The Almost Knicks
by gbaked on Jan 10, 2012 4:29 PM EST
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PrintAs I watch highlights of Ricky Rubio doing all we dreamed he would do in another uniform, I just went back to think about all the guys we almost drafted the past couple years... just to have them be whisked away just before we can get our hands on them.
I dont watch college ball other then some tourney games... so for me to know about a player, it means that the knicks are very much thinking about drafting them
2011: too soon to tell anything
2010: was there even a draft this year? I dont remember.
2009: Knicks were targeting Rubio and Curry and they got picked right before our picks. Both of which are now awesome.
2008: aside from Gallo we were also targeting Westbrook. Who is pretty awesome.
There isnt much of a point to this. Other then to give some credit to Donnie Walsh and Co for really picking it in the drafts they were in. They swung and missed on Hill... but the rest have all worked out and if they had gotten who they really wanted in some of those others (none of which were players that were expected to be stars. they all were thought to still be around when the knicks picked).
I wish we had gotten rubio.
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I think 2011 it'll be the teams that drafted before us that will be tickling our dicks
Shump’s the real deal. Just wait till he stretches out that injury and plays with only one ball out instead of to so as to conserve balls.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Balkman at #20
But these days you could say that Lowry at #24 is even better. At least Balkman at #20 is better than Morrison at #3 or Shelden Williams at #5.
I feel bad for Morrison
read he was interested in a comeback, wish him the best in that regard
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
my take
2008- Got Gallo, who is nearly as good as Carmelo at a fraction of the price
2009- Let’s forget about this one. It was clearly bad from the start
2010- Landry was great value in the second round
2011- Shumpert looks like a steal
So pretty good drafting, but the trading has been as bad as possible. The only good signing was Tyson Chandler, and it required amnestying Billups because they were too stupid a few months earlier.
Billups was not the right kind of point guard to begin with and I love chauncey. He just wasn’t right for the team and he is older at this point. As for Galo being nearly as good as Melo, i am not even gonna comment on that, and I say this as someone who loves Galo. I guess it is true of what they say about Canadians. Basketball and Canada just don’t go well together.
If we'd have not picked Chanunceys option up
then we’d have had to pay $4m this year wouldnt we? Therefore we’d have struggled to pick up Chandler.
Also, I love Gallo, and would have him back in a heart beat, but he isnt nearly as good as Melo.
3.7 million
So avoid paying some other guys. Or don’t trade for Billups and Melo. As I said, I don’t like the trade, but the drafting was good.
Sure, Melo is more “talented” but he contributes as much to winning as Gallo. You probably didn’t notice but he’s younger and improved each year. He’s better now than when he was on the Knicks. I don’t know why David Lee has regressed.
Gallo’s PER this year is 19.4 which is the highest it’s been since he entered the league. It’s comparable to Melo’s third worst PER. Gallo is improving and is a good player but to say he somehow contributes as much as melo is a huge exaggeration, especially since his first few years he was simply average.
word
let’s not get carried away here
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jan 11, 2012 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
if you looked at win shared he contributes as much right now
PER overrates high usage guys like Carmelo. Plus if an improving Gallinari is equal to Melo’s third worst season, then next season he’s an average Melo season. For much cheaper.
Gallo is only almost as good as Melo if David Lee is almost as good as Amar'e
There’s no comparison.
I love Gallo, but isn’t it time to let him go?
Do the Shumpty Shump, come on and do the Shumpty Shump
yes
yes it is
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jan 11, 2012 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
pretty much sews it up for me
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
sewn up
is a great look for you
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jan 11, 2012 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
you'd like that wouldn't ya
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Hahahaha
I do miss him, but he is gone
I do believe we’ll get either him or wilson chandler back here eventually
Do the Shumpty Shump, come on and do the Shumpty Shump
I have hopes for both or either
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
i think chandler is more likely
gallo is somewhat repetitive with melo here. having both would be a waste of one of them.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
it would still be awesome though
and agree. Picking him up in late February would be icing
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
Will yes...
gallo…nahhh….I’m content watching him blow uncontested (game on the line) layups for another team…
You just got Tysoned!!!!!!
well
the point was, that most of the players we were looking at during draft time, turned out to be top players out of the draft.
Most of these guys were not locks. Westbrook was high, but many thought he would fall to us. And Curry was a low draft pick till the knicks got involved.
except for Hill, I dont remember any of the guys the knicks were high on not panning out.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
this goes to show that these “experts” don’t always know what the hell they are talking about. Shump was being booed when the knicks chose him and people were saying faried but now they are quiet. Fields was found in the second round last year yet was more useful than all those first rounders. I say Donnie found a diamond in Shumpert and I am happy we got him. i wouldn’t trade him for the first pick(irving). The only draft where Donnie messed up was when he got Jordan Hill and passed up on Jennings, but then again, many other teams passed him up as well. The critics and “experts” had Shump ranked as a late first or even second round pick at some point and a lot of his criticism was based on his poor shooting percentage but those same people don’t put things in context.
I hate when people just look at stats and then cast criticism. His shooting could easily be corrected because it was more based on poor shot selection. When put in a right situation, he shoots better and we can see that in New York so far. I seen some of Rubio in europe so I already knew he had talent and he isn’t surprising me. It be nice if we could have had him but that’s history.
Lawson might be one of the more underrated PGs
He’s nasty. And yeah, fuck Brandon Jennings.
That 2009 draft was loaded with quality PGs. Jrue Holiday, Darren Collison, Jeff Teague, Eric Maynor….
Of course we got DWTDD so that kind of made up for the Hill signing, in a way
KNICKS NOW
http://nyknicksnow.blogspot.com/ - check it out!
Rubio, Lawson are the future all-star candidates
Teague and Holiday are a step below. TD, come on. Just our latest Nate Robinson.
I don't think Lawson ever makes an allstar game
Too many guys ahead of him
Even Rubio may struggle to make one for years.
Do the Shumpty Shump, come on and do the Shumpty Shump
Paul, Williams, Rose, Rondo
possibly Lowry
"Rooting for the Yankees is like rooting for Steve Jobs to win the lotto." - Chris Rock
Patrick Ewing - The NBA's all-time leader in rushing yards
Id take Lowry over Lawson already. And at least Kyle is allowed on rollercoasters.
But you can also add Stephen Curry, Tony Parker, Mike Conley
Lowry is one inch taller
parker and Conley aren’t better. Curry plays no D but might be ahead of Lawson and Rubio in popularity due to points. Paul if he’s still healthy. But the others are Eastern Conference.
well... to be fair
if you talking bout the all star game in a few years…
rose and rondo will be playing for the east. Paul maybe, but his knees suggest he may only have a few years left…
lowry… idk, about the same par as ty i guess. i dont know either of them that well.
i think rubio is def an option. and westbrook.
williams, if he goes to the lakers or a west team… sure.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
SHUMP!!!!!!!!
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
Jordan Hill is actually starting to play decent ball
So actualy Donnie may not have been wrong about the Kid just premature. Hill admittedly was a reach, but remember the Knicks were anticipating losing David Lee who was coming off his best year as a pro, so they needed a big to replace him. At worst he looks like he would have been a solid back up for Amare as he is averaging 5.8 pts 6.2 rebounds on 54% shooting coming off the bench for Houston. Which is better than Jorts though the two play the same mins.
by Robert Curre on Jan 11, 2012 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
Well Jorts wasn't a lottery pick for a reason
Jordan Hill shouldn’t have been either. “Serviceable back-up PF” is a waste of a pick in the middle of the lottery
hey it happens. Marcus Camby was one of the biggest Busts of all time and people would
Have loved to have him here. After the draft who really gives a shit where a guy was drafted it is whether he helps a team win. Otherwise the shitting on Landry Fields would not exist or Toney Douglas. Douglas was picked 29th and Fields 39th Why the numb nuts around here expect them to play like lottery picks doesn’t make sense.
by Robert Curre on Jan 11, 2012 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
After the draft who really gives a shit where a guy was drafted it is whether he helps a team win.
It matters if you passed up other, better players in order to burn a lotto pick on a back-up PF. With guys like Landry and Toney any production they give you is gravy, ’cause nobody can reasonably expect a 2nd round pick to be a rotation player. I think the shitting on them is because they did play like rotation players for a good while and right now are are playing like, well… second round picks.
You miss the point but then I never really expected you to.
My point is, all you can go buy is what the guy did in a league with inferior talent to the NBA and try to project what he will do in the league. Camby, Jeffries, And Jordan Hill were all very good college players. Jeffries was runner up in the national player of the year voting as a sophmore, Camby was considered can’t miss, and Hill was considered the 2nd best big in the draft behind Griffin. You forget the guy Averaged 18 points and 10 rebounds a game at Arizona. Once these guys don’t live up to expectations then what. Marcus Camby was the 3rd or 4th worst draft pick in the last 25 years. But he figured out how to be a productive role player in the league. Coaches came to value him because he could rebound and block shots which helped them win games. Did it really matter that he never should have been taken with the 2nd pick in the draft given what he actually turned into he should have been taken in the back 5 picks in the first round not the top 5.
by Robert Curre on Jan 12, 2012 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
yeah
camby was pretty awesome when drafted
In his rookie season, he made the NBA All-Rookie First Team, averaging 14.8 points, 6.3 rebounds, and 2.1 blocks per game. In the following season, Camby led the league in blocked shots with 3.7 per game.
I get what RC is sayin, but Camby was the wrong choice of an example.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
at very worst he was the 5th best in the draft
and was the best player (in the playoffs) on the knicks 1999 team that made it to the finals
i mean
in hindsight, there are other players that would have been better picks.
most notably, kobe and nash.
but a bust is a bit harsh. He was def one of the better players drafted. That may make him a poor pick that high, but not a bust…
I noticed while looking that up that Camby has never made an all-star team? That is surprising. you think he would have made it once.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Kobe probably would not have gone to Toronto though
Camby spent most of his career behind Ewing, Yao, or Shaq. Not many centers made it to All-Star games.
He was drafted to be a superstar and ended up a serviceable role player. That equals bust.
For what he ended up being able to contribute, he should have not been a 2nd pick! So yes he was a bust. By the same token that Jordan Hill is a Bust. Hill was taken 8th you folks expect that player to be at least a starter not a serviceable role player off the bench. It cuts both ways folks. Jordan Hill= Bust
Marcus Camby = Bust!!!!!!
by Robert Curre on Jan 17, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
Secondly Flossy how long is a good pick a good pick to be justified.
Mike Bibby was the 2nd player picked in the draft. And for the first 5 or 6 years of his career he looked worth it. Does it matter that he was the 2nd pick now? Does it matter that Brandon Knight was picked 5th and Shumpert 17th and Shumpert has slightly better Offensive numbers and is a much better defender? In the long run, no. Once the games start all that matters is how a guy helps his team win. Really with the exception of Kyrie Irving the other point guards taken ahead of Shumpert have not proven to be better players in terms of their production. Does that mean that all those GMs who took other guards over Shumpert screwed the pooch? NAW Knight , Fredette and Walker for example all show signs that they are going to be good players. And who knows 5 years from now who the better players will be. Jordan Hill has gotten better every season. He is better this year than last year. Who is to say that 2 years from now the guy isn’t a 20 and 10 player?
by Robert Curre on Jan 12, 2012 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
but i think when evaluating a draft pick
you take all that into account.
if hill keeps progressing and becomes a solid player, then thats great. but he was drafted ahead of guys that could help the team that drafted him sooner and in better ways. so it was a bad pick.
you look back and have to account what team drafted him and why they did so.
I mean, if hill takes another 2 years to really develop, was he a good pick for the knicks? NO! they needed immediate production so the player could either help the team when drafted or become a good trade chip. so he was a bad pick for the knicks at 8, even if he would have been a great pick for whoever had 9.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
In retrospect, we should have traded Wilson Chandler for the fifth pick in the draft
That was originally the wizards pick, We inquired about it, they asked for wilson chandler, we said no.
I was very in favor of saying no at the time. Of course, I don’t think anyone thought Rubio would drop to 5.
Think about how different 2010 is when we have a legit phenom to pitch.
Oh well, c’est lavie. Fun what if though.
Do the Shumpty Shump, come on and do the Shumpty Shump
you forgot the time we didn't draft ron artest
either you score in the draft or you don’t, no sense in dwelling on it. you’re only as good as your last game anyway.
/// aighttho.com \\\/// twitter.com/aighttho \\\
i was just looking at the Dons drafts.
that one hurt though. First draft I ever watched, and one of the first times i remember getting visibly upset at the outcome of a sport (non field) thing.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Yea, we have a long history of screwing up the draft
We’ve tended to draft better at the end of the first round
Shump’s a godsend, though
Do the Shumpty Shump, come on and do the Shumpty Shump
I saw "draft better"
as “draft beer” and now I want one.
"Rooting for the Yankees is like rooting for Steve Jobs to win the lotto." - Chris Rock
Patrick Ewing - The NBA's all-time leader in rushing yards
just sayin... rubio last night against d. rose...
was awesome. the kid has “it”… whatever “it” is. he exemplifies floor leader, pace setter, PG and coach on the court.
and he’s exactly what we would love to have right now.
If the Knicks had gotten Rubio, he would have been traded for Melo.
Also I wouldn’t write off Jordan Hill. He’s the starting center for the Rockets, playing decently. He was never projected to be a star in the first place. Hes still 24. He still has time to surprise and be a 15 and 10 guy.
No he wouldn't have
He would have been a cornerstone to build our franchise around.
Not to mention if we have Rubio, it changes the 2010 offseason drastically. We’re a much more appealing location
If 2010 summer works out the same, then it’s (A) important to remember that the person we drafted that draft, Jordan Hill, was already gone by then so it’s not as if anyone in the trade needs replacing, just remove the Felton-Chauncey swap and (B) far more likely that we get the deal for Melo done that summer, since we’d likely go to Denver and say you can have anyone not names Amar’e and Rubio.
Do the Shumpty Shump, come on and do the Shumpty Shump
uhh..
the Felton-Chauncey swap and (B) far more likely that we get the deal for Melo done that summer, since we’d likely go to Denver and say you can have anyone not names Amar’e and Rubio.
..what you are saying clearly contradicts the facts of the Melo trade. If Felton wasn’t necessary, why did the Knicks include him? Heres a hint: cause Denver demanded it. So if you replace Rubio with Felton and exclude the former from all trades, who else besides, chandler, gallinari, mozgov, and anthony randolph would have the Knicks given up to induce Denver to trade Melo to the Knicks and not the Nets? Furthermore the only reason Jordan Hill was dealt was to provide the rockets with an incentive to swallow Jared Jeffries’s contract which thus enabled the Knicks to sign Stat, Felton and Mozgov for about 25 million combined in the summer of 2010. If the Knicks had Rubio they wouldnt have traded him, would not have dumped Jeffries on the Rockets, and would not have been able to sign Felton and Mozgov, 2 melo pieces. Either way its lose lose, as far keeping Rubio.
I don't watch Rockets games and NEITHER DO YOU. Hill went from being glued to the bench to playing 20 a night as the STARTING center...
..so I don’t know what you mean by “not really” a starting center. Im basing my opinion on Kevin McHale’s validation of J.H as a starter and Dalembert coming off the bench – somebody the Knicks were willing to sign for 5 million this past offseason before the Chandler acquisition.
ummm Dalembert needed to get into shape and learn the System he starts now over hill
But Hill Did come off the bench last night and put up 12 and 12!
by Robert Curre on Jan 11, 2012 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
wow.
just… wow.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
i try not to bother anymore
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jan 11, 2012 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
Jorts did it in a Start playing over 30 mins.
Jordan in 18 off the bench so he did more.
by Robert Curre on Jan 11, 2012 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
Yes he is averaging a whole 3 mins more a game than last year.
by Robert Curre on Jan 11, 2012 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
Listen, this whole conversation about Jordan Hill started because the author of the fanpost said Dolan "swinged and missed" with the HIll pick.
My refutation is 1)Too early to say that 2)The Hill trade set off a series of transactions that led to the Melo acquistion. And you aint winning a championship if Stoudemire is your best player.
well
i like hill, and i still think it was a swing and a miss. In hindsight, getting lawson or a group of other players would have been a much better option.
the point of the post was that don (not dolan) was pretty awesome at picking players. all the guys that were reported interested in, some of which had question marks, turned into pretty awesome players and for the most part were considered the better picks in the draft.
was just makin conversation.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
the only player that would have fit the knicks well after Hill was Jrue Holiday.
Just not a big fan of the midget point guard unless your allen iverson or John stockton, 2 pretty incredibly rare players.
fair enough
donnie was the shit.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
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