawson/Afflalo
Felton/Crawford
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Dec 21, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
Haha!
Bibby/Novak?
Davis/Shumpty?
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Dec 21, 2011 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
Also
Very ironic that a guy who averaged 14 assists last year is considered selfish, not to mention that he plays through some gruesome injuries.
Despite the fact that he’s a Celtic, Rajon Rondo has always had my grudging respect.
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
It's an interesting thought.
But stingy brought up a very good point that Rondo does tend to control the ball for a very long time. Rondo certainly is a top noptch PG but many Celtics plays stem from him running down the clock and making a single pass for a shot or layup. He DOES seem to pass to get an assist in a way. Though, if those passes lead directly to easy shots, it’s hard to criticize I guess..
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Dec 21, 2011 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
lol...I was going to respond to your point...
but that last sentence you wrote kinda summed it up!
You just got Tysoned!!!!!!
yep!
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Dec 21, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
I am not equating assists to unselfishness
Rondo definitely holds the ball all shot clock long. His role controlling their main 3 guys has gone so far to his head that I think it hurts his team. He feels the need to dictate every single possession until he can decide how the play will happen. Even if he doesn’t get an assist, he still needs to make sure the play was created by him. Talk about stagnant offense…the Celtics have had their success based on D.
What I will give Rondo is that he hustles his ass off on every play. But yes I do think he is a selfish player in a way that Chris Paul for instance could never be.
That just makes him a control freak
But wouldn’t you argue that the Celtics offense necessitates it?
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
agree on rondo
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman and buck. they suck
Desean Jackson IS a punk....................UNLEASH Eli
Jason Peire Paul (JPP) 2011-2012 NFL Defensive player of the year
"We’re going to turn this team around 360 degrees." –Jason Kidd
"If you come to a fork in the road, take it" -Yogi Berra
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Dec 21, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
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