Knicks: Too Little!
by east_harlem on Apr 28, 2011 1:57 AM EDT
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Hey guys, my first FanPost, hope you enjoy. As the NY Post reports, the Knicks are focusing on getting Wilson Chandler back. As a passionate fan of good defense and someone who plays the Center position in pick-up, it bothers me that this is the Knicks' first priority after Billups. Wilson Chandler is a good player, but spending a cool couple milli on yet another swingman does nothing to address where we really come up short. Folks, not only are the 'bockers the victims of the 1st round's sole sweep, but we are were also the smallest playoff team in the Eastern Conference. Smaller than the Pacers, Sixers, Bulls, Hawks, Magic, Heat, and of course the Boston Centrics who caught us with the flawless victory last week. The Knicks have speed, but every team that has won at least one has both speed and size. We don't. And Amar'e is not getting paid $100 million to get beat up by the league's 7 footers as a center. We have a size crisis and it has to be addressed before trying to turn back the clock on the Melo trade, as if Wilson Chandler and his stellar shooting was our key to a championship (he shot .377 in April and .276 against against OKC...#%^&$%^!!!!!). Stats after the jump...
ACTUALLY NO, before the jump, just understand, HE SHOT .276 IN THE PLAYOFFS, he just got paid $2 million. Jared Jeffries took as many shots in about as many minutes against Boston and averaged .478. o.0
UPDATE #1 4/29: Apparently D'Antoni intends to solve his big man problem by putting Wilson Chandler at PF and Stat at Center...Stat disagrees, as would anyone who likes getting a return on a $100 million investment...via Newsday
UPDATE #2: Another flawless victory video representing the green v. orange sweep...just cuz.
Does size matter? Yes it f!cking matters. This is the NBA, D'Antoni is the coach, and the Knicks play no defense. Size matters. It matters when you're 20th in rebounds. It matters when you're 28th in points allowed. It matters when your post-trade solution to these issues, Jared Jeffries, can guard 3-4 people at once, none of whom are his defensive assignment. It matters when the only guy with a C next to his name on your roster is chronically hurt in half the games. It matters when you get swept 4-0 because you can't get a couple of late game stops in the paint. As a New York fan, giving up control of the paint is a cardinal sin, and it's been truly painful to watch these guys do it day in and day out while claiming to contend for a chip. Knicks: stop messing around with Wilson Chandler, Jared Jeffries, Isiah Thomas, and all the shoulda coulda's of yesteryear, and get a damn Center already.
Here's some basic numbers from ESPN.com's rosters. Again, it's not all about height, it's not all about weight, it's not all about rebounds...it is about points allowed, in a way...but more importantly I don't think it's a coincidence that the Knicks lack in all these categories. As a team the Knicks just don't have what it takes to consistently mix it with any of the East's best in the paint.
Team--Players 6'9+--6'11+--250+ lbs--Rebounds--Points Allowed--Won 1 playoff game?
Miami--7/15-----------4/15------6/15-------9th-------------6th-------------Yes
Bulls---7/15-----------2/15------2/15-------2nd------------2nd-------------Yes
Celtics-7/15---------- 4/15----- 4/15------ 29th----------- 1st------------- Yes
Hawks -9/15---------- 4/15----- 3/15 ------28th -----------9th -------------Yes
Magic --6/15 -----------1/15 ----4/15------- 6th ------------4th ------------Yes
Sixers --6/15 -----------2/15---- 2/15 -------13th ----------12th -----------Yes
Pacers -6/15 -----------2/15 -----3/15 -------5th -----------17th -----------Yes
Knicks-- 5/15---------- 1/15------ 1/15----- 20th ----------28th ----------Sorry
It is hard to accept that the Knicks, defined by stellar forwards Amare and Melo, are the little guys of the East. But we are. And that factor probably had more to do with our sweep at the hands of the league's most physical team than anything else. We need size and rebounding, and Chandler doesn't give it to us. I know he likes New York, and for some reason we want to give every bum from Rautins to Renaldo to Jeffries a goddamn second chance, but all that's gotta stop at some point.
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nice first post
but don’t get wrapped up in anything the post says. they need to sell papers every single day. they either sellin you on a dream or a nightmare. and its not news, its speculation.
/// aighttho.com \\\/// twitter.com/aighttho \\\
the post is garbage, and berman is the old dirty napkin at the bottom that has sucked up all the grease
but at the same time, I dont doubt the knicks want Chandler back. He was really starting to come into his own, loves the city and should have his price knocked down a bit after a bad playoffs.
With the reupping of burps, there isnt gonna be much cap space anyway. If the knuggs will take fields and some filler back for him. It could be very worth it. We need players… and his ability to play many positions is very valuable for this team.
He wont get signed to quick. The whole lockout CBA crap needs to happen before anyone starts signing anywhere.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Guess what position he cannot play...
If we keep playing Amar’e at C that guy is going to last another year tops.
by east_harlem on Apr 28, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
We didn't play Amare at center very much this season
"I feel like this: You can't hate me." -Toney Douglas
by The Rooster on Apr 28, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
we did
and we need someone else to play there more.
He should play a little at the 5… based on matchups… but we need a big bruiser or two onthis team to help STAT out.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
do you guys think Faried can play center ?
I wouldnt mind a two headed monster of Faried, Turiaf. with a European import soaking up a couple minutes here and there
bro, he's undersized as a PF.
this is what I’m talking about. we need somebody who can reliably box out dwight, jermaine, joel, elton, horford, and hibbert. I don’t care how long your arms are, at 6’8 225 you are as effective in guarding your position as this man:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxL11RIEb5Q
by east_harlem on Apr 29, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
no
if getting chandler gets in the way of getting a center, clearly (obviously) its not worth it.
But who knows where or for how much we use going after the middle. The big guns seem like a longshot (not impossible.. but not that likely) and some of the other options may not be as expensive.
Chandlers stock dropped, and he is a RFA so he has some say in where he goes. He has always been a more thoughtful guy then many other NBA players (more emotional, which has been good and bad) so he may actually take a discount to come back here. If he signs an offer sheet with us, denver may be interested in a S&T around fields because… hey… why not?
We have LOTS of holes. Center is just one of them and CHandler can help a TON by his versatility.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
i would disagree that we are stacked in any position except 3/4's
who score a ton, shoot a ton and dont like defense.
That doesnt sound like IllWil. Actually that sounds like the opposite of him.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Right now we have JJ, Shelden, Amare, as 5ish 4s, and Balkman, Shawne, and Derrick Brown as 3ish 4s. Ultimately though, that’s 6 big men that shouldn’t be playing Center.
yes
that is just highlighting the fact we have tons of hols at 5ish 4s and 3ish 4s as all those guys except for Amare are at best nice backups.
Chandler on the other hand is better and younger then all these guys. he can play the 2 and 3 and 4 with more upside then all those guys put together.
But your point is that they need a center more. I will not argue this with you… I agree 100%.
But when you have a young, skilled guy that WANTS to come play for you that is in a situation where he lost some of his luster (other teams prob were scared off by his denver numbers) knows the system and coach and is liked by them… you take advantage of that.
Center is priority #1. but chandler is def a nice piece that we can get back that will help our team.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Dream tradE?
Chandler, Felton, Nene for Billups, Fields, Walker, Shelden, Mahmoun’s, Katz’s Deli, and some sour D?
Donnie's bout to beat the NBA game like he got a cheat code
make that Sunny D and you got yourself a deal!
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Cap?
As long as Knicks willing to pay, Cap is not a problem. Teams can go over salary caps with exceptions etc…
Knicks will add size. Taht kid Jerome Jordan (?), he can play a little bit. He play one full season oversea. If you add a legit center you are looking at Amar’e at power forward and if you have a shot blocking center, Amar’e can roam a little bit and be that weak side blocker.
Everyone is trashing D’Antoni for defense, when they play against the Boston, they did D extremely well in the first game when everyone is at full strength. So.. while D’Antoni can’t teach D like Doc Rivers, but it’s not as bad as everyone says.
In Walsh I trust
The first game did have pretty good defense
But again, we lost when Jermaine O’Neal took over, which he wouldn’t have been able to do if Jared Jeffries could mix it up in the paint. I like Jerome Jordan, but we need a Center with at least a season or two in the NBA. Big Rome may be improving elements of his game overseas, but almost certainly not toughness.
East Harlem: Phenomenal first post.
Though you need to understand the New York Post is trash like has already been mentioned. They sell papers on rumor mongering. I don’t think Walsh will use what little resources he has to get a player he doesn’t even remotely need.
What resources?
If I am correct then Knicks actually save money if they trade Billups for Chanlder and Felton.
In Walsh I trust
by newknicks.com on Apr 28, 2011 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Awesome post!
Keep it up!
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Good post, first timer.
I’m not gonna echo the New York Post sentiments, but it’s tough to guage priority mere days after the season has finished. Just cus the Knicks are reported to be interested in Chandler, even “focused” doesn’t necessarily mean he is their top priority.
One thing about NY is we ask questions in a flurry. Ask ‘em faster than people answer ’em. But more importantly, most professional teams don’t just do one thing at a time. Do you really think the Knicks aren’t looking at a ton of names and situations right this moment? Do you really think the Knicks started doing this once the season ended for NY?
Chandler is just one of many names out there. A question as inocuous as “Do you want to have Wilson Chandler back in NY?” could generate a shoulder shrug from Walsh followed by “Yeah, sure, we’d like him back, OK.” But the NY papers turn that mostly innocent comment into “KNICKS FOCUSED ON BRINGING BACK CHANDLER!!!!!!!!!!”
we tend to overreact to things is my point.
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Apr 28, 2011 4:40 PM EDT reply actions
i dont think the problem is a small team
a smaller faster team could conceivably win if they are that much faster… (i know this can be debated, but lets just agree to disagree on that point righ tnow)
the issue is that the guy who suffers the most on his body on a small team is the Center, and it doesnt make sense to put one of your best players who has shaky knees in the spot of most abuse.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Chicago-Pacers is an example of what you're talking about
Lakers-Hornets is an example of what I’m talking about. Also, Hawks-Magic – a team of good big men beats a one with a great big man and decent small men.OKC – also very big.
nice post
i wanna go play mortal kombat now.
yo i think walsh has been lookin for a competent big man since forever, so i hope we get one this summer. donnie found one in bumfuk russia last year, so they’re probably sendng knicks scouts all over the world right now. maybe the draft will great for us too. i remember last year it sucked, but only cuz im an idiot (well, my feelings then, are still right about rautins). i wonder if any knick fan can get really mad this draft, given donnies rabbit out the hat trick last year.
i'll not say good or bad post...
i’ll just congratulate you on taking the plunge and risking ridicule. and regarding your sentiment… absolutely true.
and just out of curiosity… how many of you would do a sign and trade with the clippers to make sure we didn’t get outbid for deandre jordan: say billups, jerome jordan and landry for mo williams and deandre jordan (and filler if necessar? i can see the clips doing this to get a vet in billups and his expiring (to go after dwight next year who wants LA) along with a strong swing man in landry and a filler big in jerome jordan. we get mo who knows how to play with stars (and is only 28 and can score) and our big young in deandre.
i know i know… trade machine crap… i just like the idea.
no offense
but the clippers would be idiots to take that trade. deandre jordan is no longer under the radar, tons of teams are interested.
As good as Landry played Jordan is much better than him at the moment and he’ll command more than Landry and some random tall jamaican we happened to draft but didn’t think enough of to keep on the active roster.
What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!
by Lord Smackington on Apr 28, 2011 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
granted, talent wise, they take a small hit...
but cap wise, it’s huge for them. they get billups for a year to work with bledsoe and the blake, and then in 2012, they make a run for dwight who wants to be in LA. the blake and dwight would be insane with eric gordon and bledsoe.
they might not want to invest long term and money in deandre if they have intentions of hitting the 2012 FA market with guns ablazing.
by bucketsncents on Apr 29, 2011 6:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree
but I’m almost positive they could get the similar savings elsewhere while taking less of a hit talent wise
Houston could send them Budinger
MIA could send em Chalmers
Golden State could send Reggie Williams and Thornton.
Too many teams out there looking for upgrades at center to low ball em
What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!
by Lord Smackington on Apr 29, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
don't see those moves giving them the space for dwight...
but maybe. shit, i’d throw in 17 to get mo and deandre.
by bucketsncents on Apr 29, 2011 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
lol, oh...thought we were talking Deandre Jordan
What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!
by Lord Smackington on Apr 29, 2011 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
wait...nevermind
What did the 5 fingers say to the face?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7CBwX1891A
HaHaHaHa!
by Lord Smackington on Apr 29, 2011 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
why would the clips
trade a talented young center that, by all accounts, is well-liked and a great fit for the team?
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Apr 29, 2011 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Because they could have Jerome Jordan!
And an aging, disgruntled Chauncey Billups.
Honestly people. I think it’s funny how people post trade ideas with seemingly no thought of giving the other team something they want or need.
Maybe this trade works if you give them pick #17.
think about it and don't just reflexively respond...
obviously it’s a long shot to actually happen, but it does make sense.
mo williams, eric gordon, aminu, blake and deandre OR
bledsoe, gordon, landry, blake and dwight
what would you choose as your roster for the next decade?
chauncey is the cap room and the mentor for one year for bledsoe. landry is a young, solid 3, and jerome jordan is a young big with some upside to backup or partner with kaman for now… and they get the room for dwight who already wants to be in LA.
and we get a 28 year old starting, scoring point who can play with stars… and a 22 year old big with loads of upside to go with melo and amare.
c’mon… it’s a smart move.
by bucketsncents on Apr 29, 2011 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Ooohh
Right, you just assume that you can then get Dwight Howard. Now it makes sense.
Trade away good young talent for aging vets so you can the the opportunity to sign a big name free agent, even though your squad has absolutely zero historical success in doing so and your owner is widely regarded as the worst in professional sports history. I mean… c’mon!
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Apr 30, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
They already have a max cap slot in 2012 anyways
even if they re-sign Jordan
"I feel like this: You can't hate me." -Toney Douglas
didn't know we're considering landry, jerome jordan and dwight howard...
as aging vets. didn’t know you thought so little of chauncey as a mentor for young bledsoe and leader for young up and coming team.
so if you had the choice of lineups, which would you choose for your future?… AND DON’T AVOID ANSWERING THE QUESTION!
bledsoe, gordon, landry, blake and dwight?
mo williams, gordon, aminu, blake and jordan?
by bucketsncents on Apr 30, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Bledsoe and Mo should be switched
anyways, bad question:
a) it’s not an either-or – LAC has the cap room either way
b) only one is a sure thing. the other depends on Howard choosing the worst-run franchise in sports over many others.
oh yeah, “don’t avoid answering the question.” My answer is peanuts. I can’t think of any other way to answer, other than with a non-sequitur.
You should replace Dwight with Kaman’s expiring and then ask “which team would be more attractive to Howard as a free agent?”
"I feel like this: You can't hate me." -Toney Douglas
jeez, where's the imagination?
and the “don’t avoid answering the question” was for bonner ‘cause he’s sometimes inclined to just lob grenades from the outside chuckling and giggling… and i’m just curious as to which lineup he thinks is more dangerous.
and again, while the chances are obviously very very slim, i do still think both teams end out satisfied with this hypothetical trade… including dwight if he were to end up playing next to blake, gordon, landry and bledsoe… and our knicks if we end up with mo, any 2, melo, stat and deandre.
by bucketsncents on Apr 30, 2011 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
and damn...
if they’ll still have cap room, than they can bring in CP3 if they wanted. a sign and trade for dwight, clearing more cap room makes a whole lotta sense for the clips regardless of whether or not it’s with the knicks… but yeah, their braintrust is lacking in brains.
by bucketsncents on Apr 30, 2011 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair..
Landry’s value probably plummeted like Chandler, since he sucked in the playoffs. If we did that trade pre-playoffs I think it’d have some merit, but now I dont think the pieces are enough
Donnie's bout to beat the NBA game like he got a cheat code
I think they both still have value
what they did in the regular season (and in Chandler’s case, for a few seasons) can’t be overlooked.
"I feel like this: You can't hate me." -Toney Douglas
nice job on your first post!
its hard actually posting your own post.. if you dont know what you’re talking about you can get eaten up easily and embarrassed
by the_knicks_are_back on Apr 29, 2011 6:31 AM EDT reply actions
Not really sure about this
I mean sure, they need height. But they defended the Pacers of the world just fine when they had Chandler at the 4.
I’d say they more so need to get some athletic bigs. If the dude is 6"8 250 but can body up a 7fter (pause), then he can play center for us. Remember Pringles teams had a similar dude do just that and they went to the WCF (Diaw of all people…).
I think we just need a person that can do that and make shots. If he’s a 7fter, fine. But if he’s 6"8…that’s also fine.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
But Mozgov mostly didn't play
My problem with Chandler is that his rebounding is only decent. With Amar’e also being merely decent in that area (Turiaf too, and from all indications, Jerome Jordan as well) I think we need a great rebounder and Chandler isn’t it.
melo is a good rebounder...
and so is fields.
If Donnie focuses on getting a 5 who is a solid boarder, then we should be ok.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Yeah but it's more than rebounds
Fields, Melo, Chandler and Amare could probably rebound well enough together, but nobody’s going to be that scared driving into the lane against them. Likewise, centers with any kind of offense will have their with us all day. That’s why I hope they keep Turiaf, bring back Jerome Jordan (even if to just play spot minutes), and get a legit 7 footer who can body big guys and rebound and just be a presence. There are a multitude of these centers available
no doubt
we need a big enforcer in the middle more then we need a guy like chandler…
but chandler would be a nice addition to the team.
I miss the ninja. He was my fav player.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Same I grew to love Wilson
And would welcome him back with open arms. Just not at the cost of not getting a center.
By the way, does anybody else feel like Shelden Williams can possibly become our hustling, bruiser off the bench to replace Amare at the 4? I think with a hard summer’s work he could play that role for us. Almost like a Big Baby, but not as skilled
I wouldn't put too much stock into Shelden Williams becoming a decent basketball player
plus I’m not sure we’re re-signing him
No longer on the fence about Carmelo's awesome game face
We lost to everyone
but how we lost, we didn’t lose the same way
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
yes...
like, looking at the roster, if you get two reliable centers, one who can rebound and another for the second unit in case turiaf collapses, that will take immense pressure off amare and the defense and will turn us into a good rebounding team. then, if we add Wilson to back up the wings and add another shooter, we’re pretty much ready in case the same injuries happen again. If you we can bring on Jordan, get one of Nazr, Dalembert, Ty Chand, Kwame Brown, at that point I would even be happy with crazy-ass JR Smith and Wil if we can get ‘em for cheap. I think that’s enough role players to gave Amare and Melo a shot to snuff out the East.
Great first post.
I totally agree with you, but unfortunately we gave 14 million dollars to Chauncey, and we’re basically stuck.
Hopefully Donnie can pull some strings and make a trade that will free up our cap space.
Jerome Jordan is definitely not the answer (not for a few years anyway). Do you guys seriously think we would have sent him overseas if the coaching staff thought he could contribute even a little bit?
Not only will we never be a serious contender without a real center, but it is also a great way to wear down Amare and shorten his career.
SPEND ON BIGS
by StarksMiddleFinger on Apr 29, 2011 7:37 PM EDT reply actions
Hey
If we got DeAndre Jordan and brought over Jerome Jordan, we could have ‘The Jordans’ platooning at center for us. How cool is that?
as long as jerome is constantly close to a treadmill with a carrot stick in front instead of a box of donuts sure
Victory goes to the courageous!!
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