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Around SBN: Bob Sapp Denies Throwing Fights

Grizzlies 94, Knicks 83: "OK, I think I am doing other things now."

Can't blame gbaked for bailing on this one. As he expressed in the game thread, tonight's Knicks-Grizzlies game was about as repellent as they come. The game had pretty much zero merit. The Knicks' defense wasn't bad, but they allowed too many open jumpers, gave too many fouls and-- thanks in large part to sloppy offense-- let the Grizzlies get out in transition far too often.

Really, that often was the story of the night. Shit was unseemly. Amar'e Stoudemire played just 20 minutes because of foul trouble and had his usual troubles scoring unassisted when he did get to spin. Carmelo Anthony hit some shots in isolation despite hurting his wrist early, then sprained his ankle early in the third and had to leave the game (he's day-to-day).

And then there was Iman Shumpert. Good lord. His shot selection was a bit scary in preseason and in his game, but since returning from injury, he'd done a pretty good job of picking his spots. That was not the case tonight. Not even remotely. Shump shot and shot and shot, and the shots somehow got worse over time. Early on, he missed good looks from outside, and for whatever reason, his response was to attempt lower-quality shots earlier in the shot clock. It was horrifying. He was 3-15 in the first half and finished 5-20 on the night, adding 6 turnovers just to rub it in. Shump did have four steals, though he seemed a trifle jumpy on defense and often let Mike Conley get free by overplaying him. Anyway, he's a rookie, I still love him, and he's already owned up to his errors, but...damn. Shumpert's impatience and jumperrhea were a big reason the Knicks fell behind early and eventually lost the game.

That's really it. Oh, and Bill Walker shot well. Forgot that one. Good job, Bill. And Renaldo Balkman did a good job trying to dunk the ball every time he got it, no matter where he was standing. Fouling people, too. Excellent work. Renaldo Balkman played, by the way.

I'm gonna go ahead and forget this one happened, though I hope it was some sort of learning experience for the Knicks. Oklahoma City's up next on the schedule. Whether Melo's out or not (not sure what the prognosis is for his ankle yet), that one could get pretty rough.

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This made me chuckle:

“And Renaldo Balkman did a good job trying to dunk the ball every time he got it, no matter where he was standing.”

Hard loss to swallow. Got damn.

KnicksVision.com: Your source for everything Knicks

by RandaNYK on Jan 13, 2012 12:07 AM EST reply actions  

wait.

i’m calling you out on this. Growing Pains is corny

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 13, 2012 5:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I said he deserves a chance to start to see what hes made of. Seems pretty silly to ridicule me for that when the Knicks coaching staff felt he could have been competent in that capacity by amnestying Billups to acquire Chandler.

But hey since we are the topic of “basketball knowledge,” you wrote a 2,000 word fanpost about why the Knicks should get Josh Selby with the 17th pick in the first round. He ended up getting drafted 49th and last week he got arrested for marijuana charges. All Hail to Chief Flossy!

by bababooey2 on Jan 13, 2012 9:29 PM EST up reply actions  

On the bright side re:Shump

3-15 in the first half, 2-5 in the second, willing to admit his mistakes. He’s confident but he’s also coachable and can recognize when he fucks up. I hope Melo’s good for OKC, wanna see the real Knicks show up for that game

by SweatbandProliferation on Jan 13, 2012 12:10 AM EST reply actions  

Yup.

It was an appalling performance, but I do believe that he won’t be repeating it again anytime soon. He was obviously frustrated, and, in the 3rd quarter, humiliated.

I agree that he’s a coachable player — confident, but not full of himself. I just wonder why D’Antoni didn’t hold him accountable earlier on in the game when it could’ve still made a difference. While it doesn’t make sense for a rookie PG to want to shoot 15 shots in a half, it REALLY doesn’t make sense for the coach to allow him to try.

by sisterray24 on Jan 13, 2012 11:40 AM EST up reply actions  

well
Renaldo Balkman played, by the way

that used to be a merit in itself. my brother shut this off in the 3rd. shump had a terrible game, but you’re going to get that from rookies with a very short offseason. he’ll get more consistent with time. i just don’t understand why he has to shoot the ball so many damn times. and as said above, he finaly stopped shooting in the 2nd. just hope mello is ok

"it's not easy being green"-kermit the frog
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by rexthejet on Jan 13, 2012 12:11 AM EST reply actions  

Hahaha

“douchenozzle” did you come up with that one yourself?

Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.

by CasanovaWong on Jan 13, 2012 12:21 AM EST up reply actions  

This user has been banned.

Not for this comment— I’m definitely a douchenozzle— but for previous comments that were flagged by members of the community. Remember to be kind to one another and not make hateful remarks.

by Seth on Jan 13, 2012 12:29 AM EST up reply actions  

I was the one who wrote "rarest of happenstances" in the recap of last game.

Which would explain why he quoted “bro.” He’s right, I do write like a douchenozzle. But now I know that, and can use it to grow.

End of conversation about that.

by Osborn on Jan 13, 2012 12:59 AM EST up reply actions  

oddly enough

3 of the last 5 Pulitzer Prize winners also write like a douche-nozzle.

so you have that going for you.

(I also want to point out, that when i originally typed in douchenozzle, it didnt have the “-”. That was added in by spellcheck.)

I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."

by gbaked on Jan 13, 2012 9:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Word. Makes me chuckle everytime

And I am not a chuckler

Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!

by wilddre22 on Jan 13, 2012 3:42 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

I loled.

"It was one of those good, deep sleeps; you know, the ones where you wake up and a stream of drool is steadily racing down your shirt? Yes, that kind of sleep." -Landry Fields

by Thelonious Dunk on Jan 13, 2012 12:55 AM EST up reply actions  

I think Novak...

Kicked ass. Was it just me?

by robk on Jan 13, 2012 12:20 AM EST reply actions  

When nobody is hitting their shots

it might be a good time to bring in your 3 point specialist

by SweatbandProliferation on Jan 13, 2012 12:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Seriously...

We were down 11 with 3 minutes left. Just put Novak, Jorts, Bill Walker, Bibby, and Lin in and have them hoist 3’s. Like a hail Mary. WTF not???

by robk on Jan 13, 2012 12:28 AM EST up reply actions  

he is a really great shooter

it’s too bad we’re not playing in a style where we can really capitalize on him.

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 13, 2012 12:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Honestly

Novak might not be great, but he also has not had a single outing this year where I’ve thought “damn, that guy shouldn’t get any burn.” He always does his job, plays within himself, and minimizes his mistakes.

by Joamiq on Jan 13, 2012 12:53 AM EST up reply actions  

I kinda think this team plays up and down to the competition..

so maybe they’ll show up on Saturday?! I can only hope, right???

by robk on Jan 13, 2012 12:23 AM EST reply actions  

Memphis is mediocre at best without Zach...

So they weren’t “up” for this one. That’s the excuse I’m using…

by robk on Jan 13, 2012 12:33 AM EST up reply actions  

i guess ur right on that

although i like their team i think theyll stay fine till he comes back and then make playoffs again, theyre definitely better than the teams we’ve been playin down to tho (toronto charlotte)

by abe88 on Jan 13, 2012 12:34 AM EST up reply actions  

It's inexcusable...

they HAVE to win the games they are “supposed” to win if we want anything but a repeat of last season or worse.

by robk on Jan 13, 2012 12:41 AM EST up reply actions  

AGREED

we need a distributing PG real bad

by abe88 on Jan 13, 2012 12:46 AM EST up reply actions  

I think Baron Davis in a wheelchair

would improve this team’s offense right now.

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 13, 2012 10:07 AM EST up reply actions  

i dunno

i think memphis could be top 5 in the league with or without randolph. obviously he makes them better. but thats just a good team no matter how you slice it.

/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \

by stingy d on Jan 13, 2012 12:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Losing Randolph

doesn’t hurt them much defensively, and that’s a big part of their success. This is a team that kicked ass in the playoffs last year, beating San Antonio, almost beating OKC. They don’t become instantly mediocre by losing one guy, no matter who he is.

That said, the Knicks did play like doo-doo.

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 13, 2012 10:07 AM EST up reply actions  

I guess no one ever reads my posts. The scouting report on Shumpert prior to the draft was that he can’t shoot, not a 2 guard, and though he played point last season in college, he is not a point guard. He’s a chucker, a volume shooter.
Ultimately, Shumpert is an off the bench, high energy, defense player.

TNT, down here in Fort myers, FL absolutely ridiculed Shumpert & Douglas. Basically, what I’ve said since before the season started- point guards pass the ball and distribute the ball to their team mates.

TNT made special mention of Shumpert bringing the ball up court 1 on 5 and still shooting 3s.

TNT also said, what I’ve been saying all season long, is that guys on the Knicks are taking terrible shots because
the one time they get to touch the ball may be the last time because guys like Melo, Stoudemare, Shumpert, &
Douglas are ball hogs.

Fileds got 5 shots, the most he’s had in a month, and made 3 of them. Both Fields and Chandler suffer on the
court because they are both TEAM players and pass the ball.

by frankiec on Jan 13, 2012 12:32 AM EST reply actions  

If you can’t shoot 40% from the field, you shouldn’t be starting in the NBA.

by frankiec on Jan 13, 2012 12:40 AM EST up reply actions  

41.2 FG%

BAM. Numbers! Now you can stop complaining about the inconsistencies of a rookie who has played 6 games.

by erniesto on Jan 13, 2012 12:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Thank you

The guy tries to make an argument off a microscopic sample size that doesn’t even support his argument anyway

by Joamiq on Jan 13, 2012 12:54 AM EST up reply actions  

I guess no one ever reads his posts.

Sorry to sound inflammatory, frankiec, but the joke was right there. I mean no harm.

by Osborn on Jan 13, 2012 1:02 AM EST up reply actions  

David Lee + ZBo = Championship.

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Jan 13, 2012 8:42 AM EST up reply actions  

All Stars!

Nate too!

A void? I see no void!

by gunsbound on Jan 13, 2012 11:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Sad face

Frankie, we are all guilty of being irrationally exuberant around here – so what? Yes, maybe we were all brought down to earth a bit last night, because it’s true, Shump isn’t much of a pass first point guard and has a penchant for chucking.

But really, are picks 18-25 doing all that much better? Shump is a rook, committed to playing D and thrust into a starting point guard role in the NBA. Last night was not some kind of conclusive proof that the Knicks made some kind of horribly deficient draft pick.

And it certainly wasn’t an indication that people don’t read your posts. People aren’t going to always agree with you, and if they don’t agree with you, it doesn’t mean they don’t respect you. Personally I just don’t want to spend my life being pessimistic and fatalistic about everything. That doesn’t mean I don’t read your posts.

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 13, 2012 10:15 AM EST up reply actions  

+1

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Jan 13, 2012 3:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Shumpert played point last year, didn’t do a great job, but saw point guard as a future option,
since he is not a shooter.

Knicks coach should look at Shumpert and say- this guy can run, play defense, bring up the ball,
and pass at an NBA level-WITH EXPERIENCE. He should FOCUS on what Shumpert CAN DO
and play him to those strengths. The minute Shumpert starts acting like a wild man out there
he should take him out. Dantoni should have done the same thing with Douglas who came
out of college a great defender, poor shooter, and as small a 2 guard you will ever find. Pounding
a square peg in a round hole doesn’t work.

by frankiec on Jan 13, 2012 1:12 PM EST up reply actions  

And I am sick and tired hearing about Melo wining about his hang nail, head aches caused by stock
market downturns, arthritis in his shooting shoulder (so don’t shoot so much), etc., etc.

Furthermore, Stoudemare is just never going to be as good as David Lee was for New York. I have since moved on and now firmly believe that EVEN Zach Randolph when he was with New York and playing with David Lee was a better player than Amare.

by frankiec on Jan 13, 2012 12:38 AM EST reply actions  

wow thats a little overboard on both of em

i guess u havent seen amare last year (and also the rest of his career) granted hes off to a bad start but worse than d lee’s so untrue….. and idk where u get melo’s whining about spraining ur ankle and wrist in the same game isnt exactly a hang nail problem

by abe88 on Jan 13, 2012 12:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Nah

There’s only one Dizzy. He’s consistently nutty and positive in his own way!

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 13, 2012 10:17 AM EST up reply actions  

LOL Melo is injured so he shouldn't be nhappy about it?

and there we go another David Lee handjob…right on cue. You realize no one on any site you visit likes you right?

by lololol on Jan 13, 2012 4:04 AM EST up reply actions  

haha!

your “shit was unseemly” counter is up to about 7.

/// aighttho.com \\\/// twitter.com/aighttho \\\

by stingy d on Jan 13, 2012 12:44 AM EST reply actions  

i still don't like what i see with the front court chemistry

i just don’t think it’s to be had . bad fit. the odd man out is amare unfortunately. i don’t know if this front office would seriously consider trading him, but it might be the move to make.

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 13, 2012 12:52 AM EST reply actions  

i can't wait!

because stat and chandler are really great finishers, and doofy creators.

/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \

by stingy d on Jan 13, 2012 12:55 AM EST up reply actions  

to some extent yes . . .

but amare and carmelo are not a natural fit. carmelo is a post player. almost strictly half court. amare you want to keep on the move. you don’t want a face-up, pick and roll four next to carmelo. you want dirk nowitzki ideally, and then you go after guys like bargnani and scola.

i think amare will probably play better with a real pg on the floor, but i don’t think the dynamic, championship chemistry is to be had with these two. and there are a lot of other power forwards i’d rather see play in the half court than amare.

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 13, 2012 12:56 AM EST up reply actions  

did you watch any of the usa games

with d’antoni as coach, and lebron, wade, chris paul, jason kidd and all them fools?

melo was the best player on the floor.

/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \

by stingy d on Jan 13, 2012 12:58 AM EST up reply actions  

i mean...

d’antoni coached. not THE coach. but still. melo annihilated teams, and they played uptempo, and he was deadly when he had a good point guard to direct traffic.

/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \

by stingy d on Jan 13, 2012 12:59 AM EST up reply actions  

oh yeah

that was a bit different though. that was euroball and those teams were incredibly deep. for us i think the best way to maximize his tools is to put him in some sort of half court post system. unless we had gotten chris paul or something.

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 13, 2012 1:02 AM EST up reply actions  

yea maybe so

but, this coming from a guy who was never a big melo fan: he was the best player on the floor. and he never dominated the ball. he just has an incredible feel for the game. if he is in a position where he doesn’t have to go in to take-over mode, he will be way better than he currently is.

/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \

by stingy d on Jan 13, 2012 1:08 AM EST up reply actions  

AND

a real floor general will make that possible, and i think baron davis has the chops.

/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \

by stingy d on Jan 13, 2012 1:09 AM EST up reply actions  

i am a big, big carmelo fan you know

i am just saying what i think would be the player who could make his game shine. you want an outside/inside (not to be confused with a stretch) power forward. you want someone carmelo can play off of. carmelo is very versatile, so he can adjust and make it work with a lot of players, but ideally you want him playing in the post with good spacing and players who can feed off of the defensive attention he draws.

but what you’d really want is a carmelo, dirk pairing. this is the ideal that would never happen. that would be how carmelo and dirk would really shine. carmelo would mostly play in the post and dirk would mostly play in the mid range perimeter, but they could switch off. both gifted passers who draw a ton of defensive attention wherever they are. bargnani kind of approximates that.

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 13, 2012 1:19 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't get it

Usually you hear that Melo is the wrong fit for Amare’s game. Can you elaborate a bit more on why Amare is the wrong fit for Melo’s game? Surely you agree that Amare can feed off of the defensive attention Melo draws.

Why wouldn’t you want a pick-and-roller playing next to Melo? It seems like it could be a great fit, if you have a decent PG running the pick-and-roll.

Until then, I’d really like to see the offense run through Melo, with Stoudemire and Shump running off-ball pick-and-rolls. If that game can be made to work, it’d take 5 guys to defend those 3, leaving Fields open on the wing and Chandler open under the basket. That’d be the making of some good offense.

by sisterray24 on Jan 13, 2012 4:18 PM EST up reply actions  

how has amare been feeding off of the defensive attention carmelo draws?

he hasn’t. mike tries to put him on the perimeter shooting three pointers because at least he can get those off (and with the added muscle, his shot is better from outside than from mid range now) but that’s obviously a waste of amare’s talents. if amare’s jumper were going in then maybe he’d be feasting off of carmelo, but that hasn’t been the case.

the biggest problem is really tyson who gets in the way in the paint with his absolute lack of range.

i think we should run more motion to get amare on the move when carmelo’s isolating and make it imperative that carmelo looks to hit him. that and amare needs to get himself a post game.

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 13, 2012 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

ok

Sure. The Knicks haven’t been using Amare well since Melo came on board. We can agree on that. And having Chandler in the paint certainly isn’t helping Amare’s game either.

But I thought you were making a stronger claim than that — that Amare is just the wrong kind of player to have on the court at the same time as Melo, because he’s a pick-and-roller and that’s a bad match for Melo’s game.

So, again, why wouldn’t you want a pick-and-roller playing next to Melo?

by sisterray24 on Jan 13, 2012 6:44 PM EST up reply actions  

because ideally carmelo plays in a different system

he is not really meant for d’antoni ball. yes, he can kind of play faux point guard. yes, he can be a scorer on the wing. but you want him to be playing half court, post based offense. not pick and roll system. and amare you definitely want to play in pick and roll system.

but he will probably move to something like the joe johnson in phoenix role once baron returns. we’ll see how that works. it’s not perfect, but it’s not too bad.

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 14, 2012 2:41 AM EST up reply actions  

my memory is a bit foggy, but yes i watched the olympics

what do you mean to say though? i’m confused

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 13, 2012 12:59 AM EST up reply actions  

melo is not a half court player

he can just play, he’s got all the tools.

/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \

by stingy d on Jan 13, 2012 1:00 AM EST up reply actions  

groupthink?

where is the groupthink? obviously carmelo is versatile.

but what you want is a way to get him playing in the post where he can feed off his teammates and his teammates can feed off him. that’s what you want. he can do other things and make it work because he is versatile, but that’s not ideal. if you want him playing at the level where he can lead you to a championship, you want him to get the most out of his post game because that’s where he’s most deadly.

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 13, 2012 2:56 AM EST up reply actions  

And what happens when Davis gets injured again?

Knicks desperately need a trade. And nobody is taking Amare at value — so forget it.

by erniesto on Jan 13, 2012 1:02 AM EST up reply actions  

i don't think we could get dwight, bosh, aldridge, etc.

maybe, maybe, maybe the next tier. maybe pau or luis because they’re in their thirties. maybe bargnani because he is known as something of a bust.

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 13, 2012 1:04 AM EST up reply actions  

but i don't know how toxic amare's contract is considered by gm's

it’s large and at least partially uninsured. i think he is still a good player if you give him his niche.

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 13, 2012 1:06 AM EST up reply actions  

Trading Amar'e would be dumb.

It’d be like amputating your hand when you just need stitches. Knicks need a PG who can run the PnR consistently and play defense.

by erniesto on Jan 13, 2012 1:08 AM EST up reply actions  

i don't know . . .

it’s not just the pg though, it’s everything. it’s the spacing. he’s not going to get the spacing he got for the first half of last year with carmelo and tyson. for a guy who faces up instead of posts up, that’s very important that he’s not getting room. you can tell. he gets blocked every time he goes in this year he’s not going to have plays run for him as consistently. plus when you play slow, grind it out style like we do now, his defensive issues get amplified. you have to play tight defense if you play that style, and amare makes it like going 4 on 5 sometimes.

plus, you’re never going to get synergy with amare and carmelo. a guy like bargnani who has an outside and inside game would be able to take advantage of the double teams carmelo got in the post with his perimeter game. or bring some doubles to him and let carmelo feast. amare doesn’t bring that. he faces up which doesn’t draw doubles and doesn’t give him the ability to pass (especially considering he keeps his head down as he dribbles).

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 13, 2012 1:14 AM EST up reply actions  

If anything

the knicks should shop around Jeffries and Douglas for a career backup PG. Neither will play much of a part down the stretch, but a backup PG for Davis is essential

by erniesto on Jan 13, 2012 11:40 AM EST up reply actions  

it really isn't though

bargnani is the perfect style of player to put next to carmelo. he is younger and more skilled than amare. i don’t love his attitude and i think he’s a mental weakling, but that’s not enough for me to ignore how well his game would mesh with carmelo. carmelo draws defensive attention in the post and then can pass out to bargnani who is effective in the perimeter and either draws a big man out to defend him or destroys the smaller defender. bargnani also has a post game and obviously carmelo has a perimeter game so they could switch roles from time to time too.

i think things have the potential to get really ugly with amare especially if he doesn’t find his jumper (and his jumper has looked really awful this year . . . i just expect bricks with him at this point). he could look like garbage this year and after that we’d be lucky to get rid of him in a salary dump.

best case scenario IMO is our offense becomes baron/amare pick and roll on one side with carmelo on the other wing and amare gets his jumper back. even better would be if amare started trying to post up (he’s so afraid to though . . .dude faces up on the low block that’s how bad it is).

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 13, 2012 5:54 PM EST up reply actions  

but the baron/amare and carmelo offense is not ideal IMO

it’s fractured

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 13, 2012 5:55 PM EST up reply actions  

my deal is i believe that great players have the offense run through them and make their teammates better

handing the keys to baron davis is not ideal with carmelo. i think there is the possibility that we will have to hand the keys to baron davis because he’s going to be running the pick and roll, and with mike’s offense, the guy who guns the pick and roll is the primary play maker and decision maker.

of course, there will be isolation possessions and carmelo will run the pick and roll sometimes, but it’s not the same.

that offense could be pretty good because its ceiling is having amare and carmelo on the floor at the same time where they’re both effective. but i think the highest potential would be building a team around carmelo’s game that plays half court and in the post.

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 13, 2012 6:22 PM EST up reply actions  

running the offense through a player and having him play pg are not analogous . .

he is a very strong ball handler for a small forward, but obviously he is not in the category of the real pgs with good handle. he is also not fast enough to run the fast break.

best example in the league right now is dirk nowitzki. mavericks run their offense through him, but he is not the point guard and they have a lot of secondary play makers. they have jason kidd to set up the offense and run some pick and roll. jason terry to play pick and roll and provide some penetration. jj barea to play pick and roll and provide some penetration. but down the stretch, the ball went through dirk’s hands every possession. that is the role you’d want to put carmelo in. dirk is a very good passer, but carmelo is just as good if not better. he can go in that role.

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 14, 2012 3:00 AM EST up reply actions  

We are running everything through Melo right now, shouldn't it be your dream come true?

He has total free reign to call plays for himself or create for others, he brings the ball up, he can call a clear out any time he wants, if he wants to PnR he can—D’Antoni has totally handed over the reigns of the offense. You should be, like, struggling to control your erection right now, that’s how much we’re running the offense through Melo.

But in case you haven’t noticed, it suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks. He has managed to totally butcher what was not long ago one of the better offenses in the league, completely neutralize the talents of a multiple time All-NBA scoring PF and make a formerly effective if scrappy group of backcourt players look like they don’t even belong in the league. Even Tyson Chandler, who is scoring with his usual uber-efficiency, is getting 3 fewer shot attempts per 36.

Why? Because Carmelo is a great scorer who is incompetent at running an offense, end of story. The answer isn’t something retarded like “trade Amar’e Stoudemire for Andrea Bargnani” it’s “get a goddamn PG and resume running the system that made everything actually work.” If Carmelo can’t thrive in SSOL or less he’d be pretty much the first player to fail at it. So I don’t know what you’re worried about.

by flossy on Jan 14, 2012 8:32 AM EST up reply actions  

he is not a point guard! i never said he was!

this is not what anyone wants out of carmelo. no one wants him playing fake magic johnson. this is our team using a makeshift plan because we have a huge hole at our back court. we’re doing this because he’s possibly our best ball handler. it is far, far, far from ideal. you want carmelo getting the ball in the post, but our offense can hardly even do that, so he has to bring the ball up himself. he has been doing a pretty good job looking for his teammates, but he’s also had a lot of turnovers. this role is probably asking too much from him or at least is putting him out of his element.

do you understand the difference between what i’m advocating and what’s going on now? there’s a big, big difference. i never said i wanted carmelo to play point guard. ideally, you want carmelo playing next to a point guard like billups (or i should say billups from a couple of years ago) or jason kidd who can set up the offense, make entry passes, control the pace of the game, and spread the floor with his shooting. baron does not really fit the bill because he’s more of a penetrating point guard and he can’t shoot, but baron suits amare’s game more so we’ll live with it.

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 14, 2012 2:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Billups and Kidd are nothing alike

But no matter. Here’s the bottom line, you love Melo so much that you want the Knicks to run an offense designed specifically to flatter his particular game and abilities, despite the fact that nobody else on the team thrives in that kind of ‘system’. Your passion for Carmelo Anthony blinds you to the reality that we did not trade for Carmelo Anthony in order to walk it up the floor and dump it down in to Carmelo in the post like he’s lil’ Hakeem and have him either shoot or pass out of the double.

That is emphatically not the kind of offense our coach uses. That is emphatically not the kind of offense the All-Star forward on a max deal we already had prefers to plan in. That’s not the kind of offense the rest of the team thrives in either, as should be obvious by now.

Carmelo is the square peg. The rest of the team is a round hole. Carmelo is talented enough to mold himself to fit within the team. That is what needs to happen, not the other way around.

Or was it not enough that the most exciting Knicks team in a decade was near-gutted in order to get Melo, but now, bit by bit, we’re supposed to get rid of the other pieces that are left (including the star player who brought the franchise back!), in order to slowly transform it into a half-court outfit of post-ups and kick-outs that is entirely alien to the identity of the Knicks pre-Melo?

No. Dude was brought here to be a weapon in SSOL. He should be thriving on easy transition scoring and the open catch-and-shoot jumpers and lanes to the rim that are the result of a defense pre-occupied buy one of the league’s best PnR attacks. That is how Carmelo can get his 25ppg without reducing the rest of the team to spectators and spot-up shooters.

If your man crush on Melo literally can’t handle the idea of a successful Knicks offense in which every play isn’t specifically run for Melo, then you need to just admit what has long been obvious, which is that you’re a fan of Carmelo Anthony, not of the New York Knicks.

by flossy on Jan 14, 2012 4:11 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

i am a knicks fan. i am giving my opinion on what i think we should do to be put in the best position to win

and that would be putting our star player in position to succeed and building a team that makes sense.

amare and carmelo do not make sense. i like amare. i don’t love his game because he’s not the smartest player in the world and he lacks a post game, but i like him. at his best he’s a very exciting player and fun to root for. it doesn’t make me happy that i think that it would be best for this team to trade him. but that’s the situation we’re in right now. we have two players making maximum money who don’t make a lot of sense playing next to each other. plus we have a center making near max money who doesn’t make sense playing next to him.

maybe the trade wasn’t the best move for the team. carmelo is great, but we’re not going anywhere with him and a bunch of pieces that don’t fit. it is unfortunate. but what’s done is done. moving forward, i really think the FO has to think about making a trade. the carmelo/stoudemire connection is just not happening. you keep carmelo because he is the better player and try to move amare for someone whose game FITS with carmelo and tyson. that would be a mid post/perimeter guy. so pau, luis, or bargnani would be the ideal choices. out of those three i would pick bargnani ONLY because he is younger than pau and luis who are in their thirties.

it is not because i have a “man crush” on carmelo. trust me, i don’t take any solace in a knicks loss even if carmelo puts up 30/9/7 or whatever. this season has been painful for me because the team looks like garbage. i am stating my opinion on what the team can best do to build itself into a winner going forward. what pieces stay and what pieces go. i think it makes the most amount of sense to keep carmelo and tyson and move amare for a four who fits with them better. it’s not because of my “man crush” on carmelo. it’s because i think he is the knicks most valuable asset at this point. carmelo and one of luis, bargnani, and pau would be a good enough 1/2 tandem to be contenders and their games work together. that’s why i would do that trade.

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 14, 2012 9:18 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

That last paragraph is actually the point

Baron fits Amar’e and Amar’e fits MDA’s offense. We don’t want Baron being the shooter. We want him taking the shot if he’s open but the ideal plan is he gets the ball to our other shooters. The ball moves the offensive moves shots are created, Amar’e and Chandler get the ball where they need it to be successful. Posts can be run for Melo but not from the outset. Melo is the best player on the team. Melo ball, so to speak, is not the best offense for the team. It is out of necessity right now but not ideal. It is also why he’s getting beat up just like Amar’e last year.ISO’s need to be run much later in the clock so the rest of the guys don’t stagnate. The O as conceived, as it should be run, is actually better suited to his not getting beat up as well as getting open lanes and open shots.

It’s not his fault essentially, but neither is it a let’s get rid of Amar’e cuz he’s screwing Melo’s mojo. ISO basketball is screwing the team mojo if you ask me and its as ugly to watch as Mark Jackson taking 15 seconds to back a guy down in the post in the 90’s. We’re not winning anything like this. And Melo IS good and skilled enuff to meld into MDA’s O. I’d go on, but as I’m writing this Flossy has posted his thoughts and I’ll probably just be rehashing what he already said…

This isn’t a bashing of you or Melo by the way, but it can’t continue this way and won’t get fixed entirely if at all until Baron Davis joins the festivities.

Lastly, the ideal player to get this year would have been a Chris Paul or similar player to run point. Didn’t happen so here we are with Chandler. Last year I’d have said no way. But healthy and changing the complexion of our D I am 100% pleased. That being said it’s still an unfinished product until we get consistency out of the point guard position as well as leadership. A guy who runs plays and resets when the play doesn’t work but possession is maintained. A guy who initiates the O, directs traffic and gets guys like Amar’e and Fields the ball in their spots as well as Melo. We see what Bully can do when he is set up. I’m done. Hope you watch the game.

by screamedia on Jan 14, 2012 4:35 PM EST up reply actions  

No, Bargani is goddamn terrible

An even worse defender and rebounder than Amar’e who has never displayed even a fraction of the dominant play or leadership capability that Amar’e has. Why the hell would you waste an All-NBA caliber scorer on a paper-soft big man who just chucks 3s? Why on earth would you ask Mike D’Antoni to re-build his offense on the fly around Melo’s low-post game?

by flossy on Jan 13, 2012 6:01 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

bargnani is not a worse defender . . .

amare is as bad a team defender as it gets. he just has low bball iq on that end. plus bargnani is a decent post up defender.

i don’t LOVE bargnani’s game. he is a bad rebounder (part of it is playing beyond the perimeter though). he is not a great passer. he is not a particularly good defender.

BUT if you are going to have tyson chandler and carmelo anthony, he is the exact type of power forward you want to have. someone who can play in the mid post and perimeter. he can draw a big man defender away from carmelo or feast when carmelo kicks it out to him.

bargnani is having a good season btw. he is young and skilled. he has a lot more finesse to his game than stoudemire. basketball-wise, trading amare for him would be a no brainer for new york. i don’t think it will happen though because it’ll be seen as insulting to stoudemire (and i like amare, so i would consider that).

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 13, 2012 6:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, Bargani is a worse defender

and this

basketball-wise, trading amare for him would be a no brainer for new york.

is fucking ludicrous. Any NBA GM that did that trade would be fired and rightly so. We’re talking about an 5-time All-NBA PF versus a chronically underachieving 7’ tall perimeter shooter. So that he can get kick-outs from Carmelo Anthony. In Mike D’Antoni’s new walk-it up, half-court Melo-ball offense. Seriously. Get a clue.

by flossy on Jan 13, 2012 9:02 PM EST up reply actions  

can we keep this civil please . . .

amare got 6 points last night. he’s been struggling every game. have you really been watching stoudemire and thinking, “oh man this guy is an all star.” no. he looks bad. he looks uncomfortable. he looks like every weakness he has is being exposed on offense and let’s not even get started on defense. no post game, not particularly strong handle, can’t finish left, no craft, not particularly soft touch around the rim, poor decision making. even his jumper’s gone missing but i’ll give him that for now since he had that before. this is not the amare stoudemire of last season or on the suns. this player is not an all star. a big part of it is the lack of a point guard, but another part is he is a running player. you want him getting the ball on the go. you want him playing with a lot of perimeter players who will open up the floor for him. that’s not going to happen with carmelo and tyson. amare in a slowed down offense is an ugly player.

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 14, 2012 2:49 AM EST up reply actions  

well, i should say amare's handle isn't that bad for a power forward

but he’s not kevin garnett or chris webber. you don’t really want him putting the ball on the floor too much.

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 14, 2012 2:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Right he's looked bad for several games, time to trade him for Bargani

Have you noticed that literally everyone on this team looks putrid in the Melo-as-PG offense?

The problem is not Amar’e Stoudemire. This is the same guy that dropped 30 in ten straight games a year ago. The problem is that having Carmelo make all the decisions on offense is kryptonite for every other player on the floor. We need a real PG and a system in which Carmelo is just a scorer and not the decision maker, for everyone’s sake, as soon as possible.

by flossy on Jan 14, 2012 8:21 AM EST up reply actions  

oh, so amare's problems as a player are carmelo's fault too?

whatever. i’m not enamored with amare stoudemire. he is dependent on a pick and roll system. that is not a big man worth giving a max contract to. he should have a post game and not be reduced to lame dribble drives when he wants to create for himself. if you really want to be a team with a chance at anything, your two best players should have chemistry or even synergy. amare and carmelo don’t, and they never will, and if you want to make that carmelo’s fault have fun, but just know that amare is the one whose niche is the size of a pigeon hole. not carmelo. look at this team when amare is on the floor and carmelo isn’t. straight garbage. no one can get anything going whatsoever. this is a big man paid to score, but he can’t do it without a pg.

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 14, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

whatever. i’m not enamored with amare stoudemire.

You’re not enamored of anyone aside from Melo. They could have put together a team of Chris Paul, Kevin Durant, and Amar’e Stoudemire—all guys you “are not enamored with.” So I don’t see why the Knicks should re-arrange their entire identity to suit your fetish.

by flossy on Jan 14, 2012 4:15 PM EST up reply actions  

argument ad hominem . . .

i am not obsessed with carmelo. if you ask me who the best player in the nba is, it’s dirk nowitzki. but that’s because dirk plays how i think great players play. excellent scorer who makes his teammates better. i actually like chris paul. i brought up the point a few times that he played in a stat inflating system in new orleans to be devil’s advocate, but i still like him a lot. he definitely would have been very nice to put next to amare. i wish he made more interior passes instead of making a bunch of moves to break his man down and then kicking it out, but he probably would have done that playing pick and roll with amare.

but i don’t know why you need to attack me. none of the points i brought up about amare are untrue.

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 14, 2012 8:51 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

congrats. i used to come to this site for seth and osborne.

now im coming to read you too. nice ideas.

"We would look at each other with a glint of recognition and one of us would say, 'So you worry about ASIK, too,' as if admitting a secret vice. Then we would share our crazy ideas-- because all ideas about ASIK that are not immediately wrong turn out to be crazy."

by TheMoon on Jan 15, 2012 3:03 AM EST up reply actions  

For some reason the main thing that I remember from this game is that Walker was a sniper in this game to the max

I really really love his shot. I think it would behoove the Knicks to go small sometimes with Walker, Novak, or Anthony at the 4 and Amar’e at the 5 so we can try to get out and run and get some easy baskets, because this offense is genuinely putrid in the half-court atm.

Side-note: Toney Douglas shot 3-13 in this game.

by BJabs on Jan 13, 2012 12:58 AM EST reply actions  

problem is, small lineup or not, we wont run with Melo on the floor.

We play on melo-time, which isn’t running down the court, its moseying down in a jog.

Hate to say it, but melo looks like a square peg in d’antoni’s offense

by Kylero on Jan 13, 2012 1:03 AM EST up reply actions  

The idea when Melo came in was that we would be able to run with Melo for 47 minutes

then give him the ball in iso for 1 minute if we need it to close out the game. D’Antoni, unfortunately, conceded to Anthony this slow, boring, inefficient style of offense that simply has not worked no matter which way you look at it. If Melo doesn’t want to run, then D’Antoni should sit his sorry ass. It’s time for this team to run whether Anthony likes it or not. We NEED easier baskets. This offense has been gruesome.

by BJabs on Jan 13, 2012 1:12 AM EST up reply actions  

You just made huge assumptions based on nothing

Its Melos fault were not running as much, and also he’s the only one lolly gagging back? Really, cause I’ve seen a number of players do that as well. Maybe we should sit amares weak ass down too?

Maybe, just maybe, they aren’t running as much because they have no true PG to get out and push the O. Or even the fact that they’re exerting more energy on D, something no running d’antoni team had done, could have someone to do with it.

But its easier to put it on the shoulders of our best player so….

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by wilddre22 on Jan 13, 2012 3:55 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

+1

lets just be glad some Knicks fans arent Knicks coaches.

by bababooey2 on Jan 13, 2012 3:58 PM EST up reply actions  

ayo

"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy

by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jan 13, 2012 5:00 PM EST up reply actions  

LMAO

I said he deserves A CHANCE to start to SEE what he is made of. Seems pretty silly to criticize me for thinking he could be minimally competent as a PG when the Knicks coaching staff felt he could function as a PG in light of the amnestying of Blllups to acquire Chandler.

But hey since we are the topic of “basketball knowledge,” you wrote a 5,000 word fanpost before the draft about why the Knicks should get Josh Selby with the 17th pick in the first round. He ended up getting drafted 49th and last week he got arrested for marijuana charges. All hail to Chief Flossy!

by bababooey2 on Jan 13, 2012 9:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah because I'm totally saying things that D'Antoni isn't thinking about on a daily basis

Because D’Antoni totally hasn’t ran with every single team that he’s had in the past. Because Anthony totally isn’t a player that’s different from every other player that D’Antoni has ever coached. Because Anthony totally doesn’t have twice as much influence over a team than any other player that D’Antoni has ever coached.

Does this make sense to you now?

by BJabs on Jan 13, 2012 8:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I know you are employing sarcastic double negatives to make your argument but I still dont understand what you just said.

All Im saying is let a 4 straight 54+ win season coach who would have won a championship if Stoudemire didnt get suspended in 2007 for a couple of very important playoff games against the Spurs…..coach this team after he has a healthy roster.

by bababooey2 on Jan 13, 2012 9:40 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

You're right, you didn't understand what I just said

I’m saying D’Antoni needs to get back to running. I’m a huge D’Antoni supporter and I believe that his system is the superior system in the NBA. All that I’m saying is that he’s a pussy for getting away from what got him here, just because his superstar likes to play slow.

by BJabs on Jan 14, 2012 12:24 AM EST up reply actions  

But Toney was 0-8

I think – then caught FIRE and finished 3-5. Or it may have been 0-7 and 3-6. So at least he hit a few and maybe got out of his funk.

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 13, 2012 10:25 AM EST up reply actions  

and made like 12

they could be up by 10 if he shot as well from th eline as, say…. tyson chandler

/// aighttho.com \\/// twitter.com/aighttho \\

by stingy d on Jan 13, 2012 1:13 AM EST up reply actions  

yea thats better than i thought

but still…. thats what… 55%??

/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \

by stingy d on Jan 13, 2012 1:15 AM EST up reply actions  

17 points down the drain

/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \

by stingy d on Jan 13, 2012 1:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah. Good thing we went for Chandler.

Wouldn’t want a guy who misses 18 free throws in a single game.

by sisterray24 on Jan 13, 2012 5:26 PM EST up reply actions  

i mean

i dunno. it was a historical night. but it could have been an easier win, thats my only point of view. not trying to really open the chandler vs. howard can-o-worm

/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \

by stingy d on Jan 14, 2012 1:43 AM EST up reply actions  

its crazy

his made and missed free throw numbers very closely resemble his rebound and points numbers

/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \

by stingy d on Jan 13, 2012 1:21 AM EST up reply actions  

anyone think he heard the stuff about Bynum being te best center in the L?

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by Ozraider on Jan 13, 2012 1:24 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm not sure this was really about him being motivated

just about the Warriors having no one who could even think about stopping him.

by BJabs on Jan 13, 2012 1:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Partially a strategy by the Warriors as well?

As he gets the ball, they foul him. Turns an easy dunk and 2 points into, almost gauranteed, 1 point from the line.

by jlaw on Jan 13, 2012 8:36 AM EST up reply actions  

I know we as Knicks fans get all upset

When some analyst like Hollinger, or some talking head like Barkley ranks us in the bottom half of the NBA., but games like this are why that happens.

Good teams are supposed to A) Blow out bad teams at home B) Beat mediocre teams on the road and C) Be consistent
The Knicks have A) Lost to or barely scrapped by bad teams at home B) Lost on national TV and C) Have the consistency of old pudding.

by Mikel L on Jan 13, 2012 1:09 AM EST reply actions  

Again, what does being on TNT have to do with anything? Does being on national TV make the loss count double?

The Knicks team that lost at home to the Raptors and Bobcats isn’t the same as the Knicks team that is playing now which isn’t the same as the Knicks team that will be playing in a month.

by SweatbandProliferation on Jan 13, 2012 1:16 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

It's about entertainment

So to them it counts double.

Did this dude just did this?

by Rubbercons on Jan 13, 2012 1:28 AM EST up reply actions  

i wish they didn't take craps on the knicks so much

i get it, the team doesn’t look very good, no need to rub it in our faces. i’m freaking out thinking up amare trade scenarios and pondering which college coaches would be the best fit as is lol.

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 13, 2012 1:21 AM EST up reply actions  

Got to stop dissing the Grizz

That team can play, yo. They beat San Antonio and pushed OKC to the edge last year. Even without Zbo, they’re a TEAM. Above “Mediocre”.

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 13, 2012 10:28 AM EST up reply actions  

I can't explain how furious I am that Bill Walker only got to spin 21 minutes.

And, in the latter half of the fourth quarter, he wasn’t given the ball more often.

This game only further proves that Bill Walker and OJ Mayo will forever wake up to play one another. The childhood friends and high school teammates played the same exact quantity of minutes, matching up against one another. Both had excellent games in short minutes. Both were hitting difficult long-range shots, both were active defensively.

It is robbery that we weren’t allowed to see more action from the two of them, pause.

For those curious, the last time Walker and Mayo got to spin against each other was March 12th, 2010. Bill Walker dropped 21 points on 8-13 shooting, including 2-4 from beyond the arc. Mayo was 9-16 from the floor for 22 points, in a Grizzlies win. It was one of the more entertaining losses I’ve ever seen, with Walker and Mayo obviously starring down the stretch while guarding each other, and I am obviously irate it was not duplicated.

by Osborn on Jan 13, 2012 1:22 AM EST reply actions  

but what did tnt say

because that was in the scouting report. as i have previously noted previously.

/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \

by stingy d on Jan 13, 2012 1:24 AM EST up reply actions  

TNT said the Knicks stink.

It sucks because I thought they were just having a shitty game on the second half of a travelling back-to-back.

TNT also said I’m dynamite and that I’ll win the fight and that I’m a power load and TNT also requested to watch me explode though so idk no homo bro but idk bout TNT though dude lol PAUSE #PAUSE though bro lol.

by Osborn on Jan 13, 2012 1:32 AM EST up reply actions  

you;re a deuceshnozzle@!!

/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \

by stingy d on Jan 13, 2012 1:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Forgot to mention

That Shump also ruined a bunch of possessions by picking his dribble at the elbow, forcing himself to just pivot around like a fool looking for a bail-out pass. Yucky.

by Seth on Jan 13, 2012 1:29 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

yea that was uncharacteristic tho

/// aighttho.com \\/// twitter.com/aighttho \\

by stingy d on Jan 13, 2012 1:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Uncharacteristic...

in the last 3 games..which are the only NBA games he’s played…

by robk on Jan 13, 2012 9:29 AM EST up reply actions  

I always yell at TD when he does this..

Or actually, the TV. I’m sorry TV..

Did this dude just did this?

by Rubbercons on Jan 13, 2012 1:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Would we call that performance a Shumpnozzle?

Seems correctable. I bet the Grizz watched film, were prepared, cut off his intended pass and he panicked.

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 13, 2012 10:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Lin is a pass first PG

Sherbert should be guarding SG’s since he’s like 6’5.

by 420man! on Jan 13, 2012 1:33 AM EST up reply actions  

What have you seen...

that I haven’t? Have you seen the spin Lin has gotten. He hasn’t looked that great in the garbage time minutes he’s gotten… what makes you think you’ll look good against first unit defenses, etc? Just because he’s a pass-first point guard doesn’t mean that he’s ready to start in the NBA at this point, no matter how badly we need one.

by Zhantee on Jan 13, 2012 10:00 AM EST up reply actions  

Lin must look really bad in practice

to have not gotten off the bench last night.

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 13, 2012 10:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Mike Dantoni's

Eurocentric tendencies?

I think Lin doesn’t start because either Dantoni is planning some epic plan… or just really that dense.

Knicks should start him for 1 game see how it goes… you never know until you try…
Bulls started John Lucas III when Rose was out for the wizards game.
“John Lucas III” scored 30 on John Wall.

by 420man! on Jan 13, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Keep up the 420 man!

Whatever you think about D’Antoni, accusing him of “Eurocentric tendencies” is laughable. Is it really not obvious to you that D’Antoni gives plenty of playing time to players who are not of European origin?

I like the idea of Lin. His play in garbage time has been horrible. If Lin were really even a potential starter, you’d think he’d be able to hold his own during garbage time, no?

by sisterray24 on Jan 13, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Lin sucks.

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Jan 13, 2012 3:58 PM EST up reply actions  

they're replaying all the horror on NBA TV

in case anybody missed it, and has the channel. But really maybe don’t watch. Just trying to be helpful?

by mp987987 on Jan 13, 2012 2:29 AM EST reply actions  

I woke up about 12:45 last night and considered watching the game live

But decided to go back to sleep as I’ve not been feeling great all week.

Seems like The knicks could’ve done with such wise decisions

by Bertilad on Jan 13, 2012 2:52 AM EST reply actions  

having a real pg would work mircales.

this is the biggest problem i see and that is why there is no nice flow to the offense. I believe the shots would be falling if a good point guard was running the offense. It would help out Stat, Chandler and everyone in general. I don’t think the problem is Melo not willing to play MDA style but there isn’t a real pg right now until Baron gets healthy. We would incorporate some of Melo’s style and still play MDA style at same time. I think some people are going to extremes when they say trade Stat. We haven’t even seen them play with a good pg yet.

by RASHADI on Jan 13, 2012 3:24 AM EST reply actions  

They obviously don't think Lin can play PG

So I’m kind of disappointed that they didn’t sign someone who at least could a little bit. Shit, they could have brought in Rafer Alston.

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 13, 2012 10:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Man during the first half i was rooting for Melo to go to Shumpert and ript he ball out of his hands

that chucking spree was unacceptable. He was like 0-8 and still kept shooting…

Also i hope melo is alright because without him we really have no offensive player at all…
Yes Amare is there, but Jesus Christ he has looked absolutely terrible. He’s shooting under 45% for the season, playing bad defense and just overall sucking hard. Did Aliens from a carnival in space steal all his basketball abilities after the boston game? Someone get Jordan on that now.

by lololol on Jan 13, 2012 4:17 AM EST reply actions  

Team needs to play offense without Melo to bail them out

So if he misses a few games, I don’t think that’s a bad thing necessarily, long term.

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 13, 2012 10:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Melo has been doing other things other than just shooting

He’s average over 4 assists a game and while his 43.9% is low, it’s not far off his 45.8 Career shooting , while Stat’s career shooting is 53.5…that’s over a 10% drop

by lololol on Jan 13, 2012 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Not denying Melo is shooting poorly too

be he easily can get to his career line with 1 or 2 good games. Amare has had such a huge drop off that it’s perplexing.

by lololol on Jan 13, 2012 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

what i got out of the grizzly game...

1. melo and stat have NOT embraced the TEAM concept… they need to be the biggest ball movers for it to become the offensive culture.

2. our flawed roster, void of any true PG’s capable of probing defenses and mandating movement, will be our offensive achilles all year.

3. there’s something not right either between MDA and our 2 stars… or there’s something fundamentally wrong with the pairing of stat and melo.

by bucketsncents on Jan 13, 2012 6:46 AM EST reply actions  

Those are essentially all the same thing...

Comes down to our two stars being ballstoppers and not ballmovers. And I wonder if why Amare puts his head down and never passes on his drives is because he feels he won’t see the ball again that possession? Same with Melo… maybe he feels if he gives it to Amare, the ball won’t find its way back into his own hands? Occasionally the ball will move crisply… and then for whatever reason, it stops for lonnnng stretches.

I dunno, just a frustrating game… I just remember such better and consistent ball movement last year all year and I wonder if that’s because Melo joined OUR offense. Now with the offseason (even with it being so short), we’ve adjusted a bit more towards Meloball.

by Zhantee on Jan 13, 2012 10:11 AM EST up reply actions  

I'd say Melo and Stat have embraced the team concept

but that doesn’t mean they have any idea what to actually do out there to succeed. I think Amar’e is a great player but he is overconfident as a one on one player. I don’t think he’s all that great one one one.

Those guys can both throw a pass but it has never been their primary game, and it’s hard to just start doing that in the middle of an NBA game. It takes a lot of time and confidence, it takes a floor general constantly telling you you can do it, and showing the way.

As for MDA, I think he likes for players to figure it out themselves, and I think that he may not be particularly good at helping them figure it out, especially on the offensive end. He is one coach that badly needs a point guard.

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 13, 2012 10:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Seriously

I just laughed at this game. It was such a disaster that I couldn’t even get upset about it.

I give shump this much.. he tried to put the game on his shoulders. Didn’t succeed, but I hope he uses it as a barometer and learns from this experience.

Man, Melo looks so much better in Denver then he did here. I mean even when Melo was disinterested in playing for them last year he still looked better. His effort comes in such spurts it is a little maddening.

He really does remind me of certain kind of athlete I encounter from time to time. The ones that seem to just look like crap when other guys look terrible but shine when everyone else can do what they are supposed to do (Olympics??). He does not seem like the type that brings the best out of everyone else.

In no way am I saying get rid of him, but I definitely think we need to build a much better team around him.

My Wife is a Patriot's fan...

by Giantssincesix on Jan 13, 2012 8:22 AM EST reply actions  

Maybe

Perhaps one thing that D’antoni, Amar’e, and Melo all need is a talented and authoritative point guard / offense orchestrator. They are all rendered ordinary (for different reasons) by the absence of one. And I think they need a really, really good one. I’m not sure Chauncey was good enough.

Either this entire season is hanging on BD’s disk, or the Knicks really have no chemistry and/or serious coaching problems.

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 13, 2012 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Lol

I read BD’s disk the wrong way…….

My Wife is a Patriot's fan...

by Giantssincesix on Jan 13, 2012 11:11 AM EST up reply actions  

I missed when poop flinging was something good

now they just fling poop

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Jan 13, 2012 8:42 AM EST reply actions  

wait!

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Jan 13, 2012 8:45 AM EST up reply actions  

holy shit

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Jan 13, 2012 8:59 AM EST reply actions  

Total knee-jerk reaction obviously

along with some sarcasm towards the doomsayers and to summarize what they’re all saying… BUT unfortunately there’s more than a bit of truth in this as well:

We have a point guard who doesn’t pass.
We have a shooting guard who can’t shoot.
We have a wing who is lazy.
We have a power forward who doesn’t D.
We have a center who doesn’t post.

by Zhantee on Jan 13, 2012 10:16 AM EST reply actions  

Also

We have a coach who doesn’t coach.
We have a DWTDD who doesn’t DWTDCD.
We have a guy named Jorts who never seems to be wearing jorts.

It’s been a rough year for the Knicks so far.

by sisterray24 on Jan 13, 2012 5:33 PM EST up reply actions  

O.J.Mayo!

I told everybody many times. O.J.Mayo should be a New York Knick.
Boy that L.Fields is a top shooting guard in the NBA.
NOT!

by Dziedzic on Jan 13, 2012 10:18 AM EST reply actions  

When was he on the trade block?

And Mayo is a top SG?

Strikeouts are boring- Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.

by CasanovaWong on Jan 13, 2012 10:23 AM EST up reply actions  

What World Do You Live In?

For the last two years the Memphis team was loooking to move Mayo.
Due to injuries they held back for the last five months plus the league was on strike.
Now this guy can play both PG/SG unlike I.Shumpert whom should be are starting two.

by Dziedzic on Jan 13, 2012 6:27 PM EST up reply actions  

How many...

more low efficient shooters do you want to add to this team???

My Wife is a Patriot's fan...

by Giantssincesix on Jan 13, 2012 11:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Seriously

Career FG%:

OJ Mayo: 44%
Landry Fields: 49% – and that’s including his struggles the second half of last year and this year

by Joamiq on Jan 13, 2012 4:25 PM EST up reply actions  

oj mayo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> landry fields

oj is in a bad place with memphis. he’s not a good fit, and they’re mad at him about the fight and the steroids last year . they want him coming off the bench as a spark plug and that’s not his game. he’s more brandon royish.

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 13, 2012 6:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Fields Is Not A Two

L.Fields belongs only at the backup SF position. Until we get rid of D’Antoni we will have deal with B.S. by positioning players to play out of position.
Very sad.

by Dziedzic on Jan 13, 2012 6:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I m just going to say,

Mayo sucks for the hell of it.

A void? I see no void!

by gunsbound on Jan 13, 2012 11:13 AM EST up reply actions  

OK Mayo is not good at basketball.

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Jan 13, 2012 3:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Just the latest opposing player that the Knicks made look like an all-star

If we exchanged everyone who plays for us for everyone who looked good against us, we’d have a starting lineup of:

Boris Diaw
Tyler Hansbrough
D.J. White
O.J. Mayo
Brandon Rush

Sound good to you?

by sisterray24 on Jan 13, 2012 6:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey

My dad said that Fields was running the point at the end of the game. Is this true?

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 13, 2012 10:50 AM EST reply actions  

It looked that way a little bit to me too

but it was just garbage time and they were just trying to get the ball up the floor quickly

by ubd on Jan 14, 2012 10:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Poor fields, worked all summer on his 3 pt shot and never sees the ball.
That’s what happens to to players.

Fields is relegated to taking wild shots on the very rare occasions he see
the ball (WHICH IS WHAT TNT announcers kept mentioning all last nite).

Fields is shooting 43.6 , Douglas 31.7, Stoudemare 42%, Lee 48.9% and 10.4 rbs

by frankiec on Jan 13, 2012 1:17 PM EST reply actions  

Lee!

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Jan 13, 2012 3:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Couple things here

Many of which have already been stated in the thread or elsewhere. I feel like 11 games are enough to derive some meaningful concerns about this squad, lest anyone think I’m overreacting to one game.

1. The Knicks really just need a PG. A real, pass first PG with adequate court vision. That will fix sooo many of their problems. It gets the ball out of Carmelo’s hands, gets Amare the ball in situations other than an Iso, and keeps Shumpert from the temptation of taking it to the tIn himself every time. I can’t overemphasize what a dramatic effect I think this will have. It’s kinda scary to be so reliant on Boom’s health, but if he can stay on the court, I think the Knicks’ll be fine.

2. Shump’s game to night really exposed his weaknesses. Frankiec, unfortunately, is right in that this was most certainly the scouting report on him coming into the pros. Not a good shooter, but can’t find a shot he doesn’t like. Can get into the lane, but doesn’t posses the court vision or discipline to be a real point guard. The first few games were exciting, and his defense, intensity and quickness are all NBA quality, but the guy is a backup. We can play him at the 2 when Boom gets back, but his lack of jumper really limits his value as a starting 2. I can live with he and TD as a two-headed combo guard attack off the bench, but IMO neither of them are starters on a competitive team.

3. I dont wanna get too deep into this, but Stat’s explosiveness is in noticeable decline. This troubles me.

"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy

by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jan 13, 2012 1:51 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Re: point #1, and I never, ever though I'd say this

I would consider trading Toney Douglas for Chris Duhon. Or someone of that caliber. Without Baron Davis, who is a huge question mark, we literally do not have even a single back-up caliber PG, let alone anyone who can do spot duty as a starter. Mike Bibby is basically a chalk outline. Jeremy Lin is a d-leager. Toney Douglas is in a death spiral and has never been much of a PG anyway. Iman Shumpert is a lovely young man who should spend his year playing 20-24mpg off the bench, not starting at PG. Carmelo Anthony… is so not a PG.

Re: Amar’e… I think you may be right, but at the same time, he’ll look a lot more ‘explosive’ if he doesn’t have to dribble past defenders from 15-20 feet away. Which he sucks at, and always has.

by flossy on Jan 13, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

yea, I agree on Duhon (barf)

If they can’t or won’t do that, I think they should let Bibby spin more, regardless of his defensive ineptitude. He can hit an open cutter, initiate the offense, get the ball to a man in position and can an open three. Nobody else on the team can do that

"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy

by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jan 13, 2012 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I think he must be injured or something

I can’t imagine any other reason that D’Antoni, of all people, wouldn’t play him more.

by flossy on Jan 13, 2012 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Re:2, we did see Shump's weaknesses displayed in full force, but that doesn't mean that he can't be an effective PG for this team

He is still just starting out and clearly has some poor tendencies that need to be addressed, but I think we should see a larger sample before we count him out. He is on a different type of squad now than he was at Georgia Tech

by SweatbandProliferation on Jan 13, 2012 3:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah he just had some growing pains which is expected.

"I want to be a catcher. I love to catch. I like to be a catcher. I like to be in the middle of the game. I mean, it's my position. I want to play my position."-Jesus Montero

by 2xtheBully on Jan 13, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I hate to admit

but yes to #3 for me…he shows it still at times, but it def seems on the decline unless there is an injury that hasn’t been revealed

You just got Tysoned!!!!!!

by Jason Bee on Jan 13, 2012 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I am really hoping the lack of explosiveness thing is a result of the 20 extra lbs of muscle

I wonder if its possible to get rid of that weight now if its actually the problem

by ubd on Jan 13, 2012 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

amare still looks pretty explosive to me

he’s noticeably heavier this season. that’s probably the biggest difference. he has not been a high leaper since 2005. his explosiveness is his ability to not have to set himself up before jumping. he can still do that. that dunk against the warriors was an amare stoudemire special. the real difference is the spacing and lack of pick and roll play. it is a lot easier to play around the rim when all you have to do is beat the slower center while gallo/wilson chandler have drawn the power forward away from the basket.

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 13, 2012 6:07 PM EST up reply actions  

The last 3 games

we were getting worse and worse offensively. The first 2 games defense kind of masked that, but this time it got exposed. I don’t know if they are not athletic enough to play good defense and have enough left to run efficient offense. The jump shooters have no lift, so they keep missing. Maybe it is because they defend running from one player to another and get tired very quickly?
Yes, I agree we need BD to play asap, my only question is what would be our excuse after he is back and we still keep losing

by YIK on Jan 13, 2012 2:09 PM EST reply actions  

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