The Grass Isn't Always Greener - Carmelo Anthony, from the POV of a Nuggets Fan
by Missing Lynx on Jan 20, 2012 12:52 AM EST
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PrintNot even a year away from the big Carmelo Anthony to NY trade, "Melo-Drama" is setting in in the Big Apple. I have to tip my hat to you guys - the way I have seen Anthony's game dissected on your boards (most tellingly after some bad losses) is spot on. Now, you've seen the good and the bad of 'Melo. What will happen from here?
I want to clear up one thing about 'Melo.
He is a winner. He just doesn't have that effort to do all of the little things all the time, like a Kobe - or even a Shane Battier or Udonis Haslem. He has flash, he has skill, but he doesn't have determination.
That doesn't mean he doesn't 'want' it bad enough. He just doesn't seize it, either for reasons of ego due to his own skill, or out of lack of effort and proper execution.
In any case, he is a brilliant offensive player who just doesn't happen to translate into a brilliant basketball player.
His game just isn't complete.
He has the stickiest hands in basketball, and the offense tends to stagnate when it runs through him. He isn't the worst teammate, but he is a bad floor leader and and extremely poor team defender.
He can make some wonderful defensive plays, but just seems to take other plays off and is frequently caught snoozing as his man beats him baseline off the ball or just reaches in while hedging out on pick and rolls.
He has an effect on a team's offense where he will take a few jumpers, and everyone else will tend to treat every trip down the court like 'Melo iso-mode.
The good news? New York will still make the playoffs.
'Melo plays much better when disrespected or his chips are down. As long as he doesn't get run out of NY by the fans and media, he will put the team on his back late in the season if he has to, squeaking into the 7th or 8th seed. But I expect you to round out higher, to six or possibly even five.
Your team is more talented than it is showing, and should get their act together at least somewhat by mid season.
'Melo is sure to have some HUGE games for you. There will certainly be games where some of the nastiness directed his way will recede.
However, get used to one thing: with 'Melo comes a drift towards nigh crippling mediocrity. Welcome to the limbo of the NBA upper-middle class salary burden hell, New York.
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well written with sentiments i share...
good insight into a very good, though clearly not consistently dominant player.
the option to obtain an actual pg
is hereby indicted. baron davis will be the point guard, and it will push us toward high society team salary burden purgatory.
/// aighttho.com \\\/// twitter.com/aighttho \\\
To add
He doesn’t thrive with another ‘star’ on the team. A big reason Denver traded AI for Billups.
Yeah we can argue that STAT isn’t a star, but that is the perception.
My Wife is a Patriot's fan...
It could have.
AI is in that same boat. I guess the media attention I remember was centered more on Melo having to be the man instead of AI.
My Wife is a Patriot's fan...
by Giantssincesix on Jan 20, 2012 9:32 AM EST up reply actions
I think Melo can have an affect on stars
that sometimes makes them feel like they need more isolation plays to be ‘stars’. Maybe that’s just me, that’s pretty subjective analysis.
by Missing Lynx on Jan 20, 2012 6:53 PM EST up reply actions
Where did the lynx go!
Carmelo’s on my grumpy side lately. Too much chucking, and I hate up-chuckers. He’ll sit in time out until he proves himself not-annoying.
Amar’e’s (ha! apostrophes on apostrophes!) pretty damn close, too.
"It was one of those good, deep sleeps; you know, the ones where you wake up and a stream of drool is steadily racing down your shirt? Yes, that kind of sleep." -Landry Fields
by Thelonious Dunk on Jan 20, 2012 9:33 AM EST reply actions
Lol at apostrophes on apostrophes
Yeah, he can be a chucker for better or worse. I don’t hate on Melo, you guys should get that straight. I am thankful for what he did for Denver, and I think that if he wants change, that’s his prerogative.
The upside of having a chucker is that he has NO fear of taking big shots! He does make a heck of a lot of them – the only problem is, if he wasn’t such a chucker during those contested 2nd quarter clunker fadaways, the team would be up by more than 2-8 with 4 minutes to go.
by Missing Lynx on Jan 20, 2012 6:57 PM EST up reply actions
the problem is he sort of plays like every shot could be the last shot.
Hoisting up 26 shots or so a game just isn’t the way to get this offense working together.
I don’t blame Melo or any one player either. I just don’t know what to do.
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Jan 21, 2012 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
Is this the same player the Nuggets and Nuggets fans early last season wanted resigned to a max contract?
Just curious.
by bababooey2 on Jan 20, 2012 10:10 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Ironiclly
The small cadre of Nuggets fans I work with were happy that the got rid of Melo. Small sample size of course.
My Wife is a Patriot's fan...
by Giantssincesix on Jan 20, 2012 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
I think Nuggets fans are fairly divided on this issue
Personally I’m glad to have a change, but as far as “With Melo” and “Without Melo” I appreciate the Nuggets about the same.
I am definitely grateful for what Carmelo Anthony did for our team, don’t get that wrong. I just think its a different way to play and comes with different triumphs and frustrations.
by Missing Lynx on Jan 20, 2012 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
This fits in very well with my observations
I will say that Melo definitely has a chip on his shoulder about defense this year. New York fans and the press guys are very focused on D, and Melo kind of takes his poor reputation personally, which is a good thing.
Unfortunately, for both he and Amar’e, their version of leadership on the court consists of taking matters into their own hands and scoring in isolation.
But you know, it’s not too late for the guy to learn more about how to play basketball. If he can get healthy, I think Davis might be the smartest, purest point guard that Carmelo’s played with, and he has the star power to back up his words and actions on the court.
Thank you for your perspective, Lynx!
Get The Frickin' Rebound
But I love how Missing Lynx waits to write this article to coincide with a Knicks losing streak and a Denver Nuggets hot streak especially after beating the Sixers, playing without Spencer Hawes, in overtime.
He could have also written this after the Nuggets got eliminated in 5 games last year in the first round. Or when they started this season 2-4. But for OBVIOUS reasons, peculiar only to homers/shortsighted fans such as him, he chose not to.
But hey like Christopher Walken in the Dead Zone, I can already envision my own fanpost on Denverstiffs.com after the Nuggets lose to the star-studded Clippers: Why that Yellow Grass Ain’t Turning Green – Danilo Gallinari, from the POV of a Knicks fan.
That fact that You May Be Right about Galinari
Doesn’t make him wrong about Melo. If he had made the same statement before now, what sample size would he have to draw from; ie, what proof would he have for his perspective. And there is nothing stopping you from making your statement on the Stiffs page today. And if the Nuggets were stinking up the house right now, it wouldn’t change the impact that Melo had when he was there. I wanted the Knicks to get Melo, but I knew he had to have a solid guard to be successful. Not like STAT who needs a guard to get the ball into his hands, though. Melo needs a guard to keep the ball out of his hands until it’s time for him to shoot so the offense doesn’t shut down.
Last thing. The only problem you stated with Lynx was when he submitted his post. What do you have to show that what he said was wrong? Just curious.
When I get in the game... win or lose... you know it's pretty much over.
by Hawthorne Nathaniel Wingo on Jan 20, 2012 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
1) His analysis and conclusions are based on a biased, miniscule and flawed data.
2)He doesn’t really believe what he is writing because, statistically speaking, he is more likely to be one of those Nuggets fans who wanted to keep Carmelo Anthony.
1) Human minds are based on biased, flawed data. Get over it.
2) I’m offering my point of view. The reason I posted this now? As I stated in my article: I was impressed by some of the advanced understanding of Melo’s game in such a short sample size. The actual effect that he has on an offense is a subtle thing, and quite nuanced. Anyhow, go ahead and read all of my opinions on Melo if you like. Just check my article and comment history…
by Missing Lynx on Jan 20, 2012 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
What's your deal?
Everything he said is exactly what has happened this season. I’m not sure where the defensive tone is coming from.
Me and my squad build just like contractors
I break s***, you only give hairline fractures
by LatrellSprewell on Jan 21, 2012 1:49 AM EST up reply actions
Are all of your posts about starting a fight?
Just seems like all you do is instigate conflicts.
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Jan 21, 2012 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
Hey Missing Lynx..
if you are reading this show me one statement coming from you exhorting the Nuggets to trade Carmelo Anthony prior to the beginning of last year.
Hey man
I really don’t think that Lynx’s objective was to pour salt in your wound. I found his insight helpful.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
That's fine - you can have your opinion
I thought the post was fair, too. But don’t act surprised when it’s met with some skepticism and more than a couple raised eyebrows. Anytime you go to another team’s blog and comment, it’s gonna raise some concerns.
We aren’t friends – the Nuggets are the enemy – frankly, I don’t give a damn what they think of Carmelo now – he’s our problem. Nobody’s hammering Lynx, but don’t expect hugs and kisses, either.
I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.
The enemy?
lol are you serious?
My Wife is a Patriot's fan...
by Giantssincesix on Jan 20, 2012 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
Geez guys it's the Nuggets. It's not like they're the Red Sox or anything.
I did find it funny how many people kept shitting on the guys we traded to them, and then fell in love with them once they got there.
Fish Fingers give me a break.
Haha, well, every team has its homers.
I’m less interested in arguing which team is better, than actually comparing subjective analysis and points of view.
I believe you can be civil with your ‘enemy’ and learn something from them.
by Missing Lynx on Jan 20, 2012 7:09 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I think you'll find (or already know) that many of us are appreciative of your insight
Hopefully you don’t judge our fanbase based on the few guys who seem to think its Knicks vs the World. Or that you are only allowed to cheer for one team and are required to despise all other competition.
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Jan 21, 2012 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
Absolutely
That’s good to hear. You guys are a great fan base, excited for the game tonight!
by Missing Lynx on Jan 21, 2012 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
I think melo needs a respected, fun pg
Not Chauncy Billups. More like a Baron Davis/Chris Paul guy.
Someone with respect, but more flashy then the Chauncy style PG. I actually think they were not that compatible.
A guy that can take the ball from melo and run the offense who Melo cant really argue with.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
chauncey is a great great player
but he just doesn’t have that bounce about him. both he and baron are killers.
but chauncey uses a knife and baron has a buncha guns
/// aighttho.com \\/// twitter.com/aighttho \\
yeah, Baron will feed Melo and keep him happy, and Melo won't mind when Baron goes in another direction
it’s cool
TYBG
by The Rooster on Jan 20, 2012 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
What if
Baron goes in another direction and decides to shoot… and miss. You don’t think Melo will decide that he needs to take over again?
Asking Melo to change his game is like asking Baron to change his, maybe even worse since Baron is pretty much set in who he is (approaching 33).
Yeah he can dish but he is an inefficient scorer who likes to get his shots in.
Too many factors that make this either way. Hell Baron himself is a player that can go either way, his attitude and determination have never been stellar.
Sure he is studying film and practice and getting excited, but we have seen that before from him. What honestly makes this time so different?
Why do so many people have this positive feeling from BD when his entire history shows:
1) Crappy attitude
2) Injuries
3) Inefficient
Is surgery on a herniated disc a life changing event to make someone change who they are?
My Wife is a Patriot's fan...
by Giantssincesix on Jan 20, 2012 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
Giants, apparently you don't really follow Knicks news. Baron's statements 2 weeks ago basically address your concerns which can be summed up as thus:
1)First time in my life all I have to be is a point guard and not the best or 2nd best player
2)I still feel pretty young and can play for years to come. Re Herniated Disc, " I’ve had this before. No big deal."
3)First time in my life where I feel everyone is ready to sacrifice themselves for the interests of the team
If you want to assume the worst go ahead, but at least acknowledge that the player in question disagrees with you.
Assumption?
How do my concerns point to the conclusion that I do not follow Knicks’ news?
Him saying the right things does not dispute my concerns.
Players say things.
Players say the right things.
Players still do the same things they have always done.
My Wife is a Patriot's fan...
by Giantssincesix on Jan 20, 2012 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
Players still do the same things they have always done.
What exactly do you mean by this? There are plenty of examples over the last 20 years of “star” players accepting “lesser” roles and succeeding in doing so. Or being less combustible than usual or being more involved in a leadership role than previously. Usually these changes take place in the second half or even late in the second half of said star’s career.
I didn't mean accepting the lesser role
For example, I do not see BD all of sudden deciding to be an efficient scorer when has not been one his entire career.
My Wife is a Patriot's fan...
by Giantssincesix on Jan 21, 2012 12:39 AM EST up reply actions
You are right
and that makes it a different senario.
Regardless of how pessimistic I am about BD, I want him to succeed and do well.
My Wife is a Patriot's fan...
by Giantssincesix on Jan 21, 2012 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't call Baron Davis a star by any means.
He is consistently inconsistent. Its always something with him, whether its him being fat, injured, or just not caring. What he says from the sidelines mean nothing. Until I actually see him play, I’m gonna assume that he will be the same uber-talented underachieving chucker.
Me and my squad build just like contractors
I break s***, you only give hairline fractures
by LatrellSprewell on Jan 21, 2012 1:53 AM EST up reply actions
umm
Thats why his signing with the clippers was a disaster, because hes a goddamn liability. You’re delusional if you think that Baron Davis is the key to making this team a contender. He might help a little, but alot of guys on this team have to actually play like their on a team.
Me and my squad build just like contractors
I break s***, you only give hairline fractures
by LatrellSprewell on Jan 21, 2012 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
how can you say that before Baron Davis plays even ONE game for the Knicks?
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Jan 25, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
To be honest, this can work
PG or no PG. Why? The Lakers.
Chandler vs. Bynum? OK, Bynum might be more skilled on offense and just a bigger dude, but I think I’d take Chandler’s defense.
Amare vs. Gasol: Again, Gasol probably is more of a natural on offense, more skill and moves, but we all know Amar’e can do work. He has more balls, but he really does some dumb shit. Gasol’s overall panziness probably matches this.
Melo vs. Kobe: I think Melo has just as much talent as Kobe, but not nearly the determination and knowledge of the game
Obviously this is pointing to the needed Zen Master, and as much as I’ve hated and bashed that idea in the past, with each loss I care less about what happens with the Knicks and just want them to figure something out, anything.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
It seems like in your comparisons, the Lakers players have a reputation for being more complete players.
I know that reputation is based on the past, but the players built their reps on their performance. Also, the Lakers players have already shown they know how to win a championship together, so that’s another difference. I think we can beat the Lakers with D’Antoni or Jackson as coach, but in either case the players have to “allow themselves to be coached”, and that is the one major area where the Lakers have proven themselves and our stars have not.
When I get in the game... win or lose... you know it's pretty much over.
by Hawthorne Nathaniel Wingo on Jan 20, 2012 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
Pau had a well-earned reputation for being "complete" when he was in Memphis
then again, he was in the Barca youth academy while Amare was fucking with IMG
TYBG
by The Rooster on Jan 20, 2012 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
yeah I'd love Phil Jackson
and I still love D’Antoni, but really he should be the one in Montana living on the plains and coaching some D-III team made up of slow white shooters and employing radical schemes to his heart’s content. 2-2 cherry picker zone anyone? Five guards because it’s not like the opposing center’s breaking 6’4" in sneakers anyways? Everyone plays at 150% speed and subs out in waves every two minutes like at Grinnell? Only media in attendance is that one gawky and sweet-hearted 25-year-old guy who might like D’Antoni a little too much? Can we get a “Coach Swap” reality series? Do I sound like a Simmons mailbag “reader” or what?
TYBG
by The Rooster on Jan 20, 2012 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
it wouldnt suprise me
to see Mike D go to a college team (but a D1 team) after his time dealing with the Knicks.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
I can see him going back to Italy to coach
You just got Tysoned!!!!!!
Minn
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
ooh
damn. yeah.
he would fit right in with that team.
ugh. that will be painful to watch.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
He'll end up there if the Knicks give him the boot
Who is standing in his way, Vinnie del Negro? I don’t think so.
I can see him going to Miami and winning a championship after they take a shit again this year
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
i feel like Pat R
will take that over if a new coach is needed…
and he would be the kind of douche that rights his name as Mike _’Antoni.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
I don't think so
according to Riley…an offense depending on the 3 point shot is like fool’s gold. I can’t see them teaming up since thats a big part of dantoni’s attack
You just got Tysoned!!!!!!
i would take chandler over
gasol.
but yeah. other then that.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
I meant that
Bynum > Chandler
Gasol > Amar’e
Kobe > Melo
I don’t think of Gasol as the equivalent to Chandler, but rather Amar’e. Amar’e is a more dominant finisher, but on a team without a PG Gasol’s versatility (and better defense) make him superior.
is it crazy
that I actually think Chandler is our best player?
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
I dunno
He’s an elite role player who is great at what he does, and doesn’t do what he’s not great at. He’d be horrific as the #1 option on a team. But our #1 option(s) insist on doing what they’re not good at, so…
does being the #1 scoring option
always mean they are also the best player?
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Pau Gasol is not better than last year's pre-Melo Amare. Let him rebuild his value.
There is also a chance that Melo is as good as Kobe by end of season.
Well Melo's better than Michael Jordan right now, who is retired
but who cares? Melo at his very peak may be better than creaky old mid/late 30s Kobe? Color me not impressed.
well I guess
but the “equivalents” shouldn’t be this bad.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
The quote about Melo vs. Kobe is spot on IMO
Melo’s tragic flaw is he doesn’t see this.
by Missing Lynx on Jan 20, 2012 7:15 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe in the past he didn't have that determination
but I see it in him more and more, especially when up against teams that he knows are supposed to be the best – maybe he is saving something to elevate his games then, as Kobe has done at times when injured. I can’t speak for his past, but his ego is what is driving him to be a better all-around player now, and not just a scorer and rebounder.
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
See, he does have determination. It just comes and goes.
Just watch his face the next time you play the Raptors or the Wizards and you’ll get what I mean.
by Missing Lynx on Jan 20, 2012 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
I watch it every fourth quarter
the man wants to win
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
I agree with some of your points
but i’m not giving up yet. I think the grass will be greener as the years of the core front line’s contracts roll on. Also, we’ve been in “NBA upper-middle class salary burden hell” for over 10 years, with the exception of clearing space briskly to add actual talent “worthy” of the money – So no welcome necessary chief.
by total hermination on Jan 20, 2012 1:58 PM EST reply actions
Look, I never said that the Knicks won't win a 'ship some day with Melo.
I just am getting the sense that Melo’s chances won’t be better in NY, at least not now, than they were during his years in Denver.
The point of the article to say that the ceiling with Melo is high, but the limitations can be unnerving all the same.
by Missing Lynx on Jan 20, 2012 7:29 PM EST up reply actions
well the roster is recovering from being raped by your front office
so a little time plus Dolan distracted with the Rangers making a case for the Stanley Cup may heal all wounds
by total hermination on Jan 20, 2012 10:23 PM EST up reply actions
ayo lynx
whats yr thoughts on jr smith?
recently knick fans been going ham about some article that was written the day the lockout ended saying we may be after him.
recently i been going ham over this video.
/// aighttho.com \\\/// twitter.com/aighttho \\\
breakin ankles and chuckin up bricks
just like that shitty music playing in the background.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
had to clear that out the dome, but kept singin
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
The ankle breaking was stellar, but it should also be noted that the CBA isn't very good.
I would kinda expect JR Smith to put some NBDL guys on the ground much the same.
Course, sending Stephon was hilarious, but missing the shot was a huge bummer, lol!!
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Jan 21, 2012 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
He is exceptionally talented and athletic, and can shoot you into or out of games
I personally think the Knicks adding him and Kenyon Martin would certainly help. I think JR would love that market – and I think he has the type of shot selection that D’antoni can forgive but George Karl cannot.
George had a very short leash with JR, and it formed him into a more complete player – but with the expense of limiting his minutes and damaging his ego.
by Missing Lynx on Jan 20, 2012 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
as nasty as JR Smith is... I'm not so sure dude would really be as helpful as people might think.
I think as shitty as out offense has been, the LAST thing we need is a another guy who wants to take over the game.
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Jan 21, 2012 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
Just stick with Kenyon Martin then and forget J.R.
He is a defensive captain, and his on-ball post defense at the power forward position would complement Chandler’s weakside shot blocking well.
by Missing Lynx on Jan 21, 2012 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
A friend of a friend of mine lived in a house next to Carmelo Anthony
Kids used to want to see him and peek through the hedges and through the wrought iron gates – just trying to get a glimpse of their idol.
He called the police every time.
Here is my friend’s dedicated civil War Blog.
lol
As messed up as that might sound from a fan’s POV, if I was a mega-star that everyone wanted a piece of I’d be a little skeeved out by some kid always peeking through my bushes and chillin outside my front gate too.
Honestly though, great OP and thanks for coming by with your insight.
I dream of Eddie Curry feeding me fish sticks.
Look at it Dave. Look at it.
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