Vince Carter and other veteran FA's
by moose35 on Jun 20, 2011 8:40 AM EDT
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They won't trade Vince Carter's contract, opting instead to buy him out for $4 million in the coming days.
So Vince Carter will apparently be available as a free agent once the new CBA gets worked out. What does that mean for the Knicks? Should we give him a shot at veteran's minimum?
With the cap situation we're in, it looks like we'll need to sign a lot of players to the veteran's minimum just so we can fill out our bench. Many of you have written that this team needs veteran leadership and the experience that playoff tested vets bring. Players like Michael Redd can be valuable to this Knicks squad if their health, or in Redd's case, their knees hold up. Carter has also been plagued with injuries, but if he focuses (questionable) in the pre-season, stays healthy and adopts the mentality of a 3rd-4th option when on the floor, he could be a valuable pick-up. A good example is Shaq who, even though he was injured for part of the season, still contributed to some wins for the Celtics. Here are some interesting options the Knicks should consider:
Boris Diaw (player option)
Michael Redd
Even taking a flyer on a guy like Oden (restricted FA) is something the Knicks might have to consider. We simply don't have the capspace to sign sure things and hope to win a championship. That's why I'm for drafting somebody like Selby or Biyombo-they could be huge busts, but they can also take us to the next level on team friendly deals, something that a player like Markieff Morris probably won't.
With 9 players on our roster for next season (Turiaf has a player option I think he'll take), we need to fill out our roster with 6 more players. So taking a flyer on some of these players, provided they take veteran's minimum or something close to it, shouldn't be a risk. I hate trying to plan what the offseason will bring when we don't even know how the CBA will work out, but here's how I'd fill out the remaining 6 roster spots if the new CBA has a mid-level exception.
1.) 17th pick (Brooks, Jimmer, Biyombo)
2.) 2nd round pick (Jenkins, Darius Morris, Tyler)
3.) Tayshaun Prince
This would leave us with the frontcourt set for next season. Out of all the veteran SG available for next season, I'd like Tayshaun Prince simply because of his perimiter defense. The other 3 roster spots, which should be used for backcourt depth could be filled with one mid-level exception and 2 one-year, low money deals.
I've just realized that this post is basically moot before the draft. Once we find out how the Knicks want to approach this offseason and where they want to fill their needs, we could start getting a realistic picture of how the roster will end up. But what do you think about the veteran free agents that will be available this offseason? Who, if any of them, should we draft?
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I’d love to get Diaw here and Delonte West seems like the perfect backup PG/SG for us. He’s great defensively and can really run an offense well.
FA is obviously after the draft, but if we could get those 2 I’d not even think twice about trading TD and or Landry for someone like Jimmer or maybe we can think higher then that.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Dude, fuck Delonte West
He did pretty poorly in Boston and he’s just so goddamn annoying. Looks like a barracude with herpes on his mouth, and he’s a total headcase to top it all off
I don't care how dude looks
he wasn’t healthy in Boston but when he played he wasn’t bad.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
The Lebron's mom stories...
thats all we need. He could never play a minute, but give him a reality show on MSG and the contract’s worth it
Thought we didnt have 2nd round pick this year.
I could be mistaken.
No to Vince Carter. That would be a HUGE mistake.
If his knee(s) is fully healed Im intriuged with Michael Redd, although I think he can command more than the knicks can offer.
Watching the Nuggets alot, I love Kenyon Martin. I wouldnt mind his addition.
The player I REALLY want to see in a knick jersey next year is Troy Murphy.
I sprinkle diamonds on everything I eat...1. its the most baller shit ever! 2. it makes my dookie twinkle baby.
I'm guessing you mean fantasy basketball Troy Murphy from a few years ago
And not the actual Troy Murphy
HA!
I figured I’d be alone. I still believe in Troy tho.
I sprinkle diamonds on everything I eat...1. its the most baller shit ever! 2. it makes my dookie twinkle baby.
by GottaLoveMelo on Jun 21, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
No Troy Murphy please
He doesn’t fill any of our gaping holes.
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.
Vince Lombardi
I'd take Murphy
He’s probably pissed that he didn’t play in Boston even when Shaq was hurt. He’d be a good guy at the end of the rotation while whatever young guys we’re going to be bringing in figure out their way.
by superturboultra on Jun 20, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
My top choice is by far Kenyon Martin.
But only on a one year deal (maybe w team option for 2nd). Prince is the only guy on that list (besides David West, but no need for him and he won’t opt out) I’d give a multi-year deal.
Carter is a very questionable fit. He has had so many questions about his motivation and now he’s getting older, can he adapt to being a 3rd/4th option. I’m not gonna lie, if we had a coach who could get the old Vince out and have him be more of a playmaker then I wouldn’t mind him for a minimum deal. But I still put him behind Redd, TMac and Grant Hill on my list. I’d love Delonte, but I really can’t see him leaving Boston unless he gets a big offer. He’s so emotionally connected to that team.
Diaw would also be a great fit playing small ball next to Melo/Amar’e because he’s such a great play-maker, but no way he opts out his deal.
Hopefully we sign both Kenyon Martin and either Hill/McGrady/Redd to add some solid vets to our core. But it’s too hard to predict without any idea of the new CBA.
I'd love Martin
But he’d probably need more than veteran’s minimum to come here. But if we got him I’d be through the roof.
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.
Vince Lombardi
David West is not gonna be within our price range
He’s still an All-Star caliber PF, and also doesn’t fit here at all anyway
West has a player option for more than the MLE
so if he doesn’t pick that up, he’s not about to take the MLE.
Congrats on winning your first NBA championship, Peja Stojakovic!
Yeah, he's a solid PF
I’m sure he’ll find a team willing to pay big bucks for him if they could
My preference
Redd, KThomas, KMart, Prince, and Hill, but Hill wont happen
Vince Carter?? Jonny Flynn??
Have people started hating the Knicks or something?
I think it's b/c we don't have many assets to trade or sign ppl so we have to start checking the "scrap heap"
So these are the kind of players we’re gonna hear about. For us to get better we’re going to have to pull of some small but shrewd moves.
I think Vince could play well on a good team that wants him
And by well I mean about as well as T-Mac last year, which is average and with subpar D
And by well I mean about as well as T-Mac last year, which is average and with subpar D
Well put.
by superturboultra on Jun 20, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
These aren't supposed to be saviours
Rather experienced vets that we can use to fill out our roster. I’m not saying we should fill our team with only these guys, but Tayshaun Prince and Grant Hill would be very good moves at the veteran’s minimum. They’d add cheap quality depth, which we need. 2-3 of those veteran’s wouldn’t be bad.
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.
Vince Lombardi
our saviors have already arrived . . .
and maybe another will come too.
Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate
1st round- biyombo, tyler, jujuan, faried, fredette
2nd round- jenkins, morris, shumpert
FA- prince, mcroberts, hollins, kurt
trade possibility- sessions
fillers- bonzi, crittendon, jerel d-league
I don't know about Sessions
Doesn’t he play sub-par D?
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.
Vince Lombardi
sub par...
to other teams is shut down to the knicks.
i’ve heard mixed reviews. but he’s definitely a facilitator with the ability to lead, and get into the lane. pass first PG, young and quick and has performed when given time. some guys hate him… i’m a fan, as is dan d’antoni
by bucketsncents on Jun 20, 2011 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Sounds good
Definitely better than Flynn actually, but it’d probably take more than TD to get him.
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.
Vince Lombardi
i remember like 2 months as a buck
sessions was averaging 15 points and 15 assists just about, with high shooting %‘s and next to no turnovers. and the bucks were ducks back then. so it’s impressive. got it?
/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \
Sessions
always torches the Knicks.
So does Tyler Hansbrough and Jarett Jack, so take that for what it’s worth..but yea.
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jun 20, 2011 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions
That is the thinking that fucked the Yankees in the 80s if a guy played well against the
Yankees that meant he must have been good. Good Luck winning anything with Jack, Sessions and Hansbrough in the rotation.
by Robert Curre on Jun 21, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
yea
I don’t want him. But I understand why anyone who watches Knicks games may think he’s better than his rep.
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jun 22, 2011 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
I thought Vince was completely washed up
and he probably is, but I just watched a youtube video of his tenure with the Suns, he can still get to the rim and throw it down. For the vet min he wouldn’t be terrible.
Kenyon Martin would be awesome, I know he’s good friends with ‘Melo so maybe that would help. I don’t know if he’s quite around vet min level yet, but maybe.
I feel like Tayshaun is going to demand more money than we can afford, he’s not that old and is probably looking for one last good contract.
Boris Diaw. I dunno, heard he sucks these days, but any excuse to reference that Bill Walton video would be great.
Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate
my favorite players in the league:
Stoudemire
Nash
Gallinari
Carter
Diaw
I’ll take any/all of them on my team. Thanks
Although Carter probably wouldn’t work out too well. His job would be less to dominate the ball and more to take attention away from Melo and Amar’e. Although I still think that he’s capable of dropping 30+ on any given night. He’s basically J.R. Smith at this point in his career, I guess.
Which, at veteran's minimum
Wouldn’t be too shabby
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.
Vince Lombardi
He's JR Smith with better shot selection and an occassional willingness to play defense.
JR wouldn’t be able to tell a good shot from a bad one if it bit him on the ass, and is still too young to apparently understand why coaches want him to play defense.
by Robert Curre on Jun 20, 2011 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
J.R. Smith's shot selection is bad, but it isn't awful
he’s a heat-check kind of player. After he hits a good shot, he tries another, more difficult shot to see if he’s hot. If that goes in, he’s good for 25 points. His game makes sense for him because he can easily carry his team to victory if he’s hot. It just looks bad when he isn’t so hot.
He's a taller Nate. The type of guy who can shoot you into a game and out of a game often
in the same game! Vince has never really been known for taking a bunch of bad shots, in fact his biggest Criticism is he tends not to shoot enough especially in the 4th quarter, but then again if he was brought in here his role would not be to carry the offense in the 4th quarter so that would not be an issue.
by Robert Curre on Jun 20, 2011 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah and I will take a sourpuss who can give you a consistent 15-17 points a night
We went out and got stars boys, that changes things. Your paying two guys 80 million dollars over the next four years you damn sure better be trying to win a championship. Likeable goes out the window, effective is what counts. Roger mason Jr. is a nice guy, but who would you rather have taking shots in the playoffs? him or Vince Carter.
by Robert Curre on Jun 21, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
remember when Vince Carter lit us up after we had just demolished the Suns at Phoenix?
that was annoying because it was like, why do you have to choose this night to try?
Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate
haha yeah I do remember that
Even last year he was able to get in a groove where he puts up extremely difficult shots and they go in and there’s just nothing you can do about it. He still has that superstar range that only he, Kobe, T-Mac, Durant, Pierce, Melo, and Crawford have. They’re basically the only wings in the league that genuinely don’t care how good your defense is.
Here’s the game you’re talking about:
http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=310117018
Jamal Crawford cracks me up
Dude can literally just shred a defense when he gets it going, and he looks like a top 10 scorer in the league…..and then the next night he shoots 3-11
I really would like Anthony Parker
work them connections Shelden
Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate
Parker can do exactly what the Heat thought Mike Miller could do
sign me up for him
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Parker probably gets more than min though. But if we can get him for vets min fine.
by Robert Curre on Jun 20, 2011 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd pay whatever we have left
he’s a perfect fit to start at the 2
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
We are probably only going to have the ability to sign guys for min contracts
Unless the players somehow pull off a big win in the new CBA, because the MLE is one of the things the owners want to put on the chopping block.
by Robert Curre on Jun 20, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
he is old, so that helps the he's-a-vet-min-guy cause
Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate
That...
would be an excellent pick up!
I sprinkle diamonds on everything I eat...1. its the most baller shit ever! 2. it makes my dookie twinkle baby.
by GottaLoveMelo on Jun 21, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Vince Carter can create his own shot and get to the free throw line
two things you can not have enough of in the playoffs. And Vince would probably be willing to sign a vets min deal to get on a playoff team. I am confused by people who say Carter will not work out, I think he would. Carter understands that he is past the point of being the man on a team and his best chance to win a ring is to get on a playoff team and just be a contributor. Carter can still give you a solid 15 points a night, and on occassion still go for 30, but his primary value is his ability to creat space for guys like Melo and Amar’e. Vince is still a guy you have to guard closely even if he does not command double teams anymore, that takes a guy out of the help defense, which opens things up for Amar’e and Carmelo to work. He also is a guy who allows Carmelo and Amar’e to get rest because, for short periods (like a quarter) you can still run your offense through him, which allows you to rest both of those guys if you wish. Basically while I know that Vince would not be a popular signing even for a one year minimum deal, he is an example of a guy who could help more than he hurt in the short term. Never been much of a Vince Carter fan, but I could tolerate him under the right circumstances.
depends on what sort of offense we want to run
if its the slow, old fart offense we were sputtering around with at the end of last season, Carter probably fits cuz that’s what he likes to do.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
He actually fit pretty well into Gentry's offense in PHX so he can play faster if he had too.
But we will play slower this year because we have a 35 year old point guard. That means going against more set defenses which means having guys who can create their own shot wouldn’t hurt. Landry struggled because he can’t create his own shot. Vince still knows how to do that.
by Robert Curre on Jun 20, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
vince 2011...
is a fade away, bad shot jump shooter… yeah, he’ll hit some… but he’s not the shot creator he once was.
by bucketsncents on Jun 20, 2011 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions
He does need to be the shot creator he once was he just needs to be able to creat more shots
than Landry (who can’t create any) or Roger Mason Jr. who not only can’t create any he can’t make the ones created for him! No one is looking for Vince to average 30 a game, but hey if we need a basket I’ll take my chances with Vince attempting a fade away jump shot than Landry Fields holding the ball and pissing on himself cause he is scared to miss, or Mason Jr. Through up another fucking condo on the side of the rim.
by Robert Curre on Jun 21, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
all true...
but i just don’t think his ability to hit a jumper is worth it. his demeanor i think is bad for winning. he’s too indifferent for my liking. i’d rather a lesser talent than bring in a guy like vince who has always coasted. coasting is bad for where we’re trying to go.
by bucketsncents on Jun 21, 2011 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
true, we need guys that defenses have to respect
which is why I’m not completely agaisnt some VC action.
Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate
I can smell Vince Carter's vagina from here
DO NOT WANT
Where are you right now?
I would like to avoid that place.
by superturboultra on Jun 21, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
My...uh..."friend" wants to know.
I want to uh…“avoid” it.
Of course not, you don't want because you rather have Nick Young's vagina.
Goddammit people, what the fuck would Vince be if he was here? Our 3rd maybe 4th option at best. Is he better than the guys presently holding that job? Hell fuck yeah, would that mean we win more games hell fuck yeah. But I understand we want to like the team and bitch about the coach when they lose, and want to know why we are not signing Earl Barron or why the hell some scrub from the fucking D league we have holding a roster spot is not getting burn. I get it! Don’t like it but I get it!
by Robert Curre on Jun 21, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Who said I want Nick Young?
Vince Carter is a chronic, career-long whiner and choke artist, AND he’s now washed up. We don’t need dudes like that filling out our roster.
You are right we do not need guys who can score 15 points a game because
we got so many of them already. Tell that to D’antoni when he was literally begging for someone anyone other that Melo to make a couple fucking shots in game two against the Celtics. Look I can’t stand Vince Carter I think he is an asshole, however that asshole could help us win a few fucking games and could be had cheap. I do not know what you guys are thinking, but unless a miracle happens and we have a MLE, then we are looking at Vets min, who the hell you signing for Vets min? Vince Carter that’s who. And the facts do not prove that Vince is a choke artist only 4 players have more game winning shots than Vince Carter in the last 9 years so he does not choke all the damn time.
by Robert Curre on Jun 21, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
well it's not like he's going to be the guy we look to to score crucial baskets . . .
Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate
So then what's the point?
Is he a good defender? A rugged rebounder? A talented passer? No, he’s an over the hill scorer. Pass.
he can keep the defense honest
and occasionally get really hot, this would help us
Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate
So can Toney Douglas
and Toney’s not an a-hole and actually plays some defense
alright, but I don't know what Toney has to do with Vince Carter
Toney is also arguably our fourth best player which goes to show you how desperate for any talent we are
Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate
meaningless buckets...
when you’re down a lot, or up a lot… the heart of a player is a legitimate factor. it’s not always about skill.
by bucketsncents on Jun 21, 2011 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn't watch Vince in Phoenix
But in Orlando he was the 3rd or 4th guy but he took shots like he was the 1st option and the shot clock started at 5. He could get away with it when he was younger, but if he still throws away possessions and games like that, then hell fuck no.
If his attitude is in line with his talent, then obviously he’d be perfect at the vet minimum. So I guess the question is whether or not he’d know his role here.
by superturboultra on Jun 21, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
you think that shit would fly with amare and melo on the floor? they’d call timeout and say coach get this MF’er off the floor. he’s the 8th best guy on the floor. the reason he was good at one time was he had that #1 aspect. even as an old guy i think he’d be decent at the vets min. could still take a few ppl off the dribble.
Well then let's do it
I mean, I’m sure there will be a lot of guys on the Celtics and Heat that he can take off the dribble at least.
by superturboultra on Jun 21, 2011 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Drooling over guys like Vince Carter and Tayshaun Prince?
What are we, Nets fans?
oh god, here we go
cue the like 6 nets fans who are going to take offense to this statement and remind you about the Jason Kidd golden years
Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate
Hey, I like Jason Kidd
However, there are many Nets fans who still believe Vince Carter is a good NBA player.
I'm down with JKidd
I’m just saying, anytime anyone says anything about the NEts here someone has to pop in and remind us how they went to the finals
Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate
Maybe we should be Net fans because if being objective enough to see how
guys like that could possibly help add depth and help the team win is wrong, then being a Knick fan is becoming problemmatic because it means being a short sighted, superstar nut humper who can’t understand that you need to put some guys who can play around our stars. Knick Fans drool over Sonny Weems! Why because he had one good game against us. Sonny Weems sucks! but we would take him over Vince Carter in a heart beat cause he’s young and that means he’s gonna be a beast in 3 years because he had one very nice looking dunk on youtube! This is what we are becoming as Knick fans!
by Robert Curre on Jun 21, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think its short-sighted to not want Vince Carter
At this point in his career, he’s one-dimensional, inefficient, and motivationally checked-out. And he’s not going to sign for the vet’s minimum.
I lived in Jersey and went to a bunch of Nets games (hey, they were cheap) while Vince was there, and at that time he was probably underrated. The guy could really really score and could single-handedly win you a few games. But those days are long gone and his skills are greatly diminished. I’m staying as far away from him as possible.
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jun 22, 2011 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions
This mighty Vince Carter you speak of
Was on a contending Orlando team and choked. He was about the 3rd option there, sometimes 2nd or even 4th, and couldn’t get it done. He sucked in Phoenix where all he had to do was score and not play defense because they didn’t care. He wasn’t even good then! With a PG who’s probably the best in the league at getting guys easy looks!
I totally agree that people here get stuck on the grass is greener crap, like Sonny Weems, and that there are people who are star humpers and don’t see anything else. But when has Vince Carter proven to be a reliable scorer that he could be the 3rd or 4th option and catapult us to a championship? After, what, 13 years in the league, why will Vince change his ways to becoming a knock down shooter and a reliable defender instead of a ball-stopper who likes to take guys off the dribble and then shoot fade away jump shots?
Of course, this is all under the assumption that he wants to play for the vet.’s min. for a team that will be competitive, no doubt, but not that close to competing for a championship
Same
Especially considering he’d be our what, like 4th or 5th option on offense. Perfect role for him this stage of his career. Dude’s still a good ball-handler and passer too.
He and Fields would make a nice combo at the 2/3 and T-Mac could even play some PG for stretches
He's a bigger asshole than Vince Carter. But hey if we can get him do it!
by Robert Curre on Jun 21, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Is he?
I always though Vince was assholier. But hey, maybe we can get them both and have a reunion of the team that we won our last playoff game against!
You have rendered my sarcasm detector ineffective.
by superturboultra on Jun 21, 2011 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
because I'm not being sarcastic
I love VC. He’s a nice guy that has been victimized not by the media, but by the fans, for no true reason.
yeah I don't know when Vince acted like an asshole
his only sin seems to be that he doesn’t care as much about basketball as we would like him to, a trait that fans hate but really isn’t that much of a knock against his personality
Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate
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