Was Isiah's Team Really That Bad?
I hate Isiah as much as the next guy, he was a horrible coach and a horrible person. He made some of the worst moves in franchise history that cost us a decade of losing, but the team that Donnie aquired actually had some very good pieces that I think we should have kept.
Jamal Crawford is my ideal 2 guard, no he isnt a all star but he is one hell of a offensive weapon, he has ideal SG size at 6'5" and has all of the athletic ability in the world, he can shoot, slash and create and has won a 6th man of the year award since leaving the Knicks. He adverages 15.5 pts and 4 assists in 32 minutes career, he was a keeper.
Zach Randolph was a D'Antoni faveorite and probally Isiah's best move. A big man with quick feet and a good shot, ZBo really had a nice scoring touch. Good size for a 4 at 6'9" 260 pounds, he adverages 17.5 points and 9 rebounds in 32 minutes, Randolph was a keeper.
David Lee was one of the best rebounders to ever wear a Knicks jersey, he was out of position most of the time here at C, much better suited to play PF and would have been an ideal backup to Randolph. Lee was a keeper.
Nate Robinson was instant offense off the bench, the little guy usually played PG but would have been better off playing a role similar to Iverson in Philly as a 2 guard (only Nate would be coming off the bench)
Wilson Chandler was another one of the better draft picks of the Thomas era, he has really come around recently, great size and athletic ability at the SF position. I would be fine with Chandler as a starter or a reserve off the bench but either way he was a keeper.
Jarrod Jeffries is a long athletic defender would could have come off the bench to defend opposing forwards .
Walsh had the 6th pick in 2008 and the 8th pick in 2009 to add a PG and a C to this group, his options were...
Brook and Robin Lopez, JaVale McGee, Roy Hibbert and DeAndre Jordan at C in 2008
Brandon Jennings, Jrue Holliday, Ty Lawson and Darren Collison ar PG in 2009
Would they win it all? I dont know but i do think they would beat our current team, expecially with that bench...
Jennings, Crawford, Chandler, Randolph, McGee
Robinson, Fields, Jeffries and Lee
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Gallo and Felton
Were great additions by Walsh that would have played great with that group
Felton, Crawford, Gallo, Zbo, Lee
Duhon, Nate, Fields, Chandler, Jeffries, Hill, Mozgov
the one issue with that team
is that it wouldnt win in the league these times which is controlled by stars, and defense doesnt even know how to be spelled in that group of people haha
zbo and crawford and lee
had to go because they were way expensive and only played offense. i like the expensive one-dimensional scorers we have now much better. zbo and crawford also had, and still have, awful shot selection.
It's quite likely that Mike D'Antoni will accomplish something that Don Chaney, Lenny Wilkens, Herb Williams, Larry Brown, and Isiah Thomas couldn't do: Win a playoff game. So, obviously, small ball doesn't work.
NOT TO MENTION THE FAT CONTRACT
EDDY CURRY GOT!!!!!!! How can someone mention Isiah Thomas and not Curry.
If I can make it there, I'll make it anywhere...It's up to you, New York, New York!!!!
Isiah's record tells the story. The story of the worst basketball executive of the 21st century
with the Knicks as a GM from partway into 2003-2004 through 2007-08— 141-205 for a winning percentage of 41%
and the two years he was coach with the players he chose in 2006-08— 56-108
The entire time Isiah was here, he did what you just did in your post. He took every one of his transactions as if they had nothing to do with each other. That’s how you pair Z-Bo with Eddy Curry or Francis with Marbury (supposedly “not his fault,” but can you blame a fart on someone else when you already shit your pants?)
You also assume he’d have picked those PGs or those centers, but he passed on Andrew Bynum for Channing Frye and Rajon Rondo for Renaldo Balkman. He also chose Mardy Collins instead of an entire second round of players, regardless of who they were. You also assume he would not have made more bad moves to set the team back, or thrown the full midlevel exception at shitty players.
Also
the Knicks were playing in a historically bad Eastern Conference that entire time and were regularly below all those horrible teams
Larry Bird
You might want to add Larry Birds name to the top of that list. Indiana was one of the top teams in the league when he got there and the team has been run into the ground. It’s worth noting that when Isaiah came to the Knicks, he was burdened by the horrible deals made by Scott Layden. In the end he was a good evaluator of talent, but poor in coaching and managing money. If you look it up you might be surprised how bad a job Larry has done.
Stay true to yourself, unless you're living a lie
by 78sackdance on Feb 28, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
Bird has been awful indeed
and I’ve always said Layden was probably even worse than Isiah. He brought all the bad contracts and traded picks, but with overpaid 30yo 6’7" PFs instead of younger guys with actual talent. Horrible drafter, too. All in all, Isiah was just your average bad GM, really. a lot of GMs have been as bad or worse over the last 10 years, and like any GM, Isiah made some good moves as well. the media has a lot of fun with Isiah-as-archvillain but one could easily argue that the man calling the shots in New Jersey is worse than Isiah ever was. or that Isiah, if he were still Knicks GM, would be the second-best GM in the division. (the Atlantic is that bad. Ainge, Colangelo, King, Stefanski… pukes repeatedly)
"I feel like this: You can't hate me." -Toney Douglas
Yes...yes they were
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Feb 26, 2011 5:35 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
he also liked Jennings and Brook Lopez the most of those player available
so basically we have another 7fter who averages less then 6 rebounds…aka Eddy Curry part 2, and then we have a chucking PG shooting 38% tho he does do some things very well and can explode some nights…basically Jamal Crawford part 2 (tho that’s probably an insult to Jamal).
Isiah found some talent. Wilson and Lee were 2 great finds when they were. Nate was infuriating and still cannot find a role (he might not see the floor in OKC, they have plenty of solid guards).
But overall he was indeed the blight on this organization as advertised. Wasn’t totally his fault..Layden’s bowel movements started the foundation for that shithole, but Isiah definitely built his own outhouse.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Jennings, Crawford, Chandler, Randolph, McGee
If you thought the 07-08 Knicks couldn’t guard anyone, then wait until you catch a glimpse of this team…
Crawford, Randolph, and McGee are all atrocious defenders, as in “bottom 10 in the entire NBA” defenders. Jennings is below average. Chandler would be the only respectable defender, but he wouldn’t be able to stop the layup line around him.
"I feel like this: You can't hate me." -Toney Douglas
he was horrible
but had some talents on the team which he didn’t use correctly. Zeke doesn’t know chemistry at all and the players didn’t play well together because they didn’t have a good coach. If MDA was coaching that team, I am sure he would have made the best of them and probably made the playoffs every year, but lose in the first or second round. Zeke handed out bad contracts and overpaid players who weren’t all that good. It would have been nice to have Randolph play the 4 along with Stat at center. If he hadn’t overpaid the likes of Jeffries, etc, we could have had most of those players and achieve a lot. Jamal Crawford was never used properly when he was here and seemed inconsistent but the Hawks found a way to use him and make the best out of him. He is a good player and great off the bench. He could have been like a JR Smith for us but we had to get rid of these players mostly because of their contracts, and Walsh was trying to prepare us for the 2010 Free Agent class which had Stat, Wade, Lebron, etc.
Can someone tell Isiah to stop posting on P&T and focus on preparing his team for the tournament.
smh
P&T - Screw D-Will we got She-Will
by Ozraider on Feb 26, 2011 7:26 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Yep
My first instinct is ignore this post, but recent events show that maybe Isiah’s biggest fault was doing whatever the owner wanted. That’s all I’ll say about that, as it would be all speculation, when the fact is that Zeke’s teams were seemingly worse every year, and had no chemistry at all.
Of the 70 or so players who came through here during Zeke’s tenure, you were able to name 6 that you think were any good, and of them, I’d say only 3 have any chance of starting here (Wil, Lee, Randolph), and that’s only if we’re going small.
by superturboultra on Feb 26, 2011 8:33 PM EST up reply actions
Yes isiah's team was that bad
(now i will read what is below the title)
Dear FOX...
Fire Aikman and replace him with Strahan please
Bunga Bunga Party anyone???
NO Oline in the first!!!!!!!!!
Stat and Melo! Stat and Melo! Stat and Melo! Stat and Melo! Stat and Melo! Stat and Melo! Stat and Melo! Stat and Melo!!!!!!
I wrote this sig. So if Chris Broussard says he did. he's lying. infact if Chris Broussard says he wrote any store he's lying
it wasn't the players that was the problem it was the team.
if anyone understands what i’m trying to say
Dear FOX...
Fire Aikman and replace him with Strahan please
Bunga Bunga Party anyone???
NO Oline in the first!!!!!!!!!
Stat and Melo! Stat and Melo! Stat and Melo! Stat and Melo! Stat and Melo! Stat and Melo! Stat and Melo! Stat and Melo!!!!!!
I wrote this sig. So if Chris Broussard says he did. he's lying. infact if Chris Broussard says he wrote any store he's lying
They didn't fit together AT ALL
and damn if you think this team can’t defend just read those names again……..
P&T - Screw D-Will we got She-Will
its fun to only look at the good
and completely ignore aaaaaaaallllllllllllllllllll the bad.
I do think that Scott layDUMB deserves more blame then he gets though, he dug the hole to begin with… IT just took over and kept on digging.
I think the moral of the story is its mostly Dolans fault.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Yup he was trying to make us like the Jazz
Shannon Anderson and Howard Eisley yessir…. the latter became one of the 3 pgs stat had on his first 20 ppg season with pringles (though they say he sucked well… they did at the time not a slight at all to pringles).Then during the Isiah period we had guys like Penny who practically balled all out when healthy ( as seen as the only knick who played hard during our last playoff run of 4 games) but most of the time injured which further robbed whatever athleticism he had left (and believe me he was athletic as fuck in orlando and for the 1999/2000 suns). VIn Baker who was an alcoholic and seemed that he left his best game in Seattle or Milwaukee (IMO) and was going out of the league by then, and many more. Kind of sad to think of that era when the best Knick was a NET. Yep that bad.
Victory goes to the courageous!!
It all went downhill after he tradede away Keith Van Horn for that piece of crap in Tim Thomas.
ITS CALLED DEFENSE! D.E.F.E.N.S.E.! I MAYBE-I MAYBE WRONG...BUT I DOUBT IT!
I agree
the team was just coming together and was nearly at 500 when Zeke traded Van Horn away. Marbury was actually making place, getting many assists and things were starting to look good, but then Zeke became to trigger happy with making trades because he felt big being a team president. This is where he messed up by getting Tim Thomas for Van Horn when it was pointless. Van Horn was having one of his best seasons and then got traded away. After that, he started overpaying players, taking on bad contracts and bringing in players who would clearly not mix well. 2 things Zeke knows nothing of, A, chemistry, B, being in charge of a franchise. He makes a good scout and that’s the only thing he should ever be considered for or maybe a consultant.
Scott Layden, I don’t even wanna mention his because I hate him but he started it before anyone, and maybe that made things worse for Zeke. People like that should never be near the Knicks again. As much as I hear and know about Dolan, I must give him credit for not messing up the Carmelo Anthony trade. He must have said or done something right to gain Carmelo’s trust or otherwise the Russian in NJ would have gotten him before.
Tim Thomas sucked, yes
but in all fairness, Van Horn dropped off the map after we traded him. He was marginally productive for another two seasons, but his minutes were cut back as he declined rapidly. Meanwhile Thomas went on to rob another team’s bank account, which was his career objective, so you have to consider his twilight years somewhat of a success.
"I feel like this: You can't hate me." -Toney Douglas
Hard 2 believe a team of Lee, Randolph, Chandler,
Crawford, Duhon, PLUS SEVERAL #1 DRAFT CHOICES
would compare w/thi Carmelo,Stoudemare team?
Duh, isiah’s team would have excellent scorers,shooters,
.
Walsh’s team will stink. Can’t believe walsh didn’t demand
a physical 4 Anthony prior 2 the trade. Had the bursitis in
Anthony’s elbow been disclosed, the trade would have been
voided.
Knicks management stinks & the Knicks will stink 4 the rest
of the season.
Anyone to deson’t think the Knicks were raped by this trade
knows NOTHING about basketball!!!
Isiah's teams were lucky to win 29 games in any given year.
Anyone who doesn’t understand that doesn’t know math. C’mon man….
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Feb 27, 2011 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
Well you certainly have the courage of your convictions
Knicks management stinks & the Knicks will stink 4 the rest
of the season.
You realize of course that in the history of NBA trades the team getting the superstar player invariably gets the better end of the deal. I now think there was very little choice involved on the part of Walsh and Dolan to make the Melo deal. Yes, we were raped slightly, but the alternative of Melo in Brooklyn was too horrible an alternative for Knick management to contemplate. Bottom line is that they believed Melo was not willing to leave $25million on the table. I think Denver was raped too. That leaves only one possible conclusion. We ended up with a very talented and wealthy rapist on our favorite team.
Back to the subject of if the Knicks are a better team with Melo. None of us know if they will be able to put it all together before the playoffs start this year. It could happen. But to think that we are ultimately not better for the addition of a player of Melo’s caliber makes little sense to me.
Island Red Fly - try it scrambled
all ya'll is gat rocks in yr brains
/// aighttho.com \\\/// twitter.com/aighttho \\\
by stingy d on Feb 27, 2011 11:07 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
They were 6-5, so what
At one point the Larry Brown team won 5 in a row, and they were shit
by Dutchmarau on Feb 27, 2011 5:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I can't believe it only took 3 years for this question to come up.
Have people forgotten the sheer ignominy that was NY basketball for so long already?
well we try not to remember
Dear FOX...
Fire Aikman and replace him with Strahan please
Bunga Bunga Party anyone???
NO Oline in the first!!!!!!!!!
Stat and Melo! Stat and Melo! Stat and Melo! Stat and Melo! Stat and Melo! Stat and Melo! Stat and Melo! Stat and Melo!!!!!!
I wrote this sig. So if Chris Broussard says he did. he's lying. infact if Chris Broussard says he wrote any store he's lying
by 56THE REAL LT on Mar 1, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
The point of this post was...
That a couple of bad moves/player (Marbury, Curry, Jerome James) held the team back and if we had a good PG and C it would have been a good team…
I’m not saying superstars, just players like the ones walsh shopped for in 08 and 09…Andre Miller, Jason Kidd, Ramon Sessions, Marcus Camby, Martin Gortat

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