BURN OUT

by Jason Bee on Feb 7, 2012 10:13 AM EST

First a shout out to the NY Giants for bringing the Lombardi trophy home !!! Here's hoping I can sneak out to the parade for awhile today...

Now, while I'm glad and proud for Lin, who may of us on P&T believed should have been receiving playing time for months now, (yes MONTHS), he's also played 35 and 44 mins respectively in the last two games (averaging 40). That coupled with the fact dantoni is gonna "ride him like Secretariat" (funny comment btw) kinda concerns me that he may burn this kid out. He looked noticeably tired in the 2nd half, but while the kid stuck it out, it can't be ignored. Here's hoping Baron comes "back" soon or that TD turns it around and can give quality PG mins of the bench. The past two competent PG's that the Knicks had had noticable declines in performace during their years running the show, and they both played huge minutes at PG. Just to break down the minutes played vs. performance, I used the All Star break as a comparison for Duhan. Since Felton wasn't here that long I used the stretch we lost 6 games (8 of 11) for comparison purposes. Just to provide an example (numbers rounded):

Duhan: avg 36 mins for the 2008 - 2009 year

12.5 points and 8 assists in 51 games b4 All Star break; 8.5 points and 5.8 assits in 28 games after All Star break. He avg 39 mins a game b4 AS break; 33 mins per game after AS break.

Felton: avg 38 mins in 54 games 2010 - 2011

18 points and 9 assists in 38 games; 14 points and 8.5 assists in 16 games.

He avg 41 mins a game b4 AS break, 35 mins a game after AS break

Both players had a dip in production, largely due to the minutes logged which seemed to wear on them as the season went on, and at times looked sluggish on the floor. Felton also had an injury to attribute to his modest decline in play. I know dantoni used to have Wolverine running the show in Pho who could probably play 100 mins a night if he wanted, but he is not the norm!! Hopefully this will not be a major concern with Lin because we do currently have Shumpert and Bibby who could perhaps spell Lin for minutes at a time, but it doesn't look like dantoni is leaning that way as Bibby is buried on the bench and he would prefer to play Shumpert with Lin. I'm loving that Lin is playing so well, and finally getting his due since its been stated by players and coaches that he looked great in practice and in try-outs, but it's only been two games and ANYTHING can happen. Lin has gone from 0 mins a game to 40, this is can be concerning, but you gotta be excited about his play and energy he has brought to the team thus far..

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Yeah

Gotta avoid running him ragged, although (and you kind of acknowledged this) Lin himself asked to stay in the game when D’Antoni tried to pull him.

The good news is that, even if Lin starts every game the rest of the way (wouldn’t that be something!), that’d be just 40 more games (plus 16 to sweep the playoffs).

Posting and Toasting: DWTDD.

by Seth on Feb 7, 2012 10:42 AM EST reply actions

probably a reality

I’m just not confident in Baron coming back to full strength, if at all!!

Sweeping playoffs would be GREAT!!!

You just got Tysoned!!!!!!

by Jason Bee on Feb 7, 2012 10:48 AM EST up reply actions

Yeah but

That would be a compressed 56 games.

Less than 35 is what we should aim for. A Shumpert-Toney backcourt for 13 minutes shouldn’t kill us.

That or get Rafer for Bibby. It shouldn’t be hard to find a game managing point guard for 10-15 minutes a game. (This does NOT mean Jonny Flynn)

GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!

by tanman5 on Feb 7, 2012 11:36 AM EST up reply actions

Yeah, they shouldn't have to play him more than 35 minutes a night.

Especially once Melo’s back

Posting and Toasting: DWTDD.

by Seth on Feb 7, 2012 12:02 PM EST up reply actions

Valid concerns

But the kid is 23 – they needed him a lot the last two games due to the rest of the team being dead tired in the third game of a back-back-back, and then being very shorthanded last night.

Hopefully they will be able to ease up on the minutes. In terms of Duhon and Felton’s decline, well I think teams start to react and watch film and take some things away and I think some of that is kind of inevitable. Felton was also battling a hand injury and I think that affected him quite a bit. Of course, the injuries can happen with overuse, but then they can happen without overuse too.

Here’s to hoping Baron can come back soon to give the kid a break. As for TD, I think he’s done as a point guard but I’m hoping Shump can give us 10-15 solid minutes there.

Get The Frickin' Rebound

by fuhry on Feb 7, 2012 11:00 AM EST reply actions

He is 23 and has zero mileage on him

And as you say jason you have been calling for him to get burn for months then you realize his legs are fresh. Mike don’t listen to the namby pamby’s. The minute you put TD or Bibby in for this kid and they screw the pooch they are all gonna say you are a bad coach. RUN THIS KID UNTIL HE DIES if you have to Mike. IT DOESN"T MATTER ABOUT KEEPING guys fresh when you are collecting unemployment. THEY WANT LIN TO REST, TELL THEM CALL DOLAN!

by Robert Curre on Feb 7, 2012 11:06 AM EST reply actions

Novak actually gave them quality production off the bench as well…

these guys shouldn’t be playing though right? Lin and Novak are not NBA caliber players….they are …what?….scrubs right?

You just got Tysoned!!!!!!

by Jason Bee on Feb 7, 2012 11:30 AM EST up reply actions

Yes they are Jason!

You act like these guys have been producing for ten years. They are playing well right now and they should be ridden. I however don’t seem to remember your talking when Novak got burn against Houstong and Miami and wet the bed? What happened. Novak had a good game. But lets not act like the dude has a proven track record of performing on a consistent basis. It is funny Last season you were a gallo is a scrub and shouldn’t be in the league let alone on the court guy. Yet even Steve Novak will tell you that Gallo is a better player than him. So what’s up! You blaseted D’Antoni for playing a scrub like Gallo, and you blast him for not playing a guy who basically is not as good as Gallo. you are funny.

by Robert Curre on Feb 7, 2012 11:35 AM EST up reply actions

nope wrong again

my gripe with gallo was inconsistency and dissapearing for strectches at a time…didnt say he was a scrub…

and AGAIN Rob my point with Novak and Lin was get them some consistent playing time….nothing else was working…you were getting shit production from the bench, why not play them….now dantoni finally is and it’s working out…didn’t say either guy was going to be a “star”…just questioned why they weren’t getting playing time….now they are tho and proving that given the chance, they can contribute to the team…contray to your beliefs that they couldn’t …

You just got Tysoned!!!!!!

by Jason Bee on Feb 7, 2012 11:43 AM EST up reply actions

Dude 44 minutes?

And 44 minutes as the point guard position. You are running every play, you’re taking a beating (particularly with Lin’s style), and you have to defend on the ball every possession (again, wears you down more with Lin’s style because he fights through EVERY pick).

Should we take him under 30 minutes? No. But it’s not unreasonable to expect 13 minutes of quality point guard play a game. 35 minutes is all I wnat from Lin.

And in fairness, once he gets used to these minutes it won’t be as big of an issue. But if there is no one on the roster who can at least prevent shit hitting the fan with Lin out, then we need to find someone who can.

GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!

by tanman5 on Feb 7, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions

He plays until he dies or we get someone better! LOL

by Robert Curre on Feb 7, 2012 11:39 AM EST up reply actions

LOL

GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!

by tanman5 on Feb 7, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs

But you want him to not succeed

so you can go back to calling him a D-leaguer :P. J/K, I know you want the Knicks to win.

2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!

by astromets on Feb 7, 2012 3:22 PM EST up reply actions

Its pretty exciting to see a kid like Jeremy Lin make the most of his minutes like this

It’s even more exciting when it leads to consecutive wins.

I remember thinking this kid had some skills when he got a little burn in Golden State last year too. Unfortunately, the one thing GS does have is young PGs. I believe Lin is a Golden State product too so being a hometown favorite made it kinda sad to see them get rid of him.

But before I drink this Linmonade (I didn’t), I have to temper my excitement after two games and pose a legit question:

Is Jeremy Lin’s success these last 2 games a product of how good he is or is it mre closely related to other teams have zero clue (and likely nearly zero scouting info) about what his game is about?
I mean, afterall, even D’Antoni admitted that they had almost no idea what he was capable of when they signed him. His workout was apparently terrific but we all understand that there is a massive difference between a workout and an actual game.

I’m not trying to rain on this excitement or anything. But this kid is pretty good. I don’t think we expect him to put up 20ppg / 8apg or anything, but it does seem like he can keep everyone involved on offense. But what happens when the NBA adjusts to him??

"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire

by Chris Child's Fist on Feb 7, 2012 11:36 AM EST reply actions

True

teams will adjust and he won’t be getting 25+ points and 8+ assist everynight, especially w/ AMare and Melo back..but he is a capable PG and a floor general, something they have lacked all year…and if he continues to run the floor with the vision he has shown and continues to at least get in the lane…I’ll take that for now.

You just got Tysoned!!!!!!

by Jason Bee on Feb 7, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions

Yep, I'll be plenty pleased if the kid can consistently control his dribble and get the ball to open guys

"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire

by Chris Child's Fist on Feb 7, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions

This

Is obviously the million dollar question. I believe it’s a little of both.

Let’s be honest: While Lin is certainly talented, there are maybe 4 or 5 guys in the NBA who can put up those kind of numbers every night. It’s not a knock on him to suggest that he will come back to earth a little bit. Anyone would.

And defenses will start to figure him out a little bit more. But to what extent?

I don’t think Lin has a really unconventional style or anything. So while they may not be used to his style, it’s not like his style is a huge departure from the norm. He’s a strong point guard with a quick first step who keeps his head up and his dribble and gets below the foul line on the pick n roll. This is certainly a replicable strategy for success, particularly with a healthy Melo/Amar’e.

My prediction is that as more tape comes out on him and the Thibodeaus and Rivers of the NBA get to scheme for him, he won’t be AS effective. That said, I expect him to still be deadly with Amar’e/Chandler off pick n roll and I think he will create open jump shots for Melo.

And if you center your game plan around Lin, you’re ignoring the elephant in the room (GET IT? CUZ MELO’S FAT HAHAHAHAHA). So it still takes a lot of pressure off Melo and Stat.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect 14 and 8 from Lin at equilibrium.

GO CUSE, BLUE, AND EAGLES!

by tanman5 on Feb 7, 2012 11:48 AM EST up reply actions

I think if he was to get 14 & 8

along w/ Melo and Amare and Tyson…we would be contenders!

You just got Tysoned!!!!!!

by Jason Bee on Feb 7, 2012 11:56 AM EST up reply actions

Yeah, most def

"Madison Square Garden is the ultimate basketball stage. That's where I belong. That's where I live. That's the home of the New York Knicks." - Amar'e Stoudemire

by Chris Child's Fist on Feb 7, 2012 1:44 PM EST up reply actions

The thing about Lin.....

Lin has smarts combined with an increadible work ethic an most of all..a drive to succeed…I was a fan of his at Golden State probably because I go for the under dog, strays etc….could see all of the above but only saw him in short spurts in the NBA and wondered if he had the ability to bring up his skills to compete with the average gifted NBA players…..he has shown that he has and his “Kobi-esc” drive will continue….other teams may start to affect his stats but just the way he ran the team as a true point guard will be enough…congrads Knicks fans!….by the way dont count on Baron much.

by Only In Fairfax on Feb 7, 2012 12:26 PM EST up reply actions