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The Sixers inquired about Amar'e Stoudemire? Oh word?

I've been out for most of the day and missed this little bit of rumor wafting over from Philadelphia. Our own njsnip was kind enough to put up a Fanpost on the subject, but I figured I'd get something up on the front page as well. According to a gentleman named John Finger(!), the Sixers have "inquired" about the availability of Amar'e Stoudemire. Quoth Finger:

According to a league source, the Sixers have inquired about Stoudemire, though it was categorized as "due diligence." Nothing is said to be imminent or even in the early stages other than just talk, the source said. Nevertheless, in past seasons the Sixers were reportedly discussing trade scenarios with the Phoenix Suns in order to acquire Stoudemire. Whether or not the Sixers can afford Stoudemire, of course, is an issue too. Stoudemire is the ninth-highest paid player in the NBA...

"Due diligence" isn't too much to get worked up about (What does that even mean? Are the Sixers like "hey, that Amar'e Stoudemire guy...y'all still got him? That's cool. Just checking."). This is just an interesting little rumor that, for once, doesn't appear to have originated in New York. Given his contract and his recent struggles, it's a bit unexpected that teams would be even remotely interested in Stoudemire and, indeed, the folks at Liberty Ballers aren't too thrilled with the prospect.

Anyway, there isn't much here, but it's always fun to get a sense for who's contacting whom over which players. It's like watching teams poke each other on Facebook.

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Comments

Display:

I'd give Doug Collins a blowjob for a Jrue/Thaddeus - Stat trade

There’s no way the 6ers do anything like this though. I’d put it at about .3% chance.

Stainer of mountaintops.

by Chairman Meow on Jan 29, 2012 7:23 PM EST reply actions  

Graphic…

by ap3604 on Jan 29, 2012 8:10 PM EST up reply actions  

personally, i think that lineup...

jrue, shump, melo, thad and tyson would be one bad, high octane team…

by bucketsncents on Jan 29, 2012 10:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe fun to watch at times but not very strong up front - too small

At least Thad doesn’t turn the ball over much. Good size at the guards, but…IDK

by screamedia on Jan 29, 2012 11:55 PM EST up reply actions  

You never know with these things

We were all like, “We’ve got the best frontcourt in the NBA now!” when we signed Tyson, and well….

KNICKS NOW
http://nyknicksnow.blogspot.com/ - check it out!

by WSD on Jan 30, 2012 12:50 PM EST up reply actions  

that would be a nice lineup

but i imagine they’d have kinks and chemistry issues to iron out just as much as this team does as constructed, which is why regardless i’d like to play the season out and if that’s not possible, at least give this team until the deadline.

sreh ladien e' ta janjia

by Lord Smackington on Jan 30, 2012 1:09 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

...

it’s just that when thongs are working, ball movement, defense, shots a falling, we look pretty unstoppable. Thing is, we’re just inconsistent with those things & that is apparent throughout these games and the manner we lose.

sreh ladien e' ta janjia

by Lord Smackington on Jan 30, 2012 1:14 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

No reason to panic now. The worst case scenario is that Baron doesn’t work out and we try with someone new and a whole preseason next year. I like the Knicks’ frontcourt.

by superturboultra on Jan 30, 2012 9:47 PM EST up reply actions  

our issues are 94.76%

related to the point guard position

by DonMoosavi on Jan 29, 2012 7:49 PM EST up reply actions  

nobody can shoot either

thats a big problem

"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy

by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jan 30, 2012 12:25 PM EST up reply actions  

The heck?

Yo Seth, don’t you realize this Philadelphia source of yours is trying to steal my namesake!

I’ve got a copyright ya know.

Why are mosquitoes hatching in our offense?

by StarksMiddleFinger on Jan 29, 2012 9:14 PM EST reply actions  

It's a shame

Fans are so fickle. Amar’e came here, changed the culture, got submarined by a trade that marginalized both him and the coach, and now has struggled for all of 20 games, and it seems like everyone would love to ship him out of town.

I’m sticking with Amar’e. Even if he and the Knicks end up sucking over the long haul, at least I can live with myself.

PS: I’m watching Gallo defending Chris Paul (on a switch—we all know about those, right?) relatively well on NBA League Pass. Man I miss that dude. If they’d just held on to him in the Melo trade…ah. Will I ever stop driving myself crazy about that one (and how excited I was when some random, erroneous Twitter report came out suggesting the Nuggets suddenly wanted Fields instead of Gallo)?

by patstarks3 on Jan 29, 2012 10:23 PM EST reply actions   2 recs

im with you on the Amar'e bit

i’m ride or die with him. he was ballin out of control last year and then the trade kinda set him back. but once we can get Baron up and running somewhat, it’ll be like a dual tandem weapon of Biddy & STAT and Melo & Chandler. im not saying “unstoppable” but i would be kinda nervous if i was the opposing team

by blackhova on Jan 30, 2012 9:57 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

PPS

Not on a switch. Karl is CHOOSING to have him on Chris Paul. Granted, he just got burned. But still…

by patstarks3 on Jan 29, 2012 10:24 PM EST reply actions  

we all know when dolanmade the trade stat and melo are the same type players.

and we also know there is no way in hell anyone trades for stat.the knicks are the only team that would sign a player to an uninsured max deal.the only one thats tradeable is melo but they still will not get equal value for him.knicks give up too much and get back way less.say it together………..thany you jimmy d

hustle and hustle with muscle

by bins12 on Jan 29, 2012 10:33 PM EST reply actions  

i will thank jimmy d

for making delicious breakfast sausage to go with my eggs

by blackhova on Jan 30, 2012 9:59 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

aside from the fact there are a number of differences btwn stat n melo

the suns pretty much offered amare the same thing minus the insurance and the final guaranteed and if we didn’t jump someone else would have, maybe even the sixers themselves.

sreh ladien e' ta janjia

by Lord Smackington on Jan 30, 2012 1:53 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

i believe too many posters are grossly UNDERESTIMATING...

the addition by subtraction thing. i myself also dislike melo far more than stat and would prefer to move our SF… but… if we (and i hope we do) get to the point when we realize that this marriage just isn’t going to pan out, than we’d be foolish to turn down a trade that gives us 75 cents on the dollar… because 75 cents with tyson and whichever of stat and melo remains, provided they’re more complimentary (which is a given being that stat and melo are completely UNcomplimentary), makes us very dangerous.

would love any combination of iggy (perfect compliment to melo and can run the point), thad, evan, lou or jrue… though i doubt the sixers are willing to give up jrue, their only PG, unless they really wanted to unload brand and paired them up.

by bucketsncents on Jan 29, 2012 10:35 PM EST reply actions  

You do realize that trading Amare t a team in your division

a team that you will have to play 4 times a year and possibly in the playoffs is a tad dumb. The last thing you need to to give a player with Amare’s talent an incentive to come out and kick your ass every time he faces you. We call Elton Brand a Knick killer because he will get 21 points. Well what the hell will you folks be calling Amare when he is dropping 41 every time he faces the Knicks? If you are going to trade Amare you trade him out of the Western conference. Did not the Denver game teach people a lesson? Gallinari and Mozgov combined for 53 pts in that game far over their average per game agaonst other opponents. You don’t think that both players had a little extra motivation to be playing the Knicks in Madison square Garden?

by Robert Curre on Jan 30, 2012 9:55 AM EST up reply actions  

What's dumb is not seizing an opportunity to get better...

when there will be minimal opportunities. Ideally, IF a trade is to be pursued, it would be to an out of division team, but if there’s a trade that would make us better than our opponents and over a longer period of time, you must do it. To avoid doing a trade just because of those 4 games would be foolish. And if our FO is worried about Stat’s longevity, and a team is actually willing to take his ginormous uninsured contract, and if we’re absolutely convinced Melo and Stat can’t co-exist succesfully (which I am), than we take a good deal when it presents itself.

And I’m not saying there’s a trade with the sixers that would promise to make us better than them (though there are some combinations that I do think are worthy of strong consideration), but the argument that you don’t do it because they’re in our division is short-sighted… not to mention that we’ll have guys who will want to exact revenge on them, just as Stat would on us.

by bucketsncents on Jan 30, 2012 10:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Keep that in mind when you are complaining about STAT beasting against us

and as for motivation I doubt the Sixer bros will be as motivated. Think about it, the Knicks were a pathetic backwater lost in a decade long dark age before he showed up. Do you think Carmelo Anthony would want to be a Knick if David Lee was here instead of Stat, hell no, Tyson Chandler would be a Warrior now. Patience and loyalty is what successful organizations demonstrate. Maybe the Knicks should pretend that they are one. Because next year this time you guys will be bitching about another trade while the Sixers are battling the Heat in the ECF!

by Robert Curre on Jan 30, 2012 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

he showed up b/c we offered him the most money. not some mad sense of loyalty

by raj m on Jan 30, 2012 7:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Again, I'll give him those games... if we dump him, he deserves to go nuts on us...

but if we end up being a better team, it’s worth it. And regarding loyalty and patience, that’s reserved for organizations that make smart personnel moves, which we don’t. I remember back in the day when we had a strong team, like in the 90’s, NEVER waiting for trades. We only look to trades when the team sucks, the losing is incessant and the chemistry wreaks.

by bucketsncents on Jan 31, 2012 7:20 AM EST up reply actions  

And the Corpse of Elton Brand will get that done?

You do realize that Philly inquired not us, therefore their idea is that getting Stat will make their team better. Now since they are already pretty good, I doubt they are planning to fuck themselves. Obviously Stat is better than Brand even now, and their Salaries match so other than throwing us a draft pick or two maybe, there will be no Young or Hawes or Iggy’s thrown into that deal. So if you think that swapping out Stat for an Elton Brand who is in free fall he is declining so fast and a couple future back of the first rounders makes this team better, than you probably should apply for Grunwald’s job, because that is just the kind of thinking Dolan likes.

by Robert Curre on Jan 31, 2012 9:32 AM EST up reply actions  

never said an even up trade would be enough, even with just draft picks...

obviously, if we’re not getting other established, or young players with a year or 2 experience, that would be stupid… but philly, or any team knows to get a commodity, you have to give some commodities and the key is in giving up a worse fit for your team for a better fit from another team. if iggy is in turners way, than he becomes available… if lou and jrue are too similar (ala melo/stat) than one of them becomes available… it’s called negotiations.

my only point, again, is you don’t turn down a good deal if it’s there for your team just to avoid playing the guy you just traded a few times a year.

by bucketsncents on Jan 31, 2012 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm usually don't get into talking about trades that can / will never happen.

But its pretty clear that its a lot harder to build a team around Melo than it is to build one around Amare. Not saying that Amare’s the superior player (although I still do think so), but its apparent that STAT needs a pass-first PG to succeed. What does Melo need to succeed? I got no clue. Thats why trading Melo for Iggy and Jrue Holliday would probably be the most amazing trade in the history of the Knicks. I know that the Sixers probably wouldn’t take that trade, but I think this Philly package would be less than what the Jazz got for Deron (and I could even argue that its not much more than what Denver got for Melo). This would really put our team over the top, but for now its just a pipe dream. Until we acquire a good PG, get well soon Baron!!

"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time."-Vince Lombardi
Staff Writer, GangGreenNation.com

by Jeff W. on Jan 29, 2012 11:19 PM EST reply actions  

What does Melo need to succeed?

Go ask Denver. He did alright pretty F-ing spectacular there.

by erniesto on Jan 30, 2012 12:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Ok.

What did Kevin Love/Garnet do on the Timberwolves? What did Lebron do on the Cavs? What did Pau do on the Grizzlies? What has Dwight done on the Magic? And your argument is?

by erniesto on Jan 30, 2012 9:00 AM EST up reply actions  

I think you're answering your own question. What has any ONE person done anywhere?

IMO you’re giving too much love for the stars and too much hate for the coach. The truth lies in between and has to do with a group of players surrounding our stars that are neither deep or talented enuff right now to lead this team. Stars as labeled should lead the team in theory but do not. Telling the media we should maybe do this or that is not leadership. It’s not owning up. They do not need a 2 man sitdown. They need a team wide sitdown including the coaches in that case that isn’t just some theory spoken when the cameras are on.

by screamedia on Jan 30, 2012 9:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Denver seems to be doing just fine without him.

Some may say that they’re better off. Are you a fan of advanced stats? They indicate that Melo was always the 3rd or 4th best player on the Nuggets team. In his last few years, it was Billups and Nene that contributed the most wins. Before that, guys like Camby, Iverson (as well as Nene), were most responsible. This is according to win shares. Anyway, I can tell that you’re a big Melo fan, and I’m not trying to come off as a Melo-hater. He’s a Knick, so he’s my guy and I’m going to stand behind him for as long as he wears the blue and orange. However, there are clear flaws in his game and completely ignoring them is not right either.

"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time."-Vince Lombardi
Staff Writer, GangGreenNation.com

by Jeff W. on Jan 30, 2012 1:40 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm not a fan of advanced stats

As they are too often easily warped to suit a purpose. Melo is world-class, a perennial all-star and all NBA player. Every team in the NBA would have gone after him in free agency. Everyone has flaws — but Melo is the best scorer since Kobe Bryant, is a better rebounder and has above average defensive abilities. There isn’t anyone better who isn’t named LBJ or Durant at his position — according to GMs, scouts, coaches and analysts.

by erniesto on Jan 30, 2012 9:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Forget advanced stats Denvers winning percentage since the shipped Melo to NY is

higher than at any time during the years he was there. They are winning more games more frequently and that is the only advanced stat that matters.

by Robert Curre on Jan 30, 2012 9:57 AM EST up reply actions  

of course youre not a fan

of advanced stats

"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy

by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jan 30, 2012 12:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Ha! Thank you

KNICKS NOW
http://nyknicksnow.blogspot.com/ - check it out!

by WSD on Jan 30, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions  

i think youre looking at amare needing a PG the wrong way

amare is only his dominent self with a PG melo can get his with anyone else on the court that shouldnt make melo easier to trade/harder to build around

by abe88 on Jan 30, 2012 12:21 AM EST up reply actions  

I wasn't tryna say that Melo is a bad player, because he's not.

And I think he definitely is a lot easier to trade, because he’d fetch a loftier return than Amare would (at least currently). The thing with Melo is that hes a great scorer, but he doesn’t make his teammates better, and he doesn’t need his teammates to make him better. We’ve all seen him take over a game (like the Boston playoff game), and we’ve also seen him display some pretty flashy PG skills. But usually, he plays a style of ball that shows that he doesn’t buy into the team concept. He’s a great SF, but what kind of players do you put around him? You can’t just go out with a SF, you need quality at every position. With Amare, its apparent that a lineup like Jrue Holliday/ Fields/ Iggy/ STAT / Tyson would play to his strengths. With Melo, trading Amare for a quality PG like Holliday wouldn’t even improve the team, because Melo doesn’t score off of cuts / curls/ rolls. He scores off isolation and he scores after holding the ball. I know this topic has been beaten to death, and I really didn’t mean to re-open the can of worms. Basically, its just kind of sad that we’re capped out with two players that don’t compliment each other. Would’ve been nice to have two players who feed off of each other, rather than two players who feed when the other is out of the game. Whatever, I’m still confident that a quality PG (Baron?) and more practice time will solve this team’s problems.

"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time."-Vince Lombardi
Staff Writer, GangGreenNation.com

by Jeff W. on Jan 30, 2012 1:33 AM EST up reply actions  

very good point...

not just about who’s “better”… it’s about building the best team, and stats “need” of a PG creates better team chemistry and play than a guy who’s better going it alone.

by bucketsncents on Jan 30, 2012 6:17 AM EST up reply actions  

i dont really get how it's "clear" bldg around one is easier than the other

otherwise ur saying that whole denver nugget team for the last several years ead pretty much just a rebuilding experiment?

sreh ladien e' ta janjia

by Lord Smackington on Jan 30, 2012 1:59 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

It's like Denver included in the trade some superstar haters just for the Knicks.

Melo will forever be greater than Danilo. Get over it.
Stat would easily be the best player in any trade with Philly. He cannot be replaced on the roster through any of the BS scenarios people are coming up with. My guess is that some think Harrelson is a starting PF in the NBA… probably the same people who were shouting to the moon about starting Walker over Fields and that Tyson was a bum.

Face it, the Knicks are the 49ers (pre Harbaugh) of the NBA — plenty of talent but saddled with an incompatible system.

by erniesto on Jan 30, 2012 12:28 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

stat and melo might both be the BEST players between the knicks and sixers BUT...

who has the better team? “best player” doesn’t mean as much as we’d like it to if there’s no balance, compliment or chemistry.

by bucketsncents on Jan 30, 2012 6:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Who knows

There’s a pretty wide consensus that D’antoni is a major part of the problem. Another is injuries and Amare just playing like a bum without a PG. Too many issues right now to decide on talent, but many of these are quick fixes.

by erniesto on Jan 30, 2012 9:07 AM EST up reply actions  

when something like that is a "consensus"

its just group think. No one really knows what’s wrong with the Knicks so the easiest and most simpleton answer is to fire the coach.

When the reality is the team was just thrown together and has barely had time to practice. And the “stars” on the team haven’t had much of an offseason due to injury, and one’s injured and the only PG on the team hasn’t played a minute yet.

See. See all a that. But its just “blame the coach, rabble rabble rabble”.

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Jan 30, 2012 9:11 AM EST up reply actions  

good.

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Jan 30, 2012 9:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Orlando shoots a shitload of threes also

but i dont hear any fire svg chants because they get the wins …so it aint judt about the system, it aint just about the stars, its about all of it and how well and how fast those things come together.

sreh ladien e' ta janjia

by Lord Smackington on Jan 30, 2012 2:07 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

Now I agree that 43 threes is excessive, and is pretty much an outlier

However the Knicks do average about 24 in normal games. Here is a list of the number of 3’s taken by some teams yesterday.

San Antonio = 25
Clippers = 30
Dallas = 20
Nets = 22
Atlanta = 23
Magic = 23
T-Wolves = 21

There were only 2 NBA games yesterday where neither team attempted at least 20 3pt shots. Celtics vs Cavs and the Heat vs. Bulls. Neither the heat or bulls have players that take alot of 3’s the Cavs 2 best 3pt shooters didn’t play and on Boston Allen and Pierce are really the only ones who take 3’s these days. Basically the NBA is a 3pt shooting league, most teams shoot a significant number of 3’s.

by Robert Curre on Jan 30, 2012 2:17 PM EST up reply actions  

every team... same situation.

why is it so much harder for our “stars?”

by bucketsncents on Jan 30, 2012 10:24 AM EST up reply actions  

That's not really true

Thunder for example going through wayyyyy less change than we did this offseason…We went through a good amount, haven’t really had legit practice time to put it all together.

I still think we should be beating at least some of these teams just b/c we do have more talent…but that doesn’t always mean wins unfortunately.

by jlaw on Jan 30, 2012 11:29 AM EST up reply actions  

not the same issues at all

the team we had before the melo trade had issues to iron out and were far from in sync before being torn up, same as the squad before that.

ppl ony think chemistry is about the players getting used to eachother but with the roster being in a state of flux got several seasons a team that made a single off season trade retaining guys who played major minutes is gonna have an easier time adjusting in a compacted seasonal than a team thats made several moves over several years in a compacted season. coaches need to adjust to, and thats kinda hard when major contributors keep departing.

sreh ladien e' ta janjia

by Lord Smackington on Jan 30, 2012 2:21 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

sorry mobile device ...fat chkn wing fingers

point is, not exactly the same situation. there are a number of brnefits Denver has going for itself.

sreh ladien e' ta janjia

by Lord Smackington on Jan 30, 2012 2:24 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

Wide consensus

On CBS Poll alone, with 36,000 votes at the time I saw it, fans voted 16% that Mike was the problem with the Knicks. 25% voted front office. 59% said the players. 84% were not wrong. While I do agree with your last sentence, it has nothing to do with “let’s all rally around world class melo.” It needs to be lets alll rally around eachother. Every player needs to sacrifice for the good of the team. It’s not how can Amar’e and Melo coexist, it’s how can they get the whole team involved and focused on the floor. After our top 3 the dropoff in talent is deep, especially with no depth. Amar’e isn’t the only one who needs a point guard to be successful. People who blame melo may not be 100% correct, but neither is the other side of the argument who thinks the offense should be tailor made to fit world class player X. IT doesn’t work if the talent isn’t there. IT sure as hell doesn’t happen over night in a rag tag season like this.

by screamedia on Jan 30, 2012 9:21 AM EST up reply actions  

The "consensus" here on P&T seems to consist mainly of you...

since you post about D’Antoni every 25 seconds or so.

by robk on Jan 30, 2012 9:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Just wait til this team "gets it".

Remember Miami last year when their offense looked horrible at the beginning of the year and that’s what everyone was saying? Let them same be said for NY, because once Amare and Melo get it and realize how to make this work they will be impossible. Come on Miami worked and granted LeBron and Wade are a hell of a lot better than Amare & Melo, but I think Melo and Amare compliment each other so much more. Remember the heats offense last year how bad it was, now they both found a way to make it work and realize they are both athletic as hell and are throwin alley oops left and right. Come on guys, these two are superstars they’ll make this work

by OFWG1554 on Jan 30, 2012 1:48 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

I do not want Elton Brand

Everyone ready to deal STAT to Philly please understand that Philly will start by offering Elton Brand.

by DaShipBeSinkin on Jan 30, 2012 8:27 AM EST reply actions  

Carmelo for Jrue and Iggy

Bring the Damaja back to NY, cuz the Sun rises in the East.

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Jan 30, 2012 9:07 AM EST reply actions  

Danilo plays on the Nuggets.

That’s the mantra that needs to be used against this kind of nonsense.

by erniesto on Jan 30, 2012 9:11 AM EST up reply actions  

pretty sure the reference just flew right over your head.

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Jan 30, 2012 9:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Easily remedied

Though I’m pretty sure you’re serious about trading Carmelo.

by erniesto on Jan 30, 2012 9:13 AM EST up reply actions  

I've always been serious about trading Carmelo

and always didn’t like the idea that we traded for him. But there’s a Jrue and an Iggy that play in Philly, and there was a Jeru that made an album about the Sun rising in the East.

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Jan 30, 2012 9:16 AM EST up reply actions  

thats not the trade

that Philly has in mind

"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy

by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jan 30, 2012 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

like I ever gave a shit what the city of Philadelphia wants.

Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows

by Rorschach44 on Jan 30, 2012 6:27 PM EST up reply actions  

nice one, internet tough guy

both sides need to agree to a trade. thats why its a trade.

"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy

by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jan 30, 2012 7:09 PM EST up reply actions  

The Knicks should not trade Amare Stoudemire

for the following reason:
Sucessful teams build a roster and keep it together. The Knicks have been Terrible for a decade because they have had zero stability, which shows a lack of vision and direction by the franchise. If the Knicks truly want to become a championship caliber organization they need to pick a direction and stick with it. Changing players and coaches as frequently as the Knicks have over the last decade is part of the reason the Knicks have spent much of the last decade as a joke. the Knicks have had 7 different head coaches in the last 10 years. How do you make progress like that. D’Antoni is the longest serving Knicks coach of the decade (266 games) in his first year he coached 23 different players, year 2 20 different players. year 3 20 players and this season he has 8 new players. That is 71 players over the course of 4 seasons. How in the hell does Dolan expect this team to be anything more than a joke. D’Antoni has coached so many guys I doubt he remembers their names. So an organization that is screaming for stability wants more instability? The definition of insanity is doing the same things and expecting different results.

by Robert Curre on Jan 30, 2012 2:38 PM EST reply actions   2 recs

100%

i myself have been saying this for sometime, but it’s as if ppl want a championship overnight. we currently have proven players with proven experience that happen to be playing like crap. it is more likely they need more time learning to play together and the coaches figuring strategy on how to utilize that, than it is that the coaches forgot how to coach and tje players can’t play all of a sudden.

it’s a process and part of that process may just mean a losing season this year. Anyone who thought this was gonna be a cake walk and we wouldnt take any lumps along the way doesnt know this team.

sreh ladien e' ta janjia

by Lord Smackington on Jan 30, 2012 2:53 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

I gotta disagree with you on this one

I’ve seen enough of Stat to be convinced that he is not worth the $ he’s being paid. He’s a one-dimensional player whose game is predicated on elite athleticism that is visibly diminishing and will continue to do so at an even more rapid rate. He’s a subpar rebounder and atrocious defender (cannot be overemphasized – he’s embarrassing on D). He can’t score as well as he used to in ISOs, increasingly looks to shoot midrange jumpers, and just generally looks worse as time goes on. I understand that the Knicks’ lack of PG effects him most adversely, but the dude has the 9th biggest salary in the league. He should be able to do more than finish on a PnR. And if he gets badly injured, we’re a guaranteed lottery team for the next three years.

If the team had been given time to gel and form an identity, I’d be more inclined to agree with you. Keep em together and see what they can do. Right now, however, the team is in dissarray, has no identity, and looks to be a collection of ill-fitting parts. In such a situation, I’d choose to unload Amare because:

A. Apparently, theres a team that is willing to offer building block parts for him (rumors, I know).
B. Its doubtful his value will ever increase
C. If he gets hurt, we’re so fucked
D. He requires too many other parts to maximize his value (A good PnR PG, a C to cover his defensive and reb liabilities).

"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy

by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jan 30, 2012 3:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Fine lets keep doing what we have been doing for a decade since it has worked so well

for us. We have had more coaches and more players than any team in the league this past decade, We have traded half rosters in whole seasons. We have fired coaches and hired new ones. And yet nothing has worked becasue we do not stick with it long enough.

by Robert Curre on Jan 30, 2012 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm still taking the wait and see with this team.

I’m confident that they’ll play much better once they get healthy and roles are better defined.

But I cant deny the risk that holding on to Amare poses. Even if he doesnt get hurt, he still hasnt shown enough development in his game that makes me think he can still be an elite player without world-class athleticism. He can hit a midrange jumper, but he has no iso moves, can’t get space without a pick, and has only gotten worse as a rebounder and defender. Its extreme to invoke Shawn Kemp, but he reminds me more of an aging Kemp than any other player.

I’ll stick with Melo. I’ll stick with Fields. I’ll stick with Chandler. I’d have stuck with Gallo. These are guys that I think you can win with. I’d have no problem sticking with Amare too, if his contract was insured and he was paid 5 mill a year less. But he’s an underperforming possible albatross whose value is still high enough to get some real players in a trade.

"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy

by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jan 30, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions  

he's overpaid if we're operating under the assumption gm's make great money decisions all the time

but reality is that we pretty much got him mrkt value but thats probably because so many teams out there were over spending.

sreh ladien e' ta janjia

by Lord Smackington on Jan 30, 2012 3:26 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

B. Its doubtful his value will ever increase

On the contrary, his value has never been lower.

For a guy who excels—as in, is probably the best in the NBA—at scoring in an uptempo, PnR based offense, trading him after 20 games in which he’s been saddled with “passing” from Toney Douglas, Iman Shumpert, the corpse of Mike Bibby, Jeremy freakin’ Lin and Carmelo Anthony.

I believe Carmelo will always be kryptonite for Amar’e’s game, and wouldn’t object to a trade of one or the other (I’d rather trade Melo, for many reasons, but that’s for a different comment). But getting rid of Amar’e now is a terrible idea, because his trade value is the most (artifically) depressed by the fact that our PG play has been historically bad. With a decent PG he is an All-NBA player, with a very good PG he is a more effective scorer than Melo ever has been or will be.

by flossy on Jan 30, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I think

most GMs are willing to dismiss 20ish games after the good season he had last year. After a full season of depressed performance, I’m not as confident

"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy

by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jan 30, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

So why can't you dismiss the 20 games he's played this season (some of which were quite good)

And realize he’s had a very successful career and will likely rebound?

Also, in my opinion, I’m not too worried about Stoudemire’s ability to play as he gets older. We saw last year that he has an effective mid-range J, and he’s shown a touch all the way out to the 3-point line. When he gets older, assuming he’ll have an actual competent point guard to play with, he’ll be able to get those shots as well as some drives to the hoop, even if it means he won’t be dunking all over dudes.

Agreed with everyone saying not to trade him. Especially after only a 1.25 seasons spent here. If he still has not rebounded by the deadline of the 2012-13 season, I’m sure he’ll be gone

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by WSD on Jan 30, 2012 3:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Its not like I think he's gonna be dogshit

I just dont like the idea of paying a guy 18 mill a season to finish on a pick and roll and shoot 16 footers. Charles Oakley did that for a fraction of the cost (accounting for inflation), but still managed to rebound like a maniac and play elite defense.

Placing so much of your franchise’s future on Amare is just a bad look. He’s a scorer and not much else at his best, and bottom-5 record guarantee if he isnt.

"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy

by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jan 30, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

In Oak's last 4 seasons in New York

he averaged 10.6 pts 9.1 rebounds and never shot 50% from the floor. Also Oakley made a lot more money than you think, remember he played for the Knicks back when you could defer payments on contracts. Now Oak got the bulk of his deferred doe after he was traded to Toronto but the raptors were paying off his Knicks money.

by Robert Curre on Jan 30, 2012 4:06 PM EST up reply actions  

you know what I was getting at

oakley could play D, rebound, and hit the 20 footer. We didnt need to pay him like we payed ewing, though

"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy

by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jan 30, 2012 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Completely Disagree...

Robert has the right idea…

Also keep in mind that this team is incomplete, we don’t have our point guard or our best player playing right now. In response to your reasons we should trade Amar’e:

A. We need more building blocks? What for so we can have another couple of guys that don’t know the system and haven’t played with the team before.
B. His value will increase exponentially when we have a PG, any PG. Right now the closest we have to a point guard is Lin and he was playing D League ball last weekend. TD and Shump are not point guards. Amar’e made Felton look a lot better than he actually is last year.
C. Anybody can get hurt. Amare has been pretty durable so far, why would you question that now?
D. He’s been playing stretches of decent D so far and we do have one of the best defensive centers in the league playing next to him.

Trading Amar’e is just a bad idea.

by robk on Jan 30, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

A. The two stars don’t compliment each other well. You ditch the one who is more limited so you can get better, cheaper, younger parts.

B. That you think Lin is even an NBA player makes me question why I’m responding to this. Baron wont fix the fact that nobody on the team can shoot. The paint will still be clogged up for Amare. Baron’ll make the team better, but he can’t fix all of the problems this team has

C. Everyone can get hurt. Everyone in the league is also able to be insured for 80% of their contract value. Except Amare. And remember that he did get hurt at only the most crucial time of the whole season last year. And has had two microfracture surgeries.

D. Don’t pretend that Amare is anything other than one of the worst defenders in the league.

"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy

by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jan 30, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Doesn't matter. D'Antoni is gone in about 5 days

and Amare will be gone 5 mins after him. Then We will have Mike Woodson’s let Melo Iso all damn day offense. What’s the record for shot attempts in a game? I bet you Melo breaks it this season with Woodson coaches. ofcourse we will lose because going 18 for 80 is not very good but it will be fun to see him literally launch til his arm falls off!

by Robert Curre on Jan 30, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Thats a separate thing

There’s problems, both actual and potential, abound with this team. Sticking it out might be what it takes, but if things don’t look better after that, then what?

"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy

by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jan 30, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

It's too bad
A. The two stars don’t compliment each other well. You ditch the one who is more limited so you can get better, cheaper, younger parts.

It’s too bad, ‘cause I actually think that under good conditions, Amar’e is easily the better player than Melo. He has combined scoring volume and efficiency in a way that Melo never will, and his preferred style of play is one that lends itself to co-operation and chemistry, rather than just constant, grinding isolation. Trading for Melo was honestly pretty retarded since we already had Amar’e, and the nail in his coffin was when we decided it was more important to pay a center $14 million than have a professional NBA PG on the roster.

So I am beginning to resign myself to the fact that either Melo or Amar’e is going to get shipped out. Frankly, I would rather we retain D’Antoni, flip Melo for an elite PG (looking at you, Deron) and run with a team built around D-Will/Amar’e/Chandler and good, efficient role players (Fields) and defenders (Shumpert) on the wing.

Of course, since Dolan runs this team, we’re going to trade Amar’e for pennies on the dollar for the corpse of Elton Brand, probably, along with a 3 year subscription to the washed-up-PG-of-the-month club and a perennial 1st/ round exit in the playoffs. Yay.

And FWIW, you are making way too big a deal about the insurance on Amar’e’s contract. The only person that affects is James Dolan. Who is currently paying Chauncey Billups $12m to play for the Clippers, so who cares. If Amar’e has to retire due to injury a la Brandon Roy there are injury exceptions we can use to get that cap space back.

by flossy on Jan 30, 2012 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

We've obviously always disagreed on this

I’m not going go into another Amare and Melo comparison. I’ll just say that I think Melo is playing at his absolute basement right now. He’ll be far more efficient when he doesnt have to worry about pretending to distribute to a team bereft of anyone who can hit an outside shot. Utilize him like Dallas utilizes Dirk and you get the most out of him.

"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy

by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jan 30, 2012 4:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Okay, well
Melo is playing at his absolute basement right now.

So is Amar’e?

He’ll be far more efficient when he doesnt have to worry about pretending to distribute to a team bereft of anyone who can hit an outside shot.

Amar’e would be far more efficient if he didn’t have, literally, the worst group of “point guards” ever assembled on one team.

Utilize him like Dallas utilizes Dirk and you get the most out of him.

Dirk has a career .582 TS% and shoots 38% from 3. Melo? .544 and 32%. And this, from a player who is really only good at one thing, scoring. Carmelo Anthony is seriously vastly inferior to Dirk.

by flossy on Jan 30, 2012 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

All of the Knicks are playing the worst

that theyve ever played. We all agree that a point guard will help the squad.

Melo, though, is playing out of position, starting with the ball in his hands outside the three point line and still managing a 20+ PER, getting 7 boards a game and averaging 4.5 assists. Amare is getting the ball in the high post, where he theoretically, being an 18 mill player, should be able to do something to create a shot other than a jumper, but can’t and routinely embarrasses himself. He’s got a 15 PER, shoots 43% and turns the ball over just as often as Melo despite having the ball much less. If Amare really is barely a league average PF without a good PG (he’s actually 31st amongst PFs in PER) then thats a real indictment of his game.

"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy

by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jan 30, 2012 5:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Come on, don't cherry pick

Melo’s eFG% is a putrid .428, his PER is high because of his shooting volume and he gets assists by default by having the ball in his hands on every play. He’s having a worse season than Gallo!

I don’t think you can fault Amar’e for not being able to create his own offense from 18 feet away when he gets the ball, defended, at a standstill. That has never been his game, and you’d have to be criminally stupid (paging James Dolan) to set up a team so that that’s how he’d be used. It’s like blaming a wide receiver for not racking up huge yardage in the total absence of a quarterback. Melo is more like a running back—he’ll never be as effective or dominant as a good PG/WR combo, but he needs and wants less from his PG/QB in order to be reasonably effective.

by flossy on Jan 30, 2012 5:22 PM EST up reply actions  

OH hell Amare needs someone to Pass him the ball

He Sucks, get him the fuck out of here. 6’10 250lbs power forwards shouldn’t have to constantly try to dribble in the paint from 20 feet out. Or be asked to go hump the 3 pt line. Amare is a power forward not a fucking 2 guard. ABS you seem to be criticizing him because he is a big man and needs to be passed the ball like one.

by Robert Curre on Jan 30, 2012 5:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Melo's efficiency #s are bad, no doubt

but he’s found ways to contribute. Amare finds ways for league average big men to look like Karl Malone.

The year the Suns had Shaq, they ran a ton of iso sets for Amare. Back then, he was able to get a step on a guy and make a move toward the basket. He hasn’t been getting the ball in optimal position this year, but he has been getting it with one on one coverage in the high and low post, where he’s continually looked very very bad. If we’re at the point in his career where he is only effective if he can get the ball in perfect position as the roll man on a PnR, then thats not worth 18 million.

"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy

by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jan 30, 2012 5:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Um

To say he has not been getting the ball in optimal position is a massive understatement. He has been getting the ball 20 feet from the rim, standing still, with his man in front of him, AND Tyson Chandler’s man, AND another willing help defender because nobody on our team can hit a goddamn outside shot. Is he really supposed to dribble-drive through 3 defenders in order to score? What other PF in the NBA has to do that night in and night out?

Saying that Amar’e is done because he can’t get his offense going (though still, ahem, shooting better than Melo) under the worst possible circumstances is unfair, especially since he could easily have pitched a fit over how badly he’s been screwed by the arrival of Melo and decision to do without a PG and has been nothing but a team player to this point.

by flossy on Jan 30, 2012 5:59 PM EST up reply actions  

His Per was 23.2 prior to Melo coming to town

And finished at 22.7 last season with Melo. So if his per is 15.8 but he consistently posted a per over 20 before hooking up with Melo and given that the Knicks had a winning percentage of .518 before Melo and in roughly the same Number of games the Knicks winning percentage is .397 with Melo. I get it the solution is to ship out Amare, because everyone Knows that Melo is a winner and a star and makes everyone around him better except Every Knicks player on the team since virtually every last single one of them has a lower PER than last season without MELO.

by Robert Curre on Jan 30, 2012 5:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Currence please

You discount all of Amare’s shortcomings because he has no PG, then kill Melo because he’s being forced to fill that role even though he’s never done it in his life. The Knicks record last year was basically the same both before and after the trade. Now, though, they dont have any backcourt at all and you attribute all the failures to Melo. Thats bull and you know it.

"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy

by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jan 30, 2012 5:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe 'cause we were force-fed a load of bull about how he's such a great passer

who makes his teammates better? Melo, the more versatile of the two could probably have adapted his game so that Amar’e continued to be effective while still putting up big numbers himself. Is it really too much to ask that he bought into the system that was bringing the Knicks the most success they’d experienced in a decade? Instead Amar’e has been rendered a spectator in the Carmelo Anthony show, while Melo runs out the clock on Mike D’Antoni’s coaching career.

by flossy on Jan 30, 2012 5:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Whose fault is that?

He has the ability and court vision to make great passes, but he’s always been a scorer. Blame lies with management, Toney Douglas, and Mike D that Carmelo Anthony was asked to be a PG. Even if he did just facilitate, who would score? None of the Knicks have been able to throw the ball in the ocean. Ask a straight up scorer to pass the ball to a bunch of people who cant score for their life and you get what we’ve seen.

This is all very frustrating. Its been ugly no matter who you’re a fan of. We can agree that none of our guys are as bad as theyve been playing, but to blame Melo for all of it is misguided. Let’s just hope Baron restores some rhythm and that a couple guys knock down some open jumpers.

"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy

by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jan 30, 2012 5:55 PM EST up reply actions  

If he has the most ability to make passes and best court vision on the team

maybe he should apply himself to distributing? Since that’s obviously what his team so desperately needs, and there are other proven, capable scorers on the roster? Is that so much to ask from someone worth not only a max contract but also the exchange for 3-4 rotation players and multiple draft picks?!

I mean can you honestly think of more than 3-4 times this entire season he and Amar’e have run a 2-man game? Or a stretch of more than 6 minutes where Melo ran the offense unselfishly without reverting back to “oops, you missed, time for me to take the next 8 shots” mode?

by flossy on Jan 30, 2012 6:04 PM EST up reply actions  

In all fairness....

that’s what he was doing the last couple of games before he sat out and ball movement was fairly good against Charlotte. The Cleveland game was just awful though.

by robk on Jan 30, 2012 6:13 PM EST up reply actions  

ABS you brought up Per, Well Amar'e had

a pretty decent PER before Melo, and for Most of his damn career. So you have to look at what has changed. Also it is not just Amare but several players are playing far worse with Melo than without him. If you didn’t want the comparision made you shouldn’t have opened the door.

by Robert Curre on Jan 31, 2012 9:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Correlation versus causation

The cause for everyones diminished productivity is the lack of backcourt. No PG or shooters to space the floor.

When they were playing their true positions and Billups ran the point, there was a loss of less than a point in Amare’s PER.

"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy

by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Jan 31, 2012 1:29 PM EST up reply actions  

The guards have all played worse with Melo too

Namely Toney Douglas and Landry Fields

KNICKS NOW
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by WSD on Jan 31, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

they picked a direction with MDA and Amare...

than they traded away players that had the skillset that was alligned with that direction for a player who goes in his own direction. even tyson takes us in a different direction than our coach is used to.

i agree with the sentiment, but it is not the reality of our organization. we’re going in all kinds of directions… which breeds losing basketball… which raises the question… why stick with it?

by bucketsncents on Jan 31, 2012 7:25 AM EST up reply actions  

A. I don’t think they’ve had enough time together with a competent point guard. Chauncey wasn’t right in our offense and this year we haven’t had a point guard.
B. I don’t think Lin is an NBA level player but he’s more of a point guard than TD or Shump and Bibby just doesn’t have any more in his tank.
C. The insurance situation is what it is. He’s healthy now and just starting to get his legs back.
D. His defense is not amazing but again that’s one of the reasons we have Tyson.

by robk on Jan 30, 2012 3:49 PM EST reply actions  

Jeff recommends patience

This is not an easy process what they’re going through. The Knicks gutted their team twice; once to get under the cap and to get the Carmelo Anthony trade accomplished. They don’t have nearly the depth of talent that Miami has. To expect them to compete with Miami in a series right now . . . that’s not happening."

Van Gundy added that in order for the Knicks to be in the same class with Miami they’ll need better guard play, quality depth and most importantly the team’s two superstars have to play together.

"I think they’ll figure that out," Van Gundy said of Anthony and Stoudemire. "There is an important lesson you learn as far back as kindergarten – sharing. That means sharing the responsibility, sharing being a great example in practice, sharing the ball, sharing the unglamorous work of defending and rebounding. All those things are directly related to the end product, which is trying to win a championship."

"Listen, you really have to want to play in New York," he said. "It’s not for everyone. When you play in New York you’re going to be given an incredible platform to perform on, but you’re going to be held to a high standard by the fans. And there is nothing wrong with that.

by Robert Curre on Jan 30, 2012 5:06 PM EST reply actions  

It's crazy how

if you talk about firing D’antoni people make excuses like he never had a stable roster, he had no players, yadda yadda. You make the best of what you have, and D’antoni so far, has’nt done that. Is that entirely his fault, absolutely not, but part of his problem is that he has’nt adjusted his playing style to the talent on the roster. I think the Knicks should play a half court style with the ball going inside to Amare and Chandler because we have some decent shooters on the team. Amare needs a facilitator to get him easy buckets while Melo can get his own shot, so I think they can play together because there game is different. Even though Landry and TD are not playing well this team should NOT be this bad. I think people get caught up in revisionist history too much, pre- Melo the Knicks gave up 105 pts a game and were on like a 5 game losing streak. They were fun to watch and I loved ILL Will and Gallo, but let’s be honest, those two had a habit of disappearing in games down the stretch. And Felton was averaging almost 40 min a game, how long before he would have broken down. That team, I believe, would not have made the playoffs the way the Pacers and Sixers played down the stretch. I think this marriage of Melo and Stat can work, but like all the D’antoni apologists would cite, it needs more time.

by mrluck35 on Jan 30, 2012 5:55 PM EST reply actions  

I agree....

but I think D’Antoni has tried to make the best of what he has. Our offense definitely isn’t 7 seconds or less thats for sure. Really it comes back around to the non existent point guard situation. I think Amare and Melo can play together but it’s gonna take a smart and skilled point guard to make it happen. Hopefully Baron is the PG, it’s definiitely not, TD, Shump, or Lin though…

by robk on Jan 30, 2012 6:17 PM EST up reply actions  

It's really crazy how, I just basically quoted Jeff Van Gundy

Now since Van Gundy used to actually coach and some of you would cream your shorts if he came back to coach this team, maybe he knows something about how roster disruption and what not effect a team. Think you know better? Maybe you do, but it still remains the above is Jeff’s take on the situation.

by Robert Curre on Jan 31, 2012 9:41 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree for the most part

yes it’s a flawed roster, but many teams have a flawed roster. It’s up to the coach to adjust to his team’s strengths and utilize. dantoni is just staying with the same script even tho it’s not working. I was a big fan of Will’s too, but I will take Melo over him any day. and gallo was frustrating the way he would shrink in key situations and the end of games. This team has the superstar and great complimentary pieces in Amare, Tyson, Iman and Fields. Just need to add a few more key parts and tweaks and the Knicks will be a very dangerous team in the future.

You just got Tysoned!!!!!!

by Jason Bee on Jan 31, 2012 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Wrong Jason

Actually he went way off script. When asked what he would do without a point guard at the start of the season he said run the offense through Carmelo. Now that is what all other coaches do when they do not have even a competent point guard. Notice Miami and the Lakers do not really have better talent at point guard than we do. Brown runs his offense through Kobe, Spoelstra through Lebron. When you have a dynamic perimeter scorer you can use him to disrupt the defense and create space and opportunities for others. That is the script D’Antoni went with. Why has it not worked. Simple Kobe and Lebron are superstars and Carmelo isn’t in their league. Lebron James is shooting 55% from the field. Even though he is dominating the ball basically as much as Carmelo he is creating high percentage shots for himself and therefore forcing opposing defenses to commit help defenders to him, which opens up opportunities for his teammates offense. Chris Bosh who like Amare needs someone to get him the ball in order to score, is shooting 52% from the floor this season which means that eventhough Lebron dominates the ball, when it does get to Bosh he is getting high percentage shots out of the offense. Kobe is shooting his usual 45% from the floor and dominates the ball more than any player in the league. He however while not as effective this season as Lebron has been pretty damn good. Pau and Bynum need people to get them the Ball just like Amare and they are shooting 51% for Pau and 54% for Bynum. Which means for all of his supposed ball hogging when kobe does give it up he is getting his two main guys high percentage shots. Carmelo is shooting 39% because he either can’t or is too stupid to get himself higher percentage shots. As a result he puts zero pressure on the defense (really if you were coaching against the Knicks would you commit help defenders with Carmelo content to launch contested 20ft brick after Brick) as a result he is not breaking down the defense and as a result his main guy Amare isn’t getting good shots. Phil Jackson, Red Auerbach, or Red Holzman could be coaching the Knicks right now and the record would be the same, because they all would have tried to run the offense through Melo and given that thus far he has failed miserably, they would fail. D’Antoni did what you are suppose to do when you don’t have a playmaker at the point and a supposed star on the perimeter, put the ball in the hands of your star. Unfortunately for him and the Knicks his “star” hasn’t played like one. The heat are where they are because Lebron has played like a superstar. The Lakers are 9-4 in their last 13 games because Kobe has played like a Superstar. The Knicks are 7-13 because Melo either isn’t a superstar or hasn’t played like one.

by Robert Curre on Jan 31, 2012 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

it is not melo hate it is the facts.

This is not the offense he ran with Nash or even Felton last year. He tried to run his offense through Melo and it hasn’t worked. I just merely pointed out that D’Antoni tried to do what other coaches have done when they didn’t have a point guard. Unfortunately for him and the Knicks Melo did not prove to be up to the task like other real Superstars like Kobe and Lebron. D’Antoni gave Carmelo a chance to get adoration, be the hero and a bonafide MVP. Carmelo swears he is a top five player, well this season he hasn’t even played like the 20th best player in the league SI ranked him as. Now maybe Carmelo will turn it around and begin to play at a star level, but that remains to be seen. So actually D’Antoni’s hand wringing and praying for Baron Davis to get healthy is actually his attempt to return to the same old script. Put the ball in the hands of a point guard and let him run the show. He is turning to that because so far it looks like Melo is not up to the task.

by Robert Curre on Jan 31, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Amare should go melo should stay

Melo is younger has less history of injuries has never missed the playoffs in his career is a top three player at his posision amare may not even be in the top five power forward and you wanna talk about building around somebody melo can play well with less than amare with amare all you hear is he cant play without a point guard he cant play with tyson chandler in the paint all the time everyone makes excuses for amare but before melo got hurt in the memphis game look at his numbers he was playing fantastic closed out the boston game Amares situation is too big a risk to take if he is tradeable trade him

by titansfan3q7 on Jan 31, 2012 4:11 PM EST reply actions  

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