Sorry for the Sarcasm
I know that I have gotten progressively more sarcastic as time goes by and I would like to apologize. However I feel the need to explain myself.
I like most of you guys, some of you are funny others are extremely insightful and most of you are very passionate about the Knicks and your opinions. But frankly for quite sometime now most of you guys have been driving me crazy.
Look I get that there are some things that an old salt like me has to accept around here. The incessant super star nut hugging like a pack of boy crazed teenage girls, turns my stomach but I realize that most of you guys have come of age in an era where stars are promoted and elevated above their teams so, I blame that on David Stern not you. Also the grass is greener attitude that most of you have also comes with the territory. Sonny Weems is not a significant upgrade over Bill Walker he is just a different guy who plays for a different team. Probably the thing that makes me see red around here the most is the rampant ageism that takes place around this site. Every time one of you talks about a player 'being on the wrong side of 30," I want to smack the shit out of somebody. Who gives a damn about the guys age, can he still play and help this team win games or not! Ray Allen will be 36 in July and he just got through turning a 22 year old Landry Fields into his personal bitch in the playoffs. Simply because a player is younger does not necessarily mean that a player is better.
Sometimes I think you guys say things without thinking about them. The Knicks barring some unforeseen tragedy will be a playoff team next year and probably for the preceding 4-5 years to come. One would think that knowing this you guys would want the Knicks to go out and get some guys who have playoff experience. Instead I keep hearing about guys from losing teams who are young and look good on Youtube. We need guys who have experience in big games and have proven not to fall to pieces. Now they don't have to be 35 they can be 25 but they need that experience. Look at what happened in the playoffs, Jared Jeffries, Anthony Carter and Roger Mason Jr. outplayed their younger teammates in the playoffs. At the very least you can say these guys were not scared of the moment. That is because all of those guys have been part of several playoff teams and at least have an understanding of what the playoffs were about. Now Roger Mason Jr. sucks but he knows what winning playoff basketball looks like and feels like, even if he does not have the skill to make it happen on the court. We need players with Mason Jr.'s knowledge base but who have a higher level of on the court talent. Nick Young may have more talent that ol' Roger but Young has not played a minute in a big game since high school. We don't need to throw millions of dollars at that guy only to find out he can't handle it in the playoffs.
The ridiculous comparisons of draft prospects to all stars and hall of famers kills me as well. Realize people that whomever we draft is probably going to have major holes in his game, and will need time to learn and develop before they can consistently contribute. Yet how many times was Faried compared to Dennis Rodman? That is Bullshit, Faried is not on Rodman's level as a player. Rodman was an incredibly skilled and intelligent basketball player. Anyone who ever saw the young Rodman knock down 15 footers, grab a rebound in a crowd, start the break, and then make pin point passes on the dead run to teammates cutting to the basket would know how stupid it sounds to compare him to Faried. Rodman came into the league a shut down defender, a guy who could lock down Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Dominique Wilkins, and Clyde Drexler in the 4th quarter, then go out and do the same to Hakeem and David Robinson. Faried played his whole college career in a 2-3 zone so it remains to be seen whether he can guard a position at all let alone the elite scorers in the league from point guards to centers like Rodman. All that type of stuff pisses me off because if we end up taking him, you guys are going to expect him to play right away and log 30 minutes a night, yet if he struggles in practice and training camp and starts the year on the bench, you guys will be blasting D'Antoni talking shit about dog houses and such, why because what coach in their right mind would refuse to play a young Dennis Rodman? Let Faried get drafted, work on his game, earn a spot in the rotation and then prove his worth, like the real Dennis Rodman had to do.
Lastly the crazy Chauncy Billups trades leave me scratching my head. First of all our evaluation of Billups is steeped in ignorance. Imagine if the Jets traded Mark Sanchez and got back Drew Brees with 3 weeks left to go in the season (that is the equivalent of time Billups had here), how well would Brees do running an offense he did not know with recievers he had not worked with? Billups came in here with 28 games left and did not know the offense and had to learn it on the fly. Now I am willing to bet that if you give Brees an off-season with the playbook and a training camp to work with his recievers, that the Jets offense would be cooking with gas. Billups like Brees is a master at running an offense. But first he has to know it. Billups admitted that by season's end he only knew about 20% of D'Antoni's offense and the rest of the time he was improvising. Before we start trading him for the likes of Ramon Sessions and Johnny Flynn, maybe we ought to see what he does once he knows the offense. Seriously any trade involving Billups that isn't bringing back Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Rajon Rondo, or even Russell Westbrook is suicide. If the new team President does something like that and does not get back one of the guys I mentioned or at least Steve Nash, then clearly his agenda is to undermine D'Antoni and by exentsion the Knicks and should be fired.
So I will try to be less sarcastic but I hope you guys see why.
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Now was this sarcasm?
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.
Vince Lombardi
Just kidding
I don’t really agree with the fact that bringing in players with playoff experience should be the main criteria when signing FA’s. Good points in the rest of the article though.
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.
Vince Lombardi
regarding the wrong side of 30
It’s pretty well established that most players decline after 30. If a guy is already starting to decline, and isn’t starting from superstar level like Ray Allen, that’s a bad sign.
Decline is relative mindfeck it should be a case by case basis
typically players whose games rely on explosiveness and athleticism to to decline, some players can still be productive even after they reach 35. While I am not saying the Knicks should sign a bunch of guys with AARP cards perse I am saying that simplay because a guy is 32 does not mean he is washed up and couldn’t help this team. Also how long does the average player even stay with the same team? I heard it is something like 2.5 years. A 32 year old player who may have 3-4 productive years left may be as good an investment as a 25 year old player in that case, since in 3 years neither player is likely to be with the team.
by Robert Curre on Jun 15, 2011 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I know, that's what I'm saying
Each person will decline at a different rate, and some declining players may still be better than their younger counterparts. Just like there’s no guarantee that young players improve, you have to consider work ethic and skill set.
excellent point
Also how long does the average player even stay with the same team? I heard it is something like 2.5 years. A 32 year old player who may have 3-4 productive years left may be as good an investment as a 25 year old player in that case, since in 3 years neither player is likely to be with the team.
After 30? More like after 34 or 35.
I think the whole over-30 thing comes from video games in franchise mode. I remember I’ve done that a couple times, and HELL NO I don’t want someone over 26 even. But this isn’t a video game, this is the NBA, where it matters that someone has been tested in the playoffs.
As for Billups, I don’t want him around. He never even tried to run D’Antoni’s offense, and as a PG that’s pretty damning. I think he’s valuable as an expiring contract.
by superturboultra on Jun 16, 2011 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I think you will change your opinion about Billups after the 1st month of this next season
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Jun 16, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I certainly hope so! Maybe with that last year being guaranteed, he won’t be trying to take over the team or be such a chucker.
Let’s go Billups!
by superturboultra on Jun 16, 2011 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
It's not that they become shit after 30
But they usually start to decline. And if a guy is 31 or so and wants a 4 year deal, by the end of the deal, he most likely won’t be worth the money. Even if Chauncey is better than he was last year, I don’t think he’d be worth his contract.
Robert you salty old bastard!
I love it. This is the kind of post that we should pay extra attention to.
I’m right with you on comparisons and impatience and such. I really am. And great point especially about how our old vets played during our short playoff run. That is exactly true.
I’m hoping to God we hold onto Chauncey Billups now that we have him too. He is one of those guys who knows whats up in the playoffs. Even if his skill level is slowly decreasing, his knowledge isn’t.
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Jun 15, 2011 4:37 PM EDT reply actions
Oh, and Billups isn't very good anymore
He’s about average overall, maybe a bit better than Sessions. Considering the salary, Billups isn’t much of an asset to the team, and the Knicks were morons if they actually preferred Billups to Felton.
In all honesty
Do you seriously consider Chauncey Billups to be marginally better than Sessions?
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.
Vince Lombardi
at this point in their careers, yes
Why wouldn’t you? He was a major reason the Cavs beat the Knicks all those times.
So basically
You’re judging Sessions on 3-4 good games he had against a terrible Knicks defense, and I’m guessing you’re judging Chauncey by his time here in New York. You know, the time period where he was often injured, only knew about 20% of the offense and had basically no chemistry with the team. Really?
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.
Vince Lombardi
No
Sessions had a whole good season. And Chauncey hasn’t been the best PG in Denver for 2 years. Even Detroit knew he wasn’t worth the money. Unfortunately, they spent the money on guys who deserved it even less.
in limited minutes...
the kid would be a great fit. pass first, defensive minded, penetrator, facilitator… yeah, with a average jump shot, but we’ve got those.
by bucketsncents on Jun 17, 2011 6:51 AM EDT up reply actions
You could also say the Knicks have enough guys who can shoot threes and not enough who can pass or DWRSD
I don't know if we have anyone that makes me confident when they shoot the 3.
Shawne fell off huge. TD was makin it at a league-leading clip, but I still don’t have confidence when he lets it go. Who else?
Oh yeah I forgot my man Billy Walker. Okay so there’s one.
Landry shot better than average
Carmelo shot well on the Knicks
TD and Billups both shot well
Bill Walker
Rautins if he turns out to not be worthless
Maybe Amar’e can make it a real part of his game if the match up calls for it
I don’t have any confidence in Shawne Williams
Melo was lights out, yeah
TD and Shawne are both reliable and I think they’ve proven as much.
Walker is streaky, and Billups shot terribly so I don’t know what you’re talking about there
Billups shot well for the season and his career
I’m hoping he was bad for the Knicks due to injuries and lack of continuity
I think Bill Walker isn’t too streaky. He has shot well everywhere except when Doc Rivers didn’t even know he existed.
Shawne started hot but was streaky. It seemed he had streaks where he’d make 70% for a month, the make nothing for two weeks.
We've done this already
Everyone but TD was either streaky or inefficient.
Melo did not have enough data.
Shawne, Bully, Fields were streaky.
Burps was inefficient.
TD is my keeper, until I change my mind somewhere today and decide that I’d gladly trade him away for a chance to draft a guy who can’t make a 4 foot chippy.
by superturboultra on Jun 17, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
You have to account for the fact that Shawne just wore down
He played more minutes for us last year than he has played anywhere in his career. If he is on the team next year and playing the same minutes, he will probably handle it better because he will be prepared for it physically and mentally. Remember the guy came in last year just hoping to land a spot on a NBA team. He ended up playing 20-25 minutes a night.
by Robert Curre on Jun 17, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I've got nothin but love for Shawne.
I just don’t feel confident when he shoots the three from the 3/4s, straight away, or basically any angle except a straight up corner shot. This isn’t really me knocking him, since everyone has their spots they like. Gallo loved the FT line-extended. Just sayin when people say we have enough reliable 3-shooters or our offense isn’t something we need to worry about, I think we don’t and we should.
I don’t think he was tired, I think the shooting he was doing early on just wasn’t sustainable.
by superturboultra on Jun 17, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
plus, he's like 25?
tired shouldn’t be an excuse. kid had his hotspot, and the rest of the spots were lukewarm. wouldn’t put him in the category as “pure shooter”.
by bucketsncents on Jun 17, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Sessions is one of the worst defenders in the entire league
Believe me, I know. You could figure this out after watching him play 5 games of matador defense and blowing switches.
Sessions jumpshot is below average shooter
and does not have a great assist to turnover ratio. There is a reason for most of this guy’s career he’s been a back up.
by Robert Curre on Jun 20, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Stop On PG's
Just wait until 2012 Free Agency.
Let’s get a backup PF/C or hope that K.Thompson falls to us at 17 for this year.
what about OJ mayo?
im pretty sure he is priority 1
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
Desean Jackson IS a punk
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Jun 20, 2011 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions
the question is only whether to trade amare or carmelo to get him
I say both
Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate
WOW!!
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Jun 21, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
so was George Karl a moron
for making Felton play the role of Toney Douglas on the Nuggs?
by total hermination on Jun 16, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
No
Because otherwise Felton wouldn’t be able to play enough, and the Nuggets were missing their usual SG for much of the time. The Nuggets really shouldn’t have Lawson and Felton on the team.
I can't put my finger on it
But I loved readin this post. Well done about the grass is greener stuff, the comparisons and the veterans vs. the young guys
The whole time, I kind of imagined the grandpa from Everybody Loves Raymond writing this
by WSD on Jun 15, 2011 5:05 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
You know what irritates me? Trade proposals that make not a lick of sense for the other team. Chauncey Billups and Bill Walker for Chris Paul and the Hornets 2013 first rounder! Get it done, Donnie!
I’ll admit to getting a bit worked up about the draft. I love the draft. I love the speculation and the crapshoot of it. And I love seeing who pans out and who drops out of the league. And I love to try to predict what will happen, and I do get over-hopeful. So maybe I piss some people off.
But you know what else pisses me off? Referring to someone as “A poor man’s …”. I hate that phrase. I don’t want a poor man’s anybody, but in any case, why is the good player a rich man’s guy and the player who sucks but is slightly reminiscent of the good player goes to the poor man? Injustice, I tell’s ya. Rich people buy dumb, bejewled, over-expensive facsimiles of actual real things. My 1994 corolla is a motor vehicle that moves me along any road in town. The rich guy gets the same thing and spends 10 times as much, but it’s probably not built as well. So maybe Al Harrington is a rich man’s LeBron James.
Dunno.
But I will say this – the overall level of intelligence here at P&T is way higher than anywhere else I’ve seen Knick fans posting.
You know what irritates me? Trade proposals that make not a lick of sense for the other team. Chauncey Billups and Bill Walker for Chris Paul and the Hornets 2013 first rounder! Get it done, Donnie!
As long as the proposee (?) explains why the trade makes sense and is willing to defend the argument, it’s cool with me. (saying this as a proposee of Paul trades myself ofc.)
It can be more complicated than “does it look fair on paper?”
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
Trade proposals that make no sense, you say?
obviously, i'm going to respectfully look at this from a different perspective...
that being that all points of view belong here, at least as i see things. it’s a blog about the knicks… not a think tank devoted to curing incurable diseases.
which in my book means…
the outrageous non-sensical trades which have no way of happening, but meet the trade machine standards are welcome… if only to give opportunities for P & T’ers to yell at each other. whatever, they’re fun.
which in my book means…
discussions regarding the pros and cons of bringing in veterans with experience versus young cats still with upside belong in these P $ T’ parts… if only to create a forum where the righteously entrenched might possibly grow to consider alternative perspectives. it’s all good, we all know a team with a balance of seasoned and green are the healthiest over the long haul.
which in my book means…
fanposts devoted solely to ones own egotistical need to expound upon what posters and toasters should and should not post about are absolutely necessary… if only to get the posters of these fanposts some well deserved kudos for their literary skills. let it flow my man, you can write, and you deserve to have dudes read it and judge it.
so bottom line… let it flow mr. currence… and welcome everyone elses flow as well… even the sonny weems lovers, the nick young lovers, the absurd trade lovers, the marbury lovers, the lebron haters, the depth preferers (i know, not a word), the superstar groupies, the clever insulters, the morality police, the snarky sarcastics and the young and the old.
it’s why we come here.
which in my book means…
which in my book means…
fanposts devoted solely to ones own egotistical need to expound upon what posters and toasters should and should not post about are absolutely necessary…
…as is criticism of said posts. ahem… ;)
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
seriously dude...
read the rest and highlight it in your response. it’s absolutely egotistical, as are many of mine, as are many of yours… stop cherry picking and isolating the sound bites that serve your argument. i give currence well deserved kudos… he can write and his thoughts, as much as anybody’s, belong.
by bucketsncents on Jun 15, 2011 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions
It applies to everyone
I fully agree that diverse opinions are welcome, but posters who are allergic to constructive criticism are harmful.
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
by The Rooster on Jun 15, 2011 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions
applies to everything*
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
by The Rooster on Jun 15, 2011 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions
can we not start this again?
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Jun 16, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
isnt that what the rest of the internet is for? i come here for reasonable thinking
the outrageous non-sensical trades which have no way of happening, but meet the trade machine standards are welcome… if only to give opportunities for P & T’ers to yell at each other. whatever, they’re fun.
one mans reason...
is another mans… trade of shawne, bully, TD, rautins, turiaf and future considerations for… dwight howard.
i come here for some reason, some entertainment, sports related ego boosting, some shit talking, some information and apparently, some humility.
by bucketsncents on Jun 17, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
not saying you... not saying me...
but do you read all the posts?… reckon it’s just part of the sports culture.
by bucketsncents on Jun 17, 2011 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions

I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
by gbaked on Jun 15, 2011 7:18 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs

I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
just playin
rec’d… you speak the truth.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Damn straight.
I’m guilty of this too, but we need to keep a rational head more often when we talk about possible transactions or Dantoni’s latest failings or why what __________ just posted here at P&T is SO wrong.
I mean at least make sure the money works out if you absolutely have to post stuff like “Walker+Mason Jr for Wilson!!”
Dude, don't apologize
You’ve followed the game closely for a long enough time that you’ve earned a few indignant lash-outs on some noobs. If someone wants to trade Toney Douglas for the #2 pick in the draft, you certainly have my support if you want to snark him into submission. That shit is funny! And that idea is retarded! If I said something that stupid, I’d hope people would let me know so I don’t go around sounding so goddamned stupid!.
But seriously… the comments section on a blog with an informed readership is a survival-of-the-fittest type of thing. Sometimes its just innocuous bro-talk, but more often than not, people offer up their opinions. If people agree with what you say, then you get your props. If they don’t, you’re lucky if you can get away with just being mildly belittled. It may ruffle some feathers, but you can’t just put on the kid gloves every time someone suggests signing Earl Barron to a 5-year deal. You gotta have a little fun with it.
And if you’re just a total dick about it? Everyone’ll let you know about that one too. It’s like, uh, meritocratic, or something… kinda.
Anyways, I always appreciate the POV of someone who not only knows Knick-ball, but just the league in general. The NBA is unique in that there is a sizable group of fans who know every player in the league (sometimes even for the last 10,20,30 years), and I think that those people reveal themselves pretty quickly in a forum such as this one. And IMO, a perspective like that is always welcomed, especially to help balance out so many of the knee-jerk attitudes you find in sports commentary. (excluding this blog, of course. i come for the jokes, I stay for the level-headed and pleasant attitudes toward Knickdom)
Soo..yea! Embrace your biting wit Currence! It would be a crime to self-censor.
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jun 16, 2011 3:15 AM EDT reply actions
Dziedzic Here
Lord Currence we love you and your true feelings towards the Knicks.
Take a deep breath and hope that Mr. Dolan hires me to run the show towards success.
Its my opinion only, I would rather start C.Billups at the two this yera and not the point.
If Jerome Jordan pans out we will have for this year the 2,3,4 and 5 spots settled.
Next year we can get that PG to run the show.
Lets just hope J.Jordan pans out for the the big picture.
Can you imagine if the Knicks move up in the draft and grab E.Kanter or A.Burks?
What assets would you use
to get a top 5 pick and sign Kanter? Let’s be realistic here.
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.
Vince Lombardi
Unless the Timberwolves or the Cavs or the Jazz are super-high on Landry Fields
We have very little chance of moving up.
I don't know about super-high on Fields
They’d just have to be super-high to give us a top 5 pick for fields. Bring in the weed!
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.
Vince Lombardi
I'm taking Dz at his word.
this WOULD be a highly successful draft if we move up and draft Enes Kanter. I’ll agree to that, lol.
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Jun 16, 2011 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
what if we don't have to move up for Alec Burks?
or what if we move up for the better of the 2 top Euro Centers, Jonas Valaciunas?
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Jun 16, 2011 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd be happy to take Alec Burks!
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Jun 16, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd prefer Kyrie Irving
Does anyone think the Cavs are interested in Bill Walker to trade up? He’s a proven player, and this way we’d have the #17 as well!
by superturboultra on Jun 16, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd make that trade! Playoff tested veteran!
Wait, we are getting Kyrie Irving, right?
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Jun 16, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
the recipe for the cocktail of drugs that create this world should be in the Smithsonian.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Jun 16, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If Dolan hired you to run the show towards success
I would personally carry Isiah Thomas from Miami to NYC.
by total hermination on Jun 16, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha!
I wouldn’t carry him, but I would strap him to a roof rack. I mean, carrying takes a lot of energy!
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Jun 16, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm a huge Grizzlies fan
Love that guy they have coming off the bench.
by superturboultra on Jun 17, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
A trade bringing back Russell Westbrook would be suicide not only for the Knicks, but for me
Russell Westbrook is in an elite category of player that I truly, genuinely, despise. His play in the playoffs this season drove me insane. Unless he was told “You will be benched if you take more than 10 shots while shooting below 50%”, I’m not sure I would be able to remain a Knicks fan if he somehow became a Knick.
he was a brick chucking, me first fiend in the playoffs
but, while to each his own…I dunno about that. Of course if he’s on the Knicks he’d be given carte blanche to shoot whatever and whenever he wants, which would be like a ticking time bomb with Mr. Fake Ass Derrick Rose.
He was Walsh and Pringles’ boy from that draft class tho. Much more so than Steph Curry, so I’m pretty sure they think he’d fit in great here, sort of like a billionaire’s Goran Dragic.
I dunno how he’d fit in with Mare and Melo, but of course he wouldn’t be an equal with them as far a the totem pole, so that shit he pulled in the playoffs wouldn’t really fly
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
"that shit he pulled"
was a result of Durant having the strength of a feather and being manhandled by Marion and Kidd off the ball
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
that's adorable and all
but it was still the shit he pulled. Durant’s problems didn’t stop James Harden from creating for others and actually making a difference in the game
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Harden commanded less attention, often played against reserves, Westbrook did a lot at times as well.......
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
this is not true
as Harden played as much as Westbrook. Westbrook did really everything on his own and chucked and bricked his way out of playing time.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Jun 16, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Kinda glad to read this
Because I can’t really stand Russel Westbrook. I think he puts up kind of hollow stats, and while his athleticism is other-worldly, and he’s still growing and adapting his game, he just infuriates me. Makes awful decisions all around, and when he does do something right it feels it makes no impact on the game
by WSD on Jun 16, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Did you know he's also a Westboro member?
ESPN told me so?
seriously, chill out. the media smear job on Westbrook was despicable. he’s still better than Derrick Rose.
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
he’s still better than Derrick Rose
aaaahahahahaa!!
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
great
like everyone else who refutes that claim, you can’t provide a reason why it’s false.
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
where to start?
how about how Rose’s shots go in the basket? The Bulls are a better team despite having less talent and a coach who’s less concerned with offence then Brooks?
Stop trying to sound contrary just to be that way. Its really annoying. Westbrook is very good but there’s no media conspiracy to make Rose sound better then Westbrook. He IS better then Westbrook.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Their shooting numbers were almost identical this season
sorry, try again
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
almost
but favored Rose, as do their talents. So now go away.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Still nothing
Westbrook is miles better defensively and as a rebounder. Shit, at least I’m trying here.
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
you're trying hard at failing, and succeeding
Rose is miles better offensively and right on par defensively. Rebounding he doesn’t have to do as much considering he’s got better rebounders on the team.
Again, there’s no conspiracy theory to say Rose is the better player. Its true and anyone saying otherwise is just trying to be contrarian like anyone saying Lebron isn’t the best player in basketball.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Rose is miles better offensively and right on par defensively.
what??? even the most diehard Bulls fan wouldn’t say this. you have no argument, I’m done here
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
Good
then I won’t have to bother with tired, contrarian attention grabbing arguments.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
I agree with Rorsch here
The media does have a boner for Rose, but the criticism of Westbrook was deserved. He’s got one of the best – top 3, at least – scorers on his side, yet he put up awful shooting numbers, waaaay more shots than necessary, and didn’t have good assist numbers considering.
Defensively, I’d call it a draw. Westbrook is probably better one-on-one, and he might be more athletic, but Rose’s team was best in the league. That defense starts up top where he plays.
Their shooting numbers are similar, but shouldn’t be because as noted earlier by Rorschach, Westbrook is the number 2 option on the Thunder, surrounded by one of the best offensive players in the league, on a team that focuses more on that end than the Bulls. D-Rose HAS to chuck and dominate the ball on offense otherwise, nothing happens.
Also, Rose’s team, led by Rose himself, did go further than the Thunder
Regarding defense
I have no doubt that the Bulls would be better defensively (and overall) if you replaced Rose with Westbrook. The Thunder didn’t have solid post defense beyond Ibaka until they traded for Perkins, and even then Perk didn’t really fit in. The Bulls have to compensate for Rose far more than the Thunder do for Westbrook, which is important.
Offensively, I’m not sure how much the “second option” thing invalidates Westbrook’s offense. Overall, the Thunder offense relied entirely on Durant/Westbrook, while Rose had Boozer, Deng, and Noah to rely on. Westbrook still faced a lot of double teams, basically.
Also, Rose’s team, led by Rose himself, did go further than the Thunder
They both got to the conference finals and lost in five games – the Thunder losing to the better team, of course.
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
I was done, but I had to point out that I lol'd at this
while Rose had Boozer, Deng, and Noah to rely on. Westbrook
like Ibaka, Harden, Durant are not a better trio to rely on then Boozer Deng and Noah.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
brooks sux as coach and russ needs to learn to playmake. hard to do that shit in laissez fairre offense.
russ would be most def welcomed on knicks, lets be serious.
The Thunder turned it around under him
His only problems are that Kendrick Perkins is way overrated, Durant is weak, and Westbrook is a streaky shooter. Imagine if they’d completed the trade a few years ago for Tyson Chandler. They’d have won at least one championship.
Yeah but he is young and something tells me that working with D'Antoni would help him.
For crying out loud Westbrook is 22 years old. He should be a Know the prospect right now, not leading a team in the Western conference finals. I am willing to bet he will develop a happy medium between when to shoot and when to pass. The guy has a ton of talent, he just needs time and coaching to harness it.
by Robert Curre on Jun 17, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
He's also probably unavailable
I think Durant’s problems were based on his go-to move being a bald attempt to get a foul call, which just didn’t happen come playoff time, combined with better defensive strategies. If I had to keep one or the other, I’d consider moving Durant before Westbrook, but what do I know?
by superturboultra on Jun 17, 2011 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
They'd be crazy to trade either player
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
Who gives a damn about the guys age, can he still play and help this team win games or not!
its not about now, its about the next 4-5 years. so yea, a player can play now. but what about next year or the year after?
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
Desean Jackson IS a punk
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Jun 16, 2011 7:51 PM EDT reply actions
I feel you except there is one problem, you don't sign free agents for what they might do 4 years
from now, you sign them for what they can do in year one. Draft picks are for your 4-5 year plan. You can draft Keith Benson for example with the idea that in 4-5 years he will have filled out enough to be a center who can score 15 points a game and grab 10 rebounds. However if you are signing a free agent center this season say Dalembert you are probably hoping you can get 12 and 10 from him right now. I know that is what a coach would be thinking, because if you give D’Antoni a roster full of players who may pan out in 4-5 years, he will be talking about what a great team the Knicks have why sitting in the TNT studio next to Charles Barkley.
Also provided you don’t sign a 33 year old guy to a 5 year deal, in two years when maybe it is time to move on, you will have the cap sace to sign another guy.
Lastly like I said to mindfeck it is a player by player thing. Steve Nash is still going strong at 37, how old was he when they signed him in PHX (30-31) So 7 years later he is still going strong, there are some guys who were 25 when PHX signed Nash who are out of the league now. So like I said you don’t take a guy just because he is young or because he is old, but you factor in things about the player to make a determination, but to say automatically that because player X is 30 he can’t play anymore or you don’t want him on the team is foolish. There are some guys who are 27 right now who probably would be a bad risk in 2 years
by Robert Curre on Jun 17, 2011 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
from now, you sign them for what they can do in year one
depends on who is available.
if an older but better talented PG is available with a young PG who is good, but not as good as the vet.
you take the younger guy, because he can play well and will only get better.
rather than the older gguy who will retire soon
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
Desean Jackson IS a punk
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Jun 17, 2011 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
You make an assumption that young players get better and that is simply not true
in most cases. I know we would like to think that young players get better but frankly most do not. So If I am trying to win a championship now and the 30 year old point guard is a better player than the 25 year old point guard, I take the 30 year old, why because he is the better player. Now when the 30 year old retires as you say and the 25 year old is the now 29 year old beast you project him to be then I will either have the cap space to sign him or put together assets to trade for him. In my book you never pass on the better player now because you think the other guy will be better in the future. Remember basketball is not baseball where you sign a guy and pretty much he is threre for 7 years. In basketball guys who get signed this year may be on knew teams by 2013. There fore it does not make much sense to sign upside free agents when they may be traded 2 years later.
by Robert Currence on Jun 18, 2011 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions
disagree
You make an assumption that young players get better and that is simply not true
i dont understand. so you’re saying that kevin love hasnt gotten better than he was a few years ago? how bout gallo? or the gasol bros? i know felton has gotten better than he was.
you have to take the risk and evaluate who you think is getting better and will stay the same.
you have to consider the future, not just now. sure, the guy may not be here in a fe wyears after a trade, but then omeone replaces him and you get help with what you get from the trade.
i dont understand the argument that they may be traded. it a weak argument. and they may get hurt, or may just leave basketball and go to europe. who knows. that shouldnt affect how you choose to sign right now. you gotta go with the guy wo has the better upside for the next 3-5 years. not the guy who may retire in 2
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
Desean Jackson IS a punk
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Jun 18, 2011 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I think what Robert’s trying to say is that for every Kevin Love in the league, there’s two Mardy Collinses.
by superturboultra on Jun 18, 2011 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
and yea, i agree with that.
but you dont sign those guys.
signing FA’s is situational. not the same for every one.
you dont sign a younger guy over a better vet if you dont think the younger guy will improve over the years
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
Desean Jackson IS a punk
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Jun 18, 2011 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I am saying that most players do not drastically improve.
And no Kevin Love has not improved, his minutes have gone up thus his stats improved. Secondly when signing free agents, again I am only talking about free agents, you do not commit money for what a guy might be able to do 3-5 years from now, when you are signing a guy whether he is 25 or 35 it is on the strenght of what he has already proven he can do. Thirdly upside is irrelevant when signing free agents. Upside is the new term for potential, and potential means that there are a bunch of things that a guy can’t do right now that some scout believes he will be able to do somewhere down the line. Hubie Brown once said the problem with potential is it is not here yet and by the time it gets here, you have usually been fired.
In short you sign the guy who can help you win right now, sometimes that is the 25 year old guy, some times it is the 35 year old guy. And if it is the 35 year old guy and he retires in 2 years, then you will have the cap room to trade for or sign the upside guy, when hopefully some of that upside has become now side. Look at your example above, alot of Knick fans would love to have Marc Gasol, but not for what he might be able to do 3 years from now, but because of what they have seen him do right now. And Gm’s look at it the same way, because for all we and they know Marc Gasol may have peaked and may not be any better in the future than he is now.
by Robert Curre on Jun 20, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
drastically, no.
but the Vet isnt gonna be THAT much better than the the younger guy or you’d sign the vet.
im not talking about just what he might be able to do in 3-5 years. but what he can do now+pottential for years to come.
You dont sign him if he is soo much worse than the Vet.
lets put it in a way i can explain it easier and i think you may get.
Young player is a 78 rating on 2k11
Vet is an 82.
Young player is 23-26 years old
vet is 30-33 years old
you sign the young player. because he can ball now, plus pottential for the net 3 -5 years
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
Desean Jackson IS a punk
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Jun 20, 2011 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Did you just try to explain something to me using a video game reference
You are not getting it. You sign the best player regardless of age. If the 25 year old guy is better you sign him, if the 35 year old guy is better you sign him. And who is to say that a player 33 will not be effective 3-5 years later. Or that a guy 26 will be effective 3-5 years later, it is a case by case basis. Using your logic you would have passed on a 31 year old Ray Allen in favor of the then 24 year old Gilbert Arenas, because he was younger and had more potential. Well at 36 Ray Allen is still going strong and Arenas is basically washed up at 29! Or you would have passed on a 30 year old Kareem for a 26 year old Bill Walton, but 4 years later who was the better player? Hell 8 years later who was the better player, Kareem won finals MVP at 38 years old! This is my point you cannot have a rule that says you take the younger guy because he will be better longer because that is not always the case, it is player by player.
by Robert Curre on Jun 21, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I was going to make the point that another good reason GM's often go the younger route is to avoid the greater risk of injury with the older player(however real that perception is.
But then you bust out Bill Walton as your “younger player” example. What am I supposed to do with that?
Walton is Younger than Kareem and they were once free Agents in the
same year! So yeah it fits.
by Robert Curre on Jun 21, 2011 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Well I was just sayin. Conventional Wisdom says the younger player will be less of an injury risk and just overall healthier than the old player.
Unless that younger player is Bill Walton and he can’t stay healthy to save his life.
The thing about older players
is that they are going to get a little worse year to year at some point. So if you are trying to grow a perennial contender, there’s a school of thought that says, for example, Felton is going to improve a little over the next 3 years and Billups is going to go the other way.
But there is usually too much value placed on youth. Even in the draft. “He’s super athletic and can’t shoot but he’s only 19!!!!” gets more hype than “He’s 22 and has demonstrated shooting ability”
True JuJuan Johnson is hurt by the fact that his game actually has
some polish to it so therefore he is seen as having limited upside because he actaully developed some skills in college.
by Robert Currence on Jun 21, 2011 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
while i agree with the overall
that age does not guarentee anything…
for the most part, guys on the high side of 33 will decline. You cherry picked two of the best players to ever play.
With that, alot of us want some vets on the team… but the odds of them growing into something more then they are now is slim to none.
You sign a guy like Grant HIll, TPrince, RIP etc this year and there is little to no chance they get better. the best you can hope for is they will stay at the level they are at.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
True but do you really need them to get better or to just better
better than some of the guys we ended the year with in the rotation last year. No offense, but When Carmelo goes to the bench this season, if a Grant Hill or Tayshaun Prince comes off it does that not make us better than if Bill Walker comes off the bench instead? On those nights when landry is not shooting well or is afraid to shoot, wouldn’t it be better for D’Antoni to have the option of going with Rip Hamilton than Roger Mason Jr. These are my points. We have our stars, and we need to put a better supporting cast around them. Now we do not have alot in the way of resources to sign free agents and therefore we need to get guys who can play but are also willing to work cheap. Grant Hill is 37 but he is a better player right now than Bill Walker at 24. And Grant might be willing to work for Vets min, which fits our budget. That is the other part to this argument, even the cheapest of the young guys with upside that you folks want are probably going to want at least 5-6Mil a year and 4-5 year contracts, so even if I thought signing Sonny Weems would be better than Signing Grant Hill, which I don’t, Unless Weems is willing to work for Vets min. which I doubt, we probably can’t afford him. Really I think sometimes we have to grow up around here. You cannot go out and get two superstars pay them 40mil next season, and then expect to have shopping money to sign young up and comers at 5-8 mil a pop and still fill out a roster. When you guys were talking about guys willing to take less, even sign for minimum to play with superstars, I thought that meant you understood that you were talking about the Rip Hamilton’s, Tracy McGrady’s, Vince Carter’s, Grant Hill’s, And Michael Redd’s of the world and not Wilson Chandler, Nick Young or Sonny Weems. If those guys are willing to work for vets min, (which in the case of Young and Chandler are less than their qualifying offers, then Denver, Washington, and Toronto would re-sign those guys in a heartbeat. The Wizards for example do not want to have to pay Nick Young 7 or 8 mil and he may not even win his starting 2 guard spot back from Jordan Crawford. If he is willing to work for Vet’s min Ernie Grunfeld would sign him right now!
by Robert Curre on Jun 22, 2011 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
no. if i were running a team.
and their was a 35 year old all-star.
and a 25 year old 2nd team all-star.
i sign the 25 year old, because he gives me good play for now and the future.
especially when you have a core of guys in their mid-late 20’s. you wanna be good or awhile. not just one season.
their are exceptions to the rule. like say Kareem abdul jabbaar. he is a clear exception. reay allen or 24 year old arenas. i tak earenas. arenas could have been good with the right team, he never went to the right team. if he could fit my teams system well, i take him over allen.
This is my point you cannot have a rule that says you take the younger guy because he will be better longer because that is not always the case, it is player by player
you are not getting what i said tho.
i said that their are exceptions. but if the player you are getting is say in the pretty good level and he is young, like say 25. and the other player, same position is at the really good level, but say 35. you take the 25 year old. because he can ball and he has much more of a carreer ahead of him
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
Desean Jackson IS a punk
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Jun 24, 2011 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I know that you are wrong
Because there is no way the Knicks made the playoffs the preceding 4-5 years after this year, as you said. Just 1.
lol
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
Desean Jackson IS a punk
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Jun 17, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Is there another way to take what he said or what you just said?
If you mean what he said, I thought it was an obvious typo and he meant something more like “proceeding years” as opposed to “preceding years”. I doubt Currence actually thought we’d been in the playoffs for the past 5 years and I’m amazed you actually thought he thought that.
If that’s how you took it.
from one guy on the wrong side of 30 to another
bravo dude.
I read/write here to learn and exchange thoughts on my addiction er, team.
Other blogs are less informed (Faried will solve our problems) more wildly opinionated (247 way to say fire D’Antoni), and too personal (?$&!).
I like this post – what doesn’t kill us you wrote only makes us (all posters) stronger.
damn
just as I was about to put up a “Bismack Biyombo is the next Dikembe Mutombo” post….Currence brings me back to my senses.
Seriously though, I rec’d this days ago….nicely done.
by total hermination on Jun 18, 2011 9:22 PM EDT reply actions
Anybody else suspect that
the title of this post is almost certainly sarcastic?
by Dutchmarau on Jun 22, 2011 2:44 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
lol.now that you mention it
Dear fox.... Fire Aikman
Lebron james is a bitch
The new Prince of NY is here
Desean Jackson IS a punk
27 Going on 28 NYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Lawrence Taylor The Real LT on Jun 24, 2011 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions

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