Ziller: The Knicks' defense isn't as good as it appears on paper.

by Seth on Jan 20, 2012 10:52 AM EST in Miscellaneous

Our collective response to seeing the Knicks move into the top ten in defensive efficiency has been a sort of "Oh, word? Are you sure about that?". New York's D has had its moments, and it's won them some games, but with all that switching, all that trouble with screens in the backcourt, and all of Amar'e Stoudemire's matador tendencies, the defense sure hasn't looked that good for that long.

SB Nation's Tom Ziller dug into that a bit, and as a few of us have guessed, the defensive rating is swayed considerably by the fact that the Knicks just haven't played good teams. Ziller combed the statistics to reveal that these Knicks have held just three teams (one of them being the Sixers, so that's cool) to five or more points below their offensive rating, while allowing five teams to produce well above their typical offensive output.

Basically, New York's defensive rating is an "all things being equal" number, and all things are not, in fact, equal. Even still, Ziller notes that the numbers project the Knicks to fall around 17th or 18th in the league in defense once they've got tougher opponents behind them, which would be an improvement over last season, when the New York D ranked 22nd out of 30 in efficiency (although one hopes that the defense will improve to prevent that drop in ranking). And, of course, we're still holding out hope that New York's offense, with time and the addition of Baron Davis, will return to form.

For now, though, all the numbers say the Knicks suck, and even the ones that say they don't suck secretly say they suck. Excellent!

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Nah, the defense is much improved and will get much better as we gel over time.

And I think our offesnive inefficiency has led to a ton of points, most of which probably wouldn’t have happened off made shots. We’re never gonna be tops in the league, but i’m good with what we have once things solidify a bit and our offense improves.

by Crackback on Jan 20, 2012 11:10 AM EST reply actions

Yeah

I think the upshot is that the defense IS improved, but it’s not as massively improved as the efficiency rankings would tell you. A number of teams have actually scored well above average against these Knicks.

Posting and Toasting: DWTDD.

by Seth on Jan 20, 2012 11:16 AM EST up reply actions

That's a good point...

about how our awful O might be affecting our D numbers. If our shooting percentage goes up, that probably takes some transition attempts away from our opponents and helps are defensive numbers. Not to mention the turnovers leading to other teams’ breaks.

This is actually the first time in a lonnng time that we have several regular rotation players that are actually good defenders: Chandler, Shump, Jorts surprisingly, JJ, TD at times, etc.

by Zhantee on Jan 20, 2012 12:01 PM EST up reply actions

That might have been Felton's last assist and Chandler's last basket as Knicks

KNICKS NOW
http://nyknicksnow.blogspot.com/ - check it out!

by WSD on Jan 20, 2012 3:21 PM EST up reply actions

I still believe that the Knicks have a chance to be really good this year

Fact is, it’s still early in the season, their defense looks at least 10 times better than last year and we’ve got a real point guard coming in possibly next week. This is the time for them to start turning things around and beating the teams their supposed to beat like Phoenix, Charlotte, Golden State, Milwaukee, and etc.

by djp425 on Jan 20, 2012 11:56 AM EST reply actions

I still think they can be a 3-5 seed come playoff time.

by djp425 on Jan 20, 2012 11:57 AM EST up reply actions

I don't care what seed we are as long we're playing well

As long as we make the playoffs, it’s not how you start the year but how you finish it. The Mavs had stretches last year where they were pretty terrible, if I remember.

by Jeff Van Gumby on Jan 20, 2012 1:41 PM EST up reply actions

When we have a real pg (Davis) running things with our incredible front court of Melo, Amar'e, Tyson this team can be really, really dangerous.

by djp425 on Jan 20, 2012 12:00 PM EST reply actions

I really really hope so...

but not until our shooting improves from just about the entire team. And it’s not just cuz we’re forcing shots… cuz we’re missing most of the wide open looks at well (as mentioned when talking about how we never seem to capitalize on momentum).

by Zhantee on Jan 20, 2012 12:02 PM EST up reply actions

forget the D the the knicks as a whole looks better on paper that they really are...the real problem is the coach.d'antoni just cant pit the recibe he has together to make great tasting stew so the bes t bet is to replace the chef

hustle and hustle with muscle

by bins12 on Jan 20, 2012 12:04 PM EST reply actions

Yea, good point. I think another huge problem is D'antoni giving Douglas and Shump to take so many damn shots. Idk about you guys, but I

by djp425 on Jan 20, 2012 12:04 PM EST reply actions

preffer to have melo and amar'e taking and missing some shots than those two combining for 35 attempts per game...

by djp425 on Jan 20, 2012 12:05 PM EST up reply actions

I absolutely agree I'd be looking at making Woodson the head coach or anyone not named Mike D'antoni.

by djp425 on Jan 20, 2012 12:06 PM EST reply actions

xactly anyone but d'antoni i never liked him a coach.he is not a winner period he might be entertaining but thats not what we need.we need to win when it counts.

hustle and hustle with muscle

by bins12 on Jan 20, 2012 12:20 PM EST up reply actions

I fear Woodson might be the problem

The iso-loving Woodson as assistant coach of a team that suddenly has the most isos

NBA Team Analysis and Player Comparison

by mindfeck on Jan 20, 2012 2:30 PM EST up reply actions

Woodson is a lazy answer to a crucial problem (if not, as you said, also part of the problem)

If we don’t at least shop around for other coaches, I’ll be livid.
I don’t like him even being in the running, because it’s laziest possible option and he’d probably be picked for the wrong reasons. No entitlement clause for assistants!

by mp987987 on Jan 20, 2012 2:55 PM EST up reply actions

well that would mean Woodson

is in charge of the offense and defense then. What is dantoni doing then??

You just got Tysoned!!!!!!

by Jason Bee on Jan 20, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions

You'd need to ask an insider

My guess would be angrily telling them what they’re doing wrong in his system, while no one listens

NBA Team Analysis and Player Comparison

by mindfeck on Jan 20, 2012 3:11 PM EST up reply actions

I don't get why no one has given Patrick Ewing a shot as a head coach

I mean the guy is in the Hall of Fame he obviously knows the game of basketball well so I’d be giving him a look as well…

by djp425 on Jan 20, 2012 12:08 PM EST reply actions

patrick should have been back years ago.though it was his fault when he left in the first place.the fack is who would we rather ruin the knicks dolan,thomas ,d'antoni or ewing

hustle and hustle with muscle

by bins12 on Jan 20, 2012 12:23 PM EST up reply actions

Utah shopping Devin Harris.

Anybody know what it would take?

by bababooey2 on Jan 20, 2012 12:21 PM EST reply actions

More than we want to give up

by Kupe on Jan 20, 2012 12:23 PM EST via Android app up reply actions

we dont have cap room to make any meaningful trades

hustle and hustle with muscle

by bins12 on Jan 20, 2012 12:27 PM EST up reply actions

yeah i forgot about that one.

by bababooey2 on Jan 20, 2012 12:45 PM EST up reply actions

or at least matching salaries.

by bababooey2 on Jan 20, 2012 12:45 PM EST up reply actions

I'd give em Jeffries and one of Dolan's saxophones

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Jan 20, 2012 2:40 PM EST up reply actions

What would it take to get a $9 million dollar shoot-first PG shooting 35%?

Not even James Dolan is that dumb

by flossy on Jan 20, 2012 3:11 PM EST up reply actions

One Post: our Offense sucks; Next Post: our Defense sucks

I’m glad we (the media and the fans) are all starting to be a little more realistic about our Knicks this season. I was concerned (and super excited, don’t get me wrong) out of the gate when we were being touted as serious EC contenders, top of the atlantic, and 3-seed for the playoffs, before the season started. Not because I thought we had no chance of doing so but because it’s dangerous to build overconfidence through sheer unbacked speculation.

Now that we’re getting more realistic, we have a better shot of being a 3-seed than ever. Time to fix what’s broken.

by mp987987 on Jan 20, 2012 1:19 PM EST reply actions

I'm still no too worried....

and I’m going to keep posting that every few days or so…. just so I feel better….

Seriously, only time will tell but I think Baron is going to help a lot on the offensive end and that once our offensive woes get straightened out our defense will fall into place. I mean regardless our defense is already much improved.

by robk on Jan 20, 2012 1:34 PM EST up reply actions