More Analysis of the Post-Trade teams
by mindfeck on Mar 23, 2011 5:30 PM EDT
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PrintHey, look, an article that uses actual numbers to show exactly what all Melo critics have said for months or years. Without Melo, the Nuggets have been the best defensive team in the NBA. That's despite playing former Knicks significant minutes. The same Knicks who Melo lovers have said are role players and poor defenders. That's despite not having many practices to build chemistry. That's even with Ty Lawson as the PG, a guy who was considered too small to defend at the NBA level, but who the Knicks could have and should have drafted. I strongly supported drafting him, but Donnie got a big corpse called Jordan Hill instead.
On offense, Danilo Gallinari has outplayed Carmelo Anthony. Anyone who watches basketball and understands that games are won by substance, not flash, knew that a Melo-Danilo swap wasn't too lopsided in terms of talent. Then when you consider the Knicks sent over Wilson Chandler, an actual center, and their starting point guard, and paid Carmelo max money to bring down the team, how does anyone still consider it good?
Oh yeah, Knicks are relevant again. Relevant as a joke for Letterman.
Of course some people will say I should just stop saying I'm a Knicks fan if I think the team made bad moves. Is that how you decide what team to support? You only support teams who make good moves? Yeah, what a fan.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=haberstroh_tom&id=6249783
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big fan of this post...
being a fan doesn’t mean we have to blindly approve of all moves. obviously, it’s early and time will tell. and obviously, we’ve got moves we need to make to get us where we want to go.
but it’s also obvious we shafted ourselves short term… and didn’t guarantee anything long term by dumping versatility for stardom.
no more stars thank you very much.
by bucketsncents on Mar 23, 2011 5:38 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I feel you
and I see it from this side too. I think everyone’s got the right to say “I root for the Knicks but fuck you if you tell me I have to like the players on the team”. Especially as someone that thinks Al Harrington is a nice person, but hate what he does on the court.
I like Carmelo, but I never really wanted him on the Knicks unless it was the right situation (and this ain’t right).
I hate the trade, but know this team needs more time then the Denver squad given what we gave up and brought back.
I know we need to wait and it takes time, but fuck if I can’t be pissed about how shitty they’re playing.
But w/e.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
If you were to do a correct analysis, you should do it of the players involved in the trade, since the trade, not by posting some stuff like this. Use stats/evidence.
Since the trade:
Now Knicks Players:
Carmelo- 36mpg 44%FG 42%3P 86%FT 6RPG 2.9APG .8SPG 24.3PPG
Billups- 32mpg 41%FG 32%3P 89%FT 3.5RPG 5.2APG 1.4SPG 18.8PPG
She-Williams-9mpg 31%FG 79%FT 2.2RPG 1.5APG .3BPG 3.2PPG
A.Carter-17mpg 40FG% 31%3P 100%FT 2.6RPG 1.5APG 1.1SPG 4.3PPG
Balkman-6mpg 25%FG 50%3P 1RPG .3SPG 1PPG
Now Denver Players:
Felton-31mpg 41%FG 38%3P 52%FT 4RPG 6.7APG 1.3SPG 10.1PPG
Gallinari-30MPG 42%FG 25%3P 89%FT 5.6RPG 1.2APG .6SPG 16.2PPG
Chandler-31MPG 45%FG 42%3P 80%FT 5.6RPG 1.5APG .7BPG .8SPG 14.3PPG
Mozgov-6MPG 50FG% 71%FT 1.5RPG .1BPG .1SPG 2.7PPG
Either way, whether people like to believe it or not, it’s too early to determine who got the better of the trade. It’s too early to say the trade was a bust, it takes time for team’s to blend and find the right game plans. And it’s too early to go into panic mode. Sure, people can complain all they want, it’s their opinion, but it gets tiring reading some of the same people on here bitching on and on about melo sucking and the trade being a bust when in reality it’s way too early to determine that and Melo doesn’t suck whether people like to think so or not. Sure he has his faults, but people saying things like Melo is a worse overall player then Gallinari are making me laugh. And for the record, Gallinari hasn’t outplayed melo offensively.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game and won 4 straight cups. Best overall player in the nhl right now=Pavel Datsyuk.
I'm also an optimistic Knicks fan, pessimistic Mets fan, and a happy Jets fan.
There were arguments that Melo makes his whole team better. But he left and the whole team is doing better, especially on defense, which can’t be seen just by looking at stats of players involved.
And for the record, Gallinari’s offensive output has matched Melo’s if you look at PER, which is a pretty accurate offensive rating.
The Nuggets were the 4th seed in the Western Conference Playoffs last year. They aren't a bad team at all and just spread out there talent. And don't forget k-mart and andersen just came back form injuries, which helps their defense out a lot.
And you’re offensive comparison of gallo and melo is bogus. Don’t get me wrong, I loved gallo when he was here, but once Gallinari starts averaging 24ppg+ and shoots around .450 from the field regularly, then we’ll talk. Until then, Gallinari and Melo aren’t on the same level offensively, at all. I could care less what “advanced” stats say, because the straight up numbers flat out say melo is a better shooter from the field and puts up noticably more points per game then melo. End of story.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game and won 4 straight cups. Best overall player in the nhl right now=Pavel Datsyuk.
I'm also an optimistic Knicks fan, pessimistic Mets fan, and a happy Jets fan.
Come on man, don't try to win a statistics argument with points per game or FG%, that's minor league
And yes, there were a lot of people saying before the trade that the Nuggets were good because Melo made his teammates better in some way that doesn’t show up in the stat sheet. I think we can safely put that argument to bed.
By taking pressure off of them, getting double teamed, and the occassional nice pass sure melo helps a bit. Other then that, not really.
But we are comparing offensive prowess. What better way to compare offensive prowess then straight up field goal percentage and points per game numbers? Honestly, there is no purer way, and that is why Jordan is easily argued the greatest “shooter” of all time. Center and PF’s are a little different, but talking SF’s and G’s, this is the best way imo.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game and won 4 straight cups. Best overall player in the nhl right now=Pavel Datsyuk.
I'm also an optimistic Knicks fan, pessimistic Mets fan, and a happy Jets fan.
You could use TS%, for starters
Since shooting threes, getting to the line, and making free throws aren’t included in FG%. You can also consider turnovers.
Also, Jordan is not considering the greatest shooter of all time by anyone. He’s the best all-around. But he consistently shot 50% from the field, with a ton of free throws.
"What better way to compare offensive prowess then straight up field goal percentage and points per game numbers?"
Unless you think that 3 pointers only count for 2 points, and that free throws don’t count at all, you’ll probably want to consult True Shooting % as a metric of a player’s scoring prowess.
Either way, it's a pointless argument. Gallinari isn't close to being as good of a shooter as Melo is yet. Can we have an agreement on that? Or do you too believe that Gallo is a better offensive player then Melo?
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game and won 4 straight cups. Best overall player in the nhl right now=Pavel Datsyuk.
I'm also an optimistic Knicks fan, pessimistic Mets fan, and a happy Jets fan.
Melo is a better mid-range shooter
Gallinari is a better 3 point shooter. 3 point shots are more valuable. Gallinari is also getting to the line more. He’s been very aggressive. He’s not as talented offensively, but his shot selection is much better, and his aggression is allowing him to be more efficient.
Melo is more talented offensively? Yes. Gallo is more efficient? Not imo. Gallo is more aggressive with Denver? In his small timeframe yes, his career here no.
Gallo take better shots? Sure, but Melo is still the better shooter no matter how many shots he likes taking in opposing player’s faces or in awkward positions. Melo “could” be one of the greatest nba shooters of all time if he picked his shots better and worked harder on pnr and running to open spots. But he doesn’t, and he is still one of the best shooters in the game. I think we all would like Melo to become a 48-50% FG 25ppg shooter that he has in him, but he is what he is, and he is still an elite offensive player any way you look at it.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game and won 4 straight cups. Best overall player in the nhl right now=Pavel Datsyuk.
I'm also an optimistic Knicks fan, pessimistic Mets fan, and a happy Jets fan.
Gallo is turning into one of the most efficient players in the game
and he is 22.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Show me a breakdown then with his all around "efficient" numbers vs melo's career numbers. I'm not sold on this point, and I'd much prefer flat our seeing it myself to say you guys are right.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game and won 4 straight cups. Best overall player in the nhl right now=Pavel Datsyuk.
I'm also an optimistic Knicks fan, pessimistic Mets fan, and a happy Jets fan.
Scoring efficiency is not really a question of opinion
League average true shooting % is about .540
Carmelo’s career TS% is .544 (.550 this year)
Gallo’s career TS% is .589 (.604 this year)
Free throws are the most efficient way to score points, and getting to the line has become one of Gallo’s specialties. Three pointers are also a very efficient means of scoring (if you shoot them well, and Gallo does).
Long, contested two-point jump shots are by far the worst shot you can take in basketball from an efficiency standpoint. Melo takes a lot of these, and while he’s better at making them than almost anyone else, it doesn’t make it a good shot.
The one argument you can make against TS% as a measure of scoring prowess is that it doesn’t factor in how much one shoots. It is, I admit, harder to maintain a super-high TS% if you take 20+ shots per game and are constantly double teamed. You can look at it several ways: someone like Gallo could not maintain his prodigious level of efficiency if he took as many shots as Melo, yes—but at the same time, Melo has often hurt his team’s efficiency by taking too many poor shots and therefore taking shots away from his more efficient teammates. To see an illustration of this, you just have to look at how the Nuggets have not missed a beat by spreading their shot attempts around amongst a group of high-efficiency scorers (Nene, JR Smith, Gallo, Afflalo, and Lawson all have higher TS% than Melo) rather than giving the lion’s share to Melo.
Melo could easily become a more efficient scorer by improving his shot selection and playing more within the offensive playbook. But it’s still a question of "will he become efficient" not "is he already efficient."
by flossy on Mar 24, 2011 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nice. Thanks for the explanation. I understand it now. And agree with your points.
It’s a good debate.
Food for thought:
1-Would one prefer a player who is 55%TS player and nets 25ppg or a guy who nets 15ppg and has a 60%TS?
2-We all know “if” Melo chose his shots better, he “could” put up gallo numbers (60%TS 16ppg).
3-If Gallo shoots/drives as much as melo/more to get 25ppg, could he realistically keep his TS% as high as melo’s at 55%?
Don’t get me wrong, TS% is a good stat and Gallo is a more efficient 15ppg scorer then melo is a 25ppg scorer, but does anyone honestly believe that gallo would be as good of a TS% player as melo if he got more touches and took more shots and drove a bit more to the basket?
That’s my real argument, and because of that, I still think melo is the better shooter. Aside from the fact that he takes circus shots in player’s faces and still shoots better then most of the league and scores elite ppg.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game and won 4 straight cups. Best overall player in the nhl right now=Pavel Datsyuk.
I'm also an optimistic Knicks fan, pessimistic Mets fan, and a happy Jets fan.
"Questions should include gallo to get 25ppg or be a 25 ppg player under the 3 food for thoughts"
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game and won 4 straight cups. Best overall player in the nhl right now=Pavel Datsyuk.
I'm also an optimistic Knicks fan, pessimistic Mets fan, and a happy Jets fan.
Those are the million dollar questions
I personally do not believe that if Gallo took as many shots as Melo he would have a .550 TS%. He is simply not at Melo’s level to be able to do that—and nobody argues that he is.
However, we already had someone who can take a ton of shots (high volume) and maintain a high efficiency as the cornerstone of our offense (Amar’e). So who is a better compliment to him? My argument would be that a medium volume, high-efficiency guy who scores 16ppg and gives you the cap space to address other needs is ultimately better for the team as a whole than another high-volume, medium efficiency scorer who costs like $20m/year, even if the latter dude has more individual talent.
Fair points. No one has a perfect formula in how to run a team. Time will tell.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game and won 4 straight cups. Best overall player in the nhl right now=Pavel Datsyuk.
I'm also an optimistic Knicks fan, pessimistic Mets fan, and a happy Jets fan.
This is why PER includes usage
It might overrate usage, but the idea is that it’s more difficult to have good percentages while high usage, and high usage opens up the game for others.
PER doesn't give much weight to efficiency though
In a way it treats usage a good thing in and of itself
that's why I generally look at win shares and PER
Since Win Shares overrates efficiency. And then look at some defensive numbers and try to throw in some common sense, like if their numbers are only good because they defend the worst guy on the team.
Sounds good in concept. But I don't really believe Gallo is doubled as much as Melo or guarded tighter or opens the floor more for teammates because he has a higher TS% then him.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game and won 4 straight cups. Best overall player in the nhl right now=Pavel Datsyuk.
I'm also an optimistic Knicks fan, pessimistic Mets fan, and a happy Jets fan.
Actually, we cant.
See…..in Denver, he was allowed to play in the manner he is used to. He was in his comfort zone, so he knew what to do when he got the rock. Thus, he was able to (sometimes) free up opportunities for the others.
Here, Coach is trying his damndest to get Melo out of the habit of going 1 on 1. So Melo, right now, is not comfortable. He is trying to find his way, as are the rest of the Knicks. So its not really possible for him to make others better at this point. Only when he has complete understanding of his new role here will we REALLY know if he can raise others level.
Admit this tonight though……Stat’s easiest 2 baskets were created by Melo. Can you at least admit that? Doesnt mean jack shit, just a shred of evidence showing that if Melo knows what to do without thinking, he CAN make shit easy for others. Same as Amare can and has.
The Triple Felt Goose movement shall live as long as I am around.
by JerzeeBalla on Mar 24, 2011 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Melo played just fine
And he’s been good with the Knicks. The Knicks are better with him on the court than with him on the bench. He’s a top 30 player. He has more than top 30 talent, but doesn’t use his head enough and he doesn’t make his teammates incredibly better like some guys here thought. His defense is still awful, and the rest of the team isn’t any good. Felton, Chandler, Gallinari have been significant contributers on their new team.
its too early to compare!
we are depending on our new knicks to start and supply 70%of the offense.
gallo chandler and felton are all roler players on a very deep team. its an easier transistion.
saying melo isnt making his teammates better and is a horrible defender(how?) is pre mature ejaculation.
"they try to do what he do, and been where he's been, but they get folded in two.....he's the dude"
by semsemma on Mar 24, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game and won 4 straight cups. Best overall player in the nhl right now=Pavel Datsyuk.
I'm also an optimistic Knicks fan, pessimistic Mets fan, and a happy Jets fan.
So far Felts, Chandler, and Gallo have been good performers there, similar to what they were here. But none of them are on Melo's level and that's why we made the trade. Either way, too early to say good or bad trade even if a lot of us don't like how
much was given up(as do I). And a little for the record, I could live with Melo playing mediocre defense in the regular season as long as he steps up his all around game in the playoffs, like he has in the past. And Melo has at times stepped up and played great defense so far, just not every night.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game and won 4 straight cups. Best overall player in the nhl right now=Pavel Datsyuk.
I'm also an optimistic Knicks fan, pessimistic Mets fan, and a happy Jets fan.
You'd think a superstar would play great defense more than 10% of the time
He makes stupid fouls, is a lazy defender, gets fooled too easily. Most guys he defends have season highs. He also blocks fewer shots than Chandler. Meanwhile, Chandler has helped solidify the Nuggets defense, and the Knicks defense has fallen to pieces.
Yes, Knicks defense got worse. But, Knicks offense got better. It's how the trade was gonna work out off the bat either way.
Yes, melo has his defensive struggles, but everything takes time and we honestly lack a strong defensive center in the middle where melo “could” follow his own man “closer”. It’s just a mess either way, and I think D’antoni is relying too heavily on help defense right now(and maybe to help our rebounding too), so melo and amare “can’t” play their guys tight around the perimeter. Who knows though, that’s just my guess. Either way, we get a defensive center that can grab boards and you will see noticable improvements all around.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game and won 4 straight cups. Best overall player in the nhl right now=Pavel Datsyuk.
I'm also an optimistic Knicks fan, pessimistic Mets fan, and a happy Jets fan.
the thing that bugs many of us
is that
Either way, we get a defensive center that can grab boards and you will see noticable improvements all around.
is just what we were all saying pre-trade. So we basically put ourselves in the same spot but with an older less flexable and less likable team.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Yeah, me too. Should of traded for a center 1st and got melo in the offseason.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game and won 4 straight cups. Best overall player in the nhl right now=Pavel Datsyuk.
I'm also an optimistic Knicks fan, pessimistic Mets fan, and a happy Jets fan.
This was the whole debate about the trade
We had a young team and alot of financial flexibility. We could’ve addressed needs this offseason like gotten a solid center and added bench depth. We had multiple draft picks and a young core, with a star in Amare and a borderline All-Star in Felton. And then we had the opportunity to do the same thing in 2012!
I’m pretty much over the trade in terms of players, we’re not getting them back. But I’m still bitter about how much we gave up, and how hard it will be to create a team around Stat and Melo
Yeah, it is what it is though. And if we add a quality defensive/rebounding center in the offseason, then we are a real chip contender.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game and won 4 straight cups. Best overall player in the nhl right now=Pavel Datsyuk.
I'm also an optimistic Knicks fan, pessimistic Mets fan, and a happy Jets fan.
That's a major need, but we're still pieces away
I’d say we still need another reliable 2-guard and SF/PF away. We need more consistent scoring punch and rebounding off the bench as well as a quality starting center
Center is the biggest problem, we fill that need and life is looking good.
Douglas is a decent backup point.
Fields can only get better, Mason Jr isn’t a terrible backup 2, but we could improve there no doubt.
Turiaf would be a quality backup if we could afford him and sign a quality starting center
I think we are looking really good going forward as long as we renegotiate billups for cheap, bring in a quality boarding/defensive center, resign extra e(maybe mason jr too), get rid of balkman(if possible), and either bring back turiaf cheap or sign Jerome Jordan(or both).
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game and won 4 straight cups. Best overall player in the nhl right now=Pavel Datsyuk.
I'm also an optimistic Knicks fan, pessimistic Mets fan, and a happy Jets fan.
bingo...
but then Melo opened his mouth about wanting to come to NY..and everybody started salivating…
the idea behind the trade was good.. just too many players, that’s all.. too many players..
One thing that still drives me crazy
Is that Melo said he wanted NY really badly. Never openly, but when everyone involved in the league is saying New York is where he wants to go, then surely there’s truth to it.
Then why the fuck couldn’t he wait till the summer! There are other players who are hitting free agency too! Everybody’s gonna lose some money! He wanted his money so damn badly, the team got blown up as well as the future.
It just frustrates me how nasty we could be with a more mature and slightly experienced Gallo, Chandler, Felton, TD, Fields and Mozzie, next to Stat and Melo with draft picks and bench guys like Walker, Turiaf and Extra E. I mean damn
and on top of it
so he could come to nyc for just a few months, now we have to watch crap basketball for the rest of the season. if we have to wait till next season to enjoy basketball how come we didnt just wait till then to do the trade?
What was the point of doing the trade now?
ugh. Everything is all broken. I finally had a team I was proud to be a fan of after like 10 fucking years of watching the most miserable collection of professional athletes ever assembled (Seriously, what franchise had a worst 10 years then the knicks?) and now it sucks again. out of absolutely nowhere and all so Melo could get an extra 20 mil. sorry 40 million fucking dollars wasnt enough for you.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
I understand completely
Like I still had pride in those teams, but I felt embarrassed when i would tell people I like the NBA and the Knicks.
I mean I think we all are forgetting some of the deficiences the pre-trade team had. There were times where they blew leads or played iso-ball, or couldn’t rebound. There were times I was like fuck it, let’s do the trade. But you got the impression they really cared when they lost. I really though by 2012-13 that team would be competing for a chip with the same core guys and pieces added over the next two summers
I'd thought you were more pro-Melo or pro-trade
This is mostly my thought as well, plus that Melo is good but overrated. The Knicks were worried he’d resign with the Nuggets to go after the money. Melo and the Nuggets both played the Knicks to get what they wanted. If Donnie held strong, Melo’s manager probably would have advised him that they were screwed and should sign with the Knicks anyway so they could be part of a good team and get endorsements.
no.
i am doing my very best to be pro-melo pro trade…
but no. I was crushed by the trade. And the ensuing play has only made it worse.
I never minded the idea of getting Melo, but I preferred in FA… or for a moderate package of Chandler, Curry and AR (maybe adding in the felton/burps switch).
But I’m tryin’, Ringo. I’m trying real hard to be the shepherd.
I want to like the trade. I am hoping something clicks and these guys figure it out cause I do see the value in having a player like Melo. He CAN be amazing… better then any of the guys that we gave up.
But I really question if he has the makeup to do it. There was something special in Chandler and Gallo and Felton. Something different then talent.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Worst part was losing Felton
Spotty as his shooting was, he was our undisputed floor general and co-captain and a good and willing defender as a team leader. Say what you will about trading two very good players for one very very good one, but losing our floor leader meant that we were going to be rudderless out there when we needed a rudder most. I was shocked when his name started to be included. I think Donnie, if I read him right, was shocked too. But that’s when Carmelo met with Dolan.
isnt he also in a new system?
and has compl;ained about being confused? Im not going to defend every arguement against melo. He isnt a above avg defender. But he isnt anywhere near trash. The stupid fouls, and getting fooled has a lot to do with him not knowign where to be and what responsibility he has at all times.
Havent you seen him D up good players? Lebron? Throughout that entire game?
a lot of the issues you have with him are directly related to his inexperience here.
"they try to do what he do, and been where he's been, but they get folded in two.....he's the dude"
by semsemma on Mar 24, 2011 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He defended Bron for one quarter
I’m not a hater on Melo’s game or what he’s done since he’s been here. There’s many more reasons than Melo that we’re losing. But he is a pretty shitty defender. People keep referencing his good D in other games, like the Heat, but most of that game, he didn’t even guard Lebron. Really only the 4th quarter
yea. but im not just talking about that one game, hes always been matched up with bron.
But it does mean something that in crunch time he was they guy on him. he isnt a good defender. but not shitty either. Only when he gets lazy…which hasnt really been the case since hes been a knick and felt he has something to prove on the defensive end… i mean. Since hes been a knick…have we really had any complaints on his defense? Not overal team ppg allowed..but melo’s defense particularly?
"they try to do what he do, and been where he's been, but they get folded in two.....he's the dude"
Yes to be honest
Lazy close-outs, not getting over screens, biting on pump fakes. Stuff like that. He hasn’t been the worst, but I do have issues with it
Melo can be a good one-on-one defender when he's locked in
His help defense, rotations, close-outs on shooters, the team stuff… not so much.
by flossy on Mar 24, 2011 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
agreed.
but i still dont think that means hes a horrible trash defender. maybe its just me
"they try to do what he do, and been where he's been, but they get folded in two.....he's the dude"
i honestly dont think Melo is capable of that
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
one might look just as easily at...
the posts by those in favor of the trade, and more specifically ‘melo… as “tiring”. once again, i think we’re all in agreement that it is early and that the future is indeed uncertain… and that patience will hopefully lead to greener pastures. but just as the proponents of the swap are entitled to hold true to their belief that all good will happen in time… so to are we entitled to continue to shed light on the quality of our play that we’re all being forced to endure as a result of the trade.
it helps us move forward… with the same hopes that the ’melo supporters have.
by bucketsncents on Mar 23, 2011 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree, but it is tiring reading it from both sides. All I'm saying is, too many people are jumping ship early positively and negatively for the trade, and it's annoying to constantly overlook.
It’s just weird though to look at the stats and then read the melo haters comments, because they are out of line. Melo has come here and brought his elite offensive game as he has done his whole career here, had some defensive struggles(as expected), and played almost exactly all around otherwise as he has in his past. Yet people still say he is underperforming and not earning his paycheck, which is something I just can’t understand. But it’s still too early to go there, yet his offensive game has meshed fine “so far”. It’s still early to talk about or convince people either way, but to say denver this or gallo that without solid numbers from every player involved in the trade as evidence to back your point is pointless emotion filled propaganda to me.
So, I posted the numbers and it honestly seems, “so far”, like we lost some defense, gained some offense, and lost our backup center. I’d honestly call it a push because it’s close so far, but it’s too early, and that’s just me.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game and won 4 straight cups. Best overall player in the nhl right now=Pavel Datsyuk.
I'm also an optimistic Knicks fan, pessimistic Mets fan, and a happy Jets fan.
Welcome to NY
I told you folks it is about perception and perception is shaped by wins. If the Knicks were like 13-4 right now, Melo would be the King of NY. But we are 7-10, which frankly is a record most new York fans believe we could have easily done over the last 17 games with Gallinari starting at small forward. So they don’t see the upgrade. And Will not see it until the wins come. You want to be in an environment that lauds a guy for putting up great individual numbers? Then Don’t go aon any site dedicated to a NY sports team when that team is not winning. Carmelo Anthony has been exactly as advertised. Everything he is doing for us he did in Denver. However, until the Knicks start winning, He will be an underperforming bum. And just wait it is still early. Pringles is taking all the heat right now. But sooner or later Pringles will be fired, and then what? Note to Carmelo Anthony fans. Knickle up, cause it is going to get ugly until the team starts winning on the regular. Pringles can only be blamed for so much, and after that folks will turn on Anthony. Note to Carmelo, Welcome to NY, now understand this your legacy is gonna go to shit if you don’t start winning baby boy!!!!!!
by Robert Currence on Mar 24, 2011 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Good points.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game and won 4 straight cups. Best overall player in the nhl right now=Pavel Datsyuk.
I'm also an optimistic Knicks fan, pessimistic Mets fan, and a happy Jets fan.
If the Knicks could have gotten Carmelo as a free agent for 12 million
There’d be very few objections to his play
So you're blaming him
because Donnie (Dolan/Isiah) pulled the trigger?
The Triple Felt Goose movement shall live as long as I am around.
by JerzeeBalla on Mar 24, 2011 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Blaming him for opening his trap
And wanting his money so fucking badly that he was gonna sign somewhere else if we didn’t trade for him. He could’ve rejected the trade when he saw we got rid of our starting lineup for him and waited til summer
Ozzie: A Push?
You don’t think he is underperforming. OK. He’s playing just as he has in the past. OK. Then why the fuck are the Knicks worse off and the Nuggets better off? Some defensive struggles? C’mon – some? Really.
We had a better TEAM before the trade. And I can say that and still be a loyal Knick fan. I love the Knicks and will never jump off the bandwagon (been on it for 50 years).
DOLAN MUST GO
DOLAN MUST GO
DOLAN MUST GO
And he can take Zeke with him. In the immortal words of Michael Ray Richardson, “The ship be sinking”.
DOLAN MUST GO
I don't think he is underperforming
He’s performing as he always has, but the Knicks traded away players who had a greater overall impact for this team, especially due to such a weak bench.
they traded a prius a motercycle and a minivan
for a corvette.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
good on gas fast and size
important specs for a good team vehicle. but now we got a strong engine with bad gas mileage and shortage of space. But getting the corvette is whats scarce. We can add a prius at anytime.
"they try to do what he do, and been where he's been, but they get folded in two.....he's the dude"
yup
its a pain in the ass to take the kids to soccer right now, but you can always find that minivan somewhere.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
lol. This is a funny conversation, but very logical.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game and won 4 straight cups. Best overall player in the nhl right now=Pavel Datsyuk.
I'm also an optimistic Knicks fan, pessimistic Mets fan, and a happy Jets fan.
Now you've gotten me trying to compare those guys to cars
Felton might be a motorcycle, cause he’s fast and kinda doesn’t give a fuck like a lot of motorcyclists. Chandler might be kinda like a Honda Civic or something in that he’s nice and efficient, but not really the tops in terms of anything. Gallo’s got me puzzled. Mozzie is definitely a minivan
exatly
we gave away PIECES that were important. Not players that are better.
The trade was for the FUTURE. Meaning it gave us more holes on the current roster, but it made our strong points stronger. The goal is to now fill those holes with other role players in the offseason and in trades/draft.
All this comparison specualtion bull shit is b/c of the hype that the names Carmelo Anthonaay and ChAUncy Billaps bring to the media. Its hard to compete w/o a start and its hard to compete when new players arent fluid in the system. You remember when felton was shit here and everyone was crying? And that was with training camp practice. Give the guys time bro. billups siad it last night. hes played in what, 6-9 games?
"they try to do what he do, and been where he's been, but they get folded in two.....he's the dude"
by semsemma on Mar 24, 2011 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
love this explanation
we now have greater potential with substantially more holes. The poor performance lately can mostly be attributed to the holes, not Melo and Billups.
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Mar 24, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
But those holes may very well be here to stay
considering we are capped out and have traded away most of our draft picks for the next several years…
As talented as Melo is, we took a team that was already too shallow and further gutted it in order to improve at positions that were already among our strongest.
At this point, I am beginning to think our only hope is to give up the dream of CP3, buy out Billups, throw the money at a decent center and a cheap-ish backup guard this offseason and hope that Melo can play point-forward the way he did last night on a consistent basis.
trades can come out of nowhere
we got mozzie for nuthing. Extra E came out of thin air. Landry was a 2nd round pick…
we have a first this year, and we can possibly get another one next (we got DWTDD for nothing).
Billups can possibly be traded too dont forget. That is a big money ticket coming off the books that some contending team may love to have (can you imagine C&B in Oklahoma backing up Westbrook?)
Player movement comes out of nowhere (ironically enough, this was my argument against trading the farm for Melo). As long as the Don is still running the show anything can happen.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Hell yeah.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game and won 4 straight cups. Best overall player in the nhl right now=Pavel Datsyuk.
I'm also an optimistic Knicks fan, pessimistic Mets fan, and a happy Jets fan.
we would be
but do you really think NY fans can wait a year or two for a big man to develop?
They would be calling him a draft bust during pre-season.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
As long as he's young
And showed promise. Plus, since he wouldn’t be straight out of high school, he should be further along than Bynum when he was drafted.
do you have someone in mind?
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Unfortunately
I don’t know if there’s a next Andrew Bynum. I think it’s more difficult to draft good players. However, a bad trade can kill a team for a longer time.
take some tiem and find out how J. Jordan is doing overseas
cuz im too lazy
"they try to do what he do, and been where he's been, but they get folded in two.....he's the dude"
Agreed, and well put.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game and won 4 straight cups. Best overall player in the nhl right now=Pavel Datsyuk.
I'm also an optimistic Knicks fan, pessimistic Mets fan, and a happy Jets fan.
dont forget
the contract re negotians of billups. We’re going to resign him for a longer contract 2 years with an option maybe. So we will get more cap space.
"they try to do what he do, and been where he's been, but they get folded in two.....he's the dude"
That would be money. Renegotiating him to a smaller salary if we are keeping him.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game and won 4 straight cups. Best overall player in the nhl right now=Pavel Datsyuk.
I'm also an optimistic Knicks fan, pessimistic Mets fan, and a happy Jets fan.
Damn flossy
That is what I was thinking as well. Don’t pick up Billups’ option and use the money elsewhere to fill in holes.
Thank you... Thank you...
we have more holes. We gave away ALL our big men.. We gave away 2 guys that can play multiple positions.
We do not have a TRUE backup PG.. We do not have a starting or backup TRUE CENTER. Our starting SG is a rookie, and the backups inconsistent. Amare’s backup doesn’t play well enough to give Amare sufficient rest.
I figured the trade would hurt us in the short term… and this was made even worse by trading away 1-2 too many players .. but I figured we wouldn’t see the good results till next season
You don't think Douglas is capable of running backup PG for 15-20min/gm?
He has the tools, just needs to be smarter with his decision making. That’s good enough for me.
Turiaf is a true backup Center to me, and a quality one at that.
Who are you considering amare’s backup?
And agreed, we couldn’t realistically expect good results from this trade till next year.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game and won 4 straight cups. Best overall player in the nhl right now=Pavel Datsyuk.
I'm also an optimistic Knicks fan, pessimistic Mets fan, and a happy Jets fan.
yup has the tools,
just not ready yet (douglas), needs to keep his head up and pass the ball quicker, waits too long. many times I see Amare waving hands like HELLO, and tony doesn’t pass.. Amare NEEDS to call him on this
Turiaf in terms of what he does, yes, a good backup center.. but heightwise, not …but ok, I take this one back…
amare’s backup : exactly, doesn’t really have a definite backup..jeffries: whatever… turiaf: prefer him backing up a C.. everybody else: stop plug
By the way, what happened with picking up Earl Barron?? IMO, better option than Jeffries
I can agree with that.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game and won 4 straight cups. Best overall player in the nhl right now=Pavel Datsyuk.
I'm also an optimistic Knicks fan, pessimistic Mets fan, and a happy Jets fan.
I also saw that
In the magic game, they had been playing well and had taken a lead in the second quarter when Toney got the ball and raced up the court. Amar’e was streaking through the lane with his hands up and Toney needed to go for the jugular there but he backed it up. They cut to D’antoni and he looked like his jaw had been wired shut.
Toney’s a bit too afraid of turnovers. Right now, in this situation, they should be playing high-turnover games while they figure this out. But I think they’re playing afraid to fuck up and maybe that’s D’antoni’s fault a little too.
Some writer twitted recently
If this trade wasn’t for this year, then why aren’t tickets free for the rest of this year? Instead ticket prices went through the roof, even though any rational fan would have known they wouldn’t be any better.
i dont disagree with your article or fanpost.
but about the tickets? come on. you know this is a business. first and foremost.
the knicks are not a nfp organiation. meals on wheels they aint.
They should be Meals on Wheels
Cuz lots of us pro and against as well as neutral are losing valuable carbs and nutrients throwing excessive fits after each game. They should also pack rogaine for those of us who’ve pulled hair and prozac for Robert. Oh yeah, and a “Fan Appreciation Pack,” which would include a roll of toilet paper, a dozen rotten eggs, and a tour bus to the Dolan residence. Lastly it will contain a free subscription to MSG so if this all goes bad we can at least enjoy the magnificent stylings of our man Clyde.
It was a trade for the future, as they say.
You’re right of course, the players traded away were far better than their reputations around the league, and that’s without the orange and blue glasses on. We’ll see what kind of future comes, and what sort of role players we can fill in. I’d like to draft the best available on the board talent-wise, regardless of position… we could use anyone decent coming off the bench.
Hoping Gallo returns one day, and not just to drop 40 on the Knicks and leave.
Most Definitely
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfGTVp-gHtU
My problem with
this whole dumb ass beef is what it is doing to this site.
Anyone here can believe whatever they want. Haters gon hate, lovers gon love. Chapelle said it best. Point is…..You CANNOT let how you feel about the circumstances affect how you approach this site.
Before the trade, even with the constant arguing about what was best, everything was on the up and up. Now most of P&T has devolved into everyone whining about either the Melo hate or the Melo love. The trade happened. Cant reverse it. Can talk about it, but too much is too much. Hearing people bitch about Denver everytime we lose is lame. Hearing people point at Melo whenever we win is lame. The Fire Dantoni train is lame. All of this bullshit is just that.
I say that to say regardless of what side of the fence you’re on, remember why the fuck we are here. All this vitriol in these comments is sickening. If you dont wanna root for Marlo and Burps, then dont. If Melo’s the only Knick you care about, so? Point is, dont let your tunnel vision seep into the site and keep this stupid war going. People been at war all fuckin year.
First war – LeBron or no LeBron?
Second war – Amare or Lee?
Third war – Trade for Melo or wait?
Fourth war – Call Denver’s bluff or pull the trigger?
Fifth war – Are we fucked or is there hope?
Next it will be “Fire Coach D or stay the course?” Shit is corny.
The Triple Felt Goose movement shall live as long as I am around.
by JerzeeBalla on Mar 24, 2011 12:39 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
So you'd prefer...?
Everyone says Go Knicks and there’s no discussion?
Look at the posts from last year or before. Everyone was saying that Harrington either stunk or didn’t. Same with Nate Robinson. Same with Jeffries and his defense or uselessness.
No.
Dont misunderstand me.
What I would PREFER is that every once in a while, the warmongerers find something else to talk about. Like maybe an offensive scheme to utilize the talent we have. Or what the team should be focusing on for the playoffs. Or breaking down our potential matchups.
Anything besides “This trade sucks” or “Melo sucks” or “Melo is teh greatest.”
See what Im saying?
The Triple Felt Goose movement shall live as long as I am around.
by JerzeeBalla on Mar 24, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes
But I’m pretty sure that most of us aren’t better offensive minds than Mike D’Antoni. And considering this team can’t beat anyone, who cares who they play in the playoffs right now? Since the Knicks will probably be the 7th seed, they’ll probably have to play Boston, which would be doom.
Boston would be the worst team IMO
for these guys to play.
Teams that know what they are doing will slaughter us. Teams that just rely on talent can be beaten.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Its just
something to talk about……
Im just tired of the redundancy. I know we aint better offensive minds than the Coach, but we still discuss offense round here right? We couldnt touch any Knicks player 1 on 1 (maybe JJ) but we still break their games down right? If we gonna talk Knicks, lets talk Knicks.
And saying the Knicks cant beat anyone is false. Anyone can get got. ANYONE. Does it look good for us? HELL NO. But all it takes is us to put a few games together and suddenly it will be “lookout, the Knicks are hot heading into the first round….” blah blah. Shit, Miami went from unstoppable to doomed to elite in a 2 week span.
The Triple Felt Goose movement shall live as long as I am around.
by JerzeeBalla on Mar 24, 2011 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I've mentioned Amar'e, draft picks, and playoff possibilities.
I feel like I’m commenting on here all the time, and somehow my comment count looks pathetic compared to some of these guys who I’m guessing don’t have jobs.
the trade ruined my internet.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
the answer is..
First war – LeBron or no LeBron? no lebron
Second war – Amare or Lee? amare
Third war – Trade for Melo or wait? trade for melo
Fourth war – Call Denver’s bluff or pull the trigger? pull the trigger
Fifth war – Are we fucked or is there hope? there is hope next year but not to much on this year
Next it will be "Fire Coach D or stay the course? let see next season i really hope he will not be fired and will stay as knicks coach so that he can assemble his team next year on his and donnies terms not on dolan and isiahs terms
the trade made the Knicks suck
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
fact...
we were better… now we’re worse.
by bucketsncents on Mar 24, 2011 7:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Fact
for now. You act as if the Knicks can NEVER be better than we were pre trade. We all know that isnt true. We didnt make a Gasol trade here, we can still improve. But yes, right now we are worse.
The Triple Felt Goose movement shall live as long as I am around.
by JerzeeBalla on Mar 24, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game and won 4 straight cups. Best overall player in the nhl right now=Pavel Datsyuk.
I'm also an optimistic Knicks fan, pessimistic Mets fan, and a happy Jets fan.
Rec'd. Well put.
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game and won 4 straight cups. Best overall player in the nhl right now=Pavel Datsyuk.
I'm also an optimistic Knicks fan, pessimistic Mets fan, and a happy Jets fan.
I think it’s pretty obvious that Denver’s playing on areniline and passion after the trade which is why they are playing at such a high level. They got rid of their franchise player for 3 players who now got a chip on their shoulder. And everyody forgot about them, so they’re out their tryna prove everybody that they’re are a better team. Which is a lie because you’ll see Denver get knocked out early in the postseason.
The Knicks on the other hand was dealt the superstar and all the hype to go with it. So they were playing on a high. Usually when you do that, reality has a hard way of setting in. The Knicks, despite a big man, are actually better once they find themselves. Which actually might help them come postseason. Since no one expect anything out of them now, they might catch someone sleeping.
ITS CALLED DEFENSE! D.E.F.E.N.S.E.! I MAYBE-I MAYBE WRONG...BUT I DOUBT IT!
I summarily disagree on this statement, except the adrenaline and passion part
The 3 players always played with a chip on their shoulder because they’ve always had something to prove, even here…remember all the arguments on this that and the other concerning those 3 and starting or 6th man or whatever. The fact is they’re playing the same with pretty much the same results. They’re also playing with a MUCH deeper team. They’re playing fast and loose with better defenders all around and a better front court RIGHT NOW thanks to cohesion and depth and a good center…not great center, but leaps and bounds better than what we have and Amar’e don’t count. Whatever position he plays, C or PF, the other is less than adequate and Amar’e s D has been less than adequate. We can’t answer our side of the who got the better end as of today because we gave up depth for a superstar. We took the longer road because we now have to fill in the blanks which Denver already has done.
Whether Denver wins or loses in the 1st round is irrelevent. 2 Teams play a series and one has to lose and until it happens you have no clue what will happen. I’m gonna root for them but I’m not jumping on their bandwagon. I’ll root for Knicks and if we don’t win another game I’ll not jump off our bandwagon, which by the way is a bandwagon I was never on. I’m a Knick fan, period. We didn’t make this trade, and if we don’t like it, we don’t have to. But if we’re Knick fans, then we have to accept it. So who cares then what happens in Denver. The truth is, yeah we got the Melo and the hype. Whoopdeedoo. The chip should be on our shoulder because we’re the ones with something to prove. And since we’re not proving much right now, wouldn’t you rather have the chip on OUR shoulder and see the guys play like it? I would.
Let’s not come up with shallow moral victories. Denver IS the better team right now cuz they’re playing like it and they’re winning. RIGHT NOW. We can start winning and make noise in the playoffs and maybe we become the better team, or we could lose in the 1st round or fall out completely. I’d like to shake the hand of the guy who can tell me our future unquestionably. But until we complete this process, I don’t think we find our answers til we complete the roster next year. Denver essentially traded for our depth and flexibility and essentially didn’t have to change their offense to blend them in. Our offense isn’t clicking for a full 48 minutes and we don’t have the consistent shooters to fight our way or the bangers up front to close a game out. Safari’s a glass house, JJ has no O, and our PG’s have yet to prove they can break down the pressure D or PnR the good (and even the bad teams) have thrown at us in 4th quarters.
It’s gonna take us time to click, weve seen glimpses and God help opponents if we do. But the reality is we’re and unfinished product that should make the playoffs this year. Mission 1 completed. But next year is when we can realistically, looking at things as of today, expect to make some serious noise. Not hating, just being real.
Good points
Proud Islanders fan, the organization that iced the greatest team to ever play the game and won 4 straight cups. Best overall player in the nhl right now=Pavel Datsyuk.
I'm also an optimistic Knicks fan, pessimistic Mets fan, and a happy Jets fan.
yea, but no one is going to sleep on us.
we are now a team thats regardless of record. Is going to bring the best out of our opponent.
"they try to do what he do, and been where he's been, but they get folded in two.....he's the dude"
That draft was a hugh mistake
“That’s even with Ty Lawson as the PG, a guy who was considered too small to defend at the NBA level, but who the Knicks could have and should have drafted. I strongly supported drafting him, but Donnie got a big corpse called Jordan Hill instead.
Donnie also passed on Jennings, Collison and DeRozan" A terrible waste of a draft pick in Hill.
Those guys are all below average
Everyone knew Ty Lawson was the most productive PG and his numbers translated well.
I agree with you, but there's a good chance whoever we drafted would have been traded away
to clear cap space for whathisname no matter what.
hindsight on the draft
is easy to do.
Lawson was passed by a good number of teams. Nobody knew just what would ahve happened.
it makes more sense to congratulate the gms that make a good pick then it does to blast a gm for making a bad… IMO pulling Landry out of the 2nd round more then makes up for the swing and a miss on Hill (who is still a young big man btw).
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Disagree
23 year old PFs just don’t get better. Jordan Hill doesn’t have it. Pretty much all stat guys advocated drafting Ty Lawson and not any of those other players. Landry’s good for a second rounder, but a guy like Lawson is much more rare. I’d even say that Gallinari is harder to replace than Landry.
there have been players that stat guys advocated drafting that have not turned out too
I am not saying that Hill was a great pick. I think he was the worst case. Remember, that had Minn not went all crazy and drafted 2 pg (which shocked everyone, and turned into a pretty poor decision looking back) we would have rubio, flynn or curry on our team right now.
Gallo was a great pick for Donnie as well. Nobody drafts great 100% of the time, and sometimes things you never expect work out and sometimes it doesnt. You def take it into account next year and try to make an informed decision… but 90% of half the time the draft never pans out as expected.
I remember the buzz about Lawson. I liked him too… but nobody knows for sure what will happen…
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Eric Gordon probably would have been better
But Gallo was a very solid pick. So were Toney and Landry. It’s unfortunate this undeserving team will make the playoffs, since ticket prices will skyrocket, and the draft pick won’t be as good.
eh
whatever with ticket prices.
I could only afford a game or two a year anyway, so whatever to missing on that.
If we thought the team was gonna get better anyway then the ticket prices would have risen anyway.
No matter what, most of us were gonna get priced out of games next season… melo or no melo.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
the lakers must be kicking themselves
for not keeping their pick and getting toney for themselves
then again, they have a ring. so im sure its not keeping them up at night.
i dont think Jordan Hill was in their plans
I think Minnesota threw everyone for a loop when they drafted two pg’s back to back.
I don’t think anyone expected that. It probably royally fucked up the knicks draftboard. especialyl considering we were right after them.
Flynn isn't any better
So if Donnie was counting on him, oh well. He could have gotten Lawson anyway.
truf !
johnny flynn is terrible.
if i remember correctly. everyone was raving about his leadership qualities predraft. apparantly, he interviewed like a God.
i think that was a year when intangibles were so in.
sometimes the team you get drafted by can have a profound imact on how you play
like how Landry fit in great with what we had… if he was drafted by someone else, he may never have played.
Maybe Lawson really took off cause of Burps? If he was drafted here and immediately thrust into the starting role, maybe he would have stunk and people would have called him a bust.
maybe flynn is miserable in Minnesota… maybe staying in NYC where he would have tons of cuse fans (he went to cuse right?) would have propelled him to another level. Maybe he hates the coach over there… who knows?
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
by gbaked on Mar 25, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well the triangle probably isn't the system for him
But he hasn’t really shown enough at any point to justify taking him that high
such is the nba draft
hit or miss… there are very very few sure things.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
DOLAN MUST GO
Nuf said, but not for the last time.
unfortunately
he’s the one guy who can’t be fired or forced out
by Taylor Made on Mar 24, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
He can if he goes to jail or goes bankrupt
Or does something illegal, like Steinbrenner did many years ago
No
Steinbrenner was banned for 2 years in 1974 for illegal campaign contributions. And then for life in 1990 (he was reinstated, obviously) for paying a guy $40,000 to get dirt on a baseball player.
So if Steinbrenner does something like that, he can be forced out.
Oddly enough
And I’ve said this all year, Jordan Hill is a guy we could actually really use off the bench. He’s not that great, but he’s 6’10", plays with energy, is a decent rebounder, and can run the floor
yea. but at the time.
he was a overall top pick and is underachieving in respect to where he was picked. But lets say he was picked at the bottom of the 1st or in the 2nd rd. Hed be a solid role player. Id take him back here no problem with those new expectations
"they try to do what he do, and been where he's been, but they get folded in two.....he's the dude"
Yeah agreed
I never watched him in college, but when I read about him on the possible draft prospects, I think it was on the Knicks’ website, I was really intrigued. I remember thinking it was a good pick.
Then I watched him in Summer League….
solid role player
not exactly solid role player…but u get what im saying.
"they try to do what he do, and been where he's been, but they get folded in two.....he's the dude"
reply fail
"they try to do what he do, and been where he's been, but they get folded in two.....he's the dude"
Yawn
Hope your knee’s okay after that jerk it did.
by Ten Ton Hammer on Apr 10, 2011 10:36 PM EDT reply actions
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