Biyombo to Workout for us?
by hvino on Jun 15, 2011 9:33 PM EDT
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Chad Ford just tweeted:
chadfordinsider Chad Ford Bismack Backlash: In wake of shaky Euro workout, Biyombo now offering to work out for few teams in the US - Pistons & Knicks both got calls
This is the first we've heard of us being interested in Biyombo, so for me this is huge news!!!
This guy is without a doubt the best player we could possibly get for our team in this draft. He brings what we need: defense (shot-blocking specifically) and rebounding.
Get it done Donnie (won't be saying that any more after the draft... depressing)!!!!!
UPDATE (6/17/11):
Knicks fans watch closely the Biyombo workout. Would be a great fit & very intriguing pick for NY. Becoming more likely he is there at 17.
Here’s the twitter page if anybody is interested.
http://twitter.com/#!/Probballdraft
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He is a an athletic freak
Respect thy brother and thy noodly appendage.
"The man who does not comply with the Pastfarian belief is a man not worthy of the afterlife"
Mozzarella 17:3
WE HAVE TO WORK HIM OUT.
His stock is falling, but the fact remains that he’s big, strong, athletic, has a monstrous wingspan, and great shot blocking and rebounding skills. Work him out and keep the results under lock and key so nobody knows if he looks amazing.
I see him realistically being a more athletic Ronny Turiaf, and having Ronny and Bismack as our center duo would be both awesome and effective.
If his stock is falling, then good
We will take him. He’d fit well here, and wouldn’t even need to score. Billups needs to work on his passing off the dribble, Biyombo would need to work on his hands – they should work out together all summer long.
by superturboultra on Jun 16, 2011 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I see his ceiling as a better rebounding Turiaf
But Turiaf’s strength is that he’s a smart basketball player. I know Biyombo comes accross as intelligent and well spoken but does he have the basketball intelligence? That’s the big question. I doubt he’ll ever have offense but if he had some jeffries type of basketball smarts he can be very good. So tough to judge that, though.
A better rebounding Turiaf
Pretty much makes him a careeer backup center. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, and we of all teams should not be picky, but the more I hear about this guy, the more questionable I think he is. His stock is falling pretty dramatically, all in the course of about a week, and it sounds like his weaknesses are glaring.
As a rookie, can his rebounding and shot-blocking and length make that great of an impact for us? Better than a center we could sign for less money? We have one big man we’re trying to develop into a real player in Jordan. With only one definite pick so far, we need a guy who can make a real impact, not necessarily a huge one, but a reliable one, and to me, Biyombo is a question mark in that area
If Turiaf had better conditioning and didn't get hurt every other day
He’d be one of the better NBA starting centers. He’s got a good motor and he makes good decisions, he’s got a few things that he’s very good at (pick and roll, backdoor moves), and he knows how to play defense.
Personally I see Biyombo as better than him eventually, but even the better rebounding Turiaf sounds like exactly what the Knicks need.
by superturboultra on Jun 16, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know if it's conditioning
Or just nagging injuries… but if Turiaf could play without getting injured regularly and rebound a little better, we’d be a much better team.
If Biyombo magically falls to us,
Ima be worried as hell. The only ways the Knicks can possibly pick this kid up is:
1. They trade up 7+ spots to get him, or
2. Something seriously spooks enough teams and they pass on him repeatedly. If that’s the case, I dunno how confident I can be in that pick.
"It was one of those good, deep sleeps; you know, the ones where you wake up and a stream of drool is steadily racing down your shirt? Yes, that kind of sleep." -Landry Fields
by Thelonious Dunk on Jun 16, 2011 12:53 AM EDT reply actions
The flipside is being really really jealous of whoever grabs him.
"It was one of those good, deep sleeps; you know, the ones where you wake up and a stream of drool is steadily racing down your shirt? Yes, that kind of sleep." -Landry Fields
by Thelonious Dunk on Jun 16, 2011 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
This makes me thrilled that he’s working out for us. Teams ahead of us that don’t get that chance might be scared of something that we’ve checked out and determined isn’t an issue.
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
A lot of teams are worried that he's anywhere from 4-8 years older than he claims to be
I don’t know that the Knicks front office would really care if he’s 18 or 22. Being older would mean he has limited upside (i.e. will probably never become an offensive powerhouse) but we’re in win-now mode and we need an interior defensive presence, so who cares.
It came out that an x-ray some team did of his hand showed that the bones were not set yet, meaning he’s still growing. This is also terrifying, the man’s arms are getting LONGERRRR
by superturboultra on Jun 16, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I read about that
But the growth plate test was commissioned by his own agent, so… I’m not saying it’s fake or whatever, but when millions of dollars depend on someone appearing to be a certain age there are strong incentives to cheat, so I’d take that with a little grain of salt. Biyombo wouldn’t be the first athlete to go to great lengths to fake his/her age…
yeah, but
that was done 2 years ago and they said he was “16 or 17” then.
"Rooting for the Yankees is like rooting for Steve Jobs to win the lotto." - Chris Rock
I think
he’s that one guy who ends up dropping during draft day. Whether we take him is a diff story. I’d like him here because at the very least, he could give us 10-15 min of ridiculous high-energy-high hustle plays.
ill pass. better to draft backourt player with 17 and trade for abother latte first round and get Tyler.
Jeremy Tyler looks like d jordan all over again. people wanna sign jordan for big money, but we can draft player very simillar to him. teams are really sleepin on tyler, he is gonna be real steal.
not opposed to this scenario...
in fact, i dig it. tyler intrigues. but even if we do trade up to get biyombo, we still might be able to buy a lower pick for one of the smalls (jenkins, morris, selby, goudelick, jackson, shumpert etc. )
by bucketsncents on Jun 16, 2011 6:53 AM EDT up reply actions
bismarck is probably worse on offense tha jj. it would take at least two years to develop any kind of offensive game, we would be playin 4 on 5, cause noone will guard bismarck.
Ben wallace struggled mightly his first couple of years, cause he was such aliability on offensive end. Tyler is much better on offense and also very athletic and could be really good on d.
I agree
That’s the thing about Biyombo – he most likely isn’t going to be able to shoot at all. So in order to stay on the floor, he’ll have to be able to pass or at the very least be a smart defender (and a defensive leader) like Jeffries or Turiaf. And that takes experience which he doesn’t have.
I don't know man..
how much experience does it take to catch a ball wide open and dunk it? Because that’s all we would need from him on offense.
Oh catching the ball?
That’s one of his weaknesses, according to the video. And he was more or less standing still.
by superturboultra on Jun 16, 2011 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve mentioned this elsewhere, but Billups needs to work on his passing off the dribble. They should be summer buddies.
by superturboultra on Jun 16, 2011 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Good point bubba
That’s not a bad scenario. Tyler’s a high risk but potentially higher reward than Biyombo. And it leaves your 17th pick for someone like Darius Morris.
being that there seem to be more potentially capable smalls...
wouldn’t it make more sense to grab tyler at 17 (even if it’s a little higher than is warranted) so we don’t miss out on one of the only true 5’s in the draft? and if we do get a later pick, we’ll be able to choose from a bunch of guys with potential (nolan, goudelick, jenkins, morris, jackson, shumpert, mcamey, selby).
by bucketsncents on Jun 16, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Classic big man over-reach
Tyler’s got a ton of red flags. He could work out but there’s a pretty good chance you get absolutely nothing worthwhile out of your 17 pick. We need this pick to be a rotation player.
Yeah choosing Tyler at 17
Would make us “that team that totally reached for an iffy player because he is a true center”. I feel like this happens every year.
I’d go smaller with #17 – Brooks, Burks, Jimmer, Jackson, Darius Morris, Selby, Jenkins, etc. And if we get a later pick, then pick up somebody like Tyler, or Benson, or Vucevic (not sure if he’d be around). There’s less expectations coming from a later pick, and if Donnie and co. choose a big man with one, then it makes me feel alot better about what they think of him, as well as what they expect
well burks, brooks and jimmer are no-brainer. but tyler could be really good as late first round.
Knicks are probably gonna try to make some big trade on draft day, its our best chance to get someone really good.
no risk, no reward...
especially with limited picks in the next few years. while it may be a reach, it makes sense to reach now with cap room coming to us next year that we can use on free agents.
i get what you’re saying about wanting a rotation player, but there’s no guarantee that selby (character red flags), jenkins (weak division red flags), shumpert (all athlete/no skill red flags), brooks (chucker/no pass red flags) are going to be the guys we hope they are.
if we’re going to over-reach, especially with the construction of our current team… i’d rather over-reach big than small… who are more common in the free agent market than bigs.
by bucketsncents on Jun 16, 2011 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
those reaches are for projects
and by projects I mean, dudes that don’t really know how to play basketball (sene, olowokandi, petro). Tyler, by all accounts, can ball. He’s got an array of post moves and is aggressive near the basket. All his red flags are attitude concerns. But the kid went overseas, played for two different teams and just turned 20. He’s has bust potential sure, but his upside at 17 is greater than any other player.
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jun 17, 2011 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I would be fine NOT taking Biyombo if he was on the board at 17...
but I wouldn’t necessarily choose Jeremy Tyler instead. Im my view he is just as much of a risk (if not more) than Biyombo.
Both seem very talented, but… if we pass on Biyombo it should be because we want a guy who is ready to step in NOW and be productive. Not 2-3 years from now.
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Jun 16, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
But why not try and move up to get Biyombo and then draft a guard later.
I would love to add that guy Nolan.
Let's say
the team with the 25th pick wanted to get our 17th pick for their 25th pick and the 10th guy in their rotation. Would you take that?
If we want to move up it’s going to take Toney Douglas, Landry Fields, or both, and even then it still might be un-doable. I’ve watched enough drafts to be sure we are not going to just ‘move up to get Biyombo’. It’s going to cost us. So that’s ‘Why not’.
Sorry. Currence’s post has emboldened my snark.
Maybe it's because this guy literally didn't exist to me until I started paying attention to the draft, but this guy gives me major pause.
Especially after that workout video. I realize it was maybe the worst, most head-scratching choice of skill sets to display while at the same time not scheduling any actual in-person workouts, but I feel like this guy’s ceiling is an Okafur with a floor of Thabeet. He has freakishly long arms, but he’s just barely under 6’8" without shoes.
I just feel uncomfortable drafting a guy like this who’s all physical potential with little to no actual basketball skill. Usually GM’s doing his err on the side of offense and end up with DJ White. I just hope we don’t do this and end up with Hasheem Thabeet.
this. bismarck is gonna be HUGE offensive liability for teams, we dont have time to develop him. We have to compete next year.
Plus Tyler actually looks much better. he is still 19, but seem to have matured oversees. its funny his major weaknees supposed to be maturity, but now everybody is praising his maturity level. This guy reminds of d jordan, except with better fundamental skills coming to the league.
Disagree with a couple of your points
The guy’s wingspan gives him a standing reach higher than Dwight Howard. And I think he probably has a better competetive head than Thabeet, from what I’ve read. But, absent a shooting touch, he’ll have to learn some additional skills to stay on an NBA floor – especially with a coach like D’antoni. He’s not a bad type of guy to have, but I would not trade up for him, and I’m not sure picking a guy like this is the right strategy. I think he could be like a Tyson Chandler type of guy, but I think, like Chandler, it could take a while.
He's more athletic then those guys
also Dwight Howard is all of 6"9 without shoes (they also play with shoes here, tho maybe not in the Congo). He’s also very coordinated, so he absolutely will not be another Thabeet.
I don’t really go for drafting Biyambo, but its really all to do with him being useless on offense. He’s got potential on defense (blocked shots aren’t really defense and that’s all he does). Athletically he’s Dwight Howard tho. You don’t find players at any age with his height, body type and overall athleticism.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Jun 16, 2011 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
But your missing some points.
He may be 6’8" without shoes but that is like being 6’10" in the NBA, seriously check players listed as 6’10" like Kevin Love, he measure at like 6’7". He’s also got freakishly long arms (longer than Dwight’s) and great athleticism.
Add I can tell you now, there’s no way he’s nearly as bad as Thabeet. Thabeet has zero heart and it was always obvious, everyone knew he was going to be a bust when Memphis drafted him. But you look at Bismack (or Bismark) and his story, you can tell that he truly loves the game and has a desire to be great. Read that Chad Ford article on him, he started off at 16 playing pro bball in a low division but kept working hard and made it to the top league in unprecedented time. Then you hear him talk how he wants to lead the NBA in blocks and rebounds, you can already see that he’s more determined to be great.
Of course he has bust potential. Everybody does, the key is weighing his upside against his bust potential, and his upside greatly out-weighs the bust potential because having a defensively dominant center is so rare in the NBA that he’s worth the pick. But this also why, I can’t see him last past pick #11.
In all honesty
It’s complete bullshit to think of his questionable age as the deciding factor in whether or not a team will sign him. A doctor confirmed he’s 18-19 years old. If teams don’t draft him because he’s a project, or because they feel he has a low ceiling on his offense then I’ll get that. But if a GM passes on him because he’s too good to be 18 years old then, if I were Donnie Walsh, I’d laugh and take him. He is probably the best mildly realistic player we could draft this summer.
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.
Vince Lombardi
by moose35 on Jun 16, 2011 9:32 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
The risk of this kid is that so many teams are desperate for bigs and none of these of teams have the margin of error to make a mistake in selecting a big
And is this kid Serge Ibaka or is he DeSagana Diop
If you have two 1st round picks then I’d say take a flyer on him.
If like the Knicks you only have one pick and very little in tradeable goods to deal for another big if the kid flames out, then that’s a heavy risk with very little information to base it on.
"Man, I've got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals."
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
"Franchise Tag: Enabling Incompetent Owners to remain imcompetent"
"Contenders do; pretenders give excuses why they did not"
"Yes everybody does have an opinion; but that does not make your opinion any less wrong"
"That ought to stop your bitchin"
Doing due diligence is all this is. It seems that its more so Biyambo’s people doing this tho
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
agreed
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Jun 16, 2011 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
is there a limit to how many 1st round picks the knicks can buy?
are you only allowed to buy 1 from other teams?
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
no limit by rules, but there are only so many picks that teams will sell.
I’d say 2 first rounders get sold this year. Each for at least $3 million and maybe a future 2nd. It just comes down to how much Dolan is willing to spend.
And
If any first rounders are sold, they’re almost certainly going to be between 20 and 30, probably between 25 and 30.
See, first rounders get guaranteed money, and the late first rounders quite possibly aren’t good enough to make your rotation, so teams try to get 3 million for them plus the savings they get by not having to pay a 2 year guaranteed contract.
Early second rounders are a little more valuable because 2nd rounders don’t get a guaranteed contract – you can just not sign them if you don’t like what you see in summer league. later second rounders are usually obtainable for some cash from teams that just don’t have the roster spot for a player not likely to have an impact.
For some teams pick #31-40 are better than #25-30 b/c of the unguaranteed deals.
This year I’d say some picks that are available:
- from Minnesotta (no way they add 2 rookies to that young roster, but they’d want a player)
- from Boston (reportedly want out of the draft)
- and #30 from Chicago (They probably keep one and draft a shooter/SG, other should be available).
The problem I see is that Boston and Chicago would not want to trade the pick to a team they’ll see in the playoffs (us).
I had heard Boston
Gave a guarantee to Reggie Jackson? Now they want out?
I think we should definitely go after a 2nd rounder over a late 1st, if possible. Getting two 1st round players would add something like 5 mil (I think) to our payroll next year, when we’ll finally (hopefully) have money to spend. May not be that easy though, so I bet you’re right that Chicago would sell a pick
I heard the Reggie guarantee from Boston
was guaranteed bullshit.
Maybe it was the Knicks that guaranteed him…?
no way. It wouldn't make any sense for NY to guarantee him
Apparently he won’t workout or interview w anyone. There were rumors NJ and Boston both gave him guarantees but there have been recent reports that both aren’t true. So if the Knicks gave him a guarantee at 17, why would we work out all these players (not just the late guys we’ve been doing recently).
Wait
Reggie Jackson is refusing to work out or interview with any teams? If I’m understanding that correctly, that throws up some red flags. I know he’s injured and didn’t attend the combine, but to not do anything seems a little sketchy.
I hope I’m misunderstanding because I’m a big proponent of getting Jackson one way or another
What if Donnie Walsh called Jackson pretending to be Danny Ainge?
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Jun 16, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Am I the only one who's not 100% on board with Biyombo??
The guy has a good build and is a good defender and rebounder… fine. When did he become such a sure-fire prospect that if he drops to #17 that he is our without-a-doubt choice??
Granted at 17 we want to take the best athlete I guess, but it looks like there will be a plethora of different players available with a number of fewer question marks than with Biyombo. Throw in the heavy risk of drafting a raw overseas center (really guys, few of them pan out) and then that Biyombo is pretty much a defensive stopper who has almost no offensive skills and this guy should NOT be our instant favorite if available.
Sure, put him on the shortlist, but holy cow, temper your expectations guys!
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Jun 16, 2011 11:12 AM EDT reply actions
I'm not even 1% on board with Biyambo
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Jun 16, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah... I mean, I'm highly skeptical of him.
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Jun 16, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
I am 35% on board with Biyombo
but only 25% of that is really into it… the other 10% is kinda just going with the flow.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
I think Biyombo would be a solid pick at 17
in general – but to me, it’s not a great pick for the Knicks with their coach and their two superstars and 4 year window.
Amare's knees and all
but I don’t know if it’s fair to assume there’s only the next four years to win with Melo and Amare. Also, the Lakers grabbed an 17 year old Bynum when Kobe was 27 or so. That worked out ok
Agreed!
At first I was super excited, but reading more into it, I’m not sure if he’s even a good fit here. We could probably get a better player at a different position at #17, and then draft a center with a later pick who could be just as likely to pan out as Biyombo.
Now, take this with a grain of salt because I’m a fan and biased, but Keith Benson is 2-3 inches taller, his wingspan and standing reach are only 2-3 inches shorter than Biyombo, but he has 10x the offensive game, averaged a legit 10 rebounds per game, and more blocks per game. He’s also about 25lb lighter, but adding weight is easier than adding an offensive game when one is nonexistant. My point is, there’s guys with similar qualities to Biyombo, who have the same chance at becoming a quality center
Guys who can’t shoot at all don’t usually become serviceable. Even guys like Rondo and Anthony Randolph can hit shots in workouts. Chris Andersen isn’t considered much of a shooter, and he makes half of his jump shots in actual games.
However, consider his extreme lack of experience, and that he shot free throws considerably better than Ben Wallace, and that he’s 6’9.5 in shoes, 245 pounds, very low body fat. He’s much stronger than Thabeet and supposedly give more effort on the court.
But I don’t know if I’d risk it unless the Knicks had at least one other pick.
No joke I've seen Chris Anderson play live 2-3 times in my life.
He was unstoppable in pre-game shoot around. Like no joke, he was draining threes without any effort.
Can one of the Biyombo age doubters summarize what evidence there is against him being 18?
I only ask because, from reading the DX profile, there doesn’t seem to be much beyond “he’s more mature/developed than most 18yos.” If his agent commissioned the bone plate study, he was probably trying to dispel rumors – hard to fake something like that, if a team is invited to see the results. Is this just Oden/Mutombo-esque hot air?
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
Could be something against birth records in the Congo?
Lol, I don’t know the actual evidence, but theres gotta be some sort of DNA tsting or something equivalent to cutting the dude in half and counting the rings…. you know… like they do with trees!
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Jun 16, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
What the doctors did was take an x-ray, and saw that certain bones in his arms had not solidified yet. DNA wouldn’t help, as in theory it stays the same yr whole life.
by superturboultra on Jun 16, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
then it's the cutting board!
We’ll get to the bottom of this. Long Form Birth Certificate time!!!! Where’s Donald Trump?!
I did hear about the XRay thing.
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Jun 16, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
New reality TV show – Donald Trump hewing foreign NBA prospects in half and reading the entrails to tell us how old they are (or were)!
Whatever it takes to keep him from running for president.
by superturboultra on Jun 16, 2011 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
sports + Trump + thinly veiled racism
would be an instant hit! do it with MLB too. I’d probably watch it.
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
The draft site that tweeted about us moving up to 15 with Indiana (who started the rumor) just tweeted:
Probballdraft
@thenyknicks are very active trying to get last minute prospects in for workouts. NY brass is confident they can trade up to get a target.
The targets for Knicks if they move up are Jimmer, Klay Thompson, Chris Singleton, & possibly Kemba.
Right now the most available picks in the lottery are Timberwolves (2), Kings (7), & Rockets (14).
Very interesting. good news IMO.
I’m assuming our last minute workouts include Biyombo (Who according to Chad Ford will be working out for us early next week) and possibly Kemba. Two very good targets. Kemba might be a great fit for us now (good PG off the bench, similar to Ty Lawson), but can he play like a true PG?
Kemba can play like a true PG
but at worst he’s a more athletic, better finishing Toney Douglas, which is a good thing
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
oh god I don't like any of those players
good thing it’s probably a smokescreen
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
yes
Fredette and Walker are bench scorers, Thompson and Singleton will be lucky to become rotation players. We have to aim higher – if we’re trading up, there are much better players to choose from
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
Burks, Biyombo, Motiejunas, Valanciunas
although if we’re talking about the players in question above, I’d rather stay put and take Selby
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
Get over the Jimmer love
The last three are bigs who all have potential to be starters in this league, which Jimmer does not. Last time I checked the Knicks could use a young talented center
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
jimmer is gonna be strating pg in this league. real beast in pnr and in ny under mike would be contributing from day one. kemba the same, burks would be real good fit too, but it would be tough for him hgoing aganist wade first couple of years.
bismarck is at least two years away of being any kind of offensive threat (at least that somebody is gonna guard him). Monty is nowhere sure thing, his looked terrible in his last workout and lacks realy intensity and is poor rebounder and defender. that boy is gonna really strugle on d end and he WILL NOT start with amare anytime soon.
How can Jimmer be a starting PG?
He’s fairly slow-footed, doesn’t have much of a handle, and can’t defend for his life.
If it weren’t for his cult status and NCAA (lol) success Jimmer would be considered a second rounder.
Biyombo is fine as long as he can finish at the basket. That’s all the Knicks would ask of him. Motiejunas still has a great skillset and can develop into much more than Jimmer can dream of.
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
lol.
‘’If it weren’t for his cult status and NCAA (lol) success Jimmer would be considered a second rounder.’’ well im mean OBVIOUSLY. are you saying his socalled succes was fluke or what, media construct, ha.
bismarck cant finish around the rim, this is the problem and he cant hit amf fhree trhow too. plus that boy will foul alot.
regarding monty will se, he is still young, but he sure as hell loked terrible in workouts. not his shooting, but he simply didnt give afuck. and that part where jimmer can dream to develop like monty is just gibberish. Jimmer is already really skilled, strong and pretty athletic.
identical to any argument that could've knocked Steph Curry
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
3.21 versus 3.28...
fredette wins the 3/4 court race.
11.07 versus 10.42
fredette wins the agility combine.
sure, there’s the argument that come game time, things change… but these measurements must be noted.
by bucketsncents on Jun 16, 2011 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
apparently not my strong suit...
feels good (i say hopping up and down shaking it out).
by bucketsncents on Jun 16, 2011 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
basically false
and as buckets just contributed, it favors Jimmer.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Steph Curry will never start in this league either
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Jimmer had like the third fasted lane agility tests at the combine
I think this idea that he’s unathletic and slow is just b/c he’s white lol.
Curry and Jimmer basically tested identical
on every agility test. And Jimmer outweighs him by a good 30lbs.
So to call Jimmer slow footed is to call Curry slow footed.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
that's surprising
at Davidson, Curry seemed to have way more burst off screens than Jimmer. maybe I haven’t seen enough of Jimmer
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
My first thought was that Curry was lightning quick
I knew Jimmer was fast as well but I had to see the stats to believe that he was as quick as Curry. Especially given that he is a bit heavier.
Really, the only thing seemingly against Fredette is his height. If that’s the only thing, I’m thrilled to have him a Knick if possible.
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Jun 17, 2011 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
actually jimmer is pretty quick, especially for his weight.
but its not only about raw speed and quickness, he simply has skill combined with quickness. his crossover dribble is very good and he knows how to work angles and finish. and off course you have to guard him completely different than rose or russ so all this he isnot fast or athletic as rose is bs. cause he is three times the shooter than both combined and players will have to guard jimmer very close. than you have to understand boy is great in iso and pnr, so in right system jimmer could be terror.
If he's skilled in the pick and roll
he could be Nashesque for us. Unfortunately, that probably applies to the defensive end as well!
like...
irving, kanter and knight, right? we don’t have the pieces to move up that high. kemba here is very intriguing.
Kemba is basically
best case: rich man’s Toney
worst case: poor man’s Toney
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
would you expect otherwise?
Rich man’s TD is a very good NBA starter. And we have the poor man’s Toney already, Toney Douglas.
Then again, Kemba is a lot better then Toney. He can actually take his man off the dribble and has actually run an offense to perfection in his lifetime. Plays defense, much faster and actually can finish at the rim.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
And we have the poor man’s Toney already, Toney Douglas.
I think my brain just broke.
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
this would imply it wasn't broke beforehand
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
I really don't like Singleton for this team, but besides him I like the list.
Although, if a big man falls from the lottery (I’m talking about Markeiff, Motiejunas and Biyombo) then the pick has to be him.
A lot of players in this draft can "stretch the floor"
doesn’t make them good first-round picks or NBA rotation players
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
so now Knicks fans
instantly hate him?
"Rooting for the Yankees is like rooting for Steve Jobs to win the lotto." - Chris Rock
Actually to be accurate
He told Klay when he was in NY for his workout that he reminded him of Reggie Miller. Walsh didn’t tell the press that today – Klay mentioned it today. Which is a far cry from saying the Knicks are really high on him.
by fuhry on Jun 17, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
really the only one I wouldn't move up for is Singleton.
Jimmer is worth it. Not sold on Klay but the Knicks apparently are. And Kemba I never really thought about the Knicks drafting as I never thought the Giants would get Prince Amukamara. That would be an incredible pick.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Kemba would be sick.
Winning in college is pretty important. I just hope he can adapt to the PG position in the NBA. Think of picking Kemba like picking Selby but with much less risk.
Chris Duhon, NCAA champion PG
’nuff said.
And Kemba’s ceiling is not even in the same building as Selby’s ceiling.
Ty Lawson
and Carmelo Anthony too… their college championships were also considered pluses… and it turns out they were.
My point was that winning a championship is college is not indicitive of professional success
Some guys win in the NCAA and go on to have great pro careers. Some don’t.
Kemba will be a lot better then Duhon
probably a lot better then Selby too. I dunno what the hell the reason is for always knocking Kemba.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Jun 17, 2011 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Duhon has had some good years...
but he also wasn’t nearly of the same importance to his team as Ty Lawson, Melo or Kemba or anyone who’s won recently. Duhon wasn’t the star of his team.
And of course winning an NCAA Championship is important. It’s playing winning basketball on a huge national stage. Playing under the most pressure possible in college.
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Jun 17, 2011 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Mateen Cleaves
"Rooting for the Yankees is like rooting for Steve Jobs to win the lotto." - Chris Rock
we should definitely try and get that #7
and get Jimmer. DX has them taking him there, he impressed them in workouts. Just like he has with every team he’s worked out for. Dude’s stock is skyrocketing.
"Rooting for the Yankees is like rooting for Steve Jobs to win the lotto." - Chris Rock
no way is Jimmer worth pick #7. I like him, but as a mid first.
If we get #7 (which I can’t see us getting TBH) then it has to be for Biyombo or Kanter.
We can think he's worth only a mid-first pick all we want
But if we want the guy and teams think highly of him, we’ve got to get the pick that can nab him.
Interesting
If the Knicks brass are confident they can trade up, they must know that either the Wolves, Kings, or Rockets are very interested in Landry Fields or Toney Douglas.
Personally, just a gut feeling, I think maybe the Kings want Fields. To me, Fields (#3 in ROY balloting) has got to be the only asset teams would think about giving up a high pick for. Toney Douglas is a good guy to have but I don’t see teams trading down a top ten pick for him.
As for the Knicks targets – is that also coming from Knicks brass? Or just speculation? I think it’s speculation. But if those four guys are what they’re going for, it sounds like guys that will be available (or in Kemba’s case) might be available at 7. If the Knicks really thought they’d have a chance at #2, they’d be bringing in Kyrie Irving and Brandon Knight.
minny is always interested to do the silly thing. mark is gonna pull ty lawson 2.0
This time is gonna be second pick and kemba. lol.
I wonder if the Kings are considering trading Demarcus Cousins?
cuz for those of us that feel Voldemort’s return is inevitable, that nipplehead would be a Knick in no time
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
maybe we'll finally get our hands on...
hassan whiteside!!!!!!!
by bucketsncents on Jun 16, 2011 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
true
I mean its not like we have any first round picks to trade anymore
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Valanciunas is better then Kanter
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Jun 16, 2011 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not usually big on the foreign guys
but I agree. I’d rather pick Valanciunas than Kanter. Maybe that’s because Kanter is actually a foreign guy too. Mostly because there’s just something about Kanter that rubs me the wrong way a little. I think it’s that picture of him in the cowboy hat. It’s like he likes being a rockstar more than he likes winning a basketball game.
If we trade up to 2 and draft Enes I think everyone will be really mad
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
by The Rooster on Jun 16, 2011 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
not mad. Kanter is massive and has legit size, it would just be a huge risk IMO
more of a risk than Biyombo or Valanuicias IMO.
we'd be passing on Irving or Williams?
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
considering most people want a center
I doubt they’d be mad, unless they drafted Kanter/Valaciunas over Kyrie Irving.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
I think Williams is the best prospect in this draft
I really do… but with Melo and Amar’e he’s kind of redundant for us, unless he can play shooting guard. Hey, maybe he can.
of course he impresses them
he’s white and mormon, what more could they ask for?
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Draft Express is unbelievably optimistic on these best/worst cases
Best Case: 6-9 Version Of Dwight Howard
Worst Case: Taj Gibson
If his worst case really is Taj Gibson I’d be ridiculously happy to get him
Yeah Givony loves him.
But I think he has a good reason to love him, this kind is screaming with upside.
So he's comparing him directly to Dwight Howard, who is 6"9
also I dunno how he’s Taj Gibson, who had an already developed outside shot coming out of USC
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Yeah that's not the best of comparisons
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
I'm sticking to my guns - I still want Vucevic in the 1st and rather than buy up, I buy early to mid-2nd and get 1 or more picks like Jenkins, Jackson, Benson, Selby etc
Basically (I prefer Jenkins) whatever best Guard is available or if their all gone and there stands Benson, I grab him. For us to move up for Jimmer, JJ must’ve really tightened up his game beyond our belief, Safari must’ve undergone adamantium steel surgery and has now changed his name to Wolverine, or there is a lineup outside Knicks offices of quality NBA FA Big Men willing to split the MLE or whatever is left for us to spend like we were a McDonalds drive thru.
Unless we have solid plans for backing up Amar’e, and in most cases, replacing him in the paint so he can do what he does best, which is score belligerently. I like Amar’e, but he is not our Center. If we want his back to heal and knees to stay healthy, the last thing we want is guys like Dwight pounding on him (I thought Amar’e was done for sure the day Dwight fell directly on top of him at the end of the season). He’s very big up top, but he still trucks around on skinny legs that aren’t built for taking that kind of punishment (my humble opinion).
We need 2 picks in this draft and a very good scorer and legit big man with good hands and box-out-ability, or a reliable PG. All 3 would be awesome, but at least we can then look to FA and the D’League to further fill in the blanks. And don’t sleep on Joe Alexander or a similar player. If they show good in DL, they’ll look shiny on our 2nd team which is feisty as hell on defense, but lacking the O (‘cept TD of course). I won’t talk trades, not my area nor do I like trying to crunch numbers or ESPN trade machines. So i’ll leave it at that.
agree to go big with our first...
and best available scorer/pg with a bought 2nd. and digging on the joe alexander, bonzi wells, javaris crittendon experimentation.
our frontcourt lack of depth is scary… and amare, bad back and all… needs major help.
by bucketsncents on Jun 16, 2011 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I'm not knocking on Amar'e, either, I really like him on our team
I just like him better as a help defender rather than our first line of defense. And I want a guy who can secure the ball, not just tip it around. The best guy I am surprised to say who was good at that at the end of the season at securing the ball was Melo. This is fine and I’m even OK with him bringing the ball up, but given what a fantastic finisher he is in the open court, I want to see us with a center able to secure the rebound and start the break more often. Many breaks were wasted on sloppy layups and guys stopping for quick 3 pointers
i’m curious what it would take to get javale mcgee. would turiaf and a 2020 1st (or whenever the hell we have a pick again) get it done? maybe throw TD in there as well?
then draft a pg (selby or brooks) with our 17 pick and resign anthony carter. the youngster could learn from billups while not being expected to be thrown straight into the fire.
Except maybe this year's
I’m really not that high on any of these guys. If we can get a guy who’s better than the field, then I’d do it.
Not sure why the Wizz would trade McGee for Turiaf and a pick, they could do better. If they want to save money, they just don’t pick up his extension this year.
by superturboultra on Jun 17, 2011 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions
McGee
is, I think, a case of the grass being greener. I don’t think he’s as good a basketball player as Ronny Turiaf. If you could transfer Turiaf’s brain into his body, then hell yeah. But smart basketball players win championships. If McGee was easily signed for very little money, that’d be fine to take a flyer on, but I don’t think it’s worth giving up actual useful basketball players for him.
Javel McGee is not an upgrade here
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Jun 17, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
in comparison to a real center, like tyson chandler or marc gasol or dwight howard, both turiaf and mcgee are trash. in comparison to each other i’d prefer a younger, taller, and more polished on the offensive end mcgee than turiaf. plus he’s cheaper.
oh sure, in comparison with Turiaf anyone's an upgrade cuz he never plays
but I’d rather be worried about getting a C here that could help us maybe get past the first round of the playoffs.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
mcgee's your guy...
just kidding, but as we all know, there’s slim pickin’s out there. FA pool is shallow and costly… and the draft pool is “swim at your own risk”.
i say we trust in our young veterans to coach up any young talent we bring in, and scrounge up the best “has been’s” we can find.
by bucketsncents on Jun 17, 2011 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Swim at your own risk!
I heard Biyombo wears floaties! HOW COULD THIS GO WRONG???
by superturboultra on Jun 18, 2011 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
it can't...
unless you consider wrong bringing in an athletic freak with the desire, and ability to lead the league in rebounding, block shots… and the perfect nickname… SMACK!
by bucketsncents on Jun 18, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
For some reason I can't reply, but this is a reply to the McGee comments.
McGee is one of the up and coming centers in the league. He’s 7’1" with long arms and unseen athleticism (for his height). Washington won’t even trade him for the #2, so there’s no way we can get out hands on him.
But, I’m pretty sure he’ll be a FA in 2012 (along with Hibbert) and maybe then we can get him.
For those saying he wouldn’t be an upgrade… are you kidding me? The kid may be dumb but he he’s a great defender and rebounder. He also dunks anything near the paint. To me that sounds like perfect center for us.
with you...
the kid is young as hell, long as shit, bouncy as all get out and while he’s no rocket scientist, his purpose would be simple and clear. run run run… block block block… board board board… dunk and rotate when our older, smarter players get burnt on the perimeter. as much as i love turiaf’s personality, to not consider trading a guy who is unreliable for a guy with mcgee’s current ability and potential would be very foolish.
not that it’s happening or anything.
by bucketsncents on Jun 17, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
JaVale McGee is an awful defender
Blocked shots =/= good defense
by flossy on Jun 17, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
and crowd pleasing hustle but always injured =/= helpful
by bucketsncents on Jun 17, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
If you want "crowd pleasing hustle" go find some rotation players at the local Y
seems like that’s the direction you’d like the Knicks to go in, at this point
McGee is a liability and is not worthy of PT for any contending team.
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
read more closely...
i said crowed pleasing hustle (turiaf) is not helpful. was using flossy’s =/= sign to reflect DOES NOT EQUAL.
by bucketsncents on Jun 17, 2011 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
i'll give turiaf his due...
he rotates well and can block some shots (crappy rebounder). but his unreliability has a significant effect on the ability of the team to gel. not knowing his status game in and game out is a drain on the chemistry, and i’m just not sure he’s worth what we all wish he was worth. at best, he’s a great locker room guy who can change the energy when called on, but for where we’re trying to go, his inconsistency is too much of an anchor on our teams on-court unity.
by bucketsncents on Jun 17, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
oh
I still doesn’t know how that makes McGee anything but a horrible defender
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
If internet comments could make a player anything but a horrible defender, it should have worked on STAT by now.
by superturboultra on Jun 17, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
and there's no stat to prove that he's as awful a defender as you say...
which is convenient for you… however… there are other stats…
79 games played last year (how many did turiaf play? how many games in a season?) 27 mpg… 10 ppg… 8 rpg… 2.5 bpg… and oh… 55% from the field (which proves he knows his offensive limitations). yeah, not advanced stats… but clearly not shitty.
no one is saying he’s the next dwight, but this argument that he’s too dumb to be useful is very weak… as is the argument that he’s a bad defender (no way to prove). sure, he hasn’t made the wizards winners (no one has in years)… but to deny that he has any tools of value seems absurd.
by bucketsncents on Jun 17, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
and there’s no stat to prove that he’s as awful a defender as you say…
Watch him play, maybe?
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
weak...
c’mon, respond to his stats… which i know, don’t tell the whole story. look, clearly there’s no convincing you that a 23 year old, 7’0 250 pound freak of an athlete with a never ending wingspan and absurd hops and oh, 2 years of fairly productive NBA experience could be an asset on our team…
so we’ll leave it there.
by bucketsncents on Jun 17, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
No, we won't
I know you like to throw out incorrect, badly sourced claims and “leave it there,” but the stats you posted are meaningless, and any casual observer can tell that McGee has no idea what he’s doing on defense other than “swat the ball away from the basket.”
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
"incorrect, badly sourced claims"?
so he doesn’t hit 55% of his shots when he takes them? so on average, in 27 minutes of game time he doesn’t grab 8 rebounds and block a lot of shots?
show me some advanced statistics that reflect the claims of his profound lack of utility, and i’ll consider your claim… otherwise, i’m going to continue to want a 23 year old above average athlete who is 7’ 250 and has shown steady improvement in his 2 years on our team.
and i tried to “leave it there” because predictably, i knew you were going to start to try and sneak in some personal attacks (“i know you like”)… and i tried to take the other path and agree to disagree.
but you keep saying the same thing which is “c’mon, just watch him… he sucks, and other guys say so too so i must be right”.
by bucketsncents on Jun 17, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
He doesn’t take a lot of shots because he plays with the NBA’s statistically biggest black hole, Nick Young, and a host of other shoot-first players on an awful team.
Getting rebounds on a team with no other rebounders is not impressive. He should be getting more than eight per game, honestly.
show me some advanced statistics that reflect the claims of his profound lack of utility, and i’ll consider your claim…
There’s no great advanced stat for individual defense, especially for a player on a bad defensive team. Statistics shouldn’t be used as singular proofs in sports arguments anyways (thanks a lot ESPN). McGee’s listed opponent’s PER is worse than average, but is not all that bad (17.7)
Still, observation is the best way to judge a player’s defensive impact. I’m too poor to subscribe to Synergy, but from watching McGee in games he’s still bad at positioning and footwork, leading to made baskets and unnecessary fouls. His block total is deceiving, given that
1) he has to block more shots than necessary because he’s always out of position, and
2) he goaltends more than any player I’ve seen in the past decade. It’s as if he honestly doesn’t know the rule.
I like JaVale McGee, and I hope he keeps improving, but he is not a good defender whatsoever. Height and athleticism don’t make you a good defender if all you can do is swat at the guy you just gave an open look due to your own ineptitude. I don’t think he’s anywhere near ready to play for a contending team that can’t afford mental lapses, bad positioning, and stupid fouls from its primary post defender.
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
i think the only point mcgee supporters...
are making, at least this one, is that given the fairly significant drought in legit NBA centers, a player with his attributes is a huge step up from what we currently have. given his age and the turmoil (arenas, crittendon) and constant changeovers in leadership (coaching, ownerships) in his franchise since he’s been in the league, i think it’s safe to say he hasn’t had the support or stability to maximize his obvious strengths… and it’s unfair to attribute his lack of defensive fundamentals solely to IQ.
by bucketsncents on Jun 17, 2011 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
given the fairly significant drought in legit NBA centers, a player with his attributes is a huge step up from what we currently have.
True, but for what it would cost, it’s hardly worth it when you can sign or trade for a less sexy but more fundamentally sound cheap alternative. The Wizards aren’t exactly shopping McGee after all.
. given his age and the turmoil (arenas, crittendon) and constant changeovers in leadership (coaching, ownerships) in his franchise since he’s been in the league, i think it’s safe to say he hasn’t had the support or stability to maximize his obvious strengths…
Very possibly true. He did suck in college, though.
and it’s unfair to attribute his lack of defensive fundamentals solely to IQ.
I’m not attributing his lack of fundamentals to anything – I’m just saying he lacks fundamentals.
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
if it is IQ...
than he’s less attractive… if it’s just poor upbringing, than he’s a diamond in the rough, not far off from shining.
but agreed, getting him is highly unlikely.
by bucketsncents on Jun 17, 2011 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
i dont know how to box or i would
“True, but for what it would cost, it’s hardly worth it when you can sign or trade for a less sexy but more fundamentally sound cheap alternative”
mcgee will be making 2.4 million. what cheaper alternative is out there?
my thinking is as follows: if turiaf only plays 18 minutes a game who plays the other 30? probably some scrub (JJ I’m looking at you) or someone undersized (amare at the 5). both leave us woefully weak.
mcgee for 30 minutes would be better than what we trot out there. i’ve heard rumblings that wash would take kanter if available, and have entertained rumors of mcgee (only if someone bites on blatche) so mcgee is possible, and more importantly – CHEAP.
MU
MU – any old center would be better than what we trot out there, which is a combination of STAT playing out of position and a number of SF’s. This does not make a player an upgrade for the 70% of the time that Turiaf is either injured, tired, or ineffective.
MU – McGee and Turiaf do not match salary-wise, so trading them wouldn’t make any sense, even if Washington wanted to do us the huge favor of taking on Turiaf’s contract for a year when they could just let McGee’s contract expire this summer.
MU – McGee is what he is, he’s a center with serious fundamental issues. So is Dalembert, who makes McGee look like a Rhodes Scholar on the court. And Biyombo has his known issues as well, primarily offensive ineptitude and an inability to catch the ball.
Assuming there is a mid-level exception, there is one player who will be available this summer (UFA) who is fundamentally solid, albeit without a huge amount of potential. He’s shorter than most centers, but he does not let that make him ineffective. He’s young, smart, and can stop the other team’s best big man while still doing his job of boxing out, and he has a great killer instinct.
Chuck Hayes, please!
by superturboultra on Jun 18, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
wash might do it to get value for mcgee. there’s no sense in letting him go for nothing. as a tall body he has inherent value, even if he isn’t reaching his potential.
we need to get bigger, not smaller. enough of this chuck hayes 6’5 nonsense. he was able to dominate amare b’c amare has poor fundamentals and keeps the ball low making it easy to strip him. most bigs keep it higher negating chuck’s prowess.
having watched a lot of chuck hayes due to location...
and chuck hayes is legit in guarding opposing bigs. he has and will be always can handle a lot of the bigs in the league. chuck as a post defender is a great fundamental defender. nope it won’t show like tyson chandler but he’s great when he’s at it.
Victory goes to the courageous!!
He's the Anthony Randolph of centers
he’s exciting and shows potential on a horrible Wizards team. But put him on a team of veterans with a coach that actually expects you to have an IQ larger then a rock’s, yea….he’d be a waste.
Probably a strong candidate to be in Pringles ""doghouse", tho he’d 100% deserve to be there since he’s dumb.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
or put him on a team of veterans with a coach...
that expects you to fill your role, and maybe a kid oozing with talent evolves into exactly what we need?
by bucketsncents on Jun 17, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
just like Anthony Randolph
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
randolph...
thought, and heard in the media, that he had the skillset to be the next odom or kukoc… and so he kept sucking trying to be something he isn’t.
mcgee at least knows his limitations at this point… which is a sign of intelligence.
by bucketsncents on Jun 17, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah. McGee knows his limits and I've never seem him take a shot outside of the paint (except for a few post ups, which showed promise)
But I didn’t watch many Wizards games, so maybe I’m wrong.
McGee knows his limitations?
how so?
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
he's not launching up 3's last i checked...
unlike randoph who was trying to be magic johnson.
by bucketsncents on Jun 17, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Randolph was beating the Knicks best 3pt shooters in practice every day
its just practice, but you gotta start it somewhere.
McGee, on the court, is nothing but the center version of Anthony Randolph,.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
at least mcgee knew he was a center...
what was randolphs position again? you can’t compare the 2… other than length and leaping ability. one has been fairly consistent over the past 2 years and shown growth… and the other has not.
by bucketsncents on Jun 17, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Randolph didn't have a position not by his own doing
One has been fairly consistent due to not being injured nearly as much.
I’d rather have no part of McGee. Jerome Jordan is probably a better fit.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
we'll find out...
and durability is also a nice quality for a player to possess.
i’d love for jerome to produce the stats mcgee does, with more offensive versatility. if we get 10, 8, 2.5 and 55% from jerome… we’re gonna be in damn good shape.
by bucketsncents on Jun 17, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Really?
This is the first I’ve heard of this. Do you have a link? Because I’d be very surprised if he was the best on an above average outside shooting team.
by superturboultra on Jun 17, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
it was all over Newsday during the season
find one and pick it.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
this anthony randolph argument is like when ppl tell me – ZBO was amazing, how did you let him go? we let him go because his fatass wanted to chuck up 3’s instead of play 2 feet from the rim. some people are just dumb as shit (like AR).
mcgee is immature. I feel there is a subtle difference there. Immature MIGHT be cured by the top 3 offensive player in the game (melo) and top 5 big man (amare) giving him some knowledge.
AR was the skinny ZBO. dumb as shit. and that’s why he’s playing in siberia or minnesota or wherever the hell he is.
Really?
Because a search of “Anthony Randolph Newsday +practice shooting” came up with nothing but this regarding the matter: http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/the-knicks-fix-1.812055/tempers-flare-in-post-practice-scrimmage-1.2476866
Maybe you misread it, because from that article it’s pretty clear to me that Shawne Williams was killing it in practice, but Anthony Randolph got minutes because he was the centerpiece of the David Lee trade.
by superturboultra on Jun 18, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
that was definitely not the article
really nothing to misread there nor anything to do with what I said.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Jun 18, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Except Hahn kinda strongly implying the opposite of what you did…
by superturboultra on Jun 18, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
again, it wasn't the article
so he can strongly imply whatever he damn well pleases.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
yea there was that too
but pretty sure it was Poop who told Newsday, or maybe it was the Post, that Randolph was always winning a 3pt contest they’d have in practice.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Jun 18, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Another tweet from the site that has been talking about the Knicks moving up:
Knicks fans watch closely the Biyombo workout. Would be a great fit & very intriguing pick for NY. Becoming more likely he is there at 17.
Here’s the twitter page if anybody is interested.
http://twitter.com/#!/Probballdraft
I wish Biyombo was there, but I can’t see Detroit, Houston, Golden State, Phoenix, Indiana and Philly all passing on him.
I still think we need to trade up.
Trading up means we are trading Fields and/or Douglas
for a guy who has a chance to be good….. Very dangerous business, if you ask me.
We are gonna regret it if we take Biyombo at #17
I have a bad feeling about this….
It’s gonna be a Frederick Weis thing all over again. Certainly not as drastic, but I am becoming more and more skeptical about how good Biyombo might actually be.
It would be different if we had more than 1 draft pick…which we may when all is said and done…but as of right now… I’m scared this pick could be blown. Especially so when you consider the diverse talent that is expected to be on the board at #17…
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Jun 17, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, the names thrown around as likely to be available are all over the place.
Selby, Marshon Brooks, MAYBE Jimmer, MAYBE Klay Thompson, Singleton, Burks, Markieff Morris, Charles Jenkins, Reggie Jackson, MAYBE Donatas, Faried, etc etc.
I’m not necessarily saying all of those guys are better choices than Biyombo… but I’m just really wondering if Biyombo is this years over-hyped big who doesn’t pan out. Not to mention we are not talkin about potentially bringing the dude along slowly either.
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Jun 17, 2011 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
DX has Alec Burks falling to us
if that happens… :o that kid is the next Brandon Roy.
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
I'd say there's a diverse selection
if we get to pick between, let’s say: Burks/Brooks, Singleton, Morris, Donatas, Selby, Faried
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
Word up
Burks looks awesome. His shot is kind of “eh….” but he looks like a guy that’s gonna hang in this league for awhile
I like Burks
He’s solid and a two-way guy, and I think (hope) he can develop an outside shot.
by superturboultra on Jun 17, 2011 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Frederick Weis?
Let’s not get carried away, Weis never even played in the NBA. Any pick can be blown, but I don’t see why he’s more of a risk than other guys.
I think he’d do a lot of the things that the Knicks need, like rebound, defend the low post, and create possessions on defense. We don’t need a guy you can dump the ball to in the low post, we already have STAT and Melo who can more or less do whatever they want on offense. And I think he’ll surprise some people with his footwork – amid all the clanging in his workout vid, there was quite a bit of good moves once he finally had the ball in his sticky hands.
by superturboultra on Jun 17, 2011 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Weis was a bust cuz he never played for us, tough to tell what he would've done if he played here.
are you thinking Biyambo never plays in the NBA?
I wouldn’t trade up for Biyambo, that’s for god damn sure. But at #17 we could do a lot worse (like Kenneth Faried).
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
I don't think Biyombo will be Frederick Weis but I worry his perception is much larger than his reality.
but the Knicks were so high on Frederick Weis that they drafted him even though he had a back injury and refused to let the Knicks doctors examine him.
Obviously Biyombo is a different scenario than that, but at this point, I feel like he won’t be the guy we think of him to be. I think he is much more of a risky pick than we should be taking. If we already had a center who we could count on to be at least decent (I love Turiaf and he is decent, but he IS consistent injury risk… couple games here and couple games there all season) and we could afford to let Biyombo develop for a year, then sure go with it. But we are drafting with the intent to get a guy who can step in a play meaningful minutes kinda like Landry fields was able to do.
We aren’t in develop mode anymore. We are in win mode. And with limited capspace and obvious holes in our roster, I think we need a more NBA ready player.
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Jun 17, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
get a more NBA ready player...
to play behind established veterans and starters? or draft an athletically ready player to play a position that is currently empty and have him learn from our veterans?
it’s a tough question that clearly divides a lot of fans. if we were asking biyombo to put up points and provide skills other than keeping his player in front of him, jumping higher than the opponent for rebounds and keeping one eye on his guy and one eye on the ball… i’d say no. but i’m with the biyombo fans… i think he (and jeremy tyler) are worth the risk.
but i do understand the other argument for “readier” players… not that we know with any certainty.
by bucketsncents on Jun 17, 2011 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, I’m not really sold that there are players in this draft that would play more minutes for the Knicks than he would, especially this first season.
I think we can discount guys who would play PF/SF right away for obvious reasons, and PG because Billups will still be here for a year along with DWTDD as the first guard off the bench. At SG, we’ve got Landry, although ideally I’d like him to come in after Melo, so maybe getting a SG works.
But at C we’ve got nothing beyond Turiaf, and he’s so hurt he can’t play a lot anyway (1141 minutes last year, less than 30% of the time available and without really anyone to compete with for minutes).
I think in this case, the best win-now guy is also a guy with a huge upside (but also a HUGE risk). Sounds about right for #17…
by superturboultra on Jun 17, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
you can get by with a league average center. if we had joel anthony i’d be content. biyombo is raw and will not come in and play 20-30 minutes a game.
sheldon williams couldn’t get playing time and he’s an established defender. we need to draft small, since a lot of guard assets are going to be shipped out to acquire cp3.
I could see us trading Douglas
But trading Fields and the #17 would be very risky business. The guy finished 3rd in ROY voting. Do we expect anything better to come from a lottery pick in this year’s draft? I’d be fine if it wad TD+cash for a lottery pick, in which case we’d have 2 picks. We need to add talent, not trade a proven commodity for an unproven one that might/might not be better.
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.
Vince Lombardi
UPDATE.
Probballdraft Probasketballdraft
Bad news #Knicks fans. Sounds like Biyombo won’t fall to 17. Add him w/ Thompson, & #Jimmer as targets for NY to trade up to get.
Not surprised, does anyone really think that Detroit, Charlotte, Golden State, Phoenix, Houston, Indiana, and Sixers would all pass on him? I never really thought he’d fall to us. I think we’re gonna trade up to get him though.
Either:
17 + Douglas + Cash for 10 (Milwaukee)
Landry + Douglas for 7 (Sacramento)
Landry + Douglas for 7 (Sacramento)
can they be that dumb?
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Possibly.
Kind of makes sense for them. They need a SF (Landry) and they’re in an awkward position with Tyreke as a combo guard, so maybe by getting somebody like Douglas to play off the ball but defend PGs they could make it work. Kind of like how Mo Williams played with LeBron.
But even then, we’d probably have to take back Garcia or Udrih to make them do it.
udrih + 7...
would be outstanding… but i agree, seems a little lopsided.
by bucketsncents on Jun 20, 2011 6:33 AM EDT up reply actions
I meant the Knicks
can they be that dumb?
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Tell Knicks FO to throw ice on trading up, the swelling will go down. How be keep the pick
and by 1 or 2 back if possible and at the least pick up 1 G (if it’s not a pure SG then PG) and 1 biggy fry be it Vuce, Tyler and if we go way back mid 2nd we’ll find Benson. I find it hard to believe that any player in this draft is significantly better than the others that we just gotta have em. Someone’s falling and we have enuff holes and or depth issues that we can fill a hole here and there. If we want bargain bench scoring from the C spot, I think Benson can fit the bill while not being a total waste on the defensive end. Tyler and Vuce are big and solid enuff that with Melo and Amar’e wating fools we can live with some mistakes (remember Mozzy?). I grab Marshon (yeah Klay can shoot from most anywhere, but I feel Brooks can score from most anywhere) and offer up better defense. Yeah, he might shoot unconciously at times, but then many people want JRSmith so what’s the prob. I’ll go the cheaper route and maybe pick up a Jenkins or Selby or whatever risk/reward PG is available. Lotta decent role players to complement our core, and sorry, but I’d rather also keep Landry and welcome him to the sixth man role, and unless we’re replacing TD with another PG, and a better one at that from a ball handling point of view, I look forward to another year of Tony off the bench.
Problems with that.
Brooks and Klay have a pretty good chance of going in the top 15. Although there’s a chance that either one falls.
Vucevic has an outside chance of getting in the lottery (especially with Houston) and it’s kind of hard to predict where he’ll go.
And any picks we buy will be most likely in the very late 20s or 2nd rounders. So that limits our options.
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