Column A or Column B
by Robert Curre on May 3, 2011 2:06 PM EDT
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PrintI have a buddy who wants the Knicks to acquire Javale McGee and Nick Young from the Wizards, and he figured out that it could be done, The wizards sign Young and trade him to the Knicks for Turiaf, Douglas, and Walker. His argument is that because we have Billups we could probably sign someone like TJ Ford as a back up for cheap. He also thinks that Denver may choose not to match an offer for Wilson Chandler so we could do such a deal and get him back using the MLE. Well I did some thinking and based on discussions I have had with you guys I am sure most of you would be in favor of such a move. So I would like to present you with two potential Rosters and ask you guys which one is more likely to win the Eastern Conference.
Roster 1 Starters Back ups Billups Ford Fields Young Anthony Chandler (Wil) MLE Amare Shawne McGee Jerome Jordan?
Multi year deals for Chandler and Young no cap space in 2012
Roster 2 Billups Douglas Fields Redd Anthony Grant Hill Amare Shawne K. Brown Mohammed/Turiaf
Brown, Mohammed, Hill, and Redd all on one year deals. Depending on cap between 10-18 mil is cap space. Chris Paul potentially in play 2012, hold bird rights on all other players with zero cap hold requirements. Which team gets further in the post season, and which team is better situated to contend going forward.
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How are you getting Wall? You get Nick Young and Javale McGee! that is it!
and Silent Wil for the MLE! let’s not get greedy! Leonsis would shoot Grunfeld if he even dreamed about trading Wall!
I joke, I joke.
That would be sum shit though.
Maybe if we absorb Wall’s contract?
You serious?
"TV pays the bills in the NBA, but it doesn't do the game justice. I wish anyone who doubts the effort level could sit courtside one time, because they would be blown away by the ferocity. The players are just so good, so fluid, it looks effortless on TV." - Bill Walton
Because the wizards do not want Nick Young or Javale McGee
Young will be renounced unless a deal like this comes along and the Wiz are probably going to renounce McGee too unless they can trade him. I know some here think they are exciting players with lots of upside, but I watch them alot cause I live in DC and they are too exceptionally low IQ basketball players who will never amount to much. You should have seen the Minnesota vs Wizards game where McGee and Randolph were going head to head. Bone head play for Randoplh oops now Javale makes a bone head play! Those two went back and forth for an entire quarter playing any fuck up you can do I can do better. But each had a couple of nice Youtube worthy dunks and likewise a couple of blocks too that made their 2010-11 highlight mixes!
But really though
The Wizards could get more back for those two than the pu-pu platter your buddy is serving up. They may be bone-heads but there is still a market for them, especially McGee.
what planet do you live on where these 2 YOUNG PLAYERS would be renounced. you’re usually on point with your posts.
Nick Young will be renounced because he counts 9 million against the Wizards cap, and Jordan Crawford appears to be a much better
Player. McGee they are trying to shop and if they cannot make a deal for him then he too will be renounced for the same reason, they take a huge cap hit on players they do not want. So the planet I am on is earth and I live in DC and heard Grunfeld basically say just that on Saturday!
by Robert Curre on May 4, 2011 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree Crawford may be better
but I think they will hold onto Young. They also like McGee a lot and seem to be excited about their young core of Wall, McGee, Young, Crawford. Even Blatche kinda fits there too.
Not convinced they want to part with their youth movement for veterans who’s main attraction is the potential to be expiring contracts.
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on May 6, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
If the price was equal
I’d go with McGee and hope he continues to improve. You know what youre getting with Dalembert, whose stats have been declining at an earlier age than most centers. That’s a red flag for a player I’m not that big on anyway.
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on May 4, 2011 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Gotta disagree
McGee ceiling is higher but he is a project, with Anthony Randolph-esque basketball smarts. His grasp of the fundamentals of defense make Amar’e look like Bill Russel, and on team that’s trying to win ASAP that’s really not going to fly.
Dalembert is no savior but he’s a very competent defender, he can run the floor, and he would be by far the best rebounder on the Knicks. He didn’t really fall off that much last year, he just got shafted in a trade to an awful team that jerked his minutes around. If you look at his month-by-month production, once he started getting real playing time again he was averaging 12, 10 and 2. That’s about as good as we could possibly hope for.
true
youre probably right. I’m a sucker for upside. Dalembert is the safer and therefore probably better pick.
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on May 4, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't know about ECF…
but I think roster 1 is better out of the 2 you mentioned….I would actually start Young over Fields, but he would be a big 2, he can score …I like TJ as a backup, he looks to set people up, but he has isues staying on the court so that COULD be a problem. Def like Mcgee as a starting C…Will would bring punch off the bench
Why would the Knicks ever do that?
A center who’s horrible on defense, and the guy who has the NBAs highest “black hole rating” (shoots the highest % of times when the ball is passed to him)
"TV pays the bills in the NBA, but it doesn't do the game justice. I wish anyone who doubts the effort level could sit courtside one time, because they would be blown away by the ferocity. The players are just so good, so fluid, it looks effortless on TV." - Bill Walton
I think I like column B more for some reason
but (maybe I didn’t understand what you wrote) how do we have 8-10 mill in cap space to sign Hill, Redd, Brown and Mohammed?
he's saying we'll have 10-18 mill for 2012 FA
if we sign a bunch of one year contracts for hill, redd, brown, and naz.
by bobitostretch on May 3, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
OK I see
so the MLE goes to Brown and the rest get one year minimum deals… maybe it’s possible, I don’t know. But I don’t see Brown coming here for the minimum, we would need to sign him long-term, he had a pretty solid year in Charlotte this year.
Actually the MLE does not have to go to one player
It can be split in multiple ways. You can actually use the MLE to sign two or even three players or just one. the LLE can only be used on one player.
by Robert Curre on May 4, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
how bout we sign josh howard?2G
"LOVE & HATE C AN NEVER BE FRIENDS"
by FRESH DA FARI on May 4, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Nick Young
is a bad fit on a team with Melo and Amare. I like McGee, but I don’t think any team is going to be able to pry him away that easily. Even if he hasn’t fullfilled a lot of his potential, he still is young and big enough for the Wiz to ask for more than what the Knicks are willing/able to give.
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on May 3, 2011 3:25 PM EDT reply actions
yeah, he's definitely a scorer
but dude seems to need a high volume of shots.
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on May 6, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
meh
I am not feeling either of those rosters you listed. Just taking a quick glance at them, I dont see any real improvement that would help us next year.
i do not think the wizards would trade us that
and i do not think either of those win us a championship.
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was i this buddy?
‘cause i’ve mentioned both wizards… so count me in. with coaching, and another year or 2 of seasoning, young and mcgee could be dynamic. young with his shooting and scoring, and mcgee with his rebounding and shot blocking.
no, they’re not the brightest bulbs, but with our seasoned star/vets, their jobs won’t be too complicated. young can come in and shoot, slash and score… mcgee… jump high, swat shots, change shots and dunk on peoples heads.
not sure if the wiz would do this biz… but i wish.
mc gee is a good pick up if we traded for him but nick young? i dont think so.. plus wizards wouldnt want to trade their starting center that has a lot of upside in him
for roster 2 its a good option also getting hill and redd as a 2 or 3 rotation will bring scoring punch on our roster mike dantoni loves veteran shooters so. it could happen just for next season only.
if not mcgee, they do have a glut of bigs...
while none proven. seraphin has the looks of a young kurt thomas. booker could be a spark/brandon basslike player off the bench. even ndiaye i liked at rutgers… long with bounce, height and a body that could carry more weight.
nothing to bring the chip, but good depth size.
by bucketsncents on May 3, 2011 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions
even if they don't want him
they know his perceived value around the league. He’s young, very tall and very athletic. Those qualities alone warrant more than what the Knicks can give.
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on May 4, 2011 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
i read...
they wanted blatche gone more than mcgee… and i wouldn’t want that headcase
by bucketsncents on May 4, 2011 7:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Remember Jamal Crawford?
Remember how Crawford was so awesome and simultaneously so frustrating sometimes?
Well, Nick Young is a lot like Jamal Crawford, except not quite as awesome, and a bit more frustrating. He’s basically a poor man’s Jamal Crawford.
I loved Jamal, but his deficiencies (non-existent defense and tendency to jack foolish shots) hurt the team. No way should we bring in a guy with even more deficiencies, and less ability to take over a game.
SPEND ON BIGS
by StarksMiddleFinger on May 3, 2011 8:46 PM EDT reply actions
though he did evolve...
and is doin’ work in the playoffs now.
by bucketsncents on May 3, 2011 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Jamal is a good bench player
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
He's not any better now
Maybe better shot selection, but still isn’t really that great. He just gets credit because he’s on a team with Al Horford.
Shot selection was one of his biggest issues
aside from defense
How does that give Jamal credit?
He’s actually improved in a number of ways from shot selection, becoming a more willing passer, and he’s become pretty adept at running the pick ‘n’ roll or the pick ‘n’ pop with Horford.
His defense still sucks, but he actuall has gotten a tiny bit better
He had his best season by far last season
This season he regressed to the norm, but he still has a good reputation because now he’s considered a winner. His assists are down and he doesn’t rebound at all anymore. He is having a fantastic playoffs so far, though.
maybe he's played better because of a better team around him
and he isn’t required to be a #1 or #2 option. Shit, I’d say hes #4!
Dude got into an ideal situation and he IS playing much better because of it. I wouldn’t knock him for that at all. Good for Jamal!
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on May 6, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
This is it.
He was never suited for the #1 role we foisted on him, and his evaluation suffered for it. Now that he’s settled into the role he’s best suited for in the league at this point in his career, perceptions are changing.
by GAx on May 6, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Because then we hire him for an exorbitant salary
Otherwise he’s not in the business of helping the Knicks.
by superturboultra on May 8, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
No he would not he would get the better of the deal
He is going to renounce Nick young, so getting something back for him in a trade works. Also they do not want McGee and given that he will count 8 mil against their cap at the end of the season they would like to move him. The get Douglas, who frankly is a better player than either Young or McGee right now. Bill Walker could fill their hole at sf and if he does not work out he is an expiring contract. Turiaf gives them an experienced player up front and he is also an expiring contract. The real question is why would the Knicks make that trade.
by Robert Curre on May 4, 2011 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Dalembert is probably going to be our best option at the 5 spot, but sefalosha won't be a FA
I’d be willing to pick up a pg along with Sammy though. I think Telfair would be a smart pick up for us, as long as his crazy ass cousin stays away. He’s always had good/risky vision and he started hitting 3’s this year, albeit at a 1/2 a game clip. Still think his youth and ties to the city may spark him.
Like the second roster better
Never been a TJ Ford fan I’d rather get Ronnie Price or for a couple mil more JJ Barea (now he would be fun to watch in this offense).
Other than that, I don’t get all the hate for McGee/Young. It seems like both had great games against us, and Young is shooting close to 40% from 3. Sounds like he’d be a good fit in this offense. I love McGee’s potential, though it could be Anthony Randolph part 2 if he comes here.
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
JJ Barea is awesome
He carved the Lakers up last night. I could see Dallas resigning him though because he’s had such a stellar year.
I he was put in the right situation, I could see him becoming a quality starting PG
Bringing up the exception doesn't invalidate the rule
Mugsy Bogues once averaged a double double for a whole year… do you want a 5’3" back-up PG?
Besides, Stoudamire was a defensive liability even when he was good. And Barea is no Stoudamire.
There are alot of short PGs who succeed just fine
I mean Stoudamire was like 5’6", Bogues was 5’3", so yeah they are exceptions to the rule. But Barea’s one of those listed a 6-foot, actually about 5’10", but so was Iverson and so is CP3. Now, Barea can’t even compare to those guys, but is there that much of a difference in 5’10" Barea and any other number of 6-foot guys?
Not saying size matters, but if they’ve got the skills, I’m not gonna fret over an inch or two. And I do believe Barea’s got the skills to be a decent player
Barea can’t even compare to those guys
You said it yourself. Iverson and Chris Paul comparisons? Come on man.
You completely disregarded what I said after that
Talking about size here. Talent wise, even if Barea was 6’2" next to guys like A.I. and CP3, JJ couldn’t compare. But I was saying that does Barea being under 6-foot really hold him back that much from being “a quality starting PG”, which was my original statement.
I didn’t call him elite like those guys were/are, but I think can be a solid starter despite his size, just as many other PGs are who are of similar stature
by WSD on May 8, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
There's a big difference between
I do believe Barea’s got the skills to be a decent player
and
I could see him becoming a quality starting PGr
You have to have seriously elite-level talent and athleticism to be an above-average starting PG if you’re less than 6’0". Aside from the players you mentioned by name, who are all HOF-caliber and in no way comparable to JJ Barea, I can only think of one off the top of my head: Jameer Nelson. Despite being a good bit better than Barea, Nelson is also a flawed player who benefits immensely from having Dwight Howard in the paint to help cover up the fact that pretty much any PG that small will be a defensive liability. Undersized, shoot-first PGs are role players, not quality starters on contending teams. There is a reason the Mavs would rather start 87-year old Jason Kidd.
I didn't really say anything that ridiculous to warrant this argument
I said Barea could be a quality starting PG. Ray Felton is hardly 6’0" and is pretty easily in the top 15 PGs in the league, without elite-level athleticism.
5’8" Nate Robinson averaged 17ppg and 4apg coming off the bench. 5’6" Earl Boykins had a stretch where he played a ton of minutes this season and lit up the scoreboard in Milwaukee.
Jameer Nelson, for as good as he is doesn’t possess elite-level talent or athleticism, He doesn’t really average that many assist and isn’t really that great of a ball mover either.
I’m just saying, given the opportunity, Barea could be a decent starting PG, despite his size and generally a shoot-first mentality.
And who wouldn't start Jason Kidd over Barea?
He’s one of the best PGs ever, a future HOF’er and is still one of the best PGs in the league. He’d start over like 90% of other point guards in the league
All I'm sayin is
I see JJ Barea as an undersized combo guard at best. Guys like that are useful, but they come off the bench for a reason. The Knicks need a true starting PG who can hold his own defensively and I just don’t see that in Barea. Your mileage may vary.
Oh I don't want him on the Knicks!
I’m just saying I think he has the potential to be a good starting PG somewhere. Whether he’s given the chance or not or ever finds the right place is another issue. But I think he could be
damon stoudemire
wasnt very good.
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on May 6, 2011 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions
he was very good for a solid span of time
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on May 6, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
When Toronto had nothing else and the system was built around him shooting as much as possible, yes
by superturboultra on May 8, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
exactly javale iz young n upcomin
"LOVE & HATE C AN NEVER BE FRIENDS"
by FRESH DA FARI on May 4, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
The funny(sad) thing is McGee and Young ARE one of their two better assets.
And the only possible reason to want them here is hope that Amare/Melo Stares of Death will be enough to keep those chuckleheads in line.
Blatche? Fuck that dude.
by GAx on May 4, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Please no more shooters.
Amare, Anthony, & Douglas never pass the ball
& absolutely will not take any fewer shots next
season.
Please identify
the Chinese players in Column A and B. McGee and Young don’t appear to be Chinese.
I'd take Column B
and draft Tyler Honeycutt. This guy seems to be a taller more athletic version of Landry and I think he would work very well with Melo and Stat.
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
plus he's already got that jimmy.
but i’m still for drafting whoever the best available is, no matter the position.
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