Interesting stats from the Nets game
There was disagreement in the comments about the number of ISOs vs. PG-initiated plays, and other details, so I went back to the video. Results:
Isolation Plays:
Melo 9
Fields 4
Amare 3
Davis 1
Jeffries 1
TOTAL: 18 Knicks ISO plays by non-PGs, with Melo leading with 9.
Total number of Knicks sets: 75
Fraction of sets that were ISOs by non-PGs: 24%
Fraction of sets initiated by a PG (Lin or Davis), including quick passes to 3rd player: Q1: 11, Q2: 8, Q3: 12, Q4: 13. Total: 34, which = 45% of all Knicks sets.
And that last number is a problem. In their recent streak, the Knicks were having Lin initiate 75%-80% of their sets. Last night it was less than 50% for Lin and Davis combined.
This team already proved that they can't win with the old ways. So why go back to that? Now you have TWO point guards.... use them. Sure, if the right iso presents itself you take it. Or if there's a great pass to be made you make it. But all things being equal, LET THE POINT GUARDS INITIATE THE OFFENSE. That's their job... because they're better at it than anyone else.
The other thing that jumped out was HOW BAD the refs were. This was not just incompetence... some of those calls, and missed calls, were IMPOSSIBLE to screw up. I mean Lin was MUGGED in the lane several times, a guy CRASHED into a stationary Stat (doing everything right to draw a charge!)... and no calls. On the other end, if a Knick looked sideways at a Net, it was whistled. The game was pretty much 5 vs. 8.
Still... D'Antoni needs to get his act together, and all the players working off the same script. On offense, that means barring special cases/opportunities/sets, let the PGs initiate the offense.
On defense, it means getting Shump back ASAP, and getting Chandler to stop jumping on head fakes, and in general just stay in the game. The defense pretty much falls apart when both those guys aren't there. Especially Chandler.
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didn’t carmelo make 4 of of his 11 fg attempts?
I love the Nets forum too. I like how they focus on the 4th quarter calls in favor of the knicks when the refs were obviously favoring the nets for the first 3 quarters.
In fact i think the refs messed up. taking out chandler way too early.
Yes, Melo was 4/11
Remember that not every iso play ended in a field goal attempt, and of course each player, including Melo, also took part in non-iso plays.
The refs were CLEARLY forcing the game in one direction. It’s not often that their bias is so obvious, which is especially true when you see it a second time.
I'm sure the fluid point guard initiated sets will increase after they've had a few more games together.
Also, 9 isolations in a game is not really a bad number for a guy who pretty much has built his career off isolations.
I haven’t looked at the numbers, but I’m sure that other big league scorers like Kobe, Durant, D-Rose, etc. probably have more than 9 on most nights.
If Carmelo doesn’t miss several layups and get his shot “blocked” (Nets smacking his elbow) going to the hole, I think the story would be how well he fit in his 1st game back.
Also, Melo isn’t a pg, so his assists may not have been included in “pg initiated sets” but he had a few brilliant assists setting up teammates.
All I do is Lin Lin Lin no matter what...
by StarksMiddleFinger on Feb 21, 2012 8:51 AM EST reply actions
Agree
My main point is simply that giving anybody the ball to try to score in an iso, INSTEAD OF letting the PG initiate, is equal to the way this team played pre-Lin. And that was proven to be a losing strategy by the lousy record it produced. When Melo, the coaches, and just about everybody else talked about Melo “fitting into the flow of the new offense” this is exactly what they were talking about. To really fit in, Melo must let the PGs do the initiating, while he focuses on the finishing. That change clearly started to happen in the Nets game, but not surprisingly it’s not complete yet.
I think MDA and the players are going to come to this conclusion anyway… just hoping it’s sooner rather than later.
Iso plays for Carmelo are fine as long as he makes quick decisions and other guys make cuts to the basket
maybe in your “review” of the game you forgot to see how many times Carmelo passed the ball out of his iso plays. They didn’t go back to old ways. The refs sucked and Deron Williams had the game of his life. Its alright they’re going nowhere.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
Agree they didn't go back to their old ways
completely. I’m just pointing out that TO THE EXTENT they did, it’s something that needs to be improved.
Yeah, Melo had some very nice passes, a couple of which were out of isos. But the outcome of each iso was beside the point of the information I was gathering…. because there is no question that the old iso-centric ways don’t work, so there’s no need to test it again.
Did not see the game,
but I did see a play in the highlights where he was posting (back to the rim) and fouled the defender. Did Melo post up much in the game?
"It seemed that Brandon's financial manager had speculated in some kind of futures and lost everything...Mary could not rid her mind of the word "speculate." It meant to guess, in terms of money to gamble. How could a man gamble a college?"
From the short story, In the Garden of North American Martyrs--Tobias Wolff
GET TO THE RIM HEAT (and SKY)! ATTACK THE PAINT!
Mostly he took it right to them
…with mixed results.
Iso's
Often came when the initial pick and roll didn’t work. With 8 or 9 seconds left, Lin would pass the ball to Melo or Fields or Amar’e and let them go to work.
And Fields’ iso’s piss me off more than Melo’s at this point. Dude takes some bad shots.
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
Yes, often - but not always - the iso came after the breakdown of an earlier play
But it also happened quite a few times that the iso was the first play, in some cases with no passing at all. Fields did that a lot, btw…. and of his 4 isos, only one ended with a score.
Jeffries had an iso?
That concerns me way more than 9 Melo isos ever will
New York Knicks = Sleeping Giants
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Yeah, it was 2nd qtr
I believe he missed the layup. But hey, if a guy sees an opening, nothing wrong with taking it. But it should be a special case, not part of the game plan.
Chandler out of the game too early
He got FGM-A 4-5, FTM-A 6-6, 80% & 100% !! and he’s the best match with Lin in PnR. The Nets elaborately tricked him into making that foul.
Not worried....
Shumpert DNP, tendonitis in a knee, he would not have shut down Williams, but 3 -4 less 3 ptrs is realistic, even slowing down Marshon could have been game changers. The Knicks need Davis to spell Lin long enough, Lin had 3 steals in the 1st Qtr but then faded…..I see a triangle there but it will take another 5-6 games for it to take shape, it was just JR’s 2nd game, and Tyson has got to chill out some on fouls. Also Clyde commented on how Amare was aiming his shots…his shooting hand followed through flat instead of an arc, and Melo needs to shake off the rust. It will just take some time to fit it together…..Gaines gave Williams good rest time, they did not lose too much with Gaines in there, and that is what the Knicks need from Baron.
Also...
Is anyone else seeing this ? Alot of balls coming off Knick hands after rebounds and some passes. Turnovers and I dont think it’s sloppy play….maybe timing is off, but if they can cut that down, it could be a 4-6 point swing, and also free throw shooting must improve.
Those two right there are almost a 10 point swing in the score.
I think a lot of the iso's came when the offense as pretty stagant
And melo passed out a lot. A few iso’s is fine as long as they pick the right time to do it.
I actually thought Melo played well within the system but was rusty. He said he wants to play within the system and allow Lin to do things like he has the last 2 weeks, and I believe he is for real now. He sounded sincere and it showed yesterday. If I recall correctly, before he got injured in that Utah game, they were running and gunning for the first five or six minutes that he played. they quickly build a 12-5 lead with his fast break lob pass to Tyson. It was looking promising and I have been revived from the dead and actually feel optimistic again. This team looks great on paper, JR Smith will be a great help, and this team is super deep now. I think having that little break during and after all star weekend will help us a lot since they can focus on what they wanna run and get practice.
Now that Baron is healthier, they can actually practice five on five. I really thought Melo played nicely last night and the misses were the kind he normally makes. I am actually more concerned with Amare and that 100 million dollar contract. I am afraid to say this, and I am kicking myself in the knee as I type this, but I am worried that he might be washed up and his better days are behind him. However,k if he could knock that jumper down the way he was last year, it would be helpful. He doesn’t have to dominate every game or average 25 ppg but if he can still knock down that jumper on consistent basis and have a little more explosion, then we be okay. I am just worried about that more than Melo or anything else.

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