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Moving up (not to the East side)? and Singleton/Selby bit

According to SI.com:


Don't be surprised if one or more of the following teams move up in the draft: Golden State (No. 11), Houston (14), New York (17), and Charlotte (which a source says is considering packaging its Nos. 9 and 19 picks to move up)SI.co

 

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Star-divide

 

Also for those who want Singleton:

Chris Singleton, Florida State's 6-foot-9 junior, doesn't fill a position need for the Knicks. But the athletic small forward fills a well-chronicled overall need: defense. Though Knicks president Donnie Walsh said during the Chicago combine he would like to add a guard to the roster, he added he will go with the best player available if there's a significant difference at the 17th pick when the NBA Draft begins June 23New York Post

I personally don't want Singleton b/c I don't think we need a back up tweener forward (especially if we keep Shawne).

For the Selby supporters:

For the past few weeks we've had Josh Selby going No. 17 to the Knicks in our Mock Draft. The Knicks have been on him for a while and think he could be the type of player who could blow up in the NBA. But sources say Selby struggled a bit in his first workout -- so much so that the Knicks have asked him back for a second workout. Selby may not be the lock I thought he was to go to New York.

Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/HeadlineStories.asp?lc=&c=1&TEAM_ID=13&PLAYER_ID=&hd=20110611#STORY_33494#ixzz1OzE3Coex

I noted earlier in comments that Chad Ford had placed Selby as our pick for most of his mocks which is interesting considering he usually has one of the most accurate mocks. He also uses sources from teams to try and figure who they'll pick (not just his pick for a team, like most mocks). So when he had Selby there for so long, it had to mean that he knew something we didn't. I guess the Knicks like his star potential and I see this as a high risk, high reward pick. I like the fact that he worked out with Chauncey and is buddies with Melo. To me, I could see him being a good compliment to Stoudemire and Melo because defenders have to respect his scoring ability. I see him as the next Monta Ellis, if developed correctly. But it is interesting to hear that he struggled (and I think he was in the weaker workout, not the big name one with Brooks/Klay/Jimmer/etc.).

 

But back to moving up.

Now this isn't any new news, but it's worth talking about. Earlier there were reports about moving up for Jimmer by adding Landry/Douglas to our pick. Personally, I'd be interested in moving up but only at a certain price and not for Jimmer (and I'm a huge Jimmer fan, I just think if we were to get him, it would be at 17). But for a big man (ideally Biyombo), I'd be willing to give up one of them, to get  a pick in the 7 to 12 range and select the best big available.

Now looking into the teams in that range (7-12), I could see all teams wanting to trade down. But a team that I think would be the best fit for us to trade with, is Milwaukee. The Bucks could use a back up to Jennings and a SG, so I think they'd  be interested in #10 for #17 and Douglas (and cash). But I'd only do that if Biyombo or Valanucias (buyout could be a problem tho) is still there or if one of the better PG prospects fall (Knight or Kemba).

Also I've read that the Kings are absolutely enamored with Jimmer Fredette. So if we somehow pick him up at #17 (unlikely, but possible), I could see them wanting to workout a deal around whoever they draft at #7 (Knight, Kemba or Biyombo) for Jimmer and Douglas (and cash). But this is a little tricky because it relies on Sacramento drafting one of those 3 and Jimmer falling to us (and even then, I'd be tempted to just keep Jimmer).

 

Okay so thoughts? opinions?

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hey we play douglas at the 2 and i think jimmer is the same height

the thing I’m scared of is this is eerily familiar to when stephan curry came out and they were saying the same stuff about him…. he cant be a point, he cant defend NBA talent, and he is a college star and thats it ….. if Jimmer were to fall to 17 it would be a huge mistake not to take him in my opinion. look no further than the numbers curry puts up to get my case.

by SLAUGHTERHOUSE on Jun 11, 2011 12:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Good point, but Steph is more of a pure point than Jimmer. (I think)

I don’t think it’s fair to say just b/c Curry worked out, means Jimmer will. Now, don’t get me wrong, I do think Jimmer will be good, but not as good as Curry or Knight (but better than Kemba possibly). It’s nice to use player comparisons to try and predict a rookie, but it’s extremely inaccurate. Just like how ppl say don’t pick Motiejunas just b/c Bargnani is a horrible rebounder. Comparisons are good to get an idea of a player’s skill set, but they can’t be used to determine what kind of career some1 will have.

by hvino on Jun 11, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also I see two major differences between Curry and Jimmer (could possibly make Jimmer better)

Jimmer seems much, much stronger than Curry. Not just build, but they way he plays, which is very important in the NBA. While Curry is probably faster.

by hvino on Jun 11, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

and he has a bigger chip on his shoulder

i agree with the comparison thing is inaccurate but it hit me when i heard all these things about jimmer and the first thing that came to my mind was hearing dick vitale saying the teams who didn’t take curry would be sorry and vitale said the same about jimmer and up to this point vitale was spot on when it comes to curry.

all im saying is i dont believe in tradeing up to get him however if he drops he should be at the top of our list. (on second though i wouldn’t be mad if we traded up to get him) he would be great in our system especially.

by SLAUGHTERHOUSE on Jun 11, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

hmm

moving up may cost us too much because moving Douglas or Fields is dumb imo

I am a big Selby fan, the Monte Ellis comparison is awesome
imagine Selby with our current starting roster, and we add a big in free agency, I think Selby could be a huge steal for us

Bruce Carter+Sean Lee=BRUCE LEE!!!!

by Archie Barberio on Jun 11, 2011 1:22 PM EDT reply actions  

I doubt if the Knicks got Jimmer at #17

that we’d be trading him. I think he’s the Knicks #1 player on their board aside from Irving, Williams and the 2 foreign C’s.

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Jun 11, 2011 1:43 PM EDT reply actions  

how many damn guard do the kings need i cant see them taking Jimmer

beno udrith, tyreke evans, marcus thornton, there is only 2 guard spots

by SLAUGHTERHOUSE on Jun 11, 2011 2:05 PM EDT reply actions  

I'd pass on Singleton

Our two forward spots are locked up for the next 5 years, and we have a need at the three other positions. It just seems like a waste of valuable resources.

Jimmer has always been interesting, but I just don’t see 16 teams passing on him. What about if he falls to #15, seeing if we can work something out with the Pacers? They’ve already got a PG they like, and the difference in picks wouldn’t cost us much.

by superturboultra on Jun 12, 2011 10:13 AM EDT reply actions  

I understand your sentiment, but we're not getting a starter here - not that i'm saying you think Jimmer is a starter

Yet, the fact that Singleton can guard 2’s is something that can’t be overlooked. Don’t be fooled by his ‘position,’ if he can guard a 2, he can play the two. He won’t be an explosive two, who can create his own shot, but like a player like Klay Thompson, he’ll be able to spot up from downtown when Melo and Amare are doubled.

And did I forget to mention he’s the best defensive player in the draft? That’s ultimately what sells me on him. We all talk about how important it is to improve our D, yet we talk about drafting Jimmer – the epitome of no D.

by Kylero on Jun 12, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Even if we don't get a starter, a player like Selby, Klay, Motiejunas, Biyombo (if we move up, and he'd prob start half way through the year) and Jimmer would all play a lot more minutes than Singelton.

Also, It’s not very hard to find a combo forward to come off the bench. We have a good one in Shawne and hopefully we re-sign him, making Singleton pointless. Where as some one like Selby/Klay/Jimmer/Brooks could come in and give us a solid 25 mpg off the bench with good production in a position that’s harder to fill. Even more so with any big. Considering our lack of bigs and our limited resources to obtain one, odds are a big would get a lot of minutes on this team, even if he is a rookie.

by hvino on Jun 12, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm definitely hoping for a starter

Maybe not in year one, but this is right outside the lottery – statistically speaking, we have a good chance of landing a starter. http://www.mynbadraft.com/nba-draft-picks/17th-overall/170509/

And I think Jimmer could definitely be a starter in the NBA.

Don’t be fooled by his ‘position,’ if he can guard a 2, he can play the two.

Are you saying that his offense is so negligible that it doesn’t matter what he does on that side, or that he’s capable of playing at the NBA level at the 2 spot (providing outside shooting/slashing/secondary playmaking)?

by superturboultra on Jun 12, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I actually don't see Jimmer's defense being a problem as long we have Billups.

CB can cover most SGs and we could do what Dallas has done recently and just play JJ and Kidd together a lot.

by hvino on Jun 12, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

The only reason JJ and Kidd even sort of works

is because Dallas has Tyson Chandler and/or Brendan Haywood lurking in the paint to clean up after them. We’ve got… Ronny Turiaf? Amar’e? It’s pretty bleak over here.

by flossy on Jun 12, 2011 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Chris Singleton...

is a horrible perimeter player. I would never want to see him at the 2. Shawn Marion guarded dwade in the finals and russell westbrook at times…

I sprinkle diamonds on everything I eat...1. its the most baller shit ever! 2. it makes my dookie twinkle baby.

by GottaLoveMelo on Jun 13, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

confusing...

so are you saying singleton could be extremely useful because he can guard 2’s like marion did?

by bucketsncents on Jun 13, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

sorry. I should have expounded.

I’m saying I wouldnt like him there. Shawn Marion played 3 and 4 for dallas. Only reason he could guard wesbrook for instance is because they also had the luxury of putting Jason Kidd somehow on Durant with effectiveness. Then deshawn on Thabo or harden. And that was at the 3 spot mostly.

Chris cant play 3 or 4 and get significant minutes for obvious reasons.

I think it hurts the team more if he runs the 2 and is in for defense only. He’s not a good shooter and not a good ball handler.

Being a huge Carmelo Anthony fan, I always watched him so I dont know if knick fans will fully understand this reference but: its similar to dahntay jones when he played with the nuggets in 2009. WCF Nuggets vs Lakers. Dahtay Jones was in the game primarily to guard Kobe. On the offensive end, Kobe just roamed and would help double team Carmelo off of dahntay jones because he couldnt shoot. And Dahntay is a better ball handler and slasher that Chris.

I sprinkle diamonds on everything I eat...1. its the most baller shit ever! 2. it makes my dookie twinkle baby.

by GottaLoveMelo on Jun 14, 2011 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, I can understand that. I'm not completely sure he can guard the two either, but it was a thought

Yet, I still think it wouldn’t be a bad pick. Amare is going to have to play some five this year (unless someone GIVES us a C), so Singleton will have opportunity to play the four for at least 12-18 minutes (figure out of the 36 minutes he plays, 12-15 will be as C and he still needs to rest) along with Melo resting.

The kid will get burn if he’s picked. Like I’ve said before, we just have to trust the Knicks actually draft the best player available. We all may not like the pick, but that would be hard to do even if it was a good draft.

by Kylero on Jun 14, 2011 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not saying he's my number one. I'm not even sure I have a number one, merely just a list of players I'd be happy with.

Anybody that says they’d take Singleton, or any of the other aforementioned names you brought up, before Biyombo is on dope.

And needs to share. We’re all friends here.

by Kylero on Jun 12, 2011 1:51 PM EDT reply actions  

Agreed!

Now if we’re talking Singleton vs Faried because all of the guards and centers we want have already been snatched up, then NOW you’ve got a debate.

by superturboultra on Jun 12, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

New topic of debate:

Hypothetically, the Knicks have moved up to #10 and the previous picks happened according to DraftExpress’s board http://www.draftexpress.com/ . What do you do?

by superturboultra on Jun 12, 2011 2:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Draft Alec Burks

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Jun 12, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good at a little bit of everything, I’d take that as a complement to our stars.

by superturboultra on Jun 12, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I take Biyombo without even regretting it. By far the best player for us to draft (in the entire draft).

Our biggest need is a defensive big man and Biyombo brings exactly that. I’d give up Landry and #17 if it meant getting Biyombo.

by hvino on Jun 12, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

biyombo...

no doubt. he can start day 1. he can be an anchor for 10 years if surrounded by offense. he can keep stat fresh.

hell no to klay… if we’re at 10, gotta go big.

by bucketsncents on Jun 12, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just hope

Biyombo is more like Sege Ibake than Monute Boll

Bruce Carter+Sean Lee=BRUCE LEE!!!!

by Archie Barberio on Jun 12, 2011 9:32 PM EDT reply actions  

and more ben wallace...

than joey dorsey (though i still secretly think joey has something to offer).

by bucketsncents on Jun 12, 2011 10:31 PM EDT reply actions  

I've been thinking, what about Kemba Walker. Now before you call me crazy, hear me out.

I was looking at the teams before us and 3-4 teams need a PG. Toronto, Utah, Sacramento and maybe Charlotte. Now lets say the draft goes how most expect and Irving goes 1, DWill goes 2, Utah grabs Knight at #3, that leaves Kanter and Valanucias as bigs available for Toronto. So I’d think for Toronto it would be between those 2 and Kemba. Lets say they draft a big, that leaves Sac left, but they really like Jimmer now. So lets say they grab Jimmer. The only team between us and Sacramento that would want Kemba (without intentions of trading him) is Charlotte (and even then, they have bigger needs). So could we get lucky and either have Kemba fall to us or be able to trade up for a low cost (Douglas) and pick up Kemba?

by hvino on Jun 13, 2011 3:53 PM EDT reply actions  

The issue is not whether Singleton can guard elite g/fs. He probably can. The issue is minutes bro. With Melo and Stat playing 38mpg in playoffs how many minutes will he get to make a difference on defensive end.

Since 2000, the 17th pick has yielded 2 All-stars(Josh Smith, Danny Granger). 2 Really good starters that might be all-stars(Jrue Holiday and Roy Hibbert) one really good Shooting Guard(Desmond Mason) and a solid bench player(Shawne Williams). Thats a 45 percent yield rate for starters and a 54 percent yield rate for rotation-quality. Thus I think it is imprudent to draft a player that couldnt beat anyone for a starting position a.k.a Chris Singleton. there are some starters in areas of weakness in the teens PG-SG-C. Walsh will find em.

by bababooey2 on Jun 13, 2011 4:44 PM EDT reply actions  

so you're saying why bother having any talent at all on the bench at our...

3, 4 spots? because again, certain guys are versatile and big enough to play anywhere from the 2-5 depending on matchups… and these kinds of players are invaluable to winning championships.

by bucketsncents on Jun 13, 2011 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Look, D'antoni, no matter the position, will find a way to put the best 8-10 players on the floor

And IF we really think that Singleton is the best available at the time we draft, then we will draft him and Mike will find time for him.

Everyone is so against taking a 3-4 because of Amare and Melo, but lets be honest. Amare WILL have to play some 5 for this team next year. We just don’t have the necessary cap room or draft pick to get Biyombo (if there isn’t a trade) or money to get a Tyson Chandler. So, with that said, It’s not unlikey a 3-4-5 of Melo-Singleton-Amare would see the floor.

Lets not go crazy people. In the end we ALL want the best player available. We just have to trust the Knicks in picking that player.

by Kylero on Jun 13, 2011 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

seems a boatload quicker than JJ...

and with his wingspan and agility, he can definitely guard the 2’s… especially the stronger ones like wade. granted, he’s not the shooter we’d like, but if we run out there billups, melo, stat and shawne… that’s four shooters, and singleton could just do what singleton do.

by bucketsncents on Jun 14, 2011 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll be honest, the sound of that does not inspire me

If he’s guarding the 2 we still have the same problem we always did with a bigger guy who may or may not be able to close out on the perimeter shooters cuz he’ll be doing what Gallo and Fields did, playing off to offer help D and rebounding and honestly E is not the same player when the other team is keying on his corner poops and what not. He wasn’t exactly a gazelle taking it to the hoop. I’d rather a bigger man in the paint allowing our wing defenders to play up closer on defenders. Singleton to me is a great 2nd teamer on this team behind Amar’e and against smaller lineups. Having him guard 2’s still leaves us with the same gaping hole we had in the paint last year.

by screamedia on Jun 14, 2011 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

agreed...

a man in the middle is a necessity. if singleton comes, he’ll be useful, but my preference is also a big.

scary thing is there aren’t that many legit bigs… even markieff measured at 6’7.75… same as singleton.

only guys actually 6’9 and over who we’ve been talking about are jujuan johnson, jermemy tyler, benson, vucevic and leuer… gary mcghee (who i’d love in the 2nd round) is just under 6’9.

by bucketsncents on Jun 14, 2011 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah I should've been more thorough there

I don’t mind a PF /SF here for the 2nd team as long as they’re the best available and there’s plans in place for a 3nd pick and scoring a big body in FA while stocking the DL. If no big man here, we gotts go best available between SG/PG and if it’s a PG, not a tweener. I’m not the type for speculating on if and whens regarding guys like CP3, so I’m not just looking for a warm body. If we go SG and grab a guy like Klay Thompson, whom I like, but just wouldn’t want him if he were my only pick. If it were between he and Brooks it would be Brooks because he offers a more all-around game. I won’t lie, my favorite player after all the reviewing and watching any available workouts is Kawhi Leonard (out of our range) and Charles Jenkins. If Alec Burks somehow falls this far you have to grab even if his 3pt shot is lacking. This is too high for a Jenkins or Jackson in my opinion, unless it’s all we have. Otherwise I drop back pull one of those 2, reach for Selby (Yes Selby’s amazing but still a reach, because there really isn’t anything other to go on than promise – I wouldn’t blink if we got him or Jimmer, and they just might surprise, but not my 1st choice). Now, Donatas definately does look more solid as compared to previous toothpick shots but I’d still take Vucevic, wheather people feel he’s a slug or not. His footwork looked solid in workouts to me, but if I think for a minute his work ethic is lacking (that’s the part most of us can’t see), then, yeah, fuck ‘em. I really wish I could see some of Tyler’s workouts. Man’s a mystery to me right now.Which makes him either a sleeper or a World Wide Bust. Gary is a guy who can be had, Benson as well by buying into the 2nd round, but if the Knicks do go that route and know it’s set in place, I’m grabbing a G for damn sure for my 1st pick. Then it make sit really hard to pass up a guard like Selby with his explosiveness. But can he REALLY be a PG? Right now I say no til he actually shows he can distribute the ball. Anyone looking for an explosive 6th man ala Jason Terry? Selby just might be your guy.

by screamedia on Jun 14, 2011 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree, so idk what your post was referring to

I don’t want to waste a good pick on a tweener that would back up our 2 best players and wouldn’t see the court much. We’d be much better off getting a PG/SG/C.

by hvino on Jun 13, 2011 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

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