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Heat 99, Knicks 89: "At least the threes are falling."

Indeed they were! As commenter KnightandDaye (a Pistons fan?) said in the game thread, a Knicks team without Carmelo Anthony or a point guard ran just about the most reckless, headless, gimmicky offense imaginable...but at least the threes were falling. New York couldn't get anything going inside-- Amar'e Stoudemire got triple-teamed every time he put the ball on the floor and Tyson Chandler could have hopping on a trampoline and the guards still wouldn't have been able to find him-- so they went outside. Bill Walker came alive from behind the arc and Toney Douglas became...undead, and the Knicks as a team hit 18 of 43 threes while hitting 12 of 41 two-pointers. Read those numbers again. That's RIDICULOUS.

Anyway, I've gotta be honest: Knowing full well that the Knicks didn't have much of a shot of winning, I kind of loved this game. Some of those threes, including the makes, were preposterous (Walker's turnaround elbow three falling to his left comes to mind), but a lot of them came off crisp ball movement and good, open looks, particularly in the first half. The best part by far was Walker's personal run in the third quarter: nine points in a little over a minute, including the aforementioned turnaround fall-away and a banker from the top of the arc. They just kept pulling and pulling and I kept on cackling like a madman the whole night long.

And really, it was the only option. Amar'e Stoudemire, per usual, wasn't getting easy touches rolling to the rim, and struggled to score off the dribble because of that aggressive help defense. To his credit, he managed a few nice elbow jumpers and tough inside makes in the second half, but this wasn't going to be his night. Miami was dead-set on making other Knicks do the scoring.

New York did a halfway decent job of defending, too. It was hard to tell with all the highlight alley-oops and transition tomahawks LeBron James and company put down, but New York stifled a number of Heat possessions with solid help defense and limited their second opportunities by crashing the glass. There were obviously plenty of breakdowns, but fewer than you'd expect given the circumstances.

I don't know. I'm not too bent out of shape about this one. The Knicks kept the game close and did so in the most delightfully batshit way possible. Steve Novak took six threes in nine minutes! I just can't get mad with numbers like that. Hell, it even gave us a bit of encouragement that some Knicks might actually be able to hit open looks sometimes once Melo's back and Baron Davis is there to distribute the ball a bit. This team has a terrible record and some grave issues, but I was laughing way too hard to worry about those tonight.

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I fully subscribe to every word in this recap

Wasn’t expecting much, was mostly entertained, ready for Houston tomorrow

by Joamiq on Jan 27, 2012 11:44 PM EST reply actions  

They sold out to keep us from beating them inside...

and it worked. This game could have followed the “Really fucking good basketball team steamrolls mediocre, identity-less basketball team by 27” script, but it didn’t. If not for a perfectly executed defensive gameplan, I actually think we might have won that.

For the record, I have a memo to Tyson Chandler, circa the first half: when you’re going for a put back, and there are 6 heat hands just as close to the basket as you are… don’t. Just use two hands, pull it down, and kick it to someone open. I counted 3 failed putbacks tonight that just had NO chance of going in.

by nocookiesforme on Jan 27, 2012 11:48 PM EST reply actions  

There were a number of missed putbacks, yes

Plus more missed dunks from Amare and Shumpert. We have missed a ton of dunks lately.

by Joamiq on Jan 27, 2012 11:59 PM EST up reply actions  

And layups. As sloppy as Gallo's layups were last year, he at least knew how to draw contact.

Not wishing for what ain’t here, but wish these guys could at least get some contact. That was my one gripe with Chandler (Wilson) when he was here. He always finessed his way to the rim and would try to avoid contact and if he missed it would end up a basket on the other end cuz we had zip offensive rebounding (back then). Nowadays we just miss badly or commit offensive fouls. Just wish they’d go strong and play smart

by screamedia on Jan 28, 2012 12:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Team's got no heart my dude.

I wanna say I can’t wait for next season but really I’m starting to doubt I’ll see a chip in my lifetime. This team blows. We can’t even play a close game without doing something embarrassingly ridiculous like taking more outside shots than inside shots. Seriously, think about that. When you suck from long range and take more outside shots than inside shots you’re sending a message: “We’re soft.”

In Donnie we trust.

by $100M Contract on Jan 28, 2012 12:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Dude...

Give Miami a little credit here. They play some of the toughest D in the league. We’re not soft we just don’t have anybody to move the ball down low and Miami was clogging the paint all night. I’m sorry but our team just hung tight with the best team in the league without their best player or a point guard and you’re saying they don’t have heart? Give me a fuckin break!

by robk on Jan 28, 2012 1:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Do you really think we're gonna drop those kind of three's on a nightly basis?

We got lucky. Plain and simple. Some of the shots we made were absolutely batshit incredible! We should have lost by 20+. Can you really sit there and give them credit for a losing effort. “Moral victories are for minor league coaches.”

In Donnie we trust.

by $100M Contract on Jan 28, 2012 1:25 AM EST up reply actions  

It's immaterial whether those shots fall on any other night...

They fell tonight. You play the game using the weapons you have at your disposal. Since we have no point guard and Melo’s out wtf else are we gonna do? I salute the effort tonight. You’re right, we should have lost by 20, maybe more, but we didn’t cause they played hard and they hit the shots they had to to make it competitive.

by robk on Jan 28, 2012 1:33 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't even wanna keep beating up the team.

But I’m not at the point where I see silver linings anymore. I don’t see what you see.

You see a team that just hung in there against a top 3 opponent because they shot the ball really well from behind the arc. I see a team that chose to settle for what were in some instances frustratingly difficult shots and somehow got them to fall to stay in the game. That’s not effort, that’s luck.

I see no positives in this loss, I just see a loss. I’m past the point of giving them credit for doing what they’re supposed to do. They just need to fucking win.

In Donnie we trust.

by $100M Contract on Jan 28, 2012 2:03 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

This was more like the three point contest . . .

Except without the white bonus ball !!

God how I hate Dantoni ball !! Stand around, launch threes and pray.

Knick basketball has always been about DEFENSE, pounding the ball into the post, and driving the paint. Dantoni single handedly ruined this proud tradition, and for that, I am quite pissed at the moustached man.

by TheKnicksAreBack on Jan 28, 2012 10:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Do you really think we're going to shoot as poorly as we have the rest of the season?

Because I’m telling you, that’s not going to happen. And we shot well against Miami, but it’s not as if we shot the lights out.

by Joamiq on Jan 28, 2012 5:25 PM EST up reply actions  

seems our heart shows itself...

when we’re without our star. it’s as if we are more driven to prove ourselves to melo, than we are to our own competitive natures. this is not good.

by bucketsncents on Jan 28, 2012 8:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Agree 100%

In all true reality, everyone was expecting Miami to blow the Knicks out and it didn’t happen. The Knicks played their best all around game without their best player, Melo. They held their own and yes the 3’s kept us in the game. We still have to be patient and see what happens when we face them again with a healthy Melo and hopefully B. Davis. I believe the outcome will be completely different. Also give Amare credit for not trying to force shot when being tripled teamed.

by D CLASSIC317 on Jan 28, 2012 4:36 PM EST up reply actions  

haha

I love that the shot selection has gone from bad to horribly infuriating, all the way around to hilarious

by chris-9999 on Jan 27, 2012 11:52 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

This!

Do the Shumpty Shump, come on and do the Shumpty Shump

by DangerZone on Jan 28, 2012 12:02 AM EST up reply actions  

TD Does What Melo Does

TD really stepped up and filled in the hole left by Melo there: he took 18 shots, went 33% from the field, and put the team on his shoulders in the closing minutes (and failed to carry us home). Quite impressive.

With TD playing Melo-ball and some typical performances from Amare, Chandler, and Fields, it’s a wonder that Walker’s explosive play wasn’t enough to put us over the top. I guess the Heat must be doing something right.

by sisterray24 on Jan 27, 2012 11:54 PM EST reply actions  

The fact we took more three pointers (43) . . .

Than two pointers (41) really does give new meaning to the old adage of “live by the three, and die by the three.” Good heavens!

by TheKnicksAreBack on Jan 27, 2012 11:55 PM EST reply actions  

It wasn't a maddening loss but the amount of turnovers are killing games

we’re just terrible passers inside the perimeter and Amar’e and Bully are downright scary putting the ball on the floor. Hindsight, this one did bother me cuz it sure felt winnable. TD was horrible in the 2nd half, 3 of 13 and a couple incredibly telegraphed passes. Novak sandwiched 2 3’s around absolutely nothing worth noting. Landry – yuck. It seems once the benchers come in bridging the 3rd and 4th quarters, everything good we do previously gets thrown out the window. These guys just can’t stay focused for a full game. Tony is the worst PG in the face of pressure D. We can’t seem to ever get good open looks in 4th quarters and since we can’t get the ball inside we get toasted.

Fun Fact (and yes it’s early in the season):
If we lose tomorrow and there’s a very good chance NJ beats a shorthanded Toronto Sunday at home, yup, we drop behind them. This should be appealing for a certain group of trollers…

by screamedia on Jan 27, 2012 11:58 PM EST reply actions  

I feel like I hatefucked this game

Before the game I was telling everyone that we better not take 20 threes tonight, that we should attack the rim and fight inside. If we shot 20 threes we’d be idiots. That one of the biggest problems facing our team is we shoot 20 threes a game and don’t hit them and our offense seems to get into a real rhythm when we attack the rim.

I also hate bill walker

Yet someone hitting 7 threes, 18 as a team is indeed hilarious. And it was fun to see us get so close in a game we had no business being close in.

Also, once again, evidence that melo is not the reason we’re losing and it’s silly to think he is. Because we got insanely lucky. If we hit threes at our usual clip tonight we would have lost by 50 points.

Do the Shumpty Shump, come on and do the Shumpty Shump

by DangerZone on Jan 28, 2012 12:01 AM EST reply actions  

God it’s painful to watch Toney Douglas. And Stat has just had a nightmarish campaign thus far. I like Stat, but it’s looking more and more like he’s the one who will be getting traded.

by Guess Who's Back? on Jan 28, 2012 12:13 AM EST reply actions  

STAT.....

needs a point guard. Knicks lack a point guard.

by Sanchise on Jan 28, 2012 12:35 AM EST up reply actions  

And they won't get one long term unless there is some serious development or something

So we’ve essentially paid 100 mil for a guy who NEEDS a pg, but we can’t get one. Amare is pretty useless right now and for the future unless something drastic happens at the PG position. And i’m not talking about Baron davis since here’s here short term, but for the future since we have no pg long term.

by lololol on Jan 28, 2012 3:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Obviously not a STAT fan

To call Amare useless is ridiculous. All NBA teams need a decent point guard just to control the offense and space the floor. Amare needs space to operate, he can’t drive to the basket if everyone is waiting in the paint for him. Even when we had Ray Felton, he kept the offense flowing which spaced out the floor for Amare to do his thing. To trade Amare would be stupid. If you paid attention to the game last night, you would have noticed that the pg’s for Miami kept the floor spaced so that D Wade and LeBron had room to do their thing.

by D CLASSIC317 on Jan 28, 2012 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

lol

it always comes back to a T RADE

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Jan 28, 2012 9:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Reductio Ad Absurdum

The most instructive moment in the game was when ESPN broadcast what D’Antoni was telling the team during a timeout in the first half. As it was becoming obvious that the Knicks were just going to chuck up 3s for the rest of the night, D’Antoni told them to keep up the good work! He had no interest in using the early luck from behind the arc to make room for some smart inside play, and eventually the Knicks started to regress towards the mean. 29% from within the arc is pretty cringe-worthy and explains why the Knicks were able to get so incredibly lucky and still lose by 10.

This was D’Antoni’s system reduced to absurdity. He should be ashamed.

by sisterray24 on Jan 28, 2012 12:18 AM EST reply actions  

Wow, I can't believe I missed this post. Spot on!

I noticed the D’Antoni talk too and I too was mystified by what he was telling the team. The whole damn team should be ashamed.

In Donnie we trust.

by $100M Contract on Jan 28, 2012 2:12 AM EST up reply actions  

I didn't Post or Toast for this game

And I missed it so.

posi..tive ....thoughts..?
@krishhhayyy

by gymtanlandry on Jan 28, 2012 12:46 AM EST reply actions  

Landry is soft.

And he’s been playing better than everyone on this team the last few games. We attempted more 3’s than 2’s, this offense is a joke.

Blow it up. Matter of fact blow up MSG with the Knicks, the coaching staff and our idiot owner in it so I have no choice but to be a Nets fan. Nets and Knicks have identical records, why are our tickets so expensive again?

In Donnie we trust.

by $100M Contract on Jan 28, 2012 12:51 AM EST reply actions  

Walker has to be the most frustrating player on the roster

He has a pretty nice (but streaky) offensive game, but he just makes some mistakes that make you realize why he would never step on the court for most teams. I feel like if he had a coach that really got on him about the turnovers and taught him better defensive technique, he could become a solid bench player.

by Dylan87 on Jan 28, 2012 12:52 AM EST reply actions  

More frustrating than TD?

I say TD is the most cringe-worthy player we have.

In Donnie we trust.

by $100M Contract on Jan 28, 2012 2:13 AM EST up reply actions  

TD is frustrating

But he has never shown any ability to play PG, so I’m more annoyed with the team for continuing to try and use him as one. He is an undersized SG. He should never be asked to run the offense.

by Dylan87 on Jan 28, 2012 2:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Stat needs to grow up

How many times do we hear an announcer say “A bit of a frustration foul there by Stoudemire”. I love the guy cause he came to NY when no one else wanted, but he throws his teammates under the bus with stupid “frustration” fouls like the one we saw in the fourth quarter. Not to mention all the technicals. If he wants to share the throne of superstar with Melo then he has to lead by example.

Dantoni’ll never bench him though to send a message, even though he should.

by jetrangermetfan on Jan 28, 2012 1:09 AM EST reply actions  

Please...

…this comment makes no sense. Bench Amar’e. Good idea there, jetrangermetfan.

by patstarks3 on Jan 28, 2012 2:23 AM EST up reply actions  

send a message to melo and amare that they cant keep hoggin the ball, never passing and never trying on defense and taking stupid fouls. bench the dude for one quarter and his whole mindset changes

by jetrangermetfan on Jan 28, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Great recap, Seth....

Right on point as per usual.

Nothing to add except that I hate the Miami Heat with a passion. I hate Lebron and his Amish beard, I hate D Wade and his free from the Dealer $300000 Maclaren birthday present, I hate Chris Bosh and his whiny third wheel status, I hate the Beach, I hate pretentious South Beach restaurants that have shitty food and think they are as good as New York Restaurants, I hate the half of Eddy Curry that’s playing for them, I hate Grandpa Juwan Howard, I hate Pat Riley and his hair grease, I hate Dolphins, I hate that shitty music that seems to permeate from every car and club, and most of all I hate that they’re good and they beat us tonight.

Now that I got that out I can chill….Thanks for letting me vent.

by robk on Jan 28, 2012 1:29 AM EST reply actions  

Lest we forget the hoes?

Damn Miami has some fine ass hoes.

In Donnie we trust.

by $100M Contract on Jan 28, 2012 2:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Listen...

…if tonight was lucky, then many of the other games (remember Andre Miller’s three preceded by Melo’s rim out?) have been unlucky. Tonight was a good thing. Take it as so. Flukey? Yes. But they needed a little something like that to stay in this tonight. And because they did, they played hard. It can’t hurt. We all knew they were going to lose this game. Especially when goddamn Dwyane Wade decided tonight was his night to come back.

But…

The Knicks’ season starts on Tuesday. Melo healthy (maybe), Davis playing (hopefully). They are probably going to be 7-13. I hope we steal tomorrow night in Houston. But what we’re realistically looking at is a team 6 games under which, despite all our hand-wringing, has started to make some strides: better ball movement, a defense that has its moments, the improved play of Fields ( a HUGE factor if this team ever gets it together), a little more confidence from guys like TD and BW. I know this sounds like wishful thinking. But this might be a year—considering the lockout training camp and D’antoni trying to figure out his 5th or 6th team (depending on how you count) in less than 4 years—when we’ve just got to suck up the first half and scare someone in the playoffs. With Bogut’s injury, it’s hard to imagine this team not being at least an 8th seed. And by then, they could be live, the same way they were in ‘99. Remember how much we hated that team during the regular season? (I’ll never forget them getting beat in Chicago early in the season by 15 or so. They barely scored 60 and Chicago was terrible that year.)

Might sound like pie in the sky, but I like the way Amare looks lately. I know the numbers aren’t good. But I think, with the addition of Davis, they are close. They played hard tonight. Fluke or no fluke.

Better times are a comin’.

by patstarks3 on Jan 28, 2012 2:06 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

hope you're right but I am not convinced with this team.

We have payed too much for players that aren’t so great together. Unless a miracle happens where the two stars figure out how to coexist, I am not sure if they even make the playoffs. I know it’s early but we have fallen out of the playoffs if it started today. This coming month is when no more excuses can be expected. The Celtics were slow and rusty at first but they got it together after a month and they’re doing it with injuries. We have to start winning and score more points. I agree with MDA when he says you can’t expect to win a lot when you score in the 80s. We gotta put up triple digit numbers to win. I am curious as to how much exactly Baron can do at this point in his career. Amare looks like he’s washed up right now and I hope we see the one from last year come back because we still owe him 80 million.

by RASHADI on Jan 28, 2012 2:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed!

People are acting as if we got lucky and hit like 70% from downtown. It was like 40%! That’s good, but not exactly unheard of. Most teams are going to shoot that well a bunch of times every season. It makes no sense to get all upset because a team shoots 40% from 3 but “still” loses.

Things. Will. Get. Better.

by Joamiq on Jan 28, 2012 5:35 PM EST up reply actions  

winning cures all that ails. a lot of times passes are forced which leads to easy transition buckets for the opponents, stifling morale. i’d be curious to see what our defensive efficiency is on “non turnover possessions”

it was a joke that we were even this close and a team with amare and chandler should be able to have some plays drawn up for them by a 1 legged prostitute distributing the ball. MDA is like the wildcat offense in football. cool gimmick that might work for a while but eventually will get figured out.

by raj m on Jan 28, 2012 2:38 AM EST reply actions  

TD is a tiny, selfish 2 guard that can’t shoot that we keep playing at point-makes sense?

Chandler plays OK, but our guards think shoot 1st and turnovers 2nd. Passing to a team mate
and driving the lane or taking a midrange jumper ARE NOT OPTIONS.

Amare is the worst passing power forward in the NBA. He can’t make his own shot and is a
turnover machine.

Any comparison of Amare to David Lee is NOW so ridiculous that it is insane. Have no clue what
we can trade Amare for, because of his poor play and un insured contract.

Mel is our one tradeable asset, maybe we can move him for Deron Williams. It won’t be long
before ALL fans realize that Gallinari is not only a more efficient shooter, defensive player, and
cheaper player than MELO

Can’t believe it, Lee & Gallinari were 2 cheap AND BETTER players than Amare & Melo and we
gave up on them.

This is all on Dolan and Walsh. Still can’t forgive Walsh for letting lee go and trading 3 number
ones for McGrady (played only 24 gms for NY).

by frankiec on Jan 28, 2012 2:57 AM EST reply actions  

you must be dumb as shit. we traded for mcgrady to get cap space. it was supposed to be lebron but wound up being amare. we didn’t trade picks just to get mcgrady. look at the bigger picture, step off the ledge, and go post on nets daily or something.

by raj m on Jan 28, 2012 4:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Read it Dolan

T. Mozgov C 16:58 1-3 0-0 2-2 +16 0 8 0 3 0 2 1 2 4
D. Gallinari F 36:23 7-18 2-10 5-7 +14 0 7 0 0 0 1 0 1 21

by RichardVincentGuerin on Jan 28, 2012 3:30 AM EST reply actions  

That's a bad day for Melo.

You guys have no memory and just focus on injured Melo.

by erniesto on Jan 28, 2012 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

They both shot under 40%…We already have that in Stat and melo…

by lololol on Jan 28, 2012 1:31 PM EST up reply actions  

In my opinion

Melo isn’t the big problem of the team. Off course that’s Dolan’s fault for trading everyone for melo. And yes he infuriates sometimes with his play style, but when healthy he’s a 45% shooter that can create his own shot and get to the line. It’s the team around him that utter trash. We have a bunch of “PGs” who can’t the play the position or shoot the ball well, Landry who disappears every other game, a PF who needs a pg or nothing…except we don’t have a pg, and defensive minded Center who’s great but really has no offensive abilities. Basically the team if full of guys with limited abilities and none of with i trust to do anything on offensive right now.

by lololol on Jan 28, 2012 4:04 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

I've quoted it before, I'll do it again

45% shooting is the usual league average, so what if melo shoots 45%? But 1.25 pts per shot, Melo’s rate, is below any good player I’ve ever bothered to look at. Most stars are at 1.4 pts per shot, Gallo is at 1.5 pts per shot.

by sgiustra on Jan 28, 2012 12:50 PM EST up reply actions  

45% is the bare minimum since his career average is .457

that’s better than Paul pierce and Kobe and only a few % off Dwill,Durant and Lebron’s career average. Most stars is at 1.4 is pure bull, Rose is at 1.2, Lebron is at 1.35, Kobe is at 1.29, durant at 1.36, Chris paul 1.34, JORDAN at 1.31 career, etc. Melo’s right now is 1.28 career…so i’m guessing none of those guys are stars..while Gallo must be a HoFer by your measuring stick.

by lololol on Jan 28, 2012 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I dont think Rose is that great. Shoots too much. Bulls win with or without him.

the other stats, by your accounting, prove my point. You are counting Jordans Washington years too, right?

Remember, even a slight edge in this stat is huge. When you put Durant at 1.36 contrasted with Melo’s 1.28 (career, right?), that is a huge difference.

I’ve checked lots of games stars and they seem to avg about .1 more pts per shot than Melo. Many of my checks were on last year, not necessarily their whole careers.

Gallo is just a good player. I’m not nuts. Lots of things go in evaluation equation. Gallo is just greatly efficient.

Kobe is a great all around player but Kobe shoots too much.

You intersperse career or season points per shot depending on what your point is.

Did you look into other players stats and decide not to post them? Just curious.

by sgiustra on Jan 28, 2012 1:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Come on, raw FG% is totally meaningless, unless you think a 2 is the same as a 3 and free throws don't count as points

Compare Melo’s TS% (true shooting percentage, which accounts for 3s and FTs) to other stars and you begin to see why he’s so overrated. League average TS% is .540, btw:

LeBron: .567 (career), .618 (this year)
Durant: .578 (career), .608 (this year)
Jordan: .569 (career)
CP3: .571 (career), .576 (this year)
Paul Piece: .569 (career), .553 (this year)
Gallo: .590 (career), .612 (this year)
Melo: .544 (career), .501 (this year)

So as you can see, not only is Melo the least efficient scorer of all those guys for his career (just league average), his numbers are totally in the toilet this season, well below league average which really hurts a team when he takes a career-high percentage of the team’s shorts. Of all the players you mentioned, only Kobe is comparable in scoring inefficiency, and Kobe is twice the all-around player Melo is, so he kind of gets away with it.

by flossy on Jan 28, 2012 1:53 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

absolutely. There are very savy folks on this site. Thank God!

Looked up 3 other scorers:
wade 1.375
Dirk 1.36
Pierce 1.36
Again, Melo is at 1.28

by sgiustra on Jan 28, 2012 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

None of them up to your mythical 1.4….

by lololol on Jan 28, 2012 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

distinction

without a real difference

BTW, Gallo surpasses my mythical 1.4

by sgiustra on Jan 28, 2012 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

simply looking at points per shot as shallow of a stat as looking at simply fg%

by lololol on Jan 28, 2012 2:07 PM EST up reply actions  

To be fair

Gallo doesn’t quite belong up in that group because he’s not a high-usage shooter. Everyone else on that list except Paul take at least 25% of their team’s shots, Gallo takes more like 20-21%. If he took more shots perhaps he’d be slightly less efficient (though knowing when not to shoot is a very underrated skill IMO).

Melo on the other hand is taking a jaw-dropping 33% of the Knicks shots despite not being able to throw it in the ocean this season, which… yeah.

by flossy on Jan 28, 2012 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

on p[oint Flossy

But, at nearly 18 ppg, you cant convince me that Gallo’s efficience would crater if he took another 6 shots. Dip? Yes. But he’d still be super efficient.

IMO gallo doesnt have the will to ever take more than 16 shots per game. But what he does at 10 – 12 spg is off the charts, no?

And his effectiveFG% and TSP are also amazingly high. Is he a star? No, not really but any team owner would salivate over those numbers. Well, any owner excepting Knicks.

by sgiustra on Jan 28, 2012 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Believe me, you're preaching to the choir, I know Gallo is a stud

But his prodigious efficiency at a usage of 21% is not comparable to Durant’s similar numbers at 31%. I mean, Tyson Chandler’s TS% is .767 which is just bananas, but he takes 4 shots per game, so you know… context.

by flossy on Jan 28, 2012 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Trying to be fair with gallo

LOve the guy but I havent lost my marbles. But, seeing him play this year, at times, when I look at the TV from a side angle, damn if Gallo doesnt sometimes look like a star.

by sgiustra on Jan 28, 2012 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Yea i know, but i think we’re both misinterpreting what we’re each trying to say. See what i posted below.

by lololol on Jan 28, 2012 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Flossy

I wass thinking of posting stats you just posted and thank you for doing that work. I really didnt have the energy or will

by sgiustra on Jan 28, 2012 1:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Yea i know, But i’m arguing his 1.4 weighted is what a star should be shooting thing, which is bs.

by lololol on Jan 28, 2012 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

The point is, looking at one stat to prove a point is dumb. I’m not saying Melo is somehow super efficient because he isn’t. But the criteria he used to judge it was flawed as well.

by lololol on Jan 28, 2012 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

yes but there are other criteria

And Melo doesnt look that great in those either.

Notice that no one has really gone into his weaknesses like defense because 1)hard to get good defensive stats and 2)if you have to be told that Melo is a poor defender, then there is no reason to discuss issue.

by sgiustra on Jan 28, 2012 2:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m not denying that. But he’s what we have and when he’s healthy he’s still better than any option we have now, unless we can magically get a pg for stat.

by lololol on Jan 28, 2012 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm OK with your position

but the idea that he’s sucking up a quarter of team shots and a large fraction of team salary is sickening, no?

I also do not for a second believe that his presence on the Ks will entice other stars to come. They may come for money or the great city but not because of Melo.

Knicks may improve, may even be a force, but that depends on who else they get and especially in need of a leader/point guard.

Trade Melo for a good PG, Knicks would be an instant force.

by sgiustra on Jan 28, 2012 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Can’t argue with that.

by lololol on Jan 28, 2012 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

yes

I was understating because I didnt want to get into tango I was in when reporting points per shot.

by sgiustra on Jan 28, 2012 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

It's just funny how your big point was that Melo isn't the problem,

it’s the limited one-dimensional players on this team. That IS Melo,

by mp987987 on Jan 28, 2012 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Sad thing is out of all our one dimensional players, he maybe the best since his offensive abilities is better than anyone we have, still somehow leads the team in assists and gets rebounds. It says more about how poorly the team is constructed more than anything.

by lololol on Jan 28, 2012 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

He leads the team in assists by default

4.4 assists and a 1.25 to 1 AST/TO ratio is horrendous for the team’s leading facilitator(?)

by flossy on Jan 28, 2012 2:20 PM EST up reply actions  

yes

Is it possible to be a bad passer and still accumulate assists? Have you ever seen melo play?

Lots of good passes dont lead to assists.

by sgiustra on Jan 28, 2012 2:22 PM EST up reply actions  

i actually think Melo is a okay passer, not great but above average..at least from what i’ve seem this year. Then again my view might be tainted by the fact that no one else on our team can really pass.

by lololol on Jan 28, 2012 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Melo has good skills, period

Even rebounds well.

Its those damn intangibles. Thats where things go awry.

I watch Nug games and man, a comparable player like Gallo, always seems to be tipping balls, getting charges, a block here, a block there, passing the ball around, neglecting to take shots that pad avg, breaking out to catch break away assists, running, moving.

Melo always seems to be still, holding ball. Yes, he’ll get numbers but at what cost?

by sgiustra on Jan 28, 2012 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

No doubt. All world talent, but the worst ball mentality i’ve seen in a while. Unless he gets traded, i hope that is time of shitty play can open up his eyes.

by lololol on Jan 28, 2012 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

mp

what you post is damning but its even worst than you not because, even on Melo’s one dimension, Flossy’s point, my point, is that Melo aint that great.

by sgiustra on Jan 28, 2012 2:20 PM EST up reply actions  

sorry, typos

I mean its even worse than MP describes

by sgiustra on Jan 28, 2012 2:22 PM EST up reply actions  

totally.

He’s garbage. I’ll say it. He’s not a superstar, not even a star by basketball standards and it makes my blood curdle every time anybody calls him our “best player”. Never wanted him, don’t like him.

by mp987987 on Jan 28, 2012 5:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Also, for the record sgiustra

I almost always agree with everything you say, especially about melo and the players we traded for him. It’s like you’re reading my mind half the time

by mp987987 on Jan 28, 2012 5:17 PM EST up reply actions  

thnx

I was really down on Kniuck fans because they gave Melo the kind of reception that you might give Wilt, Magic, Air or Larry.

I thought Knick fans had lost their minds. But reading thru P&T, its clear that there are conflicting opinions.

Thanks God. there’s hope.

by sgiustra on Jan 28, 2012 11:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Just one last point

When Landry Fields came to Knicks, lots of commentators & coach were saying that he had a “big motor.” Thats to say that he is always active, relentless, involved in everything, always making things happen.

Thats one area that Melo is especially small. Melo seems to expend most of his energy in the deliberate setting up of his isolation shots. He seems to cruise half the game.

Frankly Melo often looks a bit dumpy to me. Check out the difference between Gallos built a couple of years ago and now. Gallo has gotten bigger, more defined.

Looka t Melo from rookie year and now. He’s a bit lumpy, no?

by sgiustra on Jan 28, 2012 11:58 PM EST up reply actions  

just don't have the ballhandling athletes to attack the rim...

we’d all like to think we do, but we don’t. not like other teams. landry is athletic, but not a great ball handler. just like amare and melo, and even their athleticism isn’t what it is in our minds… just watch the real athletes and you can see the difference.

a profoundly limited, average team with profoundly limited, below average chemistry.

more ballhandlers. more athletes. smarter players… and one less star is the recipe we should be following.

though i respect the grit last night.

by bucketsncents on Jan 28, 2012 8:16 AM EST reply actions  

So much for that . . .

Coach Mike D’Antoni, whose team lost to the Heat 99-89 last night, said it was unlikely Davis will make his Knicks debut tonight in Houston, though he has had no setbacks.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/baron_debut_delayed_again_fX7Cf2lvIPLlskJzA8jSIJ#ixzz1kllT6Xe7

by TheKnicksAreBack on Jan 28, 2012 11:02 AM EST reply actions  

Good Point

johnhollinger John Hollinger

“Yes, the Knicks tried 43 3s… but what about the nearly-as-amazing fact they shot 12-for-41 on 2s?”

That fact makes me weep :-(

by TheKnicksAreBack on Jan 28, 2012 11:26 AM EST reply actions  

Let me get this straight...

Miami decides to let us take all the 3s we want as long as they can shut us down inside. We take all the threes we want and can’t get points inside, thus losing. And we’re somehow proud of this? We played exactly how Miami wanted us to play and somehow this is a good sign? What a disgrace.

by east_harlem on Jan 28, 2012 12:41 PM EST reply actions  

Exactly, that WAS NOT a basketball game last night . . .

That was an abomination and a disgrace to the game of basketball. There was only one basketball team in the game last night, the Miami Heat.

The Heat played traditional and intelligent basketball. The Knicks on the other hand played some gimmicky crapola of “we are totally out-classed here, so let’s just chuck threes all night and hope for the best.” What a wonderful game plan right there!

The disgusting thing is that they actually made some of them which will only encourage this garbage further. Why do you think Pay Riley refers to the three pointer as “fool’s gold?” Because he knows that every dog has his day and get hot from behind the line. It makes you think that you are a better team then you really are, simply because the final score is close.

That crap last night WAS NOT the game of basketball, that was playing the lottery. I did not watch a basketball game last night, I watched the three point contest but someone forgot to bring the white bonus ball. It’s a shame because if they brought that ball, then we may have won.

Thank you oh Great Moustached Offensive Genius for destroying our Knicks not only for hopefully your short remaining time, but for instilling such horrible habits in these players that the next coach will probably never be able to erase. They are now programmed robotic chuckers. Fools gold !!!! and Dantoni is the biggest fool of all.

by TheKnicksAreBack on Jan 28, 2012 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

D'Antoni's grade on Knicks

Well, lets see. First 2 years, he was subjected to getting rid of players to get under the cap. In 3rd year, when team improved, he was upended with a trade that changed the basic team.

That led to amnestying their only point guard while getting a serviceable center.

Given all of the above how could anyone criticize Coach.

I have no idea how good he’s been. His players have to wear name plated just to identify them.

Coach’s Grade? Inc.

by sgiustra on Jan 28, 2012 12:54 PM EST reply actions  

I have read your opinion . . .

And respectfully disagree. He turned the Knicks into a bunch of pansy three point chuckers.

For that alone, he deserved a big F, written in red ink at the top of his pink slip!

by TheKnicksAreBack on Jan 28, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

so,...you dont like D'Antoni?

Your F is for last game or totality?

If last game, well the Ks stank from 2 but were competitive because they were good from 3.

If your grade was on D’Antoni tenure, again the organization’s goal didnt seem to be to win until last year and then they went and got limb transplants. So far, not working.

P.S. I dont have a clue whether coach is good because, in Phoenix, he had a great co-coach = Steve Nash. In, NY, what I said above

P.S.#2: If K fans are sick of coach, I get it. Worst part now are the post game press conferences.

by sgiustra on Jan 28, 2012 1:29 PM EST up reply actions  

100% agreed

He has not had a single stable season.

by Joamiq on Jan 28, 2012 5:40 PM EST up reply actions  

It's totality, I have a slight advantage over most Knick fans . . .

Because I live in Arizona and watched pretty much every Suns games from the Dantoni era, many in person.

Not many die hard Knick fans can claim that. Basically, I enjoy watching basketball and his Suns were the only thing on tv.

I have seen his in his “prime” and it was still glaringly obvious that his style of ball is cool to watch and entertaining to the general masses. however, it is based on Fools Gold and the word “Fool” is there for a reason.

It is not good basketball, it is not disciplined basketball, and it certainly isn’t championship basketball. Like last night’s game, it can make things exciting and may even win you a few when lady luck shines.

It’s a gimmick, the WWE of the NBA, and I knew we were doomed the moment he was hired. Now our players are so undisciplined and out of control that I am not sure if Jeff VanGundy, Phil Jackson, Pat Riley and Vince Lombardi together could undo this damage.

That is why Mikey D. earns a big, fat F for his entire, gimmicky, garbage, crapola philosophy.

And team discipline? Don’t even get me started on that!

by TheKnicksAreBack on Jan 28, 2012 1:44 PM EST reply actions  

Hey, what's your opinion of Mike D'Antoni?

It’s kind of hard to tell. Maybe if you posted the same rant several times on every thread, we’d be able to get a sense of what you think of the coach.

by flossy on Jan 28, 2012 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Since I do live in Arizona now . . .

I have no other Knicks fans to discuss, bitch, moan, and complain to out here. Please forgive me if I go overboard on the message boards, but they are the only place I can talk to fellow sufferers.

by TheKnicksAreBack on Jan 28, 2012 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Just a point of view from a Knick fan that watched every Suns game that season . . .

That team was successful because it contained players who had self-discipline, like Nash for example. They were able to discipline themselves to make up for the lack of team discipline on Dantoni’s part.

What we see now with the Knicks, is what Dantoni ball looks like in the hands of players lacking in self-discipline. You get this circus of a Knicks team.

Maybe the players will look deep inside themselves and fix this like the Suns leaders, but I am not optomistic given our cast of characters.

by TheKnicksAreBack on Jan 28, 2012 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Hot air huh?

I hope you are right, I really do. Eventually, one way or the other, both of our opinions will be attempted and we’ll just have to wait and see sadly.

by TheKnicksAreBack on Jan 28, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

BBB, we've had many Melo disagreements, I recall

But here, God! You cut right to the chase. Good job. I’d call those suns a winning team.

Not winning a title does not make you a loser or else every teacher who doesnt get voted teacher of the year is a loser

by sgiustra on Jan 28, 2012 2:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Watching this in a bar in Miami surrounded by Heat funs was awesome for the first three quarter... and then reality set in.

But seriously, their faces with all those threes going in was priceless. My friend kept saying, “just shoot it man, it’s probably goin in” (Heat fan being sarcastic) and half the time we did shoot it and they made it and his face was priceless.

by hvino on Jan 28, 2012 2:26 PM EST reply actions  

tough game

now that the schedule is actually getting tougher I’m really getting bummed, like to the point that I won’t go out of my way to watch every minute. Just hope they turn things around, because it would suck if the the hole they are in right now got even bigger. Like, bigger than Joel Anthony’s forehead.

oh, and this is the season so far in a nutshell:

Tyson Chandler could have hopping on a trampoline and the guards still wouldn’t have been able to find him

by total hermination on Jan 28, 2012 4:54 PM EST reply actions  

I take back what I said about trading.

Don’t. I see that there were two reason as to why stat was effective last season.
1. Good Pg play/mentoring. Felton was a good passing pg. He was not steve nash but still was effective. Billups was no where as good as a passer as felton or nash but still better than what we have now. Hell tony douglas last year was a better passer than he is now because billups/felton teaching him to run the point.
2. No spacing. This is especially the case when he gets the ball from the high post. Amare looks to either drive or shoot it. When Amare drives, Tyson’s man leaves him to close in on Amare with a defender from anyone not named melo’s man sliding over just a little bit just in case tyson gets the ball. Melo’s man begin to slide (just a little bit) over to help the helper of the helper. When he shoots, it is similar situation expect Tyson’s man doesn’t leave him and one of the other man from the perimeter moves ever to get the steal/prevent the drive/draw the foul. It is like they play a mini-zone when amare gets the ball.
My analysis may be far off after all I am not paid and I watch online blurry streams.

by eomede07 on Jan 28, 2012 5:39 PM EST reply actions  

So tired of all the Melo hate...

Getting really old. Even when the guy doesn’t play all you guys can do is try and support your bullshit hypotheses.

by robk on Jan 28, 2012 5:50 PM EST reply actions  

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