Heat 102, Knicks 88: "Heat are just playing championship level defense."
by Seth on Feb 23, 2012 10:56 PM EST
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Well, after all the hype that got built up heading into that game, it was a bit of a letdown to see the Knicks pretty handily defeated by the Heat. It probably shouldn't have been, though. As, uh, hardgay said in the game thread, the Heat played some of the best defense you, I, and Jeremy Lin have ever seen tonight. They jammed a rod into the gears of New York's pick-and-roll, stretching to force Lin into uncomfortable spots, then snapping furiously back into position to cut off passing lanes and stop inside attempts. It was a sight to behold and, I'd imagine, a bitch to oppose. New York shot just 39 percent and turned the ball over fifteen times in the first half, including six apiece for Lin and Amar'e Stoudemire. That's not recommended. Throughout that first half, though, New York managed to overcome and keep it close-- even taking the lead in the second quarter-- by getting offensive rebounds and hitting their threes (praise be to Steve Novak).
New York's defense was also key to their keeping it close in the first half, but they did benefit somewhat from inside misses and poor perimeter shooting by the Heat. In the second half, that ended. New York still managed to force turnovers (and took much better care of the ball themselves), but Miami, even in the face of decent hand-up defense, began to hit jumpers and pushed their lead to double digits. The Knicks, to their credit, never let the game get waaaay out of hand, but there wasn't much doubt left by the fourth quarter. The Heat are a better team than the Knicks right now, which really shouldn't cause too much shock and dismay.
Take the jump for a bit more.
- The Heat shut down Jeremy Lin. Completely handcuffed him. Even when they didn't have him in their grasp, the sheer threat they posed drove to Lin make some decisions we're not used to seeing from him. To begin with, Mario Chalmers and Norris Cole each attacked his right hand and scuttled around vigorously to nag his dribbles. When Tyson Chandler came to set a pick and scrape the opposing guard off Lin, Joel Anthony went commando, poaching Lin's dribble for a moment, then rocketing into the passing lane or, if the lane was already established, sliding beneath the roller or darting toward the basket to cut off the inside shot attempt (and yes, he did all this without wearing underpants). Lin still tried to attack in the first half, which is most of the reason he had so many turnovers. As the game progressed, though, he got understandably tentative. He picked up his dribble at the slightest bit of pressure and, when driving, often looked to attempt tough shots instead of testing those passing lanes that had previously been barricaded. To be fair to Jeremy, the 1-11 was partially composed of unfriendly rims on sharp attempts. Others, of course, were just bad looks. The point is, the Heat defended Lin near-perfectly. Their guards clung to him like gnats and their bigs mixed things up-- hounding him, poaching his lanes, and stuffing his teammates at the rim.
- Lin's back-up, Baron Davis, faced somewhat diminished pressure, but with the benefit of strength and experience, kept his dribble a bit better and got inside. But still, he was met at the rim and forced to make tough passes and attempt tough shots. He went 0-7 and did not score. The Heat are good at defense.
- The only Knick to get much going against that defense was Carmelo Anthony, and even he struggled. Melo still hadn't really found his jumper in his third game back from injury, but had some success just isolating and putting the ball on the floor when the pick-and-roll was stuck. He finished some, drew some contact, and hung around for second opportunities on others. Still, though, just 7-20 for 19 points.
- Amar'e Stoudemire was quiet, which was a shame, because he actually showed a tiny bit of life on offense. After just kind of coughing up the ball in traffic a few times, Amar'e canned himself a jumper, finished a little righty hook in the paint, and blew by Chris Bosh for a baseline dunk (which made me unreasonably happy). He still struggled, though, and the Heat closed him off quite nicely (just seven attempts!). Defensively, Amar'e didn't have to work too much, but I was happy to see him pick a couple of lazy passes.
- Tyson Chandler didn't really get to be a factor on offense (a decent chunk of his 4-7 shooting came in the late fourth) because of the stuff mentioned in the Lin bullet point and he had quite a bit of trouble against Chris Bosh's lefty/outside attack.
- Landry Fields was quiet, didn't get totally humiliated by Dwyane Wade, and hit his shots.
- J.R. Smith played some pretty terrific defense on LeBron James in the first half (not so much on Wade in the second half) and was one of the few Knicks to successfully create shots for himself. Those shots were hanging, twisting floaters in the lane, but he got a few of 'em to drop.
- Steve Novak broke his every-other-game trend and hit four of five three-pointers. When the Knicks momentarily looked like they had a shot of winning the game, it was in the second quarter when Novak caught fire from downtown.
- Jared Jeffries made some nice extra passes and second efforts on offense (and hit a jumper!), and I don't specifically remember him getting burned on defense, so there's that.
- If there's one thing I don't like about the Knicks being a decent team, it's having to watch them on national TV. I do not like it. Not one bit.
And that's all the Knicks. The Heat are really, really good, y'all, and you can't really compete with them if you make a lot of mistakes. The Knicks couldn't hold on to the ball when the Heat were cold in the first half, then couldn't stop Miami's jumpers and second attempts when they'd finally got the turnovers controlled in the second half. It was disappointing, but not exactly a surprise from a team in New York's situation facing a team as dominant as the Heat are. The Knicks will face the Heat again in April, and they'll have plenty of time between now and then to build a crisper, more adaptable pick-and-roll and get healthy, comfortable, and confident on both ends of the floor. For now...All-Star Break!
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Lin will learn from this.
He’ll be ready for what comes his way next time we meet. Turnovers were the difference, and we received no help from the refs. The no call and technicals and chandler/d’antoni were atrocious.
Jets/Yankees/Knicks
Let's Make sure we play like the f***in NEW YORK JETS
and not some f***in slapd**k team!
by jets4life24 on Feb 23, 2012 11:06 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Give Baron time
He just playing after almost a year off.
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
yea, he still has some rust on him.
I suggest wd-40
sreh ladien e' ta janjia
by Lord Smackington on Feb 24, 2012 8:55 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
i actually think
despite not scoring, that BD played the better PG last night and should have gotten more 2nd half burn.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
+1
But also glad Lin played as much as he did. He needs to be in better game shape to run the offense the way MDA wants him to and good to get some run against their elite D.
In Donnie we trust.
by $100M Contract on Feb 24, 2012 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
i get what mike d was doing
but lin has been playing a TON of min and last night BD coulda really came though with some more time… if he coulda pulled out a win for us it woulda really helped out the confidence of our 2nd unit.
I think it was obvious early on that Lin was Gassed and overmatched.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
That was VERY obvious. Bdiddy would have made a better option but MDA wanted to baptize Jeremy Lin by fire(or Heat) as he should have. Last night wasn't game 1 of the conference finals. It was a February regular season game between..
a fatigued 7th seed thats 3 games old vs. a less fatigued top seed thats 140 games old. I think the most recent fanpost before last night’s game accurately captures the big picture.
Agree with you both, but I'm ok with D'Antoni DWMDAD
He believes in Lin. I wonder how much run he gave Nash early on in his tenure with the Suns. The dude develops PG’s, it’s just what he does. I still feel good about us against the Heat / Bulls/ C’s in the playoffs and I look forward to a matchup with all of them.
In Donnie we trust.
by $100M Contract on Feb 24, 2012 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
I was just going to say that as well.
He looked much more comfortable dealing with the trapping coming from the Heat.
I thought the Earl Baron backcourt was significantly more effective than the…. the…. Bookworm Backcourt? No…. the Lindry Backcourt. No…. the… the… damn I have have nothing nicknamically for Lin & Landry!! Couch Court? Hell no. Ugh.
I would have to believe that Baron Davis will do a lot to help Jeremy Lin grow. I think he is going to dig his backup role. Same goes for Earl. My opinuion of his game is quickly changing. He knows where to be and how to stop opposing players as well as create on offense.
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Feb 24, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
I liked it when Steve Novak Was 4/4 with 12 points.
That was neat.
by nocookiesforme on Feb 23, 2012 11:06 PM EST reply actions
as much as I like mike D
he should have kept Novak out there more in the 2nd half.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
by gbaked on Feb 24, 2012 10:28 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Good analysis
The defense was great. No doubt about that. I think the knicks should have gone to STAT a bit more and tried a smaller lineup for a while with Lin and Davis together. Davis handle and Lin create..just a thought. JR and Melo were only ones in attack mode..and Fields in first half.
by skyballer on Feb 23, 2012 11:07 PM EST via Android app reply actions
it's not that Lin couldn't handle the ball
it’s that it’s impsoibele to get out of a hard trap without outside help. they were also guarding the passing lanes as well. I’ve never seen it done so crisp.
what we needed was 90s style nBA where 2 people escort the ball up the court. You got to trust Lin to not turn the ball over when he drives in. You can’t just remove that cuz you’re too afraid.
by wwert on Feb 23, 2012 11:58 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
"what we needed was 90s style nBA where 2 people escort the ball up the court"
I think that you might have something there. From the starting lineup, the two can be Lin and Melo.
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
Amare also set up an excellent charge
…which was not called because they called a foul on Chandler a moment before impact. But it was well done anyway. He also blocked a shot.
by JR99 on Feb 23, 2012 11:12 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Yeah that was good on Amar'e's part.
However, I couldn;t help but notice how he looked seriously lost when pick and rolls came through. There were at least a few times when he went to trap the ball and never even looked back at the guy he was guarding. Each time the ball came back for an easy open bucket.
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Feb 24, 2012 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
Kinda wish Baron was a little more game ready tonight.
He’s obviously still not himself yet, but it was also obvious that that shit that they pulled on Lin wouldn’t have went over on Baron.
There was also a stretch early in the 4th where MDA went with a line-up of Baron, JR, Landry, Novak and Jeffries. It was just… yuck. Stat was well rested and it seemed like the perfect time to get him in there instead of Jeffries, who kept bungling possessions.
I don’t know… I’m dying to see Stat spin with Baron for extended minutes. I feel like they’d have some chemistry. Its frustrating watching him and Lin just not clicking at all.
Yeah, that lineup you pointed out was not getting it done at all
And I also would have liked to have seen STAT out there in place of Jeffries.
i agree 100% what you said. about Baron
I like what I see from him. I see people blasting him. Why? The is playing for the first time in nine months.
Also, I see the double standard Lebron gets when compare to Melo. Not even talking about the non calls. Talking how Miller and Marv blasted Melo for going one on one early in the shot clock, but when Lebron took an early one on one shot, Marv said what a good move/shot by Lebron. Was disappointed Hubie Brown wasn’t doing the game. I love listening to him. Is he an TNT or ESPN analyst?
by BIG OH!!!!! on Feb 24, 2012 5:20 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
miller is torture to my ears
his voice makes me want to strangle animals for some reason….bears, goats,cats…mr nobu my longtime cat companion understands as well;he has the urge to choke kittens when hearing miller’s voice. It’s why we’re so compatible.
sreh ladien e' ta janjia
by Lord Smackington on Feb 24, 2012 9:47 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
I agree
Theres something about this team being on national TV that just doesnt sit well with me, the atrocious suit quota is filled by craig sager but the lack of rhyming really hits home
Although
Calling the 3rd quarter of a basketball game the third “period” is a small reason why i cannot stand his existence , it is still def a reason
Doesn't feel like home if I don't hear Clyde
or the MSG theme song DA-DA-DA-ADADAD-DADADADAAAAAAAA
posi..tive ....thoughts..?
@krishhhayyy
by gymtanlandry on Feb 24, 2012 2:41 AM EST up reply actions
im cool with it if we win
I will go to my grave believing that if the Knicks had picked up Earl Barron before the 2011 Playoffs, we would not have been swept by the Celtics.
by east_harlem on Feb 23, 2012 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
Lol he says he forgave spike and most NYers
I wasn’t alive to watch him torture us, but I can’t stand the look of reggie
Jets/Yankees/Knicks
Let's Make sure we play like the f***in NEW YORK JETS
and not some f***in slapd**k team!
by jets4life24 on Feb 24, 2012 12:18 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Fortunately
Spike lee does not represent most NYers as the hatred still burns pretty hot for one of the ugliest players the NBA has ever seen
i could give a rats ass if he forgives NYers
I still hate him, and will never listen to him announce.
I watched last night at a bar and if he is doing a game I am watching at home I will mute his sorry ass and either play the radio or just listen to music and watch the game.
F that guy… I wont even be friends with people with the last name miller.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
I was super pissed this wasn't on MSG
knew I was gonna miss the game & was preparing for an all night replay session….that didn’t work out well, much like this game.
sreh ladien e' ta janjia
by Lord Smackington on Feb 24, 2012 9:52 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
10 point 3rd quarter was the difference in the game.
by 9th Wonder Buckshot on Feb 23, 2012 11:16 PM EST reply actions
should i say they outscored us by 10 in the 3rd quarter that was the difference in the game...
by 9th Wonder Buckshot on Feb 23, 2012 11:16 PM EST up reply actions
considering the consensus seems to be that we played like shit
and the 3rd qtr ten point differential seems to be where we lost it, I’d say the team is in the right direction. We put up a fight despite playing like crap and once this team gets in sync, when melo and stat get going like I know they can…we’re gonna be dangerous…a ten point differential won’t be shit.
sreh ladien e' ta janjia
by Lord Smackington on Feb 24, 2012 10:21 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
never up this early
I will go to my grave believing that if the Knicks had picked up Earl Barron before the 2011 Playoffs, we would not have been swept by the Celtics.
by east_harlem on Feb 23, 2012 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
On a night like last night
when we’re clicking and Lin can get penetration in the paint, we should embrace D’Antoni’s running style and not worry about anyone getting the requisite touches. Feed the hot hand, move the ball, and get out in transition.
On a night like tonight, though, we’re going to need to feature Melo, if only because he can force the shifts in the defense that Lin isn’t able to. It’s one of the situations where iso-centric ball can work in our favor. Playing Melo with JR and Novak is a way to create open looks for everyone on the floor because Melo simply commands a help defender whereas Lin can be effectively be guarded straight up by either Chalmers, Wade or Bron. This strategy relies on Melo to make the right play out of his isos, but if he does, this IMO is our best option against elite defensive teams that will force us out of our comfort zone. (Mia, Chi, Bos 2 years ago, etc.)
"But when he saw it, he just put his hands up and they couldn’t give it to him. It just fell to the ground, I-I don’t, you know … So, that showed me he had great experience..." - Jeff Van Gundy
by Anthony Bonner's Subpoena on Feb 23, 2012 11:24 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
I AGREE!
effective iso play from Melo, consistent Novak beyond the arc would have been a great help for Lin to create better plays.
by chellepretty on Feb 23, 2012 11:29 PM EST up reply actions
+1
I will go to my grave believing that if the Knicks had picked up Earl Barron before the 2011 Playoffs, we would not have been swept by the Celtics.
by east_harlem on Feb 23, 2012 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
fuck phil jackson! all hail A.B.S.!
sreh ladien e' ta janjia
by Lord Smackington on Feb 24, 2012 10:27 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
If There Was Ever A Game We Needed Some Melo Iso's
It was defintely last nite. MDA has to know this and find ways to install this into the offense on nights that Shao-Lin can’t get it done. Melo has the ability to run the offense in short spurts. Rough third quarter killed us, but I do like the improvements on D.
And they have to feed STAT more, there are to many times he goes unfed in the post/paint. The lineup they had last nite in the third with Baron, JR, Landry, Novak, Jeffries, should have included Amare instead of JJ, might have helped leading into the fourth.
BK ALL DAY, ALL DAY BK!!!!
this is foolish.
The whole point of the Heats defense is that they are so quick on the double team. The double team in concert with a 3rd man guarding the passing lane. Not to mention the full court press on Lin. That’s 2 walls to pass through before you can even THINK of making any iso plays. People are still not buying into the system. Granted, Lin isn’t Nash. Nash would have out ran the full court press. But Lin also drives into the paint with better control than nash just due to size.
So what you need to revert to the old Knicks style of isolation playing. Especially against a quick Heats team that has the best hard trapping ability i’ve ever seen. You break their defense systematically while keeping out offense.
You escort Lin with a pick and roll(Chandler did it but he’s a center. Carmelo should have done it). That tires Chalmer out.
You let Lin drive in every time. You forget about the offensive rebounds and guard against the fast breaks. You take amare out of this game entirely and go with a faster set around Chandler. We lower the turnovers, you allow Lin to attack the basket, weaken their post defense by hopefully drawing some fouls while taking a high percentage shot. That’s what wins our Knicks games. If they collapse into the paint to take out Lin—the nature of that play guards against the fast break. Turnovers like those are just missed field goals. If Tyson chandler learns how to post up a bit, we can use the 3 second rule to create iso plays, which takes away all that Heat double team advantage.
I admit I was surprised
That Lin didn’t take their defensive scheme and stuff it back in their face. But I guess even he is human after all!
Get The Frickin' Rebound
Honestly
This dudes life has been as overwhelming and out of control of any athlete that i can think of, i too expected him to come out in the second half and turn his game around but when u got superstars all committed and working together defensively you will always be tough to beat
I think he got rattled by some of the early TOs
with Chalmers et al just straight knocking his dribble out of his hands. He is usually good at turning aggressive D on its head, but he just seemed to have lost confidence in his basic skills. He’ll be ready next time though.
He will def bounce back
Hes gotta be as relieved as anyone to be getting this shortened break, damn you rising stars
Lin's confidence was shot after the early TO's
and it effected him the whole game. Kind of similar to what Isaiah Thomas did to him in Sacromento game in January.
I am a little disappointed that Chalmers and Norris were able to rattle him in single coverage. I thought it would take LBJ or Wade to cause Lin some trouble…
yea I thought they would have to put LeBron on him too
credit Chalmers and Norris tho, they played great D
You just got Tysoned!!!!!!
TRADE HIM NOW!!!
quickly before he loses value.
sreh ladien e' ta janjia
by Lord Smackington on Feb 24, 2012 10:28 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Remember.
Miami had an off day last night, and the knicks arrived in south beach early in the morning. Lin will certainly be ready for them next time around.
Jets/Yankees/Knicks
Let's Make sure we play like the f***in NEW YORK JETS
and not some f***in slapd**k team!
by jets4life24 on Feb 24, 2012 12:21 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
We lost this game because Jeremy Lin had a terrible 2nd Quarter...idk what happened to him but we lost the lead in that quarter and he lost the ball like crazy
I will go to my grave believing that if the Knicks had picked up Earl Barron before the 2011 Playoffs, we would not have been swept by the Celtics.
It's not all his fault, but that's when the game got away from us...I think D'antoni should've left Baron Davis in not bring him to save the day in the 3rd
I will go to my grave believing that if the Knicks had picked up Earl Barron before the 2011 Playoffs, we would not have been swept by the Celtics.
by east_harlem on Feb 23, 2012 11:37 PM EST up reply actions
Dantoni
left him in with a purpose, he wanted Lin to be in there and learn from what Miami was throwing at him. He was also showing him that hes not on a short leash and thats he’s our 1st choice PG
we might have lost the battle but Dantoni is preparing Lin for the war
by cropsey on Feb 24, 2012 12:17 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Yeah, that is what MD was saying before the most part game for the m
“You know they’re going to try to jump all over you and double-team you almost at every place and be quick as heck,” D’Antoni said. “I’m curious to see how Jeremy will adjust to it.”
D’Antoni said he won’t have any advice for Lin on potentially facing James.
“He’ll find out himself. He might as well experience it,” D’Antoni said. “That’s good; it’s maximum respect if it happens. Jeremy will handle it, and hopefully the Knicks will handle it.”
"It seemed that Brandon's financial manager had speculated in some kind of futures and lost everything...Mary could not rid her mind of the word "speculate." It meant to guess, in terms of money to gamble. How could a man gamble a college?"
From the short story, In the Garden of North American Martyrs--Tobias Wolff
GET TO THE RIM HEAT (and SKY)! ATTACK THE PAINT!
by mjtig on Feb 24, 2012 12:37 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
*saying before the game for the most part..
"It seemed that Brandon's financial manager had speculated in some kind of futures and lost everything...Mary could not rid her mind of the word "speculate." It meant to guess, in terms of money to gamble. How could a man gamble a college?"
From the short story, In the Garden of North American Martyrs--Tobias Wolff
GET TO THE RIM HEAT (and SKY)! ATTACK THE PAINT!
by mjtig on Feb 24, 2012 12:38 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
That to me is the takeaway
it pisses me off as a fan sometimes, as I wanted a win…
but you generally learn more from losses then wins, and that was a harsh lesson for Lin last night.
But i personally think BD should have gotten more spin. We need him good to go too and the team looked better last night with him out there.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
I can dig that
I think ur on the money with that one.
sreh ladien e' ta janjia
by Lord Smackington on Feb 24, 2012 10:30 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Rebounding
I also remember several possesions when were down by single digits and carelessly gave up offensive rebounds just because of lack of fundamentals, could be due to being tired but giving out 2nd chances has never went well for us
Early on we were out offensive rebounding them like crazy.
I think we had 8 (or maybe 11?) O boards to their 1.
lol its florida
half the population is waiting for their funeral
Yea there was a constant black triangle of Heat unis under the rim...somebody gotta break up that party
I will go to my grave believing that if the Knicks had picked up Earl Barron before the 2011 Playoffs, we would not have been swept by the Celtics.
Defense
Hard to knock amazing defense. Lin will turn it around.
http://www.allinforjlin.com/
What if Lin loses his mojo and leaves the game to become a preacher Mason Metha style
I will go to my grave believing that if the Knicks had picked up Earl Barron before the 2011 Playoffs, we would not have been swept by the Celtics.
*Betha
I will go to my grave believing that if the Knicks had picked up Earl Barron before the 2011 Playoffs, we would not have been swept by the Celtics.
by east_harlem on Feb 23, 2012 11:43 PM EST up reply actions
Lin will not lose his mojo
he is for real. He will continue to improve. My biggest concern is the attention he gets. The demands must be unimaginable. Somehow he and the Knicks are going to have to find a way to lock things out and keep him focused. He is in uncharted waters. Nothing like this has ever happened before. Amazing.
Fire D'Umbphoney...not wise at the moment
JJ on bosh?
I dont think jeffries could have done any worse on bosh than TC did
JJ was good on LeBron
he frustrated him down low on a couple of occasions. I like that matchup.
Fire D'Umbphoney...not wise at the moment
Interestingly
The terrible hawks team we beat yesterday just beat the Magics. So heat game aside, this team actually has been playing good teams well.
was about to point that out...
if LAL beat OKC…that would be another topic to discuss, lol
by chellepretty on Feb 23, 2012 11:57 PM EST up reply actions
We've seen their defense on Lin
I think this team can take them in a series. We have better depth and next time Lin won’t be as flustered by the defense and Melo hopefully will have his stroke back
Anybody else play 2k revenge games after losses? Knicks Heat on Xbox live as we speak
I will go to my grave believing that if the Knicks had picked up Earl Barron before the 2011 Playoffs, we would not have been swept by the Celtics.
I do.
Bout to fire up the PS3 when I get home.
by Dirtybirdz04 on Feb 24, 2012 12:14 AM EST up reply actions
their D is so good
Seth you’re very on point.. i hate national TV too, buh..
Plus, I heard this crazy rumor
that Lin is still basically a rookie who started at mid-season.
by twincitiesknick on Feb 24, 2012 12:07 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Thats a great point
That unfortunately gets swept nder the rug when u take the potential laughing stock of the nba and turn them into a potential playoff team
TNT sucks...
Is it me or do they have three times as many commercials as MSG?
We played good. The Heat played amazing defense and shut down Lin. Melo is still a little rusty. Fields had another disappearing act. JR and Novak tried to save us but we came up short. Maybe next time.
by robk on Feb 24, 2012 12:09 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I think all of those guys on TNT are clowns.
When lebron had that monster dunk, marv albert sounded constipated.
Jets/Yankees/Knicks
Let's Make sure we play like the f***in NEW YORK JETS
and not some f***in slapd**k team!
by jets4life24 on Feb 24, 2012 12:24 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
shaq is turrible
for some reason I thought he’d be perfect though.
sreh ladien e' ta janjia
by Lord Smackington on Feb 24, 2012 10:34 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
I agree
I said before the game they needed a monster game from Melo.. I mean like shooting 18-25 from the floor or something. That changes the complexion of the game a lot.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
Yeah. I was really hoping this would be the game...
Where Melo would go off for 40 Or so and we’d make a statement that we were back to being a force. Didn’t happen but we are still headed in the right direction.
by robk on Feb 24, 2012 6:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah. I was really hoping this would be the game...
Where Melo would go off for 40 Or so and we’d make a statement that we were back to being a force. Didn’t happen but we are still headed in the right direction.
by robk on Feb 24, 2012 6:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I agree normally.
However, and I can’t believe I’m actually typing this but Reggie Miller actually had a number of good assessments about the Knicks and how they were playing. He was very complimentary and on point.
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Feb 24, 2012 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
Couldn't watch the game tonight
so thank god for the Seth recaps. I had a feeling that the Knicks would be run off the court by the Heat but I wasn’t expecting Lin to be shut down like that. If there was a plus side to this game, it’s that the Lin hype will die down a little because of a bad game to let the kid focus strictly on basketball for a while, but I doubt it.
Can’t wait until Shump is back so there’s some perimeter D, but I wonder whose minutes he’ll take (Landry would be my guess) & where Jorts fits into the rotation. It’s nice being this deep, but trying to figure out the right lineups will be a big test for D’antoni & I think will be a key to whether this team can be successful this season.
The schedule right after the all star break is really rough. Celtics, Mavs, & the Spurs all away from MSG then the Sixers & a home & home with the Pacers after that. I think this will be when we see if the Knicks have what it takes to make real noise in the league.
This is the best I’ve felt about the Knicks in forever & I have real confidence that this team will really get it together in the 2nd half of the season. But after all the horrible Knick basketball over the years, I still fear my optimism (I’m one of the assholes who thought getting Marbury was a good idea) will be paid back with spirit crushing defeat (thanks to Isiah Thomas & Jim Dolan’s years of fucking with this team for making me into this horrible mess that can’t really believe in a good thing). The last two weeks have been as awesome as any Knick fan could hope for after 10 years of downright awfulness (the first half of last season being the exception for being fun to watch) & I really want to see this team be good again.
by DontShootToneyNOOO on Feb 24, 2012 12:27 AM EST reply actions
Folks...
…there is a lot of good news buried in this loss. The Knicks are going to be good. This 1 game in 9 days stretch—as boring as it’s going to be for us diehard losers—is a crazy blessing. (You know, without the God implications.) They turned the ball over like nuts, Lin was awful for the first time ever (in no other game has he had such terrible stats), the Heat are the best team in the league and were focused on deflating “linsanity”, Carmelo is still not hitting that mid range jumper (it will come, unless the last 8 years of his career were a mirage), and still there was a moment in the fourth where we thought they might come back. (Admit it diehards.)
There is simply a different energy with this team now. It’s annoying they didn’t win more “easy” games early (Suns, Bucks, Bobcats, Raptors at home) or even recently (Nets and Hornets at home) so that their record was a little more representative and conducive to the upcoming schedule brutality. But they are loaded at every position, and, while I don’t think they beat the Heat in the playoffs this year, a case can be made that they will be the most dangerous team (in the east) to the Heat’s inevitable coronation. (A weak case, but still.) Just get to the 6 seed should be the mantra of the second half.
This team is good! Carmelo is going to be fine, Amar’e was actually exciting tonight (minus the first quarter butterfingers) and they are going to be scary good on some nights. They are not ready for the Heat, may not be until next year. But this is fun, folks.
The Knicks were terrible tonight and were a bounce or two (after they got it to 8 in the 4th, there were a couple of bounces that didn’t go our way but could have changed the game) from scaring the Heat in a REAL (not a 43 3-point attempt game without Melo and Amar’e) game in which the Heat were crazily engaged.
Try to enjoy the ride everyone. See you next week.
PS: After all this, does anyone think they’re not losing to Cavs next Wednesday night? The defeatist Knicks fan in me rise again.
Jared Jeffries Shot Tracker
Jeffries was 2/2 tonight for 4 points.
Fun Fact: Jeffries has now shot 100% from the field 4 times in Miami. His teams are 0-4 in those games.
Home of the Jared Jeffries Shot Tracker
by bluecheese999 on Feb 24, 2012 1:07 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Stat
Looks nothing like the dominent player he was last season with the Knicks and before that with the Suns. This is unfortunate as we really, really, REALLY need him to be a force if we are going to have any success in the second half and in the playoffs
by Guess Who's Back? on Feb 24, 2012 1:15 AM EST reply actions
he had ZERO shot attempts in the 4th quarter...
remember when he lead the league in 4th quarter points last year? I can’t blame STAT for not seeing the rock in the 2nd half…
by 9th Wonder Buckshot on Feb 24, 2012 1:30 AM EST up reply actions
He sure looked good in that 1st half
When he was dunking on Bosh, swatting Wade, etc..then actually got 1 f$&*^n shot attempt in entire 2nd half..to quote Reggie Miller (which I normally would HATE to do)-“Amare has really CARRIED NY so far tonight, it’s time for Melo & Lin to join him”..so disappointed that Amare was on his way to a BIG game that was stopped by his own coach and not the Heat.
by jma67 on Feb 24, 2012 2:42 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I was wondering about that
Anyone else have perspective on why Amar’e didn’t take any shots in the second half?
Get The Frickin' Rebound
i think this team is still going thru changes and still feeling each other out
stat to me at least, is learning to play with these guys as well as going thru his own stuff. When we were losing, I stated we needed time, we had time and we started playing better. I still think eve with the wins that this team is still in development as far as chemistry and if we let them all play thru it (preferably without a trade threat after every loss) then we will be rewarded.
sreh ladien e' ta janjia
by Lord Smackington on Feb 24, 2012 10:42 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
This game to me is a huge positive in the sense
we accept what we saw in the first half as a team that needs time to gel and practice together , that being said considering it was Lin’s 12th start against the best d in the league we had 15 turnovers and we down only 4 at half in which if the refs weren’t helping out with no calls and blocked shots that could clearly be goaltending we should have been winning
I say we just toss out the second half of that game, i mean they just looked gassed and out of it, alot of it because of the back to back and no rest trust me i see alot of positives and im glad Lin got to play the heat now early in the season and get this bad game out because next time hell be ready for them and perform much better and we know it
If im the heat im not happy about this win, they let us stay in the this game all the way till the beginning middle of the 4th and we matched them and they are clearly the better more cohesive team. Trust me when we get out team rolling and the chemistry becomes solid we can ball with the heat no doubt in my mind about it
i agree
Melo didn’t have his shot like he usually does and we know he is coming off injury. Barron just coming from a back injury and we can already see how beautiful it will be when he is in better condition. Having a veteran like that will help and the team will get healthy and have time to gel. This break will help a lot and I can’t wait to see.
I don't know that the Heat aren't happy
they shut down the PG play and even though Baron is just coming back, I’m not sure a healthly Baron would have done that much better. They played great defensively…..forced us into 19 TO’s and had 10 blocked shots, 10 blocked shots!! and I’m not sure any of them except for one questionable, was goaltending. They didnt have to expend LeBron on Lin, Chalmers and Norris handled him. Neither of the Heat big 3 was out their comfort zone, they all had 20+…All the while they were called for more fouls and we took more FT’s….and they were up by double digits most of the 4th and won by double digits. On top of that, they won 8 straight. How are they NOT happy with this win??
You just got Tysoned!!!!!!
I think the next time we play them it will be a different story. Miami hasn’t been injured nor have they needed time to gel. They been together for a while now and we just getting started. I have been noticing this crazy defense by Miami for a while now but I say there has to be a hole somewhere. There is no way they can play like this and do everything perfect. there has to be something there or some kind of weakness which we Knicks have to figure out. Dallas was playing hardcore defense against Lin also but he survived. I think his struggles were partially a combination of things, being tired, a little nervous and playing in their arena. Melo also didn’t have his shot the way he normally does.
I am happy about this break and this will help the team focus, get healthy and shake off the rust. Watching tapes will help and I imagine Lin will see what they were doing to him and how he can improve. This was his first time playing the Heat and I am confident he will improve next time, and especially playing in NY. The last two times we played them, the scenario was in their favor. They been playing at home, rested and have been playing together longer. No doubt Miami is the best defensive team but I believe we will break through their walls and find that weakness. Something has to give and the Knicks have to take advantage of that.
Most didn’t expect us to win but I somehow believes we could escape with a win. If we lost this game knowing we have had injured players and are just now starting to come together, I feel good about or chances. Let’s see how things go after the break and come April.
So are we gonna talk about how Baron is now 1/12 for 4 points in 3 games
or just ignore it, assume it’s rust, and move on?
Home of the Jared Jeffries Shot Tracker
Diddy
Has looked awful in the 3 games he’s played in, no question. But he’s been injured almost the entire season and hopefully will get rid of the rust after the all-star break
by Guess Who's Back? on Feb 24, 2012 2:50 AM EST up reply actions
I should add that i hate seing knicks on TNT
I prefer espn, abc and msg. Something wrong with TNT and it seems as if we lose every time we are televised by them.
Most folks here
….seem to think this wasn’t such a bad loss, given the circumstances, and I agree. There is, tho, an important positive to take away, and that’s the VIDEO. You can’t learn much from romps like the Hawks game. But if you are clever and focused — like Lin and (presumably) some of the coaching staff — there is a LOT to learn from this Heat game. Like what to do and what not to do when faced with that kind of pressure, on both sides of the court. That video alone is worth the price of the loss.
Yeah, it took the Heat 1.5 years to get this good. But it took the Celtics less than 1 season (08). It can be done. And this team has such tremendous potential that I wouldn’t count them out of any race, including this year’s.
by JR99 on Feb 24, 2012 2:37 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
that's true
Boston was horrible before the big 3 got together and they changed overnight. we can do that as well. our problem has been not having a training camp, preseason and injuries. I think we can overcome that and surprise the league come playoff time. I definitely wouldn’t be surprised if this team dominated in the playoffs. anything can happen in a shortened a season and I am not counting them out.
I'm stuck on these damn T's
Can someone credible can just come out and revisit every single Chandler technical, be straight about it, and confirm my feeling that this last one including 50% of the others are HORSESHIT
posi..tive ....thoughts..?
@krishhhayyy
My favorite horseshit technical of his came early on in the season.
Chandler got T’ed up when sitting on the bench and cheering his team or possibly being upset about a non call. I forget which game this was but I knew right there that the refs would still be focused on screwing us this year. I mean if they’re gonna start calling out players reactions on the bench, then we’re fucked.
This one was horseshit, buutttttt
Stern has specifically changed the rules so refs aren’t “showed up” by players arguing. Now, Chandler was easily raked on his arm on his dunk and there should have been a foul call, especially considering how touchy they were calling the Knicks early on.
So he was understandably frustrated by such a home- noncall. But he made his feelings known and according to these stupid rules, the refs T’d him up. It’s incredibly hard to hold back emotions in these supremely competitive environments and its beyond ridiculous to have these zero-tolerance rules.
Pringles got caught the same way. However, the league also reviews all technicals and could very well reverse this latest one if they see the glaring foul which led to the very brief “outburst”.
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Feb 24, 2012 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
I really think we could've won that game
if we played Baron more than Lin. I’m not worried about Lin but tonight was just not his night at all. Baron went 0-7 but the offense seemed to run much better through him than Lin tonight. For all the talk about Lin, we shouldn’t forget we’ve got another incredible PG on the team also.
lol no way dude
baron was chucking up ill-advised 3s and looked like he didnt even know how to make a layup anymore.
We wouldve lost by 30 if he was the starting point guard. He needs way more time to get in basketball shape.
"Practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect."
Isnt MDA supposed to guide JLin the tougher opponents
I dont think MDA shouldve been so laid back. He needs JLin n the others to counter attack the traps- isnt that a coach’s job? Yes, the diff in talent n teamwork were evident, but he shouldve done more tactically.
by Singapore_fan on Feb 24, 2012 2:49 AM EST via iPhone app reply actions
he should at least attach puppet strings to him so he can control his every movement on the court!
I mean doesn’t every good coach do that?
sreh ladien e' ta janjia
by Lord Smackington on Feb 24, 2012 10:45 AM EST via Android app up reply actions 2 recs
ive watched basketball since i was in a diaper in the mid 80's
and i have never seen a team this fast. and by that i mean the speed at which they rotate defensivly and get out on the fast break. They know exactly where each other will be at all times after every play. even when you think you beat them backdoor joel anthony is swooping in for a block. The easy fast break dunks are built from a year + of harship and learning. Anyone wanting us to trade melo for whateverthehell should look at this team as the reason not to. we have the pieces in place to be every bit as good as this team and probably better. The center they lack we have. The point guard they lack we have. at this point it just takes game time, succes, as well as failure to mold into a championship team. we have the talent they have we just need to mold it and fine tune it. Im proud of the way we performed out there tonight. there is no reason we shouldnt win this division this year. championship may be a little out of the reach this year but we have a point guard with as far as im concerned unlimited potential in this system. after the break jeremey will come out and face defenses (cavs, celts) that are not close to the speed of MIA. These teams should be handled easily by young jeremy. Also the tenacity of which amare played with for 3/4 of this game goes to show you that he still has it. he dropped a few passes early but for every second of it he busted his ass like he wanted to win. if we can find a way to motivate him like this for 2/3 of the second half of the season he will be the usual monster we all expect.
I love NY. We may have lost but i am damn proud of the what we showed
YERPPPP
by turiafs beard on Feb 24, 2012 2:54 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
good point
I been thinking the same. I don’t care what statistics say, but this Heat team plays the best defense I have seen in recent memories if not the best I seen. They rotate so quickly and when they get a steal, or rebound or strip someone, you see Lebron and wade already down the court and ahead of tehe defenders. That has a lot to do with how quick they are, athletic and must really work hard on defense.
by RASHADI on Feb 24, 2012 3:22 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Chicago's 1995 team
Pippen-Rodman-Longley-Jordan-Harper. That team won 72 games without a real point guard or center, making it the best comparison to the Heat. The only team that even gave them problems were the Seattle Supersonics, which had two guys capable of defending Jordan one-on-one (Payton, McMillan), a dominant inside finisher (Shawn Kemp in his prime) and FIVE guys who could consistently shoot the 3 (Payton, McMillan, Hawkins, Schrempf and Perkins).
What the Sonics had that the Knicks don’t have? Shutdown defenders who can hit jumpers. Knicks main problem is that Novak and Shump are different players whereas the Sonics had multiple players who combined offense and defense in one package. What the Knicks have that the Sonics don’t have? Well if they can get out of their funk, three good inside scorers. There’s a reason why the Heat targeted Lin, and I doubt it was because of Linsanity. They knew that shutting down the PG was the key to stopping D’Antoni’s offense because once the ball gets inside, you can’t double-team all three post players.
Moral of the story is that I don’t think it’s possible to consistently crack the Heat’s defense if it’s given time to set up. They’re just too good. Having a HoF-caliber point guard like John Stockton or Gary Payton helps but not even they could beat the Bulls. And at this point we need to admit that Lin is, at least for now and the foreseeable future, merely very good. That’s nothing to complain about but he can’t crack this defense, especially when the forwards are still very creaky. Without a wing player who can score AND defend the key to beating the Heat is to play shutdown, trapping defense right back and beat them back down the court with fast breaks. You let that defense get set up and it’s going to take something special to crack it:
1) 2, maybe 3 HoF scorers in their prime. A rusty Melo, depressed Amar’e and green-as-grass Lin just isn’t going to cut it.
2) A dominating offensive center a la Wilt, Olajuwon, Shaq (in his prime) or Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. (Except my dad says lots of times Kareem didn’t even run down court. And that he didn’t really try. . . except during the playoffs.)
. . . Knicks don’t have either, and keep in mind neither were able to consistently beat the best defenses they faced. Against a dominating defense, sometimes scoring at will is just impossible. Only thing to do is bring in your own lockdown defense, perfect the fast break and make the game a test of will.
To quote your dad
Except my dad says lots of times Kareem didn’t even run down court. And that he didn’t really try. . . except during the playoffs.
Are you sure you didn’t just hear that from Kareem himself on Airplane?
Nah, you're thinking of Roger Murdoch.
He’s an airline pilot.
I think there are two big differences between that team and the Heat
1. Ron Harper was wayyyyyyy better than anyone playing PG for the heat
2. The Heat’s best players (Lebron/Wade) can’t shoot. That’s why I still question them in a tight game against a good defense. If you pack the lane and they start bricking shots then they will struggle to score.
I know this is besides the point you’re making in this post, the Knicks are not a great matchup for the Heat I agree. This just came to mind.
by BallerAttack on Feb 24, 2012 9:51 AM EST up reply actions
Except my dad says lots of times Kareem didn’t even run down court. And that he didn’t really try. . . except during the playoffs
Sorry, but I think your dad is mistaken on that one. Kareem was slower in the in the 80s but not out of laziness. Age caught up to Kareem and he was a lot slower than his younger self. Even though he was slower, he still held his own against the dominant centers who came out 10+ years afterwards.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/abdulka01.html
Kareem already put in 10+ years as a franchise level center before things really picked up between Bird’s Celtics & Magic’s Lakers. At the end of his career, he wasn’t able to run the floor like in his youth. He still held it down in the half court though.
Small ball against the HEAT
Try something less conventional against such an attacking defense. Davis, JR, Melo, Lin, n Chandler.
by Singapore_fan on Feb 24, 2012 2:58 AM EST via iPhone app reply actions
Oh and Nash's 11th start of his career
was his 3rd year in the league. he started 40 games that year and averaged 8 points and 5 assists in the 40 starts he had…….
YERPPPP
I'm reading some to these comments and I'm seriously wondering...
if people were watching the same game I was. Lin was consistently being trapped hard by the Heat and had a terrible game, but the Knicks and MDA didn’t do him no favors. It’s going to hard for any pg to play through such defenses. Playing Baron more is not going to fix the problem as he only appeared better because the Heat didn’t really give a shit about him and yet he still shot 0-7. What the Knicks should have done is bring up the wingman from the otherside to get ball out of Lin’s hand and attack from there. Melo, JR, or even Landry could have stepped out to relieve the pressure off Lin but nobody did anything. This is what happens when you over rely on one person to initiate the offense. MDA and the Knicks did not adjust at all. Lin had a bad game, and deserves some of the blame for the loss, but the MDA and Knicks definitely failed in their part as well. The only person I thought played well was JR and Novak, and thats only because they were making their outside shots. The offense on a whole was still not clicking.
I think a big part of keeping Lin in the game is to see how he adjusts to these new schemes.
Baron Davis is still working back into the shape. And even as Lin was struggling, the Knicks were keeping the game close.
This game showed how confident the Knicks are becoming with Lin. Pringles is allowing him to learn from his mistakes and it’s just going to take more than a few games to really get it. I bet come April, Jeremy Lin will come back with a far more comfortable poise than this one. He is a very smart player who definitely is able to make adjustments on the fly.
And some things need to be learned in the games rather than in practices or scrimmages.
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Feb 24, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
I can live with this loss
As much as it stinks to lose to those douches, make no mistake, they’re an insanely talented basketball team, and last night they were so fired up it was unreal.
Their quick start startled us, but D’Antoni’s early time out settled us into a rhythm and we got going, despite STAT and Lin’s turnovers.
Second half i think the back-to-back and the traavelling got to us, we gave us far too many Offensive bounds, which Miami capitlised on.
I’ve got no doubts we will bounce back from this defeat, strangely it may even help in the long run. Jeremy has had no difficulties learning, so he will learn from this and improve.
The division will be ours, as will a top 4 seed. I’m confident
Oh well
Miami has been by far the best team in the league. I’m glad D’Antoni kept Lin in the game, the team has to look at the long-term, and Lin getting used to intense defensive pressure can only be a good thing. He’ll learn, as will the rest of the team.
We have to realize that our 2 “stars”, the players that were supposed to be complimented by Tyson Chandler and vet’s min. payed guys or rookies while they stormed the league and took a top 4 seed haven’t been playing well at all. Carmelo’s either sat out or played injured, and Amar’e obviously has some problem that has nothing to do with his athleticism. Right now, the team is trying as hard as they can but they are a still a collection of individuals, not a team just yet. That will change in a week or two, since they have the all-star break and then the 5 or 6 day layoff between the Cleveland and Boston game. When this team gets it together…watch out.
New York Knicks = Sleeping Giants
Wanna check out an awesome blog? http://cokupit.com
D'antoni should try playing Lin and Baron at the same time in games like this
need more experimenting
It's tempting
There’s merit to the two-PG formation. With Lin and Baron on the court, the trap doesn’t work. The Heat would quickly adapt but then a weakside PG means that instead of praying Novak hits the 3 (which worked for a while but can’t be counted on), you can move the ball quickly back and forth. The problem with the pick-and-roll is that it’s often a quarter-court, two-player offense. The wing’s there mainly to keep the defense honest; it’s good for 15 points or so but you still try to get most of your points inside. A weakside PG means the defense can’t cheat strong-side with just one guy on the wing; all three post players can get involved in the offense. When the defense can no longer predict where the attack’s coming from, the inside game opens up.
Only problem is that this isn’t something you “experiment”; it would take serious practice time to implement — maybe an entire off-season. First off, both guards still need to hit long jumpers to prevent the D from cheating inside and Baron’s shooting is rusty as all hell. Second, the schemes would have to be sophisticated to make it unpredictable — again, the key here is to make the wing a triple threat, not just a kick-out option. Yet the post players can’t get confused with passes coming in from all directions or they’ll botch the opportunities. You’re trying to confuse the defense, not your own teammates.
I think D’Antoni might’ve tried a Baron-Lin lineup IF he had the time. But he didn’t. The simple high screen-and-roll is about all he can run with the offense right now. You throw out a two-PG lineup against the Heat without some serious reps and whatever passes that defense doesn’t pick off will go flying into the stands.
by dragonchild on Feb 24, 2012 9:31 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That was the best team in the league
well rested and focused on stopping JLin. We are getting everyone’s A game and even with 15 turnovers and Melo playing like shit we hung with them. I really love our team and think they have a chance every night against any team in the league.
Fire D'Umbphoney...not wise at the moment
As bad as the turnovers
by jeremy were, the shot selection is what irked me more. He became somewhat impatient, fearful of being blocked and at one point shot a running rainbow that nearly hit the jumbotron, and followed that up with a well defended runner that was totally bricked. The refs once again did us no favors. Several balls hit the backboard first that anthony blocked and werent called goal tends, and guys were getting hammered down low. Tyson also really hurt jeremy tonight, or at least didnt make his life ANY easier. This was the rare off game from him, and I dont think Tyson will be nearly as thrown off next time and will actually be the difference in the two teams,
Proud die-hard of the NFC West Champion San Francisco 49ers!
Whose got it better than us??? NOBODY!
by MetsKnicksRutgers on Feb 24, 2012 6:26 AM EST reply actions
No moral victories
but this wasn’t a bad loss. We beat probably 90% of the teams in the league if we play with that same intensity every night. The defense was solid for most of the game.
Lin is going to have bad games. What I don’t want to see from him anymore is him being scared on the court. He needs to get stronger with the ball. Other guards literally just taking the ball out of his hands just cant’ happen. He’s got this one under his belt. Hopefully, it’s out of his system and next time he’ll be mentally ready to handle this pressure.
With that said, we won’t face a team with that amount of speed and athleticism again until we play…ummmm Miami again. I think this team can play with just about every other team in the league right now.
Main thing is against a good D, the finisher is the PG's weapon
The key to a good PG-forward combo is that the defense KNOWS the PG will start with the ball. . . but they can’t cheat on the PG because a good one will find the open man.
Problem is that the Knicks are in a funk and everyone in the league knows it. The perimeter shooters are inconsistent, rusty or cold and like I said before, Melo and Amar’e are playing as “league average” forwards, not the guys who can get inside a defender’s head. Chandler is a very high-percentage shooter but his problem is getting open. So right now the book on Linsanity is to take away his inside move (the stop-and-go dribble) and jumper and pounce on the inevitable pass off the screen-and-roll. That’s only possible because Melo and Amar’e aren’t demanding the defensive attention the way they’ve been playing. Not to blame them, but them’s the facts. You need HoF performances to beat the Heat and Melo and Amar’e just aren’t there yet.
I maintain that teams don’t gang up on Linsanity because of the hype. They take the Knicks very seriously and may not have an answer for them if the Knicks start clicking, but for now the offense is pretty easy to figure out. Until Linsanity’s left and right arms (Amar’e and Melo) grow back, teams will basically attack him and dare the rest of the offense to pick up the slack — just like they haven’t been able to prior to Linsanity’s emergence. They’re going to keep doing that until single-covering Melo and Amar’e becomes an extremely stupid idea.
id much rather
Us take it than them blow it
Proud die-hard of the NFC West Champion San Francisco 49ers!
Whose got it better than us??? NOBODY!
by MetsKnicksRutgers on Feb 24, 2012 9:10 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
The officiating didn't do us any favors either
Phantom goaltend on Jeffries’ block into the backboard, Chandler’s dunk, some suspect charging calls. The Knicks also handed the Heat some easy points on inbounds plays and unforced turnovers on Lin and Amar’e.
I remember laughing before the game
The Heat players were saying they’d keep Jeremy to under 10 points. Looks like they managed to do that. Gotta give credit where credit is due.
New York Knicks = Sleeping Giants
Wanna check out an awesome blog? http://cokupit.com
J.Lin/Coach
The problem is not J.Lin learning from this last night.
Everybody stop thinking it is all up to him to win or lose the games.
I am saying it again and hope people watch the game and realize the problem is three reasons. The team sucks on the defensive front, coach needs to go and round pegs go into round holes.
D.Wade is a two guard and when he was watching J.Lin shutting him down we need a two guard that can shoot the ball. L.Fields is not a starting two guard but a backup three to Carmelo. Stoudemire/Anthony where outscored do to lack of defense by both Bosh/James. The coach has never been good in game situations of adjusting on the fly. 8 million per year to stay stubborn and thick headed. L.Fields cannot dribble the ball and is not a very defender at the two spot. He would be perfect at the backup three because of his cutting ability and moving without the ball. Defending three spot he will be able to hold them down better on the perimeter. The team defense can work if you have round pegs in round holes.
Facepalm.
The team sucks on the defensive front
The Knicks are somewhere between 5th and 9th in defensive efficiency this season (depending on whose numbers you use). Everyone besides you seems to know they’re a good defensive team this year.
by Joamiq on Feb 24, 2012 9:50 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Look At The Record
W-L Record. Pease did you see J.R. Smith watching LeBron. A talented scoring two guard watching Lebron? Then in the second half he was tired and Wade ate him up.
If they are a good defensive team as your phony stats say. Then the score should have been 88 to 87.
Just look at the record. That is the stat that counts. The coach cost us at kleast five loses with his dumb moves of putting players out there in position to fail. Ask the quesstion do you think it makes sense for JR Smith to watch Lebron. Do you think that L.Fields should be watching D.Wade at the two? Do you think if we had a solid shooter at the starting two that D.Wade would have switched and watch J.Lin like he did at times?
This is the coaches fault.
Nothing you say makes any sense.
The Knicks’ record is mediocre because the offense has struggled, not the D. Anyone who has a vague familiarity with this team knows this.
It’s difficult to express just how insanely bad your logic is. The fact that they failed to hold a good team to “88-87” points in one game makes them a bad defensive team? By that reasoning, there has never been a good defensive team in the history of the league.
D’Antoni is experimenting with different lineups since Smith and Davis have only been around with a few games. Anyone with a brain can understand this.
JR Smith defending LeBron for a few possessions and Fields guarding Wade are NOT the reasons we lost. James scored 20 on 7/16 shooting. Wade scored 22 on 10-22 shooting. It’s not exactly like they went nuts on us. Did you even watch the game?
"The coach has never been good in game situations of adjusting on the fly."
I’m sorry but I disagree — not that D’Antoni can’t make adjustments, but that adjusments are easy to make in basketball at all. Any free-flowing formation sport needs players to have a good idea of where their teammates are, and that’s something established by repetition and feel. D’Antoni has to keep the offense simple because a lot of these guys just got off a bench, gurney or plane. Tell a guy to do something too differently in the middle of a game and the positioning breaks down — then you’ll see some REALLY sloppy play.
About the only adjustments I really see basketball coaches do is switch the best defender to the hot hand. The reason why the league puts a premium on creative individual play is that once the defense has figured your scheme out , any further success you glean from it comes from your players doing things they’re not ready for.
by dragonchild on Feb 24, 2012 9:52 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You try to sound wise and all-knowing
And yet you never write up anything other than used up cliches. Round pegs go into round holes? The hell does that mean? If you want to criticize something, then give actual solutions and ways to fix it. Making Landry the backup 3 “solves” nothing. It actually gives him less minutes on the floor, which is a bad thing since he’s been playing out of his mind the past few games.
The team does not suck on the defensive end. They have actually been a very good defensive team this year, top 10 actually. Landry Fields has been killing it at the 2 spot. Do you actually watch the games or just write up stuff you see in the box score? One game is not indicative of what the team will look like going forward, especially with something like 10 days to practice and get the chemistry issues sorted out. You know, the team that has barely played together and is finally becoming a force. Look toward the long term, and don’t form knee-jerk reactions after 48 goddamn minutes man.
And yes, I was totally expecting you to post after a win. It’s funny that some posters start saying “I told you so” after the Knicks win. I’ll start doing the same after games like the ones against Atlanta or Dallas.
New York Knicks = Sleeping Giants
Wanna check out an awesome blog? http://cokupit.com
Whoops
It’s funny that some posters start saying “I told you so” after a Knicks loss*
New York Knicks = Sleeping Giants
Wanna check out an awesome blog? http://cokupit.com
Lineup
Lineup that works even with our Bullshit coach.
1st Unit:
PG/J.Lin SG/I.Shumpert SF/C.Anthony PF/A.Stoudemire C/T.Chandler
2nd Unit:
PG/B.Davis SG/J.R.Smith SF/L.Fields PF/J.Jeffries-S.Novak C/?
Hey
Please explain why you think he’s a bullshit coach. I’d love to hear your reasoning. First I’ll give my reasons as to why I think he’s a great coach:
He has an offensive system, but it’s not “gimmicky” nor is it “doomed for failure”. It’s simply a loose system – which means, that the player use their basketball knowledge to make the best decisions on the court. Sure, they practice pick and rolls, spacing and screens during practice, but ultimately, the players make the decisions on the court. A by-product of this is then a lack of chemistry and cohesiveness, especially on the offensive end, when new players come into the team. They don’t know each other’s tendencies, nor are they acclimated to playing together and playing as part of a unit.
BUT, once a team plays together long enough, those teams become dangerous. They are free to do as they see fit, as long as they’re playing as part of the basic gameplan that D’Antoni lays out before the game. That can include an added emphasis on a PnR with Lin and Chandler, or kickouts to open shooters. But it’s ultimately up to the players, which means that the most important part of a D’Antoni system is a PG and chemistry. Much, much more important than for any other team.
Now see how almost everybody on the team has been injured, missed time or gotten traded here at some point during the season. It’s just now that the team will start to flourish under D’Antoni as he gives them a free reign to operate on the court. They’ve beaten playoff teams like the Lakers or Mavericks while their star offensive weapons have been injured or ineffective. This team is about to take the league by storm, but you and everybody else that wants D’Antoni fired doesn’t see the big picture. He’s thinking about the best long-term strategy towards success, while you just revel in placing blame after one game against the best team in the league. One that’s playing together for their 2nd season btw (the Knicks, as presently constructed, are playing like their 2nd game together). Chill out and watch it unfold.
New York Knicks = Sleeping Giants
Wanna check out an awesome blog? http://cokupit.com
Wrong Again
Great coach? The guy is not ever a the issue for failure? W-L’s and championships is all I am concern with for the Knicks. They cannot win this whole thing with this clown period.
Explain to yuo as you request.
L.Fields is not a two. A two guard needs to be first a sloid defender against most of the time the top scorer on the other team. Plus he is suppose to hit jump shot for a good dependable 17 to 22 a game. He is to stiff to play against two guards and cannot shoot the ball with the best of others at the two spot. More important he is to be able to handle the ball better to take presure off the point guard when the point guard is be double teamed. He cannot do this.
JR.Smith was watching Lebron yesterday at times. Can you believe this bullshit. Now he is a solid score from the two in the second unit.
S.Novak is a solid outside shooter however, he cannot play defense or rebound. The only time he should be out there is when the other team goes small.
D.Wade showed no respsect for L.Fields at the two and that is why he came over to bother J.Lin. Now if we had a two guard whom light it up. He would have to stay guarding the two and Chalmers would have to stay guarding Lin. This would have given Lin a better chance to perform and run the team as it should be.
Yes L.Fields is not a starter on this team because of our new depth. Carmelo is and he should come in to back Carmelo up to be fresh come the end of the game. Fields alos will defend better at the three along with being the wing scorer that he could be. Remember with him at the three and J.R.Smith at the two in the second unit you have a nice tandem of defense and scoring at these two positions. Now we don’t need to have always S.Novak come in behind Amare to score and play no defens or rebound. We an go with J.Jeffries to rebound and defend.
Get it. Round pegs in round holes.
Who said he's never the cause for failure?
But blaming him when we lose while lauding the players when we win is stupid. Explain why they can’t win the whole thing. Because I just argued that they can, and yet all you can say is that he’s a clown and that W-L’s are all that concern you.
That Landry thing is debatable, and you bring up some good points. But having him back up Carmelo would mean he doesn’t play more than 15 minutes a night, which wouldn’t be a good decision since he’s been playing great. And if you look at the game tape, whenever Lin is getting shut down, Landry is more than capable of distributing for a little while. He does almost everything, aside from perimeter shooting, well.
So yes, this team needs more outside shooting, and yes, Landry does not bring that to the table, but having Landry play and Novak back up Carmelo would be about as efficient as moving J.R to the starting 2 spot (you know, with the whole “he hasn’t practiced at all with the team”) and having Landry play the 3.
And by the way, you mention earlier that Shumpert should be the starting 2. How does that help the shooting?
New York Knicks = Sleeping Giants
Wanna check out an awesome blog? http://cokupit.com
dizzy will bang his square peg into your round hole
until the cows jump over a moon made of pigs that fly.
your best bet is to just be like: yo, dizeazeitch, you’re the only one that doesn’t know how annoying and dumb you are. its funny how you don’t shut up, or listen, or explain anything you think.
/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \
"dizzy will bang his square peg in your round hole"
Ummm…are we still talking about basketball here…lol.
Damn he got you to write a lot.
In Donnie we trust.
by $100M Contract on Feb 24, 2012 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
Who, Dizzy?
Though I’d at least try to explain another point of view and see if he can actually back his O.J Mayo talk up.
New York Knicks = Sleeping Giants
Wanna check out an awesome blog? http://cokupit.com
Stingy d
Well just look at the coaching record of W-L’s. Maybe you really don’t know the meaning of dumb.
I love the square peg into your round hole. Are you talking about your ear?
dizeazez
well i just looked at the coaching record of W-L’s. Maybe you really don’t know the meaning of dumb.
i love the square peg into your round hole. are you talking about your ear?
/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \
No No No!
I am talking about NBA Championships for the Knickerbockers.
D’Antoni and all his NBA Championships time is up in NYC.
If you are a true Knickerbocker fan you would agree. However, I believe you are a Timberwolves fan and will not admit it.
Yes yes yes!
i am talking about nba championships for the knickerbockers. d’antoni and all his nba championships time is now in nyc.
if you are a true knickerbocker fan you would agree. however, you are fathead idiot.
/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \
You do realize that Landry played some 3 with Smith at the 2 last night, right?
No? Didn’t notice? Not surprised.
You seem to completely fail to grasp the fact that the starters and the “2nd unit” are not completely separate entities. They’re not oil and water. This isn’t hockey where there are line changes. Subs are going to play with starters. There are going to be more than two lineups out there. And starting the game doesn’t mean that you’ll finish it, or even play more minutes than bench guys.
L.Fields
Yes as a backup three he can score from the wing, defend better on bigger size players and keep the flow of the second unit going by moving without the ball. I will say it over and over again, at the two spot he is not quick enough to defend against two guards and he is not able to take pressure off J.Lin with handling the ball.
Get it?
i don't understand why you say i;m a timberwolves fan
why do you say that?
/// aighttho.com \/// twitter.com/aighttho \
If you listen to any of the WFAN sports radio shows...
…I always picture Dzeidzic as “Omar from Brooklyn” in my head. Which makes anything he says immensely more entertaining.
by The Raging Platypus on Feb 24, 2012 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
I R Dziedzic Realty
We sell you home with much vodka and assraping
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
To be honest
I’d be fine with facing Chicago in the 1st round. Obviously, going up against Orlando or Atlanta would be much better, but Chicago is a team I think we can handle, especially taking into account the fact that we’re only starting to come together. But yeah, Miami scares the shit out of me.
New York Knicks = Sleeping Giants
Wanna check out an awesome blog? http://cokupit.com
i was thinking the same thing
I’d like the 3,6 or 7 seed – assuming Miami is the 1 seed. It’d be nice to avoid playing miami for as long as possible.
by Pretty Tony on Feb 24, 2012 10:03 AM EST up reply actions
I'm I crazy for wanting Miami?
I like the idea of facing Miami in the first round in another lockout shortened season and stealing the series. Despite last night’s loss I think we can do it.
In Donnie we trust.
by $100M Contract on Feb 24, 2012 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
High risk/high reward
If the team starts gaining steam before the playoffs, starts clicking while the media focuses on Miami and OKC rather than our chemistry, then yeah, I’d be kind of psyched. But Miami just seems on a whole different level than the rest of the teams in the league. Us included. It’s like it’s a battle for 2nd best team now.
New York Knicks = Sleeping Giants
Wanna check out an awesome blog? http://cokupit.com
i know the heat kinda bullied us
but they didn’t scare me at all. we lost, and we deserved to lose. but thats pretty much all i’m taking away from this one. time to practice.
/// aighttho.com \\\/// twitter.com/aighttho \\\
Same here man.
I think that was as good as Miami can be last night, and we’re barely 3 games in with our guys + no Shumpert (whom I believe will be VERY important in the playoffs) and we were still in that game till the last 6 minutes.
In Donnie we trust.
by $100M Contract on Feb 24, 2012 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
It is abundantly clear to me that the Heat can control any game they choose to.
Credit them for knowing where to be and every understanding their roles. It seems obvious and all, but they are on the same page in understanding that LeBron, Wade and Biosh are gonna shoot the ball. Chalmers knows to get open. The Heat can just lock down any team they please. So credit them, especially in being a marked team themselves every night.
The Knicks did well to keep the game close in the 1st half even through a ton of turnovers. The 2nd half they could have played with more moxy, but the Heat just ran them through. I’m still encouraged by this team though and I am quikly becoming a fan of the Earl Baron backcourt on the 2nd team. Also JR Smith running with the starters is loking strong too. I can see his experience in that he seems to be very well aware on the court on both O and D.
Credit the Heat for putting the Knicks away (as they should right now). Dwyane Wade had some nice things to say immediately after the game too. He gave the Knicks a lot of credit and seemed to understand that this team will be much more dangerous at the end of the year. Dude was classy.
"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire
by Chris Child's Fist on Feb 24, 2012 12:37 PM EST reply actions
DWade is classy in interviews,
but since LeBron arrived on the court he seems douchey. Reminds me of the KG to Boston transformation of character.
In Donnie we trust.
by $100M Contract on Feb 24, 2012 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
In Seth We Trust
Great article, Seth. I agree last night the MIAMI HEAT were in Beast-Mode multiplied by Death Wishes divided by Insatiable Thirst: I haven’t seen a team play with this much defensive intensity since the Bad Boys of Detroit. So, you were point on when you say: “Heat are just playing championship level defense.”
I just want us all to remember 2 things about Mr. Lin. That was like his 13th game of significant minutes in NBA basketball, unless he got some games w/ Golden State last season. It’s obviously around that number as a starter. Second is that he doesn’t and shouldn’t have to be the one who wins the Knicks games every night. If he were better prepared for this scenario (that is to say in the future, if he learned from how they played him) he would have seen he left a lot of opportunities for his teammates to exploit the Heat’s focus on him. In a rematch the Heat will still likely be awesome defensively and extremely dangerous offensively, but I think Lin would manage the team better, likely without having to do too much.
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