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Cavaliers 91, Knicks 81: "Hello, old friend."

So, uh, I suppose the suspicions that New York's rousing victory last night was largely the result of a terrible, short-handed opponent were right on point. Against a better defensive team with folks who actually liked hitting shots sometimes, our old friend returned, just like ny knickerbocker said in the thread. The lazy, sloppy ball movement, the settling for ill-fated threes, the careless switching on defense, and the overall lack of any discernible will all resurfaced at even the slightest display of resistance from the opponent. There's absolutely no reason for a team capable of the things we saw last night (and in stretches of tonight's first half) to whither so completely against the Cavaliers-- an un-terrible but totally vulnerable team-- but that's just how it's been so far this season.

Take the jump for some quick notes.

Star-divide

- The Knicks had a turnover on their very first possession and I cheered a little bit because I thought it was the Cavs. It was an honest mistake, given that the Knicks were forced to wear their home uniforms because Cleveland wanted to wear those ugly-ass blue jerseys, but it put the wrong idea in their heads. New York went on to charge, travel, stumble, and whiff their way to 21 more turnovers, and it was all my fault. I'm sorry.

- Carmelo Anthony struck a better balance between clearing out for his own party and sharing the ball with others, but had even more shit on his hands (tape on his right thumb now, too) and shot just 5-14.

- Amar'e Stoudemire had some splendid plays, including a couple made jumpers, some dribble moves past Anderson Varejao, and even a couple finishes off slipped screens with Melo. He also did plenty of plainly dumb things, like drive directly into Varejao, or directly into the baseline, or directly through your TV screen and onto the floor of your living room. In any event 9-19 for 19 points (just 1 free throw) and 14 rebounds isn't wonderful, but it's solid, and it's an improvement compared to his previous body of work this season.

- Ew, six turnovers though. Just saw that. Yuck.

- Iman Shumpert and Toney Douglas, between them, did very few good things and very many bad things. Neither created the space to penetrated and kick, which is a part of the reason the Knicks didn't get points in transition (Douglas runs a fast break about as poorly as it can be run. It makes me question not just his point guard skills but, like, his basic understanding of angles, object constancy, gravity, and basic arithmetic.) and missed damn near all their threes.

- 3-20, that is. And they weren't good looks.

- Mike Breen happened to complain about the incessant music in Quicken Loans Arena (and, indeed, it was irritating even on TV), but happened to do so during "Papa Was a Rolling Stone". He should know by now not to speak ill of The Temptations around Clyde.

- Tyson Chandler had a couple of nice finishes and a nice defensive play or two, but this was a relatively weak game for him. Varejao beat him to quite a few rebounds (the big dust mop had 8 offensive boards) and baited him into a couple overplays and fouls.

- Oh, and part of tonight's loss must be blamed on whatever witch granted Samardo Samuels and Ryan Hollins the ability to hid mid-range jumpers. I know that big men going off against Stoudemire is a thing, but that's just absurd and unfair and possibly a felony.

- A line taken from my notes, verbatim: "WHAT THE FUCK SAMARD SAMUELS SHOOT JUPERS". I was alarmed.

- Is Jared Jeffries back to the thing where he hits one three a night, then misses two or three more off, like, the back of the backboard? If so, I APPROVE. (Also, pretty good game, Jared. Nice help defense, nice charges drawn, and a gritty return to the floor despite back spasms.

- It should be mentioned that things got momentarily fun around the early second quarter. Two lineups-- one anchored by only Amar'e and another anchored by only Melo-- took the Knicks on like a 15-2 or 17-2 run. Landry Fields did some great things in transition and away from the ball to fill out that run. Then the Cavs came back and the game pretty much ended in the second quarter. New York didn't look even remotely interested in winning after the Cleveland counter-run.

- Alonzo Gee has, like, knuckles on his arms. His muscles have smaller muscles of their own or something.

And that's probably it! It was a really bad basketball game. I didn't like it one bit. I'd like to stop thinking about it and eat these candies now. Good night!

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Comments

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Really bad.

Watching Lakers- Clippers now and this game makes me feel like I was watching the Knicks in slow motion.

by robk on Jan 26, 2012 12:33 AM EST reply actions  

same it reminds me of watchin a mark sanchez led jets offense

then i put other nfl games and offenses look so beautiful thats wat’s happening here too! thats it toney douglas is our mark sanchez!

by abe88 on Jan 26, 2012 12:34 AM EST up reply actions  

True

Let’s start him for 3 more years and call him the franchise, and keep boasting we’re going to win the NBA championship then get eliminated from playoff contention by the Nets.

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 26, 2012 9:41 AM EST up reply actions  

lol well,

at least there are guys in the locker room to give Sanchez the routine ‘fuck you’. Get Santonio Holmes’ ass in the Knicks locker room and we’ll see a couple of immediate injuries and then maybe a better ball club. He can visit once a week to sort shit out

by mp987987 on Jan 26, 2012 9:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeap

I’m watching Blazers-Warriors and it feels like a video game.

by Seth on Jan 26, 2012 12:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Lakers - Clippers is getting pretty great btw...

McRoberts just got tossed. 4 point game in the 4th.

by robk on Jan 26, 2012 12:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Watching the Clippers has kept me sane

I like the amount of national TV they’re getting, and it’s a better time for me usually bc west coast games are later

by mp987987 on Jan 26, 2012 12:42 AM EST up reply actions  

I find it stupid that the home team wore away colors.

Knicks in 60 is just as stupid. The Knicks can be a real bummer sometimes.

Did this dude just did this?

by Rubbercons on Jan 26, 2012 12:34 AM EST reply actions  

Seth do you have any inkling as to why Novak doesn't get any real playing time, or is this just silly?

Is there something I’m not getting? Because to me, it’s insane that he delivers on exactly what we need, and what we got him for, and he doesn’t see more time. He’s 8 of 16 from 3 and has only turned the ball over twice in 8 games all season. And he’s only 28?!

by mp987987 on Jan 26, 2012 12:54 AM EST reply actions  

Can't say without having seen him in practice...

The rap is usually that he can’t do anything other than shoot, although it seems to me like he’d still serve a purpose. It might just be that without a point guard, there aren’t good looks available. Even a bomb-ass shooter is gonna struggle without anybody creating for him.

by Seth on Jan 26, 2012 12:56 AM EST up reply actions  

protect him from the arrhythmia

see what i did there?
no, but he should really get more minutes. Thanks for your insight!

by mp987987 on Jan 26, 2012 1:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Um, Seth....

They could be losing games – oh…..

KNICKS NOW
http://nyknicksnow.blogspot.com/ - check it out!

by WSD on Jan 26, 2012 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Feel like he could've helped in the 4th tonight...

Nobody could hit a 3 and nobody was playing defense so he couldn’t have hurt us too bad… He was like butter in garbage minutes the other night….

by robk on Jan 26, 2012 12:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Novak over TD anyday

Melo was actually setting up open 3’s for TD and the dude just can’t make shit in right now. We already have a gimped out Melo on the court, why use have a crappy shooter with him? So we can score even less points? Melo right now can’t hit any shot aside from a lay up with his hand all messed up.

by lololol on Jan 26, 2012 1:06 AM EST up reply actions  

They keep saying Novak can’t play defense but is a good three point shooter. I just don’t understand how much it can hurt to play him for a few minutes. If he is that bad, let them have Jeffries, and shump in there to help on defense and have Amare in that unit to take away attention. He would knock down a few trays in every game but they are not playing him. TD is normally a better shooter than that but he can’t hit consistently right now., I wish Jorts was playing as he is our best outside shooter among the rotation players. Novak should get a few minutes with stat or Melo so he can knock down a couple of those threes. At least in the first half to get something going and even if it’s just 5 minutes. The guy is over 40% and can hit them even when he hasn’t played much.

by RASHADI on Jan 26, 2012 4:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Better then TD right now

He cant play D or shoot.

I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."

by gbaked on Jan 26, 2012 9:27 AM EST up reply actions  

In a zone though

he won’t have to guard the point especially if shump is the other guy on the perimeter. His length would help a lot at the perimeter

Proud die-hard of the NFC West Champion San Francisco 49ers!
Whose got it better than us??? NOBODY!

by MetsKnicksRutgers on Jan 26, 2012 10:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Didnt the mavs run it

the majoirty of the time last year? And with a
:
Shump/Bibby
Novak
Melo
Amare
Chandler

lineup for the first 6 minutes, we can hopefully build a decent little lead and get Amare and Melo feeling a little confidence because they have some more room to operate. Especially with Bibs who as bad as he has been is still a better facilitator, we could bring shump off the bench as a hopeful spark. I also think with some offensive rhythm bibby will find his shot a little more. Every shot he takes this year has seemed a little forced or rushed. If the ball moves, his shots will hopefully be more in the flow of the offense, similar to Novak

Proud die-hard of the NFC West Champion San Francisco 49ers!
Whose got it better than us??? NOBODY!

by MetsKnicksRutgers on Jan 26, 2012 12:11 PM EST up reply actions  

The Mavs were very good at switching from zone to man

So they did not run it consistently every time down the floor. The problem with zone defenses in the NBA is that once a team recognizes the zone most NBA teams have the ability to push the ball and attack the zone before it is set and have enough shooters to break a zone. Also zones expose you to offensive rebounding issues and in the NBA you will give up second chance points if you give an opponent 2 or 3 cracks at it per possession. Yes you could hide a bad defensive group for short periods in a zone, but you will have to mix up your zone looks and mix it with man defense. Frankly Novak doesn’t give you enough offense to be worth all of that trouble.

by Robert Curre on Jan 26, 2012 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Novak forced Kemba Walker into an airball the other night

Granted, it was in garbage time against an exhausted rookie, but nonetheless, he showed an ability to stay in front of a man.

Amar’e can’t guard a rock, and Fields missed assignments left and right last night, particularly on Anthony Parker. I don’t think there’s too much to lose in having Steve play 10-15 minutes

KNICKS NOW
http://nyknicksnow.blogspot.com/ - check it out!

by WSD on Jan 26, 2012 1:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I like how every game....

We come up with player that we fixate on that will most definitely be our saviour. I think we have been through everybody on the bench at this point. It was Humpty then Lin then Bibby then Jorts and now it’s Novak. Next week is Jerome Jordan’s turn…

I think this is kind of the definition of desperation…. Not that I don’t think Novak should get some burn!

by robk on Jan 26, 2012 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

i think that is what everyone is saying tho

well I know I am…get Vak some minutes…10 -15 ….especially since we’re struggling to score points. I don’t think anyone is looking toward him as a savior….

You just got Tysoned!!!!!!

by Jason Bee on Jan 26, 2012 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I've never seen so much love for a career garbage time player.

The guy had one season where he played significant minutes and his 3pt% was the lowest that year. My guess? He’s completely out of shape, has no redeeming qualities other than an occasional 3 point make in the limited time he plays.

by erniesto on Jan 26, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Umm, I'll field this one...

That’s all we hope to get out of him. And it’s what we need. If he can hit even one big shot, that could be another win. You know that’s how this works right?

by mp987987 on Jan 26, 2012 6:06 PM EST up reply actions  

At least Melo is starting to figure out how to run the offense

and working Amare into it while taking decent shots and not chucking shit up…Hopefully his hand grows back

by lololol on Jan 26, 2012 12:57 AM EST reply actions  

if melo is injured

why is he playing? i mean he clearly cant shoot for shit at the moment and his hands are taped all over! wtf is he doing on the court? the season goes til april! fucks sake take a couple of games off! its this hero/ saviour bullshit. another reason to hate the bastard.

by patrickm23 on Jan 26, 2012 1:56 AM EST reply actions  

Because an injured melo is still the second/third best player on the team. (depending if anyone else shows up)

by lololol on Jan 26, 2012 2:06 AM EST up reply actions  

Because Melo is hurt not injured. Jorts is injured.

Professional Athletes play through pain all the time. If you guys believe this is the first time Melo is playing with body parts hurting you are fooling yourself. Really he played most of last season with a gimpy knee and a wounded elbow on his shooting hand no less. Both needed surgery in the off season. The rule is, if the guy has pain but can play through it he plays. There are a ton of guys in the league playing hurt right now. Vareljo had 16 rebounds last night and he is playing with an aching back, a bad knee and a shoulder that hurts so bad he winces when he brushes his teeth. If it hurts to use a body part but you can still use it, you play. You only play if the body part no longer works or if using it will make it worse.

by Robert Curre on Jan 26, 2012 10:16 AM EST up reply actions  

really?

really? he’s shooting like absolute shit. the choice you have is sit for a couple of games now, get him right, and then play him, or play him banged up all season and he’s useless/ actually harmful to the team.

mind you though i’m not putting this particular loss on him – we were ok until toney douglas started running the point.

this team is dogshit right now.

by patrickm23 on Jan 26, 2012 2:13 AM EST reply actions  

missed the reply button

obviously i’ve been taking lessons from the knicks!

by patrickm23 on Jan 26, 2012 2:13 AM EST up reply actions  

yup, i agree

He should have sat out a few games and especially against the weaker teams but he won’t do it. I guess it’s a pride thing where he shows how loyal he is and how hard of worker he is but sometimes one has to swallow arrogance. wade hasn’t played in like 6 games and the team is not rushing to bring him back. Dirk is sitting out so he can rest and so is vince carter but this dude won’t listen. It could hurt him in the long run if he doesn’t let his body heal right.

by RASHADI on Jan 26, 2012 3:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Well that’s largely on the coach to tell him to sit. Most player don’t like not playing.

by lololol on Jan 26, 2012 9:28 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

actually i'm being unfair

i see the strategy – we are only a couple of losses out of being in the bottom 5 teams in the league. keep this up and we get our own draft pick!

by patrickm23 on Jan 26, 2012 2:23 AM EST reply actions  

this year's pick goes to houston from the jeffries trade

except it’s top 5 protected. my point is the way we are going we might actually get to keep it…

by patrickm23 on Jan 26, 2012 4:55 AM EST up reply actions  

With our luck

we’d get pushed out of the lottery even with the 5th worst record.

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 26, 2012 9:44 AM EST up reply actions  

right

the way this season is looking, they may as well settle for that.

by RASHADI on Jan 27, 2012 1:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Somebody is goin' to be traded out of NY, someone knows who, we all know why....

And if there is just 1% true about D12… Well, im paying the one way tickets to Orlando… With D12 in the middle at least im not gonna worry about Varejao of Boris DIaw, or those Dj’s from the Bobcats… Not to mention Gortat from the Suns…

by Martian78 on Jan 26, 2012 3:01 AM EST reply actions  

Poor Mike

listening to the MDA post-game interview and all i could see is he looks tired and beaten up. I don’t mean tired from lack of sleep but from how things are going. It has to be frustrating on the man as he is accustomed to coaching high scoring teams who move the ball and make shots. This team is not doing it and probably never will. The man looks done and I would be shocked if he returned next year with anew contract even if he were offered one, and for the Phil Jackson dreamers, it’s not happening either. This will only get uglier after MDA and then they will scream "fire’ the next coach. MDA knows how to get the best out of Amare and has the system for that but the team is not doing it and there is no true pg.

I no longer believe even Baron, who I love, can solve this problem. This is not working and it’s obvious. We can’t beat teams even when injured. That same Phoenix team that we lost to, and made 38 year old Nash look like he still in his prime, was blown out by the Bulls the night before who were playing without Rose and other players. The Nets recently also beat the Suns but we say they are ‘good" and I can’t accept that. We struggle even against the sub-500 teams and I am done with the excuses or getting hyped. I figure we will win because the next team we playing has injuries to their best players yet we still lose. Jennings beat us by himself. Bargaini beat us by himself and it seems like it only takes one person from each team to beat us and they do this even when Melo, stat and Chandler score in double digits.

I think not having a point guard is a major part of this but there is more to it than just that, and this is a concern to me. I have lost my optimism and just don’t see it getting better. another lost season and may only get worse. Oh, and we have the worst owner in the league.

by RASHADI on Jan 26, 2012 3:52 AM EST reply actions  

Yep

I was saying this exact thing 4 weeks ago after the GS defeat, and 99% of the people here accused me of being histerical and negative, that this team needs time etc etc.. No my friend, this team with bellow mediocre players like Fields, Douglas, Jeffries, Walker, Balkman… and done players like Bibby is not going anywhere, with “big 3” that is actualy a Chinese replica of genuine BIG 3 ( offensively handicaped center that can’t hit a 5ft jumper, PF that is long past his prime due to serious knee problems and SG that plays for himself only). So once again, if there is slightest chance that D12 trade can happen, GET HIM!!! He is Amar’e and Chandler in 1 player, and given the court facts that we see, even better then those 2 together. Im sorry for Amar’e, i realy like him, but im Knicks fan and i want whats best for my team.

by Martian78 on Jan 26, 2012 7:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Whose gonna get the ball to Dwight?

Sorry Pal but you gotta work with what’s here. All you will do is get Dwight and then whine and bitch when the team still doesn’t win and Dwight is averaging 10 points because he can only get 5 shots a game!

by Robert Curre on Jan 26, 2012 10:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Dwight better work on becoming a point guard

because honestly he may not see the ball if he doesn’t bring it up the court himself!

by Robert Curre on Jan 26, 2012 10:50 AM EST up reply actions  

I'd bring in Dwight Howard to play PG!

Just hold the ball up high, Dwight!!

"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire

by Chris Child's Fist on Jan 26, 2012 11:21 AM EST up reply actions  

Our home jerseys are the bane of our existence

if we can play in our Away Uni’s for the rest of the season, we might be able to break .500 come playoff time.

by blackhova on Jan 26, 2012 7:28 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

Hey guys..

Don’t despair!

We got a silver medal in the most valuable NBA Franchise. Thanks for being such a great business man Dolan!

Most valuable NBA Franchise

I mean who needs championships when you can make money and suck at the same time. That is pure business genius!

He must take tips from Dan Snyder or vice versa.

My Wife is a Patriot's fan...
"Giants rely on fumbles and stripping the ball. If the pats secure the ball, then the pats win, but if they fumble or let the ball get striped than the giants win. every game the giants play they always benefit from the other teams bonehead mistakes (fumbled or striped) not from thier skills. The giants are a dirty team, I can’t think of any othe team as dirty as the giants. They try to strip the ball as hard as they can because they know they can’t win a fair game." by EaglesNeedD on Jan 23, 2012 2:01 AM EST

by Giantssincesix on Jan 26, 2012 8:33 AM EST reply actions  

Sick

Just cant stomach this Horrible Horrible Nastiness

by Aaron Dominic Hollingsworth on Jan 26, 2012 8:58 AM EST reply actions  

Novak!!

why doesn’t dantoni get him burn? wtf?? it’s not like Billy, Bibby or Jeffires is killing it out there. This guy needs to get minutes especially since we’re shooting so horribly from downtown. He could prob give what Shawne did last year, but he’s actually a better shooter. Shawne wasn’t that great on defense either…

You just got Tysoned!!!!!!

by Jason Bee on Jan 26, 2012 9:10 AM EST reply actions  

i really dont understand whu

People keep lumping walker in with Bibby, TD, Balk etc. Walked plays pretty good D and even if his shot isn’t falling he really helps out on the glass.

Its abundantly clear that when we shoot even moderately well, we blow bad teams out and can beat good teams. Melo and Amare really need some help from the role players… if they shoot 10-30% from 3 we are gonna lose because they are usually open shots. As bad as amare and melo have been recently, they didn’t take many of those 17 wasted possessions that resulted in bricked 3s. There may need to be some roster cuts soon, cause we can’t survive much longer with Bibs, TD and jeffries jacking up 3s. We gotta creep closer to 35% out there as a team and we will be successful because it’ll create the necessary space for the offense. I’m sure there are a few guys out there in the D league that can hit open 3s, and we could start the transition by playing Novak with the starters to spread the floor. Just run a zone and his supposed awful D (which I thinkis vastly over-stated, he isn’t that bad, he is just an awful rebounded and kinda soft) can be somewhat mitigated by his length out on the perimeter of the zone.

Proud die-hard of the NFC West Champion San Francisco 49ers!
Whose got it better than us??? NOBODY!

by MetsKnicksRutgers on Jan 26, 2012 9:32 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I agree Walker does play ok defense

I was lumping him in with the others as far as time played off the bench. I’m saying that these guys are getting minutes, but they are not playing so great that dantoni can’t find time for Vak. Walker is avg about 18 mins off the bench and shooting about 30% from 3 pt range. It’s not like he’s a shut down defender where his or TD’s or Jeffries mins couldn’t be adjusted to make playing time for Vak.

You just got Tysoned!!!!!!

by Jason Bee on Jan 26, 2012 9:51 AM EST up reply actions  

I just dont like

putting him in those guys company, because he does bring decent D and very good boxing out and rebounding for the position he plays. He isn’t a total negative is all I am saying like Bib, TD and until recently, Fields has been. And I agree, Novak should def be playing much more, I rambled about it in my first reply to you

Proud die-hard of the NFC West Champion San Francisco 49ers!
Whose got it better than us??? NOBODY!

by MetsKnicksRutgers on Jan 26, 2012 9:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Now I suggested Novak get time a week ago.

But has anyone ever wondered why this guy has never caught in in anyone’s rotation? he’s played for JVG and got no run, Dunleavy gave him burn one year because damn near everyone was hurt. Then the next season he was garbage time only. Carlisle cut him and Pops gave him zero love in San Antonio. So obviously there is something about the guy that causes him to get no floor time. So it is not just that D’Antoni is an idiot since guys you would probably feel are all better coaches than MDA didn’t play him either. Maybe he is a terrible practice player, I don’t know, but usually bench guys get burn by doing well in practice. Shawne got into the rotation by consistently outworking and out performing Walker in practice last year. He raosted Walker in scrimmages, and that was the reason that D’antoni said “hmmm let’s see what he does in a game.” He got into a real game and played well and was in the rotation the rest of the year. But it was practice that got Shawne on the court.

by Robert Curre on Jan 26, 2012 10:33 AM EST up reply actions  

Ack beat me to it!

If we had a preseason to work this out, I’d send you a VERY strongly worded email about this.

by superturboultra on Jan 26, 2012 10:40 AM EST up reply actions  

punching = results

i agree vehemently.

sreh ladien e' ta janjia

by Lord Smackington on Jan 26, 2012 11:42 AM EST via Android app up reply actions  

Herb Williams needs to get in there and start messing shit up!

KNICKS NOW
http://nyknicksnow.blogspot.com/ - check it out!

by WSD on Jan 26, 2012 1:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I love Herb and everything . . .

But seriously, do you think he has ever taught a Knick big guy anything new or improved their game?? I think he has something on Dolan which is why he has been hanging around this long.

by TheKnicksAreBack on Jan 26, 2012 8:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I think he's just a cool guy....

kinda like Renaldo Balkman….. good to have him around even if he’s not doing much.

by robk on Jan 26, 2012 10:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Naw Walker would kill him

But since the suggestion is him over TD then maybe he should take a swing at Douglas. He is 6’10 he might win that one.

by Robert Curre on Jan 26, 2012 10:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Hmm, but Shawne had the benefit of a preseason to get time to get in a fight with Bully.

by superturboultra on Jan 26, 2012 10:39 AM EST up reply actions  

without even looking at his minutes

with those other teams tho…they probably really didnt need him.Kind of like a Balkman to us. Our situation is very diff than San Antonio’s Robert. ….we NEED scoring, bench scoring in particular. He needs to get a little PT…

You just got Tysoned!!!!!!

by Jason Bee on Jan 26, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

2-10! I rest my case!

Not so funny when the coach actually plays the scrub of the month!

by Robert Curre on Jan 30, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I mean I guess,

but we have effectively 0 shooters on this team. I’m not talking about potential or career numbers, I mean right now nobody on this team is a shooter.
You could give me any possible reason, tell me he has tuberculosis, it’s not good enough. He should play. I know you agree and are just speculating, I’m just adding.

by mp987987 on Jan 26, 2012 5:41 PM EST up reply actions  

The Knicks

are making me dislike the sport of basketball.

20 years from now when people may be asking me why I am a brooklyn fan, I may answer in a 4 letter word that rhymes with jello.

I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."

by gbaked on Jan 26, 2012 9:29 AM EST reply actions  

Unless he ends up playing for Brooklyn

For me, I might answer with a ‘four letter word’ that actually has five letters: Dolan.
The Knicks organization doesn’t accurately represent what New York is to me. The competition franchise (all the way) downtown might have little trouble getting a fan base. Then again, the Knicks could make us all dislike basketball so much that there’s no market for it at all. You think that’s the plan?

by mp987987 on Jan 26, 2012 9:36 AM EST up reply actions  

I think we're over-reacting

The Knicks will be fine. The first 20 games of an NBA season are completely meaningless, especially in a lockout season. They do need to get rid of D’antoni though if they want to do anything significant down the road.

by BallerAttack on Jan 26, 2012 10:26 AM EST reply actions  

A similar situation:

In 1998-9, another season without much of a camp or preseason, the Knicks made similar adjustments to the roster. Starks was out, Spree was in. The supporting cast was mostly no-names or bench players. And a key player, Camby, didn’t see any court action until well into the season.

Van Gundy, a coach known for being only able to play one way, was rumored to be fired at the end of the season, because he “just couldn’t adjust” despite signs all season long that the team just needed time.

Just sayin’

by superturboultra on Jan 26, 2012 10:35 AM EST up reply actions  

the supporting cast

Was Kurt Thomas, child’s, Dudley, Dennis Scott at the beginning. Those were the main guys off the bench at the start until camy got some time. Def not no names, all 3 were pretty big FAs and Scott kinnda was

Proud die-hard of the NFC West Champion San Francisco 49ers!
Whose got it better than us??? NOBODY!

by MetsKnicksRutgers on Jan 26, 2012 4:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Holy crap

Byron just fucking bitchslapped the Knicks! Goddamn! Ouch.

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Jan 26, 2012 10:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Hate to agree, but it seems right on target.

"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire

by Chris Child's Fist on Jan 26, 2012 11:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Ooof
To win close games you need to be faithful to your core offensive and defensive principles and in the film we saw a team that does not respect its principles and appears to want to talent their way through games." So we knew if we could avoid falling behind by a big margin we could catch them and pass them or if we got up late in the game by even a medium amount that team would fold.

Same old Knicks. Starting to wonder if Isiah got a worse rap than he really deserved. Stockpiling overrated, overpaid veterans who just want to score and don’t play to win seems be the M.O. of this franchise.

by flossy on Jan 26, 2012 11:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Except these guys aren't scoring and that is why they suck

Really even without a point guard you hold a team to 91 pts and with the talent that is on the Knicks you should win the game. A sad joke is all these years we have been bitching about defense, well the Knicks have the 8th best defense in the league this morning and they still can’t win games.

To be honest on the above comment, Chones pointed out a single player and said “Something appears to be wrong with that guys head. They need him and he helps them but he hurts them as much as he helps them.” I won’t say who but you do the math. Oh yeah Chones also said Baron would get alot of the stuff that is wrong with this the Knicks right. “I saw him play 15 games for us last season on one leg, and he turned this thing around. We won 8 out of our last 15 games and beat some teams we had no business beating. Baron can make a huge difference on that team, if the other guys decide to go with him and play some ball.”

by Robert Curre on Jan 26, 2012 11:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Honestly
"Something appears to be wrong with that guys head. They need him and he helps them but he hurts them as much as he helps them."

I didn’t watch last night, but I wish it was obvious who he was talking about. Unfortunately that statement could apply equally to either of the two guys who collectively take up 2/3 of our salary cap, so…

by flossy on Jan 26, 2012 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

I do agree that Baron could spark a turnaround and have been saying so all season

I’m a bit skeptical, because he is past his prime, coming off an injury, is as bad a shooter as Felton for his career and has (albeit always on less talented teams) been a shoot-first player with poor shot selection. That being said, on a bad day he is twice the passer and floor general as any of our other PGs, and sadly he’s a better shooter too even if his efficiency is terrible as usual.

That being said, the fact that we’re relying on Baron to save the season means this core is failing, and bad.

by flossy on Jan 26, 2012 11:52 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree

I do not care how much talent you have on your roster and their is talent here, you need to play team basketball. These guys will play together move the ball rotate on defense for like a quarter, see some success and they say enough of that shit. Then go back to play me first on offense and inattentive defense for long stretches. Makes me wonder what the fuck is really up with the players. Are they intentionally trying to get Mike fired. They play just well enough and hard enough not to be thoroughly embarrassed, but refuse to play team ball long enough to actually win games. That is why I said Mike should walk away. This team shows little interest at all in een trying to play basketball the right way.

by Robert Curre on Jan 26, 2012 11:57 AM EST up reply actions  

"8th best defense"

This is just being judged on points allowed, right? I wonder how the Knicks’ defense stacks up when you look at how often we allow opponents to shoot better than they do on average. Recently, it feels like we’re just unable to get easy shots to fall while our poor-shooting opponents are shooting the lights out on us.

by sisterray24 on Jan 26, 2012 11:57 AM EST up reply actions  

defensive efficiency rating.

The Knicks are one of 8 teams in the league that hold teams under 100 points per 100 possessions. That is a good stat because the Knicks now play the 2nd fastest pace in the league next to the Heat. Also the KnicksAnd be careful about poor shooting opponents compared to the Knicks there are not that many. The Knicks are 24th in Field goal percentage (raw) and 27th in EFG. So actually there are few teams that are as bad shooting the basketball as the Knicks.

by Robert Curre on Jan 26, 2012 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Cool. That explains a lot.

Basically, we start hitting shots and we start winning games.

by sisterray24 on Jan 26, 2012 12:13 PM EST up reply actions  

with the names on this roster, they should at least be 8-8.

I know lack of point guard is an issue but we still have talent or we thought we did. I think now everyone can see what our superstars really are and one thing they are not, is winners. Amare had his best chance to win a ring in Phoenix with Steve but that’s over. It’s just about money, and location at this point. The other guy is just a clown and may end up like Marbury unless Dolan rescues him and prevents it. These guys are not leaders nor do they know how to win. They don’t have high basketball IQ and it’s obvious.

by RASHADI on Jan 27, 2012 2:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

Looking over the stats, the only two starters who are averaging what you’d want of them are Tyson (double-double, efficient scoring) and Landry (some assists, some boards, and 47%FG — 59% from within the arc).

Shump, for all the energy and promise and stealing prowess, is still a work in progress.

It’s Amare and Melo who are losing these games for us. They are there to score and they can’t hit a shot (43% and 39% from the field, respectively). If they started hitting 50% of their shots, we’d be averaging over 100ppg, despite the lack of a backcourt and bench.

It’d be nice to see TD return to form, Shump be all he can be, etc. etc. But the blame starts at the top: our superstar power and our coach.

by sisterray24 on Jan 27, 2012 11:08 AM EST up reply actions  

so what ur really saying is...

we should trade dantoni for byron scott!

sreh ladien e' ta janjia

by Lord Smackington on Jan 26, 2012 11:47 AM EST via Android app up reply actions  

Actually Scott has a no trade Clause and wouldn't take the deal.

D’Antoni on the other hand would probably offer to clip Dan Gilbert’s toe nails for a chance to coach Kyrie Irving and some players that might actually listen to him. D’Antoni looked like he wanted to fucking cry after last nights game. Hell during the game, after another forced 3 pt shot, you could actually see him scream Why Billy, Why!

by Robert Curre on Jan 26, 2012 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Dead on, but not a news flash in the slightest

A person or persons with an immature outlook on things always seem to shape up at least a little when ‘oh shit, someone noticed.’
Well, the ‘someones’ are piling up around the league and throughout the media. And luckily for us, they’re getting vocal

by mp987987 on Jan 26, 2012 5:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Byron just nailed it ....

Since our veterans are apparently worthless in Scott’s opinion, then we really are royally screwed!

by TheKnicksAreBack on Jan 26, 2012 8:08 PM EST up reply actions  

On a lighter not Landry Fields is appears to be over his "slump"

Over his last 5 games Landry has averaged 15.2 pts per game on 29-52 shooting (.557) as a result his shooting percentage has creeped back up to 47%

by Robert Curre on Jan 26, 2012 11:30 AM EST reply actions  

He's doing a nice job passing the ball too!

He’s basically been the lone bright spot to me over the past 4 or 5 games

KNICKS NOW
http://nyknicksnow.blogspot.com/ - check it out!

by WSD on Jan 26, 2012 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

When the ball moves he's in his element....

and it’s started moving…..just a little….but moving.

by robk on Jan 26, 2012 2:32 PM EST up reply actions  

"Wait Til April"

The Knicks are now not only well below .500, but also out of the top 8 in the Eastern Conference. If we’re supposed to wait until April before judging this team, then there might not be any basketball left for us to judge.

by sisterray24 on Jan 26, 2012 11:44 AM EST reply actions  

good

then maybe they can actually get lucky for once, make the lottery and have the #1 pick. Of course this is the first draft in a few years with more potentially great tall people instead of PGs, so we’d be fucked anyway. Tho Andre Drummond or Anthony Davis aren’t bad.

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Jan 26, 2012 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

we not making the playoffs this year. The enitre season hangs on the fate of Baron

but what exactly can he do when he come back? He is 32, injured and won’t be able to play 40 minutes. Let’s say he comes back early February, he will still not be able to play heavy minutes at first and he still can’t even after as he is no longer young. Unless we getting Baron from 5 years ago and can play him 48 minutes, nothing will happen. This season is done already as the ‘superstars" don’t even care. They both busy making money off the court and enjoying the bright lights. There is no reason this team should be 7 and 11 or I should say 7-13 after Saturday. If we had won some of those games that we were supposed to, then there would still be hope but it’s over now. The stars are not leaders and don’t even care. They have showed their real sides now and especially number 7. I wouldn’t blame Amare too much but then I remember that he wanted the trade so he is guilty as well.

by RASHADI on Jan 27, 2012 2:44 AM EST up reply actions  

"...Hello old friend"

When I read that part of this post’s title, I heard the first line of the Sound of Silence by Simon & Garfunkel, Hello darkness my old friend … , in my head. I got sadder than I already was. Need to go for a walk.

Seth, if this team had an ounce of the passion, guts, and creativity you have w/ p&t, we’d be way better off.

...driving and mesmerizing

by mwu56 on Jan 26, 2012 12:26 PM EST reply actions  

In these type of games especially

we need to play more physical. Other teams are too confident against us considering we have superstars or whatever. When we aren’t winning at least show you care and get your teammates fired up by starting a little fight or something.

by ubd on Jan 26, 2012 12:41 PM EST reply actions  

i have not seen any care from the two “superstars” and no leadership as they both busy making money off the court and enjoying NYC.

by RASHADI on Jan 27, 2012 2:45 AM EST up reply actions  

I feel like our stars have accepted defeat until Baron gets back.

Partially because Melo has ZERO confidence in TD… partially because Stat can’t be STAT without a skilled PG…. and partially because Tyson can’t be the entire team (as much as he wants to).

A lot of times, I feel like they need to see P&T to get a good wake up call. A little fire under their asses. A good smack in the face. A big fat hurry the fuck up. A giant stop being a douchebag.

You know

posi..tive ....thoughts..?
@krishhhayyy

by gymtanlandry on Jan 26, 2012 9:47 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

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