Lowe: The Knicks' offense is pretty broken.
by Seth on Jan 19, 2012 3:47 PM EST
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PrintNow, this isn't going to be anything you couldn't conclude yourself after watching the Knicks' first fourteen games, but Zach Lowe turned his attention back to the Knicks for an article today, and trotted out a few numbers demonstrating that New York's offense is bad, wrong, broken, and bad again just for good measure. Here's one datum that handily sums up just how inept the offense has been:
The Knicks have finished 16.2 percent of their possessions with isolation plays. That is the highest number in the league, edging the iso-tastic Kings, according to Synergy Sports. New York has scored 0.65 points per possession on those plays, the second-worst mark. Put simply: The Knicks are devoting a giant portion of their offense to something at which they are horrible — at least so far. New York has shot an incredibly low 29 percent on isolation plays, per Synergy. That is very hard to manage.
Yeah, that seems less than ideal. Now, you can go one of several ways with the above information. A lot of folks will see this and grumble about how D'Antoni isn't calling plays and has no control over anything that happens on the floor. Others will blame Amar'e and Melo for gobbling up possessions and stifling the Knick ball movement. And there's a third group that will read this and stick their thumbs back in their ears and go "NAH NAH NAH NO POINT GUARD JUST WAIT UNTIL BARON DAVIS IS BACK I CAN'T HEAR YOU NAH NAH NAH". Oh, and how about that bench? I've heard plenty of folks say that the Knicks' foremost problem is their lack of depth.
None of us are wrong, none of us are entirely right, and I hope we can all agree that every one of these factors is partially to blame. Any way you slice it, the Knicks have opened this season with one of the worst offensive stretches we've ever seen from them, like, ever. We've nothing to do but sit, wait, and hope things improve. Or go outside or something. Don't panic, though. It's not a good look.
(All that said, Lowe rightly acknowledges that the Knick defense, while undeniably bizarre, has been relatively effective thus far.)
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Used to be able to score rediculous amounts of points, couldn't stop a nosebleed
Now defense statistically improves, and the offense can’t run a play.
Irony.
Formerly known as "GangGrizzle".
If the offense wasn't so terrible, the Knicks would actually be good
Chandler anchors a defense that would otherwise be bottom-5 and makes it top-10.
But D’Antoni really has shown he doesn’t know or care what he’s doing. It’s ridiculous that a team expect to be all-offense has one of the absolute worst offenses in the NBA. Sure, lack of a PG is one reason, but the completely horrible misuse of rotations, substitutions, injured players, time outs, and plays is why D’Antoni should go.
We do have to factor in all the injuries, don't we?
I mean, Amare’ had that elbow jumper on lock before the back spasms last year. I also hate to admit that as much as I hate his iso hold the ball offense, Melo when healthy does what Melo does well. You know he’s a perennial beast on offense. I am also, not a fan of D’antoni run and gun but I wonder if all were healthy, including Baron, if we’d be seeing this as disastrous as we are now. In Mikes defense, he didn’t trade for Melo, release Billups, , sign lame duck Bibby, or forget to resign Anthony Carter. I believe your biggest beef is with Dolan for those issues.
"Umm - it was - you know - umm - a good game. You know."-
Patrick Ewing (my Knick Hero)
For sure I disagree with many of the deals
But it’s the coach’s job to not give minutes and shots to injured players, and to use his roster effectively, and not change a player’s shot right before the season starts. He also always calls time outs after a run has gotten way out of hand, allows isolations, doesn’t have Amar’e finishing pick & rolls, and so on.
Who could replace those missing minutes?
Do you honestly think that if we sat Melo and Stat until they were right we’d win any games at all???? Hot seat is gonna force him to get what he can from who he can and sitting those two is like asking for the key to the door leading outside. Furthermore, who could have seen that Landry would be struggling this badly or that TD wouldn’t progress into a better PG option. I also am very unsure that Amar’e can even finish those P & R’s nightly anymore… he looks to be a shell of the player we had last year. Again, I’m not at all on his side and wanted a defensive minded coach when we hired D’antoni. It’s just hard to ignore the numerous factors beyond his shitty offensive sets attributed to our shabby status. I do agree with dude below that said he just doesn’t make the right strategic calls when the game is on the line. That was awful to watch Nash just ice the game from the free throw line. My question is is there anyone in the league that could make this squad perform properly without trading half the team? Just don’t see it.
"Umm - it was - you know - umm - a good game. You know."-
Patrick Ewing (my Knick Hero)
Why the F didn't they make sure the ball went to anybody but Nash....
on those last few possessions???? I mean D’Antoni used to coach the guy, he knows that Nash makes almost every free throw he takes. He should have had Shump and Chandler marking him on the in bounds and the other three guys fouling whoever got the pass. That is bad coaching…
Not just every free throw. He's one of the best shooters ever
Then again, D’Antoni said Gallinari is the best shooter, so what does he know.
Pretty sure Fields at SF
Would be better than Carmelo shooting 20%. Sure it’s less than ideal, but even the Knicks backups are better than a star as hurt as these guys have been. I think Amar’e can still play, he just doesn’t get any of the right opportunities anymore. There’s no reason why he would suddenly be slow and lose his whatever ability he had to pass or dribble or shoot.
So... is there anything good about our team right now?
I guess the defense, but that’s still very much a work in progress and still oddly frustrating. Yeah, so actually, I’m going to say there’s nothing consistently good about the Knicks right now
KNICKS NOW
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Lately we seem to be quite good at losing...
Seriously though, there are good things they just seem to be good at separate times. Like last night was the first time Landry remembered how to play and Shumpert hit some AMAZING shots especially in crunch time but it was the same night Melo and Amare went 12 of 45 or something.
We are most definitely not firing on all cylinders.
The ball just doesn't move in this offense
EIther STAT or Melo has to give up some touches for the sake of the team. If we keep iso’ing, then that only really helps Melo and SOMETIMES Amare. If we move the ball, STAT is a more productive player and Melo seems to stay quiet. I’m definitely in that third group of people who thinks Baron returning will help because he will be the guy to say when and how things work in the offense. He can control the pace and find the right guy at the right time.
Melo is a beast
But come on. He was 4-21 in the game with under a minute remaining. Shumpert was on fire. So what does D’antoni do? Draw up plays for Melo. I for one hope D’antoni gets fired soon. He’s just not the right coach for this personnel. And the way he played it down the stretch was idiotic. Instead of going for 3, he decides to get 2, then foul Steve Nash hoping he would somehow miss one. You think coaching him for that many years would have suggested that going for a three was the highest percentage move.
His entire 4th quarter plan is give to Melo and pray
And defensively, you really need to keep the ball out of the hands of the best shooters at the end of the game. The Knicks completely fail at that.
The switching on d happens mind blowingly often
But even though sometimes it looks terrible, it seems to somehow work out.
A void? I see no void!
i think melo and d'antoni literally speak different languages...
and the domino effect of their inability to understand each other is that we suck as a team. melo speaks melo… and d’antoni speaks pace and movement… and both of them just nod their heads at each other pretending to understand.
blame either… blame both… doesn’t really matter… shit’s just not working. doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see this.
and i’m already tired of the “it’s early, it’s the injuries, no training camp” mumbo jumbo… our kind of sucking is a clear symptom of a terminal basketball illness… TIME TO AMPUTATE!
Who are you going to amputate?
Amar’e can only be traded for pennies on the dollar.
Melo is a top 3 SF, lets all stop pretending that his years in Denver under George Karl didn’t exist. Chandler is a top 5 C — easily.
The rest of the salaries add up to like 7 million together.
they did exist... which is why karl was so excited to unload him.
what did melo accomplish again?
by bucketsncents on Jan 19, 2012 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
Why don't you go hang out on the Nuggets SB Nation page???
You are obviously not a Knicks fan. I mean, if you are, you do realize that Melo plays for the Knicks now, right?
unfortunately...
still adjusting to his presence in the orange and blue… it’s a tough adjustment.
by bucketsncents on Jan 19, 2012 9:37 PM EST up reply actions
Perhaps, but Melo won’t change. He wanted the bright lights of NY, and he got ‘em. But he doesn’t care about actually winning, just about being the next Bernard King type prolific scorer. He’s not coachable, and not a winner. He’s a ball hog, chucker, and chemistry killer.
What I guess I’m saying is things won’t get better until Melo is gone.
"undeniably bizarre....relatively effective'
Sounds like Jared Jeffries’ scouting report.
Melo probably has something to do with it, he played on an offense that performed superior to D’antoni’s and probably brought that chip with him. I also think STAT has given up on D’antoni, and might think (especially after last night) that Nash was the true wizard in Phoenix.
D’antoni isn’t stupid and knows his players are quitting on him and that’s why he has stopped calling plays. I’m sure he is aware of the writing on the wall that he’s done as a Knicks coach after this year. He was put in a horrible situation and now I think he has quit too.
However, players are putting new and improved effort on defense, and a lackluster effort on the offensive end. Even STAT tries on defense (even though he is embarrassingly bad). To me it looks like the team quit on one coach and are working for another.
I think Woodson has made an excellent case to take over both ends of the court but will wait for the Davis miracle.
I don't know about D'Antoni giving up....
I’ve never seen him as fired up as he was last night.
I’m sure he sees the writing on the wall though. I don’t think it’s his fault that we are losing these games but in the NBA the coach is the easiest one to pin it on and the easiest one to fire…
Yep. Just like Woodson did wonders with the Hawks right?
Why is he not in Atlanta again?
"Umm - it was - you know - umm - a good game. You know."-
Patrick Ewing (my Knick Hero)
I agree, giving Woodson the job by default would be a mistake
At least give him some real competition.
We need a point guard
There’s one playing in China who scored 45 pts, 12 rebs, and 10 asts last night. Of course there’s a reason not to sign this player who shall remain nameless…
Home of the Jared Jeffries Shot Tracker
Yeah, he had a good night...
but I think we learned our lesson. Also he’s playing in China, might as well be the D League…
Just stop it!
"Umm - it was - you know - umm - a good game. You know."-
Patrick Ewing (my Knick Hero)
Can anyone think of a team that tried to combine two ball-hogging one-dimensional redundant “star” forwards, and a backcourt of basically rookies with limited passing skills, and won a lot of games that way?
A full training camp would have been nice; at least they would have known the roster was horrifically flawed before the bobcats, raptors, and suns proved it to us.
Baron will make this mess respectable when he’s healthy. Healthy Baron + Chandler should be an upgrade over Billups + Turiaf and Jeffries.
If I’m wrong, we’ll see if Mike Woodson or Phil Jackson (don’t count on it) can get anything out of these guys.
If that doesn’t work… from past experience, Dolan never fires the players… unless they can be traded for bigger stars…
At least all the contracts expire at the same time and we will be left with a buttload of cap space 3 years from now.
Anyway, we had a pretty good rebuild going before the Melo trade. We had one star and cheap young complementary players who played well in our coach’s system, and that wasn’t enough for some people, so now we have this. Yay. I really don’t think they can possibly be as bad as they’ve looked for the last 13 games, though.
It's quite likely that Mike D'Antoni will accomplish something that Don Chaney, Lenny Wilkens, Herb Williams, Larry Brown, and Isiah Thomas couldn't do: Win a playoff game. So, obviously, small ball doesn't work.
Replace Forward with Center
and you have the Kobe/Shaq Lakers.
except
that kobe and shaq are far better players than melo and stat, and not one dimensional at all.
It's quite likely that Mike D'Antoni will accomplish something that Don Chaney, Lenny Wilkens, Herb Williams, Larry Brown, and Isiah Thomas couldn't do: Win a playoff game. So, obviously, small ball doesn't work.
yea they were playing well
but it was pretty much a .500 team b4 the trade as well. That team wasn’t going to accomplish anything in the playoffs either
You just got Tysoned!!!!!!
I still believe in this team.
The whole league is crazy right now. The Knicks are not at all the only team in a mess. We just have to stay around .500 until the break, build momentum for the second half and get some pop in the playoffs. It is painful right now but we’re going to make a nice run at the end. Baron and Shump are going to make a nice back court. Baron is also going to make the bench a much stronger unit with more options. Might be naive, but I still feel really good about this team.
by Sprewell on Jan 19, 2012 5:54 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Here's what we've got to do
Blow this mess up.
Since Stat is untradable we must keep him and rebuild the team around him. When the Knicks were his team he was a serious MVP candidate. Now he is a serious LVP canditate.
Trade Chandler and Melo. We will find plenty of takers for both of those guys. With Chandler gone there will be plenty of room for Stat to operate in the low post. With Melo gone we won’t have to suffer through his iso heavy, ball stopping high volume low percentage offense. Who we get to replace them depends on what BD brings to the table when he finally starts to play.
New signature coming soon.
Trade chandler and melo
Haha. Sometimes I think you guys want to just play GM mode on NBA2k.
Low percentage offense? HAHA. Someone find me a shooter, hell even a SF, who has a better shooting percentage than Melo not named Durant or Lebron. Then make sure they can pull down 6 rebounds and 3 assists in their sleep and can play 35 minutes while still playing at least mediocre defense. Then go explore your trade scenarios. Are you trying to fill Melo’s slot with a PF or Center? Really…
his 6 and 3 aren't a huge deal.
and his percentages are atrocious.
I’ve never played NBA2K, but it sure is tempting to entertain GM scenarios when the management of the team we all root for has done such a poor job. And “playing GM” is part of being a fan of any team for a lot of fans.
I’m not saying to trade him, partly because engaging on these boards is a mine field sometimes, but you’re not taking everything into account
No. You're wrong.
His career shooting % is one of the top in the league at his position. Combine that with the ability to score 25 points, 6 rebounds and 3 assists every day and that is huge! There is a reason this guy is a perennial players choice allstar, all-nba, and team USA — whether people have some absurd bias or not against him.
Really management screwed the pooch in one area: reupping on Billup’s contract. I think its a pretty sure thing that he would have signed back with NY for the 5million exception and Chandler would have still been a Knick. Now there is only Bibby and his broken knees to run the point. If you want to fault anyone, fault Amare (or the coaches for not holding him accountable) for not playing his position. He’s trying to be Novitizki and play stretch forward right now, something that he’s not.
didnt realize we were talking career numbers
considering that the original post that you replied to was about this season’s offense.
Oh this season is a pile of poop for everyone
You really have to look at the career numbers. If Melo does this for a whole season then its a different story.
Agreed.
For now I’m just annoyed that’s he’s proven me right instead of wrong about being a terribly inefficient shooter. He still has time to turn it around, and I’m not trying to dwell on this stretch because he is in fact on our team now, and we only have what we have
You are missing my point
Melo is tradeable. Stat not so much. Take away Melo and Chandler and the chances are Stat reverts to his old form. Then surround him with complimentary players and you’ve got an entertaining team. This has less to do with Melo’s shooting percentage than with chemistry.
New signature coming soon.
I don't see Melo and Amar'e playing together as a big issue
So what, you’ve got two guys who can score 30 points any given night?
I don’t want either of them to be traded, nor do I want Tyson to be traded. But there are some things you need if you’re going to have the both of them on the floor:
- A center with a jumpshot. Truthfully, a guy like Marc Gasol would be so perfect for this team. Tyson’s not a scoring threat except for alley-oops, so that’s one of the reasons Amar’e is struggling. If Chandler doesn’t play in the Olympics, dude’s got his work cut out for him in developing an 8-12 ft jumper. Not that difficult considering his touch from the FT line.
- A good PG. Obvious.
- Discipline from Melo not to go into iso mode and actually work the ball around and move himself as well.
- At least one good 3-point shooter, two would be ideal though, to space the floor.
I think an sweet, but wacky lineup D’Antoni should try out when Davis is back is: Davis at the PG, Melo at the SG, Novak at the SF, Amar’e at PF, Jorts at C. Or maybe this losing is making me delusional; I don’t know.
KNICKS NOW
http://nyknicksnow.blogspot.com/ - check it out!
Not THAT bad of an idea...
but keep Jorts on the bench and include Tyson only because Novak would spread the court enough.
But realistically, I think if Shump can hit “enough” of his threes though, he’ll be our two-guard unless Landry starts shooting better. Shump is more of an offensive threat than Landry is and probably better defensively as well. But with offensive threats at four positions (and if they can at least occasionally make a 3), we’ll look much better than we do now. I’m just not sure it’ll be as good as people are expecting based on how we look at the moment.
he still wouldn't do much
if he reverts to his old self he may win some games but that’s it. No rings and no playoff success.
Hey Yuck
Amar’e reverting to his old form and playing the 5 means that we go back to getting horrifically outrebounded every night. Lost in the miass of this losing streak has been the fact that we no longer are giving up 15 offensive rebounds every game.
The presence of Chandler is not the problem for Amar’e. It’s the lack of chemistry with a point guard. Certainly if you were going to trade either Amar’e or Melo, Melo probably has more value. But there’s no way I’m getting rid of Chandler. You know how hard it is to find guys like that?
Get The Frickin' Rebound
Yeah, I know what it means defensively
and really Chandler is our most effective player at the moment. The problem is that we wont be able to get any value if we traded Amar’e whereas Chandler and Melo still have lots of value. I’d like to think that Amar’e and Chandler could coexist but if not Tyson should probably be the one to go. I doubt any of this is going to happen by the way, Probably none of you do either. No big deal.
I just hate the kind of ball that is being played at the moment. Too bad most of you were not around when we were really really good, because that is where my ideas of what constitutes a great team were formed. Sadly it has been a pretty rotten stretch for most of you guys and Knick fans deserve more.
New signature coming soon.
That puts us exactly to where we were last year...
even if some here might prefer to rewind this past year, there is absolutely zero chance of that happening.
not true.
he was hearing early mvp chants but that was when they had the lucky month where they won most of their games against sorry teams. He would never have won the mvp award because Derick Rose was not only winning some games but carrying his team and had the best record in the east. No way he was seriously an MVP candidate unless he had kept it up and won way mor egames. They were still losing to the likes of the Kings, Suns etc. Nothing has changed. Actually I say if Chauncey didn’t get injured here we would have played much better but we screwed that up. Right now our entire fate hangs on a thin thread(baron davis) and if he can’t do nothing, it’s over.
Watching Amar'e play makes me physically angry.
Am I the only one that would accept a trade that was him for decent PG, say Jarrett Jack or Felton?
Stainer of mountaintops.
Tell me how Melo and Amar'e can coexist without radically changing their games.
I’ve gone over many scenarios, and none of them seem too great.
Stainer of mountaintops.
by Chairman Meow on Jan 19, 2012 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
what scenarios?
They’re basketball players. let them actually have some time playing with each other.
and trading stat for felton or jarret jack? come on son
40 (or something like that) games with each other isn't enough?
And the only good scenario I can see is Amar’e completely cutting out his iso game, which might happen when Baron comes back. Though I still can’t trust Baron to hold up physically.
Stainer of mountaintops.
by Chairman Meow on Jan 19, 2012 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
You're right
Amar’e does have to cut his Iso game. Actually melo needs to scale way back on that too. I think this D’antoni quote sums it up:
“We’re not really adhering to our offensive principles, we’re not really moving the ball,” he said. “There’s a lot of a will to win, and that translates into just give me the ball and let me do it.”
A point guard with some juice is what’s needed to turn both Amar’e and Carmelo’s will to win toward a more constructive play than iso-ing.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
Agree 100%.
I think both Melo and Stat are alpha-dogs that think they can put the team on their backs and will a win. And they try. You see it every time in the crunch, especially with Melo. He’ll go to his spot and demand the ball and nobody has the balls to say, “get your ass in the set I call.” Shump will do it every now and then, but not in crunch time. And thats why we stagnate in crucial moments, imo.
We need a guy that will get the ball to our big dogs in the crunch, but within the confines of the offense and off a set play. And I think that Stat and Melo will respond to a guy like Baron, and Baron won’t be bullied into iso’s like Shump and Toney are.
For once I agree with you Crackback
Davis has the experience, the accomplishments and the respect from other players to tell Melo “Fool you are 4-21 right now and the kid can’t miss right now” Come on son I love ya man but get the fuck off the elbow and cut! I am running something for the rook."
by Robert Curre on Jan 20, 2012 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
I think Baron constantly being vocal and in everyone's ear...
only reinforces that too. Players will see him doing that and respect it… which hopefully leads to the same on the floor.
And Baron will actually break down the defense to get easy shots for everybody else.
Shump can break a D down, but he doesn’t do it systematically and with the idea of setting up his teammates. At least not consistently.
Baron can run a PnR with Chandler with the whole purpose being to break down the defense and get an easy look for Melo and Amare. Our other PGs can’t make it past level 1 in their thinking, it seems.
Baron gets it. He knows that he can knock a shot down from a certain spot and how it will effect rotations and then exploit those rotations. We see Melo set up shots and exploit rotations sometimes, but its too few and far between. I really think Baron will raise the conciousness of the team as a whole, just by the way he plays.
Melo is sort of like a dog
That will be good and obey the commands, but every once in awhile it jumps up on you or starts barking at food and you have to yell at it and let it know that it shouldn’t do that.
Right now, I’m not sure anyone on the team is willing to yell at the dog when it barks and jumps and tries to isolate too much
KNICKS NOW
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Radical?
i do think that one of thems gonna have to take less shots but thats about it. amares career has been based of good pg play. he hasn’t had one since felton. his iso game needs to stop as well. a good pg would get him the open looks he needs.
Really?
All Amare needs to do is stop making terrible decisions.
If he does that (stop forcing up shots), he'll score maybe 15 points a game.
Melo just completely phases him out of the offense.
Stainer of mountaintops.
by Chairman Meow on Jan 19, 2012 7:59 PM EST up reply actions
10-15 Rebounds and 15-20 Points a game
Sounds pretty legit to me. Maybe he can take all that time he spends perfercting that marvelous jump shot of his to actually learn some D.
10-15 rebounds a game? That's a teensy bit generous.
And yeah, that jumper is the only thing of his I still like, but even that hasn’t been working lately; although no one’s have been, so I’ll let that go.
The bottom line: I just don’t know, man.
Stainer of mountaintops.
by Chairman Meow on Jan 19, 2012 8:08 PM EST up reply actions
He does make terrible decisions
And he needs someone in his ear on the court focusing him. Melo makes terrible decisions too, but he can often actually make a shot when he does it.
Melo’s a little smarter than Amar’e but also a little more emotional. They’re both flawed players because they make too many bad decisions, particularly when things get stressful.
On defense, Chandler can instruct them and get in their ear and focus them. On offense, Chandler’s not in a position to lead that way. We don’t have anyone on the offensive end that can take control of these guys – It would seem Bibby would have a chance but he’s been in and out with injuries. Shump has the boldness to do it but the guy’s a rook. Toney is too timid and he and Landry doesn’t play the right position on the floor.
Melo and Amar’e can pass and can play team basketball – but they’re not good leaders. By being big superstars and by being named captains, their version of leadership is iso-ing, which is the antithesis of leadership. But, people, this is a very hard lesson to un-learn for guys that dominated from middle school.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
Maybe it is hard to unlearn
And you are certainly right about leadership, but almost every player in the NBA has dominated from middle school, so why is taking these two knuckleheads so long to figure it out?
New signature coming soon.
How do you become "physically angry"
I mean physically sick yes…but anger is an emotion. If you act on it then the Knicks would make you violent.
by I know smart people on Jan 19, 2012 11:00 PM EST up reply actions
I shake when he does stupid iso plays.
Stainer of mountaintops.
by Chairman Meow on Jan 19, 2012 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think the solution is that complicated
we just need shooters. A good example is the Heat (ugh I hate to highlight them but they have been smart with roster moves). All of their role players are good jump shooters. They don’t need to be 3 pt specialists, even though some of them are, they just need to be able to consistently hit a jumpshot. And on top of that, those role players can defend and rebound.
if you replace, say, douglas, walker, fields, and jefferies with players that can consistently knock down an outside shot, I think we are a contender.
"Practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect."
But Frank
If you look at the guys we have, from Toney to Landry to Bibby to Novak, all of these guys were good three point shooters last year. And they’re all shooting way under their last year averages. If you traded them for other ‘shooters’, don’t you think those guys would also shoot worse within this offense?
If you watch basketball enough, you can predict if a shot is going to go in. In rhythm shots, off a crisp pass, tend to go through the hoop. Rushed and awkward shots tend to clank. We’ve been getting all rushed and awkward shots, and I don’t think different players would get better shots.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
Was prepared to disagree...
but looked up stats first and saw that both TD and Landry DID shoot a higher percentage than I thought last year. I still wouldn’t call them pure “shooters” though and that is something we need at the 2-guard. I do really hope Landry steps it up from the outside because he offers so many other things.
As for Novak and Bibby… Novak is stuck behind Melo and Stat (and others), so will never see much PT. He probably SHOULD be getting more run than he is right now with how much our O sucks right now. As for Bibby, once BD is back… he’ll never really see the floor.
And speaking of Baron… I think HIS shooting will be just as important as anything else he’ll bring. If he hits 40% like last year… HUGE for spacing, etc. If he’s down to near his career avgs, we’ll still have more issues than we’d like.
your right
the system has a lot to do with it.
lebron and wade do create wide open jumpers, or at least shots in rhythm, for their role players. Carmelo and Amare can def do a better jump of kicking out to their teammates instead of “blackholing”, though Melo has been creating for others a little this year.
"Practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect."
I am hopefully assured
that when we see this good pg play all of this angst will fade away
New signature coming soon.
The new and svelt Eddy Curry scored 6 points tonight
In the Laker game. He is the perfect example of what happens to talented players who come to NY.
by I know smart people on Jan 19, 2012 11:02 PM EST reply actions
From 400!
He could be the NBA’s biggest loser. I know I thought he was when he was on the roster for us.
by I know smart people on Jan 19, 2012 11:10 PM EST up reply actions
have you ever noticed players seem better when they playing somewhere else? Chauncey has been good throughout his career and hit another big shot the other night. Zach Randolph has been playing great in Memphis and Crawford has been a beast and won 6th man awards. Gallo is balling it up in Denver, and watch Eddie Curry revive his career and stick it to us good. That’s what we get.
That's what we get for what?
injuring Eddy Curry on purpose?
The reason it seems that way is that you only hear about the good times and highlights once they’re gone.
Now if Eddy Curry actually defends and get rebounds, I will be pissed. But I’m not worried about him coming back and being a 20 points / 6 rebound guy who doesn’t like D. Bring it on Eddy.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
Exactly
Also, in the case of Z-Bo and Crawford, those dudes did some growing up and learned to play (somewhat) within the confines of a team and system. When they were here, well specifically Jamal, I think he did like what we’re seeing with Melo and Amar’e now: try and put the team on his back and just throw up shots. Z-Bo was more just an immature punk looking for stats, but he’s matured and utilized his incredible skillset very well.
I saw some dude on Twitter wrote “Mike D’Antoni tried to kill Eddy’s career”. I usually don’t like to respond but I had to reply and tell him it was more like Eddy Curry routinely showing up overweight and getting injured that killed his career. Why play an unmotivated, injured player?
KNICKS NOW
http://nyknicksnow.blogspot.com/ - check it out!
Melo = Marbury
He can’t be coached. His game is what his game is and thisteam is not built for him. It was a bad trade by Dolan. Cut bait before Melo ends up in SUV’s with interns and/or eating Vasaline on the Internet.
by I know smart people on Jan 19, 2012 11:08 PM EST reply actions
Don't compare the two.
Melo’s got his head on straight.
Stainer of mountaintops.
by Chairman Meow on Jan 19, 2012 11:34 PM EST up reply actions
Even if Melo were as nutty as Marbury
Melo: Possibly focused by a point guard
Marbury: WAS the point guard.
Crucial difference.
It was a mistake to make Melo a ‘captain’ though.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
I don't think it was a mistake necessarily
Carmelo is only 26 years old and as we’ve seen, some players take a little bit to mature and make the right decisions both on and off the court. Guys like Crawford, Zach Randolph as I noted further above, even Lebron and Kobe still make some stupid decisions.
I think Tyson will eventually be promoted to captrain as well, but I think D’Antoni or whoever makes those decisions didn’t want to spite Melo by giving the new guy an immediate position whereas Melo, albeit not very long at all, has been here for nearly a year.
I think he’s still got some growing up to do, but he’ll be alright
KNICKS NOW
http://nyknicksnow.blogspot.com/ - check it out!
BOLD is my middle name
And my laundry detergent.
by I know smart people on Jan 19, 2012 11:17 PM EST reply actions
The biggest problem is the coach
Its one of two things really. Either he is clueless on how to make an offense work without a true PG. Or his idea is good, but the players simply don’t respond to him. Either way, he needs to go. I want a coach that isn’t afraid to get in Melo or STATs face, and is going to hold players accountable. All he does is whine to the refs, and talk about how the Knicks “didn’t hit their shots.” I appreciate what D’Antoni tried to accomplish, but this current team is not a good fit for him. I really want JVG back, although I’m not sure how realistic that is.
I'll take it a step further...
dantoni doesn’t know how to make an offense work without Steve Nash.
You just got Tysoned!!!!!!
yikes
he did well with Jamal Crawford (for those 2 weeks), DuDu (and David Lee), and RayFel. he only knows how to make an offense work with—wait, yea you’re right. Steve Nash.
Jason is being sarcastic, remember last season it was D'Antoni doesn't care about defense
as long as he has a top 5 offense. Ironically D’Antoni hasn’t coached Nash in years and his team scored points.
by Robert Curre on Jan 20, 2012 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
You may be right
But
“Hold Players Accountable”
has to be one of my least favorite oft-used phrases.
Though
“At the end of the day”
takes the cake, I think.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
not an Antrel Rolle fan?
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Jan 20, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
I find it funny
that Seth brings up our points in his blog post and in the comments section we just re-echo them… again.
We must be his Lemmings!!!
My Wife is a Patriot's fan...
by Giantssincesix on Jan 20, 2012 10:48 AM EST reply actions
Seth!
The problem is the B.S. System by D’Antoni and that group of clowns he calls his assistants.
The players are round pegs needed to be put into round holes.
D’Antoni cannot win with this group and his run and get back B.S. system.
Playing Shumpert at point is wrong and having Fields start at the the two is wrong.
So if we brought in a coach and staff that bring offense of running and playing half court defense, we then could excel.
C/T.Chandler PF/A.Stoudemire SF/C.Anthony is a talented line in the right system not D’Antoni.
Shumpert at the starting SG position is the right place for him to excel not just fill a space on the court.
So now our big offense is Stoudemire/Anthony/Shumpert 60+points a game.
Our bench can get fixed next year based on trades/draft/FA.
For now we can start T.Douglas/PG Bench: M.Bibby/PG B.Walker/SG L.Fields/SF J.Harrellson/PF
D’Antoni must go along with his system of B.S. ONLY BEEEN SAY IT FOR TWO YEARS.
I take this as further evidence as what I was saying in the last game log...
The Knicks are struggling on offense because they have no offensive scheme in place. Isolation basketball is what happens when nobody has any idea what to do, so the biggest ball-hog just wings it himself. BAD isolation basketball is what happens when the other team recognizes that pattern, and is able to force that ball-hog into taking impossible heaves, or driving without a lane once he’s committed to that (awful) strategy.
D’Antoni either a) hasn’t had adequate time to teach these players a system, b) has tried to force them into a system that they’re not capable of executing, or c) is just not a good enough coach to reach these players and get them to ignore their own greed long enough to buy into a team concept. I’m not a psychic, so I have no idea which of those things is the issue. But one of them’s got to be.
I’m confident that you could theoretically put Shump, Landry, Melo, Stat and Chandler on the court at the same time and have them run an excellent (Not championship caliber, but certainly playoff-caliber) offense, given the proper system. Having a veteran point guard (B Diddy, where art thou?!) would certainly help, but even without one, if Melo and Stat would spend a little more time using their freakish athletic abilities to cut around confused defenders BEFORE they got the ball, it would make me a happy Knicks fan indeed. They both seem to love the “it’s me against the world!” hopeless Isolation play, but they’d be capable of so much more if they were willing to just be cogs in an offense, rather than trying to be an entire offense by themselves.
this description of Amar'e's and Melo's isos reminds me of a certain type of kid on the playground or in the park, growing up
and we all know or knew somebody like this, and how they’d usually end up looking
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