Would you trade Jeremy Lin for John Wall?
by Ball with Wall on Feb 10, 2012 2:02 AM EST
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Hello everyone, I am a BulletsForever member and I'm sure you know the state of my team and all that non-sense. I've been open to the idea of moving John Wall for a while, but understandably most there reject the notion and accuse me of trolling. I'm very interested to hear Knicks' fans take on this trade proposal, I don't want to add too much of my biased input so I'll leave it up to everyone here to discuss.
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thats the wrong ? to ask right now
check back in a week or two
by lets go buffalo on Feb 10, 2012 2:28 AM EST reply actions
this
but based on likability and what I have seen so far, no. Lin seems like a team first, make two people happy instead of one, kind of guy. Wall is really fast and good at getting his shot. The Knicks especially, with a few big scorers already (not to mention pricey guys), need a team first, make two people happy, kind of guy. Plus, he takes over the 4th quarter like he took over the second half in college – it has been sick
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
As far as trading Wall away from a Wiz fan perspective
Disagree with that too. He is a solid PG who needs a better surrounding cast, trading him would seem like a backwards move considering the guys currently on the team
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
Wall is an increadble talent but....
He is playing exacltly the way that he did in college and 1rst year in the NBA gets the ball in his hand and zooms down the court to make a score….with little regard for “team”….not the best PG Kentucky has had recently dispite getting picked for potential….Lin is building on the way he played in college and in the NBA with great court vision and team play….Lin is more of a true point guard at this point a makes his team better …..which will the Knicks need more in the future? Not a hard guess.
by Only In Fairfax on Feb 11, 2012 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
From the looks of it
the most money Jeremy Lin can get this summer is in the neighborhood of 4 years 20 million. John wall makes 6 million next year, has a team option after for 7.5 million, and then extension time where he signs 5 years 80 million if he has his way, they negotiate somewhere south of that, or he signs his 10 million qualifying offer and leaves in free agency the year after.
So John Wall for 3 years at 23.5 million, or 2 years at just under 14 million and negotiating an extension for after those 2 years.
What could also happen with Lin is signing him to a shorter contract, either 2 or 3 years with an option on the final year. After next season the knicks will have his bird rights, and can attempt to sign him to a 4 year deal at higher than the average salary. It will be interesting to see how this pays out, but the new CBA means that nobody can offer Jeremy Lin a Wesley Matthews type contract this offseason, and in 2 years John Wall will be expecting a raise from a Wesley Matthews type contract.
I just don’t see how Lin is the inferior option, provided this is the system in place. John Wall is the pg more likely to outplay the opposing teams point guard, while Jeremy Lin is more likely to play the opposing teams point guard to a near draw, with the added bonus of making his teammates more likely to outplay their counterparts.
by Not a Gunslinger on Feb 10, 2012 4:00 AM EST reply actions
That is a great point on the contract
The amount the two will be making for (hopefully) similar production makes Lin a much better value
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
I was wrong about the Lin contract I think
his contract is capped out at the mid level for the next 2 years, but after that he can be a max player with raises. System is that way so Lin and Wall become eligible for maxes at the same time. So the highest the knicks could offer him is 5 years and like 58 million, and the most anyone else can offer Lin as a free agent is 4 years 42 million. Lin and his agent will have to get creative when they do his next contract, because that MLE cap is there for two years regardless so they can go long and backload it to evenly distribute whatever level Lin shows himself.
by Not a Gunslinger on Feb 11, 2012 5:36 AM EST up reply actions
that is interesting that there are some wizards fans turning on wall . . .
it’s kind of hard to gauge him since his supporting cast is so bad and happens to collectively have the same weakness as him (low IQ). i think he’s a little bit of a bust, but he’s also in a bad environment, so I’ll give him a pass for now.
I don’t think Wall is exactly what the Knicks need . . . they’re not looking for electricity at the point guard position, just someone who can provide consistent pick and roll play and preferably solid defense and shooting. I think Wall plays a little too immaturely to be right for the Knicks right now who in theory want to contend in the near future (who knows if those goals are realistic . . .).
this sounds ridiculous because lin’s played three games, but I probably wouldn’t do it. knicks need a pick and roll point guard more than they need the talent of john wall.
Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate
No
These last few games are not a fluke. Doesn’t mean he’s going to go for 25 and 10 every night, but there will be plenty of 15 and 15s gotten with ease when Stat and Melo get back. I don’t see Wall as being the orchestrator/facilitator that Lin is. So Lin is a much better fit on THIS team, playing along side alpha dog 2 All-Stars.
i mean
yes. I would. Probably. I really like Lin… a ton. But damn dude, its been like 1 year and Wall was/is a STUD prospect. Him with a real team and a real coach? Could be insane.
But… idk… i do like Lin a ton. But damn dude… Wall is actually really really good. Your team just sucks. Dont throw out the baby with the bathwater. If you were to trade Wall for LIn, it would do nothing for your team. Lin would have nobody to pass too.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
I agree with this...
My Wife is a Patriot's fan...
"Giants rely on fumbles and stripping the ball. If the pats secure the ball, then the pats win, but if they fumble or let the ball get striped than the giants win. every game the giants play they always benefit from the other teams bonehead mistakes (fumbled or striped) not from thier skills. The giants are a dirty team, I can’t think of any othe team as dirty as the giants. They try to strip the ball as hard as they can because they know they can’t win a fair game." by EaglesNeedD on Jan 23, 2012 2:01 AM EST
by Giantssincesix on Feb 10, 2012 8:39 AM EST up reply actions
As opposed to against Utah or the Wiz?
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
im not sure i follow
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
He hasn't had many people to pass to himself
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
fuck yes 1000 times out of 1000 yes.
you’re a Wizards fan and asking? I’d expect a wackball Knicks fan to come up with this sort of bullshit, cmon man. John Wall is a beast its not his fault he’s got Nick Young chucking up bricks all game.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
I think
we will see more NO’s to this idea then YES’s… not to knock P&T folks. Or maybe I’m just an idiot to think that.
Wall >>>> Lin hands down.
My Wife is a Patriot's fan...
"Giants rely on fumbles and stripping the ball. If the pats secure the ball, then the pats win, but if they fumble or let the ball get striped than the giants win. every game the giants play they always benefit from the other teams bonehead mistakes (fumbled or striped) not from thier skills. The giants are a dirty team, I can’t think of any othe team as dirty as the giants. They try to strip the ball as hard as they can because they know they can’t win a fair game." by EaglesNeedD on Jan 23, 2012 2:01 AM EST
by Giantssincesix on Feb 10, 2012 8:40 AM EST up reply actions
Wall to me is just as good as Derrick Rose
its not his fault he’s coached by one of Bebe’s kids and his teammates are bunch of jack off juice experiments.
I think Lin is for real too. I think his numbers will look better after you sub Mare in for Jeffries. But you sub Wall in for Lin and I think we’re a real contender.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Pretty much the same player
Calipari is cheating… he just has to be, and then he leaves before sanctions come down. Still, pretty incredible to get two of the same guys 2 years in a row, and they were the consensus top player in the country and #1 overall pick. Rose may have been a little bigger than Wall, but wall is a better distributor.
Proud die-hard of the NFC West Champion San Francisco 49ers!
Whose got it better than us??? NOBODY!
by MetsKnicksRutgers on Feb 10, 2012 9:27 AM EST up reply actions
Whooaaa
As good as Derrick Rose…already??
I mean Wall certainly has the talent to be that good (or better)…but it’s not fair to compare him to the reigning MVP at this point. I’ll give you that he’s a better defender, but Rose turns the ball over less, is just as fast and athletic, and is more consistent.
I do agree, though, that Wall could potentially have more upside than Rose.
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
Rose has good players around him
Wall has trash
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Today right now
You think Rose and Wall are interchangeable?
Yeah Wall’s team sucks and Rose’s is a defensive stalwart but come on…
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
Rose defense would be fucktastically terrible if he didn't play with Thibs
yes, Wall and Rose are interchangeable.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Wall has an awful outside shot
Rose is no sharpshooter, but at least he’s serviceable. And Wall is more turnover-prone. Give me Rose any day, although I agree it’s difficult to fairly assess Wall with that shit roster.
Rose is much better than John Wall
stronger, more explosive, smarter, better shooter, better finisher.
Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate
harder worker
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
Yeah...
this is Linsanity
Proud die-hard of the NFC West Champion San Francisco 49ers!
Whose got it better than us??? NOBODY!
by MetsKnicksRutgers on Feb 10, 2012 8:43 AM EST up reply actions
Right.... how the hell is this poll nearly locked at 50/50???!!
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Feb 10, 2012 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
Seriously?
Are people really even thinking about this???
Lin has looked incredible. Downright filthy. But, it is 3 games. While I do think he will continue to contribute and play well, 25/8 is very VERY unrealistic. If he is a 14/8/2 guy I will be very happy. We are over the cap anyway, and if we could trade for Wall, just lock him up right there. There is a reason Wall has gotten as much hooplah as he has. The kid is freaking awesome.
Proud die-hard of the NFC West Champion San Francisco 49ers!
Whose got it better than us??? NOBODY!
by MetsKnicksRutgers on Feb 10, 2012 8:40 AM EST reply actions
And when I say are you people
I mean Wiz fans also. They would be crazy to do this trade… It’d be like trading Edgar Renteria or Juan Uribe after the 2010 post-season for Justin Upton because 2 were great in the post-season while one is a grissiion-less unclutch asshole.
Proud die-hard of the NFC West Champion San Francisco 49ers!
Whose got it better than us??? NOBODY!
by MetsKnicksRutgers on Feb 10, 2012 8:41 AM EST up reply actions
Straight up
Hell yes! I love Lin, but from a basketball perspective, there’s no way you don’t make that trade. Lin has been excellent…for 3 games. Theoretically, if he were to average 20/10 every night then I’d probably keep Lin, as he seems to be a great PG for D’Antoni’s system, but Wall is a monster. He’s a really good passer too. I wouldn’t even hesitate.
New York Knicks = Sleeping Giants
Wanna check out an awesome blog? http://cospeniazmi.blogspot.com
I love Lin and what he has done
but c’mon…John Wall?? uhh yea I would in a minute
You just got Tysoned!!!!!!
Good Gawd,
why is this even a question? Germy Lin has played well for three games. THREE GAMES. You could maaaybe argue that he’s playing at his ceiling right now, but it’s probably more likely that he’s playing above it right now. 23/10 is simply not sustainable for this cat. Sorry bros, but it’s true.
Wall has the potential and the talent to be a top 3 PG in the league. Sure he hasn’t put his shit together yet, but a turd wouldn’t be able to get his shit together on the Wizards.
I’d do that trade in a heartbeat.
"It was one of those good, deep sleeps; you know, the ones where you wake up and a stream of drool is steadily racing down your shirt? Yes, that kind of sleep." -Landry Fields
by Thelonious Dunk on Feb 10, 2012 9:08 AM EST reply actions
There’s no downside or risk to this trade if you’re the Knicks. Even if Lin proves these three games aren’t flukes and goes on to a great NBA career, you know for a stone cold fact that John Wall will do the same. You’re trading a keep your fingers crossed maybe for a sure thing.
Proud owner of over 20,000 comments. (most of them in the wrong place) Oh yeah, and Buster Posey
Right now, both are just potential...
We don’t know if Lin can do this consistently. We don’t know if Wall will be more complete with teammates. We do know that Wall got outplayed by Lin in the Summer League, and then after Wall got a year of full-time run, and Lin got a year of full-time bench, Lin outplayed him again.
Assuming both will get better, I’d stick with Lin right now based on Basketball IQ and proven ability to work in this system. Wall is a gifted player, but we don’t know if his sometimes poor decision making is based on lack of trust in the talent around him, or years of relying on him being the best player on his team. The last thing we need it to add more talent and then try to figure out how to make all of that talent work. Besides, with the money we save keeping Lin, we can add another solid role player down the line.
When I get in the game... win or lose... you know it's pretty much over.
by Hawthorne Nathaniel Wingo on Feb 10, 2012 9:31 AM EST reply actions
Are there 2 John Wall's on the Wizards???
The one I see is a one man fast break, but other than that, I don’t see much else.
I said no.
Because the Lin thing is a great story and as a fan, I like a great story as a subtext to some good, inspired basketball from guys that are fun to root for.
I like that a hell of a lot more than “Yippee! We traded for the biggest most awesomest famous star!!!!” That story is boring to me.
Would exchanging Lin for Wall get us closer to a championship. Maybe. Maybe even probably. But you just don’t know. And if you traded away this guy for Wall, and you never won that championship, it would be the most empty feeling imaginable.
So no. Lin’s my guy. I love rooting for him. I like John Wall, I think he’s a good player and an intelligent guy and I hope he gets a better team around him soon. But no thanks.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
For me...
“And if you traded away this guy for Wall, and you never won that championship, it would be the most empty feeling imaginable.”
That is a major reason to hold onto Lin. You never know if or when you’ll win a championship, so its important to have players you love to cheer for win or lose, and who make being a fan fun.
When I get in the game... win or lose... you know it's pretty much over.
by Hawthorne Nathaniel Wingo on Feb 10, 2012 10:13 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
And by the way, Wingo was my favorite player when I was a wee lad and the Knicks’ championship squad was fading.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
I didn't think you were that old...
No wonder you make so much sense. LOL. Wingo was absolutely one of my favorites. Frazier was #1, but Wingo was on tier 2 with Bradley and Jackson.
When I get in the game... win or lose... you know it's pretty much over.
by Hawthorne Nathaniel Wingo on Feb 10, 2012 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
yes!
because wall’s contract status is more favorable.
/// aighttho.com \\\/// twitter.com/aighttho \\\
huh?
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
this coming off season
lin is unrestricted!
wall has three years left, the third leaving him a restricted free agent heading into the 2015-16 season, so long as we make a qualifying offer beforehand.
thats the biggest reason why i would make this trade. of course, i am well aware that this trade is, as the great vizzini so cleverly states, “inconceivable!”.
/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \
THanks for coming over
And I respect your opinion but let me get this straight…
Nick Young has the shot selection of a drunk, Javale McGee doesn’t know whether he’s on defense or offense half the time, Andray Blatche is synonymous on Youtube with fail…
and JOHN WALL is the guy you want to move? Yeah bro. He’s definitely the Wizards’ problem.
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
i really dont get how 58% of this poll is saying no
i mean come on this is john wall were talking about here not ramon sessions or something i love lin as much as anyone but he’ll never have the talent wall does
Seriously?
More people voted NO than YES???? I love the Knicks, and I love Jeremy Lin (was at MSG for his first start against Utah); but come on!!
All things like salaray being equal — how could you NOT trade Lin for Wall straight up? It would be unthinkable to turn down a trade like that.
Wall has the misfortunate of playing with what may go down as the dumbest team in NBA history — but his talent is unmistakable and it’s hard to believe he wouldn’t be awesome playing for a good team.
if javale magee wasn't the DUMBEST center in the league
wall would have someone to run a devastating pick and roll with.
/// aighttho.com \\/// twitter.com/aighttho \\
Dumbest organism
Even Wilson’s mouth germs that got David Lee’s elbow all infecty are better at what they do
"It was one of those good, deep sleeps; you know, the ones where you wake up and a stream of drool is steadily racing down your shirt? Yes, that kind of sleep." -Landry Fields
by Thelonious Dunk on Feb 10, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
I'd say no
I think Wall is terrible. But that’s besides the point.
I’m curious. The folks who think Wall is a potential all star/MVP in this league, what is Kyrie Irving then? The next greatest player to ever lace them up? Surely Kyrie is better than Wall? No?
Kyrie is a better shooter
But Wall is a better passer. And he’s one of the fastest players in the league. Don’t really get why you hate Wall…
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
41% >>>>> 7% from 3 point range
Saying Kyrie is a better shooter is a serious understatement. Not to mention Kyrie is at 49% from the field while Wall is at about 40%.
Yes wall is a slightly better passer and rebounder. Wall is a decent player, but not for an overall #1 pick. He reminds me of Kyle Lowry.
I agree
I’m really not that into John Wall. he’s in a really bad situation with that horrible team of young dummies, but he doesn’t play like he has a brain. wall’s not what this teams wants and needs from our of a pg. I already think Lin is probably a better pick and roll player.
Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate
Bad Comparison
Your point is that wall is an awful shooter…so than you compare him to kyle lowry who is a pretty decent shooter? While I don’t think wall will come close to rose, I would still do this trade in a heartbeat.
Yes
But only because I am a rational human being.
No question I would.
lol @ the people who said no
Stainer of mountaintops.
by Chairman Meow on Feb 10, 2012 3:26 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
EXACTLY.
"Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
LET'S GO RANGERS!!!
Of course
and D.C.’s GM would be fired and working at a Taco Bell next week.
The bigger question is.... why is this poll almost deadlocked at 50/50????
After about 200 votes, there are actually a few more votes AGAINST trading Lin for John Wall.
Ok… what in the fuck is wrong with you guys???!!!!
Linsanity is one thing…. but if any of you guys actually think Jeremy Lin is a better guy to have than John Wall, you’ve got to start watching some actual basketball games.
Hey, here’s the next poll question…. Landry Fields for Dwyane Wade?
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Feb 10, 2012 6:48 PM EST reply actions
let's come back to this question in a year
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
I watched an actual basketball game
Knicks v. Lakers…I think I’m going to say no to Wall… :-/
by Pretty Tony on Feb 10, 2012 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
People are just feeling really good about Lin right now
It’s a great story…and judgement is being clouded! lol..
I voted yes for the trade and I’m loving Lin right now!!!.
You just got Tysoned!!!!!!
I'm absolutely digging Jeremy Lin too, hell yeah!
But yeah… clouded judgement, lol
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Feb 12, 2012 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
wall + rose = wallflower
i could care less and why would we even consider this conversation after 3 games
I’m more worried about how we look against a team with a good front court. So I’m gonna side with the LOL crowd in the hopes this kid is more than sufficient to bare the load and have a little money left over to spread the depth
after tonight, suggestion for title change
why would you trade Jeremy Lin for John Wall
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
I was trying to get Lin before this happened!
Now it’s too late!! Nooooooo, why don’t millionaires listen to me? :(
by Ball with Wall on Feb 10, 2012 10:58 PM EST up reply actions
jlin7 is playing great now everyone wants him
the nets ask should they trade d-will for j-lin7
by knicksgiantsmets on Feb 11, 2012 2:31 AM EST reply actions
I voted yes before he dropped 38 on the lake show
I change my vote to no
by SweatbandProliferation on Feb 11, 2012 2:48 AM EST reply actions
Sorry to ruin everything (69 comments now---> 70)
But even before the Lakers game I would have voted no, simply because I liked Lin more.
After the Lakers game….yeah. Jeremy Lin.
Thinking rationally, I wouldn't trade him. Here's why.
Basketball I.Q. Lin can run the offense and make people around him better. John Wall is a scoring pg. So many times a game, Lin would make the best play possible according to the situation on the floor. Even if his shot isn’t falling, he’ll find other ways to contribute, mainly putting guys in scoring position.
I believe his ability to run the offense will only get better, and its great now. He may not keep up the insane scoring pace, but I see his assists/getting guys in their favorite iso spots/hockey assists going up.
by Air Kwame on Feb 11, 2012 2:41 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Every time we have a cool storied player people want to trade him away for some "star."
No way. Maybe Wall will end up better than Lin, but this guy deserves better. It’s been hard to attach to a player around here for a while now. I would like our team to keep a certain core.
Linning and Winning
to me Lin looks like he is a very, very good pick and roll point guard
maybe one of the best in the league if he can keep it up.
Anxiously awaiting the day my username will be appropriate
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