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Around SBN: Ray Allen Fighting Age, Injury And His New Role

Magic 102, Knicks 93: "Orlando made their threes, the Knicks didn't."

It was a pretty simple loss, really, and lololol's comment in the game thread pretty much summed it up. The Magic reacted to New York's terrific defense on Dwight Howard by moving the ball faster than the Knicks could scramble to recover, finding open shooters, and draining three-pointers, especially in the fourth quarter. The Knicks also moved the ball pretty well-- at least better than we've seen-- but missed their open shots from outside, especially in the fourth quarter. The Magic adapted to New York's solid defense and executed brilliantly. The Knicks did not do that. Ballgame!

Take the jump for a little more.

Star-divide

- Tyson Chandler did an absolutely heroic job against Dwight Howard, and he was so solid that I wish the Knicks just let him be. Chandler, who, as I said in this recap, might be the first Knick to ever seriously challenge Howard, did something we've never seen before: he withstood Howard's contact and pushed him right back. It was astounding, and it forced Howard into some ugly inside attempts and a couple of offensive fouls.

- ...so why double? I'd understand throwing the occasional aggressive double team at Howard to keep him on edge (and the Knicks did that), but cheating a perimeter player toward Howard on nearly every possession seemed unnecessary and counter-productive. The Magic did a good job of exploiting the half-assed double or inexpertly switched pick-and-roll and finding the open man throughout the afternoon, but it wasn't until the second half that they really cashed in on those outside attempts. And good lord, did they cash in. The team as a whole shot 17-35 from downtown, including a 7-13 three-point outing from Most Improved Player candidate Ryan Anderson (the Knicks have a habit of boosting folks' MIP campaigns. Do they take a commission?). The Knicks granted the Magic open jumpers and the Magic hit a lot of them. That's really it. Exactly half of their points came from downtown, and a number of those make came off weird broken plays or second opportunities. Stinky.

- Aside from allowing an already excellent three-point shooting team to hit well above its average percentage, the Knicks defended pretty well. They mostly kept the Magic off the line (and, uh, defended them pretty well at the line. They were just 13-22, mostly thanks to Howard) and forced them into 17 turnovers, including 12 steals (3 apiece for Shump, Melo, and Amar'e).

- The problem with the above, though, is that the Knicks couldn't get easy points off o' them turnovers. They had just nine fast break points and twelve total points off turnovers, most of which seemed to be Shump's doing. Not to beat hammer this point through the wall, but a team that forces a lot of turnovers (and the Knicks do. They're fifth in in opposing turnover rate) but can't convert the other way seems in need of a point guard. Hey, maybe that's one way that Baron Davis guy could help!

- Y'all might not have noticed, but Al Trautwig blew this one for the Knicks in the pre-game show. During his intro, he made a bit of a slip: "...so, as the Knicks lose-- look to restart a winning streak..". He accidentally said "lose". I went back and checked, and it definitely happened. TRAUTWIG JINXED THE KNICKS AND MADE AMAR'E GET ALL THOSE FOULS YOU GUYS.

- Yo, those fouls, though. Jeez. Amar'e picked up two quick ones in the first quarter, added a charge and went back to the bench in the third, then immediately committed a fourth coming out of halftime. That whole time, he never really got a rhythm going. The only point at which he looked semi-decent offensively was in the fourth quarter when Tyson Chandler was on the bench. Hmm!

- Carmelo Anthony did a lot of things considering how few of his limbs (2 of 4 by my count) aren't quite working. He took a lot of shots (27! His third highest total of the whole season!), hitting some in the first half then going completely cold in the second half. Melo's best moments came when he attacked the basket, (though, to be fair, his outside shots were mostly open. They just didn't fall.) as Hedo Turkoglu, Earl Clark, and Quentin Richardson didn't have a fragment of a chance of containing him off the dribble.

- Iman Shumpert had another sub-par shooting line (3-9), but looked a bit more like the sharp, confident Shump of a week or two ago, particularly in the beginning of the third quarter. He made some great defensive plays to force turnovers and transition, including one highlight in which he got a steal in the backcourt, raced toward the basket, and threw a horrifying behind-the-back pass to Carmelo Anthony, who laid the ball in. His ear-to-ear grin afterward made the terror associated with that pass totally worth it. So, Shump had an okay game, (he hit two of four threes off the catch as well) but he also let Jameer Nelson blow by him a few times, screwed up a few transition drives, and really badly missed a few of his shots. He continues to play like somebody who has something to contribute, but not as much as the Knicks are asking of him. [cough]Baron Davis[cough]

- Landry Fields and Toney Douglas both seemed to momentarily shake their trubblez. Fields struggled to chase J.J. Redick off screens (that's pretty much a Mad-Lib at this point. Just fill in the name of the opposing shooting guard.), but didn't force things on offense and made a few nice buckets off the dribble. He's still not contributing much. Douglas, meanwhile, had a few stretches in which he did an impeccable job of keeping his dribble and pushing the ball "north-south" or "downhill" or whatever those football guys are saying nowadays. He dribbled right into the seams of the defense to find easy shots for himself or kick-outs for others. It wasn't a trend that lasted for all that long, but it was a glimpse of how Toney can remain effective even when his outside shot's not falling.

- Josh Harrellson is a more or less flawless basketball player.

- I'm pretty excited to have Jared Jeffries back. He's good for a couple useful defensive plays per outing, and has also done a nice job maintaining ball movement since he's been back. Oh, and he stepped to Dwight Howard when Dwight dared give Jorts an extracurricular shove.

- Clyde (sort of) confirmed rumors that he intends to start a Twitter account, which is going to make me really antsy until it actually happens.

- The Magic are like the polar opposite of the Nuggets in terms of Degree To Which I Miss The Team's Former Knicks.

- Melo's going to be okay, but his form was visibly wacky on a few of his attempts. He also jumped over the scorer's table sprained ankle-first to chase a loose ball, which made my entire body shrivel into a little man-raisin. He's fine, though.

So, it was a loss. That's never pleasant, but for whatever reason, I didn't find this one totally gut-wrenching. The home stand continues on Wednesday against the Suns.

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Comments

Display:

y cant we just trade for nash

that would equal a championship right now

by mrumack on Jan 16, 2012 7:58 PM EST reply actions  

who, who?

/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \

by stingy d on Jan 16, 2012 11:01 PM EST up reply actions  

somebody (a fan) on ESPN said shump for nash

to which I responded, “Apparently James Dolan and Isiah Thomas are sharing an alias on ESPN blogs”
I love you guys so much every time I read those clowns on that blog

by mp987987 on Jan 16, 2012 11:08 PM EST up reply actions  

shump for nash??

if the salaries are within 10,000% of each other i’d be surprised.

i have a feeling nash comes here next year for very little money. and i bet we keep baron too. i just hope we sit tight, because a little patience could go a long way.

/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \

by stingy d on Jan 16, 2012 11:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Nash and Baron are actually good friends

they have that tandem bicycle video so I’m sure they’d learn to co-exist

by blackhova on Jan 16, 2012 11:29 PM EST up reply actions  

i wish we could convince the others.

/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \

by stingy d on Jan 16, 2012 11:30 PM EST up reply actions  

This is beautiful

Did you click on Shaq & Ali G right after? You wouldn’t regret it

by mp987987 on Jan 16, 2012 11:55 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah,

I’m literally still watching Ali G videos. I started with all the NBA ones and now I’m in a playlist

by mp987987 on Jan 17, 2012 1:05 AM EST up reply actions  

HAHA

not a bad way to spend 2am

posi..tive ....thoughts..?
@krishhhayyy

by gymtanlandry on Jan 17, 2012 2:00 AM EST up reply actions  

i have a feeling nash comes here next year for very little money. and i bet we keep baron too. i just hope we sit tight, because a little patience could go a long way.

patience? What is this patience you speak of?

sreh ladien e' ta janjia

by Lord Smackington on Jan 16, 2012 11:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Could we really convince the both of them to do that?

I mean they’re friends and all but Baron wouldn’t get the time he deserves

posi..tive ....thoughts..?
@krishhhayyy

by gymtanlandry on Jan 16, 2012 11:50 PM EST up reply actions  

adios toney douglas

maybe we can trade him for a late first round pick.

/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \

by stingy d on Jan 16, 2012 11:51 PM EST up reply actions  

i love that nash is still ballin' outta control

10.1ast, 13.2pts, 50%FG, 35%3pt this year and he’ll be 39 next month.

by mp987987 on Jan 16, 2012 8:18 PM EST reply actions  

WHY?

Little Nash is just a stat boy now. Stats and very little winning.
Just what we all want more stats and less wins.
Sounds foolish to me.

by Dziedzic on Jan 16, 2012 8:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually

Nash doesn’t have many great players around him like he once did. You can’t just blame him for “very little winning”. He’s still a very good point guard who would be a great fit on this Knicks team. I’m not saying we go all out and try to get him because of Baron Davis, but having Nash would not be a bad idea in the slightest.

by CJGreffrath on Jan 17, 2012 10:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Knicks dodged a bullet with Grant Hill

It’s not Nash’s fault he’s playing with Grant Hill, Robin Lopez, and Shannon Brown.

by mindfeck on Jan 17, 2012 11:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Its All Nash Fault!

You have an overaged player making to much money and cannot find another team whom can eat his contract.
Just like many of the thirty something players. They want you to feel sorry for them while they have max contracts and didn’t win a ring in their career. A big joke as I see it.

If S.Nash wanted to win so badly he would have not taken his big contract in Phoenix for another year. Its not like he hasnot made big money over the years.
So here we are stuck with B.Davis as our B.S. option until next year.
Now you wonder why I get pissed off at the B.S. regarding this team and players like Nash.
I rooted against Kidd on getting a ring for the same B.S. attitude. The problem I had last year with Kidd winning the ring is I didn’t want the clowns in Miami getting either.
Kidd was the lesser of thee two.

by Dziedzic on Jan 17, 2012 2:17 PM EST up reply actions  

nash was badly underpaid before this contract

you’re wrong as usual

"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy

by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jan 17, 2012 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

also

who the fuck is taking 6 million a year, when your hometown team is offering you 14 or 15 or whatever?

let the guy live. utter nonsense.

/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \

by stingy d on Jan 17, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Overpaid Old Player

Little Nash will end up like the rest of the overpaid old players.
No rings just greed.

by Dziedzic on Jan 17, 2012 7:28 PM EST up reply actions  

yea man

if i were a professional basketball playing millionaire, i’d be worried about what some stooge has to say about greed.

/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \

by stingy d on Jan 17, 2012 7:37 PM EST up reply actions  

no you would not

You just dream about all b.s. loosing our Knicks do. You get off on all those loses. Very Sad. Enjoy your greedy players.

by Dziedzic on Jan 17, 2012 9:09 PM EST up reply actions  

i just don't understand

how you can expect a human being to be some sort of idealistic childhood notion of a hero specifically so you, as a fan of marketed exercise game, can get your rocks off.

you win some you LOSE some.

/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \

by stingy d on Jan 17, 2012 9:30 PM EST up reply actions  

...what?

Steve Nash, the league's MVP, is a longhaired Canadian who spoke out against the war in Iraq and reads The Communist Manifesto. Quentin Richardson declared after a game-winning shot that it "was like Hamlet. It was a suspense thriller, and I killed them at the end." Amare Stoudemire, when asked to comment on a 22-point third quarter against the Kings, said, "I've got a tendency to jump over some guys' heads and throw it down."

by rsavaj on Jan 17, 2012 7:24 PM EST up reply actions  

When do Amare's defensive shortcomings outweigh his offense?

As much as I love Amare, and I’ll always appreciate him making the Knicks relevant again, there have been times this year that I’m happy when he’s on the bench because his defense is such a liability.

I’m not saying we should get rid of him now of course but there should come a time in the near future when the front office should consider whether he’s worth keeping around or whether he would be more valuable as a trade chip in exchange for a bunch of spare parts.

Of course, this could also just be an overreaction to a 3 game losing streak

Home of the Jared Jeffries Shot Tracker

by bluecheese999 on Jan 16, 2012 8:26 PM EST reply actions  

I think the "parts" we'd get back for Amar'e would be very spare, indeed

There’s just not a trade market for a guy pushing 30 with an uninsured contract that has $70m left on it.

Amar’e’s defense has always been his offense, same with Melo. The problem is the Knicks offense seems practically designed to render him ineffective, so his offense doesn’t outweigh his defense. In order for two high-scoring, defensively challenged forwards to co-exist they need to both be able to score a lot. We will not be noticing Amar’e’s defensive lapses when he’s consistently putting up 23-25ppg. The Knicks need to figure out how to have a more balanced attack, with starts with handing the reigns to a competent PG, like, yesterday.

Trading Amar’e for pennies on the dollar is a great way to ensure this club does not contend for a ring anytime soon.

by flossy on Jan 16, 2012 8:57 PM EST up reply actions  

It's true, the rest of the league probably values him even lower than his current performance

It’d be a regrettable move unless we’re very wrong about this. The best move is to believe in him, throw him a parade (negligible expense compared to his contract and wouldn’t count toward salary cap) to restore his confidence, and have Melo go on every talk show to concede that Amar’e is the man in NYC.
Then and only then will we get our ’Mare back

by mp987987 on Jan 16, 2012 9:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Or we could skip the parade and actually run a pick and roll or two, or twelve

We run, literally, about one of those plays for him a night now. It’s only, ya know, the way he scored 25ppg or more for years. Might be worth revisiting. If only our much-heralded point-forward could run it.

by flossy on Jan 16, 2012 9:14 PM EST up reply actions  

makes literally no sense

we have one of the best pnr guys in the game and dont give him any. doubt we could find any other such squandering of ability in the the league

by mp987987 on Jan 16, 2012 9:23 PM EST up reply actions  

it is because this is a poorly constructed team

we can’t give amare pick and rolls while chandler and landry are on the floor. i’ve seen him with the second unit get more aggressive about setting screens, but none of our ball handlers outside of carmelo can even think about hitting him when he’s rolling.

maybe once we have baron amare can start being the pick and roll big again because carmelo will draw enough defensive attention to keep things somewhat open.

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 16, 2012 10:29 PM EST up reply actions  

With ball movement you can

Have those players on the court. Chandler can set screens and Landry’s passing isn’t terrible when he uses his damn brain.

I think we haven’t been giving the tempo argument enough credit. We have these bursts of energy from TD off the dribble (which is rare but happened tonight) or Shumps/Jorts steal, etc and then we have these periods of Melo iso’ing and missed FGs but once we have a confident distributer and passer, our shooters will have a) less to worry bout and b) more confidence in their shot

Just count down the days my friends.

posi..tive ....thoughts..?
@krishhhayyy

by gymtanlandry on Jan 17, 2012 12:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Why not?

He was able to play PnR with Shaq or Robin Lopez.

by mindfeck on Jan 17, 2012 11:19 AM EST up reply actions  

there are so many differences though . . .

first of all, that 2009 suns team was a major disappointment. they didn’t even go to the playoffs (part of it was amare getting his eye injured). amare took a lot of jumpers in 2009 anyway. also, shaq at least draws doubles to the post which opens up things a little for his teammates. overall, the suns had much better shooters in 2009 and 2010 than we do.

and we don’t have steve nash setting him up

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 17, 2012 10:44 PM EST up reply actions  

again, i don't know what's so wrong about trading amare

a front court of chandler, scola, and carmelo or chandler, bargnani, and carmelo is nicely balanced and not nearly as dependent on point guard play as this current front court. scola and bargnani are both worthy of being second options.

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 16, 2012 10:31 PM EST up reply actions  

i agree on the poor construction

it just fundamentally sucks that the guy who was here first is being pushed out by the guy we never needed.

by mp987987 on Jan 16, 2012 10:33 PM EST up reply actions  

agreed

not a fan of amare’s faux shooting guard game, but it is not a pleasant situation for him right now, and i am not happy that it doesn’t look like this duo is going to work.

we are such a bush league organization. we’re supposed to be long saved from the clutches of isiah, but we have the screwiest line up in the league, bar none, yet again. i blame the lead singer of j.d. and the straight shots.

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 16, 2012 10:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I disagree...

With trading Amare. The team as it stands now needs a distributor. Hopefully Baron is the man. The glaring problem is the woeful shooting guard situation. Landry needs the confidence to shoot. Iman has played 4 games in the nba. TD is struggling to put it kindly. Bill Walker is erratic and plays stupid half the time. Amare’s game will return when he has space to work and someone to get the ball to him.

by robk on Jan 16, 2012 11:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

Amare is the same player we saw last year. He just doesn’t have a competent PG.

by superturboultra on Jan 17, 2012 12:41 AM EST up reply actions  

also his jumper has turned to much . . .

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 17, 2012 1:39 AM EST up reply actions  

*mush

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 17, 2012 1:39 AM EST up reply actions  

not to mention

He made us relevant again…. takes cahones

posi..tive ....thoughts..?
@krishhhayyy

by gymtanlandry on Jan 17, 2012 12:43 AM EST up reply actions  

i really would feel bad about trading him

and it’s not a good pr move, but i would prioritize building a better team over that

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 17, 2012 1:40 AM EST up reply actions  

"Bush League" 100%

The problems run top to bottom in this organization, and it would take a portion of our cunning, no, all of our cunning to figure out where to start

by mp987987 on Jan 17, 2012 2:00 AM EST up reply actions  

my gut's tellin me

We have to develop the players we draft. And we don’t have a terrible start right now. Balkman, Fields, Shump, Jorts, JJ (am I missing anyone?) That’s not bad to work with. With some unified leadership, I see potential. And I think someone has to go…. too many cooks are spoiling this pot (did I remember that expression correctly?)

Let’s work with what we have instead of insisting that a newly hatched trade plan will be the solution to all of our problems.

posi..tive ....thoughts..?
@krishhhayyy

by gymtanlandry on Jan 17, 2012 2:05 AM EST up reply actions  

The Knicks aren't being taken seriously

SB Nation’s Power Rankings this week, Milwaukee Bucks:

“Milwaukee is still doing the bi-polar home-road jig, looking like world-beaters at the Bradley and an also-ran away from Wisconsin. That’s got to change for the Bucks to make an assault on a playoff seed; a game at the Knicks on Friday is as good an opportunity to grab a road win as any.”

Also, they said Orlando’s schedule is getting more difficult this week and left the Knicks out of that equation
I know we can’t put too much emphasis on any one person’s opinions, but the Knicks are sub-15 on every ranking I’ve been able to find. Why it’s a big deal: I’d be very hard pressed to find a way to disagree.
I think it’s time for our Knicks to start playing with a chip on their collective and individual shoulder(s)!

by mp987987 on Jan 16, 2012 8:46 PM EST reply actions  

well we suck

so it probably is

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 16, 2012 10:26 PM EST up reply actions  

so true about the former knicks

ugh. watching q celebrate made my skin crawl (and i prob liked him the best of the three, which is not saying that much, but still).

by old 34 on Jan 16, 2012 9:18 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Wish we had David Lee back. David Lee and Chandler under the basket. Lee shooting
52% and Chandler 70%. from the field AND LEE AVERAGING OVER 10 RBS A GAME, STILL!!!!

Do we have a #1 draft choice this year?

by frankiec on Jan 16, 2012 9:37 PM EST reply actions  

we do not.

Houston has ours unless it’s a top 5

by mp987987 on Jan 16, 2012 9:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Better start sucking better then

This team is going nowhere this year at least.

by erniesto on Jan 17, 2012 11:40 AM EST up reply actions  

wait i'm confused

do you want david lee on the team, or a guy that shoots 50% and gets 10 rebounds a game?

/// aighttho.com \\/// twitter.com/aighttho \\

by stingy d on Jan 16, 2012 11:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Man, Westbrook is a chucker

but he sure looks great when he’s hitting his shots

by Joamiq on Jan 16, 2012 10:23 PM EST reply actions  

he half brainless tho

if i had kevin durant and james harden on my team i would never bother to get mine.

/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \

by stingy d on Jan 16, 2012 11:03 PM EST up reply actions  

haha no doubt

but he’s got an important role, and would on any team

by mp987987 on Jan 16, 2012 11:04 PM EST up reply actions  

oh most definitely

and he’s a great player, but he sucks.

/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \

by stingy d on Jan 16, 2012 11:07 PM EST up reply actions  

lol

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 17, 2012 9:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Great recap, Seth...

It’s hard to win a game when the ther team hits threes like that. Tyson was amazing. And I’m going to say something I never though I’d say: Jared Jefferies played very well today. I think you said it Seth but he truly is our Knickiest Knick. Ama’e is another story, he’s struggling. It’s kind of painful to watch. Hopefully Baron will come and bring some good feeds with him for Amare.

Landry showed a couple of moments that were decent but either he has to start plying with some more confidence or he needs to sit. Humpty is showing more confidence lately.

Jorts rocks!!!

by robk on Jan 16, 2012 10:24 PM EST reply actions  

i think baron will help landry as much as amar'e.

but amar’e is lost, no way he shoots 40% all season. i don’t understand why that seems to be lost on people.

/// aighttho.com \\/// twitter.com/aighttho \\

by stingy d on Jan 16, 2012 11:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah. I hope so.

Landry Need’s to flip that switch. I feel like lately if he has a couple of decent plays on defense and hit a shot or two he sort of just turns it off and figures he’s contributed enough. His shot has been way off but he can’t get through that without shooting. He just looks scared.

by robk on Jan 16, 2012 11:14 PM EST up reply actions  

last year with felton

landry got pure open corner and wing three’s. this year- not so much. fields is the type of guy that knows when his man loses track of him, and thats what made him so crafty last year. but without a point guard who can penetrate and cause disruptions all game, landry is forced to fend for himself. so its gotten ugly. same thing goes for amar’e. when felton was off, amar’e sputtered. he wasn’t THIS bad, but he will fight through this stretch of bad ball.

/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \

by stingy d on Jan 16, 2012 11:29 PM EST up reply actions  

No coincidence the guys that play their best with a great playmaker all struggling mightily...Stat, TD and Landry..

If those guys were firing on all cylinders the Knicks win these games regardless of whether the opposing team hits all their 3s.

I am literally counting the minutes till BD suits up for practice next week.

by bababooey2 on Jan 17, 2012 12:48 AM EST up reply actions  

seconded

It’d be characteristic of P&T’ers to have something of the sort.

posi..tive ....thoughts..?
@krishhhayyy

by gymtanlandry on Jan 17, 2012 1:03 AM EST up reply actions  

Extremely sound analysis

It’s exactly what’s going on. Landry and Amar’e have just not been the same since Felton left. Amar’e did OK with Chauncey at PG, not spectacular. Fields sucked. Toney did well well with Felton, even better with Chauncey, looks shitty without either of those guys.

I think Amar’e’s confidence is OK but functionally he needs to be in the pick and roll with a PG that knows how to do it. Landry needs someone to pump up his confidence on the floor. Douglas needs to feed off the agressiveness of others – I also think he needs to spend some time guarding the off guard rather than always guarding the PG when he’s on the floor.

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 17, 2012 9:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Anybody else having a hard time watching the C's go down like this?

We all saw it coming, but it’s like a car crash can’t watch can’t look away.

by mp987987 on Jan 16, 2012 10:40 PM EST reply actions  

yeah, i actually called this after last year's playoffs

they looked old when carmelo almost beat them by himself, and they looked even older against the heat.

i hate boston, but i take no pleasure from this. garnett, pierce, and allen were all great players. that 2007-2008 squad played great basketball. garnett has been aging badly since the knee injury in 2009, and pierce finally hit the wall this season (he is also overweight).

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 16, 2012 10:48 PM EST up reply actions  

i always loved watching ray allen play

and kevin garnett was awesome pre-boston, to me. i don’t hate boston the way new york sports fans tend to. but their shit is looking awful ragtag this year.

/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \

by stingy d on Jan 16, 2012 11:07 PM EST up reply actions  

They can't lose enough for me

Fuck ’em

Proud owner of over 20,000 comments. (most of them in the wrong place) Oh yeah, and Buster Posey

by rxmeister on Jan 16, 2012 11:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

i mean, thats fine

i definitely don’t root FOR them. maybe against the lakers, or the heat.

/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \

by stingy d on Jan 16, 2012 11:50 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree

Garnett’s thuggishness (only toward smaller guys) and Pierce’s victory laps makes their downfall sweet. Ray Allen is a class act though, and I have great respect for Rondo’s game.

The sweetest part is seeing Ainge twist in the wind.

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 17, 2012 10:00 AM EST up reply actions  

Completely agree...

F the Celtics. F Garnett. F Pierce. You can’t argue with Ray Allen’s virtuosity or Rondo’s skill and speed (although he’s kind of a douchebag too).

by robk on Jan 17, 2012 10:42 AM EST up reply actions  

well, this one's for you guys

i want lamar odom on the knicks. real, real, real bad…

/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \

by stingy d on Jan 17, 2012 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Have you read about Odom's offseason?

A family member died. And then shortly after he chauffer hit a motorocycle and the bike killed someone else. So Odom is depressed and playing horribly.

by mindfeck on Jan 17, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

man

that poor guy’s whole life has been hard, not just this past off-season.

its the type of stuff that broke eddy curry.

nevertheless, i would love lamar odom to be on the knicks.

/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \

by stingy d on Jan 17, 2012 11:34 AM EST up reply actions  

and yo, jared jeffries, for real

when he’s on the floor, with shumpert and chandler, i’m actually frightened at whats possible.

those three hound you endlessly and (more important) effectively. put (the good version of) toney douglas in that mix… yowza!

if we won, jared would have gotten a lot more credit. and deservedly so, he makes the matchup zone way more intense.

/// aighttho.com \\\/// twitter.com/aighttho \\\

by stingy d on Jan 16, 2012 11:33 PM EST reply actions  

I just hope Amar'e

isn’t happy enough to mistakingly start playing WITH Nash. He wouldn’t do that, right? ….Right?

posi..tive ....thoughts..?
@krishhhayyy

by gymtanlandry on Jan 16, 2012 11:43 PM EST reply actions  

nate robinson redux

/// aighttho.com \\/// twitter.com/aighttho \\

by stingy d on Jan 16, 2012 11:49 PM EST up reply actions  

baron needs to get on the court asap

we just wasted a month and a half of amare stoudemire’s production.

by Fabfreebird on Jan 17, 2012 12:45 AM EST reply actions  

I really do love Amar'e

but “production”

posi..tive ....thoughts..?
@krishhhayyy

by gymtanlandry on Jan 17, 2012 12:47 AM EST up reply actions  

I feel like we're wasting a lot of everybody's time

in various different ways. This team has talented players, but we aren’t the youngest of the talented teams. which is why taking responsibility, as llewis13 said in the game thread, is so important. This team has some time for patience, but absolutely none to waste. Let’s get it going!

by mp987987 on Jan 17, 2012 1:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Wasted a month and a half of MY time too.

That counts doesn’t it? Hopes were so high to be struggling as we are, I would have much rather skipped the first month of this.

by Zhantee on Jan 17, 2012 9:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

It would suck to have been to the Finals and won it all with this group…

by superturboultra on Jan 17, 2012 2:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Hey i meant this season. and imma keep saying it until their record is better than ours.

by lololol on Jan 17, 2012 2:29 AM EST up reply actions  

If Ainge had half-brain he would trade Ray Allen to Chicago for their 2012 pick and/or Omer Asik.

And if Gar Forman had half a brain he would make that trade too because the chalk outline of Rip Hamilton(has someone here put it) ain’t going to be enuff to offset last year’s poor shooting in the playoffs. Garnett? I know it sounds crazy but I can see Miami offering their 2012 1st rounder for him. Can’t see any non-contending team offering any meaningful assets for him. P.S. The Celtics bombed not picking Marshon Brooks…Ainge you officially suck again after a 3 year reprieve.

by bababooey2 on Jan 17, 2012 2:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Ainge got lucky

He got Garnett and Allen, those were his two good moves. But he lucked into Rondo being a good point guard – if that hadn’t happened those guys would not have won a championship. And he’s made shitty moves since then.

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 17, 2012 10:05 AM EST up reply actions  

now that, blackhova...

is a [] []

/// aighttho.com \\/// twitter.com/aighttho \\

by stingy d on Jan 17, 2012 8:10 AM EST up reply actions  

good lord

i’d trade everybody for him

/// aighttho.com \\/// twitter.com/aighttho \\

by stingy d on Jan 17, 2012 9:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Are you guys serious?

Really what is up with all the whining. Geesh. It takes time for a team to gel, it takes time for Baron Davis to heal. You guys are crying about games in January. Really? Everyone with any sense realizes that this team was going to struggle and not get going until February. The moves that were made this off-season will not really start to take shape until March folks. The idea is to go through a little pain now, to hopefully win more in May and possibly June. Geesh people, really I picked the Knicks to be 3-7 after 10 games and 8-12 after 20. I am still standing by my 45-21 prediction and the 3rd seed. So buck up people. Geesh!

by Robert Curre on Jan 17, 2012 12:37 PM EST reply actions  

if we were heading into december

people would feel the same way. knick fans are a fickle bunch.

i’m right there with you tho. i’m surprised by how poorly toney and amar’e are playing, and i’m surprised by how far the defense has already come. i’m also surprised by harrelson’s shooting ability- which should only get more consistent.

but thats about it. also- we’re treading water- not getting blown out every single game.

/// aighttho.com \\/// twitter.com/aighttho \\

by stingy d on Jan 17, 2012 12:41 PM EST up reply actions  

i try to talk people off the edge all day on this site

i have no clue why. maybe i should be a social worker.

/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \

by stingy d on Jan 17, 2012 12:50 PM EST up reply actions  

while it's a very mature perspective...

are you saying if you were the GM, you’d be confident in chemistry of the 2 stars? and the overall play/effort of our team/coach?

and you’re saying you’d take our current lineup over say… felton, shump, gallo, stat and mozgov with wilson chandler, TD, landry and jorts on the bench? i know i know… that’s old news and you can’t predict what would have happened, but as fans who follow the knicks over time and through changes, assessing where they were, where they are and we’re they appear to be headed is par for the course? it’s what being a fan is partially about.

my point is that while many of us may be conveying highly reactive and early negativity, it’s not totally irrational to have serious doubts about the mental, and physical make-up of our current line-up. many teams with many new faces have played with more consistency and better results… which feeds the disillusionment.

by bucketsncents on Jan 17, 2012 5:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I am living in the real World

we cannot revise history, so yes I will take the current line up over what you mentioned because it is the line up the Knicks have. Chemistry does not happen over night and there are no short cuts for it. Here are the Knicks problems in a nutshell:
1. Lack of decent point guard play. While you do not need a point guard to average 20pts and 10 assts a game to be successful, you do need competent play at the point. You need that guy who can run the offense, settle the team down when it gets ragged, and get players the ball where they need it and when to be effective. The Knicks have not had that. Douglas and Shumpert do not have the experience to do it and Bibby while he has tried in his brief stints on the floor, does not have the ability to be productive for a long enough duration to make a difference. So improving the point guard play will make a difference.

2. The Bench is underachieving: The Knicks do not have world beaters on the bench but they can play better than they have. Douglas is in the midst of his worst shooting performance ever. Not just in the NBA, but college as well. Bibby is playing his way into shape, Jeffries has been hurt, Walker has been Walker, and Jorts is a rookie which means he’ll look good one day and confused the next. You need consistent bench play to play well. The teams you mentioned with new faces do not have 8 new ones and most have benches that are playing well right now. Douglas is a better shooter than his numbers right now, so he is going to get going, Bibby will get into shape and be able to play and practice enough to get in rhythm, Davis in the rotation will either help the bench or it will send Landry to the bench where he might play better. Jeffries will continue to be Jeffries and Jorts as long as he continues to defend will be fine. But it will take time.
3. The Knicks do not practice offense enough. D’Antoni is gambling that he can steal enough wins by devoting virtualy all of his limited practice time to defense and relying on the improvements on that side of the ball to win games, until he has a point guard who can run his offense.
4. The defense has improved but the Knicks are still not good enough on that side of the ball to win consistently with it, especially with a stagnant offense and poor bench play.

Lastly there are still not 8 teams in the eastern conference better than the Knicks. So they will steal enough wins to stay in striking range of the playoffs while they figure things out. Davis will play this season, Douglas and a couple of guys struggling now will play better. The defense will continue to improve and having a legit experienced point guard will improve the offense. In short be patient. It is January, championships are not won or lost in January but in June. I rather the team struggle now and work through what needs to be worked through than struggle in May and June.

by Robert Curre on Jan 18, 2012 11:12 AM EST up reply actions   3 recs

thank you currence

"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy

by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jan 18, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

East Is Bad

Chicago, Indiana and Miami have a chance to come out of the east.
Round pegs in square holes is what D’Antoni is all about and it will never work with this team.
Get rid of the coach asap and the whole staff.
Making the playoffs is not a accomplishment for the starved true Knicks.
ALL IN or ALL OUT!
D’Antoni seats on the bench with his arrogant attitude just thinking what the fuck I am getting 8 millions dollars for doing B.S.
Sad to watch from somebody whom really cares.

by Dziedzic on Jan 18, 2012 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

if by "real world" you mean the state of things as they are now...

than i do not understand your unadulterated optimism. the state of things now, with this roster, is not a promising one. for many of the reasons you mentioned.

1. yes, we do not have, and need a competent PG to set the pace, push the tempo, demand off the ball movement and help melo break his habit of stopping flow… however, the likelihood of finding one, and being able to pay one in the future has been significantly compromised by our decision to bring in melo. we’re awaiting baron davis as our savior, which is a risky, though understandably necessary proposition. it’s also a reason to have doubts about our future just as much as a reason to have hope.

2. no, our bench is not underachieving. it is as you say… what it is. wildly inconsistent. and similarly to 1. our ability to fortify our bench is limited by cap issues. yes, if baron pans out, there may be a domino effect that bumps more inconsistent players (walker) out of the rotation, but this is a big if. we’re very short on shooters, penetrators and ball handlers… with or without baron. jefferies and balkman are limited and similar. walker is… walker and harrellson shows promise. TD is our best shot at a bench player, IF he can recover from this awful tailspin, but he is one guy. and if landry ends up there, he’s going to have to re-discvoer (or discover for the first time) his offensive chops.

3. sure practice time has been limited, but there are elements of the game that do not require practice time. these guys are professionals and should already know that standing around the perimeter, not cutting, not passing and relying on one scorer is not smart basketball. sure, set plays may be last to show themselves, but the basics should be visible regardless of time… and the coach should be held accountable for demanding this. i love that coach is focusing on defense… and my guess (yes, it’s a guess) is that he was focusing on defense because he was assuming our players (especially melo) would already know the basic principles of effective offense (ball movement, player movement and pacing). apparently, they don’t. woops.

4. yes, i see improvements in our defense.

and right now, in our current world, the real world, there are 7 teams as good or better than us (miami, chicago, orlando, indiana, sixers, atlanta, and cleveland)… and we’ve lost to a bunch of the teams that are worse, and younger than us with the same amount of practice time. maybe we climb the standings, maybe we sneak in and gel in time to make a run… or maybe we implode.

look currence, i hear your rational thinking, but it’s just as possible that the “realists” unjustifiably have their head in the clouds with this team as it is that the “cynics” have their heads unjustifiably in the toilet.

we’re all hoping, but to say one perspective is more realistic than the other simply isn’t justified. we’re 6-7 having lost to awful teams and gotten blown out a bunch… these are not good signs.

by bucketsncents on Jan 18, 2012 5:47 PM EST up reply actions  

i am just not getting my expectations up . ..

they look sooo bad. if things turn around, great. otherwise, whatever. i am not even going to watch anymore games until baron is healthy. too ugly and stressful plus i have a lot of work to do the next few weeks.

Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate

by knickswin on Jan 17, 2012 10:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Talking 'em off the ledge

Expectations are high and indeed folks are losing their shizza a bit early. The offense will surely be operating smoother with Baron Davis running point yet…the idea that Baron Davis, his back, his Orson Wells eating habits and Jekyll and Hyde work ethic holds the key to the season makes me want to barf.

by giantg on Jan 17, 2012 7:13 PM EST reply actions  

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