Bulls 105, Knicks 102: "They play like this and we’re good."
by Seth on Feb 3, 2012 1:22 AM EST
in Recaps
Email
PrintTonight's game had all the early makings of a signature Knicks loss. They kept pace with the Bulls in the first quarter with some hot shooting from Landry Fields and inside punch from Amar'e Stoudemire, then collapsed in the second quarter and seemed to let the game slip away. The second unit came in missing shots and practically assisting Chicago baskets with their turnovers. Overall, the team coughed up ELEVEN turnovers in that period, allowed C.J. Watson to torch them the way Derrick Rose (more justifiably) had in the first quarter, and fell behind by 11 heading into halftime.
And then something seemed to turn in the second half. Suddenly, the Knicks moved the ball like pros and made nifty feeds to folks cutting inside. Carmelo Anthony (3-10 in the first half) began to pick his spots wisely and thrive from the right block. As a team, the Knicks began to force turnovers and chip away at the lead.
And that's the "this" alluded to by moose35 in the comment quoted above. Even without a point guard and even without a shred of help from their bench (six points, all from Toney Douglas), a Knicks squad that moves the ball quickly but carefully, hits some open shots, and plays halfway decent team defense is effective enough to compete with a good team. This one was a close game throughout the fourth, but the majesty of Rose and a few missed opportunities lost the game down the stretch.
Take the jump for some individual notes.
- I can probably just knock out the bench in one bullet point: Toney Douglas played terribly. He did a semi-passable job against Rose, but shot just 2-7, recorded zero assists, and committed some of the most egregious turnovers I've ever seen. At one point, he drove under the basket and attempted one of those hockey passes that goes behind the goal to a guy on the other side. Only that's illegal in basketball and it was just out of bounds and a turnover. Jared Jeffries did a good job trapping and helping on defense but brought none of his hilarious offensive contributions. Bill Walker did nothing and a brief experiment with Renaldo Balkman-- endearing as it was-- failed. There's the bench. Chicago had a 25-6 bench scoring edge and they were playing without two starters. That feels important.
- The above meant that no starter played less than 36 minutes, which isn't ideal for the first game of a back-to-back-to-back.
- For the first time all season, Amar'e Stoudemire had a pretty uniformly terrific game. We saw a couple missed jumpers that were a bit too far out and a bit too uncertain, but other than that, Amar'e just smoked Carlos Boozer. Said smoking occurred in a variety of ways: We actually saw Amar'e get some looks off the pick-and-roll (both slipping and actually setting the pick), we saw him sink a few routine elbow jumpers, and we saw him just blow by Boozer a couple of times, including this jaw-dropping turn of events:
That is not a thing I knew Amar'e could do. I'm not wearing a cap, so I'll just doff some of my hair. Wow. 11 rebounds and a couple of nice recovery blocks to go with those 34 points, too. Excellent game.
- Carmelo Anthony's night (26 points on 26 shots) wasn't quite as excellent, but it was a hell of a lot better than it looked to be at halftime. Melo started the game in his usual distributive mindset, but began to force passes and miss his jumpers as the first half progressed. He was just 3-10 at halftime. In the second half, he looked much sharper. He tossed one beautiful alley-oop to a trailing Tyson Chandler, made a few other spiffy passes, and finally capitalized on his isolation plays from the right block, just displacing the much smaller Ronnie Brewer to get good, close looks. The ball did get a bit sticky in the fourth quarter-- Melo got several baseline layups blocked when he probably could have dished off-- but 1. at least he was trying to get to the rim and 2. He made a terrific pass out of a double team on one of the game's crucial possessions (that led to an extra pass from Stoudemire and a Landry Fields finish).
- Fields had another pretty solid game, but was rather spotty despite playing 42 minutes. He drilled two threes from the left elbow in the first quarter as part of a personal eight-point run, then hardly scored again until the fourth quarter. On defense, Landry had an especially difficult time tailing Kyle Korver through screens and got burned for jumpers several times. And when Korver didn't connect, the ball often moved into the paint, where one of the Knick bigs had abandoned his post to try and help. It seemed like the majority of Chicago's baskets, particularly in the first half, resulted from breakdowns that emanated from Fields losing Korver or Iman Shumpert losing Rose.
- And Shump got pretty soundly dominated by Rose. He got caught on a ton of screens (when Joakim Noah's setting 'em, it might make sense to force your way over the top and try to sell a foul, because he's often committing one.) and let Rose get inside to tear shit apart pretty much whenever he wanted. Shump probably deserves some of the credit for Rose's tendency to settle for outside shots during stretches of the second half, but I wouldn't say he had much of an impact on that end. The good news was that he had a pretty nice offensive line of 10 points (5-9) and 8 assists, though some of both came from near-turnovers that somehow ended with the ball back in his hands. Overall, it was an okay game and about what we've come to expect from a rookie starting out of position.
- Tyson Chandler did his thing but was relatively quiet. It would have been great for him to get more attempts inside and get to the line some, but the Bulls crowded the paint pretty well and did so without fouling. Or at least without getting whistled for fouls.
- I know he's not the only one to do this, but when Reggie Miller talks about something like the bulls "adding a Rip Hamilton", it makes me want to vomit out of my ears. Rip Hamilton, as far as I know, is not a common noun.
- Oh, also everything else Reggie Miller says ever. I find it pretty incredible that Reggie Miller-- who says some of the most grating things I've ever heard in one of the most grating voices I've ever heard-- gets paid to speak into a microphone. This is akin to me getting paid lots of dollars to play basketball or, like, deliver babies or something. I am very bad at both of those things, you see. Well, to be fair, I've never actually tried the second one.
- Down three, Mike D'Antoni drew a play for Amar'e to cut to the top of the key off a screen, catch the ball, and either attempt a three up top or kick the ball to Melo on the wing. Amar'e found himself a good, open look up top, but missed it. Didn't bother me.
And that's pretty much all I've got. Let's see if New York can recreate any of the wonderful moments they had tonight against Boston tomorrow and New Jersey on Saturday. That'd be pretty good if they could do that.
143 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
OK, we're playing good now
2 games in a row. Maybe the corner is turned. I still want to see what Lin has got and I don’t want to see what DWTDD does not got anymore.
I hate losing more than I love winning -- Billy Beane
agreed
Though, having him come in to be a scorer instead of a facilitator is OK. Especially if it is at the expense of playing time for Bully
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
I guess
it’s just so damn nerve wracking watching him make shitty passes and hoisting up clankers.
I hate losing more than I love winning -- Billy Beane
again, agreed
but the bench could use him coming in and averaging 10+ ppg again, to go along with decent defense
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
Agree
Lin replaces Toney and Toney replaces Bully, I think the Knick win this game. SERIOUSLY.
Toney wastes possessions with regularity as a point guard.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
We play like we did against the Bulls on a regular basis
and we will be close to as good as expected
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
I don't think Lin's an option...
He’s aggressive which is good and plays heads up ball but his ball handling skills are pretty weak, I think even a decent 1st team or 2nd team not playing in garbage time would demolish him. I could be wrong though and TD has been beyond awful.
Thing is, as you kind of say
all 1st and 2nd teams are currently demolishing TD at PG, so why not try it?
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
This is true...
but I feel like while Lin may provide some better movement on offense it wouldn’t make up for his defense which I think would be way inferior to TD. We’ll only know if they try but I think if Rondo if going to beat TD on the defensive end he would be completely running free with Lin in there…
why do you think his D is so bad?
one-on-one, he looks pretty good. TD hasn’t even looked that good on D and is the worst PnR defender
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
I dunno
Carmelo doesn’t seem like the kind of guy who accepts these kinds of losses as moral victories the way how we’ve seen Eli Manning do it with that Green Bay loss. Hopefully D’Antoni, Amar’e, and everyone else can realize that these last two games have been really encouraging, and can get some positive, confident vibes going, because ball movement is aided by confidence, and we need ball movement. I think the Knicks can go 7-2 over their next 9 games if they just try to continue this momentum. Just keep Amar’e involved.
Definitely Agree
These last two games have actually been moral victories. The Knicks hung with the Bulls for four quarters and if not for a few costly turn overs, could have possibly pulled out the win. TD is becoming a major hindrance, since he’s only looking for his shot and not interested in anything else. Although I never played collegiate or professional basketball, but as a guard, I don’t understand how you can guard someone if you keep backing up. That is how TD guards his man, always backing up into the pick and then going under the pick instead of fighting over it. TD is also terrible in the pick and roll. He never looks for the person who is rolling off of the pick.
by D CLASSIC317 on Feb 3, 2012 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
Rondo's gonna have a nice game tonight
He needs to get Shumped!
by superturboultra on Feb 3, 2012 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
I do not believe in Moral victories in professional sports
you either win or you lose. This isn’t college ball where if North Carolina A&T plays Duke they can feel good about only losing by 3pts instead of 30. The point is the Knicks are supposed to be competitive with Chicago. That is why we traded half a team to get Carmelo, and paid all that money to sign Chandler. So we could compete with teams like Chicago and Miami. So the fact the Knicks were competitive doesn’t mean dog spit. They are supposed to be, frankly it was a complete loss. The Knicks were at home and Chicago was only the back end of a back to back. If anything those factors should have put the Knicks over the top. I understand you guys want to have hope because the team is playing better. And they have played better their last two games. But frankly they still did not get the job done last night. And those few costly turnovers are exactly the point. Good teams do not beat themselves and the Knicks are not a good team. hopefully they are beginning the process to get there but they are not there yet.
And the pessimist in me...
feels like after the weekend, we might be looking back at that game and saying it was the best chance we had for a win. Boston won’t be easy obviously and we might be exhausted by the time Saturday gets here (even playing the Nyets).
I came away impressed with our last two quarters.
Like REALLY impressed. We looked different tonight than when we’ve looked good in other games this year…We looked like a team and there was EFFORT! Did we maybe get over the hump tonight?
I’m gonna watch tomorrow’s game like a hawk.
In Donnie we trust.
What can we get for Melo; this team is done, if it plans on playing with this guy.
Melo’s ship has sailed!
Are you serious????
It’s obvious you are not a fan of Melo’s. Everyone has seen that Melo is trying to become more of a team player and getting his later when it presents itself. But it’s obvious that it is not good enough for you. Melo’s ship hasn’t sailed but yours most certainly has.
by D CLASSIC317 on Feb 3, 2012 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
Gilbert Arenas shot his way out of the league
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
by Rorschach44 on Feb 3, 2012 7:16 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I'm not totally against this
I have been wondering the same thing. Rumor has it the Agent 0 is in great shape and that he can help a team get over the hump. I’m not sure he is a true point guard, but most teams would have to play him honest because he is a more than decent shooter who can heat up very quickly.
by D CLASSIC317 on Feb 3, 2012 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
It'd be a great excuse to cut Bibby
Mike, we really hate to let you go, but we’ve found anybody else at all to replace you
+1
When people say this team has no point guards, what they mean is this team has 5 point guards and none of them are getting the job done. Seriously, 1/3 of this roster is PG’s! How does that happen??
by superturboultra on Feb 3, 2012 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
who you considering PG's?
Cause Iman and TD are not PG’s
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
People who are playing the position
Whether or not the SHOULD be PG’s, that’s what they’re doing.
by superturboultra on Feb 3, 2012 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
Namely
Bibby, Lin, TD, Shumpert, and Davis (who hasn’t played yet but we all know that’s where he’ll be)
by superturboultra on Feb 3, 2012 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
I think
this would be a good game to study tape on, obviously everything they did right, but more so everything that went wrong. Like the second quarter and random poor possession’s after that. There was a lot of good tonight, but this team ought to strive for perfection, and be honest about what went wrong on both ends of the court.
I didn’t understand why the TBS reporter gave the Knicks defense a D- so far this year?
I understand trapping Rose at the end of the game, but I didn’t understand leaving that kid open and alone on one side of the court after Melo would go help with the trap. We also seemed to be better at clogging the paint later in the game, why can’t we always do this?
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
They're just idiots.
Knicks defense doesn’t deserve a D-. It’s been an improving part of the Knicks and obviously they’re not noticing.
The offense was actually doing pretty well at some points, with Melo actually feeling it for awhile…It seems to me Melo doesn’t really play like Melo unless everyone around him does well on offense.
But then TD really killed my heart one play where he wanted to drive in for a layup or something instead of PASSING the ball to an open Tyson, whom waved his hands!!! Instead, he was playing an idiot and just dribbled straight out of bounce…
Who knows? But we’ve all seen how fond Toney is of driving behind the backboard, it’s one of his go-to moves when nothing else is happening.
by superturboultra on Feb 3, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
From what we've seen
I think Lin looks for pass first
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
I didn't care about the grades...
just that our offense was graded higher than our defense… which I think is totally wrong. Our offense has been awful rather often (whether because of Melo being out or whatever else), where our defense has been decent in stretches. If anything, those grades should have at least been reversed.
It just showed me that minimal research went into that… so I tried (unsuccessfully) to ignore it.
Knicks looked better on offense besides the turnovers in the third. Amare was attacking the rim whenever he had an opportunity and...
Chandler was getting it done inside in the third. Less threes, more balance on offense.
(Martin Landau) Bela Lugosi: How dare that a****** bring up Karloff? You think it takes talent to do Frankenstein? It's all makeup and grunting.
--From the movie Ed Wood
GET TO THE RIM HEAT (and SKY)! ATTACK THE PAINT!
He was open
It was a decent look, he just missed it. I would want him to take it again.
I hate losing more than I love winning -- Billy Beane
Jared Jeffries Shot Tracker
Jeffries was 0-4 tonight for 0 points. His FG% has now dropped below last year’s.
Fun Fact: Jeffries has now played in three career games that ended 105-102. He was scoreless in 2 of them.
Home of the Jared Jeffries Shot Tracker
by bluecheese999 on Feb 3, 2012 3:17 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Comment of the game!
Always a cool feeling.
After I heard Reggie Miller give the defense a D- grade (the offense got a C-. Huh?) and call Stat “Studdermire”, I gave up on the dude. Please, don’t speak into a microphone when the Knicks are playing. You were a great shooter and all, but just…no.
This was a pretty interesting game. The 2nd quarter slump can obviously be attributed to ball movement coming to a stop, but the other 3 quarters were quite fantastic. Offensively, a lot of players had a great game. Amar’e did the things that we haven’t seen since Game 1 against the Celtics, Carmelo tried to distribute and get to the rim, and Landry had quite a Landry-esque game. The spacing was better, they were communicating better, and there wasn’t much staring at Carmelo when he got into isolation as well (on the other hand though, I noticed Carmelo watching to see if anybody was cutting to the rim when he went iso. It wasn’t all “Yeah, I’m going to the rim, try and stop me”).
Defensively, it was decent. The guards still have trouble on screens, and switching is rampant. When the switch doesn’t happen, the ball-handler usually gets double teamed and the player setting the screen is wide open underneath the basket. It happened quite a few times last night. But, and I said this in the game threads, I LOVE the half-court trap thingy that Mike Woodson has drawn up. It even lead to a half-court violation and a couple of turnovers.
So bring on Boston. Like I said, if they play like this tonight, we’re good.
New York Knicks = Sleeping Giants
Wanna check out an awesome blog? http://cospeniazmi.blogspot.com
Maybe I'm an idiot
but I think fields had the best most efficient game on both sides of the ball.
Melo, well was still Melo, just healthier. Yeah he had some ball movement but he still took those shots you were like “WTF”, if they didn’t hit we would be seeing more trade threads on the fan post. I didn’t see a big change in his game.
Amare was amazing offensively, he looked bad defensively.
My Wife is a Patriot's fan...
"Giants rely on fumbles and stripping the ball. If the pats secure the ball, then the pats win, but if they fumble or let the ball get striped than the giants win. every game the giants play they always benefit from the other teams bonehead mistakes (fumbled or striped) not from thier skills. The giants are a dirty team, I can’t think of any othe team as dirty as the giants. They try to strip the ball as hard as they can because they know they can’t win a fair game." by EaglesNeedD on Jan 23, 2012 2:01 AM EST
FIelds played one of this best games of the year, but Kyle Korver can do just one thing, and Fields let him do it. And yeah, I know Novak was sitting the whole game and would have come in cold, but when you need a three pointer, why is he on the bench?
Proud owner of over 20,000 comments. (most of them in the wrong place) Oh yeah, and Buster Posey
You just explained it
The lowest percentage 3pt shot there is is one taken by a player who comes in cold and has sat the whole game. Essentially that shot has about a 12% chance of going in. The shot the Knicks did get was far greater percentage and was taken by a player who in this situation was more likely to make it.
that still makes him an effective decoy though at least. The Bulls have to respect his ability to hit three pointers, and perhaps it opens up an even better percentage three pointer for someone else.
Proud owner of over 20,000 comments. (most of them in the wrong place) Oh yeah, and Buster Posey
It makes him an ineffective decoy no one is running an extra defender at Steve Novak
Let’s stop overestimating the guys shooting ability. He is a career garbage time player, he is not Tom Chambers or Dirk. And why argue about it. The Shot Amare got was 1. Wide open and 2. one he has proven he could hit. It was a good look and if he gets it again he should shoot it.
Decoy or no decoy...
we got a good look out of the deal when the Bulls obviously knew we were looking for a 3. I’d take that shot in that situation every time.
I didn’t see too many WTF shots where he would chuck it from 20 ft while double teamed. I a lot of his missed in the second half came on drives to the basket where he was wrapped up. I don’t mind him doing that because usually those are good shots to take or there would be a foul call, assuming the refs care enough to give them.
Didn't he get blocked
like 4 times?
he still was inefficient.
My Wife is a Patriot's fan...
"Giants rely on fumbles and stripping the ball. If the pats secure the ball, then the pats win, but if they fumble or let the ball get striped than the giants win. every game the giants play they always benefit from the other teams bonehead mistakes (fumbled or striped) not from thier skills. The giants are a dirty team, I can’t think of any othe team as dirty as the giants. They try to strip the ball as hard as they can because they know they can’t win a fair game." by EaglesNeedD on Jan 23, 2012 2:01 AM EST
by Giantssincesix on Feb 3, 2012 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
I liked the game...
…but, i always had a feeling that we will loose at the end, so when we loose, we are not good. Trade time. And i would keep just Amar’e, and pair him with D12 and D-Will. Send Chandler and Melo to Orlando and sign D-Will in the summer. This team is goin’ nowhere with Chandler, Amar’e and Melo, and i hate being the Phoenix Suns, good but not even near to the top… Oh yes, and try to sign K-Mart, compared to Jeffries and Balkman, well, there’s no comparison. At the end, its all about the team, not personal favorites, like " i like Toney, he tries, i like Jeffries, he packed bags at the grocery store, i like Chandler, he’s all about team spirit, i like Melo, he is one of the best…" I dont want to be in a situation, like, ok, we got some (big) stars(Melo, Chandler, Amar’e), and thats it, they are gonna play no matter what, no trades, no upgrade, we are gonna love them, no matter what… I dont like that. Its all wrong. If its not working, you change things. If you are Knicks, and dont even come close to top 4 teams in the league but you like it, well, you are not Knicks, you are Nets…
Well
first this is not a team, and second either blow up the team or get blown up in 9 out of 10 games…
P.S. What team is this with bench players like Balkman, Jeffries, TD, Bibby…
P.S.2 I’ve read somewhere here the statistics of Amar’e with and without Chandler on the court, and the statistics say that Amar’e plays like Amar’e without Chandler near him, add to that last year’s Amar’e and current Amar’e and i think there is no doubt there.
I went to P.S. 33
It wasn’t supposed to be a great school, but they did teach me the difference between ‘loose’ and ‘lose’.
One is the opposite of ‘tight’ and one is the opposite of ‘win’.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
Now i see
that at school they’ve teached you a lot about the word loser, you know, the opposite of winner? Like, someone that is actually happy when lose… To bad the losers always try to defocus rather then participate…
Sorry man
did not mean to be a spelling / grammar Nazi. It’s just that I can’t think straight when someone spells ‘lose’ ‘loose’, seriously, it knocks me all out of wack. My bad, I got a little snarky.
In terms of participating, well, I don’t agree. The lack of a floor leader point guard out there is making everybody look bad. I really feel that replacing Toney with a real point guard and moving him off the ball will bring this shit into alignment pretty quick.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
NP man
it was just stupid type mistake, im so nervous coz we keep on losing, thats it. And about participating thing, i meant participating in discussions, and not defocusing about type mistakes, but i must admit it was cool remark :). Jokes and irony is all we have right now, we proud Knicks fans.
agreed this is not a team
A team requires 5 starters and at least 3 or 4 subs who can contribute about 12 to 15 ppg. Last night the bench provided a total of 6. This is the worst bench in the NBA. Add Jordan, Lin and Novak to your list and you have a collection of basically useless players, most of whom don’t even belong in the league
Yep
what more can i add, i feel the same, exactly the same. And when i say about trading some of the big contracts we have, i mean who’s gonna trade for Lin, Balkman, Novak, Jerome, Bibby, TD, Jeffries etc etc ? So the “big’s” must be included, they have failed so far and we are goin nowhere like this.
Send Chandler and Melo to Orlando and sign D-Will in the summer.
Let’s say you were to pull off this proposed trade with Orlando. Now you have Amar’e and Dwight. You have Dwight’s bird rights, so you could sign him to a max deal, but then in order to get Deron, he’d have to sign for a lot less than max to fit it under the salary cap. Something like $12 mill. I don’t think it’s a stretch to presume that it’s highly unlikely Deron would be cool with Amare and Dwight getting max money while he got something like $12 million. This is the same situation CP3 was going to be in with Amare and Melo getting max money.
Having said that, you might argue that Dolan could convince Dwight and Deron both to sign with the Knicks each for less than max money. But is Dolan really going to trade away Tyson Chandler and Melo on the hope he can convince Dwight and Deron to take less than max contracts? While at the same time, Deron and Dwight could sign with the Nets for more money the same summer. In addition, keep in mind, after all the chips Dolan put on the table to complete the Melo trade last year, he would have to swallow his pride about a year later to trade away the same guy (Melo) he fought tooth and nail to get.
All in all, just imo, your proposal is risky because it hinges upon trading away two very good players on the hope that two arguably better players will take less money to sign with your team, and that’s after conceding to the presumption that Orlando actually wants Chandler and Melo and that Dolan would be willing to trade away his prized possession (Melo) merely a year later.
2011-2012 season prediction: 22-44
And I'm fine with that. One of the original leaders of the "Dwight Howard, not Nono Hilario" movement.
I agree 100% of everything you've said
but, its clear that we have to do something, and do it now. First, Chandler is overoverover paid for what his truly worth is, i mean, he is 10/10 offensively handicaped center with zerozerozero sense of offense. And that bothers Amar’e a lot, he is left alone in the offense, closed down by 2 players constantly and one of those 2 is Chandlers coz no one cares about him. Imagine the offense with Amar’e and D12, which one would you double and which one will be left alone? And if u close both of them how much space would be open for clear shots? Second, i like Melo’s shooting, but thats it, he is not offering anything else nor ever will, he doesnt/dont wanna pass the ball, its all about him and his sticky greedy fingers, am i the only one that sees that Melo is way unhappy with this dramatic turn of events in the last 4 games where he is not allowed to take like 40 attempts per game? Its all fake on the court, he doesnt enjoy himself being forced to play collective basketball, he is not happy, is it possible no one have seen this? And im not sure how long will this work. The fact is that this pairing of “big” 3 in NY is not working, and the management will have to do something, pride or not. And if we have at least 1% chance of signing D12 for Chandler + ?, well, i say D12 all the way, on the court he is 5xChandlers on both ends.
Without Chandler
The Knicks don’t even have a chance at a last shot.
Listen, man, last year’s team would have lost the offensive rebound battle 15-5 and the game wouldn’t even be close.
With a point guard and a few less botched offensive possessions, this game was ours. And having Chandler has a lot to do with that.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
You are joking?????
There is no way Melo is being traded anytime soon, if ever. Lets look at it this way, there still hasn’t been enough practice time for this team to gel. Everybody thinks preseason doesn’t mean anything, but we are actually finding out that it does. I’m not bailing on this team and I never will. I will make my true assessment once we get a legitimate pg. Then let’s see how the offense runs.
by D CLASSIC317 on Feb 3, 2012 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
OK
Amar’e with/without Chandler on court
PPG 16.6/27.5 FG 36%/52% FTA 5.6/9.5 REB 8/8.2 I look it this way, and its the only way that counts. And tell me where we can find a legitimate pg with no cup space, or we shall trade TD, Fields, Balkman, Walker and Bibby for Nash and sign him for vet. min?
And my point is, we should cheer for close defeats? And no one seems to mention that the Bulls were playing without Deng and RIP and yet looked comfy all the way. It was cat and mouse game, we build and sweat to close in and when we finaly manage to, they make efortless 8-0 run and here we go again….
I HATE REGGIE MILLER
and the fact that TNT finds it amuzing to them to have the douchebasket work all our games on that channel pisses me off even more. I wish he would just go chuck cans into a paper bag from long distance at a grocery store.
by blackhova on Feb 3, 2012 7:25 AM EST via mobile reply actions
barkley is even worse
Knicks swept the Sixers early in his career and he STILL hasn’t gotten over it. at least Reggie Miller had the last laugh on us back in 2000, so i can respect the guy. these TNT buffoons are being controversial for the sake of being controversial. especially when it involves the Knicks. its as though they’re following some sort of script given by the producers.
I read somwhere Bark hates the Knicks
cause of the way the fans took Ewing for granted when he was here and also he feels the Knicks fo mistreated him at the end of his career when they traded him. He and Ewing were (are?) very close….he also doesn’t seem to like dantoni….
You just got Tysoned!!!!!!
did anyone else notice that every time the 24 second clock was going to expire on the Bulls offense, Harlan would yell “the clock is down to one!!” at the top of his lungs, almost as if he wanted the Bulls to hear him and shoot the ball? I didn’t hear that enthusiasm when the clock was running down on the Knicks.
Proud owner of over 20,000 comments. (most of them in the wrong place) Oh yeah, and Buster Posey
He has a personal beef with D'Antoni for two reasons
D’Antoni refused to hire him as an assistant coach back in 2005 when Barkley was given a chance to be a special instructor during training camp and showed up late for several practices and may have even been drunk at one. His second beef is that after that, he said D’Antoni’s style of ball will never win a championship, and D’Antoni supposedly replied “Who cares what Barkley thinks, and what the hell does he know about championships, he has never won one ever. Really like the man didn’t even win in high school. I won 3 state championships in high school, 5 championships as a player in Europe and two more as a coach in Europe. So in terms of actual winning I know more about it than he does.”
Man, really hope Mike D really said that about Barkley...
because that’s completely spot on. He’s an entertaining clown that like to hear the sound of his own voice, nothing more.
He's the worst...
By the end of the game I had to stop myself from throwing things at the screen every time that douchebag described a Derrick Rose layup like it should be framed and hung on the wall of a museum. He so obviously hates the Knicks with a passion. I wish he had jumped over the table Oakley walked by cause he would’ve gotten his skinny, obnoxious ass kicked.
read my post below!! he cursed the game!
Barkley is an ass too, but he herbed Lebron pretty good during the halftime show, so he gets some style points for that.
by total hermination on Feb 3, 2012 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
D Rose
he really has that floater down…..that sh&*t is crazy!!! Like how Melo made a consious effort to get Amare and Fields going early in the game…I thought they played well, just faced a better team….
You just got Tysoned!!!!!!
so what?
Toney Douglas has that same exact floater in his repertoire. The only slight difference is that when Toney shoots it, it doesn’t go in. Other than that, exactly the same!
Proud owner of over 20,000 comments. (most of them in the wrong place) Oh yeah, and Buster Posey
So can we swap them?
I mean Douglas and Rose. Maybe no one will notice?
by YIK on Feb 3, 2012 9:54 AM EST up reply actions
yeah
Rose’s all around game is just absolutely “cray”, as the kids say these days.
by total hermination on Feb 3, 2012 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
By the way
Carmelo’s last shot? He easily had two more steps to take. The ball hit the rim before the clock went off. Not his best…
The Orange Life is Just Peachy
@back2backnyy
that’s being really picky. He’s not looking at the clock, and there were two defenders just about ready to pounce on him. HIs options there were to shoot a wide open shot from 35 feet, or a heavily contested shot from 25 feet.
Proud owner of over 20,000 comments. (most of them in the wrong place) Oh yeah, and Buster Posey
TD
Is it me or is this guy the weakest link—-he is so hard to watch. Turn overs—BAD turnovers, all over the place last night and his defense is just terrible.
TD needs to be the off guard.
When Davis is here, he’ll be the PG with Shump the backup. TD should be the backup 2, and him playing off the ball is a good thing.
TD’s been a good player up to this year in his career, I can’t see that he’s gotten worse its just his role right now isn’t one that suits him.
I mean you just said his defense is terrible. Toney Douglas’ defense is NOT terrible, but he’s playing that way. There’s something that needs to get back to where it use to be with TD.
Last night, a comedian died in New York. Somebody knows why. Somebody knows
I agree that he’s not being utilized to the best of his abilities, but his confidence is shot as well. Right now he’s worthless to the team, even if they move him back to shooting guard permanently. It’s a real dilemma for MDA, because he can really use last year’s Toney Douglas, and he has to keep playing him to the detriment of the team hoping he finds himself.
Proud owner of over 20,000 comments. (most of them in the wrong place) Oh yeah, and Buster Posey
One down one more to go!
I heard Mike was delayed getting to his post game press conference last night because he was cleaning out his office. I wonder will Dolan let him on the team plane after he is fired tonight!
It doesn't matter if I do or not, D'Antoni does.
He made it clear the “posse” as he called it out for his head, who do you think is head that Posse up? Dolan that’s who. Also it appears Peter Vecsey does too, he has already started criticizing Woodson for his predictable defensive schemes. Vecsey may be a loon but he generally follows the rule that you do not criticize assistant coaches directly. You criticize them through the head coach, since he is the only one in most cases allowed to rebut you in the media. Vecsey took his shot at Woodson today, because he believes he will be the head coach very soon.
Overall this game proved to me...
that while we are flawed without a point guard we have the talent and heart to compete with the top teams in the league. And I don’t think we need Baron to come back and be Baron of 4 or 5 years ago, we just need him to play solid, smart basketball and distribute the ball well and we’ll be there! Now if he would only feel better and get his ass out there.
national TV - a blessing and a curse for TWC customers right now
Seriously, I don’t think I have it exact, but since the Melo trade, and including last years playoffs, I believe we are something like 2-9 in nationally televised games. This does not include NBA TV. Every time its a good team we play, which is also why everyone thinks we’re overrated. Anyone have the exact record going back to the beginning of last year?
Also, once I saw Reggie Miller with a headset on I knew we would lose. Anyone catch how many times he said “this is the first time Stoudemire has over 25 points all game” – replacing what should have been “season” with “game”. It was at least 5 times. That coupled with the other guy screaming “OHHHHH!!” after every Rose shot like a crazed Chicago homer really didn’t help our cause, or my health.
by total hermination on Feb 3, 2012 10:47 AM EST reply actions
Honestly though, I'm surprised Reggie Miller can even breathe with his head shoved that so far up Derrick Rose's rectum
by flossy on Feb 3, 2012 10:49 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
He doesn't need to breathe
He’s an amphibious lizard who is desperately in love with Spike Lee and can’t come to terms with it.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
For every time he came up big against the Knicks, there were two other times that he totally choked.
Obviously he does not need to breathe air.
by superturboultra on Feb 3, 2012 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
Reggie is still pissed that he is still considered the second best basketball player in his family
as evidenced by the fact that his sister is in the Hall of Fame and he isn’t.
One very important aspect of this game
Is that the Knicks won the offensive rebound battle. Chandler had 4, Amar’e 3, Jeffries 2, and one each for Shump, Melo, Bully and Toney.
In contrast, the Bulls only had 9 offensive rebounds. This is something that n-e-e-ever would have happened last year. We should think of that before we poo-poo the contributions of Tyson and Jeffries.
As a result of this advantage, and the turnovers being equal (the Knicks had a bad first half of turnovers but tightened it up in the second half) the Knicks were able to attempt more shots at the basket. So despite the fact that the Bulls shot 53% from the floor and the Knicks only shot 49% (actually still pretty good), the Knicks were within a basket at the end.
The Knicks also appear to have fouled the Bulls a lot . The Bulls attempted 29 foul shots to the Knicks’ 14.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
Never poo poo Tyson or Jefferies...
Tyson is obviously taking our defense to another level but Jefferies plays hard too (even if he tends to get a little overconfident every once in a while).
Another game, another time the Knicks might have won if they didn't play TD or Jeffries
They have no game. If Baron Davis was healthy and playing like last year, the Knicks would be .500 or better.
Agree on TD...
he was awful. He’s gotta play better or sit (but then who takes his place? Bibby?). Jefferies does what he does and plays hard, I got no problems with that.
As has been said...
it’s not a matter of him not playing… it’s a matter of him not playing out of position. He’s clearly not a pg.
This is true...
and hopefully getting him minutes at his natural position will calm him down and get him his shot back.
Or at least keep him from taking so many shots, and keep the ball in the hands of a (hypothetically) better passer.
by superturboultra on Feb 3, 2012 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
Disagree on Jeffries
Sure those jumpers were ugly, but a couple of those Amar’e second chance opps were off tips from Jeffires.
TD is the most frustrating player ever. The second quarter was awful. Amar’e was dominating and Shumpert was in a groove too and TD either jacked up shots or gave the ball to Jeffries and Balkman. To call TD a point guard is an insult to guys like Steve Nash and Chris Paul. It demeans the position.
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
Yeah
I mean I like TD. Maybe I shouldn’t rip him as it’s not his fault he’s in this position. You would think D’Antoni, who was a point guard and has had great point guard play as his signature, would recognize that TD umm…isn’t one. Literally anyone would be better.
GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!
Well, he was benched in favor of Shump, who is marginally better
I don’t honestly think Bibby or Lin would be any better.
Toney Doulgas SUCKS IT UP ONCE AGAIN
surprise!! no not really cause we all know that TD is done developing..he cant hit a jumper..clearly forgot that the baseline west of 7th ave is out of bounds…turns the ball over and claps his hands like it was a good thing
he needs to be benched, traded or sent back to the minors…at this point Dan D’antoni could run PG off the bench
''Why would I want to help them win a title? They're not doing anything for me. I'm at risk. I have a lot of risk here. I got my family to feed.'' -LS the REAL#8
its like i said to my friends.
scouting reports have caught up with toney, people know who he is and how to make him useless..which is exactly what he is now…coming in he was projected as a 12th man/fringe pro…and its starting to really show right now…he cant play anymore but we all know he will _…notice that the players ride the bench here get major minutes(Randolph, Mozzy) somewhere else and suceed and vice versa.
Blue And Orange Over Everything
Just to point out...
If you’re referring to Mr. Anthony Randolph… he was a healthy scratch for the T-Wolves a game or two ago. And Mozzy is getting about the same amount of minutes out in Denver as he was getting here.
Don’t go so hard on Toney… pg isn’t his thing period. He was quite serviceable last year when he knew his role. This year, he was thrust into an awkward position without a training camp. Put him back as an energy guy off the bench in a 2-guard role and he’ll be fine.
And Toney, if you’re reading this… some of us still believe in you, just DWTDD.
+1
I believe in Toney – he’s just being set up to fail right now, and it’s a damn shame.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
last time i saw ar he was playing pretty well though,
they have a good problem in minnesota they have depth at almost every position,
and ur right about mozz that was my mistake but this coach is hard headed….
im skeptic about td but i believe in the Team.
Blue And Orange Over Everything
Toney can do some things
He’s a willing defender, he’s pretty quick and can hit a shot.
What he cannot do, and will never be able to do is to be a ballsy, courageous floor leader/ball distributor.
If D’antoni is not careful, he’s going to ride this ‘Toney as point guard’ train right out of town. He is killing them out there. Anything would be better. Lin, Bibby, fuck, even play Landry at the point and it would be better.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
It's even better running the ball through Melo lately...
though it takes him out of the offense to a certain degree.
Unfortunately
Lin and Bibby would NOT be better, so D’Antoni’s riding the only train he has.
by superturboultra on Feb 3, 2012 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
Bibby is finished
Lin who knows, but can’t be worse than TD. If TD wasn’t a first round pick who played decently last year, he’d be riding the bench. Guys get about 3 years to play with the teams that draft them, unless they never play well ever.
Good point
Lottery picks get 3 years of sucking before they are out of rotations. Later first rounders get 1 year of sucking. 2nd rounders get one game to prove they can play. Undrafted guys probably never get a chance.
That’s the way it goes.
In Toney’s defense, I remember, when he was drafted they asked him if he was a point guard and he said “I’m a guard”. It’s not like Toney’s been going around insisting that he play point. I think he is an NBA player as an undersized shooting guard.
Get The Frickin' Rebound
I bet Lin could figure out a way to be worse than TD
I’m up for finding out, if only for morbid curiosity…
by superturboultra on Feb 3, 2012 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not that guy...
who always thinks the “backup QB” is the answer. However, how on earth do we know Lin cannot do any better when we’ve never gotten to see him play meaningful minutes with good players on the floor?
What we DO know is that TD is not getting the job done. Why do we know this? Because he gets the chance to prove it each and every night.
Play Lin. If he continually fails, then he’s the equal of TD right now. If he does any degree better than total failure, then it’s an improvement.
There are depths and there are depths
I have no problem with seeing Lin play along with and against starters. If anything, maybe he shakes the other team off their defensive game plan. As someone else in this thread has mentioned, opposing defenses have TD pegged.
The ideal situation would be for Toney to figure it out already, so he can back up Baron Davis who would be completely healthy. Unfortunately that might not be a universe that we live in…
by superturboultra on Feb 3, 2012 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
I'm a D'Antoni supporter
But if we’d lost the Bulls game after D’Antoni had put in Jeremy fuckin’ Lin down the stretch I’d have called for his head. That is a total desperation move in a game that was very close. Toney Douglas needs to get his shit together—he has been a capable spot starter and reliable bench player in the past.
You do understand that coaches see these guys everyday in games
workouts and practices and if you haven’t seen Lin on the floor for meaningful minutes with good players there may be a reason for that, like I don’t know, maybe he doesn’t belong on the floor with good players.
Replacing a player who is playing like a scrub, with an actual scrub is not the answer. Folks you might have to accept that our bench is garbage and instead of arguing about who should play instead of whom, we should probably consider that our best alternative is to play as little of our bench as we can possibly get away with in games. Frankly this is the adjustment D’Antoni needs to make. Because I have not seen one bench player this season who is justified in getting consistent minutes. You guys want to debate Lin and TD, frankly they both suck. I have argued with guys about Novak, frankly he sucks. Walker, Jeffries, Balkman? D’Antoni has to hold his nose to play any of those guys right now. On paper and on the court, the Knicks have the worst bench in the NBA. They are last in points, rebounds, and assists. They shoot the lowest percentage and have the most turnovers of any group of bench players in the league. Walker, Balkman, Jeffries, and TD did absolutely nothing to justify their playing time last night, except for the fact that the starters needed to come out of the game sometime.
These guys have been playing pretty much steady minutes and that is one of Mike’s biggest failing this season. Mike what the hell is the point of saving Amare’s Knees, or Melo’s ankle or Chandler’s anything if someone else is coaching the team next week. You need wins to keep your job pal and if you are too stupid to see that your bench players help the other team win games far more often than they help you then you deserve to get Fired! These guys get 3 mins in the first half! If they don’t show something in those three mins they as a group need to be chained to the bench. You need to have the courage to go to your starters at half time and say,“you guys are gonna have to go the rest of the way. If you get tired then I will call a time out. But we can’t trust these other guys boys they are killing us.”
The bench doesn't stink as much as their numbers seem
First of all, D’Antoni gives the bench few and erratic few minutes. Second of all, they hardly get the ball since Melo is the one in control and you know he wants to shoot.
And sure Lin and the rest of the bench isn’t really starting material, and maybe wouldn’t play at all on some contenders, but the fact is that the Knicks starters at guard aren’t good either. D’Antoni needs to figure out better rotations.
Furthermore, D’Antoni wouldn’t be the first coach to stick with a veteran he’s comfortable with instead of put in ANYONE else who would probably be better. There are tons of teams giving minutes to guys who used to have some ability but got hurt or lost confidence, or are young and there’s pressure from management to play them. I think D’Antoni is a pretty bad offender here, since he plays Jared Jeffries and TD way more than he should. Remember a few years ago when Malik Rose got minutes?
Obviously when they’re not hurt, Melo and Amar’e should be playing more. And any time one of them is out, the other one should definitely be in.
This team is taking too long to figure it out
We finally get a decent starting 5 and the bench blows the game (we fell behind cuz a dem). I really wonder if Renaldo Balkman and Toney Douglas got high before the game or something. They got subbed in at the wrong time and all of a sudden we’re down 13. I’m not a Lin fan but he really should’ve got some of TD’s minutes. And Tyson needs to get rewarded with more touches. And by the way Amare and Melo, you can’t go hunting in South Beach without a gun that shoots clutch shots. This loss hurt but at least it was watchable.
I will go to my grave believing that if the Knicks had picked up Earl Barron before the 2011 Playoffs, we would not have been swept by the Celtics.
good question on being high-
Balkman is a mystery—we all seem to agree that TD is lost. Jeffries is miserable—cant shoot and cant convert at all around the goal—he plays like he’s 5-10" with the ball in his hands.
I don’t disagree with Reggie’s assessment. I am so disappointed ..it’s like watching the Jets again.
Can we trade Mello back to Denver?
Amare was awesome
please be back STAT
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
Disappointing yet encouraging at the same time. #oxymorons
I actually thought Shump did an average job on Rose. Yes he let him in the paint a few times but he also had some great contests on jump shots and enough pressure to force him to take them. The problem is that floater (as Reggie Miller kept trying to think of a clever name for… it’s a fuckin floater!) is nearly impossible to guard.
And from what I noticed was how important Melo and Shump are to the offense. Idk if it’s due to a lack of bench or what, but when they were out in the 2nd quarter it just looked unwatchable. Douglas can’t make a play and at this point Lin deserves some of his minutes (although I understand not playing him last night because he can’t cover Rose- then again Toney can’t really either).
It was AWESOME to see STAT finally have a sick game. Bravo, hopefully it’s a sign of things to come. Also happy to see Landry continue his consistent scoring the last 10 or so games.
I still can’t tell if this loss hurts more than the other ones because it was so close against such a good team or if it feels good because we almost beat a good team…
LIN GETS TA SPIN!
I will go to my grave believing that if the Knicks had picked up Earl Barron before the 2011 Playoffs, we would not have been swept by the Celtics.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
NBA Playoffs Content Module
Related FanPosts on Posting and Toasting
Related FanShots on Posting and Toasting
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- David West hilariously denies each and every one of his young fans a high-five (VIDEO)
- Behind the Box Score, where the Miami Heat are moving on to the conference finals
- Kevin Durant is tired of hearing about the Spurs
- The 10-man rotation, starring your Indiana Pacers
- Blake Griffin highlights, ‘NBA Jam’-style (VIDEO)
