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The Knicks have run a relatively infrequent, unbalanced pick-and-roll.

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Ian Levy of Hickory High put together a nice little summary of NBA teams' application of the pick-and-roll-- how often they use it, how effectively they use it, and how those numbers break down into plays finished by the ball-handler versus those finished by the friend setting the screen. If you're interested, I recommend that you take a look at the graphs and poke around in the chart yourself, but here are the numbers of note regarding our Knicks:

- 15.1 percent of Knick plays include a pick-and-roll, which puts them 23rd overall in pick-and-roll frequency.

- 78.8 percent of Knick pick-and-rolls end with the ball-handler trying to score, which is the second-highest frequency in the league. Knick pick-and-roll ballhandlers average 0.82 points per possession (PPP), which puts them ninth in the league.

- Thus, 21.2 percent of Knick pick-and-rolls end with the screener trying to score, which is the second-lowest frequency in the league. Knick pick-and-roll screeners average 1.16 PPP, which is the fifth-best number in the league.

- The Knicks' overall pick-and-roll PPP collapsed across finisher is 0.89, which is eighth best in the league.

So, if I may attempt to simply the above: The Knicks run one of the league's better pick-and-rolls, but they run it very infrequently. When they do run the pick-and-roll, they almost always let the ball-handler finish, and he does so relatively effectively. On the rare occasions that the Knicks feed the screener, he finishes even more effectively (and relatively more effectively when compared to his counterparts).

Now, my Synergy account isn't up and running yet, so I can't compare the above data to previous years' data (and I'd probably be too lazy to do that even if it were), but I think it's safe to guess that 1. The Knicks would like to run a lot more pick-and-rolls. and 2. The Knicks would like to run a lot more pick-and-rolls that feed the screener.

And that's why a lot of us are hoping Baron Davis can reinvigorate this offense upon returning. He isn't an elite pick-and-roll one by any means, but it seems reasonable to expect an offense with a truer, more polished point guard to run Mike D'Antoni's most beloved play more frequently than eighth-to-last in the league and more effectively (particularly in terms of hitting the man rolling to the basket) than the Knicks have been thus far. And the funny thing is that it seems they HAVE been running it effectively, just not frequently and not with the ideal balance.

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There should not be more picks & rolls if they keep executing so poorly

Under 1 point per possession is very inefficient so you don’t want that to happen much more. The ball handler finishing a pick & roll instead of the screener will always be less than ideal. You know Melo is often the ball handler and he’s gonna shoot. He should be passing inside to Amar’e.

by mindfeck on Jan 23, 2012 10:52 AM EST reply actions  

The problems with a Melo/Amar'e pick and roll are many

1) They don’t create much of a mismatch when they force a switch, at least not nearly as much as when a PG/Amar’e or Melo/Chandler run the same play.

2) Tyson Chandler’s man just sits in the paint waiting for Amar’e, because Tyson Chandler can’t do anything on offense except dunk. This is one of the reasons a Melo/Chandler pick and roll is easier—because Stat’s jumper gets enough respect that his man doesn’t leave him alone on the weakside.

3) Amar’e likes to slip a pick and quickly flash to the basket, which means he’ll usually be wide open for a dunk but the timing has to be just so. Neither Melo, Toney Douglas or Iman Shumpert have the passing skills to thread the needle consistently. Chandler, on the other hand, sets a hard pick and rolls to the rim only after the ball handler has gone around it, and even better, if Chandler’s man hedges too much and the switch isn’t done right you can basically just lob it over the top of the defense somewhere near the basket and he’ll go up and throw it down. It’s pretty idiot-proof, especially since Amar’e’s man is usually not close enough to meet him as I mentioned.

The problem is, we’re paying Amar’e $20 mil per year to be the most dominant PnR finisher in the NBA. So if Baron Davis does literally nothing else, he needs to figure out how to make that work.

by flossy on Jan 23, 2012 11:08 AM EST up reply actions  

I think it boils down to #3

Melo can’t make that pass, yet

2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!

by astromets on Jan 23, 2012 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Interesting points - some responses

1) While it would obviously be better if they could create more mismatches, I don’t think this is a reason to shy away from Melo-Amare PnRs. Amare is fairly effective at finishing PnRs even if his original defender sticks with him (at least based on my personal recollections).

2) This is a good point, but it strikes me as an opportunity to get an easy bucket. If the Knicks get their spacing right, the result may end up being either Chandler getting an easy bucket when his man leaves him to pick up Amare, or Amare having an easier path to the hole. Obviously this relies on practicing the pass from Amare to Chandler, and they may not be able to get it down in a season where practice time is so limited.

If your comment is meant to be a defense of the Melo-Chandler PnR vs. the Melo-STAT PnR though, I have no argument against continuing to do it with Chandler. I just think both can be effective, even though they’re different (as you point out, Chandler sets better picks with different timing, and Amare’s jumper is better so his placement would be different than Chandler’s when they’re not the one setting the pick). Hopefully Davis can help make them both effective. And obviously when Melo initiates it he has to work on making the pass more often.

by Joamiq on Jan 23, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not advocating for one over the other

just laying out reasons why the only PnR connection that has worked even somewhat is Melo/Chandler.

But I actually think it’s far, far more important that somebody (Davis) and Amar’e get PnR chemistry going because if Stat isn’t scoring off that play on the regular he is a $20mil liability.

by flossy on Jan 23, 2012 3:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I suspect, however

that PPP is down across the league right now due to the lockout, so we might have to recalibrate our expectations of what signals good execution.

by Joamiq on Jan 23, 2012 3:10 PM EST up reply actions  

PPP is usually close to 1.1

So I already lowered my expectations for mediocre this season as 1.

by mindfeck on Jan 23, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Our PPP with the screener attempting to score though

Is clearly pretty efficient by either standard. I don’t think anyone’s advocating for more ballhandler shot attempts off pick and rolls.

by Joamiq on Jan 24, 2012 11:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Awesome Play...

if we ever ran it….I have yet to see Shump initiate the PNR with STAT on a consistent basis and I am beginning to ask why…WWTDD is terrible at it and with Iman being 6"5 and being able to see the court its seems like the most logical play to be run all the time….Pringles is too dependent on Melo and thats why were in a rut…it almost looks like hes sacrificed his offense to accomodate Melos ISO strengths

STATS suffering because the ISOs stop ball movement and make players stagnant offensively…remember last year when all STAT would do is make diagonal cuts to the basket for quick jumpers or hard drives? what happend to that? AND, why dont we run curls or pop outs more often with Melo?

Seth- can you also take a look at getting some stats on our D? like how many times do we switch defensively and how it stacks up against the entire L? or how many times we run a zone? Tyson excelled at that 2-3 zone in Dallas, I think we’ve run it once the entire season

''Why would I want to help them win a title? They're not doing anything for me. I'm at risk. I have a lot of risk here. I got my family to feed.'' -LS the REAL#8

by youngjedifresh on Jan 23, 2012 11:00 AM EST reply actions  

Those are depressing numbers.

I’m sure most of us play pick-up frequently. Many times we end up playing with complete strangers, and yet I’m sure all of us have been able to run a successful pick n roll in a pick up game.

I know, I know. It’s different when there’s an NBA level defense trying to stop it. But hey, these are supposed to be NBA level offensive players, right?

It’s one of the easiest freakin’ plays in the world. I just don’t understand why we struggle with it.

Dirt strong, son.

by StarksMiddleFinger on Jan 23, 2012 11:27 AM EST reply actions  

Is it just me, or is Chandler...

… getting open a lot when he slips the screen just above the foul line? And he never gets a pass! The only time the guards feed him is for the oops. Seems this holds potential for some points in the paint.

by TominMaine on Jan 23, 2012 1:26 PM EST reply actions  

I feel like there's lots of opportunities...

that Shump’s not seeing, TD’s definitely not seeing cause he’s got his head down, and Carmelo’s too busy shooting to see… Hopefully BD’s got better vision.

by robk on Jan 23, 2012 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

BTW, here's an explanation of why iso is not successful

http://82games.com/dribbles.htm

It specifically cites a George Karl offense where ball movement is emphasized as being better, and also produces more points per possession. Of course D’Antoni also utilized this philosophy e past two seasons before Carmelo came, and especially before Mr. Potato Head was hired as assistant coach.

Also, the worst effectiveness comes from the most dribbling. Note how much the Knicks dribble, and how Amar’e needs to dribble to get closer, and it often leads to turnover.

by mindfeck on Jan 23, 2012 3:50 PM EST reply actions  

ball handlers need some ground rules

guy in the paint means automatic dish for the swish.
guy in the elbow means wait for the screen, let him curl. wait for the switch then dish or swish.

granted its the kind of offense we’ve seen in the past, but its the new pieces :coughsneezefart: melo that tends to hold the ball too long, dribble-jabstep-fake-and-miss, and miss the cutter.

we SAW what they were capable of on saturday with melo sitting. shit, even he had to have seen it. they were passing to the hot hand (bully) the entire stretch.

by renovator on Jan 24, 2012 7:41 AM EST up reply actions  

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