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Around SBN: What If This Is It For The Celtics? End Of An Era Looming

Amare Stoudamire, Mike D'antoni and the future of the Knicks


I'm one of the old school Knicks fans that remembers before Mike D'antoni, before Don Nelson, before Jeff Vangundy and Pat Riley. I remember guys like Stu Jackson and Rick Pitino. I've seen winners and the decade long losers. What I see now is one of the worst teams from top to bottom in the NBA. Don't get me wrong, I like the players, and I will always love this team.

To expect this team to compete for a championship is like expecting Whitney Houston to get off the crack pipe. From top to bottom, the coaching staff, players, GM, and owner are all on different pages, and as long as it stays that way this team won't mesh. They are the NBA equivalent to the Oakland Raiders, with James Dolan playing the role of Al Davis (RIP Al). I've heard several rumors about the movement of players, as well as the lack of contract extension for the head coach. Without further delay, this is what needs to happen for this team to get back to the glory days of yesteryear.

Star-divide

Mike D'antoni's replacement is already in place in Mike Woodson. If you remember in Phoenix, the Suns let Mike walk away because he couldn't field a winner despite them constantly putting pieces in place to improve his defense. They started with Grant Hill, and Shawn Merion, and brought in Shaquille O'neal to increase the defensive presence on the Suns. Then they brought in a defensive assistant coach to help improve the defense. Sound familiar?

This Knicks team has brought in Carmelo and Amare, brought in defensive players like Tyson Chandler and Jared Jeffries to help and brought a defensive assistant coach Mike Woodson. The Phoenix Suns transition is complete when you add in the aging point guard in the form of Baron Davis. Here's where that story ends and a new one begins.

The Suns brought in Alvin Gentry to be a defensive minded head coach, but he didn't pan out. The Knicks have brought in Mike Woodson who is a defensive head coach, and he is the real deal. Woodson was drafted by the Knicks in the 1st round of the 1980 draft.

He took the Hawks from a perennial doormat following the departure of Dominique Wilkins and made them a viable team again always in the middle of the playoff hunt. He's young enough to be relevant. He has the actual credentials of playing in NY and being drafted by NY. He was an NBA journeyman, so he knows how to be a hard worker. When you think about the Hawks there is no Stoudamire, there is no Carmello. There is Joe Johnson and a bunch of pretty good, but not star players. Mike might get fired this year, or he may serve out the rest of this year and not return as the head coach next year. Make no mistake though. Mike Woodson is not going anywhere. He's getting to know players this year. He is what is known as hedging your bet, and he is the one that will pay off when D'antoni is finally fired or not re-signed. As soon as he takes over you will see a team that plays defense better, plays more team ball, and actually runs plays so that players get the ball in spots where they can do something with it.

The other thing I wanted to address is the trade rumors that always come up around the trade deadline. I've been hearing more and more of them, and I'm starting to believe that something will happen within the next 30 days. The 2 main rumors are that Amare Stoudamire will/might be traded. The first scenario was to the Orlando Magic for Dwight Howard and Hedo Terkaglu. More recently though, it's been all over Philadelphia radio stations that the 76ers are making a big push to trade for him.

At first I didn't believe it, but when you look at the salary cap and the fact that the Knicks need depth, youth and quality, and Stoudamire and Anthony can't play together, I think its a better than 50/50 shot that Stoudamire is traded. He is in the 2nd year of a 5 year deal in which he's averaging over 20 million a year. He's 29 and has a bad back and knees that are holding up OK. I can already tell from watching him that he doesn't have the lift or explosiveness in getting to the rim and might best be suited as an undersized center.

I like him, but I hope they take the trade and run. There are only 3 guys making money on the team. Anthony (20 mil), Stoudamire (20 mil), and Tyson Chandler (15 mil). The next player salary-wise after them is making 1.6 mil and under.

If the Knicks can trade him to division rival 76ers, they can get the most out of the deal. Orlando is rumored to want to package Terkaglu and he is owed 15 million over the next 3 years. The 76ers have a lot of young talent though, and players that have either managable or expiring contracts. They can offer Evan Turner, Jodie Meeks, Jrue Holiday, a draft pick, or the expiring deal of Elton Brand (next season).

A new head coach and a salary dump of a 100 million dollar contract that is already starting to slip is in the best interest of the long term future of this team. As a stop gap measure there are power forwards available like Kenyon Martin who could sign for a vet minimum. The Knicks could then trade Stoudamire for either Elton Brand or Andre Igudala as well as either Jrue Holiday and Evan Turner or a young player and a draft pick.

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really now....?

you think mike woodson the man who invented the iso-joe offense is gonna demand team ball from his players….theres a reason why the hawks were always first round fodder with woodson at the helm, but with larry drew they look like a little bit more dangerous team

im not hopeless anymore i just dont know how to change my name

by hopelessknickfan on Jan 31, 2012 11:13 AM EST reply actions  

couple that with the fact that we have the ultimate ball stopper melo on our squad, if woodson is the coach i may have to stop watching the knicks, its gonna be all melo all the time and amare’s just gonna waste away on the weak side elbow just watching

im not hopeless anymore i just dont know how to change my name

by hopelessknickfan on Jan 31, 2012 11:14 AM EST up reply actions  

No

I think that he found a way that worked for the Hawks to start winning and it worked. You have to remember at the time he started, who were the playmkars on the Hawks? There was no Jeff Teague, Crawford, or legit playmakers. Joe Johnson was a great ballhandler and could get his own shot. Every other player on the Hawks needed to be set up to score. He found what worked and adapted his system to it. It worked so well that the Knicks were one of the teams looking to give Joe a 90-100 million dollar deal.

The Knicks have Shumpert, Anthony, maybe Baron Davis and a few others that can get their own shots up without running plays for them. They are not the same as the Hawks. I’m not saying he definately will be the coach, but he is a definate step forward from Mike D’antoni and his Euro league basketball.

by manuvsteal on Jan 31, 2012 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Ah, Euroleague basketball

Why does it always seem that the people typing that phrase have watched maybe one full game of Euro league ball?

New York Knicks = Sleeping Giants

by moose35 on Jan 31, 2012 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

There's no big push

The Sixers were doing, as Seth put it, their “due diligence”. If other players were being discussed, we’d have heard about it by now.

If D’Antoni goes, which I hope he doesn’t, then Amar’e gets traded with him. A Woodson iso-heavy style offense would be a worse situation for Amar’e than right now. I’m not ready to discuss what I’d want for Amar’e, because I think they can turn this around. The Knicks have been starting one of, if not the worst, back-courts in the league. Let Baron Davis come back, give him a couple of practices to gel, and see how it goes from there. This wasn’t going to be a championship team anyway, so building chemistry and defining roles before playoff time should be their only focus.

The defense is fine. Pretty good actually. With the offensive talent on this team, you have to think that they’ll turn it around sooner than later.

New York Knicks = Sleeping Giants

by moose35 on Jan 31, 2012 11:23 AM EST reply actions  

Another thing

Trading for Dwight Howard would be kind of redundant with Chandler on the team. I don’t think that happens, at all.

New York Knicks = Sleeping Giants

by moose35 on Jan 31, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

It was rumored.....

that the trade would be Chandler and STAT, going to Orlando for a package that was Dwight, Turk, with the possibilities of Big Baby and or Duhon coming as well.

by Jmtbuttero24 on Jan 31, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't think they would trade for him

being the Magic want to package him with a bad contract of another player. There is an unwritten rule in the NBA though. That is that you should try to get top 5 player at 2 or more positions and if you can get a top 1 player at a spot your a playoff team. Howard is a top 1 player at center. Stoudamire is not a top 5 in my opinion ( Kevin Love, Dirk Nowitski, Blake Griffin, Chris Bosh). If he’s not top 5 why does he have a 100 million deal?

by manuvsteal on Jan 31, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Think he’s in the next group with Garnett, David Lee, Boozer, and Tim Duncan sliding but still leading the pack of 2nd tier guys.

by manuvsteal on Jan 31, 2012 11:48 AM EST up reply actions  

He could be

I don’t really think Bosh is as good as he has been playing lately.. He is a product of Wade and James…He def. could be a top 5 PF but when the three are on the court he has got to step his game up like he did in the absence of Wade

by Jmtbuttero24 on Jan 31, 2012 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Keep Stat

and dump Melo. We are gonna get raped if we try to move STAT, Melo is a different story. I am sure there are plenty of covetous gms who might give us fair value (whatever that is). I prefer STATball to Meloball.

Dump Melo
If that doesn't work dump Pringles

by YuckFou on Jan 31, 2012 6:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Mike Woodson has a career .419 winning percentage as a head coach

206-286 record. In 6 seasons at the helm in Atlanta he had 2 seasons with a winning record. He publically fueded with his players and was run out of town after the most embarrassing performances in NBA playoff history. Not only were his Hawks swept they lost every game by an average of 25 pts.

Even After letting the Knicks rape his career winning percentage Mike D’Antoni has a career .535 winning pct as a coach. And that includes his 14 win season in Denver. When he was literally thrown in to coach the team when Paul Westhead resigned two days before the start of the season had his top 4 scorers miss most of the season. In 8 full seasons he has led his teams to winning records in 5 and made 5 playoff appearances.

As much as I like Mike Woodson as a person, and as a Black man would love to see the Knicks have a Black coach, I could not endorse Mike Woodson over Mike D’Antoni as coach. Woodson is a good assistant coach but has been below mediocre as a head coach. Replacing D’Antoni with Woodson would be the NBA equivalent of replacing Tom Coughlin with Wade Phillips to coach the Giants. Wade is a great defensive coordinator but his head coaching record proves that he is not a good head coach. Woodson has done a decent job improving the Knicks defense because he is in his area of competence. Not all good assistant coaches make good head coaches.

By the way it is spelled Stoudemire! If you are going to demand the guy be traded at least get his name right. Now you are smoking your lunch if you think the Sixers would offer any of their young talent for Amare. Especially since he would be acquired as an upgrade over Elton Brand. The Trade would be Brand for Amare and maybe the Knics could get a couple of draft picks out of the deal. Brand and Stoudemire’s salaries are within the match threshold so there wouldn’t be any need for Philly to throw in any filler. So yes that would be a great trade for Philly!!!!!! There is a reason why fans and the media are not GM’s.

by Robert Curre on Jan 31, 2012 2:11 PM EST reply actions  

ewwww...Wade Philips..lol

Only difference is Woodson does have a NBA championship ring on his coaching resume, while Phillips doesn’t have shit…..nor does dantoni…..but I do agree that Woodson is not answer at head coach either

You just got Tysoned!!!!!!

by Jason Bee on Jan 31, 2012 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I bet I'd make an amazing GM for the Knicks.

I’d make Rich Cho the 2nd best Asian GM in the league. Or the worst depending on your POV I guess.

I dream of Eddy Curry feeding me fish sticks.

Look at it Dave. Look at it.

by GAx on Feb 1, 2012 12:04 AM EST up reply actions  

I myself have been around since the Stu Jackson/Pitino era...

and completely miss the competitiveness and grit of the 80’s and 90’s… and i agree with 2 of the sentiments posted.

1) yes, there is ZERO continuity in this franchise. no philosophy. no vision… and as a result, no winning.

2) an unload of the coach and either melo or stat is warranted, though because of number 1, does not guarantee anything other than more tinkering.

but regarding mike woodson being a good heir apparent… i just don’t see it. his record, and his demeanor do not fill me with hope of a new direction… not that i can think of anyone else available… hey, is mike krycheshcivsky (i know, too lazy to look up the spelling of his name) interested?

by bucketsncents on Jan 31, 2012 4:31 PM EST reply actions  

NEVER!!!

Coach K will never leave the college game. I dont care how much money or anything else you throw at him, he wont do it. He’s been at it too long and loves it too much to go anywhere else. Plus IF he ever left, I think hed go to the Lakers. They have been interested in the past, and were the only team he ever thought about it for.

by Nickel06 on Jan 31, 2012 5:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Kryzewski (close enough)

to the NBA is like his hair turning grey. Just….won’t…..happen.

by The Shizknick on Jan 31, 2012 10:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I have been around since before Red Holzman

His teams mostly outsmarted their opponents. I feel sorry for all of you for not having had the good fortune to have been a fan of those Knick teams. While today’s game is much more physical, and the players probably more skilled, those teams could share the basketball and the glory like none since.

I hate losing more than I love winning -- Billy Beane

by YuckFou on Jan 31, 2012 10:59 PM EST up reply actions  

wow

I’m a Knick baby compared to you and Currence

I dream of Eddy Curry feeding me fish sticks.

Look at it Dave. Look at it.

by GAx on Feb 1, 2012 12:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Amazingly

I can still touch the rim, barely. Never could dunk because my hands are too small.

I hate losing more than I love winning -- Billy Beane

by YuckFou on Feb 1, 2012 1:02 AM EST up reply actions  

So "experienced"... with a name like YuckFou... very progressive.

Man I wish I knew those teams. Though the 90’s weren’t so bad.

by bucketsncents on Feb 1, 2012 6:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I respect you as a knicks fan.

But I disagree with the Woodson idea. I am not even so sure if Philly would be silly to trade away young talent when they are playing so well but there is always the business side to sports. Woodson was fired from the Hawks and he had one of the most inconsistent teams I had seen in a long time. they would win one game and then suddenly get blown out. If he such smart coach, how come he didn’t think about having Horfort guard Howard was a bad idea? He get’s fired and suddenly they beat the magic very easy. Why? Because Drew knew he could beat the magic by letting howard dominate while the other players are stopped from threes. Howard was putting up monster numbers but that was the whole plan as long as the threes were kept to a minimum.

Woodson never came to think about that and had Horfort guard Howard which got him in foul trouble. I don’t think replacing Mike with woodson is the solution and I see it as a nightmare.

by RASHADI on Feb 1, 2012 3:02 AM EST reply actions  

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