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Around SBN: Troubled Yankees Join Troubled Red Sox In Last Place

Suns 91, Knicks 88: "This is like watching the Washington Generals play the Washington Generals."

I'm fairly grumpy right now, and I wouldn't even say it's because the Knicks lost. It's more because we knew the Knicks were going to lose long before this game ended and we knew more or less how they were going to do it. We knew they'd switch on Phoenix pick-and-rolls and fail to cover the subsequent mismatches. We knew they'd go iso at the worst possible times and, when they didn't, would stumble over their own momentum with missed open shots and untimely turnovers.

So, here I am. I feel unhappy, but not the rabid, blood-boiling kind of unhappy I'm accustomed to feeling when the Knicks lose. Shannon Brown's big shot that pretty much decided the game was a corner three that bounced off the rim and high off the backboard before falling through...and I hardly batted an eyelash. More than anything, I'm mad that I just sat for two and a half hours watching a shitty, boring movie without a single surprising plot point and an ending I'd guessed well in advance. Like Russ put it in the game thread, this was a battle of two feeble, Generals-esque teams just trading mistakes until time ran out. Really rancid stuff.

Take the jump for a few quick notes.

Star-divide

- I will begin these notes on a bright note: This was by far the Landriest game of the season, at least on offense. Landry Fields looked confident and aggressive off the dribble, and stepped into some quality makes both around the rim and from the mid-range. He also grabbed six rebounds, made several useful passes to create easy baskets, and kicked off transition by forcing a couple turnovers. Fields ALSO missed some crucial open threes and had his usual trouble chasing opposing shooting guards, but it was still probably his best complete game of the season.

- Carmelo Anthony played quite a bad game of basketball. It's admirable of him to persevere through a sore ankle and wrist, but he needs to adapt his decision-making accordingly. And by that I mean that going iso and pulling 22 times when 50 percent of the hands touching the basketball are incapacitated is exceedingly unwise. And they weren't even good shots. Melo also had 11 solid rebounds and 4 assists, and I wish that was all he did. Cool three-pointer to keep it close in the final minute, though, if you're into that sort of thing.

- Amar'e Stoudemire also played a pretty bad game. It's funny/horrifying how there are instances during each of these dreadful performances in which Amar'e drains a jumper or two or makes a savvy move to get to the basket and I'm all like "YES, THAT. HE'S ROLLING NOW." and then the next time down he goes back to bulldozing planted defenders or spinning himself dizzy and air-balling contested side-arm floaters. I'm pretty much resigned to Amar'e playing like buttocks until Baron Davis is healthy, which is a pretty weird mental place to be.

- Least favorite Amar'e play: When he faces up his defender on the baseline with a few inches of room, then drives toward the baseline as if he expects to just blow by the guy, only to be forced under the basket so that he has to throw the ball off the defender's leg to avoid a turnover. Pretty much nobody, no matter how athletic they are, can just cruise by a halfway decent defender whose feet are completely set and who has plenty of time and space to react to a baseline drive. The only plausible explanation here is that Amar'e spends so much time scurrying out of the way when folks make face-up drives (see Hakim Warrick's blow-by dunk in the third quarter) against him that he expects them to return the favor.

- Iman Shumpert was pretty feckless offensively until the second half. He dawdled and deferred all game long (despite being guarded by Steve Nash, who looks like a furry little child next to Shump), then went on to hit two major threes to keep things close down the stretch. His defense was the usual: A few brilliant strips and shot contests on mismatches, and plenty of moments in which he let a small, feisty guard (the aforementioned furry child) shake free for open shots while he got caught on screens.

- I'd need to re-watch it to confirm, (and I'm definitely not re-watching that game) but I think Toney Douglas may have defended Nash pretty well. They seemed to switch less when Douglas was on the floor, which meant less open shots for the rest of the Suns. That's pretty much the extent of Toney's success in this game.

- Tyson Chandler tried to defend everybody he could and ripped down 17 rebounds. I salute you, Tyson.

- Speaking of which, fun moment: Channing Frye fouls Chandler under the basket HARD, and somehow the play ends with Chandler upright and Frye crumpled on the ground in pain.

- There were plenty of bad shots and miscues, but it's also baffling how inaccurate these Knicks are on good, high-percentage plays, especially when there's momentum building. Seriously, whenever a Knick makes a special, crowd-rousing play and you feel their luck changing, they make some sort of rudimentary boner to squander that energy. A few examples, all from the fourth quarter:

1. Down one, Amar'e Stoudemire, after a bad turnover, makes a BRILLIANT chase-down block of Shannon Brown. The crowd goes wild. The action heads the other way and the ball finds Fields wide open in the corner...and he rims out the three. The Suns come back the other way and Robin Lopez scores over Amar'e.

2. Down three, Carmelo Anthony makes a gorgeous drive to the basket (one of his few) and just flubs the lay-up. The ball goes the other way and Shannon Brown leaks out for an easy dunk to put Phoenix back up 5.

3. Down three, the Knicks make one defensive stop but give up the offensive rebound. Then they make ANOTHER defensive stop, but Shumpert and Stoudemire grapple for the same rebound and the ball slips away. On the third attempt of the possession, Steve Nash sinks a jumper to put Phoenix up five.

- The switching defense has worked at times. It did not work in this game.

- Ronnie Price airballed a three. Clyde: "The Price is NOT right!".

- Mike D'Antoni, wearing a microphone, was caught screaming a lot. He also did quite a bit of hand-swirling. Lots of hand-swirls. It's a versatile gesture.

- Statistics: The Knicks out-rebounded the Suns 54-38, including 18 offensive boards (thanks, Tyson). The Knicks shot 20-30 from the free throw line. If they'd won, I would have pointed to the former stat. Since they lost, I'll point to the latter. [points]

So, yeah. I know not everybody's with me, which is understandable, but I'm resigned to sitting and waiting for time and/or Baron Davis to solve this team's inability to make their shots. I don't see another option.The defense is a separate concern, but we've seen them adapt to their own switch issues before. It's the offense that sucks, and that sucking shan't be expected to dissolve any time soon, no matter the quality of the opponent.

Up next are the Bucks on Friday and the Nuggets on Saturday. That Nuggets game is going to be miserable.

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Mitigating factor:

Felton and Chandler will not be Nuggets. Al Harrington will.

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 19, 2012 9:33 AM EST up reply actions  

I really might not even try to watch it if Chandler were on the team.

Way too many memories if both he and Danilo are there.

Loving what Gallo is doing this year

by jlaw on Jan 19, 2012 10:10 AM EST up reply actions  

Gallo hasn't really even hit his own stride this year...

until recently, was REALLY struggling shooting the 3-ball. The fact he was doing well without that says a lot about how his overall game is progressing.

by Zhantee on Jan 19, 2012 10:18 AM EST up reply actions  

It was honestly the same with us too

When the 3 ball wasn’t falling, he still got to the line 7-8 times per game at least.

by Joamiq on Jan 19, 2012 10:27 AM EST up reply actions  

True... maybe not at first...

but as the season went along, he really did learn how to get to the line in his stumbling, awkward looking yet lovable drive kinda way. ;-)

by Zhantee on Jan 19, 2012 10:42 AM EST up reply actions  

ditto....

posi..tive ....thoughts..?
@krishhhayyy

by gymtanlandry on Jan 19, 2012 12:29 AM EST up reply actions  

I think I'll be rooting for the Denver Knicks

I HATE Dolan, and that stupid trade, there was a team there that we spent 3 years building that that asshole f…ing ruined

by RichardVincentGuerin on Jan 19, 2012 3:15 AM EST up reply actions  

100% agree

my friends and i feel the same way. and we felt it at the time of the trade

by jectalo on Jan 19, 2012 3:25 PM EST up reply actions  

sigh...

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Jan 19, 2012 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

I think Toney is literally the only player on the team who fights thru the screens

Everyone else is just content to switch themselves into oblivion. That’s why we wind up with Shumpert guarding Gortat one-on-one and A’mare trying to stop Nash off the dribble.

by Mikel L on Jan 18, 2012 11:23 PM EST reply actions  

DWTDD

Don’t think I’ve ever seen any team switch so willingly regardless of the match-up. Patience wearing thin.. I mean, really!? What is so hard about guarding the person you’re assigned to? This is getting stupid.

Did this dude just did this?

by Rubbercons on Jan 19, 2012 12:00 AM EST up reply actions  

Had the Knicks hit one or two more baskets

We’d not be talking about the defense. C’mon, they held ‘em to 91. Amar’e and Melo were 12-44.

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 19, 2012 9:35 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Despite the overall improved defense, this is the thing I'm most pissed at D'Antoni about

It’s the simplest thing to coach. You can’t shoot for your players. You can’t make decisions for them. But you can instruct them not to switch every single time at the slightest hint of a pick.

by Joamiq on Jan 19, 2012 10:29 AM EST up reply actions  

It's obvious he's instructing them TOO switch on every play.

It’s not like they are doing it out of laziness. It’s their gameplan and they are stick with it, even when it’s not working. This is a strategy the coaching staff thinks will work.

by ToshiroMifune on Jan 19, 2012 10:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Give the man a cigar!

You are right Flossy, Mike D’Antoni is not coaching the defense, Mike Woodson is. However, I hate to tell people so, but I will, it doesn’t matter what a coach draws up, it is the players who need to execute it, now when they don’t you get bad defense. Coaches in the NBA have their uses but 98% of what goes in to wins and losses in the NBA is strictly on the players. However the guy you responded to is right the blame goes to D’Antoni. Woodson coaches the defense but D’Antoni approves his defensive plans and strategies. So at the end of the day it is D’Antoni’s fault even if it is Woodson doing a piss poor job of coaching and the players doing a piss poor job of executing. That is the nature of the job. If the team wins the stars get the credit, if the team loses it is the Head coach’s fault.

by Robert Curre on Jan 19, 2012 10:50 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Agree with both of you

It truly has become a player driven league now a days.

My Wife is a Patriot's fan...

by Giantssincesix on Jan 19, 2012 11:10 AM EST up reply actions  

Honestly...

our D has been pretty good. Yes, it’s maddening to switch as often as we do and sometimes it doesn’t work. But if we don’t switch, trying to fight thru screens might not always work either.

Could the switching be a way of protecting Chandler from foul trouble. Ya figure… a switch prevents a quick drive and more likely gives up an open jump shot. If you try to fight through the screen and aren’t successful, an immediate drive is usually the result, meaning Tyson will try to protect the rim and pick up more fouls.

But again, our D (just look at our ratings) hasn’t been bad at all. If our O is anything near where it should be, we’d be talking about how our defense is winning games for us.

by Zhantee on Jan 19, 2012 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Switching has nothing to do with Bigs

but perimeter guys. When perimeter guys do not get over the top of picks, then you have to switch. And as a side note you get over the top of picks and fight through screens. You do not fight through picks. Now for those of you that do not know a screen happens when one player without the ball tries to impede the movement of a defender guarding a man without the ball. You can fight through a screen because since your man does not have the ball you have time to recover and get into good defensive position if you hurry. A pick is when you impede the movement of the player guarding the man with the ball. You never fight through a pick ever. You either go over or go under but the task is to avoid contact with the man setting the pick. If you try to fight through a pick, you get hung up and the man with the ball gets an advantage unless you switch. When the Knicks perimeter defenders do a better job not getting hung up, the Knicks will switch less.

by Robert Curre on Jan 19, 2012 10:57 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Thanks for the lesson...

but with some saying that the coaching staff is driving when to switch on D, I’m just saying that maybe they’re being instructed to do that to help avoid quicker drives to the hoop. Chandler is such a huge part of our D, so to protect him from fouls, players are told to switch often.

by Zhantee on Jan 19, 2012 11:02 AM EST up reply actions  

It's gotta be a coaches decision

Yes, I am a Giants fan. Now that we got that out of the way....
IMPEACH DOLAN!!!!
The Big Boy Cometh....Team Jacobs
Marines say Oorah; BBVer's say SUAMBP! say it with me - Suuaahmbp!!!!

by wilddre22 on Jan 19, 2012 11:05 AM EST via Android app up reply actions  

Games like this make me realize

all the blogging I could ever do will not change the outcome of a game. Thats a bad place for a blogger to be.

by mp987987 on Jan 19, 2012 12:04 AM EST reply actions  

excellent summary

the only other bit worth mentioning: mike breen is really, REALLY anti-texting.

but honestly, the key to this game was that melo really sucked. we might have been better off if he didn’t play. hopefully he gets over his injuries soon.

by latrell chokewell on Jan 19, 2012 12:07 AM EST reply actions  

one of the reasons

I strongly oppose trade talk is cause no on us gonna give us a can of beans for Stat right now. He’s bound to get better but we wouldn’t get 1/4 of his value now. He’s momentarily our Elton Brand.

"Umm - it was - you know - umm - a good game. You know."-
Patrick Ewing (my Knick Hero)

by Ren Carlos on Jan 19, 2012 12:41 AM EST via Android app up reply actions  

wow...

not as bad as Brand, but yea his value is plummeting

You just got Tysoned!!!!!!

by Jason Bee on Jan 19, 2012 9:04 AM EST up reply actions  

I honestly think

STAT is the worst player on the knicks right now.

His D may be the worst Defense I have ever seen. He literally pulled up his hands like a T-Rex on that Warrik dunk just handing it to him.

His O is maddeningly awful. He has some good moments, but him taking the ball and driving it into 4 defenders just to get demoralization blocked is the quickest way to ruin momentum.

I know he has the skills to be better, but right now… he is just bad at basketball.

I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."

by gbaked on Jan 19, 2012 10:00 AM EST up reply actions  

yea it is frustrating watching him at times

I knew he was a bad defender, but it just seems so much worse

You just got Tysoned!!!!!!

by Jason Bee on Jan 19, 2012 10:09 AM EST up reply actions  

I get that he needs a quality PG to really shine

and its a valid excuse.

But if he is a true superstar, he should at least be able to not suck without one. I dont think that is an unreasonable request from a max contract player.

I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."

by gbaked on Jan 19, 2012 10:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Yep.

I’m almost starting to feel that he really MIGHT be better coming off the bench until Baron is back. Granted, I don’t think it will ever happen… but that might be the best thing for him right now.

And not saying that Jorts is ready to step in with the starters… but in general, his style seems to be SO much better of a fit, especially with his unexpected shooting from the outside. Even if that doesn’t continue, he still seems to offer more of what we need in that starting unit.

When our offense has been our biggest issue by far, it sounds weird to say having Stat start on the bench might be for the best since offense his by far his greatest strength. But for now (and it would only be temporary), it might make the most sense.

by Zhantee on Jan 19, 2012 10:23 AM EST up reply actions  

If Jorts turned the ball over as much as Amar'e does

He’d be yanked right down to Erie.

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 19, 2012 10:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Yep

And that doesn’t even count Amare’s “shot attempts” that have no chance of going in.

by Zhantee on Jan 19, 2012 10:43 AM EST up reply actions  

ugh Max money to a one dimensional player

also not helping the notion that his a large part of his success was due to Steve Nash

by lololol on Jan 19, 2012 10:23 AM EST up reply actions  

His success was due to having a PG, period

He managed to do just fine with Felton, who is an average NBA starting PG at best.

by flossy on Jan 19, 2012 10:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Is Carmelo still on the team? Is he still going to call for an Iso with 20 seconds on the shot clock?

And after holding the ball is he still gonna more often than not take a low percentage shot? If so then it would not work. We have what we have, the smart move is to fix it. And believe it or not all of this is fixable.

by Robert Curre on Jan 19, 2012 10:22 AM EST up reply actions  

It's fixable...

but doing that needs the players full buy-in… and I’m not sure certain players are willing to do that.

by Zhantee on Jan 19, 2012 10:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Baron will get them to buy in

and if Carmelo doesn’t he won’t get the ball. And actually, it will be OK, because Baron will pass the ball to Amar’e in position to score, so he will be on Baron’s side.

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 19, 2012 10:31 AM EST up reply actions  

In fact

it is the strong desire to win that is fueling Melo and Amar’e’s bad shot attempt mania. They are trying desperately to win. In fact, they should care a little less about winning today and a little more about building the chemistry and teamwork they need to win tomorrow and the day after that and in the playoffs against realy strong teams.

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 19, 2012 11:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Do you see Melo totally abandoning his iso's if it's determined to be better for the team?

I don’t disagree that they all want to win. Whether it be simple habit, preference or whatever… I don’t see Melo suddenly never doing an iso again if asked not to.

by Zhantee on Jan 19, 2012 11:04 AM EST up reply actions  

I truly hope so...

but as with the chicken or the egg… what comes first: the wins or the no iso’s? lol

by Zhantee on Jan 19, 2012 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

Gotta have trust and patience

It’s obviously not easy for Melo to give up those isos.

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 19, 2012 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

It's not a question of "never again"

It’s a question of, is that the foundational play of our entire offense. Which it cannot be, in order for us to win. However in certain situations a Melo ISO is the best shot you’re gonna get.

by flossy on Jan 19, 2012 11:18 AM EST up reply actions  

I can't watch the Knicks anymore

Literally can’t do it. It’s first time, and I fully expect only time I will ever say, “Thank you Time Warner.”

by giantg on Jan 19, 2012 12:19 AM EST reply actions  

but thank Dolan

in my estimation of all the blather i read, this one is on him

by mp987987 on Jan 19, 2012 12:27 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm upset just thinkin about that Nuggets game.

Considering not watching it to avoid the pain.

posi..tive ....thoughts..?
@krishhhayyy

by gymtanlandry on Jan 19, 2012 12:35 AM EST reply actions  

People should be watching the Clipper's right now on NBA Tv to see how infectious CP3's passing and court vision have been on the Clippers.

He’s out with a hamstring pull and even when Billups is on the bench they still move the ball around like the Harlem Globetrotters. People are truly underestimating the influence B.Davis will have.

by bababooey2 on Jan 19, 2012 12:56 AM EST reply actions  

watching

the Clips are my west coast version of what i wish the knicks would be. Not the favorite, but always good for an upset. Underrated and overperforming. So you’re saying there’s hope, and I’m saying hell yeah let’s stay positive

by mp987987 on Jan 19, 2012 1:07 AM EST up reply actions  

The Clips have 3 point guards that are better then any we have

They have balance and depth and are fun to watch, sort of like what the Knicks were the first 1/2 of last season

by RichardVincentGuerin on Jan 19, 2012 3:18 AM EST up reply actions  

depth at the PG position

lara flynn boyle skinny at ever other position

by blackhova on Jan 19, 2012 9:29 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

this game sucked

especially being there in person

by dank7 on Jan 19, 2012 1:02 AM EST reply actions  

Oof

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 19, 2012 9:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Should have finished reading first

Seth pretty much said the same thing. Frustrating loss, but its what we have all come to expect from this team. We need Davis back, and we need him to play like an elite PG. Otherwise this team is in a lot of trouble.

by Dylan87 on Jan 19, 2012 1:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Also David Lee would

So there’s that.

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 19, 2012 9:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Kinda glad I didn't really watch this game until the last minute or so.

Also kind of funny that the tone of these recaps are exactly the same as they have been for the for few years. Just biding my time until March when we’ll REALLY have a feel for this team and what it can do.

I just want this team to be like the Giants fighting though a disappointing regular season to finish strong and go into the playoffs with massive amounts of momentum. Right now we’re the Jets with a lot of big talk and fingers pointing at our QB on the floor. We’re the fucking Mets of the NBA.

Fish Fingers give me a break.

by GAx on Jan 19, 2012 1:13 AM EST reply actions  

Everybody turn on ESPN

this game is insane, and we all deserve a good game

by mp987987 on Jan 19, 2012 1:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Chauncey Billups.

Ah. I hate this franchise sometimes.

Formerly known as "GangGrizzle".

by B.Rush on Jan 19, 2012 1:29 AM EST reply actions  

It's funny because

If Grunwald hadn’t picked up his extension Billups would likely still be here — considering no interesting teams would have paid him more than the 5 million exception.

Talk about not looking at the immediate future.

by erniesto on Jan 19, 2012 2:40 AM EST up reply actions  

you never know

he might have held a grudge and not wanted to come back

2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!

by astromets on Jan 19, 2012 2:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Maybe

But who cares? Win/Win

by erniesto on Jan 19, 2012 2:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Let's put it this way

If we had Billups and not Tyson, we’d be complaining about allowing 110 points per game to opponents, while we score 108.

But we have Tyson and we don’t have Billups, so we’re complaining about only scoring like 85 ppg, but kinda happy about only allowing like 90 ppg.

Truthfully, I’d rather take the defense, cause at least right now we’re actually somewhat forcing opponents to grind it out. Once the offense clicks, that will be a good quality to have

KNICKS NOW
http://nyknicksnow.blogspot.com/ - check it out!

by WSD on Jan 19, 2012 10:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Plus we have Baron coming in a week or two...

Think a lot of our offensive woes are going to be helped by having a point guard…

by robk on Jan 19, 2012 10:40 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm on the record as saying that this team would be lucky to be .500 by the time Baron Davis is ready to go

I can screen cap the text message and post it here… Having said this, yes, none of these putrid offensive struggles have been particularly surprising to me. The games like this have just been categorized under the ‘lack of point guard’ section of my brain, and I’ve just looked to the next game to see if the effort at least can be maintained, which, so far, I believe it has. We’re at least lucky enough to have Tyson Chandler doing some defense and some players who can score in iso, which has been enough to at least get us these 6 wins, but I think it’s clear that this style of ball is not above .500 ball.

So yeah, and I’ve said this before, Baron Davis, get well soon bro.

by BJabs on Jan 19, 2012 1:53 AM EST reply actions  

This is a funny argument

Because there is a point guard on this team named Bibby who played serious minutes on the East championship team last year and is riding pine here.

What makes people think that Davis is going to change much is beyond me. The Knicks system is broken and there isn’t a soul in that locker room who wants to fix it right now.

by erniesto on Jan 19, 2012 2:45 AM EST up reply actions  

From what I've seen

Baron has pretty much taken the role of “fixer”. He genuinely cares about this team and I really think that he’s gonna make this thing work. Dude is CONSTANTLY picking coaches brain. I was at todays game and Baron was always pointing things out the Shump and TD whenever he had the chance and was also one of the most vocal street clothes player i’ve seen in a while.

He won’t come in here and throw up 20 and 10 but he’s gonna make STAT and Melo and this whole team MUCH better.

by Fabfreebird on Jan 19, 2012 2:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Bibby, even in his prime, wasn't really a pure point guard.

Plus, I think he’s riding pine because he’s got a knee thing.

The Knicks have several players that really really really need a point guard setting them up to score. And the coach doesn’t know how to teach them how to play offense without a talented point running the show.

So yeah, it’s not that Baron is going to be so stupendously great, it’s just that he will be in charge out there and have a clue. Most teams have a guy like that.

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 19, 2012 9:44 AM EST up reply actions  

that made me very happy to watch

this offense is like watchin the mark sanchez jets offense and then wen u watch another nfl game it looks sooooo much better thats wats happening here

by abe88 on Jan 19, 2012 11:34 AM EST up reply actions  

That East championship team wasn't a championship team because Bibby was on it

Bibby is who he is, and he is a shell of his former self. Appreciate him for what he brings, but that likely doesn’t include being the starting PG with elite play-making skills that the Knicks desperately need.

__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Jan 19, 2012 9:52 AM EST up reply actions  

It.s crazy about Stat and he has this way he just pisses me off with. He will try to dribble and then loses the ball because of a steal and then has this look on his face like “he wasn’t supposed to steal it” I guess he juts expects them to watch him. He did it in the laker game earlier this season where he dribbled down the court as if he was a pointguard and only to have Kobe chasing him and steals the ball from him. Me and my brother are yelling “stop dribbling you fool” but he ain’t listening. He then looks at his coach as if to say "why did he just steal it.’ He just been sucking this year unfortunately and there are flashes of his old self only to ruin it by bricking more open jumpers. I mean for sake of whatever but if he just made a few of those shots in each game we could be winning.

Carmelo is playing injured and our role players aren’t consistent but what’s the excuse for Stat? I hope he is just rusty and nothing worse. Hopefully he will snap out of this ugly funk and play like he has in the past and last year.

In other news, my boy, Chauncey, had another great game with another “big shot” while he was being mocked over by some fans. Chauncey will always be a winner and I will always root for him and still am thankful he helped us beat the Heat last year. Too bad it didn’t work out for us.

by RASHADI on Jan 19, 2012 4:06 AM EST reply actions  

Both Stat and Carmelo

are a little full of themselves. Carmelo can’t feel his wrist and can’t get touch on his shot but he shoots 22 shots anyway. Amar’e thinks he is a one on one iso scorer and he isn’t. He never has been. But when he lowers his head and drives into traffic and loses the ball, he comes up blaming someone else, be it the ref or whatever. He should blame himself for trying to do something he’s not that good at.

Those guys are very talented but they’re a little dopey when it comes to basketball. Seriously, glaring at a ref trying to get a call when you should be getting back on defense… trying to take over a possession instead of trying to work with your teammates… a few of those a game can mean the difference between winning and losing.

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 19, 2012 9:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Agree as well, just to add....

When Amare dunks, he always stops and poses at the crowd for a second. I wonder where his man on defense is when this is going on….just saying.

When he blocks a shot, it has become an event, where he does the same thing. Only to get manhandled by Robin Lopez or toasted by Hakim Warrick,

Any decent post defender could draw an offensive foul or strip the ball from him when he tries to do his “blow by” move. The problem is, he can’t really do it like he used to and he’s missing his jumper. He doesn’t board well or play D or set picks for anyone else…so he becomes invisible.

by Oakleytookmylunchmoney on Jan 19, 2012 10:03 AM EST up reply actions  

the way we're playing, im scared to watch the Bucks game

can we start the season over when Biddy gets healthy?

by blackhova on Jan 19, 2012 7:23 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

was at the game

switching, WTF!?

i feel as though in their minds they think “oh look, im switching that means im playing defense”

by dank7 on Jan 19, 2012 8:35 AM EST reply actions  

Seriously, man the fuck up and fight through a screen

Or if not, go under the screen and come running back out to contest. This isn’t like an advanced basketball formula, it’s pretty much what every other basketball team does if they’re not switch-aholics

KNICKS NOW
http://nyknicksnow.blogspot.com/ - check it out!

by WSD on Jan 19, 2012 10:42 AM EST up reply actions  

UGGGH!!!!!!

You do not fight through a pick and since the plays you are complaining about came on the ball, they are picks not screens. And you never, ever fight through a pick, that is called getting hung up and that causes switching. The idea is to avoid contact with the man setting the pick you do that by going over or under. Now since we were playing PHX you never go under a pick with Steve nash on the floor that is the same as just saying here is 3 pts Steve. Our guys are terrible at getting over the top, so the result is they get caught, and the Bigs (yes it is the Bigs who do this, call for the switch) job one is to stop ball, if Chandler and Amare didn’t switch onto Nash then he would get lay ups because the fool guarding him is in the trail position. Switching is accepted defensive strategy and every coach uses it. The problem though is when you make one switch you need to quickly make two more, the job is to get big back on big and little back on little before the opposition can take advantage of mismatches. It is the secondary switching that the Knicks flubbed last night on a pretty consistent basis.

by Robert Curre on Jan 19, 2012 11:07 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Despite my use of the wrong terminology, the point remains the same, coach

Yes, when it’s Steve Nash, don’t go under cause he’ll torch you from deep, but that’s why you either fight through the screen, or the big man shows for a second while the guard who’s defending Nash either goes under or gets over the screen to get back to Nash.

Nash is special because he can still take you off the drive, find the big man rolling to the basket, or shoot the 3 all while that happens. But not every player is Steve Nash.

If it’s a screen (off the ball), then you shouldn’t rellay have to switch unless it’s trying to free up a good 3-point shooter like Ray Allen. Otherwise, it’s fairly easy to fight through a screen.

And my point was, that every team has to deal with picks and screens and few of them switch as often as the Knicks. That teaches laziness because switching doesn’t require a lot of effort and usually just results in mismatches. At some point you have to get your guards fight over a pick or go under it, while the big man shows, and then hustles back to his own man.

KNICKS NOW
http://nyknicksnow.blogspot.com/ - check it out!

by WSD on Jan 19, 2012 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

switching on defense

is the coach’s way of telling the players “don’t worry. nobody will be held accountable on defense. just put the ball in the hoop.”

problem is that the knicks can’t even do that.

also, am i alone here, or did it seem like the knicks were moving the ball pretty well in the 3rd quarter, even getting some dare i say… layups? but every few possessions melo felt like he hadn’t taken his quote of bad shots and would just chuck up something awful with a guy in his face from 25 ft out. if your wrist hurts, quit chucking up shots!

by llewis13 on Jan 19, 2012 9:07 AM EST reply actions  

quota*

melo hadn’t taken is quotA of bad shots

by llewis13 on Jan 19, 2012 9:07 AM EST up reply actions  

The optimist in me...

says that is Melo trying to become a leader on this team and to put us on his back.

The pessimist says it’s Melo trying to make himself look good while “leading us” to a victory.

by Zhantee on Jan 19, 2012 9:49 AM EST up reply actions  

+1,000,000

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 19, 2012 9:52 AM EST up reply actions  

You have obviously never coached basketball or played it.

read my comments above about why switches happen and how they are properly executed. The problem is not switching the problem is switching must be properly executed to work. There were at least half a dozen times the Knicks switched last night and did it right, the result PHX did not score. But all of you only seem to notice the times when they didn’t and gave up points as a result.

On Melo you are not alone, but he has been doing that his whole career. Geesh let us not act like we have never seen the guy play. Melo is doing what Melo has always done. It is just not as sexy when you have to see it game in and out and not just on ESPN highlights when he is on.

by Robert Curre on Jan 19, 2012 11:11 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Said that...

the D was decent and only looks “poor” because of how bad our offense has been. Our defense is SO much better than last year’s so far… switching or not.

I do disagree with your comment about assuming he “obviously never coached or played basketball”. Don’t know if there’s a need for that kinda thing on here.

by Zhantee on Jan 19, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

When you try to talk like a coach then you should get called on it.

Saying that switching is a coach telling players that they do not have to be accountable on defense is stuck on stupid. EVERY and I do mean Every NBA coach employs switches. If our friend wants to talk like a coach then he would be better served talking about why the switches don’t work. Switching like any other defensive strategy only works when it is not executed properly. Now if he wanted to use switching to criticize the coaches poor in game management for not demanding better execution then he would have a point. But to say that switching means players do not have to play defense, when every coach that has every coached man to man defense at any level has employed switching deserved all the sarcasm I could give him. It is just another sign of the fact that we fans do not know what we are talking about 99% of the time and yet instead of trying to learn we spout of and act like what we said makes sense.

by Robert Curre on Jan 19, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Preach

But the rotations after the switch were too slow many times last game.when shump is guarding lopez on the block there should be a quick rotation to get him off the big man asap.I’m not sure how to best do that (having amare switch with shump who immediately changes with the wing defender or something else) but its gotta be shored up for the defense to be effective

by Kupe on Jan 19, 2012 1:38 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

You are right, aftern the initial switch which is done to stop the ball

There needs to be a secondary switch to get Shumpert off Lopez and onto someone he is better suited to guard. So for example Shump gets caught on a pick, Amare picks up Nash Shump ends up on Lopez his job is to block the passing lane to prevent a quick pass to Lopez rolling to the rim, once that is accomplished he needs to be relieved of duty so to speak. That would have Chandler slide over to take Lopez shump goes back to Nash and Amare has to get to Gortat. Once the switch stops the initial pick and roll then you need to get big back on big and lilttle back on little.

by Robert Curre on Jan 19, 2012 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

So coach,

I agree/understand that switching is a valid defensive tool, yet am I to believe that the amount of switching we’re doing is acceptable? Also, is that the Phoenix offense that’s causing that many hang ups or is it our lack of commitment before the switch takes place? Not trying to be sarcastic. I’ve always noticed them, but genuinely I have never noticed teams switching defenders constantly. Where does man defense fall in with all of this? I always thought you were responsible for your specific defensive assignment and that generally, “letting your man beat you” was frowned upon. Enlighten me, please. Again I mean no disrespect as I’m not a coach and do want to understand.

"Umm - it was - you know - umm - a good game. You know."-
Patrick Ewing (my Knick Hero)

by Ren Carlos on Jan 19, 2012 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Both Bucks and Nuggets are gonna be miserable

Jennings usually roasts us when he plays us and Lawson and Nene are gonna eat us up

You just got Tysoned!!!!!!

by Jason Bee on Jan 19, 2012 9:08 AM EST reply actions  

Mr. Jennings

Meet Mr. Shumpert and Mr. Chandler.

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 19, 2012 11:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Fuck Jennings

I can’t stand that dude

KNICKS NOW
http://nyknicksnow.blogspot.com/ - check it out!

by WSD on Jan 19, 2012 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

D'antoni's plan of attack

is to have his team figure out its own plan of attack. But Amar’e and Carmelo both are bad planners and they’re effectively the leaders of the team and have actually been made captains.

We have no skilled point guards on the roster, and the guys we do have playing point guard don’t have any sway against the alpha dogs of the team.

I warned about this at the beginning of last season when all the chatter was starting up. It is what it is. This team needs Baron to play point guard but also to put Amar’e and Carmelo in their place. I hope he can do that.

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 19, 2012 10:05 AM EST up reply actions  

And do you have any confidence

MDA would be able to do that? Or that MDA even has it in him to try at this point?

by Zhantee on Jan 19, 2012 10:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Actually no

But I’m not sure there’s a coach on earth that could… Maybe Phil Jackson.

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 19, 2012 10:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Hey Seth I just rec'd this guys comment and it came up like I flagged it.

But No cookies you are right. The Knicks are not playing an offense right now, not D’Antoni’s offense or any offense, right now we just have a bunch of guys taking shots and mostly missing and that is not offense.

by Robert Curre on Jan 19, 2012 10:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Baron tweeted that he's been watching tape of Nash and trying to absorb the principles of SSOL

It’s not the same as practice time, but… at least he’s not “I can’t wait to join the party of disorganized, unconscionable chucking!!”

by flossy on Jan 19, 2012 11:08 AM EST up reply actions  

this is why i think we are in a rock and hard place

TKB game recap called for Mike D to change his offense to suit the team out there… but that is ridiculous to me cause a MAJOR piece of our team is a weekish away from coming back.

We are kinda in a holding patter for a little while more. Keep working on D, and try to get that locked down then when BD comes back the O can really start to flow.

I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."

by gbaked on Jan 19, 2012 12:26 PM EST up reply actions  

We're not even running an offense though

What percentage of our plays are set plays that involve more than 1-2 players (and TD or Shumpert passing to Melo before he ISOs doesn’t count)? If D’Antoni was insisting we run the same offense as last year and it wasn’t working that would be one thing.

by flossy on Jan 19, 2012 12:41 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Exactly my point

You can’t call our inability to score proof that D’Antoni’s offense doesn’t work; the offense isn’t even being ran, so how could we have any evidence about whether or not it’s successful?

Now, it IS possible that D’Antoni is insisting we run that offense, but nobody’s listening to him, in which case we’d have a MUCH bigger problem on our hands. But more likely, he hasn’t had an adequate opportunity to teach anything. I’m sure he tries to whenever he gets the chance, and he wants his system to be in the players minds when they start a game. But when things break down and they revert back to their old habits, there’s not a whole lot he can do about it, ‘cause he hasn’t had any time to teach his players how to adjust to obstacles; he hasn’t even had time to show them the fundamentals!

Going into the shortened preseason, the coaches took a look at their roster, and this is what they saw: 3 guys who’d played together (well, on the same TEAM at least, we could probably argue how much they played “together”) for about 3 months, and then a bunch of people who’d never played together in their lives. Of the players who were going to be getting most of the minutes, 2 were pretty safe bets to score like mad, and do nothing on defense. So they prioritized. Given a choice between coaching a little bit offense, a little bit of defense, or an even littler bit of both to a bunch proven scorers, they went with option B, hoping it would be the lesser of two evils. So far, their (probably correct) gamble hasn’t paid off, but in the long run, it still might.

by nocookiesforme on Jan 19, 2012 1:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks!

If only there weren’t word omissions and glaring grammar mistakes in both of my posts, I’d feel like I’d contributed something valuable today haha.

by nocookiesforme on Jan 19, 2012 1:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think it's a practice time issue so much as a personnel issue

We have the sorriest excuse for a point guard rotation in the entire league, and there is no offense you could run “through” Carmelo Anthony that will not result in a lot of shots for Carmelo Anthony and a lot of spectating by the rest of the team. For a few minutes at a time? Maybe. As like, the fundamental offensive game plan night in and night out? No. He’s an okay passer in certain situations, but he has no PG instincts, does not control the pace, does not recognize how or why to get the whole team involved.

by flossy on Jan 19, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I disagree with you there.

Given enough time, I think you could design an effective offense around just about anybody, as long as he had SOME passing ability. Over the course of NBA history, there have been successful offenses that were run primarily through non-point guards. Theoretically, you could even win a championship in a system where a wing player isolated on the perimeter during every half court set. That’s basically how Phil Jackson’s iterations of the Triangle Offense have operated; the key is that when the primary ball-handler gets the ball in certain places, the other players all know where to go, and the ball handler knows they’re going there. Then he doesn’t have to read the whole floor; he just needs to be a quarterback in a west coast offense, and hit the most open man running the route he knows to expect.

Melo should absolutely be capable of running that kind of offense, because it doesn’t require incredible point-guardy skills. All it really takes is preparation. Unfortunately, the system is clearly not in place. When Melo has the ball, the other players aren’t thinking “My job now is to cut here,” or “My job now is to set a screen here.” They’re thinking, “well, Melo has the ball… I wonder if I can pick my nose without any of the camera guys noticing?” As a result, Melo can’t count on anyone being anywhere without seeing them there first, and he really DOESN’T have the court vision (or the desire) to operate like that.

Is it better in 100% of cases to have a competent point guard on your roster? Obviously. But I really don’t think you can ignore the fact that we have no offensive system at all, and the lack of practice time has to be at least PARTLY responsible for that. Even Isolationball can lead to crisply executed plays if the off-ball players are properly prepared for it. In our case, they’re not.

by nocookiesforme on Jan 19, 2012 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Practice time would certainly help

But if you think that with enough practice and coaching that the Knicks could win a championship with Carmelo Anthony as the primary distributor of the basketball, I respectfully submit that you are crazy vastly overrating Carmelo’s passing acumen, and more importantly, his desire to take responsibility for the overall performance of the offense in any way more meaningful that “okay my turn to take the shots now.”

But yes, I have to agree that with time to practice, the offense would improve, if only by default.

by flossy on Jan 19, 2012 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Fair point.

I’ll concede to you on that one – there’s no way any team wins a championship with Carmelo as their primary distributor. But I do think it’s possible to win one goddamned GAME with him as the initiator, provided the team knows what to do with him, and he knows what to do with it.

But I kinda got away from my original point, which was this: I don’t think the Knicks need practice time just because that’s how they’ll make it to Carnegie Hall; I think they need practice time because they’re currently operating without any sort of system on offense. With the roster constructed as it currently is, there probably isn’t any system that’s going to win them a championship. But there is definitely one that can win them some games, and probably even on purpose. Yes, I’m making that distinction; the way they’re playing right now, they might win a few games by accident, ‘cause there’s a lot of talent on this roster. But without a system in place, they’re NOT legitimate contenders. And it’s not easy to install a system on the fly, especially when you have 5 games a week all season.

by nocookiesforme on Jan 19, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

In essence

lack of practice time is exacerbating the issues caused by our weirdly-constructed roster.

by flossy on Jan 19, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

it's a chemistry problem

Any game we have won so far has been because we have a few super talented players! I think we need to stop thinking about which free agent needs to come in and fix the problem! I think baron is good enough, and chemistry is something that takes a long time, not 14 games,
We should be happy that we are hovering around 500 with no serviceable point guard! And surprise when baron comes back, it’s gonna take time as well, but people are still going to call for peoples heads!

by Phillip P on Jan 19, 2012 9:42 AM EST via iPhone app reply actions  

No offense...

(and pun intended)… but I can’t agree with being happy hovering around a .500 record with two max players on our team who are supposed to be “stars”.

As for chemistry… in scientific terms, doesn’t that involve having the right mix of various “ingredients” kinda? With how our team is constructed, I just can’t see us bonding well enough at this point to fully turn this season around. Sure, we’ll be better when Baron is playing… but we’ll still be nowhere near where our expectations were to start the season… and nowhere near where a team paying two “stars” max money should be.

by Zhantee on Jan 19, 2012 9:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Knicks will make the playoffs....

and probably lose in the second round to Chicago in 5 or 6 games. Is that a succesful season…no, but definetly realistic.

by Oakleytookmylunchmoney on Jan 19, 2012 9:54 AM EST up reply actions  

It would be the most successful season since 2000, so what are you talking about?

As much as the Knicks have problems we Knicks fans may have more. Since when did making the playoffs and making the 2nd round not be considered a successful season? I am probably one of the few handful around here who can remember when the Knicks were expected to win the title every year, and that was not the 1990s folks, in fact it was the early 70s and I was younger then than Seth is now. So let’s get a grip. If this team makes the playoffs and gets to the second round, everyone here should be pleased, since a lot of you were probably a couple of years out of diapers the last time that happened. It is like last season, people were bitching about the team only winning 42 games, and finishing 2 games over .500. The recent history of this team was they would finish 20 games under .500, so I will sign up for 2 games over every day of the week. We need to check ourselves.

by Robert Curre on Jan 19, 2012 10:36 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Agreed

We can’t realistically expect more from this team than 2nd round. I’d love to be in the 2nd round again.

by Joamiq on Jan 19, 2012 10:38 AM EST up reply actions  

2nd Round is the measuring stick I think

They absolutely should make the 2nd round and even if they don’t advance, it should be a tough battle, like 6 or 7 games. With the money our top 3 guys are being paid, and the way they gutted the team for a superstar, I’d say anything less than the 2nd round is a disappointment

KNICKS NOW
http://nyknicksnow.blogspot.com/ - check it out!

by WSD on Jan 19, 2012 10:46 AM EST up reply actions  

+1

Gutted the team is so true. After that trade, the goal was to be a contender not to compete in the first or second round, win or lose. We could have done that pre-gutting.

by Zhantee on Jan 19, 2012 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Not when you say at the beginning of the season that we're the "Big 3" and our goal is a championship THIS YEAR...

I go back to the Ernie Grunfeld on the Knicks days, so I have an idea of what i’m talking about. What i’m saying is that I see them PEAKING with a second round playoff exit. This is the team for the next four years….you’re ok with that?

by Oakleytookmylunchmoney on Jan 19, 2012 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

since you are a baby in Knickdom I will give you a pass

But really dude in most years the Knicks in the 90s went home in the second round. This mythology that we lost to the Bulls every year in the conference finals is BS. More often than not we got sent home in the second round.

And if this team is competitive makes the playoffs for each of the next 4 years and exits in the second round I will be fine with that. Winning in the playoffs is often about who your opponent is and how well you are playing when you get to the playoffs. It is the hot team not the team with the biggest names that wins.

by Robert Curre on Jan 19, 2012 11:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Baron won't need 14 games to gel with this team

It’s not like when we got Chauncey, who was ingrained in another offense and was suddenly suiting up for a team with which he was not familiar.

Baron has been at every Knicks game and practice since he signed with the team. He knows the players, and he knows D’antoni’s coaching style. Baron will probably just need a few games to fulfill his end of team chemistry.

The rest of the team will need longer to get used to Baron because they have not studied him in a similar way. I don’t expect that to take long. Perhaps a few weeks of fantastic feeds from Baron, some of which will have no Knick anticipating them. When Baron returns we’ll have games that have “that’s what it’s like to have a real PG” plays as well as the “why did Baron start an alley-oop when no one was going finish it?” plays.

By the end of February, the same fans who think that D’antoni is a moron will think that he’s a genius. The hyperbole will swing from one extreme to the other.

__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Jan 19, 2012 10:01 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

You're probably right

I think the Chemistry problem is that neither Amar’e or Carmelo have any idea how to create chemistry. They both get locked into this high school ‘The chips are down, I have to take over the game’ attitude. That kind of attitude is chemistry-destroying.

To be fair, Lebron James has this kind or problem too with his game.

The problem with trying to take over and score on Iso’s is that it signals a mistrust in your teammates and it hurts their confidence. I think Davis understands this kind of thing, as most really good point guards do. The Knicks need him because he’s the only guy who could possibly rein these guys in and keep them from leaving the rest of their teammates behind.

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 19, 2012 10:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Yup
The problem with trying to take over and score on Iso’s is that it signals a mistrust in your teammates and it hurts their confidence

It also hurts their rhythm because they’re just standing around and watching. When they finally do get the ball, they can’t hit a shotm, which makes Stat or Melo just go back to isolating

KNICKS NOW
http://nyknicksnow.blogspot.com/ - check it out!

by WSD on Jan 19, 2012 10:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Baron's been at every game

watching how he play. He maybe more than anyone understands what’s wrong with our offense. MDA seems so frustrated, he’s almost ineffective. I have faith in Baron’s ability as PG, but also what he’s gonna bring communication-wise. He’s smart.

posi..tive ....thoughts..?
@krishhhayyy

by gymtanlandry on Jan 19, 2012 12:02 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

For some reason the site is not letting me rec this

But I think everything you said will be shown to be pretty accurate.

by Joamiq on Jan 19, 2012 10:37 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm actually embarrassed being a Knick fan right now...

this shit is painful… ugly ugly basketball that has me losing confidence in Davis being able to truly fix it.

Sure… a PG to run the show better might lead to more open looks… that we’ll end up missing anyway. Yes our offense looks awful at times… but it looks that bad because we’re even missing the open looks and with us lacking pure shooters, I don’t know if that will change no matter WHO is running the show. Look at our team… you can point to several “scorers” and 0 shooters. That’s not a good mix.

by Zhantee on Jan 19, 2012 9:43 AM EST reply actions  

Did you feel this way last year...

cause unless we lose 5 straight we will be off to a better start than we were last year with the “Dream Team” of Felton, Chandler, Gallo, etc. Last year we had a point guard that needed to learn the system and things changed once he did, This year we have a much better point guard that hasn’t even stepped on the court. Chill. Good things take time…

by robk on Jan 19, 2012 9:52 AM EST up reply actions  

No, I didn't feel the same...

cuz that team was still being built with a much younger “core” that wasn’t even fully constructed yet. The team last year obviously wasn’t a “Dream Team”, but they seemed to complement each other much more than this current team does or will. Last year, we probably had better shooters that could more consistently knock down a three… I don’t see that this year.

So a LOT changed at the start of last year that made that early record make sense. Not only a new PG (Felton), but a new star (Amare) and youngsters still growing up. This year, our two stars were here already as was our supposed starting PG (DWTDD) and two guard. A true center was the only addition to the starting lineup… and that alone should improve things now vs then.

So yes… this year is TOTALLY different from then.

by Zhantee on Jan 19, 2012 10:35 AM EST up reply actions  

If you break it down...

We’re a much stronger team this year once we have Baron back. And I would argue that more changed this year than last so these early growing pains make sense.

Yes, our 2 stars were here at the beginning of the season but the big hole was at point guard. I don’t think you can really consider TD a point guard in any sense of the word. He’s a good 6th man that was told “You’re the starting point guard”. Shumpert is an improvement but he’s not really a proper point guard either and he’s a rookie with less than 10 games under his belt.

Look at our roster position by position:
Baron > Felton
Landry/ Shumpert≥ Landry
Carmelo > Chandler or Gallo
Amare = Amare
Tyson > Amare or Mozgov

Once we have a strong point guard to run things, it’s gonna fall into place.

by robk on Jan 19, 2012 10:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Right...

and that is the frustration with this team. The amount of talent should be enough to at least beat poor teams at home. We’re not. Our goal isn’t to only beat the poor teams… it’s to beat the good teams. I don’t know if Baron will provide enough of a difference for that.

Yes, once he’s back, meshed and playing well… we should have no problem beating the Suns and Bucks of the world. But that wasn’t our goal to start the season. It was to contend for a title. With how poor we look now, it would take HUGE strides to create that drastic of a turnaround.

by Zhantee on Jan 19, 2012 11:07 AM EST up reply actions  

how do we know Baron is better than

Felton? We haven’t seen him play yet…And I think Amare ’11> Amare ’12 so far…..which is HUGE

You just got Tysoned!!!!!!

by Jason Bee on Jan 19, 2012 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll agree on the Amare point...

he is having issues this season but a lot of that comes from not having anybody running the point that can get him the ball in rhythm so he’s trying to create for himself (which he SHOULD be able to do, he’s a $100,000,000 superstar after all) but it’s just ugly and his attitude doesn’t help.

I’m not going to argue that Baron is better than Felton, he just is. Felton gets a lot of love on this board and he played well for a stretch last year but, honestly, he’s a good passing point guard at best with a shot that’s hit or miss. Baron is definitely a tier above him.

by robk on Jan 19, 2012 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

right I agree when healthy Baron is

and he has been a better PG in the past. I’m just saying how do we know how effective Baron will be until we see him play NOW….you cant say he will play better than Felton did for a stretch last year without seeing how he returns first

You just got Tysoned!!!!!!

by Jason Bee on Jan 19, 2012 2:36 PM EST up reply actions  

If we're getting good in-rhythm looks, they will start falling

As for Davis, well, when I play basketball I don’t usually run the point. But sometimes when I’m playing with a guy who’s not particularly confident and looks a little lost, I’ll drive in and draw his man, then kick it to him for an open look from 15 feet, and I’ll yell “Take that!”. I swear to god, just yelling that increases the guy’s shooting percentage 10 or more percentage points, because you indicate that you believe in him.

Then, there are players who are really, really skilled and can score one on one even when contested, and get pissed off when someone not as skilled misses a shot. A good point guard will take that guy aside and say “Hey, he was open – that was a good shot. Support your fuckin’ teammate.”

I really think this is what the Knicks are sorely lacking out there. This is why I hate how teams just throw the ‘Captain’ title around like it’s nothing. Our captains aren’t acting like captains on the floor. They’re acting like they think their shit don’t stink.

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 19, 2012 10:23 AM EST up reply actions  

I do so hope you're right...

and I couldn’t agree more about the on-court confidence thing (“Take that!!” is a perfect description). I just wish we had someone we could point to and say that the 3 is a huge strength. MDA’s usual offense needs a few of those… and we don’t have any.

by Zhantee on Jan 19, 2012 10:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Amare's basketball IQ stinks and Melo is going for the scoring title....

Amare has no clue how to swing the ball and Melo just refuses to do it right now. Amare plays defense like he’s bambi on ice sometimes. Everyone once and a while he makes a great block, but that’s like trying to put lipstick on a pig.

The problem is D’Antoni is a player’s coach and doesn’t have the balls to either pull Melo out when he guns to much or pull Amare out when he plays shit defense. He can’t do it because he’ll lose the locke room. That’s why we need a coach who doesn’t give a shit and will yank guys out if they don’t buy into the concept of team ball.

The Garden faithful appreciate crisp ball movement to find the open man and good defense. That’s how the game is won. This is an abomination right now….

by Oakleytookmylunchmoney on Jan 19, 2012 9:51 AM EST reply actions  

The problem is D’Antoni is a player’s coach and doesn’t have the balls to either pull Melo out when he guns to much or pull Amare out when he plays shit defense.

No coach in the league is going to bench 2 players making $40 mil combined. He might as well just hand in his resignation. These are the “stars” we are stuck with.

by flossy on Jan 19, 2012 11:16 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

You are full of it!

Riley did not have the balls to pull Starks when he gunned to much, JVG did not have the balls to pull Sprewell when he would force shot after shot. You guys are funny, when D’Antoni pulls players for playing like shit, you moan and bitch about Dog houses and shit. When he doesn’t you bitch about that. If he pulled Carmelo and the team lost people would complain about that, if he leaves him in and they lose people complain. There isn’t any middle ground these days.

by Robert Curre on Jan 19, 2012 11:20 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

D'antoni can't pull Melo

But he can draw up plays that make him the second or third option. He doesn’t really draw up too many plays these days because 1) His resignation has been signed, sealed and delivered for him, effective May 2012. 2) He has no ideas what do without a PG.

by erniesto on Jan 19, 2012 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Nobody can execute plays

We have the worst backcourt in the NBA right now. The corpse of Mike Bibby is the closest we have to a PG and Melo is just not going to play 36 mins/game trying to run offensive sets for other people. It’s just not going to happen. That’s not who he is nor what he really should be doing, honestly.

by flossy on Jan 19, 2012 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

You do realize that even Demon coach Larry Brown only called about 25% of plays from the bench.

Basketball offenses work on certain principles and because basketball is an up and down the floor game coaches do not always have the chance to call plays every trip up the floor. That is why you have shoot around, a point guard and you instill an offense. You trust the players to execute the offensive principles, and the plays develop from them. Because coaches may draw up plays during time outs or can be seen yelling plays to a point guard now and then during the game, it is a mistake to think that every offensive possesion has a called play attached to it. So no he cannot call plays to make Melo the 3rd option, because that is not how it works. And as for he has no ideas what to do without a point guard, well that would be every coach in basketball, every coach needs someone responsible for running the offense. Even the Triangle offense has someone running it. In Chicago it was often Pippen or Kukoc who were not point guards but they still ran the offense. Right now he does not have anyone running the offense period. So you are right I can’t think of any coach who can get offense going if he has no one to run it.

by Robert Curre on Jan 19, 2012 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

but Robert

clearly you are crazy. a coach needing someone to run their offense? How lazy! We know that if Mike D was just better at yelling out plays during the game, guys like Melo and Shump would be like… “OH! Thats right” and totally do what Mike D says.

Thats like saying a great coach needs a good QB to run a football offense. A great coach can make a RB his QB and win games…

right?

I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."

by gbaked on Jan 19, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Sooo Who hits under 40% shooting first? Stat or Melo

Also i don’t think a PG will help too much. the Knicks are better off trading one of these two, and focus on centering the offense around the other.

by lololol on Jan 19, 2012 10:10 AM EST reply actions  

I still think a healthy Davis is the best way

But seriously, if they traded Carmelo for Ray Felton right now, they’d be a better team tomorrow.

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 19, 2012 10:26 AM EST up reply actions  

lol...

sad, but probably true. And funny….. as in a hysterical, strait-jacket kinda funny.

by Zhantee on Jan 19, 2012 10:41 AM EST up reply actions  

sigh...

the fuck did they do

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Jan 19, 2012 11:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Some seriously gambly shit

We had a point guard – he may not have been the best, but he was a floor leader and good on both ends, just entering his prime. We traded him for a powerful weapon, but when you do that, you run the risk that you never find that floor leader again.

Much like they did when they traded Mark Jackson for Charles Smith all those years ago. Back then, we ping ponged from Greg Anthony to an aging Doc Rivers to an aging Derek Harper to Charlie Ward to the Ward / Childs combo. Some of those options worked quite well but we never really did find that one special guy to grow with the team.

Now, if Baron Davis can play, and if he can play at a high level for the next few years, we’re good. Or, alternatively, if Shump can develop into a starting point guard and floor general (I’m encouraged so far), we’re good. But those are big if’s, and we could be floundering at the point guard spot for years. Particularly with the forwards we have, I think we need a strong guy.

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 19, 2012 11:27 AM EST up reply actions  

look on the bright side boston sucks! :)

"As much as I respect and admire Bill Belichick, I came here to kick his a**, and that’s the truth." - Rex Ryan

now lets go get a goddamn snack.

by JETSFANF0RLYF3 on Jan 19, 2012 1:40 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Another question,

What the hell Doug Collins doing that’s so right? Did the players just buy in? is it his coaching style? They have half of the talent we have and look twice as nice. I know their chemistry is better being they’ve been together for two years but they don’t have one guy that can be touted as a star on that team.

"Umm - it was - you know - umm - a good game. You know."-
Patrick Ewing (my Knick Hero)

by Ren Carlos on Jan 19, 2012 2:58 PM EST reply actions  

They are crazy deep

3 of their top 5 scorers come off the bench. That team is easily as talented as the Knicks, it’s just not as concentrated in 3 players. And Igoudala is criminally underrated if not a “star.”

by flossy on Jan 19, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I love Iggy...

he has his flaws of course, but dude is SO well rounded.

by Zhantee on Jan 19, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

And he doesn't even completely play up to his potential

He has pretty much the exact same skill set as Lebron James, with maybe slightly better defense and slightly worse scoring ability.

I would love to have Jrue Holiday, Iggy, or Thad Young on this team. Any of them or all of them!

KNICKS NOW
http://nyknicksnow.blogspot.com/ - check it out!

by WSD on Jan 19, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd take Sweet Lou Williams too!

Dude comes off the bench and runs it. Hell, Even Turner is gonna be a beast too. He’s coming up!

"Umm - it was - you know - umm - a good game. You know."-
Patrick Ewing (my Knick Hero)

by Ren Carlos on Jan 19, 2012 4:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Those who watch Iggy regularly

Are definitely happy with his play but he doesn’t live up to the amount they have to pay him. I do like Iggy & you’re right, he’s a star. Like dude said he is really well rounded… puts up 15, 5 , & 5 without anybody even noticing. I liked when there were talks a couple of years ago of us acquiring him.

"Umm - it was - you know - umm - a good game. You know."-
Patrick Ewing (my Knick Hero)

by Ren Carlos on Jan 19, 2012 4:09 PM EST up reply actions  

True but we're paying Tyson Chandler about the same amount to get 10 and 10

Being an elite defender is worth $ even if it doesn’t always show up in stats. Iggy’s probably the best wing defender in the league outside LBJ.

by flossy on Jan 19, 2012 6:03 PM EST up reply actions  

True

But centers are just invaluable in this league. Wing defenders are a dime a dozen. Tyson, in my opinion is worth the bread. Especially coming off of being the starting center on a championship team. Truthfully though, I am not fully invested in my argument…. I’d take Iggy on our squad with the right trade.

"Umm - it was - you know - umm - a good game. You know."-
Patrick Ewing (my Knick Hero)

by Ren Carlos on Jan 19, 2012 6:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Since the free preview of League Pass ended, I haven't been able to see a Knicks game.

Sounds like that might actually be a win for me…. ugh.

Well guys, at some point this tam is gonna pull itself together. I really believe it. We have a glaring flaw at PG right now, and we have other weaknesses, but this team is still far too talented to sink to the bottom. At some point, the Knicks are gonna click and go on a tear and these game recap threads will get back to the positives.

The season IS shortened, but we still have a long ways to go. I only hope they don’t make any rushed decisions beforehand.

"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire

by Chris Child's Fist on Jan 19, 2012 3:27 PM EST reply actions  

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